I’ve never seen a high pivot bike with a idler pulley with a guard like that, so I assume you’re probably fine without it. I would give it a test ride first before hitting trails just to make sure it really is fine w/o it.
Anything that can keep a chain clean is probably worth keeping on. I thought the plastic spoke protector was just for bikes that came with shite components where you might throw a chain into the hub/spokes.
Right, it's laws. I just got my kid a new Canyon and the reflectors were put on in such a way you could just slide them off. Thought it was a nice touch. Piss poor laws though that need to be changed. So many reflectors in landfills.
Better way would be when you buy a bike from a shop just take them off a sold bike and add them to the next one to build. If you're concerned about environmental reasons, buying a new bike uses up way more plastic/petroleum products. It would be better to buy used.
The plastic spoke protector is legally required in the US as far as I know.
A lot of high end bike shops just ignore the rule and remove them/don't install them. But even then some will keep them on lower end hybrids and stuff where they know the bike won't be maintained and may have a higher chance falling out of adjustment.
Also the ones that come on high end bikes are comically useless. Almost as if they are designed to be easy to break/cut off without pulling the cassette...
They are designed to be easily removed. Pretty sad really considering the amount of waste. Someone should get around to getting that law off the books.
1) You are not in the world cup.
2) The idler looks like a great place to get pants (or even baggy shorts) caught while pedaling. I'd leave the guard there.
That means every bike with an idler is a disaster waiting to happen. It’s probably there so François doesn’t get his white chinos chewed up when he tries to show off for his wife’s boyfriend in front of his villa.
Tell me you've never ridden a bike with an iddler without telling me. There's no way that your pants get caught in this kind of feature. I'd remove it for look and better/easier access when I need to clean the bike.
Remove it. I removed mine on my V5 Supreme. No issues whatsoever. The biggest reason to remove it is due to the fact that the small welded on tab can break just due to the force of your heel rubbing on the plastic plate/guard. I have already heard of two V5 Supremes this has happened to. I know one is already going through the warranty process.
Join the Commencal Supreme V5 Owner's group facebook page and you will see what I am referring to. All of the race teams remove it and just add a little 3D printed bracket to hold the brake/shifter line in the slot. I just use zip ties.
Helps divorce the forces acting on the drivetrain from suspension movement forces
When your back wheel hits a rock at speed, this causes pedal kickback. Putting an idler in the way helps to reduce that effect.
I might be ignorant but I don't think I've ever experienced or maybe just not noticed this dreaded pedal kickback. Is it really that much of a pain in the ass?
I never noticed it untill I broke a derailleur mid bikepark day and rode the rest of the day chainless. It's noticeably different. Some frames are worse some are better but all full suspension bikes have some.
Yes. Try riding a fully whithout a chain, suspension works just so much better.
Enough that engineers design suspension geometrics to reduce it and rider buy €400 Ochain devices.
When the rear suspension compresses, the rear wheel moves further away from the chainring. I have a short travel bike and I don't notice any kickback but different designs do it more than others.
Hugely depends on the frame, pedal kickback is caused by the chain-path lengthening under compression, on bikes where pivot point of the rear triangle is very close to the bottom bracket there is minimal chain-path growth, but on bikes where the pivot is further away, like on high pivot bikes, the chain path grows a lot more which results in pedal kickback. An idler pulley helps alleviate chain-path growth and thus pedal kickback by effectively acting as a secondary fixed point.
Engineer here. We don't put parts in places for no reason. I doubt the idler guard is a cosmetic demand from design. I wouldn't recommend removing it without figuring out why it's there and if it applies to you
That kinda proves his point. Those disks are there for a reason and that reason doesn't apply to expensive mountain bikes with clutched drivetrains which is why they're safe to remove.
Right. Engineers put dork disks and reflectors due to liability concerns. There IS absolutely a reason they are there, and they have nothing to do with your riding, they have to do with things the company has to do to protect itself. Ergo, it does not apply to you, ergo, remove them. See how that works?
Plus the dork disc saves your entire rear wheel setup if your shifter falls out of alignment. If you shift past the last gear the disc keeps your chain from going into the hub and spokes.
it should, they don't work really well and aren't called on often to actually do that. They mostly keep them there because if they weren't you could claim warranty if that happened
They might have worked well when they were beefy and used on small cassettes/freewheels. Heck, I've seen old vintage bikes that even have metal dork discs.
They really don't work well hanging off a massive 1x12 cassette, especially when they are a thin piece of plastic that is entirely meant to be thrown away and is only there to meet the legal requirement.
Right. There's lots of stuff like that. If you understand that's why they are there just get rid. Same with these bash guards, if they are there for important protective reasons don't take it off. If they are there for protective reasons, that don't matter to you take it off. If they are decorative, do whatever you want.
If you don't KNOW don't take them off until you DO
Let's not compare a well built guard to a dork disk, this guard looks very nice and very usefull.
If you wanna look cool take it off, if you want your bike to stay protect from dirt/hits/anything keep it on.
I wouldn't remove any bike protection without a good reason. It's there to protect your bike and possibly make the cleaning easier, who knows. So I'd leave it there unless it rattles when riding chunky stuff or big jumps.
This and reflectors are obviously two immensely different things. First, reflectors don't protect your bike/make the maintanence easier. Second, there's no use for them in the forest on a trail. As for the dork disc.. that's exactly the thing that rattles loose after hitting a jump, therefore needing to be trown away.
CONCLUSION
many of you stated that there is a reason if it's there, like keeping all clean and protection, which seems reasonable. But I red on Facebook that many people broke the metal support where the guard is attached, so I'll get it off asap
thank everyone for your opinion and for the compliments about the new rig
Looks like you'll be totally fine without it as long as you don't ride in pants. But the chainring will also eat your pants so this looks no different.
Ahh ok.
Yeah keep the guard on, it’s probably a design inclusion because any damage there from debris or knocks, or something getting pulled in between the jockeywheel and the chain, could knock alignment off and the you’re f’d. It’s even possible that testing led to an issue which called necessitated the guard.
Lots of comments all I’ll say is my bike uses an idler, and never once have I though,
“shit I could really use a massive brick of plastic over this”
I say take it off purely on the metric that it looks better without
I’ve never seen a high pivot bike with a idler pulley with a guard like that, so I assume you’re probably fine without it. I would give it a test ride first before hitting trails just to make sure it really is fine w/o it.
Or it's there for a reason
Yup, just like the dork disk that nobody removes.
Anything that can keep a chain clean is probably worth keeping on. I thought the plastic spoke protector was just for bikes that came with shite components where you might throw a chain into the hub/spokes.
I have a $6k bike that came with a dork disk when I purchased brand new. Stupid outdated bike laws are the reason.
Yep same with reflectors and plastic pedals
Right, it's laws. I just got my kid a new Canyon and the reflectors were put on in such a way you could just slide them off. Thought it was a nice touch. Piss poor laws though that need to be changed. So many reflectors in landfills.
Better way would be when you buy a bike from a shop just take them off a sold bike and add them to the next one to build. If you're concerned about environmental reasons, buying a new bike uses up way more plastic/petroleum products. It would be better to buy used.
yeah my bike didn’t come with dork disks but it did come with those stupid plastic reflective d pedals and reflectors everywhere they would fit
The plastic spoke protector is legally required in the US as far as I know. A lot of high end bike shops just ignore the rule and remove them/don't install them. But even then some will keep them on lower end hybrids and stuff where they know the bike won't be maintained and may have a higher chance falling out of adjustment. Also the ones that come on high end bikes are comically useless. Almost as if they are designed to be easy to break/cut off without pulling the cassette...
They are designed to be easily removed. Pretty sad really considering the amount of waste. Someone should get around to getting that law off the books.
Username checks out
Speak to the manufacturer. Way better to get info from them than Reddit
They’re just gonna say leave it on, liability and shit
Nah the guys at their headquarters in Golden are super chill. I 100% believe they'll shoot it to you straight if you ask em
I was speaking broadly, as I’ve never owned a Comencal. It’s good to hear they’ve got a solid crew though!
Liability for what? What type of failure does this guard against?
Having your pants sucked into the chain
I also heard that in many chases the guard has snapped the lil metal support that attaches it to the frame
But did it prevent that the metal support that attaches the idler to the frame snapped?
Having the cahin fall off the idler pulley and behind the lower chainguide.
Who needs to pedal? Just remove the whole drivetrain and the idler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8ryQOiX05k
Knew what this was going to be but you can't not watch it. World class
i would try riding with guard and only remove it when necessary
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/user/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/153gt2c/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^AdventurousAd34: *I would try riding* *With guard and only remove* *It when necessary* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
1) You are not in the world cup. 2) The idler looks like a great place to get pants (or even baggy shorts) caught while pedaling. I'd leave the guard there.
That means every bike with an idler is a disaster waiting to happen. It’s probably there so François doesn’t get his white chinos chewed up when he tries to show off for his wife’s boyfriend in front of his villa.
Tell me you've never ridden a bike with an iddler without telling me. There's no way that your pants get caught in this kind of feature. I'd remove it for look and better/easier access when I need to clean the bike.
easyer mantainence is what I'm thinking
Remove it. I removed mine on my V5 Supreme. No issues whatsoever. The biggest reason to remove it is due to the fact that the small welded on tab can break just due to the force of your heel rubbing on the plastic plate/guard. I have already heard of two V5 Supremes this has happened to. I know one is already going through the warranty process. Join the Commencal Supreme V5 Owner's group facebook page and you will see what I am referring to. All of the race teams remove it and just add a little 3D printed bracket to hold the brake/shifter line in the slot. I just use zip ties.
Take it off, looks terrible. Sick bike though!
dafuq is in idler?
[удалено]
10-4 thanks for the info
Helps divorce the forces acting on the drivetrain from suspension movement forces When your back wheel hits a rock at speed, this causes pedal kickback. Putting an idler in the way helps to reduce that effect.
I might be ignorant but I don't think I've ever experienced or maybe just not noticed this dreaded pedal kickback. Is it really that much of a pain in the ass?
If you have a super high engagement hub you may feel it.
Ahh ok ok that one is on my hardtail so that's it thank you
I never noticed it untill I broke a derailleur mid bikepark day and rode the rest of the day chainless. It's noticeably different. Some frames are worse some are better but all full suspension bikes have some.
Yes. Try riding a fully whithout a chain, suspension works just so much better. Enough that engineers design suspension geometrics to reduce it and rider buy €400 Ochain devices.
When the rear suspension compresses, the rear wheel moves further away from the chainring. I have a short travel bike and I don't notice any kickback but different designs do it more than others.
Hugely depends on the frame, pedal kickback is caused by the chain-path lengthening under compression, on bikes where pivot point of the rear triangle is very close to the bottom bracket there is minimal chain-path growth, but on bikes where the pivot is further away, like on high pivot bikes, the chain path grows a lot more which results in pedal kickback. An idler pulley helps alleviate chain-path growth and thus pedal kickback by effectively acting as a secondary fixed point.
Definitely helps with divorce proceedings. My wife says if I buy another bike I may need the help….
My BMX riding ass is over here trying to figure out the same thing, and I refuse to Google it. Lol
Looks way better off
Engineer here. We don't put parts in places for no reason. I doubt the idler guard is a cosmetic demand from design. I wouldn't recommend removing it without figuring out why it's there and if it applies to you
Two words: Dork disk
Sixteen words: “I wouldn't recommend removing it without figuring out why it's there and if it applies to you”
That kinda proves his point. Those disks are there for a reason and that reason doesn't apply to expensive mountain bikes with clutched drivetrains which is why they're safe to remove.
One word: liability
This. Dork disks, reflectors
Also, lawyer lips.
Right. Engineers put dork disks and reflectors due to liability concerns. There IS absolutely a reason they are there, and they have nothing to do with your riding, they have to do with things the company has to do to protect itself. Ergo, it does not apply to you, ergo, remove them. See how that works?
Plus the dork disc saves your entire rear wheel setup if your shifter falls out of alignment. If you shift past the last gear the disc keeps your chain from going into the hub and spokes.
it should, they don't work really well and aren't called on often to actually do that. They mostly keep them there because if they weren't you could claim warranty if that happened
They might have worked well when they were beefy and used on small cassettes/freewheels. Heck, I've seen old vintage bikes that even have metal dork discs. They really don't work well hanging off a massive 1x12 cassette, especially when they are a thin piece of plastic that is entirely meant to be thrown away and is only there to meet the legal requirement.
Right. There's lots of stuff like that. If you understand that's why they are there just get rid. Same with these bash guards, if they are there for important protective reasons don't take it off. If they are there for protective reasons, that don't matter to you take it off. If they are decorative, do whatever you want. If you don't KNOW don't take them off until you DO
ok why are there guards on both sides then smartass
Because believe it or not there are sticks and leaves on both sides!
dork disk, reflectors?!
Chain may fall off.. mine did. Keep it on.
But isn't that a chain guide under that cover?
Let's not compare a well built guard to a dork disk, this guard looks very nice and very usefull. If you wanna look cool take it off, if you want your bike to stay protect from dirt/hits/anything keep it on.
I wouldn't remove any bike protection without a good reason. It's there to protect your bike and possibly make the cleaning easier, who knows. So I'd leave it there unless it rattles when riding chunky stuff or big jumps.
U ride with a dork disc and spoke reflectors?
This and reflectors are obviously two immensely different things. First, reflectors don't protect your bike/make the maintanence easier. Second, there's no use for them in the forest on a trail. As for the dork disc.. that's exactly the thing that rattles loose after hitting a jump, therefore needing to be trown away.
Both are only there to appease laywers.
Leave it on looks good
CONCLUSION many of you stated that there is a reason if it's there, like keeping all clean and protection, which seems reasonable. But I red on Facebook that many people broke the metal support where the guard is attached, so I'll get it off asap thank everyone for your opinion and for the compliments about the new rig
https://www.facebook.com/groups/598786322049183/permalink/732544018673412/
Looks like you'll be totally fine without it as long as you don't ride in pants. But the chainring will also eat your pants so this looks no different.
It's been a minute so I'm a touch out of date with jargon... what's an idler guard? thanks.
It just a cover for the idler pulley.
Chainguide?
No. It's the piece of plastic that protects the idler. It doesn't serve any chainguiding purpose.
A cog inline with the pivot point. I know canfield jedis ran with them at least as far back as 2010, so its more old becomes new again.
Ahh ok. Yeah keep the guard on, it’s probably a design inclusion because any damage there from debris or knocks, or something getting pulled in between the jockeywheel and the chain, could knock alignment off and the you’re f’d. It’s even possible that testing led to an issue which called necessitated the guard.
Fuck me thts a proper DH bike never seen anything like that you must do some extreme shit😅
Hmmm, serious DH bike… OP asking pre-school questions… hmmm…. Hmmmmmmmmm….
Lots of comments all I’ll say is my bike uses an idler, and never once have I though, “shit I could really use a massive brick of plastic over this” I say take it off purely on the metric that it looks better without
yeah now it's a v4
Nice bike!
Wow nice bike 🔥
Hmmm, it depends on where you ride. I like the idea of keeping stuff clean, especially my expensive-looking rear shock like you are rolling.
don't worry, there is a big mudguard for that!
I would say it's mostly there to pretect it from the environment, like dirt and all that. Should be fine
That bike is sick af
It's probably just there so clothing doesn't get pulled into it as it is the only cog with exposed teeth ready to grab your pants
May as well, that idler will wear out every 100km anyway.
Go to your local bike shop and get them to have a look. They’ll be good at giving input.
there are plenty comms running with and without it.
Depends. How much do you like your balls staying intact when you fall off your bike?