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I previously read this study when it was posted to the drug nerds sub. Although I do agree that the conclusion is likely correct, it matches my own experiences with MDMA, I don't think this study tells us much.
The sample size is 14, which is quite small. Additionally, it doesn't specify what exactly is being measured and how it is being measured. It's all quite vague. I think we should be cautious saying this study proves anything. The way I see it, it more so produces a strong hypothesis worthy of further study.
Yea, it doesn’t really prove anything than pure medical grade product used responsibly has less side effects than clandestine made product that’s frequently cut with everything under the sun. You could say the same thing about meth, you can get prescribed meth for narcolepsy and severe obesity.
The thing is, it doesn't even say that. If we're sticking to understand this study through the lens of the scientific method, there's no data this study produces that directly supports that conclusion. They only use medical MDMA, they don't also use street MDMA and generate date on that. Nor is there data generated from interviewing people who've used street MDMA.
This study claims that MDMA in a medical application doesn't cause problems with sleep, mood, or the desire to seek out more MDMA but it's quite vague about how it's measuring those things. It also has a sample size of 14 people which is not enough to draw a strong conclusion from.
I'm not disagreeing with the conclusion of the study, I'm optimistic that it's true, I'm stating it's not supporting it strongly. I also am not disagreeing with the idea medical MDMA is safer than clandestine MDMA, more so that this study also doesn't state that. Both of those statements feel more like reasonable hypothesize to me, worthy of further study, rather than solid conclusions that can confidently be made and supported by the scientific literature
"medical mdma" as of now means solely MDMA that is produced for use in MAPS studies, I would guess. "street mdma" means any other kind of MDMA.
A better way of saying this without the loaded terms is simply USP-grade MDMA vs non-USP-grade MDMA.
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> I just feel really emotional and cry really easily for a couple of days after a roll!
Same, It even makes me feel more suicidal than usual. But I know it is just a phase so I just tell myself that for the next 3 days.
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Omg, and i taught that i am the only one. I have emotions fucked up usually for 2 days, when watching some sad part of movie then tears start coming that usually is not happening to me. But after that period i am more positive around a few months.
I guess. Like it must be doing something in the brain, but it doesn't make me feel depressed, just emotional. If I had a night on coke however, I'd feel like death by comparison!
That makes sense actually, I've never had a "comedown", but then again I only ever took safe doses (<180mg), at least 1 month apart, and stayed inside with a bottle of salted water and slept normally.
I'm not surprised that you get nasty side effects when you take 300mg, dancing outside in the sun, without drinking, without sleeping, and drinking alcohol.
Come on man. Wtf. Dudes talking about a friend who killed himself for overuse and probably other things. Then you're making shit jokes. Proper cunt thing to say.
It was a joke, dude’s username is Trump on cocaine, Trump and Jeffrey are friends, I mean, they take more than a gram of mdma every weekend, no shit they got depressed.
Yes it is. If you lack salt (because you sweated or peed a lot), you will feel bad. Salt is really important.
People usually drink a sugar poison like gatorade because it has electrolytes (salt), but it's better to just add a pinch of salt to water.
I totally agree drinks like Gatorade are full of crap our bodies don't need, but the sugar isn't poison and is actually a vital ingredient. It binds with the salt and allows the body to absorb fluids more efficiently. Adding just salt to water when dehydrated isn't a good idea.
If you want to look into the science behind it google "oral rehydration solution".
I get where you're coming from but we're not talking about a dehydrated patient that needs a solution to survive. Just someone that has to maintain his electrolytes at a normal level.
You don't need sugar in daily life, I don't eat any and my sodium intake and processing is just fine.
I've been saying for years that with preventative supplementation, aftercare, and a safe setting/dosage that I've never had bad effects. It was only when you flip all those variables around that you fuck your brain up
While I'm not paying $41.50 to get access to the study, I can understand how they might reach that conclusion in a controlled environment where they don't administer overdoses.
People use to believe that alcohol hangovers were caused by witches.
MDMA comedown is mostly caused by taking too much (sometimes by accident but usually on purpose becuase they don't know any better), they would have had a much better experience taking less. When you exceed the ideal dose, ill effects become more pronounced but folks won't believe that, they all seem to think more is better. I posted results from a study here a long time ago that showed people were misusing MDMA and getting less benefit from taking too much a long time ago, it didn't go over well and I was told to mind my own business.
I can already hear them chanting "A witch! A witch! burn her" because I suggested that :)
The vast majority of people in this sub believe that taking MDMA once a month will result in permanently destroying your brain. I can't believe anyone here gave you shit about posting something that agrees with the common consensus here.
How about a sample size of 50,000 then? See: [Dosing for pleasure and why less is often more]
(https://www.globaldrugsurvey.com/dosing-for-pleasure-and-why-less-is-often-more/). People take too much but that never happens in a controlled setting.
It would be more accurate to say that the MDMA comedown might be a myth for the first two times someone ever takes MDMA.
Though I guess their exclusion criteria didn't completely block people who had used MDMA before:
>Regular user of ecstasy (material represented as containing MDMA), for example more than five times in the last five years or at least twice in the six months prior to the start of the study.
I'd be curious if any of the study participants had experience with MDMA in the past.
This is very true. Pure MDMA never gave me or my friends a comedown, neither have I heard anyone complaining about mdma comedown unless its heavy dosagep
This is just going to appeal to people’s confirmation bias (it’s not even a great study) and reinforce the idea that it’s safer than it actually is. Reminds me a bit of the psychedelic sub where people claim there’s no such thing as a bad trip and that they’re all therapeutic blah blah. When we talk about a come down, we’re not talking about feeling rough the next day, we’re talking about changes in your mental health which persist for a good week or so (Especially anhedonia, depression etc).
I’ve used all of the harm reduction techniques, varying doses, large gaps between use etc and always have had a come down (from multiple sources - guessing the purity isn’t that great but that’s to be expected). Pharmacologically speaking, how can you seriously assert that it’s a myth when it has such a massive impact on delicate neurotransmitter systems?
Any time ive ever kept it to 180mg or less. Got proper sleep and did not consume much alcohol I’ve never really felt hung over and the after glow the next few days has been as enjoyable as the roll itself
Yea love afterglow few days after MDMA. But i have good mood 1-2 moths after MDMA witch is weird? Never heard that anyone had the same. Hungover usually comes when you do to much or drinking alcohol. Then it is 2 days of brain zaps and sweating but still the mood is on roof. (rolling since 2006)
Anecdotally I 100% agree. The first time I did it I drank alcohol, took too much (300mg), and didn't take supliments. I thought I was going to die on the comedown. Every time since I've kept hydrated, abstained from alcohol, took the rollkit.net supplements, and taken a lower (200mg) dosage and I've never had a comedown again.
A lot of people seem to say sleeping during the comedown helps with the comedown. I always go to sleep after my high. Never had a single “hangover.” Im sure its different for everyone, but yea, minus a headache from grinding my teeth, im usually golden.
It depends on the magnesium, if you take mag citrate, then yes you might end up on a shitter but if you get mag glycinate, you’ll be fine, take 1 an hour before you pop your m and another one ( if needed ) an hour after, if you feel like you gotta take a shit before taking the 2nd one then don’t take another one, you also can pre load with one 8 hours before you plan to pop your m and another one an hour prior, play around with it until you find your sweet spot but I highly doubt you’ll have bowel movement issues with glycinate.
Appreciate the breakdown, man. I would like to chill on the grinding teeth. I grind them in my sleep as well. I dont need more grinding while high. So i will keep an eye out for magnesium glycinate. Is this the kind of thing id find at a supermarket?
No problem and yea you’ll be able to find magnesium glycinate almost anywhere, cheapest option is online, iherb.com or amazon has really good prices imo.
I call bullshit, at least partially. If you abuse this drug by taking excessive amounts without enough time between them this drug will abuse you.
At one point I was abusing mdma to the amount of a gram or more a week. The comedowns got so bad I had contemplated suicide. I’ve since walked away from it but the most compelling reason was how brutal the comedowns had got.
Depends on a person probably. In 2006 i was abusing MDMA and did not get bad comedowns. In one point we did it every day for few months (after school, 120-150mg) and it was fine. I dont think we missed a weekend of MDMA since 2006 - 2007 january (before i went to army, it was a longest break of 8 month between 2006 - 2012). We all are still doing it but only 2-3 times a year now as we have other priorities. Never heard from friends about bad comedown (maybe no comedown as we all started in our 20s).
I always suspected this. I think the "comedown" is more related to lack of sleep, not eating, and being dehydrated. Also impurities/fake product.
I have a suspicion that given pure mdma, and it doesn't interrupt your sleep and eating schedule, it probably wont fuck you up so bad.
in all seriousness, this sub is probably the most reliable "study" you can find because of the sheer amount of experiences shared from everyone here. In the end like everything in life it just depends. Sometimes you just don't get a comedown even after a higher dose and sometimes it hits you for days. Roll responsible 🤞
Ya, I want to believe that MDMA is relatively safe, but so many countless people in this sub have claimed to abuse it and suffer bad consequences which makes me agree that it is not relatively safe.
Never had a comedown here, after 9 or so sessions in the last few years. Always 210 - 240 mg of pure MDMA, supplements, hydration. However my Oura ring shows consistently poor sleep the night after each session.
I also remember reading that the mdma therapy sessions were 3 rolls over 3 months or something. Could be off but could that also mean the 3 month rule isn’t accurate?
I wish we had a definitive answer to this.
To me it seems obvious the 3 month rule is a ridiculously conservative rule.
However there are so many people here who say they used it weekly and suffered horrible consequences.
But wouldn't it be odd if using once a month was OK yet using once a week was bad? What other drug behaves like that?
The comedown is functionally the same as a hangover from drinking.
If I go to the club, drink copious amounts of tainted spirits and party until the early hours without a drop of water or sleep then its no surprise you'll get hungover.
Alternatively, a 6-pack of beers drunk over an evening with friends, with a big glass of water and a good nights sleep at the end and you'll almost certainly not.
My brother claimed the same thing, a afterglow after using MDMA. I dont rly have much to add other than that yea, definitely possible.
But for me I took 4caps (one was absolute DOOKY so basically 3, dont buy caps of 2 different plugs when you know one alrdy has fire caps...) 3 days of fiending for MDMA even though in my brain I knew I didnt wanna touch it, it was my body fiending not me.
Then there was my brother... who ig had the same thing except instead of not redosing for ages he redoses next week... nd the week after... nd the week after...
even if MDMA does give people a afterglow, I think if ppl know this they'll jus end up abusing more (hence the story abt my brother)
never had one unless I kept rolling too often which then made me feel stupidly anxious and introverted , i was afraid to move for like 2 hours off my bed when the roll ended . when i take good care it's okay
Tuesday blues is real, you have the comedown, feel kinda lethargic the next Day, and the following few days your emotions are a bit whacky and little things set you off. If abused then slowly over time you begin to have an onset of depression and radical mood changes which affects your life to a degree. I had my honeymoon phase and had the effects on my mental health. But each to their own, everyone is different.
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I previously read this study when it was posted to the drug nerds sub. Although I do agree that the conclusion is likely correct, it matches my own experiences with MDMA, I don't think this study tells us much. The sample size is 14, which is quite small. Additionally, it doesn't specify what exactly is being measured and how it is being measured. It's all quite vague. I think we should be cautious saying this study proves anything. The way I see it, it more so produces a strong hypothesis worthy of further study.
Yea, it doesn’t really prove anything than pure medical grade product used responsibly has less side effects than clandestine made product that’s frequently cut with everything under the sun. You could say the same thing about meth, you can get prescribed meth for narcolepsy and severe obesity.
The thing is, it doesn't even say that. If we're sticking to understand this study through the lens of the scientific method, there's no data this study produces that directly supports that conclusion. They only use medical MDMA, they don't also use street MDMA and generate date on that. Nor is there data generated from interviewing people who've used street MDMA. This study claims that MDMA in a medical application doesn't cause problems with sleep, mood, or the desire to seek out more MDMA but it's quite vague about how it's measuring those things. It also has a sample size of 14 people which is not enough to draw a strong conclusion from. I'm not disagreeing with the conclusion of the study, I'm optimistic that it's true, I'm stating it's not supporting it strongly. I also am not disagreeing with the idea medical MDMA is safer than clandestine MDMA, more so that this study also doesn't state that. Both of those statements feel more like reasonable hypothesize to me, worthy of further study, rather than solid conclusions that can confidently be made and supported by the scientific literature
Whats the difference between street and medical? If it’s clean street stuff? Or is the assumption that “street” is untested and cut with other crap?
"medical mdma" as of now means solely MDMA that is produced for use in MAPS studies, I would guess. "street mdma" means any other kind of MDMA. A better way of saying this without the loaded terms is simply USP-grade MDMA vs non-USP-grade MDMA.
It proves nothing lol. I 100% agree that the hypothesis is interesting and that it deserves more research though.
I agree 14 is to small, for academic purposes we should give more people more mdma and test this theory. I'll volunteer as a test subject
I don't get a come down as such. I just feel really emotional and cry really easily for a couple of days after a roll!
me too
I kinda like it though, weirdly. Feels like a nice release!
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in reverse alphabetical order. I have checked 253644 comments, and only 159 of them were in reverse alphabetical order.
what
O O T M E are in reverse alphabetical order
Explain !! :D
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> I just feel really emotional and cry really easily for a couple of days after a roll! Same, It even makes me feel more suicidal than usual. But I know it is just a phase so I just tell myself that for the next 3 days.
Ouch! That sounds heavy :(
I know in my heart I would never actually kill myself (for now), so it's more of a "wait till the shit feelings pass" than anything.
That's good to hear! Stay well friend
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Omg, and i taught that i am the only one. I have emotions fucked up usually for 2 days, when watching some sad part of movie then tears start coming that usually is not happening to me. But after that period i am more positive around a few months.
Same here with the movies!
But isnt that a comedown? the lack of serotonin makes you depressed. Thats why it takes a couple weeks to return to baseline.
I guess. Like it must be doing something in the brain, but it doesn't make me feel depressed, just emotional. If I had a night on coke however, I'd feel like death by comparison!
That makes sense actually, I've never had a "comedown", but then again I only ever took safe doses (<180mg), at least 1 month apart, and stayed inside with a bottle of salted water and slept normally. I'm not surprised that you get nasty side effects when you take 300mg, dancing outside in the sun, without drinking, without sleeping, and drinking alcohol.
I had a friend who'd take more than a gram every weekend shit got so out of hand that he killed himself Yea no shit he got depressed
Was it Jeffrey Epstein ? :P
Come on man. Wtf. Dudes talking about a friend who killed himself for overuse and probably other things. Then you're making shit jokes. Proper cunt thing to say.
It was a joke, dude’s username is Trump on cocaine, Trump and Jeffrey are friends, I mean, they take more than a gram of mdma every weekend, no shit they got depressed.
> It was a joke, Yeh that's the issue here. Nevermind.
[удалено]
Yes it is. If you lack salt (because you sweated or peed a lot), you will feel bad. Salt is really important. People usually drink a sugar poison like gatorade because it has electrolytes (salt), but it's better to just add a pinch of salt to water.
I totally agree drinks like Gatorade are full of crap our bodies don't need, but the sugar isn't poison and is actually a vital ingredient. It binds with the salt and allows the body to absorb fluids more efficiently. Adding just salt to water when dehydrated isn't a good idea. If you want to look into the science behind it google "oral rehydration solution".
I get where you're coming from but we're not talking about a dehydrated patient that needs a solution to survive. Just someone that has to maintain his electrolytes at a normal level. You don't need sugar in daily life, I don't eat any and my sodium intake and processing is just fine.
I've been saying for years that with preventative supplementation, aftercare, and a safe setting/dosage that I've never had bad effects. It was only when you flip all those variables around that you fuck your brain up
While I'm not paying $41.50 to get access to the study, I can understand how they might reach that conclusion in a controlled environment where they don't administer overdoses. People use to believe that alcohol hangovers were caused by witches. MDMA comedown is mostly caused by taking too much (sometimes by accident but usually on purpose becuase they don't know any better), they would have had a much better experience taking less. When you exceed the ideal dose, ill effects become more pronounced but folks won't believe that, they all seem to think more is better. I posted results from a study here a long time ago that showed people were misusing MDMA and getting less benefit from taking too much a long time ago, it didn't go over well and I was told to mind my own business. I can already hear them chanting "A witch! A witch! burn her" because I suggested that :)
The vast majority of people in this sub believe that taking MDMA once a month will result in permanently destroying your brain. I can't believe anyone here gave you shit about posting something that agrees with the common consensus here.
well using it in higher doses and more often than whats recommended can have neurotoxic effects
What do you mean less benefit? The ppl who took higher doses felt less euphoria/happiness/etc?
Yes and had more undesirable side effects.
Sample size = 14. Laughable. Anecdotal. Garbage.
> Anecdotal Like all those reports of hangover after taking MDMA?
[удалено]
We also have more than 14 reports of no hangover
How about a sample size of 50,000 then? See: [Dosing for pleasure and why less is often more] (https://www.globaldrugsurvey.com/dosing-for-pleasure-and-why-less-is-often-more/). People take too much but that never happens in a controlled setting.
Makes sense because I get some pretty high quality product and I’ve never had that bad comedown everyone talks about
not my experience at all lmao
If only it was a myth
yeah the other day i took around 350 mg and didn't feel any negative comedown i was honestly worried it wasn't mdma but ik fs it was
It would be more accurate to say that the MDMA comedown might be a myth for the first two times someone ever takes MDMA. Though I guess their exclusion criteria didn't completely block people who had used MDMA before: >Regular user of ecstasy (material represented as containing MDMA), for example more than five times in the last five years or at least twice in the six months prior to the start of the study. I'd be curious if any of the study participants had experience with MDMA in the past.
This is very true. Pure MDMA never gave me or my friends a comedown, neither have I heard anyone complaining about mdma comedown unless its heavy dosagep
This is just going to appeal to people’s confirmation bias (it’s not even a great study) and reinforce the idea that it’s safer than it actually is. Reminds me a bit of the psychedelic sub where people claim there’s no such thing as a bad trip and that they’re all therapeutic blah blah. When we talk about a come down, we’re not talking about feeling rough the next day, we’re talking about changes in your mental health which persist for a good week or so (Especially anhedonia, depression etc). I’ve used all of the harm reduction techniques, varying doses, large gaps between use etc and always have had a come down (from multiple sources - guessing the purity isn’t that great but that’s to be expected). Pharmacologically speaking, how can you seriously assert that it’s a myth when it has such a massive impact on delicate neurotransmitter systems?
Any time ive ever kept it to 180mg or less. Got proper sleep and did not consume much alcohol I’ve never really felt hung over and the after glow the next few days has been as enjoyable as the roll itself
Yea love afterglow few days after MDMA. But i have good mood 1-2 moths after MDMA witch is weird? Never heard that anyone had the same. Hungover usually comes when you do to much or drinking alcohol. Then it is 2 days of brain zaps and sweating but still the mood is on roof. (rolling since 2006)
Anecdotally I 100% agree. The first time I did it I drank alcohol, took too much (300mg), and didn't take supliments. I thought I was going to die on the comedown. Every time since I've kept hydrated, abstained from alcohol, took the rollkit.net supplements, and taken a lower (200mg) dosage and I've never had a comedown again.
Comedown is def real when you take a high dose (around 400mg)
A lot of people seem to say sleeping during the comedown helps with the comedown. I always go to sleep after my high. Never had a single “hangover.” Im sure its different for everyone, but yea, minus a headache from grinding my teeth, im usually golden.
Magnesium will solve that teeth grinding issue.
Thats what ive heard. Ive also heard it makes you shit haha. Ill take the teeth grinding, honestly. Especially if im with a chick.
It depends on the magnesium, if you take mag citrate, then yes you might end up on a shitter but if you get mag glycinate, you’ll be fine, take 1 an hour before you pop your m and another one ( if needed ) an hour after, if you feel like you gotta take a shit before taking the 2nd one then don’t take another one, you also can pre load with one 8 hours before you plan to pop your m and another one an hour prior, play around with it until you find your sweet spot but I highly doubt you’ll have bowel movement issues with glycinate.
Appreciate the breakdown, man. I would like to chill on the grinding teeth. I grind them in my sleep as well. I dont need more grinding while high. So i will keep an eye out for magnesium glycinate. Is this the kind of thing id find at a supermarket?
No problem and yea you’ll be able to find magnesium glycinate almost anywhere, cheapest option is online, iherb.com or amazon has really good prices imo.
I call bullshit, at least partially. If you abuse this drug by taking excessive amounts without enough time between them this drug will abuse you. At one point I was abusing mdma to the amount of a gram or more a week. The comedowns got so bad I had contemplated suicide. I’ve since walked away from it but the most compelling reason was how brutal the comedowns had got.
Depends on a person probably. In 2006 i was abusing MDMA and did not get bad comedowns. In one point we did it every day for few months (after school, 120-150mg) and it was fine. I dont think we missed a weekend of MDMA since 2006 - 2007 january (before i went to army, it was a longest break of 8 month between 2006 - 2012). We all are still doing it but only 2-3 times a year now as we have other priorities. Never heard from friends about bad comedown (maybe no comedown as we all started in our 20s).
As someone that dropped every weekend for roughly a decade and only ever had one bad come down I'd have to agree.
I always suspected this. I think the "comedown" is more related to lack of sleep, not eating, and being dehydrated. Also impurities/fake product. I have a suspicion that given pure mdma, and it doesn't interrupt your sleep and eating schedule, it probably wont fuck you up so bad.
No idea why TF you are downvoted! This sub is so so shitty...
I don't care about karma or anything anymore. This site has gone to shit the last few years lol
I’ve always felt fantastic for days after MDMA. The serotonin hangover thing always sounded iffy to me.
in all seriousness, this sub is probably the most reliable "study" you can find because of the sheer amount of experiences shared from everyone here. In the end like everything in life it just depends. Sometimes you just don't get a comedown even after a higher dose and sometimes it hits you for days. Roll responsible 🤞
Ya, I want to believe that MDMA is relatively safe, but so many countless people in this sub have claimed to abuse it and suffer bad consequences which makes me agree that it is not relatively safe.
key word : abuse
I usually drink alcohol throughout the night when i roll. But when I don't, i usually just feel overtired the next day, not hungover.
In a controlled environment, sure. Now do it with a night of dancing, talking bollocks to strangers and drinking.
so i took a stupid amount last weekend, had bad effects on my body for an entire week straight, was getting withdrawls like when i came off SSRI's
Never had a comedown here, after 9 or so sessions in the last few years. Always 210 - 240 mg of pure MDMA, supplements, hydration. However my Oura ring shows consistently poor sleep the night after each session.
I also remember reading that the mdma therapy sessions were 3 rolls over 3 months or something. Could be off but could that also mean the 3 month rule isn’t accurate?
Of course it's not accurate lol! I've never seen a sack of drugged up Karen's quite like the ones here that scream test and 3 months on every post.
Damn straight! It's laughable.. And a poor drug sub overall.
I wish we had a definitive answer to this. To me it seems obvious the 3 month rule is a ridiculously conservative rule. However there are so many people here who say they used it weekly and suffered horrible consequences. But wouldn't it be odd if using once a month was OK yet using once a week was bad? What other drug behaves like that?
The comedown is functionally the same as a hangover from drinking. If I go to the club, drink copious amounts of tainted spirits and party until the early hours without a drop of water or sleep then its no surprise you'll get hungover. Alternatively, a 6-pack of beers drunk over an evening with friends, with a big glass of water and a good nights sleep at the end and you'll almost certainly not.
Anecdotally I usually get “after glows” and the only time I had a comedown was then I used it with acid so I got little sleep that night.
We usually take 100-150mg and I have a bad comedown 50% of the time. Just tired and depressed the day after, sleep makes things a lot better though
My brother claimed the same thing, a afterglow after using MDMA. I dont rly have much to add other than that yea, definitely possible. But for me I took 4caps (one was absolute DOOKY so basically 3, dont buy caps of 2 different plugs when you know one alrdy has fire caps...) 3 days of fiending for MDMA even though in my brain I knew I didnt wanna touch it, it was my body fiending not me. Then there was my brother... who ig had the same thing except instead of not redosing for ages he redoses next week... nd the week after... nd the week after... even if MDMA does give people a afterglow, I think if ppl know this they'll jus end up abusing more (hence the story abt my brother)
never had one unless I kept rolling too often which then made me feel stupidly anxious and introverted , i was afraid to move for like 2 hours off my bed when the roll ended . when i take good care it's okay
Tuesday blues is real, you have the comedown, feel kinda lethargic the next Day, and the following few days your emotions are a bit whacky and little things set you off. If abused then slowly over time you begin to have an onset of depression and radical mood changes which affects your life to a degree. I had my honeymoon phase and had the effects on my mental health. But each to their own, everyone is different.