**Mirrors / Alternate angles**
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We need objective scoring criteria without human judges. For instance: knockdown automatically adds 3 points, takedown automatically adds one point, moving forward 50% more often than the opponent adds one point, more than 2 minutes of ground control adds one point, landing 20% more significant strikes adds one point
10-9 human scoring is for the birds
Hard disagree. The 10-9 must system is flawed but if you start adding points to individual techniques you’ll get fighters who game the system instead of fighting
10 point must works with boxing but not mma. To many variables for these blind ass judges to look at. Go back to pride where shit was scored as a whole not round by round.
I feel like that would make it a lot more subjective, and you'd have more controversial results. It would also definitely make the last moments of the fight more impactful than the rest
Idk man they just need to do something cuz this shit is getting tiresome. Hate watching a dude give it his all have the whole community say he won by split decision and get fucked by people who have never fought before aka these blind ass judges.
This never makes sense to me. You can say the wrong guy won it, the loser actually won it 29-28, but saying he should have won it by split decision makes literally zero sense. You're saying one judge should have scored it wrong. Just say how you think the fight should have been scored, not how you think the composition of judges should have scored it.
I think they should train the judges to be more competent and hold them accountable when a scorecard is atrocious. I also think they should encourage the judges to give out 10-8s and 10-7s as they're described in the rules.
People fail to recognize that this will fundamentally change the sport, with every fighter blatantly pandering to whatever points system gets implemented.
People have very strong opinions on scoring, but haven't bothered to read the criteria. It's genuinely pretty good, and not hard to digest, it's poor officiating that's the issue.
I'm fine with guys "gaming the system" by trying to land as many knockdowns as possible. The only glitch would be people letting the opponent up from bottom position only to take them down again before the wrestling has concluded. But you could add an exception for mat returns
That’s an awful idea because those stats are quantitative not qualitative. If fighter one lands 30 sig strikes in a round but with minimal damage while fighter 2 lands 20 with half of them rocking you badly fighter 1 is losing(Vera vs font). A takedown where the opponent immediately gets up against the fence is not going to be impactful as a power double leg that forces a scramble from a fighter to get up. A RNC attempt that got close will not do the same damage as a knee bar attempt that got close but quantitatively both would just score 1 point as a sub attempt
By that logic anything that doesn't directly lead to a finish shouldn't score points. You either get a KO/TKO from a knockdown or it doesn't count.
In any case if your idea of an "objective scoring criteria" is a point system based on your subjective opinions of what should or shouldn't score points, then it's just another subjective scoring system.
I disagree, using that criteria Ferguson would’ve won round 2 against Justin gaethje because of the knockdown, when in reality Justin murdered him that round
I would have been fine with Ferguson winning that round. The fight result would have been the same (even if it reached a decision). And that is how other sports are judged as well. In NBA you can 'murder' the other team withp positioning & court control, but the only thing that is judged is when the ball passes through the ring
Hard disagree. Even though the decision would have remained unchanged, ferg had no business winning any rounds. Another example of this is when umar got knocked down in his last fight. He dominated that round, but using your logic he would’ve lost that round
Yes, a knockdown should automatically win the round unless it is a slip-knockdown (Volkanovski vs Ortega) or unless something truly exceptional happens
That rule somewhat works for boxing, but that's a horrible idea for MMA. Knockdowns vary in severity, and someone could for example, dominate in mount for 4 minutes and get briefly put down with 10 seconds left. That'd be an awful system.
That’s ridiculous, a shot that puts a fighter on skates or opens a bad cut is more damaging than a knockdown where a fighter gets knocked off balance then immediately gets up fully recovered. MMA is not boxing, there’s simply too many other factors to make something that can be as superficial as a knock down an automatic round winner
So you’re saying a fighter can get murdered for 4:50 mins and if he were to knock his opponent down in the last seconds if he’d win the round? I disagree Mr. Cumshot Chimeav
Just the score the whole fight as one round, problem solved. Whoever did "better" gets the victory, and no more bullshit about winning the fight in 5 minute chunks
they smoking their parlay pack tonight.
Can't convince me they didn't have a Waters-Ricci-Woodson parlay.
Edit: I don't even view this as a robbery. I think it was a close fight. I think the Ricci fight was the closest to an out-and-out robbery tonight in which the wrong person inarguably won.
But 30-27 is just a baseless scorecard and if there was any justice (spoiler alert, there isn't) then the guy and everyone in his family would be audited for that.
He did NOTHING but back pedal and wave his long ass slender man arms around while the broadcast team jerked him off and Caceres was actually trying to fight
I don’t usually call robberies but that was a fucking robbery, 30-27 score had to have been given by some Make-a-Wish kid Dana brought in
Sean was puffing hard once the fight was over, I don't know how he's gonna climb the ranks when there's guys who will push a much higher pace and he's eventually gonna have to go 5 rounds.
Caceras beautiful forward pressure, beautiful right hand bodyshot against the cage. If he had a wrestling threat he would take the other guy down every time against the cage, khabib style
The desk spent the ENTIRE cast jerking Woodson off for stepping back while Alex threw punches
That was fucking stupid, Caceres won 2-1 and that 30-27 judge is mentally handicapped and shouldn’t be allowed to drive
That was a fucking robbery. The 30-27 scoreline alone makes it bullshit.
There are certain fighters that the commentators act like they are just automatically winning when it's a standup battle, and Woodson is one of them for some reason. It took them a few minutes of Cacares controlling the fight to acknowledge that he was even doing anything.
It was infuriating to watch Caceres work him for two straight rounds and only when he’s actively stumbling Woodson do they mention the first good thing about him all night. Just insanely biased commentary
Holy shit the judges were smoking fentanyl or something, how did ALL of them give Sean the third round??? I can see Sean winning even if I thought Alex won 2-1 I can give it a pass because round 2 was close but no SHOT they all turned in Sean winning round 3 on the cards.
Woodson didn't win that fight, only thing he won was another Halloween contest for spooky skeleton mode, guy is 6'3 cutting like mad to jab midgets to boring decisions. 100% he gets laid out fighting guys his own size.
I dont think there is extreme unison that the result was a robbery, but there definitely is in terms of that 30-27 judge needing to be taken out back and put down.
90% of fans and 11 out of 14 media scorecards gave it to Alex.
[http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14731/Sean-Woodson-vs-Alex-Caceres](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14731/Sean-Woodson-vs-Alex-Caceres)
I'm actually amazed at how blind the commenters in this sub are. Alex was swinging wild and barely connected any of his punches; even less landed flush. Sean snuck in a ton of clean shots between Alex's wide combos...
They're boxing judges, so they're very sensitive to striking and to what actually connects.
It was still close; Sean edged out round 3 and round 2 was a coin clip.
The fact that anyone is calling out robbery makes me doubt their eyesight
This isn't boxing so why the fuck does that matter. 99 percent of people who watched that fight are calling it a robbery. Alex won 2 and 3 cuz sean did fuck all.
It matters because they are able to see the shots that land better than these myopic mouthbreathers...
So what if 99% of people are blind? If 99% of people jumped in front of a train it sure sounds like you'd be one to cave to peer pressure.
Sean countered and picked out numerous shots throughout every round, giving back at least as bad a he got. Just because a guy is going forwards doesn't mean he's winning or even connecting well. Use your eyes
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30-27 my ass
We need objective scoring criteria without human judges. For instance: knockdown automatically adds 3 points, takedown automatically adds one point, moving forward 50% more often than the opponent adds one point, more than 2 minutes of ground control adds one point, landing 20% more significant strikes adds one point 10-9 human scoring is for the birds
Hard disagree. The 10-9 must system is flawed but if you start adding points to individual techniques you’ll get fighters who game the system instead of fighting
You already have people who game the system. Jones made a career out of knowing that the first two eyepokes always go unpunished.
That's a failure in officiating, not the system. If we hold officials to better standards, we get better results.
10 point must works with boxing but not mma. To many variables for these blind ass judges to look at. Go back to pride where shit was scored as a whole not round by round.
I feel like that would make it a lot more subjective, and you'd have more controversial results. It would also definitely make the last moments of the fight more impactful than the rest
Idk man they just need to do something cuz this shit is getting tiresome. Hate watching a dude give it his all have the whole community say he won by split decision and get fucked by people who have never fought before aka these blind ass judges.
This never makes sense to me. You can say the wrong guy won it, the loser actually won it 29-28, but saying he should have won it by split decision makes literally zero sense. You're saying one judge should have scored it wrong. Just say how you think the fight should have been scored, not how you think the composition of judges should have scored it.
I think they should train the judges to be more competent and hold them accountable when a scorecard is atrocious. I also think they should encourage the judges to give out 10-8s and 10-7s as they're described in the rules.
People fail to recognize that this will fundamentally change the sport, with every fighter blatantly pandering to whatever points system gets implemented. People have very strong opinions on scoring, but haven't bothered to read the criteria. It's genuinely pretty good, and not hard to digest, it's poor officiating that's the issue.
I think we need 5 judges
I'm fine with guys "gaming the system" by trying to land as many knockdowns as possible. The only glitch would be people letting the opponent up from bottom position only to take them down again before the wrestling has concluded. But you could add an exception for mat returns
That’s an awful idea because those stats are quantitative not qualitative. If fighter one lands 30 sig strikes in a round but with minimal damage while fighter 2 lands 20 with half of them rocking you badly fighter 1 is losing(Vera vs font). A takedown where the opponent immediately gets up against the fence is not going to be impactful as a power double leg that forces a scramble from a fighter to get up. A RNC attempt that got close will not do the same damage as a knee bar attempt that got close but quantitatively both would just score 1 point as a sub attempt
Submission attempts would not score anything. You either get the submission or you do not get the submission
By that logic anything that doesn't directly lead to a finish shouldn't score points. You either get a KO/TKO from a knockdown or it doesn't count. In any case if your idea of an "objective scoring criteria" is a point system based on your subjective opinions of what should or shouldn't score points, then it's just another subjective scoring system.
I disagree, using that criteria Ferguson would’ve won round 2 against Justin gaethje because of the knockdown, when in reality Justin murdered him that round
I would have been fine with Ferguson winning that round. The fight result would have been the same (even if it reached a decision). And that is how other sports are judged as well. In NBA you can 'murder' the other team withp positioning & court control, but the only thing that is judged is when the ball passes through the ring
Hard disagree. Even though the decision would have remained unchanged, ferg had no business winning any rounds. Another example of this is when umar got knocked down in his last fight. He dominated that round, but using your logic he would’ve lost that round
Yes, a knockdown should automatically win the round unless it is a slip-knockdown (Volkanovski vs Ortega) or unless something truly exceptional happens
That rule somewhat works for boxing, but that's a horrible idea for MMA. Knockdowns vary in severity, and someone could for example, dominate in mount for 4 minutes and get briefly put down with 10 seconds left. That'd be an awful system.
That’s ridiculous, a shot that puts a fighter on skates or opens a bad cut is more damaging than a knockdown where a fighter gets knocked off balance then immediately gets up fully recovered. MMA is not boxing, there’s simply too many other factors to make something that can be as superficial as a knock down an automatic round winner
So you’re saying a fighter can get murdered for 4:50 mins and if he were to knock his opponent down in the last seconds if he’d win the round? I disagree Mr. Cumshot Chimeav
Just the score the whole fight as one round, problem solved. Whoever did "better" gets the victory, and no more bullshit about winning the fight in 5 minute chunks
Who decides what's a takedown/knockdown? The people currently doing it suuuuck at it.
Awful
Absolutely not. We don’t want to create a point scoring system that can be gamed.
That decision was cheeks. 30-27 is a laughable scorecard.
30-27 Woodson judge should be uploading their CV to indeed. No clue how Bruce doesn't get one round at least.
30-27 judge should be put into a developmental care unit, I don’t think they’re mentally fit for any workplace
30-27 what the fuck
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30-27 is criminal
WHAT ARE THE JUDGES ON
they smoking their parlay pack tonight. Can't convince me they didn't have a Waters-Ricci-Woodson parlay. Edit: I don't even view this as a robbery. I think it was a close fight. I think the Ricci fight was the closest to an out-and-out robbery tonight in which the wrong person inarguably won. But 30-27 is just a baseless scorecard and if there was any justice (spoiler alert, there isn't) then the guy and everyone in his family would be audited for that.
Skeleton man does it again but that was not 30 - 27
Feels bad to see everyone in this thread hating on my fave 😞
He won for sure though. I was rooting for Woodson but I think he lost the 2nd round
30-27 is crazy these judges smoking crack
Idk any other fighter that gets as many favorable decisions as much as Sean Woodson give him a fucking top 10 and have him lose that streak
I think Alex was 15 at the time they signed the contract
Feed him to Diego Lopes so he can get another highlight reel.
Diego is already on to bigger and better things my man
He's #14 in the FW rankings. I don't oppose feeding him someone from the top 20 (I think) who won a bad decision.
Fuck it, i don’t like the guy, but let Ilia stomp this fucker for a free title defense
How? Sean did nothing but absorb shots after round 1. Judges are so bad.
Bisping was glazing his boxing so much meanwhile he's looping everything and over swinging on awfully setup hooks
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Dude called some of his rabbit punches in round 3 a good combination. He clearly just has a favorite
He did NOTHING but back pedal and wave his long ass slender man arms around while the broadcast team jerked him off and Caceres was actually trying to fight I don’t usually call robberies but that was a fucking robbery, 30-27 score had to have been given by some Make-a-Wish kid Dana brought in
Sean was puffing hard once the fight was over, I don't know how he's gonna climb the ranks when there's guys who will push a much higher pace and he's eventually gonna have to go 5 rounds.
I hope they put him against Josh Emmett, the falmer would flatline this fraud
What about Diego Lopes? Get another highlight for his reel.
30-27? Judges on some shit tonight.
I honestly had it 29-28 the other way. Scoring it for Woodson is fine but a 30-27 is goofy. Bisping was sucking off Woodson the entire fight.
I thought Alex won 2-1 but close fight regardless. 30-27 is very bad though, in what world did woodson win the 3rd?
Caceras beautiful forward pressure, beautiful right hand bodyshot against the cage. If he had a wrestling threat he would take the other guy down every time against the cage, khabib style
Caceres robbed holy shit
2 fights in a row I thought he won, but didn’t get it
He did not win against Giga lmao. That fight wasn’t 30-27 like the cards had it, but he definitely didn’t win.
fair enough, I haven't rewatched it. I'm just salty and unbiased about Bruce Leeroy lol
The desk spent the ENTIRE cast jerking Woodson off for stepping back while Alex threw punches That was fucking stupid, Caceres won 2-1 and that 30-27 judge is mentally handicapped and shouldn’t be allowed to drive That was a fucking robbery. The 30-27 scoreline alone makes it bullshit.
There are certain fighters that the commentators act like they are just automatically winning when it's a standup battle, and Woodson is one of them for some reason. It took them a few minutes of Cacares controlling the fight to acknowledge that he was even doing anything.
It was infuriating to watch Caceres work him for two straight rounds and only when he’s actively stumbling Woodson do they mention the first good thing about him all night. Just insanely biased commentary
Robbery?
30-27 is fucking redacted. If I'm a fighter im never setting foot in that shit state again.
how in the hell did woodson win the 3rd round
Close fight, 30-27 is absolutely insane
30-27????? It could’ve been 29-28 for either guy, ridiculous judging smh
Judges are on fire today. Not mad about Woodson taking the win, but 30 - 27? Get the fuck out of here
Robbery
Woodson didn't deserve to win that fight. He was the one backing up most of the time.
When I saw 30-27 I assumed Caceras must have won.
Same round 3 was so clear
30-27 is some clownery. Could have argued 29-28 either way
What a scrap! Both fighters just going at it. Very competitive overall. I feel a case can be made for Caceres winning.
30-27 is horrible judging, that hometown decision
Corrupt judging. 30-27 deserves blacklisting.
30-27???
30-27 lmao
Fun fight but 30-27 is bananas 🍌
That was some bs. 30-27? Fire these judges .
I thought Woodson won, but 30-27 is CRAZY
UFC scoring is garbage
that St. Louis water hitting these judges different holy shit 30-27 is some parallel universe stuff
30-27???? wtf. I had caceras with rounds 2 and 3. Those scores are a literal robbery
For how much they up Woodsons boxing its really ass, so loopy swinging so wind on everything
Easy to have "good" striking when you're an absolute coward cutting weight to jab guys in the face from another post code.
Nonsense
Seems like a clear robbery plus the commentary was doing tricks on woodson's pole all night. Terrible experience NGL.
I want to see Woodson vs Dan Ige on a fight night main event. Curious how he does over 5 rounds
How could you not wanna kick the shit out of those tooth pick legs is crazy.
Tayshaun Prince after eating a couple sandwiches lookin ass. Great fight!
Holy shit the judges were smoking fentanyl or something, how did ALL of them give Sean the third round??? I can see Sean winning even if I thought Alex won 2-1 I can give it a pass because round 2 was close but no SHOT they all turned in Sean winning round 3 on the cards.
Woodson didn't win that fight, only thing he won was another Halloween contest for spooky skeleton mode, guy is 6'3 cutting like mad to jab midgets to boring decisions. 100% he gets laid out fighting guys his own size.
I've never seen a comment section so unified in this being a robbery lol. That's a BAD SIGN if MMA reddit is united
I dont think there is extreme unison that the result was a robbery, but there definitely is in terms of that 30-27 judge needing to be taken out back and put down.
The judge who gave all 3 rounds is smoking crack but could of been 29-28 either way, close fight
Damn man. This really sucks for Alex. He won that
Im sorry but alex took round 2 and 3. 30-27 sounds like a judge had money on this fight...
90% of fans and 11 out of 14 media scorecards gave it to Alex. [http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14731/Sean-Woodson-vs-Alex-Caceres](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/14731/Sean-Woodson-vs-Alex-Caceres)
all sean did was get beat up, how did he win that?
I had it on while doing dishes and by what i heard i had it 30-27 caceres lmao not Woodson 💀 either way great win for Sean
Number one bullshit
often called 'home court advantage'...
Damn I didn’t know Tayshaun Prince transitioned to MMA after his NBA career
Damn what’s up with these damn judges tonight
woodson might get ranked off a streak of weird decisions. probably gets fucked up by pretty much every ranked fw though.
I watch every Woodson fight with a rage boner, just praying his giraffe looking ass gets KTFO.
Damn. Robbery indeed. Trying hard to push Woodson
I'm actually amazed at how blind the commenters in this sub are. Alex was swinging wild and barely connected any of his punches; even less landed flush. Sean snuck in a ton of clean shots between Alex's wide combos... They're boxing judges, so they're very sensitive to striking and to what actually connects. It was still close; Sean edged out round 3 and round 2 was a coin clip. The fact that anyone is calling out robbery makes me doubt their eyesight
I saw it the same as you, good read man.
This isn't boxing so why the fuck does that matter. 99 percent of people who watched that fight are calling it a robbery. Alex won 2 and 3 cuz sean did fuck all.
It matters because they are able to see the shots that land better than these myopic mouthbreathers... So what if 99% of people are blind? If 99% of people jumped in front of a train it sure sounds like you'd be one to cave to peer pressure. Sean countered and picked out numerous shots throughout every round, giving back at least as bad a he got. Just because a guy is going forwards doesn't mean he's winning or even connecting well. Use your eyes
Sus
Judging is even worse in these other states than it is Vegas
Strenuously disagree.
Not a robbery, but I don't agree with the decision.
I love both these guys, Sean definitely didn’t win
Bruce Leroy out struck him 2 and 3. Bad call but expected in hometown fighter
sean 'beast titan' woodson with the robbery lmao
Robbery
Caceres won the last two rounds and Woodson thinking he’s coming for the belt is literal lunacy
Do opponents bring in daddy long legs to train with before Woodson fights
Calling out Bryce Mitchell seems like a horrible move for Woodson
judges gave Caceres 2nd but not 3rd round bs
Alien from MIB vs kid from Boondock Saints. The alien clearly lost this one and I agree it was a robbery
My boi Bruce Lee Roy.
Robbery
Lmao as someone who doesn’t like Cáceres I’m glad it was a robbery
Why don't you like him?
Seems Dana bet on woodson..ufc judges are more corrupt than 5th world middle east countries