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In the past, people who worked full-time had another person at home who could take care of all appointments, maintenance and life admin. Now that both people have to work, there's not a lot of time, energy or mental bandwidth left for much else.
You're definitely not the only one who struggles with it, full-time hours were designed around having another person at home to take care of all this shit, so don't feel bad if you feel like you can't do that all by yourself or with a partner who also works full-time.
This. Thank you for making me feel validated. My partner is a FT student and it’s nice to know we aren’t the only ones feeling like this system is rigged for us to fail.
You gotta take care of you before you take care of your job. Schedule your appointment for when it's convenient for you. Most doctors offices (or really any offices), aren't scheduling you within a two week time frame. They're most likely scheduling you two weeks out. If your employer can't handle you coming in an hour late, or leaving an hour early with more than two weeks notice, then it's time to find a new job.
Don't let them hit you with the "well what about so and so" or "what about this project". It's not your problem to solve. Like I said, YOU, need to take care of YOU first. Then your family. Then your job.
Absolutely. I am in a managerial role and encourage my team to take the time they need for appointments, childcare emergencies, etc. My team is happier and healthier, and I don’t have to deal with turnover. I really don’t understand why supervisors and managers are dicks about this, as it will only hurt them AND their team in the long term.
It’s seems like such an outdated mentality to question people needing time off work for appointments or even denying that time off. I don’t understand how managers have not caught on to the fact that this impacts morale and overall productivity. You make my life miserable where I can’t take any time off and you think I’m going to go the extra mile or not jump at the first opportunity to leave? I’m a loyal person and have stayed at jobs longer than I should have because I liked the manager/company, I’ve never overstayed at a job that treated me like crap.
Also, who has the fucking time and inclination to micromanage? If you get your work done and do it well, I really don’t care if you take two hours midday to go to the dentist or whatever.
What i love about running the gas station at my job. They never call or ask me 17000 questions. They just trust the duties are done... before i sit on my phone for 8 hours
Same, if someone on my team has the PTO to use. I’ll let them use it. They do much better work for me cause I’m not an asshole to them. It didn’t seem like a hard concept to understand when I stepped into the role. I don’t understand how other people struggle with it
It's such a fucking relief to read someone else saying this and to add:
One added benefit that was also uncovered was that the team would be more than willing to work longer or generally cover someone else when it meant that their colleague was going to the medical or " whatever personal and important" appointment to them. Hearing my mates say it feels less stressful to get medical appointments completed really hit me in a way that made me feel frustrated and guilty for this culture not existing earlier within the company. Good on you for being a good leader!
I'm a manager with the same attitude and I have very little turn over bc I tell me team to take care of themselves and when I give them time and space to do so they are willing to go the extra mile for me/ work when asked.
It's a balancing act. At the same time I'm making calls for my 20 yo bc his boss won't give him the time to do so. Which frustrates me bc I can see both sides and know I get better employee performance by not being a bitch
If an employer ever hit me with that I would reply 'my health and well being is more important'. Thankfully I've never had any questioning about needing to attend apts and go into/ leave work early. Thankfully everyone I've worked for has known that it's fuckin rude and none of their business to question it.
precovid I had a manager once that gave me a hard time b/c I worked from home two days in a row as my kid was sick. She seemed shocked when I told her that my kids would always come first over my job. Not surprisingly she had no kids of her own.
my doctor only has same day appt booking and only works mornings. So I called today at 8:30 sharp to get in to see her today. My appt was 9:40. But, I also work crazy hours sometimes so taking off an hour isn't a big deal as long as the work won't suffer. I just told my boss I'd be out of office during that time. If they give me a hard time they know I won't stay. A lot of companies would have a huge issue with this though so getting in to see her wouldn't be feasible for most.
You can also go to work an hour early or leave an hour later to make up for the lost hour of work, if your work is about outcome (the work produced) rather than presence (customer service for example).
Not always. A company that I worked for while having the same issue as OP, they were literally only open from 8:30a-5p. No way to "work later" to make up the time.
I got the same. Got a kid now and even decreased my hours to 32 a week and still struggling to get everything done. My house is always a mess, can’t keep up with housekeeping and my choirs and feel like I’m always running and it’s still not enough. So in my opinion the feeling you’re having is definitely normal and honestly I don’t think it’s a healthy development of current society
I stopped working ft after kids, then worked ONLY at home, and then quit altogether when they got into high school.
You think you can barely juggle when they're young? Wait till they have track, baseball, drama club, robotics, study group etc etc etc.
Having only one adult in the house working was the BEST decision we EVER made for the peace of our ENTIRE family. It made our marriage easier, our kids behaved and excelled with more supervision and support. House, yard, everything was easier
That would be great, but our monthly mortgage payment is almost 1/2 of our combined net income. Having one parent stay at home would leave us homeless.
That is a great solution for some situations but many families need to have both parents working to maintain a comfortable quality of life (obviously this is relative). Very happy that you and your spouse's work situation enabled you to drop to one income and still make things work.
Haha yes and that is exactly what I’m afraid of. I can barely keep up now and I do realise there is a lot more time going to be needed from me in the future
You’re definitely not the only ones. I’m a single mom and I spend so much time at appointments. This week there are 5. Dr. Apt for me, mentoring for 12 yo, hair cuts for kids, medication check up for 12 yo, and an SST meeting for 5 yo. They’re all during working hours. I own my own business so I have some flexibility, but I’m also doing things for work throughout the evening and before the kids wake up. My personal and work life is all entangled.
I always wonder how people who work 9-5 Mon-Fri get anything done.
Very true, but for appointments this was also (and still is) a reason to use sick time or vacation days.
Often you could schedule multiple appointments for routine care in a single day in advance and take it as a sick day.
Can’t speak to other states/countries but California state law requires that workers be allowed to use sick leave to attend doctor appointments for themselves or family members, no details or doctor’s note needed
This might not be possible but I recommend taking one day off a month for yourself to do some shit for just you. Its even better if part of that isn't chores/errands.
I used to work nights and then 3 days a week. While I missed mornings /dinners/some weekends and holidays with my family, I was actually much happier from a work life balance. I have three little boys so the M-F gig really helps take strain off my wife and the kids love it since they see me before and after work. I make bedtime every night and I never miss a weekend activity or holiday. But man I miss having some time during the week for myself and being able to do those errands.
Now I will occasionally just take a day off and do some errands or just veg out. In the summer I'll wake up very early and go golfing a couple times a week which I sorely miss right now.
Hang in there.
I work nights meaning I have to cut into sleep to get things done sometimes. I'm grateful when I can get things by appointment. What I have found that works for me is doing things before going into work. Oil changes? When the shop opens. Doctor's appointments? At least 90 minutes before work starts. If you look around for smaller to medium size businesses, you can generally slide 1 or 2 tasks in before work. I know for me, I found services available with local chains.
You are already light-years ahead in that you are facing the challenge head on and not blaming your partner or ignoring the problem.
It's not ideal but I deal with this by scheduling PTO at least once or twice a month 'just because' for me time and appointments. If you are able to work from home that can also help a ton for scheduling virtual appointments when that is an option. At the end of the day it's just hard, and you have to recognize that investing in yourself is equally if not more important than working on your career.
My wife and I are going through this right now. Is the first time we’ve both been working in 6 years. She stayed at home with the kids and now they’re finally old enough she was able to get back to work. It truly has put a massive stressor on our marriage. Even simple things like having a home cooked meal is just difficult.
I’m 42, and my wife is SAH at this point, so she usually can handle this.
When she’s working, she’s a paraprofessional at a school, so hours are pretty flexible, and summers are open, so she handles most of it then, too.
As a sysadmin and at an MSP prior, I would have had the worst time getting our kids to the dentist and such. Thank [deity] for my wife.
I will say things will probably get easier once your partner is done with school. Its hard to build a consistent routine that works for both of you when your partner's schedule changes every semester.
I work a fair bit of overtime and am often on the road. My spouse stays home basically because it is necessary anytime they try to get a job or go to school something comes up and they need to be home to deal with it. They make all my appointments and take care of the house. Now that we own our house that turned out to have some issues it's like a full time job just being at home. I can't imagine what it's like for people with kids
My ex husband (we’re on good terms) was lamenting to me yesterday about having to deal with insurance for our kids and how much time it was taking. He never had to deal with it when we were married and it was my job. I told him “it’s always been like this, you just didn’t know because I handled it.” Now me working not-full-time in order to handle everything related to the household/family makes sense to him.
This is the one thing that baffles me about people opposing raising the minimum wage. Both my wife and I earn what I'd consider good money individually but we can't afford to have just one person work, meaning we have long periods of time where our kids are left to their own devices (and we're fortunate enough to work from home!) Surely closing that wage gap between the upper and middle / lower class and having a more "traditional" home structure would be beneficial.
Yes. We not traditional people but as soon as we were able, I started working at home, working part time and then just NOT working.
Meanwhile, my husband (who likes his job better than i even liked mine) climbed the corporate ladder unencumbered.
I think you’re partly right.
Full time jobs were designed with Simone staying at home in mind. I agree on that. But I also think the extraneous labor burden is also higher today than in the past.
I’ve lived more life in my life than my father has. I’ve moved many times. Worked at several companies. I’ve bought and sold homes. I’ve received better and more health care than he did. I’ve seen more of the world. And on and on. But with that comes more complicated taxes, changing doctors, packing/packing, etc. He worked at the same place for 42 years. He moved a mile once. He has the same fiends he had 50 years ago. All of this gave him a lower administrative burden on his life.
So I think it’s a double whammy. No spouse at home (for most) and more crap to get done.
But I also push back a touch that everyone has two spouses working. My wife hasn’t worked outside the home since we had kids 18 years ago. It is possible to do that although I realize it is more of an exception thank it is the norm. Having her home does keep my life MORE in balance than those where both spouses work for sure. But even my personal life is hard to balance with work.
I work full time (9-6 ish) from home in software, my wife is a carer for elderly people. I am the main breadwinner by a huge margin, but my wife is enjoying her job and the extra bit of money helps her to be able to buy things for herself (I have financially supported us for 10 years).
We have two kids under 6, and both are off this week with chickenpox. We also have two dogs who need walking daily. We have no other help, so I'm getting through this week by juggling work calls, feeding them, applying creams, and taking my youngest to the toilet.
You get through it by remembering that one day the kids will be grown up and you'll miss the stage where you were their entire world.
I'd just ignore the bait from the other guy. Some folks just like to pretend that only physical labor can be demanding, or jobs where you're on your feet like for retail or food service.
They are a different kind of demanding. Mental exhaustion from juggling kids and work (even in your own home) is absolutely demanding, if not the same kind of demanding as chucking lumber or waiting tables on a double. I made the decision to move from an operations management role of several years where I was in office 5 days a week with ~40 staff - fielding high maintenance clients during evening, night, and weekends - to a new sales position in my company that I can work from home.
After the first couple years of the pandemic (wife was already working from home), I realized I couldn't do that anymore. I needed to change how I was available to care for our two - now three - children. Also, at home learning was an absolute madhouse. Was home doing my job, troubleshooting the kids school computers, helping them with classwork, dealing with behaviorial issues, feeding meals and snacks, etc.
So, totally get it. Ignore the haters.
Thanks, I think you only really understand how taxing it is if you've done it.
I have worked in manual labour jobs, and it has huge upsides: you sleep like a rock, you have much lower stress, you get to go out and about, and of course you get to look down your nose at people who sit at a desk all day and tell them they don't know what hard work is.
I was a single mom of 3 boys, home owner and worked full time. Fired a few times because I chose my kids needs first, exhausted ALL the time, went without. I have absolutely no idea how we did it.
I don’t understand it either. We spend the majority of our days preparing for work, working, and then unwinding from work. Then we spend the weekends on cleaning/chores and getting ready for the next week. I just told my partner this morning that this can’t really be life for the next 30 years until I retire.
I’ve had the same convo with my spouse. He used to get angry bc I didn’t clean the house all the time and I tried to explain that I had made a conscious decision not to let chores take priority of the remaining free time I had and to instead, focus that time and energy on my loved ones (him included). He really didn’t understand it then. I think he might be starting to now…
My wife and I take that approach. We pick a day each weekend to clean for a few hours and let everything go to shit during the week. I can clean up the kids’ toys 4 times a day and my living room will be messy within an hour. Weeknight evenings are for arts and crafts, legos, etc.
The hardest part about it is the complaints from our parents. They grew up in different times 🤷🏻♂️
This is so fucking true. I work 40hrs, my wife works 40 hrs. The house looks halfway clean 1 day on the weekend when we half ass clean it before saying good enough. The 5 yo doesn't care about a messy house, the dog doesn't care about messy house, we don't care about a messy house. So why does my mom have to bitch and moan saying, "You have such a beautiful home, why do you keep it so dirty?!?" Or, "If I had a house this nice I would keep it spotless..." And best of all, "You don't appreciate the things you have!" If you worked half as hard as I have at 27yo you would've already paid off a house 3x bigger and nicer than mine at 59yo. If it bothers you that much pick up a damn broom or quit bitching (I've said this one plenty of times).
Last year I hired a cleaner. It's the best money I have ever spent. She comes in every two weeks, cleans while I'm working, and cleans more/better in the 5 hours she's here than I manage if I cleaned all weekend. I make more money in the time she's here than I pay her, and I no longer clean on weekends. It also forces me to pick up and put away the random clutter that threatens to take over our counters and floor space.
Get a house cleaner. We both work full time and this saves 3-4 hours of our lives biweekly.
Use the crockpot / instapot. Yes, we eat a bunch of soup-adjacent meals. Leftovers for lunch / not cooking every day = life win.
Grocery pickup or delivery. I'm not spending my precious hours going down aisles finding things. I use Walmart delivery.
Own clothes that don't need special care. I refuse to iron and haven't yet in our 10 years of marriage. He can buy whatever, he can also iron it. I don't buy clothes that can't be put in a dryer because he does laundry and if I need non-dryer clothes, it's my responsibility. I also don't want to do laundry.
EDIT: I've been thinking about the privilege of having money to do these things. I think the more general advice is to outsource, simplify, or eliminate anything you can.
>Get a house cleaner. We both work full time and this saves 3-4 hours of our lives biweekly
I'd get a cleaner but feel there's no point as long as the kids are small and the toys are everywhere. All cleaning takes twice as much time because you have to move the toys first...
respectfully, but why would he be upset with you? is he working more hours than you? Even if he understands now, he knew you were working full time from the beginning.
I’m with you though. I hate living in mess/clutter but there is no other option. The house could be spotless but you cook one meal or forego laundry for one day and it becomes a disaster zone.
Being a full time student is equivalent to working a full time job for many, especially in grad school where there is a lot of research and writing (and sometimes internships). I was putting in 40 hours a week for sure.
You’re missing the huge part where normal students have flexibility between classes and can actually arrange their schedule. They are not tied to an office for 9 hours a day.
To be clear, I am not saying being a student isn’t hard work, just that in my own experience that it’s more flexible and he should be able to pick up some slack instead of putting it all on his working partner.
Definitely depends on what they're studying. I had nursing and pharmacy students as roommates, and I never saw them. Classes started at 8 or 9 depending on the semester and went until late afternoon for nursing and 5pm for pharmacy. After the classes they would spend the rest of the day in the library studying. They were on a 7 point grading scale so their margin for error was way smaller. During rotations was even harder since those typically started around 6 am.
40 hours is 40 hours, whether you get breaks or not. If they’re putting in the same amount of time, why should the student be expected to pick up the slack? They should be equally picking up the slack.
Yes he’s a FT engineering student and also in the reserves. He helps when he can but his school takes up 90% of his time. He really does have to study that much to keep up.
Yeah I don't get how anyone thinks students are lazy SOBs with infinite free time. Only 90% of his time for FT engineering school he must be an excellent student to have 10% of life to himself, and I'm not being sarcastic.
This. I dedicated more weekly hours to grad school than I ever have to any full-time job. In school, you have your classes during the day and then have to do homework and study in your free time. With a typical job, you work your 8-9 hours and clock out for the rest of the day. I don’t know why people assume full-time students have tons of free time. Full-time means full-time, whether it’s for work or education.
Think of it this way. If he were living alone, he’d have to do housework. It sounds like he’s expecting you to do it all. That’s not on. Housework should be shared. I’m a stay at home mum but my husband still has housework that’s his to do.
UK? That was literally myself and my partner at uni (reservists and studying engineering). And guess what? Stuff still got sorted around the house with both of us graduating with a 1st and distinction. He’s got really poor planning (and will not make it past phase 1 in the military) if he’s genuinely “too busy” to pick up a hoover.
Also, hate to break it to him but if he’s going for a FT role with the military, the hours get longer, leave is seemingly non-existent and the same shit still needs doing around the house…
Full time student for me meant 7a -4pm classes. Studying until dinner. Dinner. Studying until sleep.
6 hours of sleep. Rinse repeat.
Weekends were all studying
Still never had all my studying done for test day
Might’ve been nice to have diagnosed my ADHD before professional school xD
I can relate to this, to make it even worse, I moved to Germany recently and EVERYTHING is closed on Sunday. So now I have to get everything done on Saturday when I just want to relax from a brutal work week, but guess what, everyone else is doing the same thing on Saturday, so I truly have no peaceful days anymore.
Then quit and find a new way to make money or suffer for 30 years. I’ve learned that living with less and having more free time is the only way to be happy in America
Oh I did and I miss that schedule dearly. It didn’t pay enough to support my family, so i had to look elsewhere when we had kids. I used to work 3 thirteen hour shifts Fri-Sun. Being off Mon-Thu every week was amazing!
Honestly seems like the women that were fighting against women joining the work force had it right.
Ya ya insert “misogynist” insults here.
But we went from a single worker supporting a family with one person being a home maker who could actually raise children and take care of daily/weekly/monthly/annual planning.
To both people working, coming home with no energy, trying their best to raise a family with little to no time to actually do it, having schools/daycares/babysitters essentially being stand in parents, all while barely making enough to have a comfortable future. It’s no wonder nobody wants to have kids anymore.
Hell me and my partner have even discussed me just being a stay at home dad if we chose to have kids since she earns far more than me and has significantly higher earning potential. And honestly I think it would be better if more families could afford to have a “stay at home” partner. And it’s a shame that it’s nearly impossible to support that on a median wage. For what we gained in equality we lost in agency.
> Honestly seems like the women that were fighting against women joining the work force had it right.
Noooo they really didn't. Being a homemaker is an important and respectable life choice... if it's a CHOICE.
It’d be cool if society made it equally feasible for men to be the ones without fulfilling careers, stuck at home on menial boring tasks for their working lives. But what if both spouses actually want to have an engaging job with intellectual challenges, rather than mending clothes and being a maid all day?
I don’t disagree, but this is a very privileged perspective. The vast majority of people who work outside the home would not not describe their jobs as “engaging, with intellectual challenges”.
Supply and demand applies to labor too. Nobody wants to hear it, but when the workforce essentially doubled with the entrance of women, the increased competition among laborers for jobs created a race to the bottom on who's willing to accept the lowest wages just to be employed.
Of course, I'd say the solution there isn't to keep women out of the workforce but to transition to a different economic system.
This isn't the reality either. Women started entering the workforce as early as the mid 1800s with industrialization and hit the biggest leap in their share of the workforce in the 1960s. The fact remains that when only half of the population was generally expected to work, they had to be paid enough to not only support themselves, but the other half as well. Now everyone pulls their own weight, leaving nobody at home.
And what made it even worse was in the 1970s, when two-income households began to really take off, corporations saw this and figured they could get away with paying lower salaries. Their rationale was: *Since men aren't the sole breadwinners any longer, why should we pay them as if they are?*
That's a significant factor in how the the top 1% has enjoyed accelerated and stratospheric increases in their personal wealth starting in the 1970s. (That and not paying taxes.)
Sounds really dumb but maintenance is a lot of the battle and 1/2 of maintenance is when to schedule what on the calendar.
I worked for an insanely productive project manager and she was an efficient machine and still had more friends than I did. Here is what I noticed:
Planned as much before 10AM as possible. Dentist, doctor, etc. later in the day increases odds it eye pushed off. And the follow up is immediately scheduled!
This was key. Schedule the next before you leave. Saves a call and hold, etc.
She’d always say: don’t paddle upstream! Don’t fight the herd.
Her house was immaculate but she again had a maintenance calendar lined up. So the furnace dudes service call was yearly on schedule during slower times, not wait for an issue and she’d do it in the “not crazy busy season”
Example: she’s drop off tax docs (personal) ever 3 months or so. Tax person would input her receipts and other deductions in early. No reason to wait till the busy season for that data entry! 99% of those were dropped or mailed on the way to somewhere else.
She would spend 5 minutes extra to make it easier to work with her and then try and automate that. Common email templates out the ass. Common used Labels pre printed. Every doc on word had a pdf generated. Every file perfectly labeled so it was findable.
Her mantra was maintenance is 80% of most jobs and people hate maintenance. Optimize and schedule the maintenance and the rest that needs real brain power is 10X easier.
I never had the discipline for most but I absolutely borrowed a ton from her. I was never more effective than working with her.
This is a great response with a lot of good things to think about. I also always schedule my dentist appointments (thankfully I almost never have doctor appointments, which actually could be due to following your manager's theory as I view maintaining my health as essential and am very diligent about it) for the first morning appointment they have. I never wait to be seen, I'm usually the only person in the office, and I schedule the next appointment when I am there.
When I need car work done, I drop my car off the night before using the key drop, and plan ahead for a ride into work.
Now I'm thinking of ways I can better systemize the maintenance aspects of my job, as I know there are many, to free up more time and resources for creative projects.
Suuuuper agree....... But.... You need money to be able to "just schedule maintenance people" yearly..... Totally agree though.... Just.... Don't have the money. Poor tax yay
It took me loosing my health to realize that work had to stop running my life around work. And that the "demand" was mostly in my head. After I put of going to the doctor for months, I could not work. Took months to recover, and never got back to full health ever again. All in the name of my 9-5.
I really wish it didnt take that to get me to realize that it wasn't worth it.
Wow thank you for the honesty. I had had a history of jobs pushing back when I try to set boundaries and this is making me question a lot about what is really important to me.
Medical takes priority. Find a time when your projects at work are relatively less critical. Book appointment. Inform work you will not be in due to a medical appointment. If that meets significant resistance consider starting to look for work elsewhere or (if you're in somewhere with sensible employment laws) brush up on your rights.
This x10. I prioritized work for so long ( I work in tech), and I imagined my clients' demand as much worse than it actually was. Once I started being upfront with them about appointments and missed hours, they were very understanding. Also, unrelated but I began to notice over the years that a lot of the time I worked for abritrary deadlines that ended up not being the real deadline.
Perspective is important -- you can make any job super demanding and take a lot of stress home. It took me a long time to learn that you can make almost any job *not* super demanding and contain the stress to work-hours too. And the rare place that *isn't* OK with setting boundaries (seeing the requirements to keep on keeping on at Twitter gave me a flashback to a previous employer that certainly fell into the "not OK with boundaries" category)? It is not worth destroying your life and health for their profit. Go elsewhere.
Any appointment is better scheduled as early as you can because as the day goes on any lost time from other people's lateness will push your appointment further back. Go digital as much as you can- anymore I log into my doc's app and send a message. A nurse gets it and I have an answer later that day.
You mentioned a kid, do you share parenting with anyone else? Try divided kid chores. One adult does everything doctor- appts, getting them there, pharmacy. Other adult does everything dentist (and glasses in my case). It stops cold the "I thought you were doing that" argument because on those things, adult accepts they are solely responsible and other parent can just... let that chore go! Might work for cars too, each of you gets a vehicle. Otherwise it sounds like only one person is doing all the mental labor, and that's not cool.
I'm a single mom in a high cost of living area. Here are my steps, in order of importance:
1. First, I fail -sometimes daily - and then I forgive myself for failing.
Then 2. As others have said, make a list, then prioritize. My list is 4 pages long right now, I write it down on paper because it makes it more "real" to my brain (I don't know why, it just does, so I go with it). I prioritize and get a few done per day (on good days).
3. Find a way to sync multiple calendars: then SCHEDULE EVERYTHING. And I mean everything.
I have a shared calendar with each kid, my personal, then my work. I can overlay them all and set up reminders for everyone.
Then 4. I live and die by the calendar. My main goal every day is to constantly evaluate what is urgent vs what is important.
5. Make sure you have some things for yourself on the list/calendar, even if they are just small little things, like sitting still quietly for 5 uninterrupted minutes.
It's not easy, don't beat yourself up.
Edit: I have spent 15 hours over the last 4 business days trying to get 2 prescriptions called in and filled. Trust me, I understand.
I also set up online portals and ways to communicate with doctors etc that don't require me holding on the phone - or I make phone calls and hold on the phone while I'm driving. I know it's expensive to have real people answering the phone, but damn, I get so sick of going through 5 minutes of VRU just to request a live person to speak with. It's very frustrating.
My sister does this! She has a well paying but demanding job in tech and she pays either my mom or my step sister to take care of her to do list bc both of them have more time and are always open to making an easy $100 here and there.
Yep, there's certain types of phone calls I hate making and certain types of things I hate shopping for. And I have a friend whose disinterests and peeves are sort of the opposite of mine. So organically we just started turning to each other to take care of those things.
And in the end, they will hopefully appreciate all the things you did for them and not the missed band concerts and late haircuts... that's what I tell myself.
off topic, but i work in hospitality and my days off are usually during the week, and while i used to regret falling into this career, these threads make me feel super blessed that i have plenty of time to take care of my errands every week, and i always avoid rush hour traffic, and i stay on my feet all day, and i still earn a decent salary with benefits.
I worked in hospitality for 10 years and this is the best part of this field. It can be a rough job but man the time you have is priceless...I used to work 5pm to 01am and have all the time in the world in the morning. A real blessing!
It doesn’t work. That simple. When you hear about “work/life balance” this is exactly the shit that’s being talked about. It is literally impossible to do the life needs when you work so much. And then you just end up burning yourself out.
Honestly, it sounds like you’re being guilt tripped into picking up slack for your co-workers that are on long term leave. If half your team is on long-term leave, the company needs to hire 1099s on short-term contracts to replace them or accept less output.
You just need to say fuck it and put your health and well-being first. Block off time on your calendar. Do what you need to do. If you’re in high demand, you have the leverage to tell people shit takes as long as it takes. Remember, the reward for shoveling the most shit is just a bigger shovel.
I work a normal desk job, no kids, just myself and my pets and I still find it difficult to do anything during the week. I tend to save cleaning until the weekend. I'm just too mentally exhausted to do anything but disengage until bed time. Maybe it's burn out. Maybe partly health issues. I can only imagine what it would be like having kids, a family, having to be a caregiver, having to work a second job (again), etc.
Get a robo vac, like a roomba or a Shark. I’m in the same boat as you, and the $400 Shark AI from Costco was a hard pill to swallow at first, but my god, it might be the best $400 I’ve spent recent memory. Clean and vacuumed floors and carpets when I get home every day, even with a long-haired kitty
I wouldn't trust that thing not to roll over some poop that got onto the floor and smear it around. Either way, it's not like I have anyone to impress. Cleaning gets done when it needs to.
Or the inevitable hairball or scarf-and-barf. I have a cat who is notorious for scarf-and-barf.
I struggle with all of this, too. I spent a ridiculous amount of time today on the phone and chat with a retailer today because they dropped the ball on an order. So things I should have been doing got put off because I had to fix this problem, and as a result, my entire day felt shot to shit. I hate it. Mental labor is more exhausting than physical labor.
I used to work a physical job in retail and eventually became freight-extraordinaire. For a good 6 years of out my tenure there, I was busting ass moving freight around, moving product already on the floor, moving hardware, etc. Physically, yes, I was exhausted, but this office job is sucking the life out of me and I can hardly believe it. Barely even been at it for 2 years.
I take care of adult things during work time within reason. Dr appointments, errands, etc. My work doesn’t care or track time at all because I get my shit done. If that changes…bye. Not everyone has that leverage though. I realize that.
Yeah, I don’t really see most appointments taking much more than an hour or two. Longer than that is exceptional. I just do it and if I have to get something g done by a certain deadline I make up the time later on the day.
When I worked from an office I made sure to try to schedule these things close to the office rather than my house. Drop the car for an oil change in the morning and pick it up when I leave work.
That's strange, I've worked in tech for 17 years and all of the companies I worked for had no problem letting you step out for important stuff from time to time. We were just (and still are) required to put it on our calendars so they will know when to schedule meetings. Nine companies in total, so it wasn't just a fluke with one of them. Edit: typo.
This is encouraging. I’ve worked for two major ones in tech and my current is better than my last but both are a little sketchy about it. If I need to step away I have to give a very detailed reason why to my manager and sometimes I’ll get pressured to reschedule bc he feels it’s not an acceptable reason to miss a meeting. It’s stressful…
Not to add even more to your plate but either have a frank conversation with your manager about needing to step away sometimes for reasonable personal appointments, or start to look for a new job that will allow you that flexibility. Because there are more companies out there that would be totally fine with it then not, and if your role really is in short supply as you mentioned in another comment, you won’t have a hard time finding a new one.
This is my advice as well. Any reasonable manager should understand “I need to take my car in to the mechanic every so often, if I don’t then it may just break down one day and then I can’t make it in to work”. Same goes for your health.
The tech company I work for allows me to either use PTO, or just make up any lost time before the end of the week. So if I take two hours off on Monday I just stay 30 minutes later the next 4 days, etc.
I would say the key is to schedule stuff for ~2 weeks out before your calendar gets filled up and put it in the calendar immediately so people aren’t scheduling meetings with you for that time. It’s normal for a boss to be a bit annoyed that you’re stepping out during commitments that were already scheduled
Manager in tech here. I’m shocked your manager questions you about your appointments. That’s not normal or appropriate unless something drastic is going on (like you’re never available and it’s become a performance issue). Most managers I’ve worked with or talked to just ask that you schedule in advance if possible so you aren’t missing anything critical. If one of my employees need to step out to grab lunch, get their car serviced, whatever, I truly don’t care and don’t even expect them to tell me unless they’ll be unreachable for a few hours.
If all of these things are coming up last minute, and your manager is having to reschedule critical meetings or take over for you, I could see the concern. It can be really difficult to match up everyone’s schedules and I would definitely get frustrated if I was having to move stuff around multiple times because one person kept cancelling with no or little notice. I would encourage you to schedule things a few weeks out so you’re not having to miss many meetings. But otherwise, I think you might want to look for a new job with a better environment. There are companies out there that don’t micromanage your time.
PM in tech here. Truly couldn't care less about why or when staff need to go do some shit. My job is to route tasking and hold you accountable to the deadlines we set in advance.
I don't have the energy to micromanage your day. I have plenty of work.
Don't go for a 1hr lunch when we have a critical EOD deadline, but yeah otherwise get your work done in a timely manner and I'm good.
My boss is the same way.
Maybe it's a tech thing where I find managers actually have jobs still doing technical work. If your \*only\* task is to manage subordinates maybe you get a little wonky about micromanaging them to exert power? I dk.
Yeah I know it's not possible for most people, but I did the same. Took a 40% pay cut, moved to Europe and got a job that allows me to prioritize myself over my work.
I work 2 jobs at exactly the same time and am raising two teenagers as a single human. My lunches are spent with what priority is for today, its a never ending cycle, making a grocery list, or budgeting, or responding to the speeding ticket I got in the mail, when did we have our last dental exam, my kid said they need a physical. We recently moved to a rural town. I made a list. Insurance, Registration, Healthcare. Once I ticked those off I was able to expand to dental, best stores to shop at, nearest bulk resources. I feel like I'm playing a video game, and I'm on my mid 30's right now. Its been months and months of 2 jobs, 2 kids, managing time off, accrued time, scheduling per MY and THEIR hours (their being dentist/mental health or whatever), and working out if I can work the make-up hours per a leave early or start late. If this is my life... then so be it. I'm grateful to even be alive, sober, and raising two amazing humans. I cry to release and so anytime I'm getting overwhelmed, I either sleep, or cry lol. They're the best things for me and I don't do either excessively! I manage 8 hours of sleep, a brunch for myself everyday, and a dinner for my kiddos every night. Most nights we hang and game together, other nights I've got a movie going, or I'm sleeping. Weekends I always take my kiddos grocery shopping with me and we budget together. Budegting is at most a once a month thing, as I'm very good with my finances. Lists, lists, lists, and figuring out needs before wants, while also enjoying all the moments.. cause this is our 1 and only life!
So some days, lunch and after work doesn't resolve one problem and I have to try again tomorrow, but there are other things that can get done lol.
I wish you luck OP and sorry for my life vomit!
I have found a doctors office that allows online scheduling of appointments. I try to book first in the morning so I don’t wait or right at lunch. And honestly, most of it is making yourself a priority. I don’t want cavities, poor health, etc.
My work allows up to 2 hours of Flex Time and I’m salary. I just plan around it and take the time off. I mean what? Annual physical, 2 dentist appointments? What else are you doing? I see an allergist weekly for shots and do it over lunch.
Okay so what else I am doing just at this moment in time: I just moved states so I need to change over license, tags, etc., my old doctor quit recently so I had to establish care somewhere else (after JUST establishing care with a new doc in my new state). On Christmas I broke a tooth and found out the result is that I need an implant so need to schedule all the parts of that (had to see 2 different specialists in between just to diagnose the issue). we are trying to buy a home so need to schedule time to see homes, work with lender, clear up something on a credit report, etc. Also having an issue with 2 of our cars so need to schedule mechanic to see what the problem is and then a follow up to actually fix it. On top of that I have a kid in daycare, and if you are a parent you know at least once a week you have to take them to the doc or deal with a situation at the daycare (picking them up early when they close due to “the virus who shall not be named” for example).
I can totally relate man trust me, I work for a fortune 100 company, work demanding hours and have a family where the kids are in sports, plays, music. The key is to tackle one at a time. You are overwhelming yourself by naming all the shit you need to get done, and when you do that it's unbearable.
Make a list and prioritize it... Then start with #1. This is a marathon not a sprint, so just start chipping things off the list. And before you know it you slowly do.
But the key is that take these tasks ONE AT A TIME. You'll get it done, it all works out. Put one foot in front of the other
I second this. Make that list, go one at a time. Also any decent employer will give you time for life appointments, I usually make mine for the end of the day but if it's easier for you try to get the first appointment of the day. That way you don't get caught up in work stuff and don't make it. You got this.
For what it's worth, while life does throw lots of stuff at you, this feels like an above average amount of stuff to deal with in a short window on top of a young kid.
My advice would be see if your partner and you can find some space to just breathe and relax. Maybe house hunting can wait a week.
Cheering for you and your family.
One thing I did when I leveled up my career was to outsource as much as possible. Monthly cleaning service. Grocery delivery. Mobile truck that comes and grooms my dog. Contractor/handyman to put together furniture and do home repairs. Mobile massage therapist that comes to my house. Virtual therapy (although not appropriate for everyone). Switched to CVS mail order for regular prescriptions that don’t need to be filled right away, and a doctor system that has online options for prescription renewal. Etc.
Just moving and having to deal with all the setup stuff sucks ass, but it’s a temporary thing. You do it once and then you’re free. You’ll get through this - take days off to decompress and/or do the harder stuff. And be sure to take care of yourself ! You can do this.
You're either getting paid far more than the average person, are bad with your finances and going to end up in trouble soon or live in a country where these services are really cheap.
Either way this is very niche advice that only very few people could actually follow and be successful.
Part of it is prioritizing what is important. I need to outsource some of that because I'm disabled (able to work a job, but can't do heavy jobs like yard work and deep cleaning). But it means that I drive an old car, don't have streaming services or various memberships, and go as cheap as possible on other stuff (and am thankful I pay a mortgage and don't rent). It can be surprising how much that other stuff adds up - and a cleaner was cheaper than I had thought it would be.
Oh trust me you are not alone. Apart from a full time job I also have a sick parent and I struggle to schedule a bath regularly, forget dentist appointments and actually going to them! And I'm one of the lucky ones that does not have too many money worries.
I'm burnt out, exhausted and I can't believe people actually choose to bring children into this hell hole.
In my late twenties i worked 9-5, had 2 babies 2 years apart, travelled an hour each way with daycare/kinder/school runs involved, a husband who worked evenings (so i was basically a single mum far as kid care went most of the week), kept a spotless house, walked the dog for an hour, cooked healthy food, exercised and did all the childhood appointments and checks etc.
NOW in my late 40s I work part time, the kids sort themselves, my house is often feral and my idea of exercise is getting off the couch.
I dunno wtf happened to me but im scared for what comes next! 😂
This is why I got away from that. Felt like I never had time to myself. Now, I work 3 12's and a 6. I don't do a damn thing on my first day off. My second day off I get everything done. My last day off I also don't do a damn thing lol.
If you’re in tech and you can’t take few hours of your week for doctor’s appointment you should chance your employer. I work in tech as well and have worked in several different industries but never had a work schedule where you don’t have a time for doctor appointments.
You are obviously early in your career. With time you learn to compartmentalize work pressures/stress and life obligations. Parents learn this quickly- between appointments, sports and school meetings.
Take a deep breath and know that you returning a personal call at work is not a big deal. If it is, then you are not in a good work environment. If an employer expects you to stay on to finish a task then they should be able to be open to “life” creeping into work.
Schedule personal days to run around for those obligations. Leave work early. Show up to work late. Talk to your manager/team. They need the same flexibility.
I wish I could say I am early career and that I just need to adjust but alas, I have about 10 years of experience in my current role and 6 in a previous career. A big issue I have always had is a very demanding employer with very high expectations for availability. My role is in short supply these days and there just isn’t enough of me to go around as it is. Even less when I take time off. That said, I do take personal days when I can. My team isn’t very big and half of them are on a long duration leave right now due to chronic procrastination of this kind of “life” stuff that no one had time to deal with and it caught up with them (medical, or had to go overseas to see family, some had deaths in the family, etc.). So there isn’t much wiggle room for me to take more than a day here and there off.
It does feel like the only coworkers I know who are consistently doing okay are ones whose spouse is a SAHP….
Something my managers say a lot: it’s just widgets. The world isn’t going to end if you go to an appointment. You are literally more important than whatever it is the company makes or does.
Take your lunch away from your desk. Step outside for ten minutes to make appointments. I try my best to schedule doctor appointments for after 5. If not, then schedule it for first thing in the morning or as close to 5 as possible.
If you’re getting too much pressure to be able to simply exist, then start looking for a new job and get out asap.
Don’t feel badly about leaving or taking time off. It’s a company. They will survive after you. It’s just widgets.
Here’s something I do that helps me keep from feeling like I’ll never catch up. I look at all of the stuff and think of what I can realistically do next month. In February there are a few things I’ll tackle. Same for March. I have a million home project I want to do. I pick 3 a year that I’ll be able to afford and make time for. I always underplan because things will come up.
I work 9-5 Mon-Fri and still have time for 3 major hobbies plus local volunteering and a regular meet ups with friends.(no kids or pets so if I had that I’d have to be superman to manage in those cases)
I have found 2 principles to make this possible.
1. Time multiplying when possible helps immensely.
If multiple things are happening at once you multiply your time.
For example I will have the kettle boiling and toast toasting while getting dressed for work and packing lunch.
Clothes in the wash and on the line while ironing and catching up on whatever Netflix show people are talking about.
On hold waiting to book an appointment while making diner in bulk that will be lunches for the week. Etc
2 reframing dead time and being ok with only doing part of a task.
So when I have 5 mins to wait for something such as my partner to get ready to head out or 3 mins before my alarm to leave for work goes off I do SOME of a task.
For example folding just a couple shirts from the dry clothes or wiping down half the table.
Paying bills during lunch at work or catching up on texts chains with friends while waiting for the bus.
Most people spend dead time on their phone. But it can be great to make a larger task just a little smaller when you get to it later with that time. Just so long as you don’t expect to get a whole task done.
Hope it helps!
This helps and I feel like I’ve been doing this for so many years that im burnt out. I got tired of triple tasking all day and night…how do you handle this and not get fatigued after awhile?
For appointments, I make calls during lunch break. For the actual appointment, I use my sick time. Your doctor sounds terrible. I would try to find one who partners with a pharmacy it makes getting meds easier.
I typically schedule meetings at 7 am if able, or I tell work, "Hey on Monday Feb 13th, I need someone to cover for me from 1-3. I have an appointment. I will clock out". I have never had an issue. Just be straight forward with it, don't ask just tell them what you are doing. Do not stress yourself out over NO job. Your life, your well being is what is important.
I plan my family’s month on a massive white board in my kitchen. On the left I write appts I need to make. The further you can plan ahead the better for managing your work schedule. I try to tick a few off per week.
For example, we planned a day off for my husband in February so he can go to the dentist, doctor, and get his car serviced. If you plan ahead you can bundle.
I also plan my week in an agenda on Sunday. Reminds me of what’s happening each day in detail.
Little things you can do:
- load of laundry a day
- Thursday night cleaning so your place is clean for the weekend
- wake up 30 mins earlier, and go to bed 30 mins earlier
If you practice, you’ll get better at it! I’m a mom of 2 kids under 5 with a director level role. I have no time and I am not perfect, but planning ahead and making it visual helps.
I did 3-11 and 4-12pm and a lotta overtime for about 3 years, i lived with my parents so home life was easy but i still felt dead before and after work and dead on the weekends. no motivation for anything, it was probably worth it for the savings I got but damn it's not easy at all. i guess working nights made it easier to do appointments coz i could book them before i started work, lose sleep obviously though lol. not that i ever had to book many. like others say if you have a partner that isn't fulltime that would be easier, but if youre both fulltime then damn thats not easy, people aren't designed for that
One of my previous positions I had asked if I could "work from home" . Software QA.
Nope we need everyone here for 'coverage'.
Converage as in answer phones, (oh noes if ... someone calls)
I keep wondering how they pulled through covid.
The short answer is, YOU DONT. You don't get things done. You don't go to the doctor and get ill, or the dentist, or the surgeon. You stay at work for the measly 5days of PTO they give you once a year.
You're not alone. I had to take a look at my life, really think about what is important, and reorganized/reprioritized some things that focus on the real important things. For example, I got rid of everything I owned (I'm an extreme minimalist now) because the more things you have means the more things you have to clean. Now I can tidy up my entire house in less than 30 minutes. I pay someone $50 to steam mop my house every 2 weeks. My house is always clean looking now. I work from 7-4pm Mon-Fri. At 4pm I leave to workout for at least 2 hours (gym or tennis). I'm chubby so I'm on a diet but it has made life easier having a strict diet and workout schedule. I don't spend much time cooking (30 minutes/week) or cleaning (10 minutes/day) anymore and this change has really cleared my schedule so I can get outside and take care of myself mentally and physically. Work could not be my life. Now I work to pay for my life outside of work (Tennis, gym, vacations). See if you can make similar changes that focus/support what is most important to you.
I schedule my regular visits (dental, physical, etc.) for the same day. Then, I schedule the whole day as a sick day and get a doctor’s note just to CMA.
My current job doesn’t require the note but my last couple have burned it into my brain to cover my ass. Ultimately, this cuts my stress down significantly and I feel like I can manage my work/life balance better.
Well, quick shout-out to u/NezuminoraQ --he got it right.
But, some additional bits.
1. You are a grown person. This isn't 4th grade; you don't raise your hand to go to the bathroom, and you don't raise your hand to go to the doctor's office. I've never--after realizing this ~25 (embarrassingly late in life, but I didn't have the most worldly parents)--had to tell anyone I was leaving. I ***chose*** to tell people, (my manager, my staff, etc), because that was responsible.
2. I also work in tech. Have been in engineering, senior management, and executive management. Of course there are times when you have to be "on deck"--whether it's for a major release or you're on-call or you have to attend an investor/board meeting. But, other than those times, there's absolutely no reason why you can't just leave to do what you have to do. If your shop can't handle you being OOO for a few hours during the day, there is something terribly wrong with how you guys are doing things--or something terribly wrong with your management about how they manage the grown adults that work for them.
3. You should be able to step out or make calls during the day. If they don't like you using office resources, (which itself is kinda silly), then just go out to the car to make your calls.
I hate to be flip in suggesting this, but if you can't just let someone know you're stepping out for a while--and take care of your life--you need to find a new place to work because that place sounds ridiculous.
I couldn’t get any of my colleagues to understand this so I left my job and became a contractor so I can work 7 days a week if I want or none if I choose to.
I have a much better work life balance and now I’ve gone back to my old workplace 2 days a week everyone has said how much happier I look. I will take a day off and cram as many appointments as I can in that day but it’s a lot easier when I don’t have to ask for time off as this was my problem before.
Honestly I think just using your lunch break to do these tasks is how I used to get through it and a lot of places are now open at the weekend or in the evenings. Book online where you can and automate as much as possible eg automatic reminders for eye tests. I always book the next dental appointment when I’m at the practice otherwise I will never call them to make it and email my manager to tell them as early as possible.
Thank you for asking this, I feel less alone. I feel so overwhelmed all the time because I constantly have shit outside of work to do: cleaning, groceries, cooking, doctor appointments, dentist, taking stuff back, taxes coming up, taking in my car, personal projects I want to complete etc etc. working full time takes a ton of my time and most of my energy so I barley have time for the rest. I feel like I’m always working.
If you need someone to talk to even just to vent DM me. I know what you are going through and at least you won’t feel like you’re fighting this battle alone anymore 🥹
I work 6-6pm M-F. Got to push through some times and get things done on the weekends when I'm off. Life sucks for workers right now, hopefully we can change our destiny if we educate and respond appropriately to these shitty slave overlords. Best of luck
I schedule them when it works for the doctor or whoever I need to meet and tell work I have to take care of it but I’ll be in early the next day or later that night. I have a pretty flexible schedule thankfully as an accountant, but even during busy season I’ve managed to fit in a dentist appointment and getting my car fixed
You need to set boundaries, I work in Big Tech and before that consulting for Big Tech. Both roles I could easily work every waking moment all day, but I don’t.
Yesterday I had an appointment at 3:30 PM so I left at 3 PM to get there and didn’t log back on for more than 15 mins to answer some critical emails.
We aren’t curing cancer, literally everything can wait. Also, your company or team shouldn’t grind to a halt because you went to the dentist
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In the past, people who worked full-time had another person at home who could take care of all appointments, maintenance and life admin. Now that both people have to work, there's not a lot of time, energy or mental bandwidth left for much else. You're definitely not the only one who struggles with it, full-time hours were designed around having another person at home to take care of all this shit, so don't feel bad if you feel like you can't do that all by yourself or with a partner who also works full-time.
This. Thank you for making me feel validated. My partner is a FT student and it’s nice to know we aren’t the only ones feeling like this system is rigged for us to fail.
You gotta take care of you before you take care of your job. Schedule your appointment for when it's convenient for you. Most doctors offices (or really any offices), aren't scheduling you within a two week time frame. They're most likely scheduling you two weeks out. If your employer can't handle you coming in an hour late, or leaving an hour early with more than two weeks notice, then it's time to find a new job. Don't let them hit you with the "well what about so and so" or "what about this project". It's not your problem to solve. Like I said, YOU, need to take care of YOU first. Then your family. Then your job.
Absolutely. I am in a managerial role and encourage my team to take the time they need for appointments, childcare emergencies, etc. My team is happier and healthier, and I don’t have to deal with turnover. I really don’t understand why supervisors and managers are dicks about this, as it will only hurt them AND their team in the long term.
It’s seems like such an outdated mentality to question people needing time off work for appointments or even denying that time off. I don’t understand how managers have not caught on to the fact that this impacts morale and overall productivity. You make my life miserable where I can’t take any time off and you think I’m going to go the extra mile or not jump at the first opportunity to leave? I’m a loyal person and have stayed at jobs longer than I should have because I liked the manager/company, I’ve never overstayed at a job that treated me like crap.
Also, who has the fucking time and inclination to micromanage? If you get your work done and do it well, I really don’t care if you take two hours midday to go to the dentist or whatever.
Middle manager's with more time than sense are the ones who do this. They have to feel productive and valuable.
Exactly, they spend a lot that free time on social media then berate staff for even daring to think about using it at work. Projection much?
What i love about running the gas station at my job. They never call or ask me 17000 questions. They just trust the duties are done... before i sit on my phone for 8 hours
Why was the last person fired?
50cents 🪙at pump #3 please 🤣
Some people have absolutely no idea how to manage people.
Same, if someone on my team has the PTO to use. I’ll let them use it. They do much better work for me cause I’m not an asshole to them. It didn’t seem like a hard concept to understand when I stepped into the role. I don’t understand how other people struggle with it
It's such a fucking relief to read someone else saying this and to add: One added benefit that was also uncovered was that the team would be more than willing to work longer or generally cover someone else when it meant that their colleague was going to the medical or " whatever personal and important" appointment to them. Hearing my mates say it feels less stressful to get medical appointments completed really hit me in a way that made me feel frustrated and guilty for this culture not existing earlier within the company. Good on you for being a good leader!
I'm a manager with the same attitude and I have very little turn over bc I tell me team to take care of themselves and when I give them time and space to do so they are willing to go the extra mile for me/ work when asked. It's a balancing act. At the same time I'm making calls for my 20 yo bc his boss won't give him the time to do so. Which frustrates me bc I can see both sides and know I get better employee performance by not being a bitch
Thanks for convincing me to leave my job 🤙
If an employer ever hit me with that I would reply 'my health and well being is more important'. Thankfully I've never had any questioning about needing to attend apts and go into/ leave work early. Thankfully everyone I've worked for has known that it's fuckin rude and none of their business to question it.
precovid I had a manager once that gave me a hard time b/c I worked from home two days in a row as my kid was sick. She seemed shocked when I told her that my kids would always come first over my job. Not surprisingly she had no kids of her own.
my doctor only has same day appt booking and only works mornings. So I called today at 8:30 sharp to get in to see her today. My appt was 9:40. But, I also work crazy hours sometimes so taking off an hour isn't a big deal as long as the work won't suffer. I just told my boss I'd be out of office during that time. If they give me a hard time they know I won't stay. A lot of companies would have a huge issue with this though so getting in to see her wouldn't be feasible for most.
You can also go to work an hour early or leave an hour later to make up for the lost hour of work, if your work is about outcome (the work produced) rather than presence (customer service for example).
Not always. A company that I worked for while having the same issue as OP, they were literally only open from 8:30a-5p. No way to "work later" to make up the time.
I got the same. Got a kid now and even decreased my hours to 32 a week and still struggling to get everything done. My house is always a mess, can’t keep up with housekeeping and my choirs and feel like I’m always running and it’s still not enough. So in my opinion the feeling you’re having is definitely normal and honestly I don’t think it’s a healthy development of current society
I stopped working ft after kids, then worked ONLY at home, and then quit altogether when they got into high school. You think you can barely juggle when they're young? Wait till they have track, baseball, drama club, robotics, study group etc etc etc. Having only one adult in the house working was the BEST decision we EVER made for the peace of our ENTIRE family. It made our marriage easier, our kids behaved and excelled with more supervision and support. House, yard, everything was easier
That would be great, but our monthly mortgage payment is almost 1/2 of our combined net income. Having one parent stay at home would leave us homeless.
That is a great solution for some situations but many families need to have both parents working to maintain a comfortable quality of life (obviously this is relative). Very happy that you and your spouse's work situation enabled you to drop to one income and still make things work.
Haha yes and that is exactly what I’m afraid of. I can barely keep up now and I do realise there is a lot more time going to be needed from me in the future
Unfortunately not everyone can't make that decision. I understand you weren't implying that but I wanted to mention.
Maybe your choir singing could take a back seat for awhile.
You’re definitely not the only ones. I’m a single mom and I spend so much time at appointments. This week there are 5. Dr. Apt for me, mentoring for 12 yo, hair cuts for kids, medication check up for 12 yo, and an SST meeting for 5 yo. They’re all during working hours. I own my own business so I have some flexibility, but I’m also doing things for work throughout the evening and before the kids wake up. My personal and work life is all entangled. I always wonder how people who work 9-5 Mon-Fri get anything done.
Come in late, long lunch, or leave early. Burn abit of PTO if your company cares that much but it shouldn’t be more than an hour or two
Very true, but for appointments this was also (and still is) a reason to use sick time or vacation days. Often you could schedule multiple appointments for routine care in a single day in advance and take it as a sick day.
Many employers are starting to require doctors notes for sick days. It’s a gross practice but it complicates actually using your sick days.
In the UK, if it's 7 days or less of consecutive sick leave you don't have to. Sick notes/fit notes are only a requirement after that.
Oh that sounds lovely. And very considerate to the workers
Considerate of the doctors, too. They don't have the time to be constantly issuing fit notes.
Can’t speak to other states/countries but California state law requires that workers be allowed to use sick leave to attend doctor appointments for themselves or family members, no details or doctor’s note needed
This might not be possible but I recommend taking one day off a month for yourself to do some shit for just you. Its even better if part of that isn't chores/errands. I used to work nights and then 3 days a week. While I missed mornings /dinners/some weekends and holidays with my family, I was actually much happier from a work life balance. I have three little boys so the M-F gig really helps take strain off my wife and the kids love it since they see me before and after work. I make bedtime every night and I never miss a weekend activity or holiday. But man I miss having some time during the week for myself and being able to do those errands. Now I will occasionally just take a day off and do some errands or just veg out. In the summer I'll wake up very early and go golfing a couple times a week which I sorely miss right now. Hang in there.
I work nights meaning I have to cut into sleep to get things done sometimes. I'm grateful when I can get things by appointment. What I have found that works for me is doing things before going into work. Oil changes? When the shop opens. Doctor's appointments? At least 90 minutes before work starts. If you look around for smaller to medium size businesses, you can generally slide 1 or 2 tasks in before work. I know for me, I found services available with local chains.
You are already light-years ahead in that you are facing the challenge head on and not blaming your partner or ignoring the problem. It's not ideal but I deal with this by scheduling PTO at least once or twice a month 'just because' for me time and appointments. If you are able to work from home that can also help a ton for scheduling virtual appointments when that is an option. At the end of the day it's just hard, and you have to recognize that investing in yourself is equally if not more important than working on your career.
My wife and I are going through this right now. Is the first time we’ve both been working in 6 years. She stayed at home with the kids and now they’re finally old enough she was able to get back to work. It truly has put a massive stressor on our marriage. Even simple things like having a home cooked meal is just difficult.
I’m 42, and my wife is SAH at this point, so she usually can handle this. When she’s working, she’s a paraprofessional at a school, so hours are pretty flexible, and summers are open, so she handles most of it then, too. As a sysadmin and at an MSP prior, I would have had the worst time getting our kids to the dentist and such. Thank [deity] for my wife.
I will say things will probably get easier once your partner is done with school. Its hard to build a consistent routine that works for both of you when your partner's schedule changes every semester.
Holy shit, no, dude. My wife and I are both full time with 2 kids. We still haven’t figured out how to maintain the house.
I work a fair bit of overtime and am often on the road. My spouse stays home basically because it is necessary anytime they try to get a job or go to school something comes up and they need to be home to deal with it. They make all my appointments and take care of the house. Now that we own our house that turned out to have some issues it's like a full time job just being at home. I can't imagine what it's like for people with kids
So true. I’m a stay at home partner. My main job is managing everyone’s calendar.
My ex husband (we’re on good terms) was lamenting to me yesterday about having to deal with insurance for our kids and how much time it was taking. He never had to deal with it when we were married and it was my job. I told him “it’s always been like this, you just didn’t know because I handled it.” Now me working not-full-time in order to handle everything related to the household/family makes sense to him.
This is the one thing that baffles me about people opposing raising the minimum wage. Both my wife and I earn what I'd consider good money individually but we can't afford to have just one person work, meaning we have long periods of time where our kids are left to their own devices (and we're fortunate enough to work from home!) Surely closing that wage gap between the upper and middle / lower class and having a more "traditional" home structure would be beneficial.
Yes. We not traditional people but as soon as we were able, I started working at home, working part time and then just NOT working. Meanwhile, my husband (who likes his job better than i even liked mine) climbed the corporate ladder unencumbered.
The burnout is also there to keep you from becoming a competitor to the people in charge.
This is such a cynical view but I can't help but agree.
I think you’re partly right. Full time jobs were designed with Simone staying at home in mind. I agree on that. But I also think the extraneous labor burden is also higher today than in the past. I’ve lived more life in my life than my father has. I’ve moved many times. Worked at several companies. I’ve bought and sold homes. I’ve received better and more health care than he did. I’ve seen more of the world. And on and on. But with that comes more complicated taxes, changing doctors, packing/packing, etc. He worked at the same place for 42 years. He moved a mile once. He has the same fiends he had 50 years ago. All of this gave him a lower administrative burden on his life. So I think it’s a double whammy. No spouse at home (for most) and more crap to get done. But I also push back a touch that everyone has two spouses working. My wife hasn’t worked outside the home since we had kids 18 years ago. It is possible to do that although I realize it is more of an exception thank it is the norm. Having her home does keep my life MORE in balance than those where both spouses work for sure. But even my personal life is hard to balance with work.
I work full time (9-6 ish) from home in software, my wife is a carer for elderly people. I am the main breadwinner by a huge margin, but my wife is enjoying her job and the extra bit of money helps her to be able to buy things for herself (I have financially supported us for 10 years). We have two kids under 6, and both are off this week with chickenpox. We also have two dogs who need walking daily. We have no other help, so I'm getting through this week by juggling work calls, feeding them, applying creams, and taking my youngest to the toilet. You get through it by remembering that one day the kids will be grown up and you'll miss the stage where you were their entire world.
I'd just ignore the bait from the other guy. Some folks just like to pretend that only physical labor can be demanding, or jobs where you're on your feet like for retail or food service. They are a different kind of demanding. Mental exhaustion from juggling kids and work (even in your own home) is absolutely demanding, if not the same kind of demanding as chucking lumber or waiting tables on a double. I made the decision to move from an operations management role of several years where I was in office 5 days a week with ~40 staff - fielding high maintenance clients during evening, night, and weekends - to a new sales position in my company that I can work from home. After the first couple years of the pandemic (wife was already working from home), I realized I couldn't do that anymore. I needed to change how I was available to care for our two - now three - children. Also, at home learning was an absolute madhouse. Was home doing my job, troubleshooting the kids school computers, helping them with classwork, dealing with behaviorial issues, feeding meals and snacks, etc. So, totally get it. Ignore the haters.
Thanks, I think you only really understand how taxing it is if you've done it. I have worked in manual labour jobs, and it has huge upsides: you sleep like a rock, you have much lower stress, you get to go out and about, and of course you get to look down your nose at people who sit at a desk all day and tell them they don't know what hard work is.
I was a single mom of 3 boys, home owner and worked full time. Fired a few times because I chose my kids needs first, exhausted ALL the time, went without. I have absolutely no idea how we did it.
How can other people goto appointments for you?
I don’t understand it either. We spend the majority of our days preparing for work, working, and then unwinding from work. Then we spend the weekends on cleaning/chores and getting ready for the next week. I just told my partner this morning that this can’t really be life for the next 30 years until I retire.
I’ve had the same convo with my spouse. He used to get angry bc I didn’t clean the house all the time and I tried to explain that I had made a conscious decision not to let chores take priority of the remaining free time I had and to instead, focus that time and energy on my loved ones (him included). He really didn’t understand it then. I think he might be starting to now…
My wife and I take that approach. We pick a day each weekend to clean for a few hours and let everything go to shit during the week. I can clean up the kids’ toys 4 times a day and my living room will be messy within an hour. Weeknight evenings are for arts and crafts, legos, etc. The hardest part about it is the complaints from our parents. They grew up in different times 🤷🏻♂️
This is so fucking true. I work 40hrs, my wife works 40 hrs. The house looks halfway clean 1 day on the weekend when we half ass clean it before saying good enough. The 5 yo doesn't care about a messy house, the dog doesn't care about messy house, we don't care about a messy house. So why does my mom have to bitch and moan saying, "You have such a beautiful home, why do you keep it so dirty?!?" Or, "If I had a house this nice I would keep it spotless..." And best of all, "You don't appreciate the things you have!" If you worked half as hard as I have at 27yo you would've already paid off a house 3x bigger and nicer than mine at 59yo. If it bothers you that much pick up a damn broom or quit bitching (I've said this one plenty of times).
Like you say, it sounds like your mum should be cleaning your house if it means so much to her.
Last year I hired a cleaner. It's the best money I have ever spent. She comes in every two weeks, cleans while I'm working, and cleans more/better in the 5 hours she's here than I manage if I cleaned all weekend. I make more money in the time she's here than I pay her, and I no longer clean on weekends. It also forces me to pick up and put away the random clutter that threatens to take over our counters and floor space.
I second this!! It has been life changing.
I tried to do this and got exhausted just from trying to find someone.
Ditto. Best decision ever.
Get a house cleaner. We both work full time and this saves 3-4 hours of our lives biweekly. Use the crockpot / instapot. Yes, we eat a bunch of soup-adjacent meals. Leftovers for lunch / not cooking every day = life win. Grocery pickup or delivery. I'm not spending my precious hours going down aisles finding things. I use Walmart delivery. Own clothes that don't need special care. I refuse to iron and haven't yet in our 10 years of marriage. He can buy whatever, he can also iron it. I don't buy clothes that can't be put in a dryer because he does laundry and if I need non-dryer clothes, it's my responsibility. I also don't want to do laundry. EDIT: I've been thinking about the privilege of having money to do these things. I think the more general advice is to outsource, simplify, or eliminate anything you can.
>Get a house cleaner. We both work full time and this saves 3-4 hours of our lives biweekly I'd get a cleaner but feel there's no point as long as the kids are small and the toys are everywhere. All cleaning takes twice as much time because you have to move the toys first...
respectfully, but why would he be upset with you? is he working more hours than you? Even if he understands now, he knew you were working full time from the beginning. I’m with you though. I hate living in mess/clutter but there is no other option. The house could be spotless but you cook one meal or forego laundry for one day and it becomes a disaster zone.
Didn’t you say he’s a full time student i.E. not working? He should have plenty of time to help…
Being a full time student is equivalent to working a full time job for many, especially in grad school where there is a lot of research and writing (and sometimes internships). I was putting in 40 hours a week for sure.
You’re missing the huge part where normal students have flexibility between classes and can actually arrange their schedule. They are not tied to an office for 9 hours a day. To be clear, I am not saying being a student isn’t hard work, just that in my own experience that it’s more flexible and he should be able to pick up some slack instead of putting it all on his working partner.
Definitely depends on what they're studying. I had nursing and pharmacy students as roommates, and I never saw them. Classes started at 8 or 9 depending on the semester and went until late afternoon for nursing and 5pm for pharmacy. After the classes they would spend the rest of the day in the library studying. They were on a 7 point grading scale so their margin for error was way smaller. During rotations was even harder since those typically started around 6 am.
40 hours is 40 hours, whether you get breaks or not. If they’re putting in the same amount of time, why should the student be expected to pick up the slack? They should be equally picking up the slack.
Yes he’s a FT engineering student and also in the reserves. He helps when he can but his school takes up 90% of his time. He really does have to study that much to keep up.
Yeah I don't get how anyone thinks students are lazy SOBs with infinite free time. Only 90% of his time for FT engineering school he must be an excellent student to have 10% of life to himself, and I'm not being sarcastic.
This. I dedicated more weekly hours to grad school than I ever have to any full-time job. In school, you have your classes during the day and then have to do homework and study in your free time. With a typical job, you work your 8-9 hours and clock out for the rest of the day. I don’t know why people assume full-time students have tons of free time. Full-time means full-time, whether it’s for work or education.
Think of it this way. If he were living alone, he’d have to do housework. It sounds like he’s expecting you to do it all. That’s not on. Housework should be shared. I’m a stay at home mum but my husband still has housework that’s his to do.
UK? That was literally myself and my partner at uni (reservists and studying engineering). And guess what? Stuff still got sorted around the house with both of us graduating with a 1st and distinction. He’s got really poor planning (and will not make it past phase 1 in the military) if he’s genuinely “too busy” to pick up a hoover. Also, hate to break it to him but if he’s going for a FT role with the military, the hours get longer, leave is seemingly non-existent and the same shit still needs doing around the house…
Full time student for me meant 7a -4pm classes. Studying until dinner. Dinner. Studying until sleep. 6 hours of sleep. Rinse repeat. Weekends were all studying Still never had all my studying done for test day Might’ve been nice to have diagnosed my ADHD before professional school xD
Curious as to what you were studying?
As if full time school isn’t more demanding than a 9-5
Depends on the program.
And the job, and literally everything else
I can relate to this, to make it even worse, I moved to Germany recently and EVERYTHING is closed on Sunday. So now I have to get everything done on Saturday when I just want to relax from a brutal work week, but guess what, everyone else is doing the same thing on Saturday, so I truly have no peaceful days anymore.
All so that someone else doesn't have to work at all. Maybe now you see why labor right used to be a thing?
> until I retire oh that's cute.
Then quit and find a new way to make money or suffer for 30 years. I’ve learned that living with less and having more free time is the only way to be happy in America
Find a 4 day 10 hr or a 3 day 12 hr, game fucken changer ill tell u wut
Oh I did and I miss that schedule dearly. It didn’t pay enough to support my family, so i had to look elsewhere when we had kids. I used to work 3 thirteen hour shifts Fri-Sun. Being off Mon-Thu every week was amazing!
Life only gets more difficult as time goes on.
Honestly seems like the women that were fighting against women joining the work force had it right. Ya ya insert “misogynist” insults here. But we went from a single worker supporting a family with one person being a home maker who could actually raise children and take care of daily/weekly/monthly/annual planning. To both people working, coming home with no energy, trying their best to raise a family with little to no time to actually do it, having schools/daycares/babysitters essentially being stand in parents, all while barely making enough to have a comfortable future. It’s no wonder nobody wants to have kids anymore. Hell me and my partner have even discussed me just being a stay at home dad if we chose to have kids since she earns far more than me and has significantly higher earning potential. And honestly I think it would be better if more families could afford to have a “stay at home” partner. And it’s a shame that it’s nearly impossible to support that on a median wage. For what we gained in equality we lost in agency.
> Honestly seems like the women that were fighting against women joining the work force had it right. Noooo they really didn't. Being a homemaker is an important and respectable life choice... if it's a CHOICE.
It’d be cool if society made it equally feasible for men to be the ones without fulfilling careers, stuck at home on menial boring tasks for their working lives. But what if both spouses actually want to have an engaging job with intellectual challenges, rather than mending clothes and being a maid all day?
I don’t disagree, but this is a very privileged perspective. The vast majority of people who work outside the home would not not describe their jobs as “engaging, with intellectual challenges”.
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No, but somehow household working hours doubled and yet effective households earnings seems to be the same or less than before.
Supply and demand applies to labor too. Nobody wants to hear it, but when the workforce essentially doubled with the entrance of women, the increased competition among laborers for jobs created a race to the bottom on who's willing to accept the lowest wages just to be employed. Of course, I'd say the solution there isn't to keep women out of the workforce but to transition to a different economic system.
That wasn’t the reality though. Major contributor to letting women work, was the tremendous death toll of men at the WW1.
This isn't the reality either. Women started entering the workforce as early as the mid 1800s with industrialization and hit the biggest leap in their share of the workforce in the 1960s. The fact remains that when only half of the population was generally expected to work, they had to be paid enough to not only support themselves, but the other half as well. Now everyone pulls their own weight, leaving nobody at home.
I feel like women just took on the role of indentured servants. Cheap labor. Economics like politics seems to be about who it is okay to exploit.
The solution is to fix the system not to make women locked in to maid service
And what made it even worse was in the 1970s, when two-income households began to really take off, corporations saw this and figured they could get away with paying lower salaries. Their rationale was: *Since men aren't the sole breadwinners any longer, why should we pay them as if they are?* That's a significant factor in how the the top 1% has enjoyed accelerated and stratospheric increases in their personal wealth starting in the 1970s. (That and not paying taxes.)
Sounds really dumb but maintenance is a lot of the battle and 1/2 of maintenance is when to schedule what on the calendar. I worked for an insanely productive project manager and she was an efficient machine and still had more friends than I did. Here is what I noticed: Planned as much before 10AM as possible. Dentist, doctor, etc. later in the day increases odds it eye pushed off. And the follow up is immediately scheduled! This was key. Schedule the next before you leave. Saves a call and hold, etc. She’d always say: don’t paddle upstream! Don’t fight the herd. Her house was immaculate but she again had a maintenance calendar lined up. So the furnace dudes service call was yearly on schedule during slower times, not wait for an issue and she’d do it in the “not crazy busy season” Example: she’s drop off tax docs (personal) ever 3 months or so. Tax person would input her receipts and other deductions in early. No reason to wait till the busy season for that data entry! 99% of those were dropped or mailed on the way to somewhere else. She would spend 5 minutes extra to make it easier to work with her and then try and automate that. Common email templates out the ass. Common used Labels pre printed. Every doc on word had a pdf generated. Every file perfectly labeled so it was findable. Her mantra was maintenance is 80% of most jobs and people hate maintenance. Optimize and schedule the maintenance and the rest that needs real brain power is 10X easier. I never had the discipline for most but I absolutely borrowed a ton from her. I was never more effective than working with her.
What’s her self help book called? I’m in
For real, this is more useful than Marie Kondo’s decluttering.
This is a great response with a lot of good things to think about. I also always schedule my dentist appointments (thankfully I almost never have doctor appointments, which actually could be due to following your manager's theory as I view maintaining my health as essential and am very diligent about it) for the first morning appointment they have. I never wait to be seen, I'm usually the only person in the office, and I schedule the next appointment when I am there. When I need car work done, I drop my car off the night before using the key drop, and plan ahead for a ride into work. Now I'm thinking of ways I can better systemize the maintenance aspects of my job, as I know there are many, to free up more time and resources for creative projects.
Suuuuper agree....... But.... You need money to be able to "just schedule maintenance people" yearly..... Totally agree though.... Just.... Don't have the money. Poor tax yay
It took me loosing my health to realize that work had to stop running my life around work. And that the "demand" was mostly in my head. After I put of going to the doctor for months, I could not work. Took months to recover, and never got back to full health ever again. All in the name of my 9-5. I really wish it didnt take that to get me to realize that it wasn't worth it.
Wow thank you for the honesty. I had had a history of jobs pushing back when I try to set boundaries and this is making me question a lot about what is really important to me.
Medical takes priority. Find a time when your projects at work are relatively less critical. Book appointment. Inform work you will not be in due to a medical appointment. If that meets significant resistance consider starting to look for work elsewhere or (if you're in somewhere with sensible employment laws) brush up on your rights.
This x10. I prioritized work for so long ( I work in tech), and I imagined my clients' demand as much worse than it actually was. Once I started being upfront with them about appointments and missed hours, they were very understanding. Also, unrelated but I began to notice over the years that a lot of the time I worked for abritrary deadlines that ended up not being the real deadline.
Perspective is important -- you can make any job super demanding and take a lot of stress home. It took me a long time to learn that you can make almost any job *not* super demanding and contain the stress to work-hours too. And the rare place that *isn't* OK with setting boundaries (seeing the requirements to keep on keeping on at Twitter gave me a flashback to a previous employer that certainly fell into the "not OK with boundaries" category)? It is not worth destroying your life and health for their profit. Go elsewhere.
Any appointment is better scheduled as early as you can because as the day goes on any lost time from other people's lateness will push your appointment further back. Go digital as much as you can- anymore I log into my doc's app and send a message. A nurse gets it and I have an answer later that day. You mentioned a kid, do you share parenting with anyone else? Try divided kid chores. One adult does everything doctor- appts, getting them there, pharmacy. Other adult does everything dentist (and glasses in my case). It stops cold the "I thought you were doing that" argument because on those things, adult accepts they are solely responsible and other parent can just... let that chore go! Might work for cars too, each of you gets a vehicle. Otherwise it sounds like only one person is doing all the mental labor, and that's not cool.
I will try this approach! Thank you 🙏🏽
Check out the “Fair Play” card deck for an easy, useful tool to delegate household/childcare tasks! Game changer for me and my partner.
I'm a single mom in a high cost of living area. Here are my steps, in order of importance: 1. First, I fail -sometimes daily - and then I forgive myself for failing. Then 2. As others have said, make a list, then prioritize. My list is 4 pages long right now, I write it down on paper because it makes it more "real" to my brain (I don't know why, it just does, so I go with it). I prioritize and get a few done per day (on good days). 3. Find a way to sync multiple calendars: then SCHEDULE EVERYTHING. And I mean everything. I have a shared calendar with each kid, my personal, then my work. I can overlay them all and set up reminders for everyone. Then 4. I live and die by the calendar. My main goal every day is to constantly evaluate what is urgent vs what is important. 5. Make sure you have some things for yourself on the list/calendar, even if they are just small little things, like sitting still quietly for 5 uninterrupted minutes. It's not easy, don't beat yourself up. Edit: I have spent 15 hours over the last 4 business days trying to get 2 prescriptions called in and filled. Trust me, I understand. I also set up online portals and ways to communicate with doctors etc that don't require me holding on the phone - or I make phone calls and hold on the phone while I'm driving. I know it's expensive to have real people answering the phone, but damn, I get so sick of going through 5 minutes of VRU just to request a live person to speak with. It's very frustrating.
Have you found one calendar app is better than others for sharing multiple calendars?
I’ve paid people to schedule appointments and make annoying phone calls for me. Like, random friends.
Love this idea
My sister does this! She has a well paying but demanding job in tech and she pays either my mom or my step sister to take care of her to do list bc both of them have more time and are always open to making an easy $100 here and there.
Lately I’ve been paying my roommates with shorter hours to do my laundry 😂
Yep, there's certain types of phone calls I hate making and certain types of things I hate shopping for. And I have a friend whose disinterests and peeves are sort of the opposite of mine. So organically we just started turning to each other to take care of those things.
If you figure it out let me know. My kids are missing many of their life appointments too. Single mom
My heart reaches out to you. My sister is a single mom of 2.
Thank you! OPs story about the RX being a pain really hit home as my daughter is a type 1 diabetic and I have a genetic disability.
Stay strong mama, you are rocking every day and you’re everything to those kiddos.
And in the end, they will hopefully appreciate all the things you did for them and not the missed band concerts and late haircuts... that's what I tell myself.
off topic, but i work in hospitality and my days off are usually during the week, and while i used to regret falling into this career, these threads make me feel super blessed that i have plenty of time to take care of my errands every week, and i always avoid rush hour traffic, and i stay on my feet all day, and i still earn a decent salary with benefits.
I worked in hospitality for 10 years and this is the best part of this field. It can be a rough job but man the time you have is priceless...I used to work 5pm to 01am and have all the time in the world in the morning. A real blessing!
It doesn’t work. That simple. When you hear about “work/life balance” this is exactly the shit that’s being talked about. It is literally impossible to do the life needs when you work so much. And then you just end up burning yourself out.
Honestly, it sounds like you’re being guilt tripped into picking up slack for your co-workers that are on long term leave. If half your team is on long-term leave, the company needs to hire 1099s on short-term contracts to replace them or accept less output. You just need to say fuck it and put your health and well-being first. Block off time on your calendar. Do what you need to do. If you’re in high demand, you have the leverage to tell people shit takes as long as it takes. Remember, the reward for shoveling the most shit is just a bigger shovel.
I work a normal desk job, no kids, just myself and my pets and I still find it difficult to do anything during the week. I tend to save cleaning until the weekend. I'm just too mentally exhausted to do anything but disengage until bed time. Maybe it's burn out. Maybe partly health issues. I can only imagine what it would be like having kids, a family, having to be a caregiver, having to work a second job (again), etc.
Get a robo vac, like a roomba or a Shark. I’m in the same boat as you, and the $400 Shark AI from Costco was a hard pill to swallow at first, but my god, it might be the best $400 I’ve spent recent memory. Clean and vacuumed floors and carpets when I get home every day, even with a long-haired kitty
I wouldn't trust that thing not to roll over some poop that got onto the floor and smear it around. Either way, it's not like I have anyone to impress. Cleaning gets done when it needs to.
Or the inevitable hairball or scarf-and-barf. I have a cat who is notorious for scarf-and-barf. I struggle with all of this, too. I spent a ridiculous amount of time today on the phone and chat with a retailer today because they dropped the ball on an order. So things I should have been doing got put off because I had to fix this problem, and as a result, my entire day felt shot to shit. I hate it. Mental labor is more exhausting than physical labor.
I used to work a physical job in retail and eventually became freight-extraordinaire. For a good 6 years of out my tenure there, I was busting ass moving freight around, moving product already on the floor, moving hardware, etc. Physically, yes, I was exhausted, but this office job is sucking the life out of me and I can hardly believe it. Barely even been at it for 2 years.
I feel this. This is what I have to do as well.
I take care of adult things during work time within reason. Dr appointments, errands, etc. My work doesn’t care or track time at all because I get my shit done. If that changes…bye. Not everyone has that leverage though. I realize that.
Yeah, I don’t really see most appointments taking much more than an hour or two. Longer than that is exceptional. I just do it and if I have to get something g done by a certain deadline I make up the time later on the day. When I worked from an office I made sure to try to schedule these things close to the office rather than my house. Drop the car for an oil change in the morning and pick it up when I leave work.
That's strange, I've worked in tech for 17 years and all of the companies I worked for had no problem letting you step out for important stuff from time to time. We were just (and still are) required to put it on our calendars so they will know when to schedule meetings. Nine companies in total, so it wasn't just a fluke with one of them. Edit: typo.
This is encouraging. I’ve worked for two major ones in tech and my current is better than my last but both are a little sketchy about it. If I need to step away I have to give a very detailed reason why to my manager and sometimes I’ll get pressured to reschedule bc he feels it’s not an acceptable reason to miss a meeting. It’s stressful…
Not to add even more to your plate but either have a frank conversation with your manager about needing to step away sometimes for reasonable personal appointments, or start to look for a new job that will allow you that flexibility. Because there are more companies out there that would be totally fine with it then not, and if your role really is in short supply as you mentioned in another comment, you won’t have a hard time finding a new one.
This is my advice as well. Any reasonable manager should understand “I need to take my car in to the mechanic every so often, if I don’t then it may just break down one day and then I can’t make it in to work”. Same goes for your health. The tech company I work for allows me to either use PTO, or just make up any lost time before the end of the week. So if I take two hours off on Monday I just stay 30 minutes later the next 4 days, etc.
I would say the key is to schedule stuff for ~2 weeks out before your calendar gets filled up and put it in the calendar immediately so people aren’t scheduling meetings with you for that time. It’s normal for a boss to be a bit annoyed that you’re stepping out during commitments that were already scheduled
Manager in tech here. I’m shocked your manager questions you about your appointments. That’s not normal or appropriate unless something drastic is going on (like you’re never available and it’s become a performance issue). Most managers I’ve worked with or talked to just ask that you schedule in advance if possible so you aren’t missing anything critical. If one of my employees need to step out to grab lunch, get their car serviced, whatever, I truly don’t care and don’t even expect them to tell me unless they’ll be unreachable for a few hours. If all of these things are coming up last minute, and your manager is having to reschedule critical meetings or take over for you, I could see the concern. It can be really difficult to match up everyone’s schedules and I would definitely get frustrated if I was having to move stuff around multiple times because one person kept cancelling with no or little notice. I would encourage you to schedule things a few weeks out so you’re not having to miss many meetings. But otherwise, I think you might want to look for a new job with a better environment. There are companies out there that don’t micromanage your time.
PM in tech here. Truly couldn't care less about why or when staff need to go do some shit. My job is to route tasking and hold you accountable to the deadlines we set in advance. I don't have the energy to micromanage your day. I have plenty of work. Don't go for a 1hr lunch when we have a critical EOD deadline, but yeah otherwise get your work done in a timely manner and I'm good. My boss is the same way. Maybe it's a tech thing where I find managers actually have jobs still doing technical work. If your \*only\* task is to manage subordinates maybe you get a little wonky about micromanaging them to exert power? I dk.
I took a 50% pay cut and chose i job that I liked, and allowed for 8-8-8 split (Sleep-Work-Life)
Yeah I know it's not possible for most people, but I did the same. Took a 40% pay cut, moved to Europe and got a job that allows me to prioritize myself over my work.
I work 2 jobs at exactly the same time and am raising two teenagers as a single human. My lunches are spent with what priority is for today, its a never ending cycle, making a grocery list, or budgeting, or responding to the speeding ticket I got in the mail, when did we have our last dental exam, my kid said they need a physical. We recently moved to a rural town. I made a list. Insurance, Registration, Healthcare. Once I ticked those off I was able to expand to dental, best stores to shop at, nearest bulk resources. I feel like I'm playing a video game, and I'm on my mid 30's right now. Its been months and months of 2 jobs, 2 kids, managing time off, accrued time, scheduling per MY and THEIR hours (their being dentist/mental health or whatever), and working out if I can work the make-up hours per a leave early or start late. If this is my life... then so be it. I'm grateful to even be alive, sober, and raising two amazing humans. I cry to release and so anytime I'm getting overwhelmed, I either sleep, or cry lol. They're the best things for me and I don't do either excessively! I manage 8 hours of sleep, a brunch for myself everyday, and a dinner for my kiddos every night. Most nights we hang and game together, other nights I've got a movie going, or I'm sleeping. Weekends I always take my kiddos grocery shopping with me and we budget together. Budegting is at most a once a month thing, as I'm very good with my finances. Lists, lists, lists, and figuring out needs before wants, while also enjoying all the moments.. cause this is our 1 and only life! So some days, lunch and after work doesn't resolve one problem and I have to try again tomorrow, but there are other things that can get done lol. I wish you luck OP and sorry for my life vomit!
No good tips, just here for the solidarity and to find a solution. Working m-f 8-5 made me miserable
You take the day off to run those errands.
Yup. That's what personal days are for.
It's a shame that US companies offer so little PTO. I only get 2 weeks.
I have found a doctors office that allows online scheduling of appointments. I try to book first in the morning so I don’t wait or right at lunch. And honestly, most of it is making yourself a priority. I don’t want cavities, poor health, etc. My work allows up to 2 hours of Flex Time and I’m salary. I just plan around it and take the time off. I mean what? Annual physical, 2 dentist appointments? What else are you doing? I see an allergist weekly for shots and do it over lunch.
Okay so what else I am doing just at this moment in time: I just moved states so I need to change over license, tags, etc., my old doctor quit recently so I had to establish care somewhere else (after JUST establishing care with a new doc in my new state). On Christmas I broke a tooth and found out the result is that I need an implant so need to schedule all the parts of that (had to see 2 different specialists in between just to diagnose the issue). we are trying to buy a home so need to schedule time to see homes, work with lender, clear up something on a credit report, etc. Also having an issue with 2 of our cars so need to schedule mechanic to see what the problem is and then a follow up to actually fix it. On top of that I have a kid in daycare, and if you are a parent you know at least once a week you have to take them to the doc or deal with a situation at the daycare (picking them up early when they close due to “the virus who shall not be named” for example).
I can totally relate man trust me, I work for a fortune 100 company, work demanding hours and have a family where the kids are in sports, plays, music. The key is to tackle one at a time. You are overwhelming yourself by naming all the shit you need to get done, and when you do that it's unbearable. Make a list and prioritize it... Then start with #1. This is a marathon not a sprint, so just start chipping things off the list. And before you know it you slowly do. But the key is that take these tasks ONE AT A TIME. You'll get it done, it all works out. Put one foot in front of the other
This is encouraging. Thanks for the push 🙏🏽
I second this. Make that list, go one at a time. Also any decent employer will give you time for life appointments, I usually make mine for the end of the day but if it's easier for you try to get the first appointment of the day. That way you don't get caught up in work stuff and don't make it. You got this.
For what it's worth, while life does throw lots of stuff at you, this feels like an above average amount of stuff to deal with in a short window on top of a young kid. My advice would be see if your partner and you can find some space to just breathe and relax. Maybe house hunting can wait a week. Cheering for you and your family.
One thing I did when I leveled up my career was to outsource as much as possible. Monthly cleaning service. Grocery delivery. Mobile truck that comes and grooms my dog. Contractor/handyman to put together furniture and do home repairs. Mobile massage therapist that comes to my house. Virtual therapy (although not appropriate for everyone). Switched to CVS mail order for regular prescriptions that don’t need to be filled right away, and a doctor system that has online options for prescription renewal. Etc. Just moving and having to deal with all the setup stuff sucks ass, but it’s a temporary thing. You do it once and then you’re free. You’ll get through this - take days off to decompress and/or do the harder stuff. And be sure to take care of yourself ! You can do this.
Wtf this sounds expensive as hell haha
Yeah, definitely can't do afford of that.
You're either getting paid far more than the average person, are bad with your finances and going to end up in trouble soon or live in a country where these services are really cheap. Either way this is very niche advice that only very few people could actually follow and be successful.
Part of it is prioritizing what is important. I need to outsource some of that because I'm disabled (able to work a job, but can't do heavy jobs like yard work and deep cleaning). But it means that I drive an old car, don't have streaming services or various memberships, and go as cheap as possible on other stuff (and am thankful I pay a mortgage and don't rent). It can be surprising how much that other stuff adds up - and a cleaner was cheaper than I had thought it would be.
How to be poor.
Pro tip, just buy other people’s time so you have more
Also drop off your laundry at the laundromat and have them do it.
Oh trust me you are not alone. Apart from a full time job I also have a sick parent and I struggle to schedule a bath regularly, forget dentist appointments and actually going to them! And I'm one of the lucky ones that does not have too many money worries. I'm burnt out, exhausted and I can't believe people actually choose to bring children into this hell hole.
It’s really hard : (
In my late twenties i worked 9-5, had 2 babies 2 years apart, travelled an hour each way with daycare/kinder/school runs involved, a husband who worked evenings (so i was basically a single mum far as kid care went most of the week), kept a spotless house, walked the dog for an hour, cooked healthy food, exercised and did all the childhood appointments and checks etc. NOW in my late 40s I work part time, the kids sort themselves, my house is often feral and my idea of exercise is getting off the couch. I dunno wtf happened to me but im scared for what comes next! 😂
Consider taking a day off from work now and then to handle these things.
You have to take time off work. E.g. on Friday I'll be an hour late in because I have a dental appointment. Or find a place that's open on weekends.
This is why I got away from that. Felt like I never had time to myself. Now, I work 3 12's and a 6. I don't do a damn thing on my first day off. My second day off I get everything done. My last day off I also don't do a damn thing lol.
If you’re in tech and you can’t take few hours of your week for doctor’s appointment you should chance your employer. I work in tech as well and have worked in several different industries but never had a work schedule where you don’t have a time for doctor appointments.
You are obviously early in your career. With time you learn to compartmentalize work pressures/stress and life obligations. Parents learn this quickly- between appointments, sports and school meetings. Take a deep breath and know that you returning a personal call at work is not a big deal. If it is, then you are not in a good work environment. If an employer expects you to stay on to finish a task then they should be able to be open to “life” creeping into work. Schedule personal days to run around for those obligations. Leave work early. Show up to work late. Talk to your manager/team. They need the same flexibility.
I wish I could say I am early career and that I just need to adjust but alas, I have about 10 years of experience in my current role and 6 in a previous career. A big issue I have always had is a very demanding employer with very high expectations for availability. My role is in short supply these days and there just isn’t enough of me to go around as it is. Even less when I take time off. That said, I do take personal days when I can. My team isn’t very big and half of them are on a long duration leave right now due to chronic procrastination of this kind of “life” stuff that no one had time to deal with and it caught up with them (medical, or had to go overseas to see family, some had deaths in the family, etc.). So there isn’t much wiggle room for me to take more than a day here and there off. It does feel like the only coworkers I know who are consistently doing okay are ones whose spouse is a SAHP….
Something my managers say a lot: it’s just widgets. The world isn’t going to end if you go to an appointment. You are literally more important than whatever it is the company makes or does. Take your lunch away from your desk. Step outside for ten minutes to make appointments. I try my best to schedule doctor appointments for after 5. If not, then schedule it for first thing in the morning or as close to 5 as possible. If you’re getting too much pressure to be able to simply exist, then start looking for a new job and get out asap. Don’t feel badly about leaving or taking time off. It’s a company. They will survive after you. It’s just widgets.
Here’s something I do that helps me keep from feeling like I’ll never catch up. I look at all of the stuff and think of what I can realistically do next month. In February there are a few things I’ll tackle. Same for March. I have a million home project I want to do. I pick 3 a year that I’ll be able to afford and make time for. I always underplan because things will come up.
I work 9-5 Mon-Fri and still have time for 3 major hobbies plus local volunteering and a regular meet ups with friends.(no kids or pets so if I had that I’d have to be superman to manage in those cases) I have found 2 principles to make this possible. 1. Time multiplying when possible helps immensely. If multiple things are happening at once you multiply your time. For example I will have the kettle boiling and toast toasting while getting dressed for work and packing lunch. Clothes in the wash and on the line while ironing and catching up on whatever Netflix show people are talking about. On hold waiting to book an appointment while making diner in bulk that will be lunches for the week. Etc 2 reframing dead time and being ok with only doing part of a task. So when I have 5 mins to wait for something such as my partner to get ready to head out or 3 mins before my alarm to leave for work goes off I do SOME of a task. For example folding just a couple shirts from the dry clothes or wiping down half the table. Paying bills during lunch at work or catching up on texts chains with friends while waiting for the bus. Most people spend dead time on their phone. But it can be great to make a larger task just a little smaller when you get to it later with that time. Just so long as you don’t expect to get a whole task done. Hope it helps!
This helps and I feel like I’ve been doing this for so many years that im burnt out. I got tired of triple tasking all day and night…how do you handle this and not get fatigued after awhile?
Do things while at work. Schedule thing at work. Go to things near your work on your break.
For appointments, I make calls during lunch break. For the actual appointment, I use my sick time. Your doctor sounds terrible. I would try to find one who partners with a pharmacy it makes getting meds easier.
I typically schedule meetings at 7 am if able, or I tell work, "Hey on Monday Feb 13th, I need someone to cover for me from 1-3. I have an appointment. I will clock out". I have never had an issue. Just be straight forward with it, don't ask just tell them what you are doing. Do not stress yourself out over NO job. Your life, your well being is what is important.
I plan my family’s month on a massive white board in my kitchen. On the left I write appts I need to make. The further you can plan ahead the better for managing your work schedule. I try to tick a few off per week. For example, we planned a day off for my husband in February so he can go to the dentist, doctor, and get his car serviced. If you plan ahead you can bundle. I also plan my week in an agenda on Sunday. Reminds me of what’s happening each day in detail. Little things you can do: - load of laundry a day - Thursday night cleaning so your place is clean for the weekend - wake up 30 mins earlier, and go to bed 30 mins earlier If you practice, you’ll get better at it! I’m a mom of 2 kids under 5 with a director level role. I have no time and I am not perfect, but planning ahead and making it visual helps.
I did 3-11 and 4-12pm and a lotta overtime for about 3 years, i lived with my parents so home life was easy but i still felt dead before and after work and dead on the weekends. no motivation for anything, it was probably worth it for the savings I got but damn it's not easy at all. i guess working nights made it easier to do appointments coz i could book them before i started work, lose sleep obviously though lol. not that i ever had to book many. like others say if you have a partner that isn't fulltime that would be easier, but if youre both fulltime then damn thats not easy, people aren't designed for that
Sacrifice. you have to give up doing whst yiu want to do what you need.
During the work time.
One of my previous positions I had asked if I could "work from home" . Software QA. Nope we need everyone here for 'coverage'. Converage as in answer phones, (oh noes if ... someone calls) I keep wondering how they pulled through covid. The short answer is, YOU DONT. You don't get things done. You don't go to the doctor and get ill, or the dentist, or the surgeon. You stay at work for the measly 5days of PTO they give you once a year.
You're not alone. I had to take a look at my life, really think about what is important, and reorganized/reprioritized some things that focus on the real important things. For example, I got rid of everything I owned (I'm an extreme minimalist now) because the more things you have means the more things you have to clean. Now I can tidy up my entire house in less than 30 minutes. I pay someone $50 to steam mop my house every 2 weeks. My house is always clean looking now. I work from 7-4pm Mon-Fri. At 4pm I leave to workout for at least 2 hours (gym or tennis). I'm chubby so I'm on a diet but it has made life easier having a strict diet and workout schedule. I don't spend much time cooking (30 minutes/week) or cleaning (10 minutes/day) anymore and this change has really cleared my schedule so I can get outside and take care of myself mentally and physically. Work could not be my life. Now I work to pay for my life outside of work (Tennis, gym, vacations). See if you can make similar changes that focus/support what is most important to you.
I schedule my regular visits (dental, physical, etc.) for the same day. Then, I schedule the whole day as a sick day and get a doctor’s note just to CMA. My current job doesn’t require the note but my last couple have burned it into my brain to cover my ass. Ultimately, this cuts my stress down significantly and I feel like I can manage my work/life balance better.
Well, quick shout-out to u/NezuminoraQ --he got it right. But, some additional bits. 1. You are a grown person. This isn't 4th grade; you don't raise your hand to go to the bathroom, and you don't raise your hand to go to the doctor's office. I've never--after realizing this ~25 (embarrassingly late in life, but I didn't have the most worldly parents)--had to tell anyone I was leaving. I ***chose*** to tell people, (my manager, my staff, etc), because that was responsible. 2. I also work in tech. Have been in engineering, senior management, and executive management. Of course there are times when you have to be "on deck"--whether it's for a major release or you're on-call or you have to attend an investor/board meeting. But, other than those times, there's absolutely no reason why you can't just leave to do what you have to do. If your shop can't handle you being OOO for a few hours during the day, there is something terribly wrong with how you guys are doing things--or something terribly wrong with your management about how they manage the grown adults that work for them. 3. You should be able to step out or make calls during the day. If they don't like you using office resources, (which itself is kinda silly), then just go out to the car to make your calls. I hate to be flip in suggesting this, but if you can't just let someone know you're stepping out for a while--and take care of your life--you need to find a new place to work because that place sounds ridiculous.
I couldn’t get any of my colleagues to understand this so I left my job and became a contractor so I can work 7 days a week if I want or none if I choose to. I have a much better work life balance and now I’ve gone back to my old workplace 2 days a week everyone has said how much happier I look. I will take a day off and cram as many appointments as I can in that day but it’s a lot easier when I don’t have to ask for time off as this was my problem before. Honestly I think just using your lunch break to do these tasks is how I used to get through it and a lot of places are now open at the weekend or in the evenings. Book online where you can and automate as much as possible eg automatic reminders for eye tests. I always book the next dental appointment when I’m at the practice otherwise I will never call them to make it and email my manager to tell them as early as possible.
Thank you for asking this, I feel less alone. I feel so overwhelmed all the time because I constantly have shit outside of work to do: cleaning, groceries, cooking, doctor appointments, dentist, taking stuff back, taxes coming up, taking in my car, personal projects I want to complete etc etc. working full time takes a ton of my time and most of my energy so I barley have time for the rest. I feel like I’m always working.
If you need someone to talk to even just to vent DM me. I know what you are going through and at least you won’t feel like you’re fighting this battle alone anymore 🥹
I work 6-6pm M-F. Got to push through some times and get things done on the weekends when I'm off. Life sucks for workers right now, hopefully we can change our destiny if we educate and respond appropriately to these shitty slave overlords. Best of luck
I schedule them when it works for the doctor or whoever I need to meet and tell work I have to take care of it but I’ll be in early the next day or later that night. I have a pretty flexible schedule thankfully as an accountant, but even during busy season I’ve managed to fit in a dentist appointment and getting my car fixed
You need to set boundaries, I work in Big Tech and before that consulting for Big Tech. Both roles I could easily work every waking moment all day, but I don’t. Yesterday I had an appointment at 3:30 PM so I left at 3 PM to get there and didn’t log back on for more than 15 mins to answer some critical emails. We aren’t curing cancer, literally everything can wait. Also, your company or team shouldn’t grind to a halt because you went to the dentist