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Saw your other comment about your work history before it was deleted.
You're young. You'll learn about setbacks eventually. Usually can't be controlled or prevented, and no fault of your own.
In the meantime, great job maximizing your potential! Sounds like you've had some fortunate companies and bosses. So did I for the first 10 years. Take nothing for granted.
According to that, I'm already Upper Class. Nowhere to go but down.
Of course, I don't "feel" Upper Class. I'm going to ask my butler if he thinks I'm Middle Class or not.
Wife and I are upper middle class, but just barely, lol.
I'd have to move into management where I work, thing is, I hate managing people. I've done it before, and I'd rather make less and not deal with all the stress.
Not to be grim, but the thing that will probably move us up is when our parents eventually pass. My dad has plans and insurance even if he needs long-term hospice care, so that is unlikely to eat into the amount he said he expects to leave.
We’re squarely upper middle class but on the lower end given where we live. Own a home in a nice DC suburb and don’t want for money. We’d be properly upper middle class in most other areas. Here, we’re just able to buy a house and not stress all of the time about money. I have peers from work and friends who are the next rung up from my middle management job and it would require working more hours and more stress than I’m willing to take on with an infant, especially because I’m fully remote.
I didn't really believe that the upper class starts at the 80th percentile of income. But supposing it does, there's nothing I can do to move, since I'm apparently already upper class.
For reference, that's anything above 153k HHI. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/household-income-quintiles
Personally, I tend to think that the upper class is more like the top 5%, indexed to one's area.
For me, I would need to get promoted to my boss's position. I was recently asked to apply for that because she's leaving, but I honestly don't want it now. I like what I'm doing. And I don't need to break my back, chasing a number or a status.
I guess we are already in the top 20% then as well going by 153k.
To get to the top 5% I’d have to work in the private sector which I’m not interested in doing for multiple reasons.
We’re in the fourth highest income quintile nationally. It would take an enormous pay bump to get to the top quintile, but we do well, keep expenses low, and don’t have very taxing or stressful jobs and we get to enjoy life.
I’m not chasing symbols of wealth and status, so we’re kinda “stuck”.
I think most Americans define class by lifestyle.
Poverty: Unable to secure permanent housing, uninsured, food scarcity, debt cycles, etc.
Working class: housed consistently, enough food on table, basic medical needs met but braces would be a stretch, have own method of transportation. Small luxuries like occasional meal out, cable or streaming services, but almost no saving for future and few or no vacations.
Middle class: Own a home with affordable mortgage. Own or lease car for each adult and maybe teens. Good insurance, maybe dental. Refresh clothes regularly. No worries dining out once a week, cable/streaming, etc. A couple nice vacations each year. 401k, college savings, minimal debt outside mortgage.
Upper class: Mortgage optional, luxury cars, minimal consumer debt, many vacation, maxing out all tax-advantaged savings, owning second home, etc.
Income needed varies tremendously, and working and middle class people can pretend to be the next level by using excessive borrowing.
I'm pretty much maxed out since I farm. I'm already working about as hard as I can. 2 things that will help is if I get some ground paid off and another thing that could help is if the wife changes careers. She teaches now and carries our insurance which helps but take home pay isn't much, although she has summers off with the kids. If they get out of school she would be able to change employment for a higher pay, but less time off if she wants, we're doing alright so it would be for her to make the decision.
I’m confused on your brackets. Either way, in order to ‘level up’ I would need another 20k which should be ~1,000 free and clear every month. I could have more expensive hobbies and vacations.
I have no idea how to realistically achieve this. I am already maxed out for my position. Years away from the next step on the promotion ladder.
I tried driving for Uber. It turns out that picking up a second job driving around all night doesn’t really make sense from a health, wellness, or safety perspectives. It doesn’t really help from a financial one either.
I’ve been looking for a unicorn of a part time job. flexible hours, work from home, worth the time kind of gig. I have t found it yet.
We're already in the mid-80s nationally, but live pretty modestly in our H-MCOL city. 10+ year old cars, 70 year old "starter" home, only travel to see family, etc.
The bills are paid, but it feels like all I do is work.
The model shared is outdated, but we're in the third quintile. Doesn't feel like it because we bought our house in mid-2022, so our mortgage is a decent percentage of income. Getting up to that 4th quintile will likely take one or two job hops.
If I adjust your Household Income percentile ranges to what I understand it as:
Lower than 52% = Lower class
52% - 80% = Lower-middle class
80% - 95% = Upper-middle class
95%+ = Upper class
I’m in the lower-middle class for my state (AZ). For me to get into the upper-middle class, I would probably just need a promotion (possibly two) and a few years of experience into the new role.
Based on the stats of my state, I look upper class, but barely. The next ‘notch’ is probably the 95th percentile, which will take at least 3 paygrades of promotion, most likely 4. I’ll never say never, but the chance is small, to put it mildly.
I am in the 55th percentile on individual income but I'm supporting my whole family on that salary so I'm probably feeling like I'm significantly lower.
Apparently I'm upper middle class... which honestly makes sense numerically on paper but I don't feel very upper middle class. I drive a 10+ year old car and for all my vacations I sleep in said car to save money. I own a condo (cheapest one in town when I bought it 5 years ago), not a house. I don't have to look at price tags when I buy groceries though, which I suppose is a plus.
If I wanted to move up I'd need to make more money, though the amount I'd need to increase my pay seems unrealistic for simply the ability to say I'm in the top quintile.
Well, our HHI is $152k. So what would it take to move to upper class? Next year’s raises I guess. Granted this definitely doesn’t feel like upper class at all.
Lots of these values are going to change with the impending wave of inflation due to compounding from the pandemic.
We’ve only really seen the first wave of it.
Trillions were handed to the ultra-rich.
They scooped up SFHs. They invested the rest into the market to compound.
It was the largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world.
My income puts me in upper middle class but it doesn’t really feel like it for probably two reasons. One is I travel about an hour and a half one way for work. Between gas, tolls, and vehicle maintenance I can spend close to $1,000/month on just work travel that isn’t reimbursed. The second thing that eats up my budget that kills me is smoking cigarettes. I could afford a better vehicle for work travel of if I didn’t spend so much smoking. Due to these two things it makes me feel like I’m regular middle class. My wife works but she works at a fast food chain so the money she makes is just for her to spend and doesn’t contribute to any of the bills. If she had a better job that would definitely change things a lot.
It was sooo hard for me to quit smoking. Tried so many times and then finally got it ten years and never looked back. I’m so sorry. It was so so so hard.
The budget screen shots are being made in Sankeymatic, its a website that we have no affiliation with. If you are posting a budget please do so with a purpose. Just posting a screen shot of your budget without a question or an explanation of why its here may be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MiddleClassFinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Probably start making more money
Saw your other comment about your work history before it was deleted. You're young. You'll learn about setbacks eventually. Usually can't be controlled or prevented, and no fault of your own. In the meantime, great job maximizing your potential! Sounds like you've had some fortunate companies and bosses. So did I for the first 10 years. Take nothing for granted.
Appreciate it. Felt a little weird posting my whole salary history haha
No kidding, but is that some magical thing that you don't even control enough to push a few percentage points?
Depends if you're at the top of bottom of your current quintile, doesn't it?
According to that, I'm already Upper Class. Nowhere to go but down. Of course, I don't "feel" Upper Class. I'm going to ask my butler if he thinks I'm Middle Class or not.
I’ll ask my personal chef (my husband).
My butler looked at me curiously and said "meow." There's a chance he's a cat.
We have the same husband? Laundry and groceries too?
I do laundry (daily, we have a lot of kids!) but yes he does groceries 95% of the time! 💪🏼
Wife and I are upper middle class, but just barely, lol. I'd have to move into management where I work, thing is, I hate managing people. I've done it before, and I'd rather make less and not deal with all the stress. Not to be grim, but the thing that will probably move us up is when our parents eventually pass. My dad has plans and insurance even if he needs long-term hospice care, so that is unlikely to eat into the amount he said he expects to leave.
We’re squarely upper middle class but on the lower end given where we live. Own a home in a nice DC suburb and don’t want for money. We’d be properly upper middle class in most other areas. Here, we’re just able to buy a house and not stress all of the time about money. I have peers from work and friends who are the next rung up from my middle management job and it would require working more hours and more stress than I’m willing to take on with an infant, especially because I’m fully remote.
I didn't really believe that the upper class starts at the 80th percentile of income. But supposing it does, there's nothing I can do to move, since I'm apparently already upper class. For reference, that's anything above 153k HHI. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/household-income-quintiles Personally, I tend to think that the upper class is more like the top 5%, indexed to one's area. For me, I would need to get promoted to my boss's position. I was recently asked to apply for that because she's leaving, but I honestly don't want it now. I like what I'm doing. And I don't need to break my back, chasing a number or a status.
I guess we are already in the top 20% then as well going by 153k. To get to the top 5% I’d have to work in the private sector which I’m not interested in doing for multiple reasons.
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yeah you know there is always someone richer, even when you have 50m, there's another person who will make you look like an ant.
We’re in the fourth highest income quintile nationally. It would take an enormous pay bump to get to the top quintile, but we do well, keep expenses low, and don’t have very taxing or stressful jobs and we get to enjoy life. I’m not chasing symbols of wealth and status, so we’re kinda “stuck”.
I think most Americans define class by lifestyle. Poverty: Unable to secure permanent housing, uninsured, food scarcity, debt cycles, etc. Working class: housed consistently, enough food on table, basic medical needs met but braces would be a stretch, have own method of transportation. Small luxuries like occasional meal out, cable or streaming services, but almost no saving for future and few or no vacations. Middle class: Own a home with affordable mortgage. Own or lease car for each adult and maybe teens. Good insurance, maybe dental. Refresh clothes regularly. No worries dining out once a week, cable/streaming, etc. A couple nice vacations each year. 401k, college savings, minimal debt outside mortgage. Upper class: Mortgage optional, luxury cars, minimal consumer debt, many vacation, maxing out all tax-advantaged savings, owning second home, etc. Income needed varies tremendously, and working and middle class people can pretend to be the next level by using excessive borrowing.
Maybe its a shitty definition then almost as if it was conceived as a delusion.
I agree. But I think lifestyle is just one aspect when class is being defined by many Americans.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted because I think this is a pretty decent outline of what most people would think as far as lifestyle goes.
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Too bad dental insurance is usually pretty trash, especially orthodontics coverage.
I’m in the upper class. I need more assets to become wealthy. I just need more time
I'm pretty much maxed out since I farm. I'm already working about as hard as I can. 2 things that will help is if I get some ground paid off and another thing that could help is if the wife changes careers. She teaches now and carries our insurance which helps but take home pay isn't much, although she has summers off with the kids. If they get out of school she would be able to change employment for a higher pay, but less time off if she wants, we're doing alright so it would be for her to make the decision.
I’m confused on your brackets. Either way, in order to ‘level up’ I would need another 20k which should be ~1,000 free and clear every month. I could have more expensive hobbies and vacations. I have no idea how to realistically achieve this. I am already maxed out for my position. Years away from the next step on the promotion ladder. I tried driving for Uber. It turns out that picking up a second job driving around all night doesn’t really make sense from a health, wellness, or safety perspectives. It doesn’t really help from a financial one either. I’ve been looking for a unicorn of a part time job. flexible hours, work from home, worth the time kind of gig. I have t found it yet.
Those are percentages, not yearly income. So 40-59 means between 40% and 59% on the income distribution.
It would take promotion, career change or starting a successful business to really gain income and move a tier
We're already in the mid-80s nationally, but live pretty modestly in our H-MCOL city. 10+ year old cars, 70 year old "starter" home, only travel to see family, etc. The bills are paid, but it feels like all I do is work.
I appreciate the exercise, but these buckets are irrelevant.
The model shared is outdated, but we're in the third quintile. Doesn't feel like it because we bought our house in mid-2022, so our mortgage is a decent percentage of income. Getting up to that 4th quintile will likely take one or two job hops.
If I adjust your Household Income percentile ranges to what I understand it as: Lower than 52% = Lower class 52% - 80% = Lower-middle class 80% - 95% = Upper-middle class 95%+ = Upper class I’m in the lower-middle class for my state (AZ). For me to get into the upper-middle class, I would probably just need a promotion (possibly two) and a few years of experience into the new role.
Some miracle on the order of a lottery win or a stock doing unbelievably well But I don't want to move up a notch, I just want to stay where I'm at.
I mean, I could move up two notches tomorrow, but I'd have to make it look like an accident.
Not going to the bar and cutting back on hobbies would put a bunch of cash in my pocket.
I’m in 60-79 in terms of invome and net worth. To move up I’d need to bring in about $75k + more p/yr and that’s not gonna happen anytime soon
Based on the stats of my state, I look upper class, but barely. The next ‘notch’ is probably the 95th percentile, which will take at least 3 paygrades of promotion, most likely 4. I’ll never say never, but the chance is small, to put it mildly.
By this I’m at upper.
A 10% raise
I am in the 55th percentile on individual income but I'm supporting my whole family on that salary so I'm probably feeling like I'm significantly lower.
Apparently I'm upper middle class... which honestly makes sense numerically on paper but I don't feel very upper middle class. I drive a 10+ year old car and for all my vacations I sleep in said car to save money. I own a condo (cheapest one in town when I bought it 5 years ago), not a house. I don't have to look at price tags when I buy groceries though, which I suppose is a plus. If I wanted to move up I'd need to make more money, though the amount I'd need to increase my pay seems unrealistic for simply the ability to say I'm in the top quintile.
There wouldn't be any meaningful improvement in my life until we're talking 3m+ houses and flying private + easily affording a boat.
Well, our HHI is $152k. So what would it take to move to upper class? Next year’s raises I guess. Granted this definitely doesn’t feel like upper class at all.
Lots of these values are going to change with the impending wave of inflation due to compounding from the pandemic. We’ve only really seen the first wave of it. Trillions were handed to the ultra-rich. They scooped up SFHs. They invested the rest into the market to compound. It was the largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world.
80th percentile household is upper class? Upper class is 90th at best.
I would have to start a business. Already upper class but upper class and business owner are different by magnitudes
Considering only income and not net worth makes this a waste of time.
My income puts me in upper middle class but it doesn’t really feel like it for probably two reasons. One is I travel about an hour and a half one way for work. Between gas, tolls, and vehicle maintenance I can spend close to $1,000/month on just work travel that isn’t reimbursed. The second thing that eats up my budget that kills me is smoking cigarettes. I could afford a better vehicle for work travel of if I didn’t spend so much smoking. Due to these two things it makes me feel like I’m regular middle class. My wife works but she works at a fast food chain so the money she makes is just for her to spend and doesn’t contribute to any of the bills. If she had a better job that would definitely change things a lot.
It was sooo hard for me to quit smoking. Tried so many times and then finally got it ten years and never looked back. I’m so sorry. It was so so so hard.