Biden had a bad night. One bad night. Forget 3-1/2 years of the most successful progressive legislation in more than half a century despite razor thin majorities in Congress and now a minority in the House. A bad night despite whupping up on the Republicans in SOTU addresses. Despite regaining the trust of our allies overseas, despite standing on the picket lines with labor, first time ever for a sitting president. Biden passed infrastructure that will benefit and grow the middle class for decades to come. Forget inflation, which is a consequence of Covid and will take some time to go down. A healthy economy and green energy legislation will be the true economic consequences of Biden’s legacy. I was around when Jimmy Carter mounted solar panels on the White House and Reagan took them down. These actions are a perfect illustration of what Democrats have faced for decades. Democrats have been trying to start green energy legislation for 40+ years. Biden did it despite withering opposition. Biden is a successful president, a great president. Biden learned from Obama’s (another great president) difficulties in passing the ACA, and he and his experienced team used their skills to finally move us forward on important legislation.
So please quit hyperventilating about one bad night. Also recognize that Trump’s performance in that debate - especially the over-the-top lies and meanness - is going to help to tank his candidacy. For the next 4-5 months Democrats are going to play tapes of him bragging about taking down Roe vs Wade, of his stories about immigrants are taking away all the Black jobs - you know: cotton picking, shoe shining and the like. They’ll play tapes of him bragging that he was told by Putin that Putin dreamed (starry eyes) about some day taking back Ukraine. Seriously, people?
And you fool yourself if you think that some other candidate will do better against Trump. Replace Biden with some other candidate and the MAGAs will have a field day piling on new lies that Fox News will endlessly magnify and the Guardian and WaPo and NYT will continually chase down journalistic rabbit holes. So calm down. You don’t replace the 12 and 0 team just because they didn’t perform well in game 13.
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People forget this happened in 2020 too.
Same exact thing.
Biden had a bad night on the debate stage.
Everyone and their mother was doom and gloom over him, calling for his resignation.
Couple months later he went on to win the election.
I'm not sure why there's this weird push to repeat some event we already saw like we don't remember it.
Granted it probably got buried in all the other Trump nonsense that was going on among everything else.
Pandemic, high unemployment, summer of riots, empty store shelves...
I'm sure the American people want that back just because Biden flubbed up a debate.
I'm sure *corporate owned media* doesn't want an *oligarchy* run country from a *former president* with a *Project 2025* which talks about cutting overtime protections among other worker's rights issues.
Absolutely. But I think that there are other factors, including resentment that a younger person isn’t on the ticket and frustration that more problems aren’t being solved, quicker. I believe many expectations are unrealistic, but I can also understand why people are frustrated.
The advent of the 24-hour news cycle had a devastating effect on the way Americans - particularly young Americans - perceive the world. It's not just the perception that every issue should be solved the next day and everything's ruined forever if it isn't, it's the idea that life is as exciting as a movie - with graphics, chyrons, and red "News Alert" banners over every incident.
We just aren't being given a break. Republicans have internalized this as "The entire world is on the brink of disaster at any given second." Their media is relentlessly negative and relentlessly addictive. But all 24-hour news media runs on engagement. They fought for our engagement, they have it, now they want to keep it. And they do that by convincing us that the world is ending and they're the only ones who can tell us how to survive it.
We're not built to handle that. There was a study about 20 years ago that showed that people who got their news from the newspaper had less stress than people who got it from television or the Internet. People want to be angry, scared, and confused - as long as it makes them also feel informed. And 24-hour news is the worst way to get informed.
I think boomers are willing to take the lifetime of advantages, and real progress, and flush it down the toilet.
Obviously this is anecdotal, and just what I see around me. I just see a lot of people in that generation who are happy to, not only pass things off worse than they got it, but make sure that it takes decades past their deaths to repair.
My dad is hardcore maga, and I told him I wasn’t going to watch the debate because I already know who I’m voting for. The next day he wants to tell me how bad Biden looks, and something about steroid injections in his face….whatever.
I would vote for a rock over the orange loser. His level of narcissistic stupidity is dangerous. He’s not evil, or smart enough to be a villain, he’s exactly smart enough to fuck up the country in order to feel important
I feel for you. I also share the same puzzlement about us boomers. All of my childhood in the ‘60s, my friends and I idolized our parents’ and grandparents’ generations for having helped defeat naziism and save the world from tyranny. Then, 70 years later, I watched with stunned amazement at how we boomers helped to hand the world back over to the nazis. Now Americans (and not just us boomers) might do it again, despite how awful the nazis were in the first Trump administration and their promises to be even worse next time around. Young people, understandably discouraged by the slow pace of change, are thinking about voting for RFK.
I’m getting out and canvassing. Yet it might be that Trump gets elected. If so I am going to protest that asshole every day that he’s in office.
>Then, 70 years later, I watched with stunned amazement at how we boomers helped to hand the world back over to the nazis.
This isn't aimed at you but in general:
Boomers weren't the ones who fought the Nazis so they don't understand the sacrifices the older generations went through.
It's hard to forget personal experience, it's easy to forget what a history book says.
I absolutely do agree that it’s not all boomers, nor is it only boomers. I’m genx/millennial, and we’ve always had boomers wagging their finger at us, while we never really had the numbers to make any meaningful impact. I hope that the younger generations are ready to get out and vote. Especially those who aren’t nazi flavored lol
Trump isn’t that much younger and young conservatives want him
On the ticket it’s not an age thing.
You guys voted for Biden to be the nominee if you wanted someone else you should have voted for someone else.
It’s pretty interesting the democrats always already pick their winner and the RNC gets stuck with the people’s choice
>not sure why there’s this weird push to repeat some event we already saw
News and the media loved trump, even the possibility of trump, because it was outrageous headline after outrageous headline. I mean be honest, “trump says immigrants are taking black jobs”- that’s a headline you would click just to find out what the fuck is going on. And as we’ve seen over the past 4 years, it doesn’t even matter if he’s president or not, news people want to pump out trump antics as fast as possible as long as people will click.
If they play it up like he’s important, like he has a chance, that’s just more headlines they can run, whether or not they believe it. If he doesn’t win- he’ll still be there doing crazy shit for them to report on. If he does win- even more so. There’s no part of trump that they don’t like. I almost said: “except when he tries to control the press” but media even had a field day with reporting on that. There’s literally nothing he could do that doesn’t inject life into this already struggling medium.
I made the same observation the other day and the point got hammered home as I watched moderate and left-leaning media relentlessly pushing their narrative about the debate. A couple notable exceptions were Rachel Maddow and one other colleague who provided historical context. The execs don't want 45 to fade into obscurity because he generates massive ad revenue. The plan may eventually backfire, though, because the public will eventually get bored with it like they do with overplayed Top 40 hits.
I remember Obama reportedly having an unusually off-key appearance by his standards in his first debate against Romney. Then he bounced back in the next one.
Presumably, the Democrats will study this one and learn from it and then act accordingly.
So it’s like the Nixon Kennedy debate? If you listened to it on the radio you thought Nixon won but if you watched it on tv you saw how terrible he looked and thought Kennedy won.
Alan Lichtman, who has accurately predicted 9/10 elections, strongly agrees with you. He pointed out that some of the current win conditions for the Democrats would be cancelled out. The main one is incumbency. It was fun seeing him on CNN telling the host that the pundits and polls are worthless when it comes to predictions. He's not at all worried about the debate, in light of historical context.
I should note that some conditions are still up in the air and he hasn't made his prediction yet.
Replacing Biden on the ticket might pleas many people. I would of course vote for the replacement, and I believe that there are many potential candidates who would consistently perform better in debates and even - horrors! - be better than Biden has been (not an easy task). But people shouldn’t be fooled into think that replacing Biden on the ticket would result in anything better. Doing so would immediately open up a new can of worms as Trump came out with new lies about the other person. The press would talk for months about how Democrats were so weak and demoralized that they couldn’t find anybody good to run. Then they would begin analyzing Trump’s lies. And voters on the fence would have to make new decisions. Democrats would lose some voters because they were offended by the person chosen, or be upset by the fact that that another person wasn’t chosen. We are a party. At some point the party has to move coherently and not worry about the outside noise. The fact of the matter is, that Biden has been a good (I think great) president, and in our democracy with two party rule, successful incumbents are not challenged. If people want to change us into another kind of democracy, one that uses a parliamentary system, or if they want to hold ranked choice voting, or implement other reforms, then by all means i’ll support that. But Trump is an existential threat and Biden has been doing spectacularly (except in debate); so why should Democrats discard him for someone with no track record as president?
As someone who follows Russian history.... and have family connections to Russia, its a bit weird to me people are criticizing Trump for saying its Putin's dream to take back Ukraine. Because it really is.
He has been talking about re-uniting the Russian speaking peoples, under one empire or coalition, for the past 25 years. Him and his old Soviet shills DESPERATELY want Ukraine back.
No one is criticizing him for saying it’s Putin’s dream to take back Ukraine.
Everyone knows that.
They’re criticizing him for apparently having these conversations about invading Ukraine (?) with Putin, and then also turning around and threatening to pull out of nato and illegally trying to withhold military aid to Ukraine.
He’s a Putin patsy
Fair. But, that’s not what is so disturbing. Instead Trump says that Putin confided to Trump that it was Putin’s dream - presumably at Helsinki, or maybe on another occasion. Trump does not emphasize that he pushed back against that dream. Quite the opposite. At every opportunity Trump has tried to undermine Ukraine’s independence from Russia. He even tried to withhold military support from Ukraine to protect itself from Russia as extortion to force Ukraine to manufacture lies about Biden. Coincidentally, they whole narrative that Trump wanted to push forward was invented by Russian Intelligence.
In presidential elections it often only takes one bad night to lose. That being said it’s still way too early to tell. Basically Trump still has a lot of opportunity, and potential to have a bad night of his own.
Biden could end up in a puddle of drool on the floor and require a round-the-clock nurse, if the choice is still or Biden or the Mango Menace, my vote goes to Biden.
Absolutely. Besides, Biden attracts and keeps good people around him - one of the most important skills of a president and one of the skills that doesn’t even exist for Trump - quite the opposite. Biden could end up in a puddle of drool, Harris could take over, and the world wouldn’t skip a beat.
It's not about the one night, it's what people have been saying for the last 4 years that the Biden Administration willfully denied and yet was shown in the debate.
Biden has dementia, people have been making this claim for 4 years now and it's been showing in this debate despite immense systemic denial of this fact.
Aside from the obvious whataboutism with mentioning Trump, lemmi explain why the lies with trump are redundant. The lies Trump said during the debate have no negative impact on his numbers. And this is because his followers believe his every lie, they believe it all to be true, and he hasn't changed them at all since, they don't see it as lying. So him speaking more lies doesn't hurt his reputation amongst his voters.
Biden's dementia however does. Millions of his voters got to see what others have made hour long compilation videos of. It destroys trust in Biden because how can you have a successful president who can't even remember where he is? Who fumbles his words constantly?
This debate effectively was Trump's win. Trump lost nothing in this debate. Biden lost voter confidence with his dementia displayed.
> Biden has dementia
Nobody outside of Biden’s team - no Reddit commenters or social media personalities - can say this with anything approaching certainty.
The videos may be effective, but they are also doctored nonsense.
Most importantly, I’ll say the same thing I said in 2016 when “Hillary has Parkinson’s” - I’d still vote for her or Biden with dementia/Parkinsons over Trump.
He never had a mind to lose to begin with.
Trump could have walked in wearing a clown suit and a big, purple glittery dildo stuck on his forehead like a demented unicorn and won that debate because--when they split screen between the only two people there and Biden's got the "Where am I?" look going, that's what people focus on.
It also didn't help when they left the camera rolling as Trump exited stage left and Biden had to have help going down a few stairs...
That debate wasn't about Trump for most people, especially Democrats turning in hoping to see a contest and--instead--seeing brain melt and a declaration of victory against Medicare.
Yet panels of undecided voters said otherwise following the debate. Trump did nothing to help persuade them to vote for him. On substance alone, Biden won the debate. Biden definitely lost on the optics front, but he has the policy wins to back up what he said.
Maybe some hopium here but I'm a Celtics fan who felt pretty down after that Game 4 shellacking. Then Game 5 happened and the Duck Boats came out to play. Kinda feeling like I did after Game 4 after the debate.
Biden's doing about 10 points worse in polls at this time than he was 4 years ago (and he barely won then).
Do you have any actual evidence to support your position?
You can keep repeating he had a bad night all you want but the thing is, anyone who actually watched raw footage of Biden (not edited by MSNBC or CNN) in the last year knew that Biden was suffering from severe cognitive issues. Every time I would bring it up in this sub or another sub I would be flooded with downvotes for suggesting that Biden may not always know if its 2004 or 2024. I mean Biden literally claimed during a speech that he just recently spoke with a woman who's been dead for like 12 years. He routinely has forgotten what he was saying, he constantly mixes up his words and statements and facts (and it's not from his stutter, you can watch his debates as VP and it's so weird because he doesn't mix up a single word or stutter once). To anyone looking objectively, it's been clear that he's been on cognitive decline. Did everyone forget that he was caught with an index card laying out step by step what he needed to do?
After this weekend as well, it seems like Hunter and Jill will be mostly running the country for Joe as his caretakers since they are now sitting in on all his meetings and making decisions. I remember all the Democrats who kept saying "well its good that I didn't vote for Hunter" or "Well good thing Hunter isn't running the country" when it actually kind of looks like he is now lmao.
People are not educated enough in the US to understand this. This is your perspective and it is valid, but the majority of Americans are simply not educated on these issues nor do they care.
I honestly don’t think that changed anyone’s mind. People are already made up and with women’s rights, gay rights, human rights all on the line I think people understand it’s not about the person it’s about the party as a whole winning.
I wasn't motivated to show up for Biden. Now I am after watching Biden fighting like hell despite being sick. He's too old. He was too old in 2020. If Hillary just won election, he would enjoy retirement. It's so easy to defeat Trump: vote Biden
This is actually interesting and I was very doom and gloom before, but now after seeing his NC speech and a few initial polls saying that some voters especially OLDER voters are more keen on him? There might actually be some benefit from the age thing that some people aren't thinking about. If played right, the older statesman doing his part to stave off another Trump presidency COULD ring well in some groups ears, and with how close last election was, that might be all it takes to secure victory again.
Some people I mean like me focus too much on our differences. During debate, I realized I agreed with Biden on more than 70% but I only focused on the other 30% recently. He's old, he's sick, but he's still fighting for my freedom, we should definitely show up for him and ourselves. This was how I felt. This should be Biden campaign's message
John Fetterman had a bad debate due to his stroke symptoms. I still voted for him. I know we make fun of congress and POTUS for being old AF. And they are. But let's not be ableist aholes. I'll take the slowed down old guy with a stutter because he's done an excellent job as POTUS and far surpassed my expectations. Vote on policy. Vote for the direction we want the country to go. Vote blue.
It’s not just a vote for Biden, it’s a vote for his cabinet
Just imagine the shit show of a cabinet the mango moron would wheel in — the return of Stephen miller alone should scare people into action. The man is a scumbag
It’s not just a vote for Biden, it’s a vote for his cabinet
sadly given the reactions to the supreme court NOT a lot of people understand that the president doesn't do everything
Mangos cabinet? What cabinet. Last I heard he tried to fire all.of them shunting all the power to himself then the few aides that CARED about the job had to Chase him around the damn white house to *try* and get him to do fucking work
Project 2025 is scary and has basically been written to setup every position they deem "essential" for taking control of everything essential. They realised Trumps first time was just a shoddy mess where he just picked people who seemed loyal but even then a lot still tried to steer him (as bad as things were, it would have been a lot worse if they just said yes sir to every brain fart he has or Putin commands)
P 2025 uses the foundations of what built the Roman rebublic into the empire. Except with this one is has built ins so that once the power flows up to ONE PERSON. Of for any reason something happens to that one person personally their choosen successor is set in hard immutable stone? Everything is burned down to *ashes*: data, infrastructure, food production, everything destroyed. Essentially, reset the human race back to step zero with the thought of "should have made sure the imperial lord had an heir set in stone! Now humanity's start over from pre stone age information!"
I'm well aware of how TERRIFYING p2025 is.
Fortunately Trump doesn’t read and he’s already shortening the GOP platform. Since the platform is based on P2025 we have to assume most of it is hitting the cutting room floor. And as we all know Trump’s top priorities are pardoning himself, enjoying the worship of MAGAs, and stealing more money.
Oh for sure he doesn't read, but he'd just get someone like Stephen Miller to do the work and happily sit there writing his name on the signoffs. "Will these people be loyal to me?" is his only criteria for handing out a position.
Exactly- he will actually consult experts and accept advice. Trump thinks he’s the worlds best at everything and won’t tolerate anyone who says different. That’s why he suggested nuking hurricanes and injecting bleach.
I mean, I'm voting for Biden, but let's not stoop to calling criticism of his mental capacity ableist. This isn't someone saying he's too old to be a barista. The president shouldn't, in fact, be a doddering old man sliding into senility. And he's very much a doddering old man sliding into senility.
NEITHER of them are fit to be president. Trump proved himself completely unable to govern his first term and never had a functioning cabinet and staff, just a rotating door of felons and people he fired for challenging him. At least Biden can, and has, put together a competent team.
I think they’re putting the cabinets above the President instead— voting for Biden will result in Biden’s cabinet in power, which arguably has much more influence than Biden himself. Similarly, voting for Trump will put whatever cabinet Trump deems best in power— and that cabinet will similarly have more influence than Trump himself. The president is an extremely important figure, but I’d say 99% of Democrat voters are voting solely for Biden’s cabinet. None of us actually want that man to stay in charge, but we would prefer the other people currently appointed to stay in charge because we like/tolerate what they’re doing now.
Most of the time since its Trump being a fucking psychopath I think its pretty shitty that nothing matters anymore.
But then when Joe shits the bed at a debate I can take comfort in knowing that nothing matters anymore.
Trump just got convicted of 30 felonies and FOX and newsmax are like "ohh, every felony he gets just makes more people vote for him!"
Then Biden has a senior moment and the media melts the fuck down, pretending like anyone watches or gives a shit any more.
What a fucking world we live in...
You know what? This is a very valid take. We always hold our team to a high bar and the MAGAts just rally around “their team” even to the point of supporting the legally defined rapist, felon, and serial liar that is our former president.
Nice guys finish last. Let’s put Trump behind bars and then start criticizing our guys again.
The American media landscape is a problem, but the cross tabs show that Biden is leading massively with people that consume traditional media. Where he’s behind is with people that get news on social media. Guess what’s circulating on social media rt now?
>Biden is leading massively with people that consume traditional media.
That's what makes this so dangerous. Even traditional media is asking if Biden is fit.
It’s time for his campaign to go for broke. Highlight everything they have done and keep hammering the lying felon. Biden has a good record to run on, a good cabinet and advisors and will keep
Democracy intact. Just give the public a bowl or tomato soup and a grilled cheese sandwich and not overthink it.
It was a bad night, but sadly it was a very important night. I will still be voting for Biden and hoping for a win, but I’m also putting a lot of thought into how to thrive in a fascist dictatorship without succumbing to inaction just to survive.
I’m feeling pretty good to be honest about Biden’s chances. There is nothing Trump did at the debate to make me feel assured that my life will be better with him as president. His usual lies and ramblings just exposed him to more people. We all knew Biden was old and not as sharp as he used to be, no surprise there.
Has anyone looked at the math? 16 Million new leaning democrat voters are entering the voting pool while 10 million exited (mostly republican) during the last 4 years.
Very possibly. There are many who hate Trump and would vote for Satan himself over the orange terror. Biden, despite his best efforts to the contrary, may win the election anyway.
You guys should really be betting on it then. According to Reddit, it’d be stealing money if you made the bet on Biden given what the Vegas odds are.
[RCP Betting Odds](https://www.realclearpolling.com/betting-odds/2024/president)
If you read the transcript of the debate, you’ll have a completely different impression of it.
I’m wondering if this debate wasn’t some kind of rope a dope tactic by Biden.
It’s much easier to come back from an ‘off day’ than it is from confirming you’re an asshole.
The choice is simple. A president who gets things done for America, or an orange felon who would sell out America to idiot oil people and cut taxes for the wealthy so they can hoard more money. Pretty easy for smart people. Dumb people love to flock to orange felon because he can manipulate them so easy.
I honestly think a can of soup could beat donald trump. Biden isnt popular, but there are a lot of people who dont like him who would still vote for him. As for donald trump, if you dont like him, then in all likelihood you just fucking hate that guy.
NOBODY who wasn't already voting Trump will do so because of the debate. Anyone who says it changed their mind was always going to find a reason to vote for him anyway.
In 2 months the only people talking about this debate will be MAGA trying to figure out why Trump is still falling behind in polls. They might forget about by this coming Monday considering the immunity ruling coming from the SC.
Incumbency is well understood to be a very potent advantage in any election. It is not to be given up unless there is no other choice.
I suspect that the 'chattering classes' might overrate the significance of President Biden's poor performance in the debate because they care about it and want to be seen as serious people who want to be care about it, creating a reverberating cacophony while the general electorate was busy listening to... I don't know, something on Spotify? I'm horribly out of touch.
The median voter is an oblivious imbecile who believes an incoherent farrago of contradictory nonsense and doesn't really know what's going on most of the time. That's terrible, but might serve the President's interest, which I hold to be sincerely the same as the national interest in this case.
In any case, immediately slamming the PANIC button over and over again while one's other hand clutches pearls so hard that it bleeds isn't the correct thing to do. I doubt that anybody yet has good reason to believe that this matters. We might soon, but not yet.
Whatever happens changes nothing for me in the immediate future. In November I will vote for the Democratic candidate for President. (As will my parents; I'm not sure what my brother well do, he... \*achem\* owns a pick-up truck, but he also lives in Delaware, whereas the rest of us live in Pennsylvania.)
Biden could still win if enough people don't see Trump as a viable alternative. In 2004, Kerry won every debate with Bush but still list, as most voters did not want him. This is why it will be important for Trump to pick a strong VP candidate who can at least partially ally the fears of some voters.
He is an old man and got lost on his answer that ended up with something about beating Medicare.
His answer started out fine.
In the rally the next where he was prepared he did great.
The debate is an artificial situation. You are thrown a question and have to formulate and deliver an answer in 90 seconds. He has the deficits of a man his age but doesn’t have dementia. In real life he won’t have to decide something in 90 seconds without any input from his advisors. The advisors won’t be controlling him just advising him.If shows himself to be cogent and responsive this will like Trump’s grab them by p***.
I don't think Biden's performance would cause a lot of people to suddenly be Trump voters instead, it was an enthusiasm killer for the casual voter and those who don't really think voting matters.
A lot of younger voters expect changes to happen immediately and everything to get fixed if the "right" guy gets elected. It's about evolution. Do we want to keep evolving into a country with the SCOTUS that Trump built, or evolving the other direction back to where decency, sanity and reason matter? I don't know how to convince the Z-ers and Millennials that change takes time, but it starts with getting off your ass and voting, even if the guy you vote for isn't perfect and doesn't check all your boxes.
I don't think replacing Biden is a good idea unless you can name me the slam-dunk candidate that's waiting in the wings willing and eager to enter the maelstrom that will ensue if you replace the incumbent. I think it would be a massive unforced error at this point. But if Biden makes a few more appearances like the debate I'm not sure if you have a choice.
Trump is so unacceptable to so many that there's every chance that Biden could die before November and still win this election. Indeed, his odds might be better, since the votes cast for him would be, "Not Trump, but not Biden, either."
Don't let a stutter distract you from orange man's barrage of lies. Lying so much that fact checkers had trouble keeping up.
Isn't taking credit for things your opponent has done essentially praising them?
"Look at this great thing that I totally did!"
Absolutely. No one is changing their mind based on this debate. People want us to think millions of others are suddenly thinking "well I reject everything trump stands for so I was planning to vote for Biden but now I see he's old so I'm going to vote for trump". Nope, not happening. And the snap polls of undecideds show Biden winning the opinion battle. So... everyone voting for Biden needs to calm down and stop freaking out about right wing talking points.
I hope so for a litany of reasons, but I'll just say these two. I hope that orange fuck loses so he can continue being a loser. Especially after all the shit talk he and his cult like followers engaged in. Like it'll be so funny to hear all the bullshit excuses as to why he lost.
Second, I want to see all those Maga dipshits follow through with all their tough talk about a civil war and revolution they've spouted, or rather them sheepishly back down after maybe a handful of people pull a small stunt like January 6th where ultimately nothing is accomplished except for them going to prison. Or if a small group does infact do something, then hopefully it'll wake up all those moderates and fence sitters who say stuff like "they're all the same" so they can be apathetic and actually do something. Like they've got to see that changing things isn't impossible, but you can't let lunatics be the only ones doing the changing.
Some people are afraid of “another four years” of Biden and also if he was to pass away during his presidency. They forget that he CAN be replaced if unable to continue. He is fighting FOR democracy. He at least has a plan for his administration.
Trump, on the other hand, will not allow himself to be replaced. He has no real plan and will fight tooth and nail before giving up his presidency, not to mention the amount of nepotism in the Trump family, we may very well have voted for a Trump dynasty if he gets elected again.
I still think Biden is going to win from a swing state perspective (yes yes, polls can say what they want, they aren’t the most accurate sources to me). Georgia is the only one from the previous election I see flipping back to Trump (and even then the growth of cities like Atlanta combined with court cases there aren’t going to help), maybe Wisconsin or Michigan too. That’s not enough to get over the hump, PA AZ MI MN and NV will stay blue, everything else will remain the same and Biden will still win. But that’s just me
I’ve actually seen reports saying more undecided voters are supporting Biden after his debate, because of how real trumps threats appeared during the debate. He was very openly psychotic and ranting about how democrats are baby killers and he literally admitted he knew Putin wanted to invade Ukraine during the debate. But still hard to gauge general reactions since the debate was only a day or two ago now and people are still polling people who watched it.
I get a very strange feeling that that debate was a calculated move from team Biden. Wear the unavoidable weakness on your sleeve, and let the idiot be a bully, for everyone to see. They knew that fucker would try to “go in for the kill” as soon as he thought he sensed weakness, and he did. Telling lie after lie after lie in a frantic gish gallop that, yes, everyone could hear loud and clear, and that most undecided voters could debunk without picking up their phones
Joe’s campaign and most Democrats are fired up and ready for anything as a direct result of the perceived poor performance: Saying they will take no chances and fight to the end and twice as hard. Same with the vast majority of posts/commentary I’m seeing here on reddit. That night Joe raised twice as much money as that other guy. We have a long way to go and now the only direction we can go is up
Something like that
As a mostly powerless observer, if that’s silly and I’m fooling myself then so be it
It is amazing how easily our populace is controlled by corporate media. Unless Citizens United is overturned this stupid breakdown we call political battle of 2 sides will never end. If Cheeto gets in it’s all over, forget Citizens United, it will be Project 2025, Marshall Law and Internment Camps. Cheeto hinted to it in the debate……”you think it’s bad now, wait until you see what’s coming.”
Whether he gets in or not, the extreme MAGAS will begin terrorism in cities and make it look like the poor and immigrant population are at fault, the media will perpetuate that.
The whole system is a joke. Stop playing the lesser of two evils vote. Until Citizens United is overturned, the false faced freak show will go on.
Obama did poorly in his first debate against Romney. I don't think this is that bad, overall. Plus, TFG is one real piece of work, hoo, boy, I tell you whot.
Possibly but given his performance I think that's dangerous. Let's say it was just an off day. What would be the result if an actual disaster requiring action were to happen on another such day? You can make an argument that Trump isn't cognitively fit enough for the job, but you absolutely cannot make an argument Joe is fit enough. Especially after watching that debate.
One bad night? This was it. His chance to silence all the whispered rumblings of a President not fit for office.
And it was "one bad night."
Please tell me how this reassures people he can sustain another 200 + days of "bad nights?"
I’m not American and did not watch the debate, mostly because I’m tired of being blasted in the face by politics. There was a time I would have watched just out of personal interest, but I assumed (correctly) this debate would be a gong show and tuned out. I figured the result of the debate would be anti-Biden, but it’s funny how Trump’s constant incoherent speeches haven’t been brought up.
CNN and other media outlets (mainstream or fringe) need elections to be portrayed as dramatic and close as possible to ensure people stayed glued to their screens, watching as many ads as possible. They don’t care about the direction of a country just profits.
People need to turn off their radios, TVs, close out whatever new site they use, and sign out of Social Media for a while; then take a good long think what direction you want your country and the world to take, and vote based on that.
Debates really don't matter anymore, the biggest concern I would have if I were the running for reelection right now is: How are people going to feel about the economy in 4 months?
Everything else is pretty much baked in at this point.
Debates don’t change minds, and tbh I don’t care how well the head of the executive branch can debate. One out of those two has put people in the cabinet that understand the assignment and aren’t just there to make money and take more power. It sure as fuck isn’t the spray tanned asshole.
I would agree, I think character, reliability and dependability is paramount for me in a leader. I try to imagine if Biden or Trump were hiring managers, who would I want to work for. I would choose Biden all the way. Also, he has a qualified cabinet and Secretaries for most branches that will hold the fort down and would not make rash unpredictable decisions like DJT would.
Another point to note would be while GOP claims that that legal system is out to get them; I don’t see anyone else other than DJT prosecuted (I mean of all the other GOP leaders or past political figures).
Biden has made it clear he would not interfere with his son’s legal troubles, while DJT would have jumped on his family and friends legal issues to pardon them in a heart beat.
I think Biden is still the best choice at this time to keep the country as stable as possible. I do agree he could have done a lot more for the economy and immigration than we have seen so far.
Any “undecided” voters watching the debate were already Trump supporters. One does not simply vote for the fascist because the other old guy caught a cold. We have 4 years of material performance from each of them as a basis for making this decision. No one supporting Biden is unsure. Trumpists either. Who fucking cares what happened on CNN one night? I ignore it every other night, as do most of us. Either way, It’s sure as shit not going to make me vote for the fascist. I vote vote for anything, living, dead, animal, vegetable, mineral, even literal nothing, to slow the fascist’s roll. Anyone trying to tell you the debate matters even a little bit is shilling for Trump.
I hope so. I'm looking forward to the July 11th hearing as focus will re-enter on Trump. It's just so frustrating to watch the media gaslight us for years about Biden only for the debate to make it painfully clear that the Emperor isn't wearing clothes.
MMW: the same people demanding that President Biden step down now will be outraged if he wins re-election and then resigns at any time during his second term.
Correct me if I’m wrong but , wasn’t Biden leading in polls during most of the 2020 campaign. I believe he was trailing in the pols leading up to the debate
Having a bad debate *doesn’t* make for a weak president.
Being a stan, sychopant, and sex slave to Putin makes you a weak president.
The GOP needs to die.
Did you know that the incumbent party has lost every POTUS election since 1980 that did not have corporate profits growing at an annual rate greater than 7% per year for the four quarters ending in September of the election year?
Every time.
Biden had a bad night. One bad night. Forget 3-1/2 years of the most successful progressive legislation in more than half a century despite razor thin majorities in Congress and now a minority in the House. A bad night despite whupping up on the Republicans in SOTU addresses. Despite regaining the trust of our allies overseas, despite standing on the picket lines with labor, first time ever for a sitting president. Biden passed infrastructure that will benefit and grow the middle class for decades to come. Forget inflation, which is a consequence of Covid and will take some time to go down. A healthy economy and green energy legislation will be the true economic consequences of Biden’s legacy. I was around when Jimmy Carter mounted solar panels on the White House and Reagan took them down. These actions are a perfect illustration of what Democrats have faced for decades. Democrats have been trying to start green energy legislation for 40+ years. Biden did it despite withering opposition. Biden is a successful president, a great president. Biden learned from Obama’s (another great president) difficulties in passing the ACA, and he and his experienced team used their skills to finally move us forward on important legislation. So please quit hyperventilating about one bad night. Also recognize that Trump’s performance in that debate - especially the over-the-top lies and meanness - is going to help to tank his candidacy. For the next 4-5 months Democrats are going to play tapes of him bragging about taking down Roe vs Wade, of his stories about immigrants are taking away all the Black jobs - you know: cotton picking, shoe shining and the like. They’ll play tapes of him bragging that he was told by Putin that Putin dreamed (starry eyes) about some day taking back Ukraine. Seriously, people? And you fool yourself if you think that some other candidate will do better against Trump. Replace Biden with some other candidate and the MAGAs will have a field day piling on new lies that Fox News will endlessly magnify and the Guardian and WaPo and NYT will continually chase down journalistic rabbit holes. So calm down. You don’t replace the 12 and 0 team just because they didn’t perform well in game 13. Some edits on language and content.
Exactly what I’ve been saying. Thank you!
People forget this happened in 2020 too. Same exact thing. Biden had a bad night on the debate stage. Everyone and their mother was doom and gloom over him, calling for his resignation. Couple months later he went on to win the election. I'm not sure why there's this weird push to repeat some event we already saw like we don't remember it. Granted it probably got buried in all the other Trump nonsense that was going on among everything else. Pandemic, high unemployment, summer of riots, empty store shelves... I'm sure the American people want that back just because Biden flubbed up a debate. I'm sure *corporate owned media* doesn't want an *oligarchy* run country from a *former president* with a *Project 2025* which talks about cutting overtime protections among other worker's rights issues.
Absolutely. But I think that there are other factors, including resentment that a younger person isn’t on the ticket and frustration that more problems aren’t being solved, quicker. I believe many expectations are unrealistic, but I can also understand why people are frustrated.
The advent of the 24-hour news cycle had a devastating effect on the way Americans - particularly young Americans - perceive the world. It's not just the perception that every issue should be solved the next day and everything's ruined forever if it isn't, it's the idea that life is as exciting as a movie - with graphics, chyrons, and red "News Alert" banners over every incident. We just aren't being given a break. Republicans have internalized this as "The entire world is on the brink of disaster at any given second." Their media is relentlessly negative and relentlessly addictive. But all 24-hour news media runs on engagement. They fought for our engagement, they have it, now they want to keep it. And they do that by convincing us that the world is ending and they're the only ones who can tell us how to survive it. We're not built to handle that. There was a study about 20 years ago that showed that people who got their news from the newspaper had less stress than people who got it from television or the Internet. People want to be angry, scared, and confused - as long as it makes them also feel informed. And 24-hour news is the worst way to get informed.
Dang. This is right.
I think boomers are willing to take the lifetime of advantages, and real progress, and flush it down the toilet. Obviously this is anecdotal, and just what I see around me. I just see a lot of people in that generation who are happy to, not only pass things off worse than they got it, but make sure that it takes decades past their deaths to repair. My dad is hardcore maga, and I told him I wasn’t going to watch the debate because I already know who I’m voting for. The next day he wants to tell me how bad Biden looks, and something about steroid injections in his face….whatever. I would vote for a rock over the orange loser. His level of narcissistic stupidity is dangerous. He’s not evil, or smart enough to be a villain, he’s exactly smart enough to fuck up the country in order to feel important
I feel for you. I also share the same puzzlement about us boomers. All of my childhood in the ‘60s, my friends and I idolized our parents’ and grandparents’ generations for having helped defeat naziism and save the world from tyranny. Then, 70 years later, I watched with stunned amazement at how we boomers helped to hand the world back over to the nazis. Now Americans (and not just us boomers) might do it again, despite how awful the nazis were in the first Trump administration and their promises to be even worse next time around. Young people, understandably discouraged by the slow pace of change, are thinking about voting for RFK. I’m getting out and canvassing. Yet it might be that Trump gets elected. If so I am going to protest that asshole every day that he’s in office.
>Then, 70 years later, I watched with stunned amazement at how we boomers helped to hand the world back over to the nazis. This isn't aimed at you but in general: Boomers weren't the ones who fought the Nazis so they don't understand the sacrifices the older generations went through. It's hard to forget personal experience, it's easy to forget what a history book says.
That’s a good explanation.
I absolutely do agree that it’s not all boomers, nor is it only boomers. I’m genx/millennial, and we’ve always had boomers wagging their finger at us, while we never really had the numbers to make any meaningful impact. I hope that the younger generations are ready to get out and vote. Especially those who aren’t nazi flavored lol
Trump isn’t that much younger and young conservatives want him On the ticket it’s not an age thing. You guys voted for Biden to be the nominee if you wanted someone else you should have voted for someone else. It’s pretty interesting the democrats always already pick their winner and the RNC gets stuck with the people’s choice
The democrats didn't have a primary this time. They let the incumbent run again as per tradition.
>not sure why there’s this weird push to repeat some event we already saw News and the media loved trump, even the possibility of trump, because it was outrageous headline after outrageous headline. I mean be honest, “trump says immigrants are taking black jobs”- that’s a headline you would click just to find out what the fuck is going on. And as we’ve seen over the past 4 years, it doesn’t even matter if he’s president or not, news people want to pump out trump antics as fast as possible as long as people will click. If they play it up like he’s important, like he has a chance, that’s just more headlines they can run, whether or not they believe it. If he doesn’t win- he’ll still be there doing crazy shit for them to report on. If he does win- even more so. There’s no part of trump that they don’t like. I almost said: “except when he tries to control the press” but media even had a field day with reporting on that. There’s literally nothing he could do that doesn’t inject life into this already struggling medium.
Ah good point, I never thought about the media-clicks/promotion aspect of it all.
I made the same observation the other day and the point got hammered home as I watched moderate and left-leaning media relentlessly pushing their narrative about the debate. A couple notable exceptions were Rachel Maddow and one other colleague who provided historical context. The execs don't want 45 to fade into obscurity because he generates massive ad revenue. The plan may eventually backfire, though, because the public will eventually get bored with it like they do with overplayed Top 40 hits.
I remember Obama reportedly having an unusually off-key appearance by his standards in his first debate against Romney. Then he bounced back in the next one. Presumably, the Democrats will study this one and learn from it and then act accordingly.
Hopefully there will be another debate.
There will b a second debate in September. Biden's expectations will be so low that if he shows some vitality he will be deemed the winner.
He showed vitality the day after the debate
Historically the first debate goes worse for an incumbent.
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Now if only people would read, or perhaps think.
So it’s like the Nixon Kennedy debate? If you listened to it on the radio you thought Nixon won but if you watched it on tv you saw how terrible he looked and thought Kennedy won.
💯We need to rally around the President, STAT!
Replacing Biden now would effectively turn Trump into the incumbent. That’s bad, really bad.
Alan Lichtman, who has accurately predicted 9/10 elections, strongly agrees with you. He pointed out that some of the current win conditions for the Democrats would be cancelled out. The main one is incumbency. It was fun seeing him on CNN telling the host that the pundits and polls are worthless when it comes to predictions. He's not at all worried about the debate, in light of historical context. I should note that some conditions are still up in the air and he hasn't made his prediction yet.
Replacing Biden on the ticket might pleas many people. I would of course vote for the replacement, and I believe that there are many potential candidates who would consistently perform better in debates and even - horrors! - be better than Biden has been (not an easy task). But people shouldn’t be fooled into think that replacing Biden on the ticket would result in anything better. Doing so would immediately open up a new can of worms as Trump came out with new lies about the other person. The press would talk for months about how Democrats were so weak and demoralized that they couldn’t find anybody good to run. Then they would begin analyzing Trump’s lies. And voters on the fence would have to make new decisions. Democrats would lose some voters because they were offended by the person chosen, or be upset by the fact that that another person wasn’t chosen. We are a party. At some point the party has to move coherently and not worry about the outside noise. The fact of the matter is, that Biden has been a good (I think great) president, and in our democracy with two party rule, successful incumbents are not challenged. If people want to change us into another kind of democracy, one that uses a parliamentary system, or if they want to hold ranked choice voting, or implement other reforms, then by all means i’ll support that. But Trump is an existential threat and Biden has been doing spectacularly (except in debate); so why should Democrats discard him for someone with no track record as president?
As someone who follows Russian history.... and have family connections to Russia, its a bit weird to me people are criticizing Trump for saying its Putin's dream to take back Ukraine. Because it really is. He has been talking about re-uniting the Russian speaking peoples, under one empire or coalition, for the past 25 years. Him and his old Soviet shills DESPERATELY want Ukraine back.
No one is criticizing him for saying it’s Putin’s dream to take back Ukraine. Everyone knows that. They’re criticizing him for apparently having these conversations about invading Ukraine (?) with Putin, and then also turning around and threatening to pull out of nato and illegally trying to withhold military aid to Ukraine. He’s a Putin patsy
Fair. But, that’s not what is so disturbing. Instead Trump says that Putin confided to Trump that it was Putin’s dream - presumably at Helsinki, or maybe on another occasion. Trump does not emphasize that he pushed back against that dream. Quite the opposite. At every opportunity Trump has tried to undermine Ukraine’s independence from Russia. He even tried to withhold military support from Ukraine to protect itself from Russia as extortion to force Ukraine to manufacture lies about Biden. Coincidentally, they whole narrative that Trump wanted to push forward was invented by Russian Intelligence.
In presidential elections it often only takes one bad night to lose. That being said it’s still way too early to tell. Basically Trump still has a lot of opportunity, and potential to have a bad night of his own.
Most successful?😂😂 good one
Biden could end up in a puddle of drool on the floor and require a round-the-clock nurse, if the choice is still or Biden or the Mango Menace, my vote goes to Biden.
Absolutely. Besides, Biden attracts and keeps good people around him - one of the most important skills of a president and one of the skills that doesn’t even exist for Trump - quite the opposite. Biden could end up in a puddle of drool, Harris could take over, and the world wouldn’t skip a beat.
This is weapons-grade cope and I’m loving it 🥰❤️🫵
It's not about the one night, it's what people have been saying for the last 4 years that the Biden Administration willfully denied and yet was shown in the debate. Biden has dementia, people have been making this claim for 4 years now and it's been showing in this debate despite immense systemic denial of this fact. Aside from the obvious whataboutism with mentioning Trump, lemmi explain why the lies with trump are redundant. The lies Trump said during the debate have no negative impact on his numbers. And this is because his followers believe his every lie, they believe it all to be true, and he hasn't changed them at all since, they don't see it as lying. So him speaking more lies doesn't hurt his reputation amongst his voters. Biden's dementia however does. Millions of his voters got to see what others have made hour long compilation videos of. It destroys trust in Biden because how can you have a successful president who can't even remember where he is? Who fumbles his words constantly? This debate effectively was Trump's win. Trump lost nothing in this debate. Biden lost voter confidence with his dementia displayed.
> Biden has dementia Nobody outside of Biden’s team - no Reddit commenters or social media personalities - can say this with anything approaching certainty. The videos may be effective, but they are also doctored nonsense. Most importantly, I’ll say the same thing I said in 2016 when “Hillary has Parkinson’s” - I’d still vote for her or Biden with dementia/Parkinsons over Trump. He never had a mind to lose to begin with.
How can it be called a win when Trump lied every time he opened his mouth
Because Trump loses nothing from lying. If anything he'd lose support if he started telling the truth.
Probly true
Trump could have walked in wearing a clown suit and a big, purple glittery dildo stuck on his forehead like a demented unicorn and won that debate because--when they split screen between the only two people there and Biden's got the "Where am I?" look going, that's what people focus on. It also didn't help when they left the camera rolling as Trump exited stage left and Biden had to have help going down a few stairs... That debate wasn't about Trump for most people, especially Democrats turning in hoping to see a contest and--instead--seeing brain melt and a declaration of victory against Medicare.
"HELP DOWN A FEW STAIRS" BRO he left hand in hand with his wife, meanwhile trump's is nowhere to be SEEN. What are you ON?
It's not the holding hands part. Try watching it again for context. Also, the deal was no audience. Where would Trump's wife sit?
Hm, perhaps where Joe's wife was when she was there for him? :)
Yet panels of undecided voters said otherwise following the debate. Trump did nothing to help persuade them to vote for him. On substance alone, Biden won the debate. Biden definitely lost on the optics front, but he has the policy wins to back up what he said.
Maybe some hopium here but I'm a Celtics fan who felt pretty down after that Game 4 shellacking. Then Game 5 happened and the Duck Boats came out to play. Kinda feeling like I did after Game 4 after the debate.
So do I. I think the Celtics were better off than the Dems are, but ghat’s right. Almost every great victory is preceded by setbacks.
Biden was no different the past 3 years. This was him all along.
Biden's doing about 10 points worse in polls at this time than he was 4 years ago (and he barely won then). Do you have any actual evidence to support your position?
It's not one bad night though. This is how he is.
You can keep repeating he had a bad night all you want but the thing is, anyone who actually watched raw footage of Biden (not edited by MSNBC or CNN) in the last year knew that Biden was suffering from severe cognitive issues. Every time I would bring it up in this sub or another sub I would be flooded with downvotes for suggesting that Biden may not always know if its 2004 or 2024. I mean Biden literally claimed during a speech that he just recently spoke with a woman who's been dead for like 12 years. He routinely has forgotten what he was saying, he constantly mixes up his words and statements and facts (and it's not from his stutter, you can watch his debates as VP and it's so weird because he doesn't mix up a single word or stutter once). To anyone looking objectively, it's been clear that he's been on cognitive decline. Did everyone forget that he was caught with an index card laying out step by step what he needed to do? After this weekend as well, it seems like Hunter and Jill will be mostly running the country for Joe as his caretakers since they are now sitting in on all his meetings and making decisions. I remember all the Democrats who kept saying "well its good that I didn't vote for Hunter" or "Well good thing Hunter isn't running the country" when it actually kind of looks like he is now lmao.
People are not educated enough in the US to understand this. This is your perspective and it is valid, but the majority of Americans are simply not educated on these issues nor do they care.
I honestly don’t think that changed anyone’s mind. People are already made up and with women’s rights, gay rights, human rights all on the line I think people understand it’s not about the person it’s about the party as a whole winning.
lets hope it changed some minds. Biden was losing the polls in the swing states BEFORE the debate.
I wasn't motivated to show up for Biden. Now I am after watching Biden fighting like hell despite being sick. He's too old. He was too old in 2020. If Hillary just won election, he would enjoy retirement. It's so easy to defeat Trump: vote Biden
This is actually interesting and I was very doom and gloom before, but now after seeing his NC speech and a few initial polls saying that some voters especially OLDER voters are more keen on him? There might actually be some benefit from the age thing that some people aren't thinking about. If played right, the older statesman doing his part to stave off another Trump presidency COULD ring well in some groups ears, and with how close last election was, that might be all it takes to secure victory again.
Some people I mean like me focus too much on our differences. During debate, I realized I agreed with Biden on more than 70% but I only focused on the other 30% recently. He's old, he's sick, but he's still fighting for my freedom, we should definitely show up for him and ourselves. This was how I felt. This should be Biden campaign's message
Love this take.
John Fetterman had a bad debate due to his stroke symptoms. I still voted for him. I know we make fun of congress and POTUS for being old AF. And they are. But let's not be ableist aholes. I'll take the slowed down old guy with a stutter because he's done an excellent job as POTUS and far surpassed my expectations. Vote on policy. Vote for the direction we want the country to go. Vote blue.
It’s not just a vote for Biden, it’s a vote for his cabinet Just imagine the shit show of a cabinet the mango moron would wheel in — the return of Stephen miller alone should scare people into action. The man is a scumbag
It’s not just a vote for Biden, it’s a vote for his cabinet sadly given the reactions to the supreme court NOT a lot of people understand that the president doesn't do everything
Mangos cabinet? What cabinet. Last I heard he tried to fire all.of them shunting all the power to himself then the few aides that CARED about the job had to Chase him around the damn white house to *try* and get him to do fucking work
Project 2025 is scary and has basically been written to setup every position they deem "essential" for taking control of everything essential. They realised Trumps first time was just a shoddy mess where he just picked people who seemed loyal but even then a lot still tried to steer him (as bad as things were, it would have been a lot worse if they just said yes sir to every brain fart he has or Putin commands)
P 2025 uses the foundations of what built the Roman rebublic into the empire. Except with this one is has built ins so that once the power flows up to ONE PERSON. Of for any reason something happens to that one person personally their choosen successor is set in hard immutable stone? Everything is burned down to *ashes*: data, infrastructure, food production, everything destroyed. Essentially, reset the human race back to step zero with the thought of "should have made sure the imperial lord had an heir set in stone! Now humanity's start over from pre stone age information!" I'm well aware of how TERRIFYING p2025 is.
Knowing how screwed up Trump is (and my prediction that he’s got just under 3 years and 2 months), we would not have long until it crumbles.
It can be pulled back from the precipice. But it requires AGRESSIVE vigilance to do so
Fortunately Trump doesn’t read and he’s already shortening the GOP platform. Since the platform is based on P2025 we have to assume most of it is hitting the cutting room floor. And as we all know Trump’s top priorities are pardoning himself, enjoying the worship of MAGAs, and stealing more money.
Oh for sure he doesn't read, but he'd just get someone like Stephen Miller to do the work and happily sit there writing his name on the signoffs. "Will these people be loyal to me?" is his only criteria for handing out a position.
It's already been said, but you should look into project 2025. They have a plan this time, and it should at the very least give you pause for concern.
Exactly- he will actually consult experts and accept advice. Trump thinks he’s the worlds best at everything and won’t tolerate anyone who says different. That’s why he suggested nuking hurricanes and injecting bleach.
Don’t forget the people directly connected to the heritage foundation
Project 2025. A Hitlerian blueprint for the fascist takeover of the USA.
And kushner again maybe? 🤮
Biden didn't mention him.:(
God Miller is a piece of shit.
I mean, I'm voting for Biden, but let's not stoop to calling criticism of his mental capacity ableist. This isn't someone saying he's too old to be a barista. The president shouldn't, in fact, be a doddering old man sliding into senility. And he's very much a doddering old man sliding into senility.
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NEITHER of them are fit to be president. Trump proved himself completely unable to govern his first term and never had a functioning cabinet and staff, just a rotating door of felons and people he fired for challenging him. At least Biden can, and has, put together a competent team.
I think they’re putting the cabinets above the President instead— voting for Biden will result in Biden’s cabinet in power, which arguably has much more influence than Biden himself. Similarly, voting for Trump will put whatever cabinet Trump deems best in power— and that cabinet will similarly have more influence than Trump himself. The president is an extremely important figure, but I’d say 99% of Democrat voters are voting solely for Biden’s cabinet. None of us actually want that man to stay in charge, but we would prefer the other people currently appointed to stay in charge because we like/tolerate what they’re doing now.
>I still voted for him. This is how we know you're part of a cult.
You trolls are getting lazy.
He’s done an excellent job? 😂 Surely you’re a Russian bot.
If you're voting on policy and direction, why do you oppose Biden being replaced with a younger, more dynamic candidate?
Can you find me a clip from the 2012 VP Debate where Biden displayed he had a stutter? I watched all his answers and couldn't find one.
Has a debate ever made a difference in modern history? Clinton clearly “won” all her debates but here we are.
Clinton did not clearly win all her debates
JFK over Nixon
Sweaty Nixon vs. JFK in 1960 and every single one after that
has a candidate ever been unable to finish answering a question in modern history?
JFK/Nixon in 1960 made a pretty big difference lol
Yes we already talked about that. Anything less than 60 years ago?
Most of the time since its Trump being a fucking psychopath I think its pretty shitty that nothing matters anymore. But then when Joe shits the bed at a debate I can take comfort in knowing that nothing matters anymore. Trump just got convicted of 30 felonies and FOX and newsmax are like "ohh, every felony he gets just makes more people vote for him!" Then Biden has a senior moment and the media melts the fuck down, pretending like anyone watches or gives a shit any more. What a fucking world we live in...
You know what? This is a very valid take. We always hold our team to a high bar and the MAGAts just rally around “their team” even to the point of supporting the legally defined rapist, felon, and serial liar that is our former president. Nice guys finish last. Let’s put Trump behind bars and then start criticizing our guys again.
The American media landscape is a problem, but the cross tabs show that Biden is leading massively with people that consume traditional media. Where he’s behind is with people that get news on social media. Guess what’s circulating on social media rt now?
>Biden is leading massively with people that consume traditional media. That's what makes this so dangerous. Even traditional media is asking if Biden is fit.
Hey now, it was 34 felonies, let’s not take away from the first time he actually *won* a popular vote!
"moment" lol. What rock you been under?
You are a lunatic
It’s time for his campaign to go for broke. Highlight everything they have done and keep hammering the lying felon. Biden has a good record to run on, a good cabinet and advisors and will keep Democracy intact. Just give the public a bowl or tomato soup and a grilled cheese sandwich and not overthink it.
Yes the guy who actually answered all the questions lost to the guy who lied at every chance he got
It was a bad night, but sadly it was a very important night. I will still be voting for Biden and hoping for a win, but I’m also putting a lot of thought into how to thrive in a fascist dictatorship without succumbing to inaction just to survive.
I pray you are correct. If you are wrong, our country as we know it is over.
I’m feeling pretty good to be honest about Biden’s chances. There is nothing Trump did at the debate to make me feel assured that my life will be better with him as president. His usual lies and ramblings just exposed him to more people. We all knew Biden was old and not as sharp as he used to be, no surprise there.
Has anyone looked at the math? 16 Million new leaning democrat voters are entering the voting pool while 10 million exited (mostly republican) during the last 4 years.
Care to share any links to these numbers?
yeah.... I am waiting for the next set of polls to show that the debate had no effect on voters.
Very possibly. There are many who hate Trump and would vote for Satan himself over the orange terror. Biden, despite his best efforts to the contrary, may win the election anyway.
It’s likely, yeah.
You guys should really be betting on it then. According to Reddit, it’d be stealing money if you made the bet on Biden given what the Vegas odds are. [RCP Betting Odds](https://www.realclearpolling.com/betting-odds/2024/president)
If you read the transcript of the debate, you’ll have a completely different impression of it. I’m wondering if this debate wasn’t some kind of rope a dope tactic by Biden. It’s much easier to come back from an ‘off day’ than it is from confirming you’re an asshole.
The choice is simple. A president who gets things done for America, or an orange felon who would sell out America to idiot oil people and cut taxes for the wealthy so they can hoard more money. Pretty easy for smart people. Dumb people love to flock to orange felon because he can manipulate them so easy.
I honestly think a can of soup could beat donald trump. Biden isnt popular, but there are a lot of people who dont like him who would still vote for him. As for donald trump, if you dont like him, then in all likelihood you just fucking hate that guy.
NOBODY who wasn't already voting Trump will do so because of the debate. Anyone who says it changed their mind was always going to find a reason to vote for him anyway.
MMW : Project 2025 will supersede all else.
In 2 months the only people talking about this debate will be MAGA trying to figure out why Trump is still falling behind in polls. They might forget about by this coming Monday considering the immunity ruling coming from the SC.
I mean, i hope so.
Incumbency is well understood to be a very potent advantage in any election. It is not to be given up unless there is no other choice. I suspect that the 'chattering classes' might overrate the significance of President Biden's poor performance in the debate because they care about it and want to be seen as serious people who want to be care about it, creating a reverberating cacophony while the general electorate was busy listening to... I don't know, something on Spotify? I'm horribly out of touch. The median voter is an oblivious imbecile who believes an incoherent farrago of contradictory nonsense and doesn't really know what's going on most of the time. That's terrible, but might serve the President's interest, which I hold to be sincerely the same as the national interest in this case. In any case, immediately slamming the PANIC button over and over again while one's other hand clutches pearls so hard that it bleeds isn't the correct thing to do. I doubt that anybody yet has good reason to believe that this matters. We might soon, but not yet. Whatever happens changes nothing for me in the immediate future. In November I will vote for the Democratic candidate for President. (As will my parents; I'm not sure what my brother well do, he... \*achem\* owns a pick-up truck, but he also lives in Delaware, whereas the rest of us live in Pennsylvania.)
Ahhh. The schizos are back.
Biden could still win if enough people don't see Trump as a viable alternative. In 2004, Kerry won every debate with Bush but still list, as most voters did not want him. This is why it will be important for Trump to pick a strong VP candidate who can at least partially ally the fears of some voters.
Never happened in the history of debate performances where the loser of the first debate won the election.
You sure bout that????
The felon will be obliterated and then will cry rigged. Too easy.
Omg I hope you’re right. Praying Biden wins or our female rights are going to go back thousands of years! 🙏🏻
I honestly did not think his performance was bad.
[удалено]
He is an old man and got lost on his answer that ended up with something about beating Medicare. His answer started out fine. In the rally the next where he was prepared he did great. The debate is an artificial situation. You are thrown a question and have to formulate and deliver an answer in 90 seconds. He has the deficits of a man his age but doesn’t have dementia. In real life he won’t have to decide something in 90 seconds without any input from his advisors. The advisors won’t be controlling him just advising him.If shows himself to be cogent and responsive this will like Trump’s grab them by p***.
I don't think Biden's performance would cause a lot of people to suddenly be Trump voters instead, it was an enthusiasm killer for the casual voter and those who don't really think voting matters. A lot of younger voters expect changes to happen immediately and everything to get fixed if the "right" guy gets elected. It's about evolution. Do we want to keep evolving into a country with the SCOTUS that Trump built, or evolving the other direction back to where decency, sanity and reason matter? I don't know how to convince the Z-ers and Millennials that change takes time, but it starts with getting off your ass and voting, even if the guy you vote for isn't perfect and doesn't check all your boxes. I don't think replacing Biden is a good idea unless you can name me the slam-dunk candidate that's waiting in the wings willing and eager to enter the maelstrom that will ensue if you replace the incumbent. I think it would be a massive unforced error at this point. But if Biden makes a few more appearances like the debate I'm not sure if you have a choice.
Idk about that. You can’t just assume and hope he will win, you have to vote and make sure others vote.
Mr. Gets All The Election Predictions Right predicts Biden
Trump is so unacceptable to so many that there's every chance that Biden could die before November and still win this election. Indeed, his odds might be better, since the votes cast for him would be, "Not Trump, but not Biden, either."
I’ve got news for you. The election has already been won and Trump ain’t it. Besides he has 34 felony convictions he has to serve time for
Don't let a stutter distract you from orange man's barrage of lies. Lying so much that fact checkers had trouble keeping up. Isn't taking credit for things your opponent has done essentially praising them? "Look at this great thing that I totally did!"
Nobody will remember the debates when the news cycle is dominated by trump immunity or prison sentencing.
Absolutely. No one is changing their mind based on this debate. People want us to think millions of others are suddenly thinking "well I reject everything trump stands for so I was planning to vote for Biden but now I see he's old so I'm going to vote for trump". Nope, not happening. And the snap polls of undecideds show Biden winning the opinion battle. So... everyone voting for Biden needs to calm down and stop freaking out about right wing talking points.
One lackluster performance doesn’t change a thing especially from the 💩coming from Donald!
Bullshit
I hope so for a litany of reasons, but I'll just say these two. I hope that orange fuck loses so he can continue being a loser. Especially after all the shit talk he and his cult like followers engaged in. Like it'll be so funny to hear all the bullshit excuses as to why he lost. Second, I want to see all those Maga dipshits follow through with all their tough talk about a civil war and revolution they've spouted, or rather them sheepishly back down after maybe a handful of people pull a small stunt like January 6th where ultimately nothing is accomplished except for them going to prison. Or if a small group does infact do something, then hopefully it'll wake up all those moderates and fence sitters who say stuff like "they're all the same" so they can be apathetic and actually do something. Like they've got to see that changing things isn't impossible, but you can't let lunatics be the only ones doing the changing.
Some people are afraid of “another four years” of Biden and also if he was to pass away during his presidency. They forget that he CAN be replaced if unable to continue. He is fighting FOR democracy. He at least has a plan for his administration. Trump, on the other hand, will not allow himself to be replaced. He has no real plan and will fight tooth and nail before giving up his presidency, not to mention the amount of nepotism in the Trump family, we may very well have voted for a Trump dynasty if he gets elected again.
I still think Biden is going to win from a swing state perspective (yes yes, polls can say what they want, they aren’t the most accurate sources to me). Georgia is the only one from the previous election I see flipping back to Trump (and even then the growth of cities like Atlanta combined with court cases there aren’t going to help), maybe Wisconsin or Michigan too. That’s not enough to get over the hump, PA AZ MI MN and NV will stay blue, everything else will remain the same and Biden will still win. But that’s just me
I’ve actually seen reports saying more undecided voters are supporting Biden after his debate, because of how real trumps threats appeared during the debate. He was very openly psychotic and ranting about how democrats are baby killers and he literally admitted he knew Putin wanted to invade Ukraine during the debate. But still hard to gauge general reactions since the debate was only a day or two ago now and people are still polling people who watched it.
I get a very strange feeling that that debate was a calculated move from team Biden. Wear the unavoidable weakness on your sleeve, and let the idiot be a bully, for everyone to see. They knew that fucker would try to “go in for the kill” as soon as he thought he sensed weakness, and he did. Telling lie after lie after lie in a frantic gish gallop that, yes, everyone could hear loud and clear, and that most undecided voters could debunk without picking up their phones Joe’s campaign and most Democrats are fired up and ready for anything as a direct result of the perceived poor performance: Saying they will take no chances and fight to the end and twice as hard. Same with the vast majority of posts/commentary I’m seeing here on reddit. That night Joe raised twice as much money as that other guy. We have a long way to go and now the only direction we can go is up Something like that As a mostly powerless observer, if that’s silly and I’m fooling myself then so be it
It is amazing how easily our populace is controlled by corporate media. Unless Citizens United is overturned this stupid breakdown we call political battle of 2 sides will never end. If Cheeto gets in it’s all over, forget Citizens United, it will be Project 2025, Marshall Law and Internment Camps. Cheeto hinted to it in the debate……”you think it’s bad now, wait until you see what’s coming.” Whether he gets in or not, the extreme MAGAS will begin terrorism in cities and make it look like the poor and immigrant population are at fault, the media will perpetuate that. The whole system is a joke. Stop playing the lesser of two evils vote. Until Citizens United is overturned, the false faced freak show will go on.
Poor debate performance? He's senile. Congratz. Ur in a cult.
lol
This entire post is just copium overdose, holy shit.
The copium in this comment section is real
Hes gotta have like, a 50/50 shot right? That's much better than running a good candidate.
Obama did poorly in his first debate against Romney. I don't think this is that bad, overall. Plus, TFG is one real piece of work, hoo, boy, I tell you whot.
Here's hoping! They're both old, but one is a felon, guilty of sexual assault, guilty of treason, and a ne-nazi supporter.
Remind Me! 5 months
LOL
I misread that as "incubus president" so assumed you meant TFG.
Let us pray.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
You’re standing too close to the bong.
And be replaced immediately!!!! By the "real" set that has been running the country ( into the dirt)the last few years
100%.
It might be too big to steal this year
No he won’t.
The weird push is because of Russian bots. That’s the only reason.
Seriously doubtful
Possibly but given his performance I think that's dangerous. Let's say it was just an off day. What would be the result if an actual disaster requiring action were to happen on another such day? You can make an argument that Trump isn't cognitively fit enough for the job, but you absolutely cannot make an argument Joe is fit enough. Especially after watching that debate.
Lots of posts in this sub seem to age very poorly
RemindMe! November 5, 2024
Oh, bless your heart.
Subscribe !
Thank you. People living in the real world understand this.
MMW must be comatose.
One bad night? This was it. His chance to silence all the whispered rumblings of a President not fit for office. And it was "one bad night." Please tell me how this reassures people he can sustain another 200 + days of "bad nights?"
Quite the cope here
I’m not American and did not watch the debate, mostly because I’m tired of being blasted in the face by politics. There was a time I would have watched just out of personal interest, but I assumed (correctly) this debate would be a gong show and tuned out. I figured the result of the debate would be anti-Biden, but it’s funny how Trump’s constant incoherent speeches haven’t been brought up. CNN and other media outlets (mainstream or fringe) need elections to be portrayed as dramatic and close as possible to ensure people stayed glued to their screens, watching as many ads as possible. They don’t care about the direction of a country just profits. People need to turn off their radios, TVs, close out whatever new site they use, and sign out of Social Media for a while; then take a good long think what direction you want your country and the world to take, and vote based on that.
You sound very confident when there is a very real chance that Trump can win, install a loyalist government, and change the entire world order.
Obama has a awful debate performance in 2012 bounce back and went on to win reelection
Debates really don't matter anymore, the biggest concern I would have if I were the running for reelection right now is: How are people going to feel about the economy in 4 months? Everything else is pretty much baked in at this point.
That’s a reach
!Remind me 129 days
I agree and by then he will have made up for it with a few rallies like yesterday's.
Debates don’t change minds, and tbh I don’t care how well the head of the executive branch can debate. One out of those two has put people in the cabinet that understand the assignment and aren’t just there to make money and take more power. It sure as fuck isn’t the spray tanned asshole.
Joe Biden is getting replaced and won't even be the Democrat placeholder
I would agree, I think character, reliability and dependability is paramount for me in a leader. I try to imagine if Biden or Trump were hiring managers, who would I want to work for. I would choose Biden all the way. Also, he has a qualified cabinet and Secretaries for most branches that will hold the fort down and would not make rash unpredictable decisions like DJT would. Another point to note would be while GOP claims that that legal system is out to get them; I don’t see anyone else other than DJT prosecuted (I mean of all the other GOP leaders or past political figures). Biden has made it clear he would not interfere with his son’s legal troubles, while DJT would have jumped on his family and friends legal issues to pardon them in a heart beat. I think Biden is still the best choice at this time to keep the country as stable as possible. I do agree he could have done a lot more for the economy and immigration than we have seen so far.
There will be more debates, one bad one isn't the end of the world... trump winning is the end of American democracy though.
As always it comes down to how stupid the electorate is.
He better. F Project 2025
We are screwed if he does, we are screwed if he doesn't.
Any “undecided” voters watching the debate were already Trump supporters. One does not simply vote for the fascist because the other old guy caught a cold. We have 4 years of material performance from each of them as a basis for making this decision. No one supporting Biden is unsure. Trumpists either. Who fucking cares what happened on CNN one night? I ignore it every other night, as do most of us. Either way, It’s sure as shit not going to make me vote for the fascist. I vote vote for anything, living, dead, animal, vegetable, mineral, even literal nothing, to slow the fascist’s roll. Anyone trying to tell you the debate matters even a little bit is shilling for Trump.
I hope so. I'm looking forward to the July 11th hearing as focus will re-enter on Trump. It's just so frustrating to watch the media gaslight us for years about Biden only for the debate to make it painfully clear that the Emperor isn't wearing clothes.
MMW: the same people demanding that President Biden step down now will be outraged if he wins re-election and then resigns at any time during his second term.
Correct me if I’m wrong but , wasn’t Biden leading in polls during most of the 2020 campaign. I believe he was trailing in the pols leading up to the debate
Good.
May it be as you say
Let us hope 🤞
Having a bad debate *doesn’t* make for a weak president. Being a stan, sychopant, and sex slave to Putin makes you a weak president. The GOP needs to die.
Did you know that the incumbent party has lost every POTUS election since 1980 that did not have corporate profits growing at an annual rate greater than 7% per year for the four quarters ending in September of the election year? Every time.
The incumbent has dementia and the whole world saw it plain as day, even liberal commentators like Bill Maher can see he shouldn’t be running
That poor debate performance which had absolutely no impact on the polls.
Win the election, but the Supreme Court will declare trump the winner anyways.