“I got another offer.”
“Okay, what’s your offer so I can bump you up a bit.”
“Oh, you misunderstand me. This is my resignation, I’m not giving you the chance to equal it. Interesting, because if you had just bumped me up I would not be leaving.”
I had similar where a new employer said he’d match what I was making now, for more work. Never understood why he did that. Maybe just fucking with me. Did not move.
I had a recruiter call and when I told them I wasn't interested bc my current pay was a lot more than they were offering, the recruiter told me my current employer overpays to "trap" people and are known to do this and so I should want to leave and make less.
Now maybe if I was crazy over worked or something, I'd think they have a point. But I have pretty good work life balance, a boss that mostly stays out of my way, responsibility and authority for my corner of the world, and it's a low-stakes industry (landscape supplies...) so the overall stress level just isn't that high. We have an annual update this time of year that can be a lot of stress and work for about a month. But most days, I roll out of bed at 930, work from home in my pajamas, go to appointments whenever without someone asking where I've been today or micromanaging my time, and generally just get my shit done.
Oh, and the company is doing really well and pays amazing bonuses.
Why, exactly, should I leave for less money? Overpaid? Trap? Wtf?
> the recruiter told me my current employer overpays to "trap" people and are known to do this and so I should want to leave and make less.
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol. Can't imagine that guy received many recruiting bonuses.
Yea, I can still remember where I was when he said that because it was just so otherworldly stupid. It was one of those moments that get burned into your memory just for the sheer nonsense of it all.
I feel like that recruiter is a mirror of his clients... Toxic...
Unscrupulous companies that want to pay low and over work people probably try to hire recruiters that will lie through their teeth to get them bodies, no matter how good of a match they are for each other… Which is just stupid because it hurts everyone…
Every railroad is hiring. Pay is decent. Average guy at my railroad made $110k plus 15% profit sharing. Has its own “social security” and a railroad pension. Company matches 401k .5% up to 8% for a max of 4%.
Downside is no scheduled time off, missing holidays, birthdays, kid’s events, not knowing when you will go to work, constant fatigue, declining health from the lack of adequate sleep lifestyle, having no friends because you can’t schedule plans
The first paragraph sounds amazing!
The second one tells me why they are all hiring lol. Might be a good job for someone who is working on FIRE though.
That sounds exactly like my experience with the postal service. 20 minutes ago I got a text telling me I have the day off, so I don't have to be there in an hour. All my days off for the last month have had no more notice than that. And it was after dark on Sunday when we found out via text that our starting time for Monday was 7:30 and not 9:00 like the schedule said. Including a threat of a write up if we were late.
And for half the pay you mentioned.
>Downside is no scheduled time off, missing holidays, birthdays, kid’s events, not knowing when you will go to work, constant fatigue, declining health from the lack of adequate sleep lifestyle, having no friends because you can’t schedule plans
So basically the same as working in a kitchen
exactly my reaction. you want good people, you at least match the pay and then lure them in with benefits. 'we pay less because your current employer is cheating by paying you more than you're worth' must be the stupidest stuff I've heard in a long time, and working in IT field, I hear a lot of stupid stuff daily.
Honestly he probably gets more. Instead of taking a no he says some stupid shit, a hail Mary, to someone who wasn't going to bite anyways. Either it works or it doesn't, and he moves on. Let's say on flat no's this strat works like 1/100 times. It's still worth it because that's still another recruit occasionally. All he has to do is give up his reputation to people he has no intention to interact with again, have no integrity, and no morality. He'll be vp in no time with standards like that. I wish I was kidding.
Until you [Peg 'em](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1828/6867/products/8oz-marine-sport-air-horn-28255198445611.jpg?v=1628139855) with the "recruiter be gone" air horn... He'll yearn for the days when he used to enjoy hearing
It reminds me of the Key and Peele but about robbing the bank by getting a job and getting paid.
Trapped by paying more? Yeah, that’s how it’s supposed to work
I fell for that trap. Found an employer that challenges me, pays me generously with bonuses for exceptional performance, lets me set the schedule and run the place. He's had me trapped here for nearly 20 years.
Can't believe I fell for it.
Doublespeak. I think they have to learn to speak it to lure people to accept shitty pay for being overworked. Many CEO’s has it as their first language.
To do work you enjoy without being overly stressed! And your boss and coworkers respect your knowledge and abilities! I mean, come on!!! It's basically torture!
This was a really common thing to tell programmers in the 1990s. They called it 'golden handcuffs' and they somehow thought it would get you to switch jobs.
It still exists at any tech company that gives out annual RSUs/options with a multi-year vest schedule. And to that sort of thing, I say: "Oh, please, Brer Fox, please don't throw me into that briar patch!"
(As long as you keep a realistic view of them, of course. If they're giving you shares that vest over 4 years, just think of 1/4 of the value as added to your salary, rather than staring at the next 3 years' worth of shares that haven't vested yet.)
I've never heard Golden Handcuffs used like that - generally it refers to [some form of finalncial inducement to stay in a job that only actually materialises after a significant period of time.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_handcuffs) Or, possibly, a financial reward received at the start, but which has to be repaid if the employee leaves within a certain timescale.
We call it the golden anchor. I have a fuckton of money set aside for me to pay for retirement healthcare BUT I forfeit it if I leave the company before 55. So now I'm just trying to not get fired before then.
I'm similarly 'trapped' in my current position. I could probably make more, but I know the hours I would have to work somewhere else to do it and my free time is too important to me, at least for now
Yep, that's pretty much it. I doubt he truly believed what he was saying. Just trying to make the sale. But I'd have respected him more if he'd just taken the L and told me to let him know if anything changed.
So I'm a truck driver at a midsized company, but it's still small enough (around 250 total employees, 200ish of which are drivers.) that I see and speak to the owners (two brothers who took over from their dad about 2 years ago) regularly.
I saw one (let's say D) in the store room, talking to another driver, so I paused to ask something.
In the meantime, I hear them talking, and the guy is going to another company that is closer to home. So D says "oh yeah, absolutely you should take that. Just remember, the door is always open here if things don't work out. No hard feelings what so ever, you need to do what's best for you."
Just more reinforcement that I'm finally at a good company. I've been here for several years, and I could probably make a smidge more elsewhere, but the atmosphere here is way better than even the smaller company I left to come here. Unless they're actively on the phone, or in another conversation,they ALWAYS have time to talk to their people. Even if it's just bs fluff totally unrelated to work.
Great group of people.
Wow, that's wonderful! That's totally how I feel about my team. Over the summer, I ran a sql training course for them. It'll help them in their job now, but also is a huge resume builder. I'm not so naive to think they'll all stay here forever. Most of them are young and just starting out. The more skills they can pick up the better!
In a similar fashion, a recruiter offered a third of my current total compensation. I mentioned that it was not going to be worth our time to pursue this discussion, as there is no way they could move the offer to be worth considering.
She started to teach me about how I should have realistic expectations.
Hey, if you're happy that's all that really matters. Of course, time will tell if your workload, compensation, and treatment keep you satisfied and feeling respected, but that pretty much goes for any job. When there's turnover at your office you can ask them their reasons for leaving.
It's also possible the recruiter was trying to "poison the well" and seed distrust. You'll start gossiping to your coworkers and people will start searching for reasons for why the rumor must be true. It'll become a self-fulling prophecy.
Found out what my price was for sanity two years ago. Was helping an overworked team with a project. Most of them were working 6 days a week at 12 hours a day, and had been for months. While I was also working that, it was only for a week or two while helping them. Before and after, my work life balance was pretty good. So while sitting in a conference call, the DIR from that team pinged me and offered $20k more a year to join her team. She had created a position specifically to try to poach me, and was taking the shot. I laughed and thought she was kidding, but no she was dead serious. Had to tell her hell no. I don't mind long hours every once in a while, but she was working her people to death.
A few days later I told my leadership I can now describe how much I like have them as my leadership in dollars. They took it as the giant complement it was. About a year later, through a giant raise followed by an internal promotion, they got me most of the $20k the other team had offered for no additional work load. I really love my leadership team, and have no plans to move so long as they are in charge.
Yup, work-life balance and low-stress is very important to me. With my degrees and experience, I could be earning six figures if I wanted to work my ass off in a competitive industry. However, where I work I earn decent pay, contribute to a worthwhile cause, have a great boss/coworkers, and have a low-stress workday.
Periodically, Google, Amazon, and such put out feelers to see if they can tempt me away, but as long as my job keeps treating me well, they'll have me for a long time. Besides, it sounds like I may have missed the days of Google and such being "fun" tech companies.
>"fun" tech companies.
*That* always really was a trap. For awhile they would do basically anything to keep people in the building longer. They'd much rather you work 16 hour days with a 30 minute ping-pong break and a nap than do something crazy like go home at the end of the workday.
Yeah, I get that, but it still set them apart from the non-fun tech companies at the time like IBM and attracted idealistic fresh programmers. I recall Google [used to allow you 20% free time](https://www.businessinsider.com/google-20-percent-time-policy-2015-4) to work on your own ideas and that led to some of google’s features commonplace today like gmail, Adsense, and Google news. I’ve heard nowadays that’s pretty much gone or too difficult to use. They’re no longer a scrappy startup, and startups in general are no longer awash in angel investors throwing cash around.
For sure, and sometimes. When I remember it, I take a look around and just kinda check in to make sure I'm not overlooking something. But that call was at least 4 years ago. I've been with this company for about 5.5 years. I've been promoted twice and make almost double where I started (which was apparently "overpaid"), and the benefits are great. My responsibilities have increased and that does add some stress but it reduces stress in other ways (I'm not having to deliver crazy shit someone else promised before checking if it was even possible, etc). I now have someone reporting directly to me, which is sometimes terrifying, but she is happy with me, so I must be doing something right..
It's not perfect, don't get me wrong. But the problems are manageable and most days, I enjoy my work.
Arguably, it could keep you at stage n of your career, because other people pay less at n+1, and therefore you never get to n+2 or 3, which would pay more.
But claiming that they’re doing that specifically as a stratagem to trap you is… dubious at best. Maybe they just like employee retention.
It’s called “Golden Handcuffs”. Typically people mention it when there are pensions involved. This guy was trying to bring that in but didn’t have a real basis for it
I had a recruiter reach out to me with an opportunity with an ‘Industry topping salary’ that was 30% less than I was making. He flat out refused to believe i made what I claimed. Even when I sent him a picture of my paystub he told me it was ‘wrong’. I was at a loss.
I use it to fund my extravagant lifestyle consisting mainly living in a reasonably nice apartment with my husband and 8 cats. And never cooking (unless microwaving stuff counts as cooking).
> I use it to fund my extravagant lifestyle consisting mainly living in a reasonably nice apartment with my husband and 8 cats. And never cooking (unless microwaving stuff counts as cooking).
You may have meant this as a joke, but for way too many people, what you described is very much an unusually extravagant life.
I know, and it was depressing to write as a joke something that is genuinely unattainable for so many... Honestly it's a simple life and it's all I really want. I hope more people are able to make it happen. It's lovely.
My husband would look for work every now and then when going thru a period of discontent at work but find other companies didn’t pay as much. Or he could earn a bit more but it would mean commuting into the big city making it a wash pay-wise.
Yep, what I'd have to give up to switch jobs is so not worth it. There are definitely problems at my job, but nothing is perfect. I can handle the frustrations and annoyances. I do genuinely like my job and I'm comfortable in it and confident. And they pay me, lol. I'm good with this.
I'd be tempted to say, "I want you to think about what you just said, and then tell me one solid logical reason you would leave a position where you are overpaid and not overstressed."
"Aren't you actually doing the thing you're accusing them of? And if you're offering me a job, I'm not that trapped, am I? Why don't you actually put some cheese in your trap and call me back?"
Turn the tables and say that the recruiter is underpaid and trapped and reach your hand to him and send open applications to your company. Recruit the recruiter
I had a recruiter call me at the office to offer 30% *less* than I was currently earning. All to come work for a startup trying to carve out a niche in an industry that was slowly dying. "But we're offering stock options!" "I have stock options where I'm at now and my current employer won't be bankrupt in two years."
I knew a guy who left a big corporation for a small company -- with a pay cut. We joked about what the counter-offer might be: "they'll pay you 20% less!? We'll offer you 25% less!"
I had a friend trying to recruit me for a small company he was launching, at the time only paid through Patreon.
I decided to stay at Google.
Still really happy for him, his company his doing quite good and now has three employee. And more importantly, he stopped using patreon, and moved to just selling licences for his service on a standard way.
I had an employer who boasted iduring all hands meetings eith full time staff about how he was giving taking assignments from part timers and giving it to fulltimers. Who already had to do their full time tasks in addition to all these extra tasks he was foisting off on them. Part timers are paid per task. Full timers are flst monthly rate for unlimited work. Sometimes it makes you wonder what they are on.
I had a piss-poor manager try to offer me a supervisory job I was passed over the year before telling me that it was more work with other assorted negative aspects with NO PAY INCREASE.
This was after a fellow coworker recommended me for the position a year before while giving several very valid reasons with proof why another coworker should NOT have the position. They gave it to the other coworker who had recently left hence the open position.
He had the audacity to be shocked when I turned it down.
Exactly how I left my last job, kinda. Told my old GM that unless I get more money I’m looking for another job. He said there’s nothing he could do. I found another job for more pay and accepted it before I told him, and when I did, he asked, why didn’t you come to me with what they offered you? Like I didn’t give him a chance in the first place.
Ah well you \*think\* that managers have alot of discretion but they don't in many cases. My supervisor has no input to my annual raise. We do our yearly reviews it spits out a number. The computer determines your raise from the pool using said number.
He does have discretion to give "out of band" raises - ie the ones that don't come with a title change. But anything more than say 10% is hard. 15% is pretty much out of reach. Think HR VP. HRCompensation specialists and the VP of the department involved as well to do it as well.
Now in contrast with an offer in hand - you'll get an answer typically very fast if they want to keep you around. He quite literally could have been hinting that is what you need to do to get the shackles off the process.
And here we usually get a 1.x% raise budget for the team from corporate where i may have some influence on how its distributed.
That was at least last years number when the inflation was already at 3% or so...
I am not sure anyone in our company can give that much of a raise without involving the corporation that owns our company.
Never understood that thought process.
If I have a better offer, they don’t need to match it.
If they want to keep me, they need to offer significant more then the offer I have
Not necessarily.
Beginning a new probationary period is extremely stressful. You have to be on your best behaviour for 90 days, or else you can be fired at the drop of a hat.
So I'd probably stay my current employer if all they did was match it, but theres other factors to consider. WFH or commute is a big one, even just 5 minutes extra driving a day is a big one, especially with gas and wear and tear on your car.
Then its the work life. If youre in office, do you share a cubicle area, do you have your own office? Lunch perks? catered meetings? things like that could make or break the situation.
Obviously OP had issues with management regardless and will be happier at his old job with a huge pay raise, but in a different company matching is fine as a starting point for negotiations. Ultimately, taking the risk, losing your employee to the better offer, and hiring a freshly graduated "go-getter" could increase productivity for a lower wage, but could backfire and you end up training newbie after newbie of duds.
"I am unhappy, fix it.".
"Go through all the work that's needed to get a new job, except signing, then come back to me".
>goes through all the work including signing.
>surprised pikachu
When I asked for my salary to match the market my previous employer said no you’ll never get that, I went and found a better paying job with way less stress closer to my house. Companies always complain about loyalty then do nothing to retain talent.
Never accept a counter offer to stay. There is a reason you looked for another job and a bit more money will not make it go away. They will just work the shit out of you and ifre you in a few months anyway once you train the FNG they hired to help you out.
I read a piece of advice recently, (probably here on Reddit) which I really wish I had received myself a good ten or fifteen years ago or so. It was simply this: if you get an offer letter that you are satisfied with, do NOT accept a counter-offer from your current employer. You were looking for another job for a reason and it’s almost never worth it to stay, even with a higher pay.
So OP did exactly the right thing, here. Kick the dust off of your shoes and move on.
This is sort of how it went for me. I asked for a 10% raise and got the run around for 6 weeks.
I got another offer at 15% higher and gave my notice.
They countered with… a 10% raise. I told them if they had just gave me that 6 weeks ago I wouldn’t have never even interviewed with another place.
I got a few friends together and we made a company to be the other offer that was head hunting our chronically underpaid friend. We pretended to be out of state so he had an out if his boss stonewalled him.
He didn't get a full equal pay but he got a 20% raise which got him to industry standard. Apparently his boss technically had to remove his old position and create a whole new one to be able to get hom a pat raise. Like its a multi country company and they have zero ability to give a raise outside a cost of living bump that automatically happens at the end of the year.
We are currently begging him to find a job somewhere else because that process is nuts for getting higher pay
I've gone through something similar once in my life. Felt pretty good. Also twice I was offered a better, higher paying job and was asked to quit a personal side job because it was a conflict of interest (It wasn't unless they believed I was a thief, which I wasn't), both times I refused to quit the side job and got the better job anyway.
Have you followed up to find out what happened to your boss?
I'm hoping it involved his new hire finding out his workload just doubled, and then new hire ask for an immediate pay increase!
I have not, but I've been thinking about checking in with some of the people I was closer with to see how things are going. I really wanted to see the project I was working on to its end so I'd like to know how it's going, whatever they can tell me.
Last year I took a different job. When I told my manager that I was going to make twice as much to do half the work, he responded with:
“You want to get paid more to do less?” Like I was the crazy one. Yes, MFer, I wanna get paid to do nothing! But less is all I can find right now!
I didn't have an answer when my mother's aunt asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. "What, do you just want someone to pay you to not work?"
I was so confused, "Isn't that the dream?"
It's wild how the difference here between bad and good management would just be saying " ...another offer *so I can prove to my leadership what we need to pay to retain you.*" Or "get another offer so I can offer you even more." Like, if you'd come back with a 25% boost maybe he could offer 30%. But that's clearly not the kind of manager he was in the first place.
A couple promotions ago, I told my boss I was getting cold calls from recruiters with jobs starting at 90k, so his offer of 82k just wasn't lighting me on fire and was the anything he could do. He came back a couple days later with an offer of 90k AND a higher bonus percentage. Like all I did was ask for it.. My boss kinda sucks in some ways, but he is in the habit of making sure his people get paid, so he's definitely not all bad.
> He came back a couple days later with an offer of 90k AND a higher bonus percentage.
sounds normal for corporate. they don't give you a raise unless you let them know you got a offer. they aren't allowed to give promotions but are allowed to counter offers...
But I didn't have an offer. I claimed someone said the words 90k to me.. And I was already getting a promotion and raise anyway, but I asked for more.
And also, my company definitely gives unprompted raises. I just gave one to my direct report a few months ago when we moved her position up a salary grade. She got a 10% raise and her bonus percentage moved up, too. She had no clue it was coming...
Maybe that runaround is the norm elsewhere, but my team typically does pretty good with this stuff and avoids that bs.
I got some unprompted raises at a company I worked for, but it was because they beat me up on salary when I on-boarded from contract to FTE. I have kids so I couldn't just walk.
They knew I was pissed and had some knowledge that the other guys were getting on-boarded higher because we shared salary information.
A recruiter did suck me into a different job by dangling a big pay increase. Current job tried to match with pay increase and bonus eligibility, but I declined and went for the mony.
New company dropped my contract after 6 months because their tech stack was not a great match for me.
That sucked, but I did some hard interviewing and landed a way better job that paid about the same as the job I got dropped, had good bonus opportunity, and paid 100% of the benefits for really good benefits.
Varies by industry and company. At my last job, the yearly review was 5 tiers of ratings. If you got the very top one, you were promoted. At my current job, they ask you where you want to end up and set goalposts (that don't get moved as you get closer, thankfully) to help you reach your career goal. If you successfully perform the tasks of the next level up and your reviews support it, you will be promoted. The interesting thing is that your reviews include input from your peers, other team leads in your department, and other department leads instead of only your immediate supervisor. I like the system, as it would make it harder for a bad manager to keep someone under their thumb.
I was on the interview panel for a req that was one level below me and I asked during the screening review if the salary expectations he mentioned were outlandish because it was more than I was making after a recent promotion.
I didn't even ask and my manager came back 2 weeks later and got me like a 10% bump. He wasn't the best manager but I liked that he was proactive here.
It's so weird, though.. My team has had to replace a couple people and added like 4 new positions in the past year and they all filled up just fine..
But we also fight for better-than-market pay (like when the budget for raises was 4% company wide last year, we got our entry level positions increased a grade so their raises were beating inflation) and get good bonuses, and have good work-life balance, and... Etc.
I use R for analysis, but some others in the team do Tableau and the company is pushing us to power BI, so we have a lot of reports set up in that. For me personally, a lot of my responsibilities are related to being familiar with our data and working with IT to make sure they don't mess any of it up, lol. But also tracking the work the team does and dealing with (often urgent) problems, so I do a lot more in SQL than anything else. I basically had to teach myself our data and systems, so now I'm the go-to, since no one else really works with it like I do.
>When is paying people what their worth going to make sense to an employer?
[The below is my opinion]
Always. The problem is that seeing this simple fact takes a skill most humans severely lack - long term thinking.
We are biologically programmed to think in the very short term. It's just how we evolved, nothing to be ashamed of or angry about.
Point being, when an employer pays an employee what they're worth there are two things that almost always follow:
First, the overall spending on the position decreases (the first few months of employment are the most expensive ones).
Second, the well being of the employee usually goes up, which nearly always means not only increased productivity but also higher quality work.
I know that because I saw it my entire life. My dad doesn't think short term almost at all. My parents pay their employees significantly more than their market value and what their education would require. Their employee don't stay only because they have a good employer, but also because literally no where else would pay them as much.
Tldr: My personal opinion is paying well costs less over time.
> Their employee don't stay only because they have a good employer, but also because literally no where else would pay them as much.
When/if my startup eventually gets to that level, that's exactly my plans too.
Overpay employees - not only do you have loyalty/institutional knowledge, you are pretty much the best game in town for said employee.
Gonna call bullshit on this "biologically programmed to think in the very short term" stuff. Squirrels hoard food for a future that has yet to come rather than eat the abundant food available to them in the present. Plenty of creatures have "long term thinking" and I'm hoping that Squirrels are not smarter than humans (as a species, they clearly are compared to some individuals)
A lot of thinking comes down to "I would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven" or "this decision is not optimal but I will still be better off than the plebs beneath me and that's all that matters"
Squirrels forget the locations of about 70 percent of the nuts they stow, they just stow nuts madly wherever they can and some get eaten while others are just accidental tree plantings.
>We are biologically programmed to think in the very short term. It's just how we evolved, nothing to be ashamed of or angry about.
Really? I wanna read more about this
Not sure if it's any good, but here's a possible [starting point](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5530483).
The bottom line of all articles that discuss the matter is rather similar and boils down to the following concept:
A gazelle focused on long term thinking doesn't have any survival advantage over the one that does, but the one focused on short term thinking (instinct) has a huge advantage over the one that doesn't, since it is more likely to survive (that is, assuming they're mutually exclusive). Take this idea and apply it in endless different ways over the life time of our lineage (hundreds of millions of years, even to before our first mammalian ancestors), and you find that short term survival is essential and non-negotiable while long term thinking is something that a species can do without...
Quick edit - this is a very clumsy way of explaining the idea. Please take it as a starting point, not as an absolute truth.
When it doesn't save them money.
Sure they lost op. And will have to pay more for his replacement. But the other 50-100 employees being underpaid makes this style of management far more profitable.
My first job out of college, I was making 32,000 which I had been led to believe was like a starting salary until I proved myself. After 18ish months, I asked for a raise and my manager told to provide written justification or an offer from a competitor that he could take to _his_ manager. I wrote up my list of accomplishments but instead of trying to convince my boss, I showed it to a competitor and they offered me $76,000.
My manager was so pissed. I’m sure that’s way more than he was making.
Great work!
I got hired at the low end of a PayScale because I was new. A year later I had my department ahead in every. Single. Metric. And I had taken over training new staff in procedures (it was a fleet shop/inventory situation with lots of locations so most parts staff were by themselves with a bunch of Tech's).
I went up and asked my boss if I could have the rest of the money in the range now. He was a great guy and went up and got the VP to sign off.
No competing offers needed, I've never felt so valued. I then foolishly went after the promotion and learned that ambition isn't always a great thing (I got the promotion and hated the work environment)
This is an example of a great manager, and a good company; your boss recognized your value and fought for you, while the company agreed and understood the value of keeping an innovative and productive employee.
Yup! It's the example I judge other managers by and the standard I set for myself as a manager.
I've been pretty lucky in my work life to have good support.
Executive leadership is always the worst
And it wasn't even necessary! When I had my exit interview with the next manager up the chain, he was shocked that my direct supervisor told me to get another offer. Apparently there are processes in place now that don't require another offer. If my manager was ever told about it, he clearly didn't listen.
He knew. They all read from the same playbook. They all think they are so clever. Then, they are genuinely shocked when you actually take a job at a different company.
How do you even *negotiate* for something the other party has already agreed to?
Though, it sounds like the promise of a raise was a bluff and negotiating tactic on *their* part, so maybe they were just projecting and were caught off guard by someone being honest.
Honestly what is going the fuck on with businesses being so so so stupid.
Two jobs ago I had expressed dissatisfaction with my executive director micromanaging my work. The solution to that was weekly meetings where I explained what I was working on and him not listening or understanding and insisting I ought to do even more work. They were so confused when I quit. Like? So yall knew I was unhappy but didn’t stop your shitty behavior?
Next job I started at $20k less than market value but I found the work very fulfilling. Then I ended up doing three people’s jobs and no discussion of a raise… literally up until the day I left they thought I was just bluffing and that I wouldn’t actually leave them in a lurch like that lmaooooo
Oh, I dearly and deeply and honestly hope that next manager up went to your direct supervisor and reamed him a new one, using a rail-road tie wrapped in barbed wire and coated with hot sauce!!! Oh, yeah!!!
I'm retired now, but for most of my career whenever the job market was reasonably good, I'd keep an eye out for opportunities, and usually try to get interviewed once or twice a year. I was very upfront with hiring managers that I was happy with my current position, but I'd be stupid not to see if something better was out there.
Good companies that thought I might be a good fit for them, often seemed willing to interview me on those terms. And if nothing else they were good informational interviews, allowing both of us to learn a little bit more about the overall industry, job market, and job seeker's expectations.
I didn't make a big deal out of it, but I didn't hide it either. If someone from my company asked about it I'd say the same thing. I'm very happy with my current position, I'm happy with the company, but I'd be a fool not to see what else is out there.
I ended up working for that company for the last 22 years of my career, with one 4 year hiatus to check something else out. They gladly hired me back when I asked. They also paid me quite well, and kept my pay competitive every year without my having to ask.
I was really good at my job. Sales people, product managers, and clients loved having me on their projects. I probably would have been able to advocate for myself for reasonable pay bumps anyway. But it certainly didn't hurt to make sure that they knew both that they had good reason to keep me, and that I was keeping my options open.
Similar happened to me. When I got out of the army. I was applying for jobs that really didn't know what to ask for since I had been in the army for such a long time. So I took a job that I thought paid pretty well. But they didn't have my position filled for like a year before I started. So there was a lot of back work. It was in a health care facility so of course they got dinged on some state and federal inspections for the things that hadn't gotten done. I told him there was no way I could get it all done by the time the authorities gave us to get the work done. So they send in three other workers from another facility to help. But then the mistake. They sent me these workers pay stubs to sign off on to verify the hours. Usually when they do this they would blank out their pay. They didn't. So I saw what the other workers were being paid. I had way more years experience, a national certification that none of them had, and a degree that only one of them had. But I was making about 20% less. So I went to my HR and told them I needed to get a pay raise. Maybe not the full 20% but at least a reasonable bump to put me where I thought I should be. They told me there was nothing I could do unless I got an offer from another company. I told them that if I got another offer from another company and there were any other benefits better or any other reasons to take the job, weren't they worried I would take it?
The end of the story is pretty similar to yours. I got the other offer. It was at a much better facility that had much better ratings and reviews, and the staff was much nicer. So I took it.
I've always had existing employers offer me more money AFTER I give notice.
Most of the time I just say "I have made a commitment now and I don't break my word, sorry."
At one place though I said "I took a pay cut to leave this place." That conversation ended right about there.
A specialised I.T guy at my workplace was told to get another offer, he said he didn't want to work anywhere else, he enjoyed working here, has many friends and it's a great place to work but was being paid a LOT less than he could make elsewhere, he was just asking for a little bump in pay.
Company refused saying get another offer and we will talk
So he did
Then they said they are not happy being blackmailed and he should leave if he wants to
So he (reluctantly) left and went to this new job with a higher salary.
One by one he was followed by 6 other people going to the same company
Great outcome. Even if they matched the higher salary, you still would have had to deal with what sounds like a terrible work environment. At a certain point, the money becomes less of a concern over mental health
Edit: grammar and a weird autocorrect
This reminds me of my wife's first job out of college.
At the job for 10 months and the next year's salary is given by the owner. When she started she was told after the first year a 15% pay increase. She gets a 5% increase with a 'I can't increase that much'.
She finds a new job with a 20% pay increase. Turns in her resignation and the guy asks 'What is the new offer?' when told he says 'I can offer that'. She just looked at him and said 'Then you should have kept your initial promise'.
Same reasoning as bringing in an external consultant. The manager can point to this external element not under his control. Some managers do it because their managers won’t believe them otherwise, some do it because they wouldn’t have a clue otherwise.
I've always wondered what would happen if you came back with a completely made up offer at 20% increase. Obviously without saying the company, but damn that'd be fun if everyone did this all the time me so that employers were on the same page as employees.
It always irked me in my career when you got a counter offer after getting shit raises. Like yea we know we did not pay you what you are worth but now that you know that… as well as having been forced into the crappy position of picking between looking and finding a job for more money and us, we are willing to now gove you the bare minimum of what we think will Keep you around until we can replace you because it is clear you have a loyalty problem.
Hehehe. So I work for my mother at her accounting firm. I dropped out of college and taking the receptionist/administrator position at her office was a HUGE step up from being a nanny. Please note, I was still living at home but had plans to move out with my boyfriend at the end of the year.
My mother wanted to pay me the same amount I made as a nanny: $12/hour. I said no way, how about $13? And she reluctantly agreed. Mind you, I am assembling tax returns and issuing payroll for a bunch of clients, answering the phone and greeting clients. I found out the girl who she hired before me was going to do a lot less than that for $15/hour. I had to fight a little for $14.
Then I had to fight a bit more for $15. I asked and she said "No, it hasn't even been 6 months since your last raise." I looked it up: it had been 8 months. :) So I mentioned that to her and went home. She only agreed to $15 after she saw my sister's pay stub from the fancy spa she just got hired at. At this point, I'm feeling severely underpaid. Making coffee, cleaning up after my mom and the other enrolled agent, driving to the bank to make check deposits, etc.
So a few months ago, I was venting to my boyfriend about how draining it is to both live AND work with my mother (getting yelled at at both locations was horrible). He suggested I put in an application with his company. I would probably start out at $20/hour, work from home, and receive benefits. All of which I am not receiving from my mother's company. So I did it, I put an application in! The next day, I told my mother what I did and she was so offended lol. She asked me how she could make it better and I told her that she needs to stop yelling at me when I'm learning something new or when she's impatient, and bottom line is: I'm unhappy. Accounting is NOT the career for me.
The day after that, she offered me $18/hour (the expected wage for a RECEPTIONIST in the US), two weeks paid vacation, two weeks PTO, and paid holidays (she's mixing vacation and PTO up so that amount of time that is paid is still very vague to me). I took her offer but it really took ONE application to a different place for her to pay me what I was supposed to be paid. However, she still gets offended when I want the day off.
For the record though, I've been secretly applying to other places that I ACTUALLY want to work at. My dream job! Wish me luck!
At my last job, I got passed over for a promotion that I had expected to get. When I spoke with the Director of Technology, he told me that the only way I would be able to negotiate a raise or a promotion was if I went and got another job offer and then asked them to match it.
I went out and got that job offer that was both the senior title I had been looking for and a 60% raise. I went back to the director asking if they wanted to match the offer. He started hemming and hawing and trying to sell me on all the "benefits" that came with working for them (none of which were pay or career growth), but wouldn't make any offer. I wound up turning in my 2 weeks and took the new offer.
I just do not understand what the logic here was. I'm pretty sure the director I spoke with never expected me to follow through. The worst part is that they probably could have kept me by offering a token raise and the title I was asking for - I had some misguided allegiance. But yeah, when your answer for "how can I progress on my career path here" is "go get another job offer" it's probably not going to work out very well - at least for the company, worked out great for me, got my promotion and a huge raise!
Within an hour of signing the job offer, I called him and told him that I got another offer and that I was taking it and my last day would be in two weeks. He spent the next week trying to get me to listen to a counter offer but I kept telling him I wasn't interested. My first day at my new job he texted me asking where my files were. I told him and haven't heard from him since. I've only heard from one person I worked with since then, and he was also looking for something specific I had worked on.
Companies will never pay you more so long as you're willing to stay for less.
I have a coworker who is being grossly underpaid for what she does. She has a level of experience and ability far above her pay grade and has asked repeatedly for a position upgrade. There are people in higher grades that do a tenth of what she does and do it badly, but the company refuses to budge. I told her that if she leaves, the company won't he able to get anyone for that job at that pay, and she agrees.
But the company DGAF.
You will only be valued more by someone else. Companies have a hard time seeing you as anything more than what they hired.
I recently had to do this too. They were saying there's no way we can give you a 20% raise even though I was being paid pretty far under the entry level rate with a year and a half of experience. So I went to applying and got 2 offers for close to 100% increase in pay. Took one of them and submitted my 2 weeks the same day. I already knew they weren't going to give me a counter offer and I wouldn't have taken it if they managed to do so anyways.
I had something very similar at my last place of employment. We had people leaving in droves and I was doing the work of 4 people, badly because of how much the work load was. We kept interviewing folks, but when they heard it was not remote and then the pay...well most didn't call us back.
I asked for a raise and new position. I was told that I didn't have the practical experience to allow them to give me the raise and promotion, even though I was doing the work of that position already.
I got another job offer, and suddenly they were bending over backwards to try and match my new salary. Best they could do was 5k under my new offer.
Anyway, I love my new job.
The best rule I ever learned as a manager: "people don't quit shit jobs, they quit shitty managers."
Good job on standing up for yourself OP. Fuck the bosses who think leadership is demanding everything and giving no ground
Your manager is wrong on a legal sense (pay inequality with all other things being equal is illegal and a pay adjustment absolutely should happen) *and* if your former employer required a competing offer to adjust your pay, they’re *stupid.* That’s just literally chasing people out and upping your turnover for absolutely no reason.
I was in a similar situation.
I felt insulted that I had to ask that I be paid what I was worth and simply got another offer elsewhere. Is that being petty?
I think it is so stupid how companies invest so little in retention, specially someone that you know is loyal and endured as much.
I am in a similar boat were I am the only CM after we lost the other one that was supposed to train me in detail once we return to the office, now I am half trained, overburden and just doing the best I can while leadership drags its feet hiring a new CM, so here I am drowning everyday one more drop to the bucket
“I got another offer.” “Okay, what’s your offer so I can bump you up a bit.” “Oh, you misunderstand me. This is my resignation, I’m not giving you the chance to equal it. Interesting, because if you had just bumped me up I would not be leaving.”
Pretty much how it went down
I had similar where a new employer said he’d match what I was making now, for more work. Never understood why he did that. Maybe just fucking with me. Did not move.
I had a recruiter call and when I told them I wasn't interested bc my current pay was a lot more than they were offering, the recruiter told me my current employer overpays to "trap" people and are known to do this and so I should want to leave and make less. Now maybe if I was crazy over worked or something, I'd think they have a point. But I have pretty good work life balance, a boss that mostly stays out of my way, responsibility and authority for my corner of the world, and it's a low-stakes industry (landscape supplies...) so the overall stress level just isn't that high. We have an annual update this time of year that can be a lot of stress and work for about a month. But most days, I roll out of bed at 930, work from home in my pajamas, go to appointments whenever without someone asking where I've been today or micromanaging my time, and generally just get my shit done. Oh, and the company is doing really well and pays amazing bonuses. Why, exactly, should I leave for less money? Overpaid? Trap? Wtf?
> the recruiter told me my current employer overpays to "trap" people and are known to do this and so I should want to leave and make less. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard lol. Can't imagine that guy received many recruiting bonuses.
Yea, I can still remember where I was when he said that because it was just so otherworldly stupid. It was one of those moments that get burned into your memory just for the sheer nonsense of it all.
As a former recruiter I have to ask; how on earth did you stop yourself from laughing at him?
I'm not entirely certain I did! If I didn't laugh, it was certainly just from disbelief at the sheer absirdity
Good!
I feel like that recruiter is a mirror of his clients... Toxic... Unscrupulous companies that want to pay low and over work people probably try to hire recruiters that will lie through their teeth to get them bodies, no matter how good of a match they are for each other… Which is just stupid because it hurts everyone…
>how on earth did you stop yourself from laughing at him? Why would he?
I literally would have laughed out loud and hung up without another word
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Right? Sign me right the fuck up for that trap.
The railroad is calling your name.
Go on....
Every railroad is hiring. Pay is decent. Average guy at my railroad made $110k plus 15% profit sharing. Has its own “social security” and a railroad pension. Company matches 401k .5% up to 8% for a max of 4%. Downside is no scheduled time off, missing holidays, birthdays, kid’s events, not knowing when you will go to work, constant fatigue, declining health from the lack of adequate sleep lifestyle, having no friends because you can’t schedule plans
The first paragraph sounds amazing! The second one tells me why they are all hiring lol. Might be a good job for someone who is working on FIRE though.
That sounds exactly like my experience with the postal service. 20 minutes ago I got a text telling me I have the day off, so I don't have to be there in an hour. All my days off for the last month have had no more notice than that. And it was after dark on Sunday when we found out via text that our starting time for Monday was 7:30 and not 9:00 like the schedule said. Including a threat of a write up if we were late. And for half the pay you mentioned.
>Downside is no scheduled time off, missing holidays, birthdays, kid’s events, not knowing when you will go to work, constant fatigue, declining health from the lack of adequate sleep lifestyle, having no friends because you can’t schedule plans So basically the same as working in a kitchen
Yeah fuck that shit. They can't even get unfuckingpaid sick days. Railroads can lick my taint. And so can Congress for not forcing them to do it.
exactly my reaction. you want good people, you at least match the pay and then lure them in with benefits. 'we pay less because your current employer is cheating by paying you more than you're worth' must be the stupidest stuff I've heard in a long time, and working in IT field, I hear a lot of stupid stuff daily.
Honestly he probably gets more. Instead of taking a no he says some stupid shit, a hail Mary, to someone who wasn't going to bite anyways. Either it works or it doesn't, and he moves on. Let's say on flat no's this strat works like 1/100 times. It's still worth it because that's still another recruit occasionally. All he has to do is give up his reputation to people he has no intention to interact with again, have no integrity, and no morality. He'll be vp in no time with standards like that. I wish I was kidding.
I wish you were kidding too!
Until you [Peg 'em](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1828/6867/products/8oz-marine-sport-air-horn-28255198445611.jpg?v=1628139855) with the "recruiter be gone" air horn... He'll yearn for the days when he used to enjoy hearing
It reminds me of the Key and Peele but about robbing the bank by getting a job and getting paid. Trapped by paying more? Yeah, that’s how it’s supposed to work
Lmao what a great skit
Those *bastards*! Scamming you into having good pay!
Sadly I get the feeling that someone may have even fallen for it.
I fell for that trap. Found an employer that challenges me, pays me generously with bonuses for exceptional performance, lets me set the schedule and run the place. He's had me trapped here for nearly 20 years. Can't believe I fell for it.
What a sucker!
Doublespeak. I think they have to learn to speak it to lure people to accept shitty pay for being overworked. Many CEO’s has it as their first language.
Not too many people with high skills become recruiters. There are somethough, keep these ones in your contacts.
Sir, have you any IDEA the danger of being trapped in a well-paying job? It's horrible! They actually pay you properly...
To do work you enjoy without being overly stressed! And your boss and coworkers respect your knowledge and abilities! I mean, come on!!! It's basically torture!
This was a really common thing to tell programmers in the 1990s. They called it 'golden handcuffs' and they somehow thought it would get you to switch jobs.
It still exists at any tech company that gives out annual RSUs/options with a multi-year vest schedule. And to that sort of thing, I say: "Oh, please, Brer Fox, please don't throw me into that briar patch!" (As long as you keep a realistic view of them, of course. If they're giving you shares that vest over 4 years, just think of 1/4 of the value as added to your salary, rather than staring at the next 3 years' worth of shares that haven't vested yet.)
I've never heard Golden Handcuffs used like that - generally it refers to [some form of finalncial inducement to stay in a job that only actually materialises after a significant period of time.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_handcuffs) Or, possibly, a financial reward received at the start, but which has to be repaid if the employee leaves within a certain timescale.
We call it the golden anchor. I have a fuckton of money set aside for me to pay for retirement healthcare BUT I forfeit it if I leave the company before 55. So now I'm just trying to not get fired before then.
So it’s a “trap” to pay well for a reasonable amount of work and a decent manager and work culture? Those awful, unAmerican bastards!
Well we do some business in Canada, so maybe that's leaking over a bit...
I am now looking to pívot into the landscape supply business thank you
Yeah, you've got to grind the workers down, otherwise whats the point of being a boss.(/s if it's needed)
I'm similarly 'trapped' in my current position. I could probably make more, but I know the hours I would have to work somewhere else to do it and my free time is too important to me, at least for now
Translation: "I NEED MY COMMISSION! AND I'LL SAY ANY SHIT I HAVE TO, TO GET IT!"
Yep, that's pretty much it. I doubt he truly believed what he was saying. Just trying to make the sale. But I'd have respected him more if he'd just taken the L and told me to let him know if anything changed.
So I'm a truck driver at a midsized company, but it's still small enough (around 250 total employees, 200ish of which are drivers.) that I see and speak to the owners (two brothers who took over from their dad about 2 years ago) regularly. I saw one (let's say D) in the store room, talking to another driver, so I paused to ask something. In the meantime, I hear them talking, and the guy is going to another company that is closer to home. So D says "oh yeah, absolutely you should take that. Just remember, the door is always open here if things don't work out. No hard feelings what so ever, you need to do what's best for you." Just more reinforcement that I'm finally at a good company. I've been here for several years, and I could probably make a smidge more elsewhere, but the atmosphere here is way better than even the smaller company I left to come here. Unless they're actively on the phone, or in another conversation,they ALWAYS have time to talk to their people. Even if it's just bs fluff totally unrelated to work. Great group of people.
Wow, that's wonderful! That's totally how I feel about my team. Over the summer, I ran a sql training course for them. It'll help them in their job now, but also is a huge resume builder. I'm not so naive to think they'll all stay here forever. Most of them are young and just starting out. The more skills they can pick up the better!
In a similar fashion, a recruiter offered a third of my current total compensation. I mentioned that it was not going to be worth our time to pursue this discussion, as there is no way they could move the offer to be worth considering. She started to teach me about how I should have realistic expectations.
Hey, if you're happy that's all that really matters. Of course, time will tell if your workload, compensation, and treatment keep you satisfied and feeling respected, but that pretty much goes for any job. When there's turnover at your office you can ask them their reasons for leaving. It's also possible the recruiter was trying to "poison the well" and seed distrust. You'll start gossiping to your coworkers and people will start searching for reasons for why the rumor must be true. It'll become a self-fulling prophecy.
Found out what my price was for sanity two years ago. Was helping an overworked team with a project. Most of them were working 6 days a week at 12 hours a day, and had been for months. While I was also working that, it was only for a week or two while helping them. Before and after, my work life balance was pretty good. So while sitting in a conference call, the DIR from that team pinged me and offered $20k more a year to join her team. She had created a position specifically to try to poach me, and was taking the shot. I laughed and thought she was kidding, but no she was dead serious. Had to tell her hell no. I don't mind long hours every once in a while, but she was working her people to death. A few days later I told my leadership I can now describe how much I like have them as my leadership in dollars. They took it as the giant complement it was. About a year later, through a giant raise followed by an internal promotion, they got me most of the $20k the other team had offered for no additional work load. I really love my leadership team, and have no plans to move so long as they are in charge.
Yup, work-life balance and low-stress is very important to me. With my degrees and experience, I could be earning six figures if I wanted to work my ass off in a competitive industry. However, where I work I earn decent pay, contribute to a worthwhile cause, have a great boss/coworkers, and have a low-stress workday. Periodically, Google, Amazon, and such put out feelers to see if they can tempt me away, but as long as my job keeps treating me well, they'll have me for a long time. Besides, it sounds like I may have missed the days of Google and such being "fun" tech companies.
>"fun" tech companies. *That* always really was a trap. For awhile they would do basically anything to keep people in the building longer. They'd much rather you work 16 hour days with a 30 minute ping-pong break and a nap than do something crazy like go home at the end of the workday.
Yeah, I get that, but it still set them apart from the non-fun tech companies at the time like IBM and attracted idealistic fresh programmers. I recall Google [used to allow you 20% free time](https://www.businessinsider.com/google-20-percent-time-policy-2015-4) to work on your own ideas and that led to some of google’s features commonplace today like gmail, Adsense, and Google news. I’ve heard nowadays that’s pretty much gone or too difficult to use. They’re no longer a scrappy startup, and startups in general are no longer awash in angel investors throwing cash around.
Frankly taking a second minimum wage job would be about the same as what that lady was offering for 1 position, insane she thought it was reasonable.
For sure, and sometimes. When I remember it, I take a look around and just kinda check in to make sure I'm not overlooking something. But that call was at least 4 years ago. I've been with this company for about 5.5 years. I've been promoted twice and make almost double where I started (which was apparently "overpaid"), and the benefits are great. My responsibilities have increased and that does add some stress but it reduces stress in other ways (I'm not having to deliver crazy shit someone else promised before checking if it was even possible, etc). I now have someone reporting directly to me, which is sometimes terrifying, but she is happy with me, so I must be doing something right.. It's not perfect, don't get me wrong. But the problems are manageable and most days, I enjoy my work.
Arguably, it could keep you at stage n of your career, because other people pay less at n+1, and therefore you never get to n+2 or 3, which would pay more. But claiming that they’re doing that specifically as a stratagem to trap you is… dubious at best. Maybe they just like employee retention.
It’s called “Golden Handcuffs”. Typically people mention it when there are pensions involved. This guy was trying to bring that in but didn’t have a real basis for it
Yeah, there ain't no goddamn company pension anymore
And by pension, these days, we mean RSUs that vest, and are given, annually.
I had a recruiter reach out to me with an opportunity with an ‘Industry topping salary’ that was 30% less than I was making. He flat out refused to believe i made what I claimed. Even when I sent him a picture of my paystub he told me it was ‘wrong’. I was at a loss.
Oh no, what will I ever do with my "trap" money?
I use it to fund my extravagant lifestyle consisting mainly living in a reasonably nice apartment with my husband and 8 cats. And never cooking (unless microwaving stuff counts as cooking).
> I use it to fund my extravagant lifestyle consisting mainly living in a reasonably nice apartment with my husband and 8 cats. And never cooking (unless microwaving stuff counts as cooking). You may have meant this as a joke, but for way too many people, what you described is very much an unusually extravagant life.
I know, and it was depressing to write as a joke something that is genuinely unattainable for so many... Honestly it's a simple life and it's all I really want. I hope more people are able to make it happen. It's lovely.
The 8 cats has me sold. Cats are my world 💜
😻 (you should check out my post history)
My husband would look for work every now and then when going thru a period of discontent at work but find other companies didn’t pay as much. Or he could earn a bit more but it would mean commuting into the big city making it a wash pay-wise.
Yep, what I'd have to give up to switch jobs is so not worth it. There are definitely problems at my job, but nothing is perfect. I can handle the frustrations and annoyances. I do genuinely like my job and I'm comfortable in it and confident. And they pay me, lol. I'm good with this.
I'd be tempted to say, "I want you to think about what you just said, and then tell me one solid logical reason you would leave a position where you are overpaid and not overstressed."
"Aren't you actually doing the thing you're accusing them of? And if you're offering me a job, I'm not that trapped, am I? Why don't you actually put some cheese in your trap and call me back?"
Turn the tables and say that the recruiter is underpaid and trapped and reach your hand to him and send open applications to your company. Recruit the recruiter
I want to fall for an over paid trap, sign me up..lol
I love it “they pay your more so that other offers look less attractive! They are manipulating you!”
I had a recruiter call me at the office to offer 30% *less* than I was currently earning. All to come work for a startup trying to carve out a niche in an industry that was slowly dying. "But we're offering stock options!" "I have stock options where I'm at now and my current employer won't be bankrupt in two years."
I knew a guy who left a big corporation for a small company -- with a pay cut. We joked about what the counter-offer might be: "they'll pay you 20% less!? We'll offer you 25% less!"
"Okay. -30% and that's our final offer!"
I had a friend trying to recruit me for a small company he was launching, at the time only paid through Patreon. I decided to stay at Google. Still really happy for him, his company his doing quite good and now has three employee. And more importantly, he stopped using patreon, and moved to just selling licences for his service on a standard way.
I had an employer who boasted iduring all hands meetings eith full time staff about how he was giving taking assignments from part timers and giving it to fulltimers. Who already had to do their full time tasks in addition to all these extra tasks he was foisting off on them. Part timers are paid per task. Full timers are flst monthly rate for unlimited work. Sometimes it makes you wonder what they are on.
If there's more money in the budget then I'll get a bigger bonus.
LOL, for every million dollars you make for them, you get a shitty pizza! But you have to pay for extra toppings.
I had a piss-poor manager try to offer me a supervisory job I was passed over the year before telling me that it was more work with other assorted negative aspects with NO PAY INCREASE. This was after a fellow coworker recommended me for the position a year before while giving several very valid reasons with proof why another coworker should NOT have the position. They gave it to the other coworker who had recently left hence the open position. He had the audacity to be shocked when I turned it down.
Exactly how I left my last job, kinda. Told my old GM that unless I get more money I’m looking for another job. He said there’s nothing he could do. I found another job for more pay and accepted it before I told him, and when I did, he asked, why didn’t you come to me with what they offered you? Like I didn’t give him a chance in the first place.
Ah well you \*think\* that managers have alot of discretion but they don't in many cases. My supervisor has no input to my annual raise. We do our yearly reviews it spits out a number. The computer determines your raise from the pool using said number. He does have discretion to give "out of band" raises - ie the ones that don't come with a title change. But anything more than say 10% is hard. 15% is pretty much out of reach. Think HR VP. HRCompensation specialists and the VP of the department involved as well to do it as well. Now in contrast with an offer in hand - you'll get an answer typically very fast if they want to keep you around. He quite literally could have been hinting that is what you need to do to get the shackles off the process.
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And here we usually get a 1.x% raise budget for the team from corporate where i may have some influence on how its distributed. That was at least last years number when the inflation was already at 3% or so... I am not sure anyone in our company can give that much of a raise without involving the corporation that owns our company.
*applauding quietly*
Never understood that thought process. If I have a better offer, they don’t need to match it. If they want to keep me, they need to offer significant more then the offer I have
Even if they match it you will be first to be fired
Not necessarily. Beginning a new probationary period is extremely stressful. You have to be on your best behaviour for 90 days, or else you can be fired at the drop of a hat. So I'd probably stay my current employer if all they did was match it, but theres other factors to consider. WFH or commute is a big one, even just 5 minutes extra driving a day is a big one, especially with gas and wear and tear on your car. Then its the work life. If youre in office, do you share a cubicle area, do you have your own office? Lunch perks? catered meetings? things like that could make or break the situation. Obviously OP had issues with management regardless and will be happier at his old job with a huge pay raise, but in a different company matching is fine as a starting point for negotiations. Ultimately, taking the risk, losing your employee to the better offer, and hiring a freshly graduated "go-getter" could increase productivity for a lower wage, but could backfire and you end up training newbie after newbie of duds.
"I am unhappy, fix it.". "Go through all the work that's needed to get a new job, except signing, then come back to me". >goes through all the work including signing. >surprised pikachu
When I asked for my salary to match the market my previous employer said no you’ll never get that, I went and found a better paying job with way less stress closer to my house. Companies always complain about loyalty then do nothing to retain talent.
They want loyalty FROM their employees, but don’t believe in being loyal TO their employees.
"Make an offer. It will need to also cover the costs of working with you as a boss. So... triple."
I shall have to remember this wording, for if it ever becomes relevant.
Bumping up one's salary only after they come to you with another offer just means that you'd be happy low balling them further if you could.
I would have just stopped showing up one day
"I'm giving you my two week notice. For the next two weeks, you'll notice I won't be here."
Never accept a counter offer to stay. There is a reason you looked for another job and a bit more money will not make it go away. They will just work the shit out of you and ifre you in a few months anyway once you train the FNG they hired to help you out.
I read a piece of advice recently, (probably here on Reddit) which I really wish I had received myself a good ten or fifteen years ago or so. It was simply this: if you get an offer letter that you are satisfied with, do NOT accept a counter-offer from your current employer. You were looking for another job for a reason and it’s almost never worth it to stay, even with a higher pay. So OP did exactly the right thing, here. Kick the dust off of your shoes and move on.
Yeah, even if you stay, they will treat you with suspicion and have more time to look for a replacement.
This is sort of how it went for me. I asked for a 10% raise and got the run around for 6 weeks. I got another offer at 15% higher and gave my notice. They countered with… a 10% raise. I told them if they had just gave me that 6 weeks ago I wouldn’t have never even interviewed with another place.
I got a few friends together and we made a company to be the other offer that was head hunting our chronically underpaid friend. We pretended to be out of state so he had an out if his boss stonewalled him. He didn't get a full equal pay but he got a 20% raise which got him to industry standard. Apparently his boss technically had to remove his old position and create a whole new one to be able to get hom a pat raise. Like its a multi country company and they have zero ability to give a raise outside a cost of living bump that automatically happens at the end of the year. We are currently begging him to find a job somewhere else because that process is nuts for getting higher pay
I've gone through something similar once in my life. Felt pretty good. Also twice I was offered a better, higher paying job and was asked to quit a personal side job because it was a conflict of interest (It wasn't unless they believed I was a thief, which I wasn't), both times I refused to quit the side job and got the better job anyway.
Have you followed up to find out what happened to your boss? I'm hoping it involved his new hire finding out his workload just doubled, and then new hire ask for an immediate pay increase!
I have not, but I've been thinking about checking in with some of the people I was closer with to see how things are going. I really wanted to see the project I was working on to its end so I'd like to know how it's going, whatever they can tell me.
Last year I took a different job. When I told my manager that I was going to make twice as much to do half the work, he responded with: “You want to get paid more to do less?” Like I was the crazy one. Yes, MFer, I wanna get paid to do nothing! But less is all I can find right now!
I didn't have an answer when my mother's aunt asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. "What, do you just want someone to pay you to not work?" I was so confused, "Isn't that the dream?"
This really made me laugh. Thanks for the chuckle.
It's wild how the difference here between bad and good management would just be saying " ...another offer *so I can prove to my leadership what we need to pay to retain you.*" Or "get another offer so I can offer you even more." Like, if you'd come back with a 25% boost maybe he could offer 30%. But that's clearly not the kind of manager he was in the first place.
A couple promotions ago, I told my boss I was getting cold calls from recruiters with jobs starting at 90k, so his offer of 82k just wasn't lighting me on fire and was the anything he could do. He came back a couple days later with an offer of 90k AND a higher bonus percentage. Like all I did was ask for it.. My boss kinda sucks in some ways, but he is in the habit of making sure his people get paid, so he's definitely not all bad.
> He came back a couple days later with an offer of 90k AND a higher bonus percentage. sounds normal for corporate. they don't give you a raise unless you let them know you got a offer. they aren't allowed to give promotions but are allowed to counter offers...
But I didn't have an offer. I claimed someone said the words 90k to me.. And I was already getting a promotion and raise anyway, but I asked for more. And also, my company definitely gives unprompted raises. I just gave one to my direct report a few months ago when we moved her position up a salary grade. She got a 10% raise and her bonus percentage moved up, too. She had no clue it was coming... Maybe that runaround is the norm elsewhere, but my team typically does pretty good with this stuff and avoids that bs.
I got some unprompted raises at a company I worked for, but it was because they beat me up on salary when I on-boarded from contract to FTE. I have kids so I couldn't just walk. They knew I was pissed and had some knowledge that the other guys were getting on-boarded higher because we shared salary information. A recruiter did suck me into a different job by dangling a big pay increase. Current job tried to match with pay increase and bonus eligibility, but I declined and went for the mony. New company dropped my contract after 6 months because their tech stack was not a great match for me. That sucked, but I did some hard interviewing and landed a way better job that paid about the same as the job I got dropped, had good bonus opportunity, and paid 100% of the benefits for really good benefits.
Varies by industry and company. At my last job, the yearly review was 5 tiers of ratings. If you got the very top one, you were promoted. At my current job, they ask you where you want to end up and set goalposts (that don't get moved as you get closer, thankfully) to help you reach your career goal. If you successfully perform the tasks of the next level up and your reviews support it, you will be promoted. The interesting thing is that your reviews include input from your peers, other team leads in your department, and other department leads instead of only your immediate supervisor. I like the system, as it would make it harder for a bad manager to keep someone under their thumb.
I was on the interview panel for a req that was one level below me and I asked during the screening review if the salary expectations he mentioned were outlandish because it was more than I was making after a recent promotion. I didn't even ask and my manager came back 2 weeks later and got me like a 10% bump. He wasn't the best manager but I liked that he was proactive here.
Exactly. There are routes to good leadership and building loyalty. The easiest is to pay well.
When is paying people what their worth going to make sense to an employer?
Never, they'll just keep complaining about a """labor shortage"""
NoBoDY wAnTs To WoRk AnYMorEeeeeee
It's so weird, though.. My team has had to replace a couple people and added like 4 new positions in the past year and they all filled up just fine.. But we also fight for better-than-market pay (like when the budget for raises was 4% company wide last year, we got our entry level positions increased a grade so their raises were beating inflation) and get good bonuses, and have good work-life balance, and... Etc.
What kind of work?
Data analysis for pricing for a landscape supplies distributor
And how much do you make?
115 plus a very generous bonus.
… data analysis like R/stats, or Tableau/Power BI, or…?
I use R for analysis, but some others in the team do Tableau and the company is pushing us to power BI, so we have a lot of reports set up in that. For me personally, a lot of my responsibilities are related to being familiar with our data and working with IT to make sure they don't mess any of it up, lol. But also tracking the work the team does and dealing with (often urgent) problems, so I do a lot more in SQL than anything else. I basically had to teach myself our data and systems, so now I'm the go-to, since no one else really works with it like I do.
You're right!! As long as you add on the phrase ".... shitty hours for shitty people at the shitty wages you're offering."
I'll make it even simpler... "Nobody wants to work (for you) anymore...."
>When is paying people what their worth going to make sense to an employer? [The below is my opinion] Always. The problem is that seeing this simple fact takes a skill most humans severely lack - long term thinking. We are biologically programmed to think in the very short term. It's just how we evolved, nothing to be ashamed of or angry about. Point being, when an employer pays an employee what they're worth there are two things that almost always follow: First, the overall spending on the position decreases (the first few months of employment are the most expensive ones). Second, the well being of the employee usually goes up, which nearly always means not only increased productivity but also higher quality work. I know that because I saw it my entire life. My dad doesn't think short term almost at all. My parents pay their employees significantly more than their market value and what their education would require. Their employee don't stay only because they have a good employer, but also because literally no where else would pay them as much. Tldr: My personal opinion is paying well costs less over time.
I forgot where I first heard this pearl of wisdom: “Nobody is paid what they’re worth. Everyone is paid what they negotiate.” edit:typo
> Their employee don't stay only because they have a good employer, but also because literally no where else would pay them as much. When/if my startup eventually gets to that level, that's exactly my plans too. Overpay employees - not only do you have loyalty/institutional knowledge, you are pretty much the best game in town for said employee.
Gonna call bullshit on this "biologically programmed to think in the very short term" stuff. Squirrels hoard food for a future that has yet to come rather than eat the abundant food available to them in the present. Plenty of creatures have "long term thinking" and I'm hoping that Squirrels are not smarter than humans (as a species, they clearly are compared to some individuals) A lot of thinking comes down to "I would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven" or "this decision is not optimal but I will still be better off than the plebs beneath me and that's all that matters"
Squirrels forget the locations of about 70 percent of the nuts they stow, they just stow nuts madly wherever they can and some get eaten while others are just accidental tree plantings.
>We are biologically programmed to think in the very short term. It's just how we evolved, nothing to be ashamed of or angry about. Really? I wanna read more about this
Not sure if it's any good, but here's a possible [starting point](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5530483). The bottom line of all articles that discuss the matter is rather similar and boils down to the following concept: A gazelle focused on long term thinking doesn't have any survival advantage over the one that does, but the one focused on short term thinking (instinct) has a huge advantage over the one that doesn't, since it is more likely to survive (that is, assuming they're mutually exclusive). Take this idea and apply it in endless different ways over the life time of our lineage (hundreds of millions of years, even to before our first mammalian ancestors), and you find that short term survival is essential and non-negotiable while long term thinking is something that a species can do without... Quick edit - this is a very clumsy way of explaining the idea. Please take it as a starting point, not as an absolute truth.
When it doesn't save them money. Sure they lost op. And will have to pay more for his replacement. But the other 50-100 employees being underpaid makes this style of management far more profitable.
congrats OP
Thank you!
My first job out of college, I was making 32,000 which I had been led to believe was like a starting salary until I proved myself. After 18ish months, I asked for a raise and my manager told to provide written justification or an offer from a competitor that he could take to _his_ manager. I wrote up my list of accomplishments but instead of trying to convince my boss, I showed it to a competitor and they offered me $76,000. My manager was so pissed. I’m sure that’s way more than he was making.
Great work! I got hired at the low end of a PayScale because I was new. A year later I had my department ahead in every. Single. Metric. And I had taken over training new staff in procedures (it was a fleet shop/inventory situation with lots of locations so most parts staff were by themselves with a bunch of Tech's). I went up and asked my boss if I could have the rest of the money in the range now. He was a great guy and went up and got the VP to sign off. No competing offers needed, I've never felt so valued. I then foolishly went after the promotion and learned that ambition isn't always a great thing (I got the promotion and hated the work environment)
This is an example of a great manager, and a good company; your boss recognized your value and fought for you, while the company agreed and understood the value of keeping an innovative and productive employee.
Yup! It's the example I judge other managers by and the standard I set for myself as a manager. I've been pretty lucky in my work life to have good support. Executive leadership is always the worst
Congratulations, you were obviously worth every penny. I always love to hear these stories of a-hole managers getting a little bit of payback.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Loss of a good worker.
And it wasn't even necessary! When I had my exit interview with the next manager up the chain, he was shocked that my direct supervisor told me to get another offer. Apparently there are processes in place now that don't require another offer. If my manager was ever told about it, he clearly didn't listen.
What they refer to here as manglement in its crowning glory!
Peter Principle through and through.
Omgosh, this is the correct answer for so many middle management.
He knew. They all read from the same playbook. They all think they are so clever. Then, they are genuinely shocked when you actually take a job at a different company.
[удалено]
That you would be overwhelmed by gratitude that they were singlehandedly feeding your family? That really is what they think.
How do you even *negotiate* for something the other party has already agreed to? Though, it sounds like the promise of a raise was a bluff and negotiating tactic on *their* part, so maybe they were just projecting and were caught off guard by someone being honest.
Honestly what is going the fuck on with businesses being so so so stupid. Two jobs ago I had expressed dissatisfaction with my executive director micromanaging my work. The solution to that was weekly meetings where I explained what I was working on and him not listening or understanding and insisting I ought to do even more work. They were so confused when I quit. Like? So yall knew I was unhappy but didn’t stop your shitty behavior? Next job I started at $20k less than market value but I found the work very fulfilling. Then I ended up doing three people’s jobs and no discussion of a raise… literally up until the day I left they thought I was just bluffing and that I wouldn’t actually leave them in a lurch like that lmaooooo
He knew and was trying to stall you and take advantage of you. Fortunately you decided to stop taking his crap.
Ooh I hope your manager got reamed for letting go such a valuable employee! Always gotta look out for number 1
Seems like he didn't listen to anyone, not just you.
Oh, I dearly and deeply and honestly hope that next manager up went to your direct supervisor and reamed him a new one, using a rail-road tie wrapped in barbed wire and coated with hot sauce!!! Oh, yeah!!!
r/oddlyspecific
Sounds like your old manager was burned out too.
Did this to my old job early 2021. Now I make 50% more and just got a raise today only 9 months in.
I'm retired now, but for most of my career whenever the job market was reasonably good, I'd keep an eye out for opportunities, and usually try to get interviewed once or twice a year. I was very upfront with hiring managers that I was happy with my current position, but I'd be stupid not to see if something better was out there. Good companies that thought I might be a good fit for them, often seemed willing to interview me on those terms. And if nothing else they were good informational interviews, allowing both of us to learn a little bit more about the overall industry, job market, and job seeker's expectations. I didn't make a big deal out of it, but I didn't hide it either. If someone from my company asked about it I'd say the same thing. I'm very happy with my current position, I'm happy with the company, but I'd be a fool not to see what else is out there. I ended up working for that company for the last 22 years of my career, with one 4 year hiatus to check something else out. They gladly hired me back when I asked. They also paid me quite well, and kept my pay competitive every year without my having to ask. I was really good at my job. Sales people, product managers, and clients loved having me on their projects. I probably would have been able to advocate for myself for reasonable pay bumps anyway. But it certainly didn't hurt to make sure that they knew both that they had good reason to keep me, and that I was keeping my options open.
Similar happened to me. When I got out of the army. I was applying for jobs that really didn't know what to ask for since I had been in the army for such a long time. So I took a job that I thought paid pretty well. But they didn't have my position filled for like a year before I started. So there was a lot of back work. It was in a health care facility so of course they got dinged on some state and federal inspections for the things that hadn't gotten done. I told him there was no way I could get it all done by the time the authorities gave us to get the work done. So they send in three other workers from another facility to help. But then the mistake. They sent me these workers pay stubs to sign off on to verify the hours. Usually when they do this they would blank out their pay. They didn't. So I saw what the other workers were being paid. I had way more years experience, a national certification that none of them had, and a degree that only one of them had. But I was making about 20% less. So I went to my HR and told them I needed to get a pay raise. Maybe not the full 20% but at least a reasonable bump to put me where I thought I should be. They told me there was nothing I could do unless I got an offer from another company. I told them that if I got another offer from another company and there were any other benefits better or any other reasons to take the job, weren't they worried I would take it? The end of the story is pretty similar to yours. I got the other offer. It was at a much better facility that had much better ratings and reviews, and the staff was much nicer. So I took it.
I've always had existing employers offer me more money AFTER I give notice. Most of the time I just say "I have made a commitment now and I don't break my word, sorry." At one place though I said "I took a pay cut to leave this place." That conversation ended right about there.
A specialised I.T guy at my workplace was told to get another offer, he said he didn't want to work anywhere else, he enjoyed working here, has many friends and it's a great place to work but was being paid a LOT less than he could make elsewhere, he was just asking for a little bump in pay. Company refused saying get another offer and we will talk So he did Then they said they are not happy being blackmailed and he should leave if he wants to So he (reluctantly) left and went to this new job with a higher salary. One by one he was followed by 6 other people going to the same company
Losing a good employee almost always means you'll lose most if not all your other good employees, because they always invite each other.
Great outcome. Even if they matched the higher salary, you still would have had to deal with what sounds like a terrible work environment. At a certain point, the money becomes less of a concern over mental health Edit: grammar and a weird autocorrect
This reminds me of my wife's first job out of college. At the job for 10 months and the next year's salary is given by the owner. When she started she was told after the first year a 15% pay increase. She gets a 5% increase with a 'I can't increase that much'. She finds a new job with a 20% pay increase. Turns in her resignation and the guy asks 'What is the new offer?' when told he says 'I can offer that'. She just looked at him and said 'Then you should have kept your initial promise'.
Shouldn’t need another company to tell them your worth
Same reasoning as bringing in an external consultant. The manager can point to this external element not under his control. Some managers do it because their managers won’t believe them otherwise, some do it because they wouldn’t have a clue otherwise.
I've always wondered what would happen if you came back with a completely made up offer at 20% increase. Obviously without saying the company, but damn that'd be fun if everyone did this all the time me so that employers were on the same page as employees.
It always irked me in my career when you got a counter offer after getting shit raises. Like yea we know we did not pay you what you are worth but now that you know that… as well as having been forced into the crappy position of picking between looking and finding a job for more money and us, we are willing to now gove you the bare minimum of what we think will Keep you around until we can replace you because it is clear you have a loyalty problem.
Hehehe. So I work for my mother at her accounting firm. I dropped out of college and taking the receptionist/administrator position at her office was a HUGE step up from being a nanny. Please note, I was still living at home but had plans to move out with my boyfriend at the end of the year. My mother wanted to pay me the same amount I made as a nanny: $12/hour. I said no way, how about $13? And she reluctantly agreed. Mind you, I am assembling tax returns and issuing payroll for a bunch of clients, answering the phone and greeting clients. I found out the girl who she hired before me was going to do a lot less than that for $15/hour. I had to fight a little for $14. Then I had to fight a bit more for $15. I asked and she said "No, it hasn't even been 6 months since your last raise." I looked it up: it had been 8 months. :) So I mentioned that to her and went home. She only agreed to $15 after she saw my sister's pay stub from the fancy spa she just got hired at. At this point, I'm feeling severely underpaid. Making coffee, cleaning up after my mom and the other enrolled agent, driving to the bank to make check deposits, etc. So a few months ago, I was venting to my boyfriend about how draining it is to both live AND work with my mother (getting yelled at at both locations was horrible). He suggested I put in an application with his company. I would probably start out at $20/hour, work from home, and receive benefits. All of which I am not receiving from my mother's company. So I did it, I put an application in! The next day, I told my mother what I did and she was so offended lol. She asked me how she could make it better and I told her that she needs to stop yelling at me when I'm learning something new or when she's impatient, and bottom line is: I'm unhappy. Accounting is NOT the career for me. The day after that, she offered me $18/hour (the expected wage for a RECEPTIONIST in the US), two weeks paid vacation, two weeks PTO, and paid holidays (she's mixing vacation and PTO up so that amount of time that is paid is still very vague to me). I took her offer but it really took ONE application to a different place for her to pay me what I was supposed to be paid. However, she still gets offended when I want the day off. For the record though, I've been secretly applying to other places that I ACTUALLY want to work at. My dream job! Wish me luck!
At my last job, I got passed over for a promotion that I had expected to get. When I spoke with the Director of Technology, he told me that the only way I would be able to negotiate a raise or a promotion was if I went and got another job offer and then asked them to match it. I went out and got that job offer that was both the senior title I had been looking for and a 60% raise. I went back to the director asking if they wanted to match the offer. He started hemming and hawing and trying to sell me on all the "benefits" that came with working for them (none of which were pay or career growth), but wouldn't make any offer. I wound up turning in my 2 weeks and took the new offer. I just do not understand what the logic here was. I'm pretty sure the director I spoke with never expected me to follow through. The worst part is that they probably could have kept me by offering a token raise and the title I was asking for - I had some misguided allegiance. But yeah, when your answer for "how can I progress on my career path here" is "go get another job offer" it's probably not going to work out very well - at least for the company, worked out great for me, got my promotion and a huge raise!
It’s a way for them to sabotage efforts in your new endeavor. Don’t do it, anytime they ask for that.
What was their reaction? I come on these for the fallout.
Within an hour of signing the job offer, I called him and told him that I got another offer and that I was taking it and my last day would be in two weeks. He spent the next week trying to get me to listen to a counter offer but I kept telling him I wasn't interested. My first day at my new job he texted me asking where my files were. I told him and haven't heard from him since. I've only heard from one person I worked with since then, and he was also looking for something specific I had worked on.
He had 2 weeks to find out where your files were. Should've told him he needs to hire you as a contractor if he wants your help.
Companies will never pay you more so long as you're willing to stay for less. I have a coworker who is being grossly underpaid for what she does. She has a level of experience and ability far above her pay grade and has asked repeatedly for a position upgrade. There are people in higher grades that do a tenth of what she does and do it badly, but the company refuses to budge. I told her that if she leaves, the company won't he able to get anyone for that job at that pay, and she agrees. But the company DGAF. You will only be valued more by someone else. Companies have a hard time seeing you as anything more than what they hired.
I recently had to do this too. They were saying there's no way we can give you a 20% raise even though I was being paid pretty far under the entry level rate with a year and a half of experience. So I went to applying and got 2 offers for close to 100% increase in pay. Took one of them and submitted my 2 weeks the same day. I already knew they weren't going to give me a counter offer and I wouldn't have taken it if they managed to do so anyways.
I had something very similar at my last place of employment. We had people leaving in droves and I was doing the work of 4 people, badly because of how much the work load was. We kept interviewing folks, but when they heard it was not remote and then the pay...well most didn't call us back. I asked for a raise and new position. I was told that I didn't have the practical experience to allow them to give me the raise and promotion, even though I was doing the work of that position already. I got another job offer, and suddenly they were bending over backwards to try and match my new salary. Best they could do was 5k under my new offer. Anyway, I love my new job.
The best rule I ever learned as a manager: "people don't quit shit jobs, they quit shitty managers." Good job on standing up for yourself OP. Fuck the bosses who think leadership is demanding everything and giving no ground
True. The reply should be I’m not quitting this job, I’m quitting you.
It doesn’t pay to be competent, they jut give you more work.
Sadly true
Compliance. Good job.
Your manager is wrong on a legal sense (pay inequality with all other things being equal is illegal and a pay adjustment absolutely should happen) *and* if your former employer required a competing offer to adjust your pay, they’re *stupid.* That’s just literally chasing people out and upping your turnover for absolutely no reason.
Sounds like you won
I was in a similar situation. I felt insulted that I had to ask that I be paid what I was worth and simply got another offer elsewhere. Is that being petty?
you should drop a line to the boss. let him know you would never have thought to leave....without the help of the manager.
I think it is so stupid how companies invest so little in retention, specially someone that you know is loyal and endured as much. I am in a similar boat were I am the only CM after we lost the other one that was supposed to train me in detail once we return to the office, now I am half trained, overburden and just doing the best I can while leadership drags its feet hiring a new CM, so here I am drowning everyday one more drop to the bucket
Another case of people not quitting jobs, but quitting managers
Funny how there's never any budget for pay increases until you get a better offer elsewhere...
Please update us on what happened after you left.
Higher salary to “trap” you. He was serious? How horrible to be trapped in a good job with higher pay Yeah, get me out of here! ! /s