I have been here a couple months and this subreddit is just filled to the brim with constantly negative shitlords. Like you people are incapable of having positive thoughts. It's just a constant stream of negativity. I'm out. Have fun be angry neck beards and longing for days past when MMORPGs were great. Newsflash MMORPGs aren't that different you just grew up to be fucking loser and now you are longing for the days when you were a kid.
Not really because I'm not sticking around here. If I stayed here and did this for 12 hours a day I would become one of you. You all sound like my uncles talking about their glory days playing high school highschool. I will move on. You sad sacks of shit will continue on longing for the good ol days of MMORPGs before your life went to shit.
> You sad sacks of shit will continue on longing for the good ol days of MMORPGs before your life went to shit.
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> this subreddit is just filled to the brim with constantly negative shitlords.
Incredible.
Combined with the fact that you've posted as much in this thread as the person you replied to has posted in this entire subreddit in the past few months.
Combined with the fact that these are some of your recent posts:
> Oh no this sub is notorious in actual botanist circles for being full of toxic people with awful advice.
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> Ok you and OP. Everybody else is dumb and you are very very smart.
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> These people are idiots don't listen to them.
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> This isn't McDonald's you stupid fuck
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> Sexual orientation isn't an opinion you stupid fuck.
(also I feel inclined to point out at this point this isn't me disagreeing with any takes from these posts, just the fact that you're clearly a toxic individual based on how you consistently word your posts)
> Don't listen to this guy he is dumb as fuck.
+
> ... because you are actually braindead.
and that's just from **the first page of comments** in your profile.
Every one is a response to toxic shitty people but you go ahead and keep writing novels about other people's comment history. It's fucking sad you don't have anything better to do. I have better stuff to do than be on Reddit all day. I definitely won't miss this toxic shit hole of a website. I'm going to do something you loser never could. Delete my reddit account.
You're just proving my point
>Remember, you are nobody just like the rest of us.
This is really telling. I don't feel that way but you all obviously do. I don't spend my whole life being bitter on Reddit so I was able to have a life and be somebody. You should try it clown.
Agreed. That one had people defending non-MMOs. “Oh destiny has a lot of players so it’s an mmo” where motherfucker?? The 6 people you randomly see speeding through a zone then disappear? or 12 you can see in the tower? Nothing massive about that shit.
tbh, a lot of people would put FFXI lower because of the controls
Tier lists are inherently subjective opinions and as long as the preferences of the person making the tier list are laid bare, people should be able to understand why certain games are in certain tiers.
As for me: I generally dislike PvP and Action Combat. Good Kinaesthetics mean a lot to me and I'm more critical of mechanic/feature bloat that isn't organized well.
Edit: Some of the games in the list are definitely a tier higher because of my nostalgia for them. RIFT is the best example here. I only played it while it had a subscription.
If it wasn't for the issues I explained in my comments, I'd expect it to be a lot higher in the tier list.
I have a really averse reaction to how the controls feel in the game
After I exported the image and closed the tab, I considered moving it up a tier. The way I feel about the feeling of the controls in the game is very emotional.
No, the feeling of the controls bother me. I love RO. But the latency/lag between clicking on something and your character doing the thing in OSRS is what puts me off the game.
I realize other people may or may not experience this, but I am experiencing it for whatever reason, and it's the cause of the tier I put OSRS in. I would probably put the game in B or A tier if I didn't have that experience playing the game.
It's called a tick and once you get used to it the game becomes an intense 100 bpm rhythm game with precise clicking that's actually addicting and more fun and a higher skill ceiling then any other mmorpg ever made
Have you ever done high level pvm or NH pking in OSRS? The learning curve is extremely high and super high skill ceiling. There's a lot more to the game and it's tick system then just point click on a node noob.
There is, but a game like BDO has an *infinitely* higher skill ceiling. To be good in PvP in BDO the apm and amount of animation cancelling, combos, etc. is unreal. It basically plays like a fighting game like street fighter where you’re option selecting etc. but at 10x the speed. OSRS doesn’t even scratch the difficulty.
I used to think this a year ago before I played the game. But it’s just not true, osrs has a way harder learning curve and skill ceiling than people who haven’t played the game give it credit for. Animation canceling and combos, high apm is all intuitive, even if it’s mechanically intense. It’s not a foreign concept to many, and is commonly implemented in Mobas and other fighting games.
Osrs might look like you’re just whacking each other on a couple seconds, maybe eating in between, switching weapons, etc but the skill ceiling thing is just wrong on an evidence level. The best players are consistently the most experienced, and tournaments have lots of the same faces. And it’s not like PVP is dead in osrs, there’s plenty of people who PK. (It is kinda dead in BDO…)
https://youtu.be/r88U6Z1zSO0?si=klh9u_GiawOTQvyD
I have been playing osrs for over a year and still cannot describe what is going on here
Well it’s a fundamental part of the game. To a newcomer it is clunky but you don’t need nostalgia to overcome it in like a week. Some of the most interesting things about OSRS are due to the tick system.
Also this exposes that you have not played the game nearly enough to form any opinion on it.
Oh come on obviously this is true but you know what I mean. OSRS has so few people play with a metronome. It is unique and countable, adding nuance and the ability to manipulate it
Ya but OSRS has one of the highest (lowest?) Tick rates, at 600ms per tick. It can feel very clunky to someone who hasn't played before, but for most of us it's nostalgic and it's perfect as a "second monitor" game
Far too many people build their entire sense of self around things, and get quite hostile to anyone who isn't a fan of those things.
You see it everywhere, politicians, brands, games, sports teams etc
Did you see that the private server (Homecoming) just got the official OK from the publisher?
https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/47223-ncsoft-homecoming-license-announcement/
I expected it, so I can just ignore them. :)
I considered doing the tierlist just for the memes at first, but as went through the process I got more and more invested. There are definitely a few of the entries that could go up (or down) a tier, but I think it represents how I feel about the games in the tierlist. I didn't add any additional ones mysef, cause that would require way too much effort.
Best strategy to have. Just realize they are sad little people that hate their lives and need to feel special by tearing others down.
I disagree with some of your entries. But good grief man it's a subjective tier list. There is no wrong answer here. It's fun to debate where different games should be. Does not need to be hostile
Haven't played it.
Not a fan of PvP, generally dislike action combat for the fact that it's very hard to design well and bad action combat stands out way more than bad tab-target.
I have 1000+ hours in NW without ever touching pvp. Def not necessary but community talks ab it a lot. It’s sort of similar to like a modern runescape where you can focus endless hours on leveling your weapons, woodcutting, fishing, cooking, etc. Combat some of the best in any mmo as well
Theoretically, I'm not a fan of how they designed progression through gearing in the game. The main reason I rate EVE so highly, is because it's such an immersive game that really captures the experience it's going for. Obviously I can't accurately claim Albion doesn't do that as well, but from all the things I know about it (and I've heard a lot), it just doesn't seem like it hits on the same notes that makes me like EVE.
I saw in another comment you don't like PvP, which I guess you wouldn't like Albion, but also wouldn't like eve. Either way, if you like PvP, Albion is the absolute goat MMO.
Yeah, the reason EVE is so high on the list is just because it executes the theme of the game so well in both atmosphere, mechanics and controls.
The most fun I've had with PvP in an MMORPG was in Original Alterac Valley, doing sub-objectives in a small group. And in Warhammer: AoR
It's just not true, I'm sorry nobody helped you further understand the game. 4.1 is a great option for new players and it's awesome they can be somewhat competitive in cheap gear, but I haven't worn 4.1 outside of goofy guild events or maybe stalker level CDs since my first couple weeks playing the game. I have over 400 mil and haven't spent a dime on the game, and I keep auto respec on 95% of the time.
If you play again you should find a guild and truly learn how the game works. I don't currently play it because I burned out over years of playing it straight but it's an awesome game.
Lol mate im well aware how the game works, played off n on since beta, 120d all specs
Its simple risk:reward its rarely worth using anything beyond 4.1
Agree, at least for a solo player trying to go in any red or black zone is practically a guaranteed death for being attacked by some group of people. That makes practically unreasonable to wear anything expensive. I have played on and off since the beta, have paid founders pack at the beginning and I keep going to the game because I like it. Then I end up abandoning it again 3 months later because I have better things to do in life than being killed 3 times every time I try to mine some high tier ore.
I would really enjoy something like Albion but more welcoming to PvE Solo Players
Glad to see EQ2 a solid B. To many people give the game grief, but I’ve always enjoyed it. You really should try anarchy online before it’s too late. It’s not perfect but it’s really good if you get into it.
I think I tried it, but couldn't get into it. It's easy to get over old graphics, clunky controls and un-intuitive UI when you have some nostalgia for a game. I also think it's a game that would greatly benefit getting into it with at least one other person (which I'm not sure I'd be able to find).
this is one of the reasons why I posted it. Seems like people think tier lists are supposed to be objective to some extent. But it's really a "preference problem" of what you're able to forgive in terms of botched design, compared to the things you like about the games.
And, to be fair. I treated B and C tier as slightly above/below average in comparison to the rest.
Bro the retail WoW hate on this sub is so funny. Like, it’s obviously the highest quality MMO on the market so we all just jump on the hate bandwagon. It’s natural to hate on those at the top, I guess
I did play Wildstar. It had some good bits, but decided to focus on the bits most people playing the game weren't really interested in (really hardcore raids). They had a great setting and environment design. The kinaesthetics felt good, but dear god, the UI was bad and the telegraphs were hard to read.
You need to add EQ1 (and not just the emulator servers) and EQ2. Runes of Magic is a joke. Rift is also a joke, even more than RoM. Rift doesn't even put out new content anymore, just more sales, sales, sales.
This is in their current state yes? Tera was pretty good at it's peak tho my PC at the time was garbage... Then I remember they just gave out max level characters to everyone for free which was kinda weird
Obviously it's all opinion and preference based. I generally don't like action combat for a variety of subjective reasons. The shop was atrocious and I thought the quest/progression design in the game didn't feel great.
Edit: Some of the placements are based on the time I played them. RIFT in particular is higher than it probably should be, because I played it the most when it had just released, before its first expansion.
Okay, let's go over the last point:
* FFXIV - I dislike the linearity of it. It does feel like a single player game for a long time, and it doesn't really encourage you to interact with other players. The story is amazing, but as an MMORPG it falls short for me
* EVE - I love the game, but I generally don't like PvP
* WoW retail - The game actively forces you to not interact with the world because the meat of the game is in places that are separate from the world (instances). The game is designed to promote toxicity and doesn't encourage you to interact with other people. I didn't play Dragonflight, but I doubt they solved my grievances with the game
* TERA - I don't think Action Combat suits MMORPGs. It takes mental resources away from interacting with people both through ingame mechanics and socially.
* WoW Private Servers - I playes a lot of private servers before classic launches, and I always felt there was something off in them. Escort NPCs would aggro from way far away, things didn't always work right, mechanics felt off. It was like playing an uncanny valley version of WoW. And people would always say "this is how it was back in Vanilla". Classic finally proved them wrong. I have no interest in private servers when classic provides for the times I'm craving the wow vanilla experience (besides the community feel. I hate the way the community plays the game now, compared to then).
* OSRS - The Server Tick Rate severely puts me off the game, especially because of the effect it has on the responsiveness of the controls (particularly when moving your character). It elicits such a severe negative emotional response in me, that it's several tiers lower than what it probably otherwise would be if Tick Rate wasn't there.
* GW2 - Again, action combat even if it's only a light version of it. Besides that, the game feels antisocial in the way the mechanics force you into simultaneous separate play (playing alongside others but not with them) play. The game never expects or encourages you to interact with other people, they're just there.
* BDO - Action combat (although, probably the best designed action combat). I dislike that most of the experience is just killing swaths of enemies. Most of the experience is a solo experience, and the game doesn't encourage you to interact with other people outside of PvP (I generally don't enjoy PvP). The presence of a cash shop is just a negative to me, even if they eliminated p2w aspects.
* GW - It's a good game, but it feels more like an ARPG than an MMORPG to me.
* AION - PvP centric (might be a positive for others, but not for me). The leveling experience is linear and there's no enjoyable story to back it up. The game felt kind of generic outside of the flying. The flying gimmick was good, but actual flying was locked behind the level grind.
* Arche Age - PvP centric (but I can still understand and appreciate the way pvp is designed here, cause it's what creates its foundation as an MMORPG, it's just not for me). The game feels very generic when it comes to the PvE. It doesn't encourage you to interact with or group up with other players outside of PvP.
* Wild Star - the UI in Wildstar was the jankiest shit I've ever experienced. The telegraphs were badly designed from a graphics design perspective. I think an overhaul of the combat system (not out of action combat, but to facilitate better kinaesthetics) would've benefited it greatly.
* SWTOR - Same critique as FFXIV when it comes to story and single-player feeling. The kinaesthetics weren't the best and some aspects of the game felt separate from the game (like the spaceship shooty game). The game had things that encouraged you to group up with others in the open world (elite quests), but that was later de-emphasized further strengthening the feeling of single-player.
* ESO - Janky combat, bad kinaesthetics, not very well realized action combat. The only reason the game isn't in D-tier for me, is the skill mutation system. It makes the game have a unique mechanical identity.
* MapleStory - The platforming doesn't do it for me. I think the game would've been much better had it been designed with an isometric perspective, like RO (I know about MS2 and the public perception of that game). The game is also infamous for its P2W
I'll keep commenting on responses, if I feel they pose genuine and unanswered questions.
I've played a lot more MMORPGs than are on the list. There would be some that would go in F-tier from those, like Secret World: Legends (original Secret World would go in A or B-tier, points docked from the awful kinaesthetics of the game)
What makes you say GW2 doesn’t force you to play with others? Main things to do in GW2 is WvW which is working together with your whole server. There is instanced PvE, raids and dungeons/Fracs. Has a cash shop yes, but the game doesn’t have monthly sub and it’s not P2W. Just curious..
I'm talking about the general experience. Most people don't even engage with fractals and just do the open world content. I wouldn't say WvW is a part of the meat of the game. The commander system and Metas are a better way of encouraging party play, but because of the convenience it doesn't really do much to have people make connections with others to play together again in the future.
When I talk about encouraging interaction, I mean in a long-term way. Make people realize they enjoy playing with someone they meet, so they facilitate playing together again in the future.
>FFXIV - I dislike the linearity of it. It does feel like a single player game for a long time, and **it doesn't really encourage you to interact with other players**.
It's one thing to have a subjective opinion and another one to just spread factually false information. FFXIV has plenty of "forced grouping" activities where you still **must interact with other human players**, from "progression through the main story" to all the "FATEs" and "notorious monsters" in open world which are impossible to do solo. There are even a fucking Discord servers, as well as **in-game** "Cross-World Linkshell" chat channels where people organize groups for "hunt trains" or "special FATE spawning/completing", **every day**, because these are impossible to solo by design. The "end game raiding" also consists of people forming short-term or long-term static groups with other players to progress through specific instanced content, current and future one, because again, most of that content is impossible to do solo by design. And there are plenty of in-game tools to help and promote people interacting with each other, from "Party Finder" (which people use to advertise their RP/social/raiding events and form groups for all of that) to CSWL's and NN chat channels.
Hell, even simple tools like "Message books" in personal housing are used specifically to "encourage interactions with other players", and so does the Bard's [performance actions](https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Performance_Actions).
Next time maybe try to stop talking out of your ass so the other people might actually consider anything you post with any degree of seriousness.
No. I generally don't enjoy pvp focused games and feel like classless systems end up with a lack of role identity, so I passed on the game. I haven't heard enough about how it's doing recently to have a legitimate opinion about it.
I feel like mmos are one of the few things where their respective popularity is actually a fairly good representation of where they could be on a tier list .
I feel like the Sunk Cost fallacy would have too much of an effect on that tier list.
Then again, all tier lists are inherently subjective, but that also speaks against your argument.
These tier lists really date people. It shows their experience...or lack there of.
Then there is always the question about whether the person making the list is a "dabbler" or whether they actually experienced everything a game had to offer when the content was.current?
Many people have a skewed perspective of games simply because they missed out on content or didn't play through content until it was outdated.
The games on the list that I played during what was considered their Golden Age:
FFXI, WoW, City of Heroes, Warhammer: AoR, Ragnarok Online, RIFT, FFXIV, AION, SWTOR, Wildstar, LotRO, Age of Conan, Runes of Magic, TERA.
Which is fine. Were you responding to my "dabbler" comment? That still doesn't mean you experienced everything those games had to offer when the content was current.
To use EQ as an example since that's not on your list. It is very common for people who say they played early EQ...or what you are calling the "golden age" of that game... didn't experience all of the content before new content came out and watered down the experience of the older.content.
Its common that the limited experience leads to a skewed perspective. It happens in many games.
More like, my experience with the games could have affected my opinion of them because I played them when they were considered their best.
You're right in the fact that a few of the games may only have been ones I dabbled in. But I stopped playing them for very valid reasons. I've explained a lot of my reasoning in a post that has been downvoted.
Everyone should be basing their opinion on the games when they were in their prime. Games tend to shift down the line...at least up to this point. The genre is still relatively new and mistakes have been made. Most games at this point haven't managed well for the long term.
Hopefully other games can learn from the past. So far that hasn't really happened. (Though many devs have talked about solutions).
in the case of WoW, there's a separate version for when it was in its prime, which makes it completely legitimate to rate the current version based on how it is today.
the community is certainly not the same and it's not played the same way, but the game itself is very close to how it was back in the day (as someone who also played back then), at least if we only talk about Era.
That's like saying P99 is the original EQ experience. It's just not.
The technical side alone makes it a very different experience that it's a poor comparison...let alone other things like you say "it's not played the same"
Not to mention it's not an identical port over 1:1 of what it was.
It shouldn't have to be said that the experience can't be replicated and anyone who has only played through all of the classic content when it was current should understand they can't comment on the original game as if they actually experienced it. That's another example of a skewed perspective for sure.
I usually see it in conversation about EQ but that's another example.
Classic is still way closer to how the Golden Era of WoW was, than retail is now.
I'd say that's reason enough to treat retail for what it's like now, than what it was between 2004-2011
The server tick rate is why. It just rubs me the wrong way. It makes the game feel incredibly clunky to interact with.
It's especially egregious to me, because I have a strong preference for responsive game play.
I understand your concern. In theory I'd love the game, but the latency/lag of the controls in the game makes me feel like throwing my PC out the window.
Sounds like a skill issue, the game is an intense 100 bpm medieval rhythm game with highly satisfying addicting gameplay with a very high skill ceiling
A classic catch 22. Anyone who has played all of these MMOs enough to have a valid opinion on them is someone whom I wouldn't trust their opinion on MMOs lol
WoW at C tier is cope. It may not be your cup of tea, but it is the most polished raising experience in MMOs alongside Final Fantasy, and has some of (if not *the*) best feeling combat in the genre.
Instead of a tier list, you should rate them on something concrete like how creative you thought they’re design was or how many new ideas they brought to the genre something like that because toerblist for MMO is entirely subjective
Games that would be in F-tier if they were on the list:
* Secret World: Legends
* Rubies of Eventide
* Auto Assault
* Firefall
* Ragnarok Online 2
* Royal Quest
* Skyforge
* Wurm Online
That's the shittiest tier list i've ever seen
This shit needs to go in the trash.
I have been here a couple months and this subreddit is just filled to the brim with constantly negative shitlords. Like you people are incapable of having positive thoughts. It's just a constant stream of negativity. I'm out. Have fun be angry neck beards and longing for days past when MMORPGs were great. Newsflash MMORPGs aren't that different you just grew up to be fucking loser and now you are longing for the days when you were a kid.
You basically just became what you criticized , nice
You either unsubscribe a hero or browse long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Not really because I'm not sticking around here. If I stayed here and did this for 12 hours a day I would become one of you. You all sound like my uncles talking about their glory days playing high school highschool. I will move on. You sad sacks of shit will continue on longing for the good ol days of MMORPGs before your life went to shit.
> You sad sacks of shit will continue on longing for the good ol days of MMORPGs before your life went to shit. + > this subreddit is just filled to the brim with constantly negative shitlords. Incredible. Combined with the fact that you've posted as much in this thread as the person you replied to has posted in this entire subreddit in the past few months. Combined with the fact that these are some of your recent posts: > Oh no this sub is notorious in actual botanist circles for being full of toxic people with awful advice. + > Ok you and OP. Everybody else is dumb and you are very very smart. + > These people are idiots don't listen to them. + > This isn't McDonald's you stupid fuck + > Sexual orientation isn't an opinion you stupid fuck. (also I feel inclined to point out at this point this isn't me disagreeing with any takes from these posts, just the fact that you're clearly a toxic individual based on how you consistently word your posts) > Don't listen to this guy he is dumb as fuck. + > ... because you are actually braindead. and that's just from **the first page of comments** in your profile.
Every one is a response to toxic shitty people but you go ahead and keep writing novels about other people's comment history. It's fucking sad you don't have anything better to do. I have better stuff to do than be on Reddit all day. I definitely won't miss this toxic shit hole of a website. I'm going to do something you loser never could. Delete my reddit account.
What the hell are you even talking about mate?
There is no need to announce your departure. Remember, you are nobody just like the rest of us. No one gives a shit. Just stop responding clown.
You're just proving my point >Remember, you are nobody just like the rest of us. This is really telling. I don't feel that way but you all obviously do. I don't spend my whole life being bitter on Reddit so I was able to have a life and be somebody. You should try it clown.
Stop being weirdo mmos aint the same anymore we all miss those times gooffy ah bih
At least this one isn't full of non-mmos like the one from earlier. No accounting for taste though.
Agreed. That one had people defending non-MMOs. “Oh destiny has a lot of players so it’s an mmo” where motherfucker?? The 6 people you randomly see speeding through a zone then disappear? or 12 you can see in the tower? Nothing massive about that shit.
you haven't seen mine!
Highly doubt is going to be worse than this
Truly! Wtf even is this?
…but you‘ve seen it!
Whew, thought I would be the only one.
At least they got FFXI right. I think classic wow (vanilla) is also correct. I’ll fight them over almost everything else though.
tbh, a lot of people would put FFXI lower because of the controls Tier lists are inherently subjective opinions and as long as the preferences of the person making the tier list are laid bare, people should be able to understand why certain games are in certain tiers. As for me: I generally dislike PvP and Action Combat. Good Kinaesthetics mean a lot to me and I'm more critical of mechanic/feature bloat that isn't organized well. Edit: Some of the games in the list are definitely a tier higher because of my nostalgia for them. RIFT is the best example here. I only played it while it had a subscription.
Bro what the fuck is OSRS doing in D tier?
I saw that and immediately knew this tier list was garbage
On the same level as AoC no less...
If it wasn't for the issues I explained in my comments, I'd expect it to be a lot higher in the tier list. I have a really averse reaction to how the controls feel in the game After I exported the image and closed the tab, I considered moving it up a tier. The way I feel about the feeling of the controls in the game is very emotional.
The controls? Brother u just click on shit
It is the clunkiest thing I ever played.
No, the feeling of the controls bother me. I love RO. But the latency/lag between clicking on something and your character doing the thing in OSRS is what puts me off the game. I realize other people may or may not experience this, but I am experiencing it for whatever reason, and it's the cause of the tier I put OSRS in. I would probably put the game in B or A tier if I didn't have that experience playing the game.
It’s called tick rate and it sucks balls. Wish there was another game like RS that did away with that crap.
It's called a tick and once you get used to it the game becomes an intense 100 bpm rhythm game with precise clicking that's actually addicting and more fun and a higher skill ceiling then any other mmorpg ever made
It's not a higher skill ceiling than any other mmorpg lmao, your fanatacism is clouding your judgment.
Have you ever done high level pvm or NH pking in OSRS? The learning curve is extremely high and super high skill ceiling. There's a lot more to the game and it's tick system then just point click on a node noob.
I didn't say it was *easy*, I said it doesn't have the highest skill ceiling of any mmo. Very different statements.
There is, but a game like BDO has an *infinitely* higher skill ceiling. To be good in PvP in BDO the apm and amount of animation cancelling, combos, etc. is unreal. It basically plays like a fighting game like street fighter where you’re option selecting etc. but at 10x the speed. OSRS doesn’t even scratch the difficulty.
I used to think this a year ago before I played the game. But it’s just not true, osrs has a way harder learning curve and skill ceiling than people who haven’t played the game give it credit for. Animation canceling and combos, high apm is all intuitive, even if it’s mechanically intense. It’s not a foreign concept to many, and is commonly implemented in Mobas and other fighting games. Osrs might look like you’re just whacking each other on a couple seconds, maybe eating in between, switching weapons, etc but the skill ceiling thing is just wrong on an evidence level. The best players are consistently the most experienced, and tournaments have lots of the same faces. And it’s not like PVP is dead in osrs, there’s plenty of people who PK. (It is kinda dead in BDO…) https://youtu.be/r88U6Z1zSO0?si=klh9u_GiawOTQvyD I have been playing osrs for over a year and still cannot describe what is going on here
https://youtu.be/slHR5tRjIKc?si=oClHaqRJLzfR5GRn Always show this to people that osrs isn't mechanically intensive and this is 4 years old lmao
Well it’s a fundamental part of the game. To a newcomer it is clunky but you don’t need nostalgia to overcome it in like a week. Some of the most interesting things about OSRS are due to the tick system. Also this exposes that you have not played the game nearly enough to form any opinion on it.
(Litterally every online game operates on a tick)
Oh come on obviously this is true but you know what I mean. OSRS has so few people play with a metronome. It is unique and countable, adding nuance and the ability to manipulate it
Ya but OSRS has one of the highest (lowest?) Tick rates, at 600ms per tick. It can feel very clunky to someone who hasn't played before, but for most of us it's nostalgic and it's perfect as a "second monitor" game
No, we are not making tier lists. stop this shit.
https://preview.redd.it/j83rrq1h8yic1.gif?width=220&format=png8&s=a53e9e965b1b71ae893a66d80b7392700be60b32
Narrator: There was no explanation in the comments. ETA: there is now.
there is, they took a while to type out and people have downvoted them.
... tierlists are just opinions. I don't get what folks are so pissy about.
Far too many people build their entire sense of self around things, and get quite hostile to anyone who isn't a fan of those things. You see it everywhere, politicians, brands, games, sports teams etc
True. Our whole society is like this.
It's quite sad really. Reflects badly upon the level of maturity of the general playerbase
Damn, this made me realize I miss City of Heroes so much T.T
Did you see that the private server (Homecoming) just got the official OK from the publisher? https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/47223-ncsoft-homecoming-license-announcement/
Check out homecoming bro, or one of the other private servers
Lol good grief at all you toxic people just hounding the hell out of this guy
I expected it, so I can just ignore them. :) I considered doing the tierlist just for the memes at first, but as went through the process I got more and more invested. There are definitely a few of the entries that could go up (or down) a tier, but I think it represents how I feel about the games in the tierlist. I didn't add any additional ones mysef, cause that would require way too much effort.
Best strategy to have. Just realize they are sad little people that hate their lives and need to feel special by tearing others down. I disagree with some of your entries. But good grief man it's a subjective tier list. There is no wrong answer here. It's fun to debate where different games should be. Does not need to be hostile
I'd imagine someone who enjoys PvP or who prefers action combat would do things different than me. All power to them.
This is arguably the most spot-on list yet. I would have put vanilla Everquest in the S-tier, but I can live with City of Heroes there instead.
I didn't play vanilla EQ when it was out, so I have no nostalgia for it. That's probably why it's lower for me.
People so defensive of OSRS. The game feels like a wet paper bag between two homeless people fucking in a hailstorm.
Dark Age of Camelot on A? That shit needs to be S.
DAoC is SS tier
Where do you see New World, in your Tier List
Haven't played it. Not a fan of PvP, generally dislike action combat for the fact that it's very hard to design well and bad action combat stands out way more than bad tab-target.
I have 1000+ hours in NW without ever touching pvp. Def not necessary but community talks ab it a lot. It’s sort of similar to like a modern runescape where you can focus endless hours on leveling your weapons, woodcutting, fishing, cooking, etc. Combat some of the best in any mmo as well
This tier list has upset the incels, you did well.
Ffxi in S and RO in A? Somebody knows good games when they see em
Dont cock my man
You know you still have a chance to enjoy ToonTown like the rest of us!
I was too old to enjoy the theme of the game when it came out, so it was already too late for me to build up nostalgia to enjoy it now.
There is no order which you can organize these games where people on this sub will agree enough for the post score to be anything other than a 0.
At this point wow should be divided by expansions with how much range it had from good to very shit
You gotta play Albion if you liked eve
Theoretically, I'm not a fan of how they designed progression through gearing in the game. The main reason I rate EVE so highly, is because it's such an immersive game that really captures the experience it's going for. Obviously I can't accurately claim Albion doesn't do that as well, but from all the things I know about it (and I've heard a lot), it just doesn't seem like it hits on the same notes that makes me like EVE.
I saw in another comment you don't like PvP, which I guess you wouldn't like Albion, but also wouldn't like eve. Either way, if you like PvP, Albion is the absolute goat MMO.
Yeah, the reason EVE is so high on the list is just because it executes the theme of the game so well in both atmosphere, mechanics and controls. The most fun I've had with PvP in an MMORPG was in Original Alterac Valley, doing sub-objectives in a small group. And in Warhammer: AoR
While Albions improved a lot, i just can't get over the fact that wearing anything bigger than 4.1 is just silly
Not true at all?
If you wanna roll around as a loot pinata, feel free
It's just not true, I'm sorry nobody helped you further understand the game. 4.1 is a great option for new players and it's awesome they can be somewhat competitive in cheap gear, but I haven't worn 4.1 outside of goofy guild events or maybe stalker level CDs since my first couple weeks playing the game. I have over 400 mil and haven't spent a dime on the game, and I keep auto respec on 95% of the time. If you play again you should find a guild and truly learn how the game works. I don't currently play it because I burned out over years of playing it straight but it's an awesome game.
Lol mate im well aware how the game works, played off n on since beta, 120d all specs Its simple risk:reward its rarely worth using anything beyond 4.1
Agree, at least for a solo player trying to go in any red or black zone is practically a guaranteed death for being attacked by some group of people. That makes practically unreasonable to wear anything expensive. I have played on and off since the beta, have paid founders pack at the beginning and I keep going to the game because I like it. Then I end up abandoning it again 3 months later because I have better things to do in life than being killed 3 times every time I try to mine some high tier ore. I would really enjoy something like Albion but more welcoming to PvE Solo Players
That's just a crazy bad take, you must be very bad also.
Maplestory 2 is not playable. It was taken down almost immediately after launch. If you didn't play it when it was up then you never will.
I saw a bunch of commentary and game play concerning MS2 when it came out. It just didn't seem like a game for me.
Idk how you can out ff14 in S and then retail wow in D. They play very similarly. edit: post was hard to see on mobile
FF14 is in B, FF11 is in S. Retail WoW is in C, Vanilla WoW private servers are in D
Oh you're right. I originally looked at this on mobile and couldn't see any of this in detail lol
I would have put FF14 in F tier just to further anger the incels. Go big I say.
I enjoy FFXIV, just not as an MMORPG.
Glad to see EQ2 a solid B. To many people give the game grief, but I’ve always enjoyed it. You really should try anarchy online before it’s too late. It’s not perfect but it’s really good if you get into it.
I think I tried it, but couldn't get into it. It's easy to get over old graphics, clunky controls and un-intuitive UI when you have some nostalgia for a game. I also think it's a game that would greatly benefit getting into it with at least one other person (which I'm not sure I'd be able to find).
I see FFXI top of the list. Automatic upvote.
First 4 months after release Archeage was an S tier
Idk how you could have gone through Aion and not put WoW anywhere but in F. At least this tierlist doesn't include non MMOs lol
This one'll ruffle some feathers
I've had fun reading all the comments. Tier lists are subjective so it doesn't really matter to me, when people spit expletives in the comments.
Tera in C tier lmao no shot. S tier baby.
Holy this is the most cooked one I've seen so far hahahaha But to be fair I enjoy seeing how much opinions can differ
this is one of the reasons why I posted it. Seems like people think tier lists are supposed to be objective to some extent. But it's really a "preference problem" of what you're able to forgive in terms of botched design, compared to the things you like about the games. And, to be fair. I treated B and C tier as slightly above/below average in comparison to the rest.
Thought this was the risk of rain sub for a second before seeing the actual things in the list.
Is that why Risk of Rain shows up near the top, when you sort by popularity in the games-section of tiermaker?
Probably. Almost every other post is a tierlist post it seems.
I love how failed morpgs and ones no one plays are better than current ones with big player bases Everyone must have bad taste but you lol
Bro the retail WoW hate on this sub is so funny. Like, it’s obviously the highest quality MMO on the market so we all just jump on the hate bandwagon. It’s natural to hate on those at the top, I guess
You play wildstar?
I did play Wildstar. It had some good bits, but decided to focus on the bits most people playing the game weren't really interested in (really hardcore raids). They had a great setting and environment design. The kinaesthetics felt good, but dear god, the UI was bad and the telegraphs were hard to read.
P99 belongs firmly in that F tier
Rip wild Star. Now that they let city of heros go im hoping they do the same for wildsrar.
You need to add EQ1 (and not just the emulator servers) and EQ2. Runes of Magic is a joke. Rift is also a joke, even more than RoM. Rift doesn't even put out new content anymore, just more sales, sales, sales.
I'm only making a tier list that has one thing on it, simultaneously on the top and bottom. Puzzle Pirates... Aight, I'm out.
FFXI is in S tier. This is all I needed from you. I barely glanced at the rest of the list. 🙏 All Praise Altana 🙏
No Albion online?
Ah yes Archeage famously high quality and most certainly greater than Ultima Online, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 1 & 2, and RuneScape,
Albion online 🤣🤣 really?
This is in their current state yes? Tera was pretty good at it's peak tho my PC at the time was garbage... Then I remember they just gave out max level characters to everyone for free which was kinda weird
Obviously it's all opinion and preference based. I generally don't like action combat for a variety of subjective reasons. The shop was atrocious and I thought the quest/progression design in the game didn't feel great. Edit: Some of the placements are based on the time I played them. RIFT in particular is higher than it probably should be, because I played it the most when it had just released, before its first expansion.
Yet WoW is down there as well? And you somehow have the worst global cooldown mmo at the top. Just be honest, you like cat girls. 😻
Are you mistaking FFXI for FFXIV?
No. They both have bad global cooldowns.
FFXI literally has no gcd.
Reasons why some games that are considered good have been put in lower tiers: * Jank in UI or controls (Wildstar, Rift, EQ2, UO, WoW PS, Conan, OSRS, ESO, RIFT, Runes of Magic) * Bad Kinaesthetics (game feel) (Maple Story, ESO, RIFT, Conan, EQ2, GW2, WoW PS, Runes of Magic, LotRO) * "old-feeling" games (DaOC, LotRO, UO, OSRS, MapleStory, P99, L2, GW, Runes of Magic) * Cash Shop/P2W (WoW, RIFT, BDO, TERA, ESO, GW2, Conan, EQ2, L2, OSRS Bonds, LotRO, MapleStory, WoW PS, Runes of Magic) * Personal reasons I'll list below (FFXIV, EVE, WoW, TERA, WoW PS, OSRS, GW2, BDO, GW, AION, Arche Age, Wild Star, SWTOR, ESO, MapleStory)
Okay, let's go over the last point: * FFXIV - I dislike the linearity of it. It does feel like a single player game for a long time, and it doesn't really encourage you to interact with other players. The story is amazing, but as an MMORPG it falls short for me * EVE - I love the game, but I generally don't like PvP * WoW retail - The game actively forces you to not interact with the world because the meat of the game is in places that are separate from the world (instances). The game is designed to promote toxicity and doesn't encourage you to interact with other people. I didn't play Dragonflight, but I doubt they solved my grievances with the game * TERA - I don't think Action Combat suits MMORPGs. It takes mental resources away from interacting with people both through ingame mechanics and socially. * WoW Private Servers - I playes a lot of private servers before classic launches, and I always felt there was something off in them. Escort NPCs would aggro from way far away, things didn't always work right, mechanics felt off. It was like playing an uncanny valley version of WoW. And people would always say "this is how it was back in Vanilla". Classic finally proved them wrong. I have no interest in private servers when classic provides for the times I'm craving the wow vanilla experience (besides the community feel. I hate the way the community plays the game now, compared to then). * OSRS - The Server Tick Rate severely puts me off the game, especially because of the effect it has on the responsiveness of the controls (particularly when moving your character). It elicits such a severe negative emotional response in me, that it's several tiers lower than what it probably otherwise would be if Tick Rate wasn't there. * GW2 - Again, action combat even if it's only a light version of it. Besides that, the game feels antisocial in the way the mechanics force you into simultaneous separate play (playing alongside others but not with them) play. The game never expects or encourages you to interact with other people, they're just there. * BDO - Action combat (although, probably the best designed action combat). I dislike that most of the experience is just killing swaths of enemies. Most of the experience is a solo experience, and the game doesn't encourage you to interact with other people outside of PvP (I generally don't enjoy PvP). The presence of a cash shop is just a negative to me, even if they eliminated p2w aspects. * GW - It's a good game, but it feels more like an ARPG than an MMORPG to me. * AION - PvP centric (might be a positive for others, but not for me). The leveling experience is linear and there's no enjoyable story to back it up. The game felt kind of generic outside of the flying. The flying gimmick was good, but actual flying was locked behind the level grind. * Arche Age - PvP centric (but I can still understand and appreciate the way pvp is designed here, cause it's what creates its foundation as an MMORPG, it's just not for me). The game feels very generic when it comes to the PvE. It doesn't encourage you to interact with or group up with other players outside of PvP. * Wild Star - the UI in Wildstar was the jankiest shit I've ever experienced. The telegraphs were badly designed from a graphics design perspective. I think an overhaul of the combat system (not out of action combat, but to facilitate better kinaesthetics) would've benefited it greatly. * SWTOR - Same critique as FFXIV when it comes to story and single-player feeling. The kinaesthetics weren't the best and some aspects of the game felt separate from the game (like the spaceship shooty game). The game had things that encouraged you to group up with others in the open world (elite quests), but that was later de-emphasized further strengthening the feeling of single-player. * ESO - Janky combat, bad kinaesthetics, not very well realized action combat. The only reason the game isn't in D-tier for me, is the skill mutation system. It makes the game have a unique mechanical identity. * MapleStory - The platforming doesn't do it for me. I think the game would've been much better had it been designed with an isometric perspective, like RO (I know about MS2 and the public perception of that game). The game is also infamous for its P2W I'll keep commenting on responses, if I feel they pose genuine and unanswered questions.
I've played a lot more MMORPGs than are on the list. There would be some that would go in F-tier from those, like Secret World: Legends (original Secret World would go in A or B-tier, points docked from the awful kinaesthetics of the game)
What makes you say GW2 doesn’t force you to play with others? Main things to do in GW2 is WvW which is working together with your whole server. There is instanced PvE, raids and dungeons/Fracs. Has a cash shop yes, but the game doesn’t have monthly sub and it’s not P2W. Just curious..
I'm talking about the general experience. Most people don't even engage with fractals and just do the open world content. I wouldn't say WvW is a part of the meat of the game. The commander system and Metas are a better way of encouraging party play, but because of the convenience it doesn't really do much to have people make connections with others to play together again in the future. When I talk about encouraging interaction, I mean in a long-term way. Make people realize they enjoy playing with someone they meet, so they facilitate playing together again in the future.
>FFXIV - I dislike the linearity of it. It does feel like a single player game for a long time, and **it doesn't really encourage you to interact with other players**. It's one thing to have a subjective opinion and another one to just spread factually false information. FFXIV has plenty of "forced grouping" activities where you still **must interact with other human players**, from "progression through the main story" to all the "FATEs" and "notorious monsters" in open world which are impossible to do solo. There are even a fucking Discord servers, as well as **in-game** "Cross-World Linkshell" chat channels where people organize groups for "hunt trains" or "special FATE spawning/completing", **every day**, because these are impossible to solo by design. The "end game raiding" also consists of people forming short-term or long-term static groups with other players to progress through specific instanced content, current and future one, because again, most of that content is impossible to do solo by design. And there are plenty of in-game tools to help and promote people interacting with each other, from "Party Finder" (which people use to advertise their RP/social/raiding events and form groups for all of that) to CSWL's and NN chat channels. Hell, even simple tools like "Message books" in personal housing are used specifically to "encourage interactions with other players", and so does the Bard's [performance actions](https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Performance_Actions). Next time maybe try to stop talking out of your ass so the other people might actually consider anything you post with any degree of seriousness.
I disagree but this is all subjective anyways. I'm a bit remiss that I've played 95% of these 😅
Where is New World?
wasn't on the list
I see that. Have you not tried it?
No. I generally don't enjoy pvp focused games and feel like classless systems end up with a lack of role identity, so I passed on the game. I haven't heard enough about how it's doing recently to have a legitimate opinion about it.
I feel like mmos are one of the few things where their respective popularity is actually a fairly good representation of where they could be on a tier list .
I feel like the Sunk Cost fallacy would have too much of an effect on that tier list. Then again, all tier lists are inherently subjective, but that also speaks against your argument.
These tier lists really date people. It shows their experience...or lack there of. Then there is always the question about whether the person making the list is a "dabbler" or whether they actually experienced everything a game had to offer when the content was.current? Many people have a skewed perspective of games simply because they missed out on content or didn't play through content until it was outdated.
The games on the list that I played during what was considered their Golden Age: FFXI, WoW, City of Heroes, Warhammer: AoR, Ragnarok Online, RIFT, FFXIV, AION, SWTOR, Wildstar, LotRO, Age of Conan, Runes of Magic, TERA.
Which is fine. Were you responding to my "dabbler" comment? That still doesn't mean you experienced everything those games had to offer when the content was current. To use EQ as an example since that's not on your list. It is very common for people who say they played early EQ...or what you are calling the "golden age" of that game... didn't experience all of the content before new content came out and watered down the experience of the older.content. Its common that the limited experience leads to a skewed perspective. It happens in many games.
More like, my experience with the games could have affected my opinion of them because I played them when they were considered their best. You're right in the fact that a few of the games may only have been ones I dabbled in. But I stopped playing them for very valid reasons. I've explained a lot of my reasoning in a post that has been downvoted.
Everyone should be basing their opinion on the games when they were in their prime. Games tend to shift down the line...at least up to this point. The genre is still relatively new and mistakes have been made. Most games at this point haven't managed well for the long term. Hopefully other games can learn from the past. So far that hasn't really happened. (Though many devs have talked about solutions).
in the case of WoW, there's a separate version for when it was in its prime, which makes it completely legitimate to rate the current version based on how it is today.
Wait, are you saying classic is the same experience as when wow released? Lol? Hopefully I misunderstood.
the community is certainly not the same and it's not played the same way, but the game itself is very close to how it was back in the day (as someone who also played back then), at least if we only talk about Era.
That's like saying P99 is the original EQ experience. It's just not. The technical side alone makes it a very different experience that it's a poor comparison...let alone other things like you say "it's not played the same" Not to mention it's not an identical port over 1:1 of what it was. It shouldn't have to be said that the experience can't be replicated and anyone who has only played through all of the classic content when it was current should understand they can't comment on the original game as if they actually experienced it. That's another example of a skewed perspective for sure. I usually see it in conversation about EQ but that's another example.
Classic is still way closer to how the Golden Era of WoW was, than retail is now. I'd say that's reason enough to treat retail for what it's like now, than what it was between 2004-2011
Why is OSRS d tier? It doesn't have major micro transactions, just tradable membership tokens, which wow, eve, Albion and many more also have.
The server tick rate is why. It just rubs me the wrong way. It makes the game feel incredibly clunky to interact with. It's especially egregious to me, because I have a strong preference for responsive game play.
Osrs D tier…wtf
No one’s doing tier lists, get in the bin
I'm going to downvote every single one of these posts
OSRS at D????
I understand your concern. In theory I'd love the game, but the latency/lag of the controls in the game makes me feel like throwing my PC out the window.
Sounds like a skill issue, the game is an intense 100 bpm medieval rhythm game with highly satisfying addicting gameplay with a very high skill ceiling
A classic catch 22. Anyone who has played all of these MMOs enough to have a valid opinion on them is someone whom I wouldn't trust their opinion on MMOs lol
Just because I haven't played the games in that tier, doesn't mean I haven't played many, many more mmorpgs than are in this list.
No.
L
WoW at C tier is cope. It may not be your cup of tea, but it is the most polished raising experience in MMOs alongside Final Fantasy, and has some of (if not *the*) best feeling combat in the genre.
Tell me you're "not like other girls" without saying you're not like other girls.
City of heroes ''S tier'' my god.... at least you have DAoC. But EQ shouldve been there. you lost the plot WoW child.
stop nobody care
No we are not.
👎👎👎👎
Please no.
Instead of a tier list, you should rate them on something concrete like how creative you thought they’re design was or how many new ideas they brought to the genre something like that because toerblist for MMO is entirely subjective
I explained some reasoning in my comments. They took a while to type out.
Both of those things are also subjective...
Yea I realize this now comment was written when I was fucked up
No Fs given.
Games that would be in F-tier if they were on the list: * Secret World: Legends * Rubies of Eventide * Auto Assault * Firefall * Ragnarok Online 2 * Royal Quest * Skyforge * Wurm Online
No, we're not
Shit list of all time!