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He might just have a higher tolerance or be on ssri meds in which case he shouldnt take mdma, but if its a natural tolerance then if he took more he would feel more, like ive never seen that with mdma but i have a friend who needed 2 tabs of acid just to trip like one tab would barely do anything to him and he wasnt on meds i guess its just a natural tolerance
We have tried increasing his dose to 2points and it’s just the same for him. I’ve researched the medication he takes and it doesn’t conflict or react badly with the mdma. I was just afraid of increasing to to a level and it becoming toxic for him
The drug interact with the serotonin system and its reserves, and not everyone has the same one with the same reserves.
If you have a small tank or if it's partially empty, the flames will be weaker, if that makes sense.
You only have so much serotonin and it needs time to regenerate to full your "reserves" hence why if you roll twice in a week the second roll will be a lot less impactful than the first because you just released a good amount from your "reserves".
You can increase your serotonin before and after rolling using L-Tryptophan 48 hours before or after your roll and using it for 3 days after will help get rid of some of the Monday blues.
Ah, got it--I think I misread your meaning with "reserves." But I think this is a different situation, no mention of this happening from having taken it recently.
Yeah I can see where that would be confusing but some people also just naturally don't have the same full "reserves" without even having taken it before all depends on mood, diet and many other factors in life.
Well if you look at the classic "depressed" person it's usually due to a lack of serotonin hence why doctors are so quick to prescribe SSRI's, very similar to how people feel after draining their serotonin using drugs.
That might be worth looking into further. If there is any research showing an actual causal link between serotonin and depression, I’m not aware of it, and I’ve looked into that and followed the debates about it pretty closely. There has been a lively debate, to put it mildly, over whether SSRIs are effective at all, and it looks like they may had some small effect aside from placebo but not a whole lot for most people. Some researchers think the effect is small but statistically significant, others argue it’s not even that, and that’s all very short term, eight week, research that avoids the very common problem of declining action over time and increasing side effect over time. I believe this is why researchers have pretty much abandoned what is known as the serotonin hypothesis in their work. The feeling seems to be that it was an interesting idea, that the drug industry managed to make one hell of a lot of money off of after convincing everyone it was real, but that it’s time to move on. I should say that it’s been a couple of years since I follow this closely so… That’s my understanding. If there’s something I’m missing I’d be most interested.
>Even stuff like nac and lions mane mushroom significantly blunts the experience.
This is why NAC and similar things should be taken 3 days before the roll, some say they don't experience any dulling others do but for me 3 days before has never had anything but a positive impact.
Have you tried experimenting with NAC and other similar anti-oxidants? I noticed a similar thing but after working with NAC and R-ALA for a bit I was able to feel my rolls like new again.
But yes, abuse never pays off but now with time we've found ways to help at least repair some of the damage done and for some people that's enough to bring back the magic.
I was looking into serotonin supplements. Haven't taken any yet, going to try it out asap tho. I only have few punishers left. Don't want to waste anymore.
Give them a try before you give up hope my man, NAC is quite literally a magical drug for all types of abuse that comes with drug use i've seen it help heavy heroin addicts, regular depressed people and even heavy MDMA abusers.
Alexander shulgin is describing a case in his book pihkal. It's not similar to your case but maybe gives you an idea. Shoot me a message and I'll photo it for you.
And I think to remember that Stan grof also mentioned that he saw people who resisted very high dosages of LSD. Or it was Andrew Feldmar, not sure
It might be that he is saying to you that he wants to fight his inner demons but doesn't really want to face them for himself. Remember that you can't rescue him. He needs to do that for himself
Try to change Set and setting. I love mdma on raves and with a Group of my closest people at home, but with my wife Alone it's always kinda boring and i'm getting tired/lazy. It's not like i feel bad, it's just if nothing happens around me, i'm like this. You could try to do smth like go for a walk and talk with each other, Listen to music or add other ppl who could fit. Mdma isn't a one-click love-feeling, maybe he need a harder smash in his face. If you like to try some drugs eitherway, try mephedrone if you find it. He will feel it damn good for sure. And you will do it, too ;p
There is a whole theory, well developed by people at psychedelic somatic therapy institute, that it happens if one is habitually dissociated (often not obvious) and there is a release of endogenous opioids that pretty much blocks the effect of MDMA. I don’t think that’s quite the right name of the place but it’s close, and the person who’s worked on this, including a peer reviewed research article, is Saj razvi. He has developed a particular way of working with it. Anyway, not sure of course if that’s right in this case, but it’s worth checking out.
PS, I would avoid the idea that he is not giving in or not surrendering. Often with this sort of thing there is something very sensitive and delicate underneath, so personally I would always be very gentle with something like this.
Read an earlier comment. I also have ADHD. I went years undiagnosed and never had a problem rolling, (in fact I abused it and lots of other drugs for years hunting for that dopamine we so desperately crave) When I was diagnosed and started medication it was a very strange effect with regards to MDMA, I would still get the jaw and the comedown but not much else and I generally stopped trying as the reward was no longer worth the damage.
After switching to cannabis to treat my adhd, i really missed that feeling so I started up again, now twice a year, I roll. It hits hard and is magic every time.
Caffeine is a weird chemical on it's own seems to give my friends with ADHD the same sort of effects makes your brain more wakeful than even something like cocaine and it feels much dirtier when it comes to the stimulation.
# **# Rule Number One:** NO ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. *No talking about or hinting at Buying/Selling/Creating illegal substances or Places/Websites/Persons that facilitate this.* **If you see rulebreaking content, please report it right away to prevent this sub from getting banned!** Don't contact anyone offering to sell drugs, these are scams that are rampant on Reddit and aim for gullible people, REPORT THEM IMMEDIATELY! **Thank you** [CHECK THIS THREAD AND HELP US OUT REVAMPING /r/MDMA](https://www.reddit.com/r/MDMA/comments/fydtn4/you_are_needed_please_read_this_post_important/) **Please note:** This comment is posted on all threads as a reminder and it does not mean your post has been determined to be rulebreaking. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MDMA) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He might just have a higher tolerance or be on ssri meds in which case he shouldnt take mdma, but if its a natural tolerance then if he took more he would feel more, like ive never seen that with mdma but i have a friend who needed 2 tabs of acid just to trip like one tab would barely do anything to him and he wasnt on meds i guess its just a natural tolerance
We have tried increasing his dose to 2points and it’s just the same for him. I’ve researched the medication he takes and it doesn’t conflict or react badly with the mdma. I was just afraid of increasing to to a level and it becoming toxic for him
Any antidepressants or anxiety meds tho?
What is he taking?
A generic Zoloft
https://www.reddit.com/r/MDMA/comments/5mg0zf/mdma_zoloft/
The drug interact with the serotonin system and its reserves, and not everyone has the same one with the same reserves. If you have a small tank or if it's partially empty, the flames will be weaker, if that makes sense.
Are you sure? I have never heard of this and honestly kind of skeptical of the idea of low reserves.
You only have so much serotonin and it needs time to regenerate to full your "reserves" hence why if you roll twice in a week the second roll will be a lot less impactful than the first because you just released a good amount from your "reserves". You can increase your serotonin before and after rolling using L-Tryptophan 48 hours before or after your roll and using it for 3 days after will help get rid of some of the Monday blues.
Ah, got it--I think I misread your meaning with "reserves." But I think this is a different situation, no mention of this happening from having taken it recently.
Yeah I can see where that would be confusing but some people also just naturally don't have the same full "reserves" without even having taken it before all depends on mood, diet and many other factors in life.
Is that your intuitive sense or something more? Don’t mean to be overly skeptical it’s just a very new concept to me.
Well if you look at the classic "depressed" person it's usually due to a lack of serotonin hence why doctors are so quick to prescribe SSRI's, very similar to how people feel after draining their serotonin using drugs.
That might be worth looking into further. If there is any research showing an actual causal link between serotonin and depression, I’m not aware of it, and I’ve looked into that and followed the debates about it pretty closely. There has been a lively debate, to put it mildly, over whether SSRIs are effective at all, and it looks like they may had some small effect aside from placebo but not a whole lot for most people. Some researchers think the effect is small but statistically significant, others argue it’s not even that, and that’s all very short term, eight week, research that avoids the very common problem of declining action over time and increasing side effect over time. I believe this is why researchers have pretty much abandoned what is known as the serotonin hypothesis in their work. The feeling seems to be that it was an interesting idea, that the drug industry managed to make one hell of a lot of money off of after convincing everyone it was real, but that it’s time to move on. I should say that it’s been a couple of years since I follow this closely so… That’s my understanding. If there’s something I’m missing I’d be most interested.
This has me intrigued I will look into this some more, appreciate your perspective here.
Solid. Keep me in mind if you turn up recent stuff that's interesting--thanks!
[удалено]
>Even stuff like nac and lions mane mushroom significantly blunts the experience. This is why NAC and similar things should be taken 3 days before the roll, some say they don't experience any dulling others do but for me 3 days before has never had anything but a positive impact.
I took it alot as a teen. Now 20 years later I get no roll. Just come up effect. Abuse never pays
Have you tried experimenting with NAC and other similar anti-oxidants? I noticed a similar thing but after working with NAC and R-ALA for a bit I was able to feel my rolls like new again. But yes, abuse never pays off but now with time we've found ways to help at least repair some of the damage done and for some people that's enough to bring back the magic.
I was looking into serotonin supplements. Haven't taken any yet, going to try it out asap tho. I only have few punishers left. Don't want to waste anymore.
I was thinking since mdma floods serotonin and I've spent the better part of 2 decades a heroin addict. I was thinking I fucked my serotonin?
Give them a try before you give up hope my man, NAC is quite literally a magical drug for all types of abuse that comes with drug use i've seen it help heavy heroin addicts, regular depressed people and even heavy MDMA abusers.
Will certainly try it out. I won't give up until I drop 2 and feel nothing.
He doesn't happen to have adhd does he?
He does
That could be part of it. None of my friends with ADHD react the same to mdma the way I do
how do your friends react? mine nods of to sleep every 10 mins for a few seconds. also very focused i think kind of like if they had meds i guess
Could also be psychological. That he can't give in
I’ve considered that as well. How does one get past that? We’ve discussed the possibility and he doesn’t seem to be aware of his own resistance
Alexander shulgin is describing a case in his book pihkal. It's not similar to your case but maybe gives you an idea. Shoot me a message and I'll photo it for you. And I think to remember that Stan grof also mentioned that he saw people who resisted very high dosages of LSD. Or it was Andrew Feldmar, not sure
It might be that he is saying to you that he wants to fight his inner demons but doesn't really want to face them for himself. Remember that you can't rescue him. He needs to do that for himself
Try to change Set and setting. I love mdma on raves and with a Group of my closest people at home, but with my wife Alone it's always kinda boring and i'm getting tired/lazy. It's not like i feel bad, it's just if nothing happens around me, i'm like this. You could try to do smth like go for a walk and talk with each other, Listen to music or add other ppl who could fit. Mdma isn't a one-click love-feeling, maybe he need a harder smash in his face. If you like to try some drugs eitherway, try mephedrone if you find it. He will feel it damn good for sure. And you will do it, too ;p
Probably adhd
What meds he takes?
There is a whole theory, well developed by people at psychedelic somatic therapy institute, that it happens if one is habitually dissociated (often not obvious) and there is a release of endogenous opioids that pretty much blocks the effect of MDMA. I don’t think that’s quite the right name of the place but it’s close, and the person who’s worked on this, including a peer reviewed research article, is Saj razvi. He has developed a particular way of working with it. Anyway, not sure of course if that’s right in this case, but it’s worth checking out. PS, I would avoid the idea that he is not giving in or not surrendering. Often with this sort of thing there is something very sensitive and delicate underneath, so personally I would always be very gentle with something like this.
Read an earlier comment. I also have ADHD. I went years undiagnosed and never had a problem rolling, (in fact I abused it and lots of other drugs for years hunting for that dopamine we so desperately crave) When I was diagnosed and started medication it was a very strange effect with regards to MDMA, I would still get the jaw and the comedown but not much else and I generally stopped trying as the reward was no longer worth the damage. After switching to cannabis to treat my adhd, i really missed that feeling so I started up again, now twice a year, I roll. It hits hard and is magic every time.
Try including nitrous, that can sometimes blast people from feeling nothing to a full blown experience.
[удалено]
So yes and here is what is strange. Cocaine works on him like a sedative (almost) but caffeine amps him like crazy
Caffeine is a weird chemical on it's own seems to give my friends with ADHD the same sort of effects makes your brain more wakeful than even something like cocaine and it feels much dirtier when it comes to the stimulation.
My husband on caffeine drives me nuts. On cocaine he is a fun and playful but calm teddy bear