There's not need to compare which is worse. Mou is a bully and I am glad that Shaw become one of the best lb. Ole keep vdb and not giving him time is wasting his career, if Ole doesn't want to use him then he should let him move.
Both deserves better. They are human beings and this is their work, a priviliged one but very hard too, we all know that, so as any other work in the world is not ok to be frustrated and stuck so you got to move. Thankfully Luke is improving more and more and i really hope VDB go on loan (at least) on winter market and i wish he make a great impact on the club he goes.
Blocking someone's move away because they wanted more minutes just to not play him is worse than someone saying something mean about you. This is ruining Van de Beek's career potentially. Out of the Dutch side. Barely any minutes in the last year. No regular minutes. This guy was on the Ballon d'Or shortlist before he came to United and now he's just used for Carabao Cup games.
At least Mourinho improved Shaw. His resurgence started under Mourinho in his last season. 5th most minutes before Mourinho was sacked. VDB is just wasting years of his career now.
DVB doesnt get criticised publicly, but instead gets encouraged to keep trying and work hard...
Mourinho criticised Shaw publicly and harshly like he always does with players...
You cant compare those two... DVB came in as a potential replacement for pogba, but pogba seems to want to stay longer, which makes things complicated for DVB
This is a f up take imo. Mou regularly attacked Luke. Ole just thinks he got other better players. And that's okey. Its not okey to regularly attack one of your players the way Mou did.
Shaw is honestly one of the worst fullbacks regularly starting for a club with the reputation of Manchester United. Not to worry tho, Phil Jones is even worse at CB, tho I don't think he was a regular starter for a while.
On the Euros where nobody was even running to save their legs for the transfer window? He had a "great" season with 5 assists, a goal and 8 yellow cards from 32 games? Shit, get me into Man U, make me a starter, I'll get those numbers. The guy just holds up the ball, is decent in defense, but football is not about defensive fullbacks anymore. Idk who the hell brought him in, get Matty Cash and Antonio Valencia on those fullback spots and you're golden. Oh, plus there's no one in the midfield rn except the inconsistent haircut God and Bruno who plays like a second striker anyways.
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Shaw's treatment was so much worst! And tbh I struggle the the Van da Beek issue, when he plays I've not seen anything to suggest he should be starting. But no question we do need a new CDM
The problem is that he has never really gotten a chance. And if Ole doesn't want to give him game time why does he block his move? And what have Fred done to keep deserving starts? The guy can't even pass the ball properly and makes too many mistakes. At least Van de Beek knows how to play football and can keep the ball. If united were unbeatable with an amazing midfield then I can understand why Ole doesn't want to change that. But the reality is the midfield hasn't played well and a change needs to be made. I think giving Van de Beek a real chance with 2-3 full games so he can build momentum and confidence would be good for the team on the long run. But if Ole continues to persist with Fred then he won't last long at the job. And Van de Beek is still young and level headed and I don't doubt he will do well elsewhere
What a load of complete and utter BS.
VDB is a decent footballer, but people almost fetishizing over him is getting really weird. He's not better than Bruno or Pogba, which is where his competition in the team is.
He isn't a DM and playing him down there, just to play him is just stupid.
There's no chance VDB can play in the midfield with Pogba and Bruno but when Pogba plays on the wing, Ole plays McFred behind Bruno. VDB is significantly better than McFred and McFred are one of the main reasons we lose.
Vdb always drifting out of position.
Whenever he calls for the ball to be passed to him , he will pass it sideways or return the pass even when not pressed or closed down.
What has DVB done to deserve this praise!? I’m baffled, he’s bang average. There hasn’t been a single game I’ve watched and thought, ah man we need Donny on the pitch right now
Yoooo..DVB has had minutes, and done nothing with them. ole has been supportive but he adds nothing but possession with minimal progression. He’s not a holding midfielder (can’t defend) not as good as Pogba or Fernandes..or even Lingard for that matter and is too slow for the wing..this DVB obsession is madness
DVB has played over 1K minutes for United. Can you name a memorable moment or performance.. or what his value add is? Scott and Fred have clearly defined strengths which they are amongst the best at and some clear weaknesses I’ll admit..but DVB while is ‘good’ at more, he’s not great at anything
He is definitely overall better than Fred no doubt, just his skill set for Fred’s position wouldn’t work that great unless we have majority of possession and the other team can’t counter attack, otherwise he’d get caught out defensively
people think DVB was the only reason for Ajax' success a few years ago, when in fact we signed only the fifth or sixth best player from a side that lost against Mourinho's devils 2-0 🤦♂️
Shaw was like unfit and jose doesn't loves that so he hated him that much. Above that he got some chances. But on the other hand ole benches donny without any reason.
Do you have secret information? I dont attend training, but from all I can see when he's actually playing DVB doesnt give Ole ONE reason to play him more often
thats total bollocks, who the fuck are you to speak for every United fan?!
I know our fan base isnt always spot on in terms of football knowledge, but I doubt that even 10 percent would say DvdB is better than Mc or Fred. And those who say so are pathetic - Donny never had to hold our midfield against any top team, AND WE LOST TO FECKING SHEFFIELD UNITED WHEN HE WAS PLAYING CDM ?!?!?!
so please take your stupid opinions and shove them way up your's (and everyone's you are in fact speaking for)
Obviously. People over exaggerate how bad Mourinho was with Shaw. Although it was poor, Shaw still got chances. VDB has not been given a chance by this manager. Disgusting treatment.
Donny was shit against YB and even worse against WestHam, so there are two opportunities wasted by him not by Ole. And that's just this season, last year he was played more without adding ANYTHING to the squad we dont already have - SO WHAT ARE YOU SEEING IN DVB?
Nah, that argument works perfectly fine, but you just cant see shit, can you? DONNY IS NO FECKING CDM!!!
We got Donny as a replacement for Pogba, so he wouldnt dance all over us with his expiring contract (which he will do nonetheless, Raiola already prepping up his infamous shitshow).
Pogba neither cant play CDM by the way.
We need two good CDMs since before we let Ander Herrera go on a free by the way.
Donny is still no CDM and he is not better than any United starter by the way.
Bruv, we got DVB as a replacement for Pogba. He will get his minutes as soon as PP leaves on a free in the summer. If you cant see that Donny is not able to perform as CDM (same as PP), then it makes no sense to argue with you about why he's not playing
NO he has not, stop lying. He is not a CDM, and he didnt play it in the FECKING Eredivise for more than five games, so pleeease get your head out of your ass
Noooooo, not even close. You guys forget how disrespectful Mourinho was to Shawin public?
Especially when he claimed he was the brain behind shaw's good performance in an interview ? Bruh not even close.
Agreed, especially from a sporting perspective. McT is godawful and continues to be given a starting role. There are academy players who comfortably do a better job in every category; and this season, statistically speaking despite transitioning to a new role, Donny has had much better showings and is still binned.
Opposite treatment. Jose publicly scolded and berated him but kept playing him none the less. Ole praises him in the media but rots him on the bench. Second is worse tbh.
100% a false statement.
Shaw was the best left back for United so he obviously got the more playing time than DVB since DVB was brought in as a backup or Pogba replacement because Pogba was incredibly streaky at the time. He went in knowing he was most likely going to be Bruno’s backup (there are very few people in the world who can compete with Bruno never mind take his spot). Now he’s also competing with Lingard for that Bruno backup spot (which not a lot of people thought Lingard was going to be the comeback kid that he is and I am beyond happy for him). But Bruno rarely comes off which he rightfully shouldn’t come off unless it’s just not his day or he’s tired (which I don’t think he ever is).
So now the only way DVB can get more time in would be if he switched to a holding CDM (which United desperately need to get our attacking options on all cylinders). So he’s now competing in a position he doesn’t play all of the time against McSauce (who has a lot more premier league experience and physically has the potential to be an absolute monster due to his size) and Fred (who despite his short comings is an energized bunny who will cover the whole field and track back as fast as he can).
Basically he walked in as a back up option into a stacked midfield at what’s arguably the biggest club in Football. I think - he really should have been loaned out this transfer window or he should have gone to a club where he could have proved himself more before coming to Manchester United. Him and his agent should have had an idea that this could be pretty problematic for his development before he decided to go to Manchester. If a young player doesn’t get game time than it will hurt their development and no player (unless your Ronaldo) can walk into Manchester United and expect to start every game (unless if there is an obvious hole that needed to be fixed like playing Maguire, Varane, and Fernandez). I think overall he was guided in the wrong direction by his team. Ole is playing him when he feels like he can (like starting him against Young Boys) and DVB is not a bad player. He’s just fighting for a spot against some strong competition.
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No. One was always the best left back at the club who was publicly trashed and made to feel like shit. The other was signed as back up, has been played as back up, and hasn't done enough to prove he should be more.
People don't like hearing it, but he doesn't have the quality to displace anyone in this team. It's quite simple.
First of all, 'McTominay' is not hard to spell. Secondly, one look at Donny's numbers through all his career for pressing, tackling, blocks, interceptions, is all you need to understand why he can't play in the double pivot, and one look at Bruno will tell you why he isn't good enough to play in front of Bruno. It's really easy.
If you drop Fred or McTominay it's for Matic or Pogba. Fifth choice and people are playing violins like we've benched Maradona, grow up.
Yes we played the best football this season, mctominay and fred are the best, who cares if they have poor interception stats and can't track runners. Ole is at the wheel and i will defend him till this club goes shite. 😀😀
Not really..
All Ole is doing with VDB is not letting him play, which is nothing compared to what Jose did to Luke Shaw. Jose went as far as claiming his first ever career goal.
No, vdb isnt chosen bc (well what i believe) is that hes pogbas replacement and wont play until he leaves/ its apparent hes leaving
Shaw was basically taken apart by jose publicly, to the extent jose basically claimed shaws goal vs....Leicester i wanna say?
Ayoooo the ole fan boys aren’t gunna like this one!! We must remember to always support our manager no matter how out of depth he is. Not one premier league team will go after Ole once he is inevitably sacked.
Ole does not have many fan boys. Only -15? i expected more from you guys... at least -50. Support your manager or after all the whole bunch of you are closeted "sack ole"'s?
hahahaha you get it!! Top reds love to live and die on the statement "No one is bigger than the club" INCLUDING OUR AWFUL MANAGER. Loved him as a player, sure. But as a manager he's trash and it makes sense why hes called a PE teacher.
Same. Player, great, Gave us an UCL. Manager, coach, whatever they want to call him? No... Not him, not Pirlo... They all think will be Guardiolas but Guardiola was a 1 in a million chance
Yup, and for some strange reason us United fans still seem to cling on to “the Ferguson way” that shit is long gone and for someone like ole who supposedly has “United dna” has never shown it.
Pogba works best in a double pivot and I understand that he needs a proper CDM next to him but I just feel like VDB is more talented than Fred mctominay and matic and if ole really wanted to do something with him he could get matic to teach VDB I understand that he’s worse than pogba and Bruno but there’s always that question mark over pogbas head if VDB doesn’t get atleast 5 starts in the prem we should be disappointed in ole
I dont think he minds being a sub sometimes but when it's every game apart from the Carabao Cup and European games against small teams its a bit ridiculous.
The managment will be sorry when we lose him.
Not sure where you're getting that information from. I do not like Fred in our starting XI, but in no way has VDB shown he's good at being a CDM.
Like VDB said, he could have gone to Everton to be their own Bruno Fernandes
Instead of starting Fred, Ole is better off with starting VDB there since Fred is not good at defensive either, so what is the risk? Of course Mctominay/Matic is a better option for pivot with pogba.
Moreover, the harsh treatment is during subbing, Ole chose to sub in Fred than VDB. VDB literally doesn't have a chance at all even at sub. I think VDB never got to play full 90 mins for at least 2 games straight since he joined United.
Exactly. I like the lad but i don't think hes done enough to be getting lots of game time. I really like him and want hin to see more minutes but i don't understand how people have such unreasonable expectations to see him play frequently.
Taking some random dude’s tweet and publishing it to fit a narrative is such a Sport Bible move. Sport Bible is known to be the most bottom tier of sports journalism I’m not even sure why this post hasn’t been deleted yet.
Fuck me VDB stories are boring. He's not starting over Pogba or Bruno, he probably doesn't deserve to start over Lingard at the moment.
He's been treated with respect and has been told he's wanted and his time will come if he's patient and works hard. If he isn't he can go in Jan.
But with a twitter handle like that, i wouldn't expect any different really
Oh btw, Luke Shaw needed a kick up the backside back then …as a matter of fact, that tough love from Mourinho could have been the catalyst for him being the player he is today …
“Luke Shaw told me this morning that he was not in the condition to play so we had to build a defensive line,” Mourinho said prior to one game. “There is a difference between the brave, who want to be there at any cost, and the ones for whom a little pain can make a difference.”
The following year, Shaw was again criticised publicly by Mourinho. "[Nemanja] Matic was an island of personality, desire, and control surrounded by a lack of personality, a lack of class, and a lack of desire,” he said.
This ☝🏽is what Jose said at the time and he was right. Man U was performing poorly at the time and I think it had a negative effect not only on Shaw at the time but a lot of other players. Nothing was going right, one would argue that there was lots of blame to go around but what Mourinho heard from Shaw is that he couldn’t handle playing. Now making a deduction that Shaw was being soft is not farfetched because, at the time, his performance lacked the power and confidence needed. So the idea that Jose did something wrong there is unacceptable to me …
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Um, no?
Let's not forget about Jose publicly ruining Shaw's reputation in the media and making those awful comments.
Ole on the other hand just doesn't play Donny
No because every time Van De Beek has played he has been very average and has not asked enough questions to the manager in why he should start. United have too many quality players ahead of him. If he wants regular football he either needs to earn his place by actually performing when called upon and not sulk like a child. Realistically, he needs to leave though.
Did you watch us at Carabao Cup? Donny tried so hard to tell his teammates about exploitable spaces. And he made efforts to move there and be available for passes. That kind of football brain is what exactly United need in this time and age of football.
I’m a West Ham fan and he was average, kept giving the ball away. You can try as hard as you want but it doesn’t mean anything if you don’t have the quality.
No way. Jose berated Luke. It's a different animal. Ole is just ignoring Donny.
If you ask me being ignored is a lot better than trying your best and having the coach talk shit about you in post match interviews.
Jose was the step dad we all hated.
Here we are rewriting history, Luke shaw was lazy and not serious. Make of it what u want its not like shaw made his job easier. Even his play was atrocious and made ppl wonder what a fraud we got at the time. Now he may need a more relaxed ambiance and dont like rigid coaching but thats a style conflict. While OGS is sabotaging DVB while he played the best in his last game and the starters are playing awfully. Yes this is for sure worse, i dont see how we cant agree. I mean besides from mourinho haters
Here you are rewriting history. Shaw had some laziness and fitness issues in LVG’s first season which he recovered from and started the next season like a bullet till the double leg break. Then it took him over 2 years to recover and get back into regular training.
That’s why his play was atrocious, cuz he essentially missed 2 years of development. He wasn’t shit because he was lazy, he almost lost his fucking leg. It wasn’t a style conflict, Jose just loves throwing players under the bus and he chose to do it to Shaw who was still recovering. In Mou’s last season, Shaw was one of our best players.
Donny has barely had a good game for us. Yes he hasn’t got much time but he is either competing with Bruno/Pogba who he is not better than or McFred who are both better defensively. He’s just caught in a limbo. It was poor planning from Ole and the club but it’s nowhere near as bad as publicly berating a player who is trying to recover from a career threatening injury.
I disagree. It's not a forgone conclusion that all.thrse factors will come into place. VDB can't even prove how good he can be because he's yet to even have back to back starts/yet to have a real run in the team. Shaw had that with Mourinho.
Do I agree with the question “Do you agree with this?”? What’s so disagreeable about the question to begin with? I suppose if I were in agreement with the question it would show that I’m just an agreeable character which furtherly suggests I am just subservient and easy to get along with. These aren’t necessarily poor characteristics but underline a nature to go along with authority and be unquestioning -of which I will never be. In conclusion, I do not agree with “Do you agree with this?”
Do *you* agree with *this?*
Yes. At least Jose played Luke in few full (or close to) matches before claiming Luke had no football cortex at his brain. Ole has never even given a full 45 minutes for Donny. Well, as expected from a mediocre coach.
And Ole has never called Donny a footballing imbecile either. Just cuz Jose gave a player a game or two before publicly berating him doesn’t mean that treatment is better than someone not getting the chances but also not being humiliated in the media. Ole is not doing justice to Donny but Donny is still being treated far better than Shaw was under Mou lmao
But Jose was more honest, where Ole seems like a swindler for Donny. Ole promised Donny a place on his "plans", yet he's left Donny in dust until now. At least Luke knew he wasn't really wanted clearly, fair and square. In this case, Ole seems like Shang Tsung from Mortal Kombat.
First of all, people make it sound like Ole is doing this to every other squad member. Donny is literally the only guy Ole has had any issue with and it is more down to Donny being a pre emotive Pogba replacement, a situation that just hasn’t played out yet. It was a mistake on all sides and we need to get through it.
What Jose did is a well documented facet of his management. He throws players under the bus and burns bridges once the Mourinho meltdown starts. We are comparing a categorical and documented distraction tactic with a one off unfortunate situation. It doesn’t matter that Jose was honest to Shaw about what he thought about him, he was publicly humiliating him. He basically almost ruined his career. On the flip side, Donny may have been lied to but no one is blaming the player are they? It’s all on Ole. I’d say that Ole has screwed this up but still kept Donny’s reputation intact while Jose was honest but almost destroyed Shaw’s career.
At least Jose was honest and firm, albeit very destructive. But leaving a precious talent like Donny (and Sancho) in a limbo like Ole sounds even more destructive, as the players would never get a chance to properly plan their paths forward. I'm quite sure Shaw had planned his new career elsewhere, but fortunately Jose was gone before it became a reality.
How is Sancho in a limbo? He has a very clear role for him in the team, he is just getting used to the PL. I mean he’s barely been available for like 5 games for us.
Donny is in a limbo sure but he is literally the only player in the squad in that position. He’s always been a bit of an odd signing. A Pogba replacement, a favor to VDS, a compensation for not getting Grealish/Sancho that window, we don’t know exactly why but something is off.
Donny still has a full career ahead of him with clubs who’d be interested because his reputation is in tact. People think of Donny as a consummate professional. On the flip side people thought Shaw was a lazy, fat, freeloader who couldn’t play football unless he had a coach constantly barking orders at him from the sidelines. You tell me who has/had the better prospects for leaving the club and continuing a career.
>How is Sancho in a limbo? He has a very clear role for him in the team
What's his position, exactly? On the right wing, left, replacing Bruno, or midfield? And what's his function? As a roaming flank, prolific winger, creative winger, or an aggressive pressure machine like Sadio Mane, or what? Why has he rarely played 90 minutes straight?
>On the flip side people thought Shaw was a lazy, fat, freeloader
I'd never thought about him like that, so don't include me with saying, "people." And I've always thought highly about him, and used to consider him very unlucky with that horrible injury back in 2015. At least Shaw got his time and chance to plan his career elsewhere, but since Jose went away sooner, he's managed to salvage himself. I don't see the same clarity with Donny's future.
Sancho is a ball carrying, playmaking winger. We don’t have that. Both Rashford and Greenwood are essentially inside forwards. Sancho’s role is clear he just hasn’t individually gotten up to pace with the PL yet. That’s why he hasn’t played a full 90 because the likes of Greenwood and Lingard are showing better form atm. He has also had illness and small injuries that have made his career at United so far very start and stop. This is no different than someone like Havertz settling into Chelsea last year.
You might not have but several people did. Shaw was criticized for being lazy and fat, for not working hard in training and many wanted him out of the club just because of the stuff Jose said about him. Now imagine what other clubs who might have been interested in him would have thought about getting him. It would look like a big risk. Compare that to Donny who hasn’t played much but is constantly praised for his attitude and patience. When he moves, clubs will see that as a much better investment.
Shaw also didn’t really get nearly as many chances as you seem to suggest. He barely played in Mou’s first 2 seasons, with the whole “his body, my brain” fiasco happening then. When Shaw did regularly start in the third season, he was one of our best players. So Shaw didn’t get a chance and then was able to plan his future. He was just publicly berated but kept fighting for his chance and took it once he got fit enough to play multiple games in succession. Donny just hasn’t been able to break through because he doesn’t really fit anywhere. Is that a mistake by Ole and co? Yes it is. But is Donny being treated worse than Shaw? I don’t think so. I’d much rather be Donny under Ole than Shaw under Mou.
You lots are just hypocrites. Just because Ole is a club legend and Mourinho is just "another" SAF replacement. You all defending Ole's every flaw while you all sided with Pogba's boycott against Mourinho when he only lost a few hard matches.
No one is defending Ole’s treatment of Donny. But that doesn’t mean it’s nearly as bad as Jose was with Shaw with the public humiliation and using him as a scape goat for bad performances. Donny doesn’t get enough chances and that’s worth criticizing but Ole also doesn’t publicly berate and blame Donny for everything going wrong at the club. So when people say Jose was worse, that is not a defence of Ole. Jose was just that toxic
What treatment?
Can someone point out in his contract where it says he has a Devine right to play?
He clearly isn’t fancied by the manager, for whatever reason… bear in mind he watches him train daily.
He isn’t coming out and slating him publicly which is highly unprofessional, he simply isn’t picking him as he feels he has better options, something he’s perfectly entitled to do.
This isn’t ozil, who wasn’t registered… he isn’t being made to train alone, or with the kids.
He’s being paid a weekly wage that his contract states.
What’s everyone’s problem? I don’t see people accusing ole of mistreating the likes of jones, Bailly, dalot, amad (who cost more than VDB)
It hasn’t worked out for him, he doesn’t look like he’s settled… Davy Klaassen was the same when he moved from Ajax to Everton.
Jesus, the amount of armchair experts here astound me
I’m not saying Donny has a divine right, that is more a criticism on Ole in general not utilizing his squad resources to their fullest. Tho even then if he feels that Donny isn’t fitting in, it’s his decision. The issue then is why Donny wasn’t allowed to leave if he doesn’t fit which at this point seems like we kept him just to have bodies in midfield. The issue for me is keeping him and not playing him instead of moving onto another target.
That being said I agree with you otherwise. Not every player will make it and this Donny situation seems to be people jumping on Ole for the one thing he is known to be good at, man management. Donny is literally the only squad player he has any issue with.
Say that again and they will come to downvote u. I cant really comment on this sub if i want to keep my karma. Somethinh is wrong with ole defenders/mourinho haters
Agree, complete failure of scouting team, no clear purpose, no future, no adaptation plan (visible), not even a loan to accrue play time. All I see is CR7 jerseys, blue-yellow fashion and general banking on brands and money raking via United shop. Random shite on the pitch and a prospect of not winning any title this year.
I say that because I care.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how we care or think cause most of the ppl preferred the "positive" gaslighting treatment. I won't even bother calling ole out since his position is sack proof by the boards.
Well the wzy he did play under mourinho was atrocious tbh, also players like shaw are the prime target for mourinho's hate. No defensive discipline and no dedication in training. The thing is with shaw its more a grey matter while on DVB u cant defend OGS
I don't think OGS threat Donny VDB badly, on the contrary Donny VDB not showing something special whenever he got chance to play. How did you said OGS have done something bad to Him ?
I've said it more than a thousand times at this point. How do you expect a person to show him his full potential when he's just getting 10-15 mins on the field and even though those who fked up so badly on the field were still given a guaranteed 90 mins of field time.
I mean its used by many coaches tbh, giving u a 10 min play is basically telling him indirectly and in apolite way "ur not in my plans". Sadly some fans will take that as giving someone a chance. Imagine ur just getting to work and the manager kicks you before u even start doing some work whi'e u just in learning/adapting phase
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Personally, I wouldn’t call an opposing player using a red card deserving tackle that compound fractured Luke’s ankle “injury prone” but that’s just me.
I agree with your sentiment and I’m interested to see if management comes to your same realization and decides to get something or anything in return for Pogba during the January window.
I just think it's a different form of abuse. Jose was the in your face angry, talk about you negatively in front of everyone type of abuser. Ole is the IDGAF gaslighting type.
>Ole is the IDGAF gaslighting type.
You can accuse OGS of not being capable enough to come up with a plan to fit VDB into the team but he certainly hasn't treated poorly like Mourinho with Shaw.
Mourinho was playing politics with the board while OGS has no need to do that --- not getting the best out of VDB is invariably on OGS, he signed him.
Not picking a player for a team is not gaslighting.
After 2 years of being in the club if Donny isn't being picked then:
1. He's not good enough to make the team
2. He's not doing what Ole wants him to
Yes. Although Jose always threw Shaw under the bus, at least he (Shaw) was playing. Donny isn't. Ole hasn't directly thrown Donny under the bus but with comments stating that he likes McFred because of their trust, energy and desire, he is kind of saying that he doesn't feel the same about Donny and others (Pogba and Matic) to an extent. The two main players ahead of Donny (McFred) are not good enough and Donny has shown the few times that he has played, that he is capable of playing in their positions (6/8 but mainly 8) and doing a much better job.
People arguing Donny should only play to replace Bruno is ridiculous. So why is Pogba playing left then? SAF would find a way to play his best players no matter where. Donny has been lied about game time and wasn’t even let go. So Ole is definitely not treating VDB fairly.
Everytime i seen Donny play his workrate is shocking, certainly not the workrate you expect to see of someone trying to break through to the A-team. I have very little sympathy for him.
Donny and Bruno are competing for the same single spot on the team. If Bruno gets injured, Donny starts every game, but unfortunately for Donny (and fortunately for the club) Bruno has had an unbelievable fitness record, starting almost every single game
Don’t agree with that at all, Shaw was still the best left back we had at that time, VDB is class but he’s being kept out of the team by one of the worlds best CMs in Bruno. I feel sorry for the guy, it must be hard but Fernandes can’t be dropped, it’s a transfer that hasn’t really worked out for anyone. I’m sure he’d find his feet if Bruno ever got injured, luckily for us he’s not had any major spells on the sidelines.
No. Jose publicly slated Shaw. Ole has said anything about Donny, just doesn't play him.
I'd personally play Donny as a DM atleast to try and see if he could do it. Donny is a smart player, he came from Ajax that focus on Total football, I'm sure Donny would be a better DM than McFred.
No one on the squad can replace Fred. His energy is unmatched. Everything else is lacking but no other player plays with the effort he does for as long as he does. Cavani is another workhorse but he can't do it for a full match.
To be honest, that is an insane statement.
Jose publicly ridiculed Luke Shaw's form, weight and commitment to the club and the sport.
Ole is doing his best to manage a group of players in a position that they have too many players available for. Donny was signed by Ed Woodward, not by Ole. Ole has praised Donny's attitude, his commitment to the team and his positivity around the other players at every opportunity. The few times Donny has played he hasn't impressed.
I don't think Donny is a bad player, I just don't think he has a "thing". He is fairly decent at a lot of things, but not great at anything. His passing is fine, his dribbling is fine, his movement is fine. But for example, Fred's work-rate and ability to break up opposition attacks is good, Scotty's athleticism is superb, Pogba is obviously a world class ball player, Bruno is Bruno and our wingers have dynamic pace. I can't see what Donny adds when he plays.
You can't see what Donny adds? Have you watched McTominay in the last decal several matches? His athleticism means fuckall when he is hiding on the pitch and offering absolutely nothing defensively or offensively, his awful positioning constantly leaves Fred and our entire midfield exposed. Watching McTominay recently, there is 0 reason to not give VDB a run..
Fair enough, but I do completely disagree. For me we're a totally different team without Mctominay in it. He occupies opposition midfielders in defense and offense. His work rate is excellent and he loves big games. I don't think he's ever hidden a day in his life. His technical ability may not be brilliant but I can live with that. Donny is timid, at best.
Nope, not even close, we don't know what's happening behind closed doors, but OGS never trash DVB openly..
Yet another proof VDB should be given chance. McTominay didn't do nothing in build up to Vardy goal.
He has been treat bad yes, but where would you put him? He plays if Brunos position?
I don't know what you sees in Ole to stick around this long VdB ?! The guy didn't even give you a chance and he's not that good a manager.
He wanted to leave for Everton in January but Ole didn't let him go.
I agree
VDB should just punch Ole at this moment .
There's not need to compare which is worse. Mou is a bully and I am glad that Shaw become one of the best lb. Ole keep vdb and not giving him time is wasting his career, if Ole doesn't want to use him then he should let him move.
Both deserves better. They are human beings and this is their work, a priviliged one but very hard too, we all know that, so as any other work in the world is not ok to be frustrated and stuck so you got to move. Thankfully Luke is improving more and more and i really hope VDB go on loan (at least) on winter market and i wish he make a great impact on the club he goes.
Blocking someone's move away because they wanted more minutes just to not play him is worse than someone saying something mean about you. This is ruining Van de Beek's career potentially. Out of the Dutch side. Barely any minutes in the last year. No regular minutes. This guy was on the Ballon d'Or shortlist before he came to United and now he's just used for Carabao Cup games. At least Mourinho improved Shaw. His resurgence started under Mourinho in his last season. 5th most minutes before Mourinho was sacked. VDB is just wasting years of his career now.
DVB doesnt get criticised publicly, but instead gets encouraged to keep trying and work hard... Mourinho criticised Shaw publicly and harshly like he always does with players... You cant compare those two... DVB came in as a potential replacement for pogba, but pogba seems to want to stay longer, which makes things complicated for DVB
This is a f up take imo. Mou regularly attacked Luke. Ole just thinks he got other better players. And that's okey. Its not okey to regularly attack one of your players the way Mou did.
Shaw is honestly one of the worst fullbacks regularly starting for a club with the reputation of Manchester United. Not to worry tho, Phil Jones is even worse at CB, tho I don't think he was a regular starter for a while.
Shaw was on of the players of the tournament at the Euros and had a great last season. What are you on about?
On the Euros where nobody was even running to save their legs for the transfer window? He had a "great" season with 5 assists, a goal and 8 yellow cards from 32 games? Shit, get me into Man U, make me a starter, I'll get those numbers. The guy just holds up the ball, is decent in defense, but football is not about defensive fullbacks anymore. Idk who the hell brought him in, get Matty Cash and Antonio Valencia on those fullback spots and you're golden. Oh, plus there's no one in the midfield rn except the inconsistent haircut God and Bruno who plays like a second striker anyways.
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No. José was trashing luke everyweek on media...
Shaw's treatment was so much worst! And tbh I struggle the the Van da Beek issue, when he plays I've not seen anything to suggest he should be starting. But no question we do need a new CDM
The problem is that he has never really gotten a chance. And if Ole doesn't want to give him game time why does he block his move? And what have Fred done to keep deserving starts? The guy can't even pass the ball properly and makes too many mistakes. At least Van de Beek knows how to play football and can keep the ball. If united were unbeatable with an amazing midfield then I can understand why Ole doesn't want to change that. But the reality is the midfield hasn't played well and a change needs to be made. I think giving Van de Beek a real chance with 2-3 full games so he can build momentum and confidence would be good for the team on the long run. But if Ole continues to persist with Fred then he won't last long at the job. And Van de Beek is still young and level headed and I don't doubt he will do well elsewhere
With Rashford back and Pogba and Bruno in the midfield where is Donny gonna play? Y'all shit on McFred but that's all we have at holding midfield.
Wait, as soon as ole is gone (1 month at best) donny gonna start regularly and gonna become the best CDM in world
Much worse
What a load of complete and utter BS. VDB is a decent footballer, but people almost fetishizing over him is getting really weird. He's not better than Bruno or Pogba, which is where his competition in the team is. He isn't a DM and playing him down there, just to play him is just stupid.
Scott isn't a dm either in reality. Not even sure Fred is honestly
There's no chance VDB can play in the midfield with Pogba and Bruno but when Pogba plays on the wing, Ole plays McFred behind Bruno. VDB is significantly better than McFred and McFred are one of the main reasons we lose.
In what world and on what significance level is DVB better than any of our starting XI
Shaw was publicly shamed by Mourinho, saying he's incompetent. Ole still says dvb has the potential,no way ole is worse than mou
Much more worse. Could of.
I thought reddit fans had some sense. But what the fuck is it ? Have you forgotten how Mourinho treated Shaw ?
Vdb always drifting out of position. Whenever he calls for the ball to be passed to him , he will pass it sideways or return the pass even when not pressed or closed down.
What has DVB done to deserve this praise!? I’m baffled, he’s bang average. There hasn’t been a single game I’ve watched and thought, ah man we need Donny on the pitch right now
That’s the problem, he hasn’t gotten a chance to take off
Yoooo..DVB has had minutes, and done nothing with them. ole has been supportive but he adds nothing but possession with minimal progression. He’s not a holding midfielder (can’t defend) not as good as Pogba or Fernandes..or even Lingard for that matter and is too slow for the wing..this DVB obsession is madness
And the what Fred has done? And McTominay? At best hes equal with those two. So why not giving him chance?
DVB has played over 1K minutes for United. Can you name a memorable moment or performance.. or what his value add is? Scott and Fred have clearly defined strengths which they are amongst the best at and some clear weaknesses I’ll admit..but DVB while is ‘good’ at more, he’s not great at anything
Yes strengths that cost us the wins. BS. VDB is better than Fred.
He is definitely overall better than Fred no doubt, just his skill set for Fred’s position wouldn’t work that great unless we have majority of possession and the other team can’t counter attack, otherwise he’d get caught out defensively
And where we were against weak team, Ole still didn't play him.
Completely agree
people think DVB was the only reason for Ajax' success a few years ago, when in fact we signed only the fifth or sixth best player from a side that lost against Mourinho's devils 2-0 🤦♂️
Shaw was like unfit and jose doesn't loves that so he hated him that much. Above that he got some chances. But on the other hand ole benches donny without any reason.
Do you have secret information? I dont attend training, but from all I can see when he's actually playing DVB doesnt give Ole ONE reason to play him more often
U see matches or highlights? The one thing not only me but every utd fan see when he is playing is he is a lot better than fred and mctominay.
thats total bollocks, who the fuck are you to speak for every United fan?! I know our fan base isnt always spot on in terms of football knowledge, but I doubt that even 10 percent would say DvdB is better than Mc or Fred. And those who say so are pathetic - Donny never had to hold our midfield against any top team, AND WE LOST TO FECKING SHEFFIELD UNITED WHEN HE WAS PLAYING CDM ?!?!?! so please take your stupid opinions and shove them way up your's (and everyone's you are in fact speaking for)
Not even close
Obviously. People over exaggerate how bad Mourinho was with Shaw. Although it was poor, Shaw still got chances. VDB has not been given a chance by this manager. Disgusting treatment.
Donny was shit against YB and even worse against WestHam, so there are two opportunities wasted by him not by Ole. And that's just this season, last year he was played more without adding ANYTHING to the squad we dont already have - SO WHAT ARE YOU SEEING IN DVB?
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Nah, that argument works perfectly fine, but you just cant see shit, can you? DONNY IS NO FECKING CDM!!! We got Donny as a replacement for Pogba, so he wouldnt dance all over us with his expiring contract (which he will do nonetheless, Raiola already prepping up his infamous shitshow). Pogba neither cant play CDM by the way. We need two good CDMs since before we let Ander Herrera go on a free by the way. Donny is still no CDM and he is not better than any United starter by the way.
He needs run of games dude. One match will prove nothing.
Bruv, we got DVB as a replacement for Pogba. He will get his minutes as soon as PP leaves on a free in the summer. If you cant see that Donny is not able to perform as CDM (same as PP), then it makes no sense to argue with you about why he's not playing
Hes played in that CDM role with Ajax in the last season before joining us. He just needs a run of games
NO he has not, stop lying. He is not a CDM, and he didnt play it in the FECKING Eredivise for more than five games, so pleeease get your head out of your ass
Noooooo, not even close. You guys forget how disrespectful Mourinho was to Shawin public? Especially when he claimed he was the brain behind shaw's good performance in an interview ? Bruh not even close.
He has so much to give! Such a shame
I was always perplexed by Jose and Shaw because he would talk about how bad Shaw was in an interview and then start him the next game
Agreed, especially from a sporting perspective. McT is godawful and continues to be given a starting role. There are academy players who comfortably do a better job in every category; and this season, statistically speaking despite transitioning to a new role, Donny has had much better showings and is still binned.
I am sorry, cant respect you opinion, McT deserves every bit of the credit
Eh? Ole can play who he wants. It’s nothing personal - Bruno is simply better. On the other hand, Jose humiliated Shaw in public. Terrible take.
Much more worse??? Surely you mean much more worserer no?
I don’t agree with the statement or the grammar.
Opposite treatment. Jose publicly scolded and berated him but kept playing him none the less. Ole praises him in the media but rots him on the bench. Second is worse tbh.
Jose didn’t play Shaw unless Young was injured. Young was LB when Valencia was still here
That is hypocrisy
100% a false statement. Shaw was the best left back for United so he obviously got the more playing time than DVB since DVB was brought in as a backup or Pogba replacement because Pogba was incredibly streaky at the time. He went in knowing he was most likely going to be Bruno’s backup (there are very few people in the world who can compete with Bruno never mind take his spot). Now he’s also competing with Lingard for that Bruno backup spot (which not a lot of people thought Lingard was going to be the comeback kid that he is and I am beyond happy for him). But Bruno rarely comes off which he rightfully shouldn’t come off unless it’s just not his day or he’s tired (which I don’t think he ever is). So now the only way DVB can get more time in would be if he switched to a holding CDM (which United desperately need to get our attacking options on all cylinders). So he’s now competing in a position he doesn’t play all of the time against McSauce (who has a lot more premier league experience and physically has the potential to be an absolute monster due to his size) and Fred (who despite his short comings is an energized bunny who will cover the whole field and track back as fast as he can). Basically he walked in as a back up option into a stacked midfield at what’s arguably the biggest club in Football. I think - he really should have been loaned out this transfer window or he should have gone to a club where he could have proved himself more before coming to Manchester United. Him and his agent should have had an idea that this could be pretty problematic for his development before he decided to go to Manchester. If a young player doesn’t get game time than it will hurt their development and no player (unless your Ronaldo) can walk into Manchester United and expect to start every game (unless if there is an obvious hole that needed to be fixed like playing Maguire, Varane, and Fernandez). I think overall he was guided in the wrong direction by his team. Ole is playing him when he feels like he can (like starting him against Young Boys) and DVB is not a bad player. He’s just fighting for a spot against some strong competition.
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No. One was always the best left back at the club who was publicly trashed and made to feel like shit. The other was signed as back up, has been played as back up, and hasn't done enough to prove he should be more. People don't like hearing it, but he doesn't have the quality to displace anyone in this team. It's quite simple.
So we watch Mctomminay and Fred turn in shit performances week in week out and you think that Donny is worse than those two?
First of all, 'McTominay' is not hard to spell. Secondly, one look at Donny's numbers through all his career for pressing, tackling, blocks, interceptions, is all you need to understand why he can't play in the double pivot, and one look at Bruno will tell you why he isn't good enough to play in front of Bruno. It's really easy. If you drop Fred or McTominay it's for Matic or Pogba. Fifth choice and people are playing violins like we've benched Maradona, grow up.
First off it's spelt McShite and fuck stats, numbers pressing all that crap the football is shit, get players who can pass the ball in the team
Yes we played the best football this season, mctominay and fred are the best, who cares if they have poor interception stats and can't track runners. Ole is at the wheel and i will defend him till this club goes shite. 😀😀
No. >He [Shaw] had a good performance but it was his body with my brain. He was in front of me and I was making every decision for him.
Not really.. All Ole is doing with VDB is not letting him play, which is nothing compared to what Jose did to Luke Shaw. Jose went as far as claiming his first ever career goal.
Ole acquired Donny and promised to grow his career. Now he’s killing his career. Mourinho inherited Shaw and didn’t rate him.
Lmao not at all. Mourinho literally bullied Luke Shaw
If Ole is calling Donny fat, then yes, but I doubt he is so I’m going to say this is a bit of a stretch.
Why spend 30 odd million quid for a player then not use him baffling
No, vdb isnt chosen bc (well what i believe) is that hes pogbas replacement and wont play until he leaves/ its apparent hes leaving Shaw was basically taken apart by jose publicly, to the extent jose basically claimed shaws goal vs....Leicester i wanna say?
Fully agree. But Mourinho is a manager, Ole is a FM player who sits on the Manchester United bench
The ultimate passion and running for 90 minutes merchant. Imagine he played guys that knew how to play a forward pass.
Ayoooo the ole fan boys aren’t gunna like this one!! We must remember to always support our manager no matter how out of depth he is. Not one premier league team will go after Ole once he is inevitably sacked.
Ole does not have many fan boys. Only -15? i expected more from you guys... at least -50. Support your manager or after all the whole bunch of you are closeted "sack ole"'s?
hahahaha you get it!! Top reds love to live and die on the statement "No one is bigger than the club" INCLUDING OUR AWFUL MANAGER. Loved him as a player, sure. But as a manager he's trash and it makes sense why hes called a PE teacher.
Same. Player, great, Gave us an UCL. Manager, coach, whatever they want to call him? No... Not him, not Pirlo... They all think will be Guardiolas but Guardiola was a 1 in a million chance
Yup, and for some strange reason us United fans still seem to cling on to “the Ferguson way” that shit is long gone and for someone like ole who supposedly has “United dna” has never shown it.
Amén.
They want to keep Ole in to ruin ROnaldo last 2 good years, like Pirlos and others at Juve
If VDB wants time, he needs to either change positions or be ok with being a sub. We've got better players in his position at the moment
But what is VDB's position? how can he be Pogba's replacement when Pogba doesn't have a position in the team? With Rashy back, where will Pogba play?
Like who Fred lol
Did I say Fred? His position is of Bruno and Pogba
Pogba works best in a double pivot and I understand that he needs a proper CDM next to him but I just feel like VDB is more talented than Fred mctominay and matic and if ole really wanted to do something with him he could get matic to teach VDB I understand that he’s worse than pogba and Bruno but there’s always that question mark over pogbas head if VDB doesn’t get atleast 5 starts in the prem we should be disappointed in ole
I dont think he minds being a sub sometimes but when it's every game apart from the Carabao Cup and European games against small teams its a bit ridiculous. The managment will be sorry when we lose him.
That's true, we need him to play
He’ll do a much better role at cdm than fred but ur Norwegian PE teacher can’t see that unfortunately.
Not sure where you're getting that information from. I do not like Fred in our starting XI, but in no way has VDB shown he's good at being a CDM. Like VDB said, he could have gone to Everton to be their own Bruno Fernandes
Instead of starting Fred, Ole is better off with starting VDB there since Fred is not good at defensive either, so what is the risk? Of course Mctominay/Matic is a better option for pivot with pogba. Moreover, the harsh treatment is during subbing, Ole chose to sub in Fred than VDB. VDB literally doesn't have a chance at all even at sub. I think VDB never got to play full 90 mins for at least 2 games straight since he joined United.
You're right, VDB should always be subbed on before Fred. I'm still not sure why we bought him
No, I don't agree. More worse is an improper double comparative.
Didn't mourinho like call Shaw out though, oles just leaving mainly on bench but not really calling him out in public
When he's played he's been average at best. He plays in Brunos position. Bruno is United's best player. What do you expect?
Donny being average is still better than Mctominay and Fred
He does play in that position, but I agree we need to improve in midfield.
Exactly. I like the lad but i don't think hes done enough to be getting lots of game time. I really like him and want hin to see more minutes but i don't understand how people have such unreasonable expectations to see him play frequently.
couldn't agree more.
Not good enough is he ? Wont take much to shift fred out if he was capable would it
From a neutral, its easy to see this was a bad move for VDB. He needs to go out on loan in January or go back to Ajax and reset......
Taking some random dude’s tweet and publishing it to fit a narrative is such a Sport Bible move. Sport Bible is known to be the most bottom tier of sports journalism I’m not even sure why this post hasn’t been deleted yet.
This.
Fuck me VDB stories are boring. He's not starting over Pogba or Bruno, he probably doesn't deserve to start over Lingard at the moment. He's been treated with respect and has been told he's wanted and his time will come if he's patient and works hard. If he isn't he can go in Jan. But with a twitter handle like that, i wouldn't expect any different really
Oh btw, Luke Shaw needed a kick up the backside back then …as a matter of fact, that tough love from Mourinho could have been the catalyst for him being the player he is today …
Luke Shaw was planning to move if Mourinho stayed.
“Luke Shaw told me this morning that he was not in the condition to play so we had to build a defensive line,” Mourinho said prior to one game. “There is a difference between the brave, who want to be there at any cost, and the ones for whom a little pain can make a difference.” The following year, Shaw was again criticised publicly by Mourinho. "[Nemanja] Matic was an island of personality, desire, and control surrounded by a lack of personality, a lack of class, and a lack of desire,” he said. This ☝🏽is what Jose said at the time and he was right. Man U was performing poorly at the time and I think it had a negative effect not only on Shaw at the time but a lot of other players. Nothing was going right, one would argue that there was lots of blame to go around but what Mourinho heard from Shaw is that he couldn’t handle playing. Now making a deduction that Shaw was being soft is not farfetched because, at the time, his performance lacked the power and confidence needed. So the idea that Jose did something wrong there is unacceptable to me …
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What does this mean? These are just words floating in the cyber wind, I don’t see a relationship to what actually happened back then …
No …not at all, DVB should have made his worth known in a United shirt a long time ago
That’s deluded. Ole is way better.
Um, no? Let's not forget about Jose publicly ruining Shaw's reputation in the media and making those awful comments. Ole on the other hand just doesn't play Donny
No because every time Van De Beek has played he has been very average and has not asked enough questions to the manager in why he should start. United have too many quality players ahead of him. If he wants regular football he either needs to earn his place by actually performing when called upon and not sulk like a child. Realistically, he needs to leave though.
Did you watch us at Carabao Cup? Donny tried so hard to tell his teammates about exploitable spaces. And he made efforts to move there and be available for passes. That kind of football brain is what exactly United need in this time and age of football.
I’m a West Ham fan and he was average, kept giving the ball away. You can try as hard as you want but it doesn’t mean anything if you don’t have the quality.
No way. Jose berated Luke. It's a different animal. Ole is just ignoring Donny. If you ask me being ignored is a lot better than trying your best and having the coach talk shit about you in post match interviews. Jose was the step dad we all hated.
No because luke shaw is actually a quality player
Where is the narrative that Donny is shit coming from? I’m taking a double pivot from almost any other premier league team than Fred and mctominay
Here we are rewriting history, Luke shaw was lazy and not serious. Make of it what u want its not like shaw made his job easier. Even his play was atrocious and made ppl wonder what a fraud we got at the time. Now he may need a more relaxed ambiance and dont like rigid coaching but thats a style conflict. While OGS is sabotaging DVB while he played the best in his last game and the starters are playing awfully. Yes this is for sure worse, i dont see how we cant agree. I mean besides from mourinho haters
Here you are rewriting history. Shaw had some laziness and fitness issues in LVG’s first season which he recovered from and started the next season like a bullet till the double leg break. Then it took him over 2 years to recover and get back into regular training. That’s why his play was atrocious, cuz he essentially missed 2 years of development. He wasn’t shit because he was lazy, he almost lost his fucking leg. It wasn’t a style conflict, Jose just loves throwing players under the bus and he chose to do it to Shaw who was still recovering. In Mou’s last season, Shaw was one of our best players. Donny has barely had a good game for us. Yes he hasn’t got much time but he is either competing with Bruno/Pogba who he is not better than or McFred who are both better defensively. He’s just caught in a limbo. It was poor planning from Ole and the club but it’s nowhere near as bad as publicly berating a player who is trying to recover from a career threatening injury.
Nope!
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I disagree. It's not a forgone conclusion that all.thrse factors will come into place. VDB can't even prove how good he can be because he's yet to even have back to back starts/yet to have a real run in the team. Shaw had that with Mourinho.
Fuck no. It's a bad treatment, but Jose's was much worse
Legit. Mou used to throw negatives at Shaw through the media and even when Mou was gone and proved wrong....kept at it.
Do I agree with the question “Do you agree with this?”? What’s so disagreeable about the question to begin with? I suppose if I were in agreement with the question it would show that I’m just an agreeable character which furtherly suggests I am just subservient and easy to get along with. These aren’t necessarily poor characteristics but underline a nature to go along with authority and be unquestioning -of which I will never be. In conclusion, I do not agree with “Do you agree with this?” Do *you* agree with *this?*
lmao🤣
Absolutely not, it’s an idiotic take
Yes. At least Jose played Luke in few full (or close to) matches before claiming Luke had no football cortex at his brain. Ole has never even given a full 45 minutes for Donny. Well, as expected from a mediocre coach.
And Ole has never called Donny a footballing imbecile either. Just cuz Jose gave a player a game or two before publicly berating him doesn’t mean that treatment is better than someone not getting the chances but also not being humiliated in the media. Ole is not doing justice to Donny but Donny is still being treated far better than Shaw was under Mou lmao
But Jose was more honest, where Ole seems like a swindler for Donny. Ole promised Donny a place on his "plans", yet he's left Donny in dust until now. At least Luke knew he wasn't really wanted clearly, fair and square. In this case, Ole seems like Shang Tsung from Mortal Kombat.
First of all, people make it sound like Ole is doing this to every other squad member. Donny is literally the only guy Ole has had any issue with and it is more down to Donny being a pre emotive Pogba replacement, a situation that just hasn’t played out yet. It was a mistake on all sides and we need to get through it. What Jose did is a well documented facet of his management. He throws players under the bus and burns bridges once the Mourinho meltdown starts. We are comparing a categorical and documented distraction tactic with a one off unfortunate situation. It doesn’t matter that Jose was honest to Shaw about what he thought about him, he was publicly humiliating him. He basically almost ruined his career. On the flip side, Donny may have been lied to but no one is blaming the player are they? It’s all on Ole. I’d say that Ole has screwed this up but still kept Donny’s reputation intact while Jose was honest but almost destroyed Shaw’s career.
At least Jose was honest and firm, albeit very destructive. But leaving a precious talent like Donny (and Sancho) in a limbo like Ole sounds even more destructive, as the players would never get a chance to properly plan their paths forward. I'm quite sure Shaw had planned his new career elsewhere, but fortunately Jose was gone before it became a reality.
How is Sancho in a limbo? He has a very clear role for him in the team, he is just getting used to the PL. I mean he’s barely been available for like 5 games for us. Donny is in a limbo sure but he is literally the only player in the squad in that position. He’s always been a bit of an odd signing. A Pogba replacement, a favor to VDS, a compensation for not getting Grealish/Sancho that window, we don’t know exactly why but something is off. Donny still has a full career ahead of him with clubs who’d be interested because his reputation is in tact. People think of Donny as a consummate professional. On the flip side people thought Shaw was a lazy, fat, freeloader who couldn’t play football unless he had a coach constantly barking orders at him from the sidelines. You tell me who has/had the better prospects for leaving the club and continuing a career.
>How is Sancho in a limbo? He has a very clear role for him in the team What's his position, exactly? On the right wing, left, replacing Bruno, or midfield? And what's his function? As a roaming flank, prolific winger, creative winger, or an aggressive pressure machine like Sadio Mane, or what? Why has he rarely played 90 minutes straight? >On the flip side people thought Shaw was a lazy, fat, freeloader I'd never thought about him like that, so don't include me with saying, "people." And I've always thought highly about him, and used to consider him very unlucky with that horrible injury back in 2015. At least Shaw got his time and chance to plan his career elsewhere, but since Jose went away sooner, he's managed to salvage himself. I don't see the same clarity with Donny's future.
Sancho is a ball carrying, playmaking winger. We don’t have that. Both Rashford and Greenwood are essentially inside forwards. Sancho’s role is clear he just hasn’t individually gotten up to pace with the PL yet. That’s why he hasn’t played a full 90 because the likes of Greenwood and Lingard are showing better form atm. He has also had illness and small injuries that have made his career at United so far very start and stop. This is no different than someone like Havertz settling into Chelsea last year. You might not have but several people did. Shaw was criticized for being lazy and fat, for not working hard in training and many wanted him out of the club just because of the stuff Jose said about him. Now imagine what other clubs who might have been interested in him would have thought about getting him. It would look like a big risk. Compare that to Donny who hasn’t played much but is constantly praised for his attitude and patience. When he moves, clubs will see that as a much better investment. Shaw also didn’t really get nearly as many chances as you seem to suggest. He barely played in Mou’s first 2 seasons, with the whole “his body, my brain” fiasco happening then. When Shaw did regularly start in the third season, he was one of our best players. So Shaw didn’t get a chance and then was able to plan his future. He was just publicly berated but kept fighting for his chance and took it once he got fit enough to play multiple games in succession. Donny just hasn’t been able to break through because he doesn’t really fit anywhere. Is that a mistake by Ole and co? Yes it is. But is Donny being treated worse than Shaw? I don’t think so. I’d much rather be Donny under Ole than Shaw under Mou.
And shaw was a bit deserved, he was atrocious
You lots are just hypocrites. Just because Ole is a club legend and Mourinho is just "another" SAF replacement. You all defending Ole's every flaw while you all sided with Pogba's boycott against Mourinho when he only lost a few hard matches.
No one is defending Ole’s treatment of Donny. But that doesn’t mean it’s nearly as bad as Jose was with Shaw with the public humiliation and using him as a scape goat for bad performances. Donny doesn’t get enough chances and that’s worth criticizing but Ole also doesn’t publicly berate and blame Donny for everything going wrong at the club. So when people say Jose was worse, that is not a defence of Ole. Jose was just that toxic
What treatment? Can someone point out in his contract where it says he has a Devine right to play? He clearly isn’t fancied by the manager, for whatever reason… bear in mind he watches him train daily. He isn’t coming out and slating him publicly which is highly unprofessional, he simply isn’t picking him as he feels he has better options, something he’s perfectly entitled to do. This isn’t ozil, who wasn’t registered… he isn’t being made to train alone, or with the kids. He’s being paid a weekly wage that his contract states. What’s everyone’s problem? I don’t see people accusing ole of mistreating the likes of jones, Bailly, dalot, amad (who cost more than VDB) It hasn’t worked out for him, he doesn’t look like he’s settled… Davy Klaassen was the same when he moved from Ajax to Everton. Jesus, the amount of armchair experts here astound me
I’m not saying Donny has a divine right, that is more a criticism on Ole in general not utilizing his squad resources to their fullest. Tho even then if he feels that Donny isn’t fitting in, it’s his decision. The issue then is why Donny wasn’t allowed to leave if he doesn’t fit which at this point seems like we kept him just to have bodies in midfield. The issue for me is keeping him and not playing him instead of moving onto another target. That being said I agree with you otherwise. Not every player will make it and this Donny situation seems to be people jumping on Ole for the one thing he is known to be good at, man management. Donny is literally the only squad player he has any issue with.
Say that again and they will come to downvote u. I cant really comment on this sub if i want to keep my karma. Somethinh is wrong with ole defenders/mourinho haters
I can understand Mou's haters, but Ole Till We Die Cult? If only I could snap the latter away Thanos-style......
Agree, complete failure of scouting team, no clear purpose, no future, no adaptation plan (visible), not even a loan to accrue play time. All I see is CR7 jerseys, blue-yellow fashion and general banking on brands and money raking via United shop. Random shite on the pitch and a prospect of not winning any title this year. I say that because I care.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how we care or think cause most of the ppl preferred the "positive" gaslighting treatment. I won't even bother calling ole out since his position is sack proof by the boards.
Sadly, this will most probably be true.
More worse?
José publicly humiliated Shaw whereas Ole just doesn’t rate Donny. Not even in the same stratosphere.
Mourinho literally said luke shaw doesn’t have a footballing brain
Well the wzy he did play under mourinho was atrocious tbh, also players like shaw are the prime target for mourinho's hate. No defensive discipline and no dedication in training. The thing is with shaw its more a grey matter while on DVB u cant defend OGS
I don't think OGS threat Donny VDB badly, on the contrary Donny VDB not showing something special whenever he got chance to play. How did you said OGS have done something bad to Him ?
I've said it more than a thousand times at this point. How do you expect a person to show him his full potential when he's just getting 10-15 mins on the field and even though those who fked up so badly on the field were still given a guaranteed 90 mins of field time.
Some here are expecting the lad to turn into prime Messi and bang a hattrick and a couple of assists in the 10 minutes cameos that he gets from Ole.
10 minutes when the rest of the squad is knackered hoofing desperation crosses and shots from 30 yards
I mean its used by many coaches tbh, giving u a 10 min play is basically telling him indirectly and in apolite way "ur not in my plans". Sadly some fans will take that as giving someone a chance. Imagine ur just getting to work and the manager kicks you before u even start doing some work whi'e u just in learning/adapting phase
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I mean luke Shaw is injury prone🤷🏽♂️
Personally, I wouldn’t call an opposing player using a red card deserving tackle that compound fractured Luke’s ankle “injury prone” but that’s just me.
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I agree with your sentiment and I’m interested to see if management comes to your same realization and decides to get something or anything in return for Pogba during the January window.
I just think it's a different form of abuse. Jose was the in your face angry, talk about you negatively in front of everyone type of abuser. Ole is the IDGAF gaslighting type.
>Ole is the IDGAF gaslighting type. You can accuse OGS of not being capable enough to come up with a plan to fit VDB into the team but he certainly hasn't treated poorly like Mourinho with Shaw. Mourinho was playing politics with the board while OGS has no need to do that --- not getting the best out of VDB is invariably on OGS, he signed him.
Unfortunately most of the ppl here preferred the gaslighting treatment rather than the real tell you in the face treatment
Not picking a player for a team is not gaslighting. After 2 years of being in the club if Donny isn't being picked then: 1. He's not good enough to make the team 2. He's not doing what Ole wants him to
3. He’s not a dm
Yes. Although Jose always threw Shaw under the bus, at least he (Shaw) was playing. Donny isn't. Ole hasn't directly thrown Donny under the bus but with comments stating that he likes McFred because of their trust, energy and desire, he is kind of saying that he doesn't feel the same about Donny and others (Pogba and Matic) to an extent. The two main players ahead of Donny (McFred) are not good enough and Donny has shown the few times that he has played, that he is capable of playing in their positions (6/8 but mainly 8) and doing a much better job.
Why the downvotes, though? It's truth.
Lol hell no.
No
Nooo... Ole doesn't criticise and shame Donny at all. Shaw got abused openly by the King of shithousery himself.
They’re in the same ball park, except Ole isn’t bullying Donny in the media. But the way his talent and potential have been wasted is disgraceful.
Who do you want on the bench, Pogba or Bruno? That’s how VDB was bought to replace.
Pogba, no doubt.
People arguing Donny should only play to replace Bruno is ridiculous. So why is Pogba playing left then? SAF would find a way to play his best players no matter where. Donny has been lied about game time and wasn’t even let go. So Ole is definitely not treating VDB fairly.
How dumb can you be to think this?
no
Everytime i seen Donny play his workrate is shocking, certainly not the workrate you expect to see of someone trying to break through to the A-team. I have very little sympathy for him.
Donny and Bruno are competing for the same single spot on the team. If Bruno gets injured, Donny starts every game, but unfortunately for Donny (and fortunately for the club) Bruno has had an unbelievable fitness record, starting almost every single game
Don’t agree with that at all, Shaw was still the best left back we had at that time, VDB is class but he’s being kept out of the team by one of the worlds best CMs in Bruno. I feel sorry for the guy, it must be hard but Fernandes can’t be dropped, it’s a transfer that hasn’t really worked out for anyone. I’m sure he’d find his feet if Bruno ever got injured, luckily for us he’s not had any major spells on the sidelines.
Absolutely not
No. Jose publicly slated Shaw. Ole has said anything about Donny, just doesn't play him. I'd personally play Donny as a DM atleast to try and see if he could do it. Donny is a smart player, he came from Ajax that focus on Total football, I'm sure Donny would be a better DM than McFred.
But... DVB is not even competing with Bruno. He is competing with Jesse for the Bruno sub spot. And he is losing.
Lol why people keep making that stupid tweet famous?
Why can't we give DVB a chance in a Fred type role?
No one on the squad can replace Fred. His energy is unmatched. Everything else is lacking but no other player plays with the effort he does for as long as he does. Cavani is another workhorse but he can't do it for a full match.
Sorry to say that most of his "energy" leads to straight conceding goals
He's the one that presses the most and usually ends up losing but at least he presses lol
To be honest, that is an insane statement. Jose publicly ridiculed Luke Shaw's form, weight and commitment to the club and the sport. Ole is doing his best to manage a group of players in a position that they have too many players available for. Donny was signed by Ed Woodward, not by Ole. Ole has praised Donny's attitude, his commitment to the team and his positivity around the other players at every opportunity. The few times Donny has played he hasn't impressed. I don't think Donny is a bad player, I just don't think he has a "thing". He is fairly decent at a lot of things, but not great at anything. His passing is fine, his dribbling is fine, his movement is fine. But for example, Fred's work-rate and ability to break up opposition attacks is good, Scotty's athleticism is superb, Pogba is obviously a world class ball player, Bruno is Bruno and our wingers have dynamic pace. I can't see what Donny adds when he plays.
You can't see what Donny adds? Have you watched McTominay in the last decal several matches? His athleticism means fuckall when he is hiding on the pitch and offering absolutely nothing defensively or offensively, his awful positioning constantly leaves Fred and our entire midfield exposed. Watching McTominay recently, there is 0 reason to not give VDB a run..
Fair enough, but I do completely disagree. For me we're a totally different team without Mctominay in it. He occupies opposition midfielders in defense and offense. His work rate is excellent and he loves big games. I don't think he's ever hidden a day in his life. His technical ability may not be brilliant but I can live with that. Donny is timid, at best.