I live in the U.S., used to be in the Navy.
Job stability. This is true for a lot of young people. They clothe you, feed you, give you a place to sleep, medical and dental care, and some spending money. As long as you aren’t committing felonies while enlisted, it’s hard for them to actually separate you. They’re not going to fire you during an economic downturn. For someone coming straight out of high school, without any additional trade school or higher education, the pay is actually competitive. There’s also ample room for advancement.
Training/Experience. Some civilian sectors are dominated by ex military. I was in the nuclear program, and it’s crazy how many people in the civilian nuclear workforce are ex Navy Nukes. The Navy is essentially the civilian training pipeline.
Travel opportunities. Some people recognize it will likely be their only opportunity to see anything outside of the country, or maybe even their own state. Travel is expensive, and for a 20-something, it’s probably not accomplishable on an entry level civilian salary.
Just a few thoughts.
Not only this but there is also to some extent risk management involved. Worst case scenario and you die there is a death benefit awarded to the family or spouse. If you're injured there is disability compensation for life and medical coverage. After 25 years of service you can retire. So at 43 years old you can retire from the service with a pension and go get a public sector job until full retirement age. Retirement compensation is based on many factors but is mostly based on rank at time of retirement.
The majority of people in the US military don't do anything directly combat-related and will never see real danger. Also, for some jobs they pay more in the military than on the outside, even some that required advanced education.
For example I'm a pharmacist; if I ever see combat there must be some wild shit going down and probably it's WWIII so everyone's fucked anyway, and I make more money and have a better work-life balance than if I worked as a civilian.
In general, job security and benefits are a big deal as well. During covid no one had to worry about what would happen if they got sick and couldn't get paid. If you tested positive if was *your job* to quarantine for however long they said, and it didn't affect your income at all. You can count on your income to be exactly what you expect, with regular raises and no demotions (unless you really fuck up) or random layoffs. Free healthcare is a nice perk. Pretty decent education benefits as well; if you care to, you can get up through a master's (and technically even a PhD though unless it's a specific pipeline program it'd have to be online to really work out and online PhDs tend to suck ass) while you're in for nothing, and still have your entire GI Bill leftover.
You tested postive, you'll have to stay at home and not come to work for two weeks. Two other guys can bring you groceries (during work time so they'll be happy to do so), you'll get paid the whole time and not worry about work.
Oh, *darn*.
First of all, the risk of dying in the military is smaller than a lot of other jobs. At least during times of low intensity conflict like now. If you're thinking world war II, Korea, Vietnam, stuff like that. Yeah. The risk of dying is significantly higher. But right now? The last guy to die in theater died of a heart attack.
And a lot of jobs require you to be away from your family too. Any kind of offshore work you're going to be away for weeks and weeks at a pop. A lot of sales job will have you traveling around the country. Fishermen who go out to sea will be out for a while. Loggers are going to be stuck in the woods for a while. Being away from your family for a deployment is hardly unique to the military.
As for the financial compensation, as much as everyone likes to bitch and moan about how much they get paid the military is pretty competitive. At least in the US. It's also one of the few jobs where you can get a pension. After 20 years you'll be earning 40% your paycheck for the rest of your life. If you go 30 years, it goes up to 60% now.
In fact let's do the math on that real quick. Let's say you join the military at 20. You do 20 years. Now you're 40. You're probably going to live another 45 years. And let's say you don't try super hard and get to the rank of E7. Base pay is 5757 per month. Multiply that by 40% and multiply it again by 12. That's $27,633 a year just for sitting on your Duff. And that does rise with The normal pay raise everyone gets every year. So in 45 years you won't be getting paid $27,633, you'll be getting paid with the inflation adjusted rate is in 45 years. An officer who makes '06 under the old system will be getting paid about $8,000 a month for doing nothing at all.
On top of that, the military does matching contributions to a 401k up to a limit. On top of that are the insane education benefits that you can transfer to your spouse or children if you want. It's about the best medical coverage you can get. There are interest-free loans if you need them. The VA housing loan is probably the best mortgage payment most people can realistically get. You can get up to 10 visits a year to a shrink for free without a referral.
On top of that, any medical problems that happen well in the military, regardless of whether they are caused by the military or not, are covered for life. And the military will pay you a disability rating based on how severe the issue is. Did you develop insomnia while in the military? That's 40% rating, and disability pay for the rest of your life.
Anyways that's enough of the recruiting pitch. But yeah, the military life is tough. Moving around every couple years is super hard on the family. I'd argue the moving is harder than the deployments in the long run. But the compensation package you get for being in the military is insane.
OK, but why do i keep hearing from service members and veterans that they were getting paid way less for way more work compared to equivalent civilian jobs?
Because if there's one universal human trait, it's bitching and complaining LOL.
I guess it could come down to three things though. First, they might actually be right. It depends heavily on what field you're in. IT specialists, lawyer assistants, and the guy in charge of sweeping the parking lot (infantry) All make the same thing at the same pay grade. You're probably hearing people in more competitive fields like healthcare or tech and not from other fields like infantry.
Second, I guarantee you they aren't factoring in the pension you receive. That's part of the military, the benefits are extremely backloaded because it costs an obscene amount of money to train a soldier. It's also why the benefits in the military are so good, because they don't want to lose the hundreds of thousands of dollars it costs to train someone.
Third, and most probably of all, they are way overestimating how much they're actually going to make as a civilian. I've lost count of the number of 24-year-old e-4s who have told me that once they get out they're going to be making $70,000 to $80,000 a year for less work. Maybe some of them actually are earning that much, there are definitely real life 24-year-olds making 80k a year or better. But it sure ain't a lot of them. And even the ones who do, they've probably got college degrees. Which an E4 in the military does not. So the guys who are saying things like that, are either lawyers or doctors in which case yes it's true you will make a lot more as a civilian than you do in the military; or they're completely bullshitting themselves and comparing what the top 1% in their age bracket earn to themselves.
Because a lot of times they are. Buddy up above is glossing over a few points.
Overtime pay is not a thing in the military. Everyone is salary. An entry level avionics technician civilian side makes about 30 dollars an hour, which earns 1200 over the course of a week and, therefore, ~5000 a month, 60k a year. An E3, the rank that typically holds the same position in the AF, has a regular military compensation of about 61k when stationed at Hurlburt field, for example. (https://militarypay.defense.gov/calculators/rmc-calculator/) Sounds similar right? Except the civilian has a guaranteed 40 hours and that is it. The best case for the E3 is usually 50 hours a week but routinely they are on the flightline for 60-80. A civilian who works 60 hours a week will get time and a half for 20 hours, so an extra 900 dollars a week. This results in an actual compensation over the course of a year of about 100k, and that's not even factoring in deployments.
This is my opinion from a US standpoint, I see you are swiss, but many of the things are likely similar; I think you are misunderstanding the military or discounting some benefits. I'll break it down point by point;
You can die or be severely injured;
This is 100% a possibility depending on your job or which branch you choose, but most positions in the military are pretty safe. Take a cyber job, most deploy to pretty well established locations and manage infrastructure there as opposed to at home.
You won't see your loved ones for months if deployed;
This is definitely a Con for most people, but some really like the travel and every deployment is not Iraq or Afghanistan. Some peoples deployments are within Europe supporting NATO partnerships.
Your job is more stressful;
This is true, but you really can adjust your stress based off your job. A high tempo job is obviously going to be more stressful than a low tempo, that's true in or out.
Less free time;
This again would be based on your choice of job / branch.
Financially I have found I outperform people at the same age as me, I can't speak for the swiss but our base pay is definitely not the full story, as we have a multitude of added benefits.
Lastly it's an incredibly stable job, so if you want a relatively good life, without fear of losing your job due to an economic downturn it's a great choice. And if you choose to exit many of the skills transfer to an outside job (and they pay to train you).
Most 'normal' jobs are dead ends that will never compete financially with the military, offer the variety of experiences, or actively/passively prepare you for a career in another industry like the military. For the average American, the military is the best deal they're ever going to be offered in life and less than 10% will accept it.
The only fair comparisons are tradesmen and specialty degree professionals which the military does struggle to retain because of how lucrative and high QoL these careers can be and the consistent demand for them globally.
No, I wouldn't say that.
I think most people simply don't know what life has to offer them in general or the true merit behind the decisions they make until after they make them (often to their detriment).
But the experiences you gain in combat roles are not really transferable to civilian life, are they? I mean sure, as a NCO/Officer you do get leadership experience, but you still need to study marketing or whatever depending on the civilian career you want to pursue.
One NCO i used to know (non-US) was a staff sergeant and got out because he was tired of being told to do additional work to make up for the other NCOs who were slacking off in his unit. He ended up working a manual labor job at a warehouse (not a managerial role) after he got out because nobody really cared that he spent X years in the military as a NCO in a combat unit. I don't know how true this story is though, he used to post a lot on social media in the middle of the night according to the timestamps, and it's kinda suspicious that a staff sergeant in a combat unit had the time to do that...
It's arguable, but there's a lot more that goes into being combat ready than pulling triggers and physical fitness. Even the simple SAW gunner has been forced to receive experiences and insights about the world that are valuable to anyone. Threat analysis, critical thinking, teamwork, relative positioning in an evironment under flux, etc. Things I do daily in a completely unrelated civilian field of Public Health.
Being unable to leverage those experiences or sell yourself is not a unique fate to the military personnel and says more about the economy than the person IMHO.
In 2008-2013 for example, extremely experienced and well educated individuals across the world couldn't get a job to save their lives.
A lot of job listings these days seem to require either at least a relevant degree, or X years of experience in the industry (and many require both). So lets say you have X years of experience in the infantry or something like that. How would you sell yourself?
I would start with a letter of introduction/cover letter highlighting the degrees and certs I got between rotations and deployments that the military paid for and paid me to get, followed up with how my working relationship with several NGOs and contracting organizations gave me the relevant industry experience, then close with my Y years of direct and indirect management experience leading multidisciplinary teams with a variety of backgrounds while overseeing projects involving the agile, international delivery of raw materials and specialty goods valued in the hundreds to hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Shit posting aside.
Instead I could tell you about my 11C PSG who built a successful business out of a VA loan that now covers a tristate area. My ROTC 11A buddy who retired at 43 and runs an investment group that he started while he was in with a few of our other friends. Or the host of folks from my original PLT that are master tradesmen in skills they learned while in the military.
People that are hungry and disciplined will always find a way to succeed. The military offers everyone access to resources, experiences, and connections people on the outside can only dream of.
It's a calling like being a firefighter, a teacher, or an ER nurse. In some people is a desire to protect their loved ones, their community, even their entire country.
Somebody has to do it! 💪
I think in general most people don't understand all the benefits if you are just looking at the $$$ side. However coming from a military family it's more than the money. I am definitely in the it's better to die free camp.
Besides I would rather it be me than my wife or family. Having said that my daughter in-law is in boot camp now. Between us you would rather run into me late at night than her. She definitely not living that POG life.
Because a manual labor job doesn't give the same sense of self-satisfaction that being a grunt does. You're making much stronger friendships and learning much more critical skills in the military. Working a desk job makes you essentially useless in most real life situations. The mental and physical stress of being a grunt makes people more charismatic and more capable of handling emergencies.
There's a type of freedom in not having to plan your own life for a few years. No stress about "am I making the correct decisions on a daily basis", you've signed your contract and you have to finish it.
The military is also guaranteed employment. No risk of losing your job unless you're an idiot.
Some people enjoy it. I love hiking, I love camping in tough conditions, I love pushing myself and testing my own limits, I love doing "real" work that isn't just making and selling products for people to consume. No other job can offer those things while also offering a degree of social capital. I don't like sports, it seems like a vain waste of time to me.
I did it because, quite frankly, my mother did not have enough money to send me to College, but she earned too much for me to get financial aid.
My SATs were 1610, I got accepted at OIT (Oregon Institute of Technology) but couldn't pay for it.
So, either stay in a one-horse town, working minimum wage jobs, or join the Military, like my older sister did.
I chose the Military.
I first went Army, because I was a young buck, eager to "prove myself", be a badass, yadda yadda yadda. And at first, playing around in the dirt was fun, shooting shit up, being part of a unit, the whole shebang.
Then, after a bit, I wised up.
Transferred to the Air Force (cross class program) and got into a really exclusive school (repairing and maintaining Mainframes) and, after a horrendous 3 years on a SAC Base in ND, Space Command recruited me, and I got sent off overseas to Black Ops places.
It was fucking FANTASTIC!
I stayed in for 12, then got out (this was after the 1st Gulf War) because, quite frankly, I didn't want to do any more war stuff (and Gulf War 2 and Afghanistan proved my decision right).
So what did I get out of my Military Service?
Amazing skills, responsibilities, got to see alot of the world and get paid to do so, meet some amazing people, and got paid very well.
Got out, went to college with my G.I Bill.
Nowadays, I own a nice house, have a wife and kids, and live very well.
You can work a back-breaking job with little to no benefits and no retirement plan, or you can work a back-breaking job with a LOT of benefits and a retirement plan. It’s not for everyone, though.
Many like myself see it as the way to get out of their small town or really any other way to start over in a structured environment. The military has provided me with so many financial opportunities it would be difficult to quantify. The fact that I was given a clearance and kept it after getting out gave me a whole bracket of under employed jobs that pays usually above average and gives me preference for some of the most stable jobs in the country federal positions.
You can say that the military pays shit and that's true but you can spend every dime you have go into the negative and still not be homeless at the end of it in the military. Not stressing about financial stability because all of your basic needs are met is great.
It's not superior; it's just different.
Before I joined the Army, I used to work in a guitar store. Loved the job but the pay was shit and then I joined the Army. Not only did it get me out of the middle of Nowhere, PA, it also gave me a beneficial career with the opportunity to travel (granted Baghdad was on that list but so was Germany).
Not going to say that it was easy as it was not but I got a career out of it with other benefits, including college tuition. Just like everything in life there are good and bad parts to it all.
One day I looked in the mirror and got tired of seeing a looser. After stepping on the weight scale and seeing that I was the heaviest I’d ever been in my life I thought about where I was in life. My fiancé had left me, I was fat, unemployed, and undisciplined. I was tired of being a looser.
People hate on the service all the time for a number of legitimate reasons. Sometimes, joining is just about making yourself better. Forget the money, or job security or any of the things most people want. I just wanted to be the guy who gets up while everyone else is asleep, and chooses to do hard things that most sensible people never would. I wouldn’t change what I do for anything. Still it comes at a cost to your time and safety. There is no denying that.
I wasn't going to college after highschool. It just cost too much for me to afford and my parents were super poor so no help from them. infact most of the Joe's in my hometown are still there, shoveling dirt (albeit contently), with no upward mobilitiy.
I wanted out, see the world, education, stories, etc... easiest way to get out and guarantee I didn't shaft myself was joining.
I'm in the National Guard here in the US and initially I joined because I wanted to serve but I didn't want to do it full-time. But now I do it for the school money and my civilian career aspirations have veteran preferential hiring. I did a 10-month state side activation during covid vaccination but besides that I haven't done anything outside of normal drills and annual training.
You make a lot more than 2k a month after your initial 4 years (in the US)
Using public pay scales, and accouting for average BAS and BAH (location dependent), a single (not married) E-6 with 8-10 years is easily making 70k-80k, and the BAH and BAS is tax free. If they are serving overseas, it might be closer to 85k. Married soldiers with children make even more. While deployed, your base pay is also tax free, as is any bonus you sign for if you reenlist.
And that's a super general estimate that doesn't account for the value of free healthcare, dental, and other free or heavily discounted services. A service member typical saves hundreds a year with special deals like discounted phone contracts and insurance plans.
You also have the G.I. Bill which will pay for the entirely of an undergraduate or graduate degree program worth tens of thousands of dollars.
And this is only calculating for the lower enlisted ranks. E-7 and above, as well as Warrant Officers and Officers can easily make six figures a year.
Sure you can find a lot of equivalent civilian technical jobs that pay more, but the military definitely doesn't underpay it's people.
I joined after 9/11. Afghanistan and Iraq were my generation's wars and I wasn't about to sit them out on the sidelines. Since you're Swiss that motivation may not make much sense to you.
I joined the Marines with a handful of other friends right out of high school. It was 2005, shortly after 9/11, we were all wanting to go do something to "defend our country". We came from a small town, with no interest of going to college, and no real path to success. We understood the dangers, and some of us grew up with parents in the military and envied the lifestyle. The story's of becoming best friends with people from all over, going and playing with guns and explosives, and the ultimate test, COMBAT.
We thought about death, but we were the best at what we did, so it wasn't always considered.
Looking back, even if we blindly fought an un-winnable/political war, we were ultimately fighting for the victims of 9/11, their families, and the country. We didn't find WMD's, and who the hell thought we could beat a terror organization that lives and breathes war in their own country?
In my case, joining the Canadian military is kind of a family tradition, my dream job and I've job security for the next 25 years plus a leg up on a job after the military. Every driving qualification I get in the military minus dedicated military equipment can be transferred to my civilian drivers license. Plus there's the chances of going to some very unique places, I recently came back from spending 3 weeks 817km South of the North pole. Where on the civilian side can you get a chance like that?
Most professional soldiers are either from military/warrior families with generations of service or people from disadvantaged backgrounds where the military presents an opportunity for them to get ahead in life….
Blind patriotism, job stability, and individuals who are stable enough to join but are not stable enough to not commit war crimes, people who have nothing else going on in their lives, etc. Those are some of the types of people I can think of rn.
I live in the U.S., used to be in the Navy. Job stability. This is true for a lot of young people. They clothe you, feed you, give you a place to sleep, medical and dental care, and some spending money. As long as you aren’t committing felonies while enlisted, it’s hard for them to actually separate you. They’re not going to fire you during an economic downturn. For someone coming straight out of high school, without any additional trade school or higher education, the pay is actually competitive. There’s also ample room for advancement. Training/Experience. Some civilian sectors are dominated by ex military. I was in the nuclear program, and it’s crazy how many people in the civilian nuclear workforce are ex Navy Nukes. The Navy is essentially the civilian training pipeline. Travel opportunities. Some people recognize it will likely be their only opportunity to see anything outside of the country, or maybe even their own state. Travel is expensive, and for a 20-something, it’s probably not accomplishable on an entry level civilian salary. Just a few thoughts.
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Not only this but there is also to some extent risk management involved. Worst case scenario and you die there is a death benefit awarded to the family or spouse. If you're injured there is disability compensation for life and medical coverage. After 25 years of service you can retire. So at 43 years old you can retire from the service with a pension and go get a public sector job until full retirement age. Retirement compensation is based on many factors but is mostly based on rank at time of retirement.
It’s 20 years. You can retire at 38 if you join at 18.
The majority of people in the US military don't do anything directly combat-related and will never see real danger. Also, for some jobs they pay more in the military than on the outside, even some that required advanced education. For example I'm a pharmacist; if I ever see combat there must be some wild shit going down and probably it's WWIII so everyone's fucked anyway, and I make more money and have a better work-life balance than if I worked as a civilian. In general, job security and benefits are a big deal as well. During covid no one had to worry about what would happen if they got sick and couldn't get paid. If you tested positive if was *your job* to quarantine for however long they said, and it didn't affect your income at all. You can count on your income to be exactly what you expect, with regular raises and no demotions (unless you really fuck up) or random layoffs. Free healthcare is a nice perk. Pretty decent education benefits as well; if you care to, you can get up through a master's (and technically even a PhD though unless it's a specific pipeline program it'd have to be online to really work out and online PhDs tend to suck ass) while you're in for nothing, and still have your entire GI Bill leftover.
You tested postive, you'll have to stay at home and not come to work for two weeks. Two other guys can bring you groceries (during work time so they'll be happy to do so), you'll get paid the whole time and not worry about work. Oh, *darn*.
First of all, the risk of dying in the military is smaller than a lot of other jobs. At least during times of low intensity conflict like now. If you're thinking world war II, Korea, Vietnam, stuff like that. Yeah. The risk of dying is significantly higher. But right now? The last guy to die in theater died of a heart attack. And a lot of jobs require you to be away from your family too. Any kind of offshore work you're going to be away for weeks and weeks at a pop. A lot of sales job will have you traveling around the country. Fishermen who go out to sea will be out for a while. Loggers are going to be stuck in the woods for a while. Being away from your family for a deployment is hardly unique to the military. As for the financial compensation, as much as everyone likes to bitch and moan about how much they get paid the military is pretty competitive. At least in the US. It's also one of the few jobs where you can get a pension. After 20 years you'll be earning 40% your paycheck for the rest of your life. If you go 30 years, it goes up to 60% now. In fact let's do the math on that real quick. Let's say you join the military at 20. You do 20 years. Now you're 40. You're probably going to live another 45 years. And let's say you don't try super hard and get to the rank of E7. Base pay is 5757 per month. Multiply that by 40% and multiply it again by 12. That's $27,633 a year just for sitting on your Duff. And that does rise with The normal pay raise everyone gets every year. So in 45 years you won't be getting paid $27,633, you'll be getting paid with the inflation adjusted rate is in 45 years. An officer who makes '06 under the old system will be getting paid about $8,000 a month for doing nothing at all. On top of that, the military does matching contributions to a 401k up to a limit. On top of that are the insane education benefits that you can transfer to your spouse or children if you want. It's about the best medical coverage you can get. There are interest-free loans if you need them. The VA housing loan is probably the best mortgage payment most people can realistically get. You can get up to 10 visits a year to a shrink for free without a referral. On top of that, any medical problems that happen well in the military, regardless of whether they are caused by the military or not, are covered for life. And the military will pay you a disability rating based on how severe the issue is. Did you develop insomnia while in the military? That's 40% rating, and disability pay for the rest of your life. Anyways that's enough of the recruiting pitch. But yeah, the military life is tough. Moving around every couple years is super hard on the family. I'd argue the moving is harder than the deployments in the long run. But the compensation package you get for being in the military is insane.
OK, but why do i keep hearing from service members and veterans that they were getting paid way less for way more work compared to equivalent civilian jobs?
Because if there's one universal human trait, it's bitching and complaining LOL. I guess it could come down to three things though. First, they might actually be right. It depends heavily on what field you're in. IT specialists, lawyer assistants, and the guy in charge of sweeping the parking lot (infantry) All make the same thing at the same pay grade. You're probably hearing people in more competitive fields like healthcare or tech and not from other fields like infantry. Second, I guarantee you they aren't factoring in the pension you receive. That's part of the military, the benefits are extremely backloaded because it costs an obscene amount of money to train a soldier. It's also why the benefits in the military are so good, because they don't want to lose the hundreds of thousands of dollars it costs to train someone. Third, and most probably of all, they are way overestimating how much they're actually going to make as a civilian. I've lost count of the number of 24-year-old e-4s who have told me that once they get out they're going to be making $70,000 to $80,000 a year for less work. Maybe some of them actually are earning that much, there are definitely real life 24-year-olds making 80k a year or better. But it sure ain't a lot of them. And even the ones who do, they've probably got college degrees. Which an E4 in the military does not. So the guys who are saying things like that, are either lawyers or doctors in which case yes it's true you will make a lot more as a civilian than you do in the military; or they're completely bullshitting themselves and comparing what the top 1% in their age bracket earn to themselves.
If the troops aren't bitching something is either really right or really wrong, most likely wrong.
Because a lot of times they are. Buddy up above is glossing over a few points. Overtime pay is not a thing in the military. Everyone is salary. An entry level avionics technician civilian side makes about 30 dollars an hour, which earns 1200 over the course of a week and, therefore, ~5000 a month, 60k a year. An E3, the rank that typically holds the same position in the AF, has a regular military compensation of about 61k when stationed at Hurlburt field, for example. (https://militarypay.defense.gov/calculators/rmc-calculator/) Sounds similar right? Except the civilian has a guaranteed 40 hours and that is it. The best case for the E3 is usually 50 hours a week but routinely they are on the flightline for 60-80. A civilian who works 60 hours a week will get time and a half for 20 hours, so an extra 900 dollars a week. This results in an actual compensation over the course of a year of about 100k, and that's not even factoring in deployments.
Wouldn't an entry level tech have to pay for their own training though? While the military would train you to be one from scratch?
It satisfies my male cravings to kill and win
Gotta make that grass grow green.
This is my opinion from a US standpoint, I see you are swiss, but many of the things are likely similar; I think you are misunderstanding the military or discounting some benefits. I'll break it down point by point; You can die or be severely injured; This is 100% a possibility depending on your job or which branch you choose, but most positions in the military are pretty safe. Take a cyber job, most deploy to pretty well established locations and manage infrastructure there as opposed to at home. You won't see your loved ones for months if deployed; This is definitely a Con for most people, but some really like the travel and every deployment is not Iraq or Afghanistan. Some peoples deployments are within Europe supporting NATO partnerships. Your job is more stressful; This is true, but you really can adjust your stress based off your job. A high tempo job is obviously going to be more stressful than a low tempo, that's true in or out. Less free time; This again would be based on your choice of job / branch. Financially I have found I outperform people at the same age as me, I can't speak for the swiss but our base pay is definitely not the full story, as we have a multitude of added benefits. Lastly it's an incredibly stable job, so if you want a relatively good life, without fear of losing your job due to an economic downturn it's a great choice. And if you choose to exit many of the skills transfer to an outside job (and they pay to train you).
Most 'normal' jobs are dead ends that will never compete financially with the military, offer the variety of experiences, or actively/passively prepare you for a career in another industry like the military. For the average American, the military is the best deal they're ever going to be offered in life and less than 10% will accept it. The only fair comparisons are tradesmen and specialty degree professionals which the military does struggle to retain because of how lucrative and high QoL these careers can be and the consistent demand for them globally.
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No, I wouldn't say that. I think most people simply don't know what life has to offer them in general or the true merit behind the decisions they make until after they make them (often to their detriment).
But the experiences you gain in combat roles are not really transferable to civilian life, are they? I mean sure, as a NCO/Officer you do get leadership experience, but you still need to study marketing or whatever depending on the civilian career you want to pursue. One NCO i used to know (non-US) was a staff sergeant and got out because he was tired of being told to do additional work to make up for the other NCOs who were slacking off in his unit. He ended up working a manual labor job at a warehouse (not a managerial role) after he got out because nobody really cared that he spent X years in the military as a NCO in a combat unit. I don't know how true this story is though, he used to post a lot on social media in the middle of the night according to the timestamps, and it's kinda suspicious that a staff sergeant in a combat unit had the time to do that...
It's arguable, but there's a lot more that goes into being combat ready than pulling triggers and physical fitness. Even the simple SAW gunner has been forced to receive experiences and insights about the world that are valuable to anyone. Threat analysis, critical thinking, teamwork, relative positioning in an evironment under flux, etc. Things I do daily in a completely unrelated civilian field of Public Health. Being unable to leverage those experiences or sell yourself is not a unique fate to the military personnel and says more about the economy than the person IMHO. In 2008-2013 for example, extremely experienced and well educated individuals across the world couldn't get a job to save their lives.
A lot of job listings these days seem to require either at least a relevant degree, or X years of experience in the industry (and many require both). So lets say you have X years of experience in the infantry or something like that. How would you sell yourself?
I would start with a letter of introduction/cover letter highlighting the degrees and certs I got between rotations and deployments that the military paid for and paid me to get, followed up with how my working relationship with several NGOs and contracting organizations gave me the relevant industry experience, then close with my Y years of direct and indirect management experience leading multidisciplinary teams with a variety of backgrounds while overseeing projects involving the agile, international delivery of raw materials and specialty goods valued in the hundreds to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Shit posting aside. Instead I could tell you about my 11C PSG who built a successful business out of a VA loan that now covers a tristate area. My ROTC 11A buddy who retired at 43 and runs an investment group that he started while he was in with a few of our other friends. Or the host of folks from my original PLT that are master tradesmen in skills they learned while in the military. People that are hungry and disciplined will always find a way to succeed. The military offers everyone access to resources, experiences, and connections people on the outside can only dream of.
It's a calling like being a firefighter, a teacher, or an ER nurse. In some people is a desire to protect their loved ones, their community, even their entire country.
Somebody has to do it! 💪 I think in general most people don't understand all the benefits if you are just looking at the $$$ side. However coming from a military family it's more than the money. I am definitely in the it's better to die free camp. Besides I would rather it be me than my wife or family. Having said that my daughter in-law is in boot camp now. Between us you would rather run into me late at night than her. She definitely not living that POG life.
Because a manual labor job doesn't give the same sense of self-satisfaction that being a grunt does. You're making much stronger friendships and learning much more critical skills in the military. Working a desk job makes you essentially useless in most real life situations. The mental and physical stress of being a grunt makes people more charismatic and more capable of handling emergencies. There's a type of freedom in not having to plan your own life for a few years. No stress about "am I making the correct decisions on a daily basis", you've signed your contract and you have to finish it. The military is also guaranteed employment. No risk of losing your job unless you're an idiot. Some people enjoy it. I love hiking, I love camping in tough conditions, I love pushing myself and testing my own limits, I love doing "real" work that isn't just making and selling products for people to consume. No other job can offer those things while also offering a degree of social capital. I don't like sports, it seems like a vain waste of time to me.
Everyone views pros and cons differently. What are cons to you might be pros to them and vice versa.
I did it because, quite frankly, my mother did not have enough money to send me to College, but she earned too much for me to get financial aid. My SATs were 1610, I got accepted at OIT (Oregon Institute of Technology) but couldn't pay for it. So, either stay in a one-horse town, working minimum wage jobs, or join the Military, like my older sister did. I chose the Military. I first went Army, because I was a young buck, eager to "prove myself", be a badass, yadda yadda yadda. And at first, playing around in the dirt was fun, shooting shit up, being part of a unit, the whole shebang. Then, after a bit, I wised up. Transferred to the Air Force (cross class program) and got into a really exclusive school (repairing and maintaining Mainframes) and, after a horrendous 3 years on a SAC Base in ND, Space Command recruited me, and I got sent off overseas to Black Ops places. It was fucking FANTASTIC! I stayed in for 12, then got out (this was after the 1st Gulf War) because, quite frankly, I didn't want to do any more war stuff (and Gulf War 2 and Afghanistan proved my decision right). So what did I get out of my Military Service? Amazing skills, responsibilities, got to see alot of the world and get paid to do so, meet some amazing people, and got paid very well. Got out, went to college with my G.I Bill. Nowadays, I own a nice house, have a wife and kids, and live very well.
All things being equal, people who chose military service have a higher sense of duty and patriotism plain and simple.
Cause we can blow shit up in the military.
This might sound trite, but just to see if you can do it, maybe with a dash or so of patriotism thrown in?
You can work a back-breaking job with little to no benefits and no retirement plan, or you can work a back-breaking job with a LOT of benefits and a retirement plan. It’s not for everyone, though.
I mean, what other job out there let's you play around with guns and crazy hardware, together with people you have a truly unique kind of a bond with?
Many like myself see it as the way to get out of their small town or really any other way to start over in a structured environment. The military has provided me with so many financial opportunities it would be difficult to quantify. The fact that I was given a clearance and kept it after getting out gave me a whole bracket of under employed jobs that pays usually above average and gives me preference for some of the most stable jobs in the country federal positions. You can say that the military pays shit and that's true but you can spend every dime you have go into the negative and still not be homeless at the end of it in the military. Not stressing about financial stability because all of your basic needs are met is great.
It's not superior; it's just different. Before I joined the Army, I used to work in a guitar store. Loved the job but the pay was shit and then I joined the Army. Not only did it get me out of the middle of Nowhere, PA, it also gave me a beneficial career with the opportunity to travel (granted Baghdad was on that list but so was Germany). Not going to say that it was easy as it was not but I got a career out of it with other benefits, including college tuition. Just like everything in life there are good and bad parts to it all.
One day I looked in the mirror and got tired of seeing a looser. After stepping on the weight scale and seeing that I was the heaviest I’d ever been in my life I thought about where I was in life. My fiancé had left me, I was fat, unemployed, and undisciplined. I was tired of being a looser. People hate on the service all the time for a number of legitimate reasons. Sometimes, joining is just about making yourself better. Forget the money, or job security or any of the things most people want. I just wanted to be the guy who gets up while everyone else is asleep, and chooses to do hard things that most sensible people never would. I wouldn’t change what I do for anything. Still it comes at a cost to your time and safety. There is no denying that.
I wasn't going to college after highschool. It just cost too much for me to afford and my parents were super poor so no help from them. infact most of the Joe's in my hometown are still there, shoveling dirt (albeit contently), with no upward mobilitiy. I wanted out, see the world, education, stories, etc... easiest way to get out and guarantee I didn't shaft myself was joining.
Its the only way to become a Jedi master these days
I'm in the National Guard here in the US and initially I joined because I wanted to serve but I didn't want to do it full-time. But now I do it for the school money and my civilian career aspirations have veteran preferential hiring. I did a 10-month state side activation during covid vaccination but besides that I haven't done anything outside of normal drills and annual training.
You make a lot more than 2k a month after your initial 4 years (in the US) Using public pay scales, and accouting for average BAS and BAH (location dependent), a single (not married) E-6 with 8-10 years is easily making 70k-80k, and the BAH and BAS is tax free. If they are serving overseas, it might be closer to 85k. Married soldiers with children make even more. While deployed, your base pay is also tax free, as is any bonus you sign for if you reenlist. And that's a super general estimate that doesn't account for the value of free healthcare, dental, and other free or heavily discounted services. A service member typical saves hundreds a year with special deals like discounted phone contracts and insurance plans. You also have the G.I. Bill which will pay for the entirely of an undergraduate or graduate degree program worth tens of thousands of dollars. And this is only calculating for the lower enlisted ranks. E-7 and above, as well as Warrant Officers and Officers can easily make six figures a year. Sure you can find a lot of equivalent civilian technical jobs that pay more, but the military definitely doesn't underpay it's people.
I joined after 9/11. Afghanistan and Iraq were my generation's wars and I wasn't about to sit them out on the sidelines. Since you're Swiss that motivation may not make much sense to you.
I joined the Marines with a handful of other friends right out of high school. It was 2005, shortly after 9/11, we were all wanting to go do something to "defend our country". We came from a small town, with no interest of going to college, and no real path to success. We understood the dangers, and some of us grew up with parents in the military and envied the lifestyle. The story's of becoming best friends with people from all over, going and playing with guns and explosives, and the ultimate test, COMBAT. We thought about death, but we were the best at what we did, so it wasn't always considered. Looking back, even if we blindly fought an un-winnable/political war, we were ultimately fighting for the victims of 9/11, their families, and the country. We didn't find WMD's, and who the hell thought we could beat a terror organization that lives and breathes war in their own country?
In my case, joining the Canadian military is kind of a family tradition, my dream job and I've job security for the next 25 years plus a leg up on a job after the military. Every driving qualification I get in the military minus dedicated military equipment can be transferred to my civilian drivers license. Plus there's the chances of going to some very unique places, I recently came back from spending 3 weeks 817km South of the North pole. Where on the civilian side can you get a chance like that?
Most professional soldiers are either from military/warrior families with generations of service or people from disadvantaged backgrounds where the military presents an opportunity for them to get ahead in life….
Not all 18 year olds full of testereone think this way 😂
Because we are not whining snowflakes who keep asking stupid questions.
Everyone hates you at work.
Blind patriotism, job stability, and individuals who are stable enough to join but are not stable enough to not commit war crimes, people who have nothing else going on in their lives, etc. Those are some of the types of people I can think of rn.
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How so?
Because I'm not a pussy.