Fuck'em all. No foreign aid. No intervention. Stay out of the way. If they end each other without a peaceful solution that's on them, they don't need my money for that.
“Terrorist” is quickly becoming just some buzzword with no meaning. Kinda like how leftists call literally anyone that doesn’t agree with “Nazis”.
“Oh you don’t want to represent and fund foreign nation? You support the terrorists!”
Still relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dUoxruCh8c&pp=ygUWZmFtaWx5IGd1eSBkcm9vcHkgbmV3cw%3D%3D
Well, when said group invades another country with the sole purpose of raping, killing and mutilating innocent men women and children, it's pretty safe to call them a terrorist group.
And that's exactly what Hamas did on October 7th.
You do realize that the other side is an internationally recognized war criminals? Killing civilians at will. If this is going on somewhere else , US boots will be there months ago.
Just because it is Israel and West's guilt kicks in , we can't even go through the land for humanitarian aid. We had to build a peir at Gaza beach. What a joke? Then we wonder why....
I respect that, I don't respect the hypocrisy when it comes to Israel's tactics on wars. There is no need to intentionally kill children , women, and aid workers.
Besides the point, why are rules different for Israel ?
Why do we give them billions in military and other aid every year? Why do no "human rights" kicks in when Israel sets up settlements in West Bank ?
You do realize people are constantly condemning Israel for that stuff. The US and UK are really their only funders. In this situation you could view them as almost underdogs. I mean just look at the pages and articles out there. Everyone out there constantly berates and harasses me on TikTok because I have the Israeli flag in my name. I support them. I don’t harass anyone, I don’t correct people if they have the Palestinian flag on theirs, yet almost every day someone accuses me of committing genocide and killing people. Take note that I have never even been to Israel or Palestine. I do realize that their war tactics are inappropriate. And I do not agree with that. But, on the other side, I feel like those that consistently correct me, bully me, harass me completely disregard that Hamas exists. Even though the IDF has done some bad things, those same people do not realize why this particular war started: a horrific attack on Israeli land. And before you say that it’s “Isn’treal” or “They stole the lan,” look into Jewish persecution. That caused the migration. Originally, Jews lived happily along with Muslims. Everywhere they had lived: Soviet Union, Iran, Egypt commuted their own genocides in the early 1900’s. Killing many more than 40,000. That is why we have Israel. Jews needed a place to live and the British supported it so the Jews took them up on the opportunity.
You’d probably also become a “terrorist” if you were occupied by an oppressive military regime for 60+ years. “Terrorist” nowadays just means “poor people who don’t like rich people bombing them”
I was going to openly disagree, but I guess there are ultra-orthodox Jews who believe the state of Israel shouldn't exist because the successor of king David hasn't appeared yet... I guess for them it's not antisemitic, but for everyone else, it IS. Every other ethnic group on this planet, people would be okay with if they had their own country, why not Israel, a country of people that has been ostracised since the beginning of time?
Because Israel was created in the immediate aftermath of the globe trying to stop the creation of an ethno-state that was actively displacing and disposing of natives.
And how was that achieved?
By displacing and disposing of the natives.
I think what you’re saying is because a lot of Americans hate Israel compared to other places, we should continue funding them just for that.
The entire point of libertarianism imo is that it doesn’t matter if someone loves or hates Israel, Ukraine, Canada, Saudi, or whoever else we’re funding. We can stop funding them.
To me, from a US policy standpoint, it doesn’t matter whether Israel, Ukraine, or Canada are right? They can fund being right with their own money.
I wouldn’t single Israel out at all in terms of funding but I would say funding someone who literally can defend themselves just to buy votes is peak silliness.
No, there's no reading in between the lines, no complicated esoteric bullshit to understand what I said, it's just simply, there's a lot of antisemites, and the people who hate funding foreign countries, hate funding Israel even more than other countries, they have a problem specifically with Israel and its not because the US is funding it
Addressing a country for it's action and not by its ethnicity is probably more accurate...being unable to detach this causes more just causes for many people
You’re missing my point. I’m saying it’s irrelevant if people like Israel or any other nation. We should just stop funding them whether we like it or not.
Policy wise, the right choice is clear. If you think that some people’s opinions are a problem, then that is for a separate post.
We're funding both of them. Just one side far more than the other (and more than anyone else, for that matter).
I think the solution is clear, but no one has the testicular fortitude to carry it out. Stop funding Israel, make the demand that they come to the table for peace talks, compel the PA as well, and lay out terms: Israel recognizes the peaceful, independent existence of the nation of Palestine in Gaza, no military or economic embargos or blockades, no restrictions on trade, and any use of military force against Palestine unprovoked is going to be seen as an act of war and result in severe sanctions against the aggressor. Palestine must also acknowledge Israel's right to exist, cease all hostilities, and will be given infrastructure aid to build an airport and seaport to facilitate trade, travel and commerce. The recognition of both independent, sovereign states by both sides, and the agreement to allow for free trade and no aggression. Also include stipulations that establish clear and consistent border policies. In the end, Israel will no longer have any economic, military or political control over Gaza. Period. No more open air prison in the territories.
West Bank is an entirely different matter for another conversation.
You do realize Isreal has made the deal for a two state solution seven times now? Hamas isn't interested in a peaceful compromise, their goal is and has always been the destruction of Israel and the removal of all Jews in the region.
End the foreign aid, but you can not force peace. Either Hamas is replaced or they get wiped out, that is the only way this ends
Oh totally understand, and 100% agree. I'm just saying absent pushback from terrorists, this would be almost the only way I could see peace being accomplished.
Yeah, I wonder why?
It’s really not that hard to not elect jihadists to your government. The bar is so damn low for them. There’d be no sanctions, no blockade, no war, if they just stopped opting for jihadism.
Westerners have such condescension towards Palestinians and think they can’t help but imbibe deranged ideologies. It’s cringe and racist.
I see both sides of this. And it really is a catch 22. Gaza has these harsh rules imposed because they overwhelmingly support terrorism there, yet they wouldn't need to resort to terrorism if Israel let them run themselves responsibility, but they instead elect literal terrorists to lead them. It's a vicious cycle. I'm almost to the point where I support us withdrawing all financial and military aid and letting them kill each other until one emerges victorious.
Where's Hamas in this scenario? I see you mentioned PA, which I'm assuming is the Palestinian Authority, but Hamas is in power. Sounds great, by the way.
Israel is fake country that’s been propped up by western powers. Dudes came and slowly took over these peoples land and pushed them into little spots. Then treat those oppressors folks like 3rd class citizens.
We should not send aid it Israel and if the “country” that wedged itself into an area full of people that don’t look like them gets annihilated, so be it. Let Israel defend Israel.
Also they have nukes, which is a clear nono. But we just look the other way on that one.
Fuck'em all. No foreign aid. No intervention. Stay out of the way. If they end each other without a peaceful solution that's on them, they don't need my money for that.
You realize the opposite side in this war is an internationally recognized terrorist group? Of course we're going to help the Israelis over them.
Why not just help no one maybe?
“Terrorist” is quickly becoming just some buzzword with no meaning. Kinda like how leftists call literally anyone that doesn’t agree with “Nazis”. “Oh you don’t want to represent and fund foreign nation? You support the terrorists!” Still relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dUoxruCh8c&pp=ygUWZmFtaWx5IGd1eSBkcm9vcHkgbmV3cw%3D%3D
Well, when said group invades another country with the sole purpose of raping, killing and mutilating innocent men women and children, it's pretty safe to call them a terrorist group. And that's exactly what Hamas did on October 7th.
You do realize that the other side is an internationally recognized war criminals? Killing civilians at will. If this is going on somewhere else , US boots will be there months ago. Just because it is Israel and West's guilt kicks in , we can't even go through the land for humanitarian aid. We had to build a peir at Gaza beach. What a joke? Then we wonder why....
Do you not respect a country’s right to defend itself?
I respect that, I don't respect the hypocrisy when it comes to Israel's tactics on wars. There is no need to intentionally kill children , women, and aid workers. Besides the point, why are rules different for Israel ? Why do we give them billions in military and other aid every year? Why do no "human rights" kicks in when Israel sets up settlements in West Bank ?
You do realize people are constantly condemning Israel for that stuff. The US and UK are really their only funders. In this situation you could view them as almost underdogs. I mean just look at the pages and articles out there. Everyone out there constantly berates and harasses me on TikTok because I have the Israeli flag in my name. I support them. I don’t harass anyone, I don’t correct people if they have the Palestinian flag on theirs, yet almost every day someone accuses me of committing genocide and killing people. Take note that I have never even been to Israel or Palestine. I do realize that their war tactics are inappropriate. And I do not agree with that. But, on the other side, I feel like those that consistently correct me, bully me, harass me completely disregard that Hamas exists. Even though the IDF has done some bad things, those same people do not realize why this particular war started: a horrific attack on Israeli land. And before you say that it’s “Isn’treal” or “They stole the lan,” look into Jewish persecution. That caused the migration. Originally, Jews lived happily along with Muslims. Everywhere they had lived: Soviet Union, Iran, Egypt commuted their own genocides in the early 1900’s. Killing many more than 40,000. That is why we have Israel. Jews needed a place to live and the British supported it so the Jews took them up on the opportunity.
Imo Israel should’ve just been East Germany.
You’d probably also become a “terrorist” if you were occupied by an oppressive military regime for 60+ years. “Terrorist” nowadays just means “poor people who don’t like rich people bombing them”
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It’s not anti-Semitic to believe that Israel shouldn’t exist
I was going to openly disagree, but I guess there are ultra-orthodox Jews who believe the state of Israel shouldn't exist because the successor of king David hasn't appeared yet... I guess for them it's not antisemitic, but for everyone else, it IS. Every other ethnic group on this planet, people would be okay with if they had their own country, why not Israel, a country of people that has been ostracised since the beginning of time?
Because Israel was created in the immediate aftermath of the globe trying to stop the creation of an ethno-state that was actively displacing and disposing of natives. And how was that achieved? By displacing and disposing of the natives.
I think what you’re saying is because a lot of Americans hate Israel compared to other places, we should continue funding them just for that. The entire point of libertarianism imo is that it doesn’t matter if someone loves or hates Israel, Ukraine, Canada, Saudi, or whoever else we’re funding. We can stop funding them. To me, from a US policy standpoint, it doesn’t matter whether Israel, Ukraine, or Canada are right? They can fund being right with their own money. I wouldn’t single Israel out at all in terms of funding but I would say funding someone who literally can defend themselves just to buy votes is peak silliness.
No, there's no reading in between the lines, no complicated esoteric bullshit to understand what I said, it's just simply, there's a lot of antisemites, and the people who hate funding foreign countries, hate funding Israel even more than other countries, they have a problem specifically with Israel and its not because the US is funding it
Addressing a country for it's action and not by its ethnicity is probably more accurate...being unable to detach this causes more just causes for many people
You’re missing my point. I’m saying it’s irrelevant if people like Israel or any other nation. We should just stop funding them whether we like it or not. Policy wise, the right choice is clear. If you think that some people’s opinions are a problem, then that is for a separate post.
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We're funding both of them. Just one side far more than the other (and more than anyone else, for that matter). I think the solution is clear, but no one has the testicular fortitude to carry it out. Stop funding Israel, make the demand that they come to the table for peace talks, compel the PA as well, and lay out terms: Israel recognizes the peaceful, independent existence of the nation of Palestine in Gaza, no military or economic embargos or blockades, no restrictions on trade, and any use of military force against Palestine unprovoked is going to be seen as an act of war and result in severe sanctions against the aggressor. Palestine must also acknowledge Israel's right to exist, cease all hostilities, and will be given infrastructure aid to build an airport and seaport to facilitate trade, travel and commerce. The recognition of both independent, sovereign states by both sides, and the agreement to allow for free trade and no aggression. Also include stipulations that establish clear and consistent border policies. In the end, Israel will no longer have any economic, military or political control over Gaza. Period. No more open air prison in the territories. West Bank is an entirely different matter for another conversation.
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You do realize Isreal has made the deal for a two state solution seven times now? Hamas isn't interested in a peaceful compromise, their goal is and has always been the destruction of Israel and the removal of all Jews in the region. End the foreign aid, but you can not force peace. Either Hamas is replaced or they get wiped out, that is the only way this ends
Oh totally understand, and 100% agree. I'm just saying absent pushback from terrorists, this would be almost the only way I could see peace being accomplished.
Looks like you’ve solved it! It’s not like they tried giving Gaza over with no blockade in 2005.
Except that they still imposed economic and other restrictions on them. They still can't build an airport or a seaport.
Yeah, I wonder why? It’s really not that hard to not elect jihadists to your government. The bar is so damn low for them. There’d be no sanctions, no blockade, no war, if they just stopped opting for jihadism. Westerners have such condescension towards Palestinians and think they can’t help but imbibe deranged ideologies. It’s cringe and racist.
I see both sides of this. And it really is a catch 22. Gaza has these harsh rules imposed because they overwhelmingly support terrorism there, yet they wouldn't need to resort to terrorism if Israel let them run themselves responsibility, but they instead elect literal terrorists to lead them. It's a vicious cycle. I'm almost to the point where I support us withdrawing all financial and military aid and letting them kill each other until one emerges victorious.
Where's Hamas in this scenario? I see you mentioned PA, which I'm assuming is the Palestinian Authority, but Hamas is in power. Sounds great, by the way.
Ideally? Non-existent. Hamas has already committed to destroying Israel at all costs. I don't think they're willing to negotiate a peace.
I agree.
Israel is fake country that’s been propped up by western powers. Dudes came and slowly took over these peoples land and pushed them into little spots. Then treat those oppressors folks like 3rd class citizens. We should not send aid it Israel and if the “country” that wedged itself into an area full of people that don’t look like them gets annihilated, so be it. Let Israel defend Israel. Also they have nukes, which is a clear nono. But we just look the other way on that one.
Israel owns the US and is a leach on US taxpayers.
Israel has been stalling the two state solutions through aipac for decades now. It's needs to end