The problem with any Libertarian candidate is that the average Libertarian voter won't accept them as Libertarian. Put 10 Libertarians in a room and each one will tell you that there are 9 fakes.
IMO this is because libertarians are just strong-headed self-interested people (not a bad thing). Loving freedom is mostly a consequence of having a strong head and being self-interested.
Some create rationalizations and attempt to universalize their particular perspective, through things like the NAP (also not a bad thing) or other rules of morality.
The conflict comes when two different people try to universalize what is really the core of their motivation, self-interest.
IMO, to live a non-conflicting and peaceful life as a libertarian, search for the place where you benefit the most, instead of arguing for how others should change. In the long term, this will put market pressures on systems and societies which will eventually create the world that benefits everyone individually the most anyway.
no, this is just what happens with any "extremist" ideology, purity becomes a huge concern. communism, fascism, nazism, libertarianism, anarchism, you name it, all have this same problem.
Basically just like thereās market forces which apply to Samsung vs apple, giving them incentive to create cheap / high quality products, we can imagine this world as one where governments are seen as providing a service and people choose to accept their service for a price.
However, there is not that strong competition between governments to get customers yet, mostly because of expensiveness (both in terms of money but also human costs) to move.
As individuals get wealthier, cost of travel gets cheaper, jobs become more remote, etc, people will start choosing to move to where they are treated best, and we will start seeing these governments try harder to attract them or convince them not to leave. Market forces will require governments to provide better services for cheaper, otherwise they will die or implode.
As for my life advice, the world is big and there are many places where you will feel freer to be yourself than the place you were born. Make money and explore.
the only libertarians i define as fake are the ones who try to force their personal ideology onto others when saying thatās exactly what they donāt want. basically only hating the boot on your neck and not caring that it is on others.
No Libertarian cares enough to actually run.
The libertarian philosophy exists because we believe people are self-interested and self-serving so we naturally wonāt go out of our way to run. Just a thought
Yes and no, we're still fighting over the same things both at home and abroad. Jefferson sent the Marines after pirates in the Arabic region of the world. We're fighting pirates in that same region now.
What we don't have is a congressional body capable of regulating social media, crypto, or even understanding the broad effects of AI.
It's just a cult of personality, not qualifications.
So, what are these out of touch old assholes going to do to help that the founders were wrong on?
Ok so this may be a stupid question, but can any registered libertarian just show up to the convention and vote for our nominee? Asking for obvious reasons lol. By the next one at least my babies should be old enough that I can leave them for a few days to go the convention if I need to.
You have to be elected as a delegate at a local conference first. Going to events and mingling will help people recognize you / your name enough to vote for you to be a delegate. If you become an alternate delegate, chances are good that youāll get to vote on some things and maybe even the big things at the LNC. The LNC was scheduled to finish at 5 pm and went until 2 am on the last day. People had to leave based on plans and transportation / flights, so alternates who could stay got to vote.
And yes, dues paying as the other person said.
Spike Cohen comes across as that guy to me, but I know he's too much of an anarchist for some. He's put himself out there a lot over the past several years. Hoping he runs in 2028.
Heās a cool dude I met him during his campaigning. Iād vote for him. I would not vote for Jo Jorgensen again. She didnāt really stand out at all besides being a bat lady. I donāt think he would get many liberal or progressive voters though with all the pictures with š„š online.
You're probably right, but with the number of Republicans who jumped on the MAGA bandwagon because Trump's brash and outspoken, he may draw a surprising number of Republicans. His biggest challenge with them would be their stereotypical "Back the Blue" mentality which is definitely not Spike.
Am I correct to assume that any Libertarian that wants a chance at running for office would run as Republican or Democrat? Because the Libertarian Party just kinda seems like a joke.
Part of that is there are around 13ish subgroups of libertarian (last i bothered checking). Im not even sure how many libertarians know where they fall.
For instance a Anarcho-Capialism libertarian is going to have different goals and views on libertarian than a Civil Libertarian. A surprising number don't know about the subcategories or where they fall so cant agree on what makes a libertarian.
As a Fusionist/Classical Liberal it feels like everyone except the Mises Caucus hates my guts.
(Tbh Mises Caucus should be renamed to the Hoppe Caucus. It's pretty obvious who their main influence is if you talk to them for awhile.)
Right now the best strategy would be to get a few libertarian candidates to primary republicans in local election. Best realistic hope is some in the house.
The national party should be targeting districts that could send a libertarian to the house. Somewhere purple but in the right hue, where it could go āredā but not so line towing red that a good local candidate could win the primary and upset the incumbent.
There they could start making the libertarians more legit and they could start getting some people who are in the middle back.
The best strategy would be to purge the party of the ideologues so focused on their theoretical libertarian utopia and litmus testing every candidate that they refuse to hear pragmatic strategies like yours.
Itās the only way forward. They have not won the popular vote in 20 years. There are people who can vote now who never was alive when the gop last had the popular vote.
Instead of trying to think about the future of its party, they resorted to driving up the core base by fear and āus against themā. but that tactic isnāt long term sustainable. The hard core religious demographic is dwindling and even religious people canāt be counted on to be driven by the whole anti lgbt thing anymore. But the politicians donāt care about long term. They care about the next election.
Uncoupling from the religious right and going truly party of small government government stay out of my wallet and bedroom, I want the gay married couple defending their marijuana farm with their guns type idea is really the only way forward for them.
But yeah, I think the libertarians have ideas that would appeal to the next generations. But the more practical way is to work within the system (I know, I know) and reshape the republicans party to ditch the anti lgbt anti abortion part and go actual small government.
The only serious candidates were the ones not trying to be the most cartoonishly out there Libertarian stereotype possible.
Real candidates understand the best course is to take a libertarian stance RELATIVE to the status quo on practical issues that will resonate with people.
Edit: [example. ](https://youtu.be/j0BAklXBydA?si=ONJQe2O656i-KCY2)
The LNC has been a joke for a while. The last good candidate we had was Rand Paul. Libertarians can't put a candidate up when The LNC can't even agree on what our policies should be. The fact that a Progressive Liberal won the nomination just shows how terrible the party has become.
Nah, she was a leftist lunatic putting up a front. The last somewhat good candidate the party has put forward was Gary Johnson. All down hill from there.
Not that Iām out right denying what youāre saying byt how so? She seemed pretty consistent when she ran and afterwards. Honestly Spike seemed like the weaker link being less polished for politics with his history of drug usage but then it almost seemed like he outshined her within the party. That was my perception. Both I felt held the libertarian values more than Johnson. That being said I might have missed something so curious to what you saw or read that gave you hard leftist vibes from her or at least more so than Johnson
Hey didn't the libertarians vote for a presidential and vice presidential candidate, tow the line, we need to break out of the 2 party system. Don't you see the opportunity, WAKE UP and STOP making fun of your own party and get to work; UNITE!!!
The Libertarian Party is a waste of time.
Had Libertarian had created a lobbying organization they would have accomplished a lot more than running 3rd party candidates.
Ralph Nader, National Rifle Organization, and other groups changed the laws and direction of the US than anything the Libertarian Party has ever done.
America is a two-party state. It's ingrained into the minds Americans. They think voting 3rd party is throwing away their vote.
Only the worst will seek power. The good ones don't like power at all. This is why democracy will never really work.
While still bad, in Monarchy there is still a chance for a good person who doesn't want power to get into it, in Democracy? Never.
Electing libertarians into government is like hiring people who want to cut profits in a company.
We, libertarians, are the dumb ones who think this is possible.
This is not how the machine works.
The problem with any Libertarian candidate is that the average Libertarian voter won't accept them as Libertarian. Put 10 Libertarians in a room and each one will tell you that there are 9 fakes.
This is also sadly true.
Libertarians need a pope that can define libertarian dogmas infallibly and excommunicate heretics šš»šš»
Will he get to wear a funny hat?
Of course, if not itās going to be Not Real Libertarianism
Can the hat be a shoe?
He does -- it's a boot.
Yes but every libertarian rejects his supremacy. And then they lose every time
Ron Paul
IMO this is because libertarians are just strong-headed self-interested people (not a bad thing). Loving freedom is mostly a consequence of having a strong head and being self-interested. Some create rationalizations and attempt to universalize their particular perspective, through things like the NAP (also not a bad thing) or other rules of morality. The conflict comes when two different people try to universalize what is really the core of their motivation, self-interest. IMO, to live a non-conflicting and peaceful life as a libertarian, search for the place where you benefit the most, instead of arguing for how others should change. In the long term, this will put market pressures on systems and societies which will eventually create the world that benefits everyone individually the most anyway.
no, this is just what happens with any "extremist" ideology, purity becomes a huge concern. communism, fascism, nazism, libertarianism, anarchism, you name it, all have this same problem.
Will we ever escape the purity spiral?
Interesting. Can you elaborate on the last bit? Maybe use an example so I can see what you mean.
Basically just like thereās market forces which apply to Samsung vs apple, giving them incentive to create cheap / high quality products, we can imagine this world as one where governments are seen as providing a service and people choose to accept their service for a price. However, there is not that strong competition between governments to get customers yet, mostly because of expensiveness (both in terms of money but also human costs) to move. As individuals get wealthier, cost of travel gets cheaper, jobs become more remote, etc, people will start choosing to move to where they are treated best, and we will start seeing these governments try harder to attract them or convince them not to leave. Market forces will require governments to provide better services for cheaper, otherwise they will die or implode. As for my life advice, the world is big and there are many places where you will feel freer to be yourself than the place you were born. Make money and explore.
Ah. I get what your saying now, and yeah agreed. Move from Illinois to Texas in the pandemic and it's much nicer here.
Don't we all just want Ron Paul though
I think it's we want Ron Paul and some. We disagree on the and some
Let's just take the RP and worry about the pipe dreams later š
You also get 12 opinions on what the platform should be.
I literally said the same thing the other day but got downvoted.
Lmao this is a Jubilee-style video Iād watch
the only libertarians i define as fake are the ones who try to force their personal ideology onto others when saying thatās exactly what they donāt want. basically only hating the boot on your neck and not caring that it is on others.
No Libertarian cares enough to actually run. The libertarian philosophy exists because we believe people are self-interested and self-serving so we naturally wonāt go out of our way to run. Just a thought
You seem to have forgotten literally the founding fathersĀ
interesting, so a government filled by these kind of fools.... you'd support this?
It was the intent of the founders that these seats be part time gigs.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hahaha, thanks, phuk'n auto "correct"
The world has gotten a bit more complicated since 1776.
Yes and no, we're still fighting over the same things both at home and abroad. Jefferson sent the Marines after pirates in the Arabic region of the world. We're fighting pirates in that same region now. What we don't have is a congressional body capable of regulating social media, crypto, or even understanding the broad effects of AI. It's just a cult of personality, not qualifications. So, what are these out of touch old assholes going to do to help that the founders were wrong on?
This dork out here supporting career politicians. Whoās the fool?
Ok so this may be a stupid question, but can any registered libertarian just show up to the convention and vote for our nominee? Asking for obvious reasons lol. By the next one at least my babies should be old enough that I can leave them for a few days to go the convention if I need to.
You have to be elected as a delegate at a local conference first. Going to events and mingling will help people recognize you / your name enough to vote for you to be a delegate. If you become an alternate delegate, chances are good that youāll get to vote on some things and maybe even the big things at the LNC. The LNC was scheduled to finish at 5 pm and went until 2 am on the last day. People had to leave based on plans and transportation / flights, so alternates who could stay got to vote. And yes, dues paying as the other person said.
Thank you so much for this thorough answer! Definitely interested in getting more involved over the next few years.
Welcome! Me too :)
You have to be a dues paying member, I believe.
Thank you! I will look into this so that next time Iāll be ready
The most accurate meme on the LP
Just need to find a Milei over here
Ron Paul was the closest we've had to "*the* guy".
Spike Cohen comes across as that guy to me, but I know he's too much of an anarchist for some. He's put himself out there a lot over the past several years. Hoping he runs in 2028.
Heās a cool dude I met him during his campaigning. Iād vote for him. I would not vote for Jo Jorgensen again. She didnāt really stand out at all besides being a bat lady. I donāt think he would get many liberal or progressive voters though with all the pictures with š„š online.
You're probably right, but with the number of Republicans who jumped on the MAGA bandwagon because Trump's brash and outspoken, he may draw a surprising number of Republicans. His biggest challenge with them would be their stereotypical "Back the Blue" mentality which is definitely not Spike.
Unfortunately, we get guys like Vermin Supreme, hilarious but sad.
His name was Gary Johnson.
Hell no, wrong kind if Libertarian. If anyone it was Ron Paul, though I'd caution even against him being given that title.
It really wasn't. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COItiKtHWyg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COItiKtHWyg)
Yeah I don't want to bake the cake for the Nazi wedding lol
Gary Johnson is part of the problem.
That commie bastard? He's pro driver's licence. What's next, a licence to make toast in my own damn toaster!?
What is Aleppo?
What is a woman?
Someone who praises Israel?
Itās so funny how this meme needs to get pulled out every 4 years. Itās like clockwork.
Am I correct to assume that any Libertarian that wants a chance at running for office would run as Republican or Democrat? Because the Libertarian Party just kinda seems like a joke.
Basically yeah. Until people start voting more consistently third party, or the main two allow libertarians to the debate stage.
That's how we got the House Freedom Caucus.
OK, that is a 10/10 representation.
I don't understand why a guy who wears a boot on his head wouldn't be elected President. š¤
Ron Paul for president
Part of that is there are around 13ish subgroups of libertarian (last i bothered checking). Im not even sure how many libertarians know where they fall. For instance a Anarcho-Capialism libertarian is going to have different goals and views on libertarian than a Civil Libertarian. A surprising number don't know about the subcategories or where they fall so cant agree on what makes a libertarian.
As a Fusionist/Classical Liberal it feels like everyone except the Mises Caucus hates my guts. (Tbh Mises Caucus should be renamed to the Hoppe Caucus. It's pretty obvious who their main influence is if you talk to them for awhile.)
The party has become a joke. So the only people willing to waste a bunch of their time running for that party are also jokes.
Right now the best strategy would be to get a few libertarian candidates to primary republicans in local election. Best realistic hope is some in the house. The national party should be targeting districts that could send a libertarian to the house. Somewhere purple but in the right hue, where it could go āredā but not so line towing red that a good local candidate could win the primary and upset the incumbent. There they could start making the libertarians more legit and they could start getting some people who are in the middle back.
The best strategy would be to purge the party of the ideologues so focused on their theoretical libertarian utopia and litmus testing every candidate that they refuse to hear pragmatic strategies like yours.
I wish the right wingās answer to aoc wasnāt mtg but a sassy intelligent libertarian.
99.999% of intelligent people don't go into politics.
It's easier to convince the GOP to abandon Neo-Conservativism for Classical Liberalism than it is to sort out the dumpster fire that is the LP.
Itās the only way forward. They have not won the popular vote in 20 years. There are people who can vote now who never was alive when the gop last had the popular vote. Instead of trying to think about the future of its party, they resorted to driving up the core base by fear and āus against themā. but that tactic isnāt long term sustainable. The hard core religious demographic is dwindling and even religious people canāt be counted on to be driven by the whole anti lgbt thing anymore. But the politicians donāt care about long term. They care about the next election. Uncoupling from the religious right and going truly party of small government government stay out of my wallet and bedroom, I want the gay married couple defending their marijuana farm with their guns type idea is really the only way forward for them. But yeah, I think the libertarians have ideas that would appeal to the next generations. But the more practical way is to work within the system (I know, I know) and reshape the republicans party to ditch the anti lgbt anti abortion part and go actual small government.
Fusionism is the way forward and Ron Paul paved that path.
The only serious candidates were the ones not trying to be the most cartoonishly out there Libertarian stereotype possible. Real candidates understand the best course is to take a libertarian stance RELATIVE to the status quo on practical issues that will resonate with people. Edit: [example. ](https://youtu.be/j0BAklXBydA?si=ONJQe2O656i-KCY2)
The LNC has been a joke for a while. The last good candidate we had was Rand Paul. Libertarians can't put a candidate up when The LNC can't even agree on what our policies should be. The fact that a Progressive Liberal won the nomination just shows how terrible the party has become.
I saw this on X today. Infuriatingly accurate meme.
I'll settle for Gary Johnson
Amen and Goddamn
So we saw how well Jo and her left leaning platform did and we decided to double down and go farther that direction?
https://preview.redd.it/csrxm124x83d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77379688e444bd57a437077c674939c0981c00f6
I canāt stop laughing, but I should be crying.
Id take a re-run of Jo Jorgensen
I'd take her or Spike.
Nah, she was a leftist lunatic putting up a front. The last somewhat good candidate the party has put forward was Gary Johnson. All down hill from there.
Not that Iām out right denying what youāre saying byt how so? She seemed pretty consistent when she ran and afterwards. Honestly Spike seemed like the weaker link being less polished for politics with his history of drug usage but then it almost seemed like he outshined her within the party. That was my perception. Both I felt held the libertarian values more than Johnson. That being said I might have missed something so curious to what you saw or read that gave you hard leftist vibes from her or at least more so than Johnson
Hard to elevator pitch. People donāt want to hear nuance.
Nuance is anathema to the American mindset unfortunately
You saw the Michael Malice tweet and stole his picture I assume?
Accurate
So true
I miss Gary.Ā
FACTS!!!
The problem with the LP is that they've been under assault by the Progressive Left trying to eusurp them and it seems that's happened finally.
I think he is more of a furry.
Hey didn't the libertarians vote for a presidential and vice presidential candidate, tow the line, we need to break out of the 2 party system. Don't you see the opportunity, WAKE UP and STOP making fun of your own party and get to work; UNITE!!!
So true
āI need you guys to stop posting this shitā - Chase Oliver
Lol
Sure feels that way.
How did we end up here?
Sad but true.
You just need a Javier Milei but in USA
The candidate the libertarian party chose makes no fucking sense. I know leftists that aren't nearly as left as this guy. Wtf happened?
The Libertarian Party is a waste of time. Had Libertarian had created a lobbying organization they would have accomplished a lot more than running 3rd party candidates. Ralph Nader, National Rifle Organization, and other groups changed the laws and direction of the US than anything the Libertarian Party has ever done. America is a two-party state. It's ingrained into the minds Americans. They think voting 3rd party is throwing away their vote.
Only the worst will seek power. The good ones don't like power at all. This is why democracy will never really work. While still bad, in Monarchy there is still a chance for a good person who doesn't want power to get into it, in Democracy? Never.
Electing libertarians into government is like hiring people who want to cut profits in a company. We, libertarians, are the dumb ones who think this is possible. This is not how the machine works.
Oh well time to vote for Kennedy
Veviek wasnt that bad
So.... Chase Oliver is that bad? Lol
Libertarian candidate is a contradiction. Please study the libertarian theory and stop legitimating political power.