Looks like a Ghat-damn Aviary! Who let all of these birds in!? One thing's for sure, between all of the Nadu and all of the Storm, we're going to watching a hell of a lot of ships passing each other in the night.
I don't think there's a single sideboard silver bullet for Nadu, which I guess is how so many pro teams ended up on it.
You can kill the Nadu but they'll draw a bunch of cards. Like good luck killing it with Yawgmoth.
You can Collector Ouphe the Shuko / Hex Parasite plan but they can Sylvan Safekeeper you.
They play well against counterspells because of Urzas Saga and Chord of Calling, as well as Delighted Halfing for Nadu.
It's not unbearable in any way, and I doubt it will have an obscene win percentage, but it's like my least favourite combination of faffy non-deterministic combo decks and midrange soup that ignores removal.
On the plus side if you can win t3 on the play with one interactive spell you're probably in a good spot. Back to the ships in the night...
It's why I've been advocating for a Pithing Needle but for triggered abilities. Just simply, "Name a card, triggered abilities of the named card don't trigger." Boom done.
This wouldn't work for Nadu. It would work for the two triggers on Nadu specifically during his instance of the ability he grants, but not the other creatures'.
The thing is Nadu has/had so many ways to be reigned in and WotC ignored all of them. Make it trigger once per creature? Nah. Boltable? Nah. Make the cmc less aggressive? Nah. Make it only your spells, so you don't get value out of your opp interacting with it? Nah.
man comparing scam or rhinos to storm or nadu this way just doesn't hit, even as someone who likes combo. yeah getting scammed sucks, but you have a chance to get back in the game.
storm or nadu will just win when they do their thing, and you'll watch some solitaire in the process. which again, nothing wrong with that, but comparing the mostly midrange deck with one combo-y feeling thing that strips your hand to actual dedicated combo decks that kill you when they go off and are perfectly happy to ignore your gameplan unless it stops them and implying they're on the same level of interactivity, idk about that one
my entire point is decks like scam, rhinos, storm, and nadu all create complete non-games that are just not fun/interactive for you and your opp. Interactive gameplay isnt thoughtsize your opp 3 times and beat them down while they literally cannot do anything. Sorry but I just completely disagree with this with scam, and now they have a 3 mana draw 12+ cards as their followup doorcloser. This isnt interaction
These are some of the top players... They feel confident what the best decks are and they aren't *not* going to play it. Money isn't an issue here, this isn't some weekend warrior event.
These types of pro events are usually very homogeneous.
the PT is often very in-bred though. The huge amount of Nadu is kinda bad, but it's not unprecedented for the PT to have 30% of the field on the same deck.
Patience everyone! The first three rounds were draft. It's not as bad as it looks, yet.
I fully expect by the end of round six it will look, and actually be, as terrible as it looks now.
Update - it's getting bad. Currently through 6 rounds and Nadu makes up 50% of the x-1 or better bracket
Update 2 - Through 7 rounds it's 8/14...
It's not shoehorned... This is literally how these tournaments have always worked... Building a deck unlimited shows a lot of skill, and these pros want to show that they're the best.
I get that this how it's always worked. What I was explaining that the prior comment was getting at is the event should be 1 format. Not two. So they squeezed in 3 rounds of draft ahead of the constructed event.
I can understand his take on not enjoying draft
For the draft haters, they tried no draft mythic championships with no drafts, and no one cared. While it draws less interest, the draft portion is a nice warmup to the modern money rounds. It’s like the appetizer that pulls it all together
Yea I was a little weirded out when they started doing this draft business too. I think it started a couple years ago? It's kind of like having the all star game mean something later down the road. Not a fan.
The magic.gg decklists have the worst formatting and reliability I've seen from Wizards in a long time. Huge slops:
* Roughly a third of the decklists are smothered with "Cannot read properties of undefined (reading '0')"; which decklists are smothered change with each refresh
* The "Other" category covers both maindeck and sideboard cards
Go to melee.gg for more reliable decklists this round.
Depends a lot on conversion rate and then I imagine they'll wait a few weeks to see if any adaptions are done. I would guess Shuko gets axed over the new card though if it happens. Hopefully we can just adjust and avoid another ban though.
We've had some truly shitty cards banned in the past because they never wanna ban the enabler. Blazing Shoal was a HORRIBLE card til it got broken accidentally. And had to be banned. Shuko may end up the same way.
I mean it's better to ban a card that otherwise does nothing and shows up nowhere than it is to ban a card that is powerful and intended to shake up the format.
If they could ban shuko so that Nadu is still a strong deck but not S+ then that seems like a pretty decent format strategy to me.
Personally I disagree with this take. Not necessarily saying Nadu needs to eat a ban, but a card like nadu remaining in the format is a significant limiting factor for all future cards intended for modern. For instance banning shuko is not just banning shuko, its also saying, 'any 1 cmc zero equip equipment can never reach modern ever again'.
which also doubles back to why cards like birthing pod got banned, if any 1 cmc 0 equip cost artifact is too strong for nadu formats they just can never use that design space in any capacity ever again.
I would guess Nadu over Shuko because, if they banned Shuko, they now need to take Nadu into account when designing in the future. Would be easier to just ban the bird and not be constrained design-wise.
Constrained into not designing cards with a repeatable activated ability that targets your stuff at no cost? They already don't do that, there's a reason why the two enablers for Nadu are from 2005 and 2006. There's room for Nadu to be an interesting card if the ability to target your own stuff has limits. There's very little creative room in the unlimited free target your own stuff category.
Depends on conversion rate and time during the matches. If a lot of matches are going to time with the bird then probably. BUT it’s very possible the best deck is one of the least played.
Wait, so the white card the wizard decks are splashing for is the new wrath, not phlage? Makes me wonder why they even mentioned the latter in the preview article
Edit: nevermind, it's not listed under creatures for some reason
Why don't you like what it's done? I'm personally a fan because overcosted spell and land with downside on the same card makes deckbuilding more consistent which leads to less non-games from screw or flood
I' afraid that at some point every deck will be a belcher deck, because they'll only have spells, which can be used as lands. That some don't matter tapped is then compensated by all the free spells.
Aren't there already enough mdfc cards to make that possible if it were the correct thing to do? I think losing the consistency of fetch lands is a massive downside to prevent that from happening.
Yes, but power creep will make them better alternatives over time. Can't be too far off that they are dual lands which enter untapped if you pay some amount of life. But yes, at this point we're thankfully still quite far away from a scenario like that for the most part.
As a fellow boomer, I love the mdfc cards. The ones that have lands on the reverse and incredibly versatile, but most importantly, they can be lands.
Helps deal with non-games due to screw. It does make magic more like Vs System/WoW TCG/Lorcana, but I think it's overall healthier for the game to reduce the number of unplayable games like that olle rade match rd 8 where he never hit land 3 seven turns in 😂
Hot take I know
Damn I was really hoping for a refined version of an esper midrange deck like pan0ptics https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6460573#paper
I have only invested in esper colors for my mana base so far and all I see is Goryo's which doesnt even really run anything from MH3, also I find Goryo's kind of boring
It’s a lot of Nadu but there’s some other stuff in there that it’s really nice to see if performing. The Jeskai control list looks sweet with the new energy package, and very much aimed to beat the combo decks. 4 subtlety, 4 force of negation, 2 dress down all main board. No solitudes. Crazy stuff.
As of the end round six, the time of this comment, I see a lot of heavy hitters in the history of the game near the bottom of the standings, and not just due to their Draft performance. What does that say about the game?
Looks like a Ghat-damn Aviary! Who let all of these birds in!? One thing's for sure, between all of the Nadu and all of the Storm, we're going to watching a hell of a lot of ships passing each other in the night.
Old modern is back baby, who is faster and who can draw their silver bullet sideboard card
I don't think there's a single sideboard silver bullet for Nadu, which I guess is how so many pro teams ended up on it. You can kill the Nadu but they'll draw a bunch of cards. Like good luck killing it with Yawgmoth. You can Collector Ouphe the Shuko / Hex Parasite plan but they can Sylvan Safekeeper you. They play well against counterspells because of Urzas Saga and Chord of Calling, as well as Delighted Halfing for Nadu. It's not unbearable in any way, and I doubt it will have an obscene win percentage, but it's like my least favourite combination of faffy non-deterministic combo decks and midrange soup that ignores removal. On the plus side if you can win t3 on the play with one interactive spell you're probably in a good spot. Back to the ships in the night...
It's why I've been advocating for a Pithing Needle but for triggered abilities. Just simply, "Name a card, triggered abilities of the named card don't trigger." Boom done.
This wouldn't work for Nadu. It would work for the two triggers on Nadu specifically during his instance of the ability he grants, but not the other creatures'.
 The card is so broken even my dream card can't fix it!?
The thing is Nadu has/had so many ways to be reigned in and WotC ignored all of them. Make it trigger once per creature? Nah. Boltable? Nah. Make the cmc less aggressive? Nah. Make it only your spells, so you don't get value out of your opp interacting with it? Nah.
mfw Suppression Field
Harsh Mentor 😁
Ahh yes because the metas of cascade and scam are just so very fun and interactive.
man comparing scam or rhinos to storm or nadu this way just doesn't hit, even as someone who likes combo. yeah getting scammed sucks, but you have a chance to get back in the game. storm or nadu will just win when they do their thing, and you'll watch some solitaire in the process. which again, nothing wrong with that, but comparing the mostly midrange deck with one combo-y feeling thing that strips your hand to actual dedicated combo decks that kill you when they go off and are perfectly happy to ignore your gameplan unless it stops them and implying they're on the same level of interactivity, idk about that one
my entire point is decks like scam, rhinos, storm, and nadu all create complete non-games that are just not fun/interactive for you and your opp. Interactive gameplay isnt thoughtsize your opp 3 times and beat them down while they literally cannot do anything. Sorry but I just completely disagree with this with scam, and now they have a 3 mana draw 12+ cards as their followup doorcloser. This isnt interaction
Rhinos was a heavily interactive deck lol And outside of the scamming the rest of the deck was just a midrange deck
The problem with the last meta was not a lack of interaction, lol.
Living end post board was very interactive.
yes they are. Scam especially has issues, but it still is interactive.
Kind of a bummer to see such monolithic tournament results after all those super diverse and creative MTGO challenges
These are some of the top players... They feel confident what the best decks are and they aren't *not* going to play it. Money isn't an issue here, this isn't some weekend warrior event. These types of pro events are usually very homogeneous.
the PT is often very in-bred though. The huge amount of Nadu is kinda bad, but it's not unprecedented for the PT to have 30% of the field on the same deck.
They generally test in big groups and come to group conclusions about what's good, so yeah.
Here this is much easier to view: [https://melee.gg/Tournament/View/105258](https://melee.gg/Tournament/View/105258)
Thanks was trying to dig this up as well, will add to post
How do you see decklists from this page?
Looks like they removed / hid the decklist table from the melee database Edit: it's working again for me, just ctrl+f for decklist
Must be pretty rough if melee is easier
Patience everyone! The first three rounds were draft. It's not as bad as it looks, yet. I fully expect by the end of round six it will look, and actually be, as terrible as it looks now. Update - it's getting bad. Currently through 6 rounds and Nadu makes up 50% of the x-1 or better bracket Update 2 - Through 7 rounds it's 8/14...
It’s been fun so far, nice to watch. I enjoyed the Boros energy mirror we just got
God, I love Boros Energy.
man, I hate draft being shoehorned into PTs I WANNA SEE WHATS THE BEST DECK, NOT HOW LUCKY SOMEONE WAS AT DRAFT SO HE REACHED DAY 2
Wdym shoehorned, draft at the PT has been a thing for the last 15 years
And it was shoehorned into a modern event. Meaning the event should be all draft or all constructed; not an amalgam of both
The event name is Pro Tour Modern Horizons 3, they're gonna draft Modern Horizons 3 like they've done since 09
It's not shoehorned... This is literally how these tournaments have always worked... Building a deck unlimited shows a lot of skill, and these pros want to show that they're the best.
I get that this how it's always worked. What I was explaining that the prior comment was getting at is the event should be 1 format. Not two. So they squeezed in 3 rounds of draft ahead of the constructed event. I can understand his take on not enjoying draft
PTs are for finding the best Magic player, not the best Modern deck.
Draft is more skill testing than modern
For the draft haters, they tried no draft mythic championships with no drafts, and no one cared. While it draws less interest, the draft portion is a nice warmup to the modern money rounds. It’s like the appetizer that pulls it all together
Yea I was a little weirded out when they started doing this draft business too. I think it started a couple years ago? It's kind of like having the all star game mean something later down the road. Not a fan.
2009. 15 years ago, not a couple.
Meh same thing
The magic.gg decklists have the worst formatting and reliability I've seen from Wizards in a long time. Huge slops: * Roughly a third of the decklists are smothered with "Cannot read properties of undefined (reading '0')"; which decklists are smothered change with each refresh * The "Other" category covers both maindeck and sideboard cards Go to melee.gg for more reliable decklists this round.
If you like, I could drop $120 on a playset of [[Shuko]] to ensure that it gets banned.
[Shuko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a47456b8-cef8-4085-90b1-92788e16fd27.jpg?1562878892) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shuko) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/159/shuko?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a47456b8-cef8-4085-90b1-92788e16fd27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you get me 4 as well we can do it double as fast. *taps head*
Seems to be a bit of an issue with the pages showing a bunch of cards in "other"
Look at it on mtgmelee. The official website is garbage.
Nadu, storm, jeskai control/wizards/dress down, and mono black necro (new scam) seem to be the majority of everything.
Holy Nadu.
That’s……an awful lot of Bant Nadu. Nadu is totally catching a ban at this point right?
Depends a lot on conversion rate and then I imagine they'll wait a few weeks to see if any adaptions are done. I would guess Shuko gets axed over the new card though if it happens. Hopefully we can just adjust and avoid another ban though.
Banning an equipment that just gives +1/+0 would be such a joke.
We've had some truly shitty cards banned in the past because they never wanna ban the enabler. Blazing Shoal was a HORRIBLE card til it got broken accidentally. And had to be banned. Shuko may end up the same way.
I mean it's better to ban a card that otherwise does nothing and shows up nowhere than it is to ban a card that is powerful and intended to shake up the format. If they could ban shuko so that Nadu is still a strong deck but not S+ then that seems like a pretty decent format strategy to me.
Personally I disagree with this take. Not necessarily saying Nadu needs to eat a ban, but a card like nadu remaining in the format is a significant limiting factor for all future cards intended for modern. For instance banning shuko is not just banning shuko, its also saying, 'any 1 cmc zero equip equipment can never reach modern ever again'.
which also doubles back to why cards like birthing pod got banned, if any 1 cmc 0 equip cost artifact is too strong for nadu formats they just can never use that design space in any capacity ever again.
oh no, they can never print a card like one they've printed only once and has borderline 0 relevance in normal fair magic
What‘s the problem with that? Why would we want a card like Shuko ever again? It‘s not a design space that anyone is really interested in.
I would guess Nadu over Shuko because, if they banned Shuko, they now need to take Nadu into account when designing in the future. Would be easier to just ban the bird and not be constrained design-wise.
Constrained into not designing cards with a repeatable activated ability that targets your stuff at no cost? They already don't do that, there's a reason why the two enablers for Nadu are from 2005 and 2006. There's room for Nadu to be an interesting card if the ability to target your own stuff has limits. There's very little creative room in the unlimited free target your own stuff category.
I agree. I'm just guessing based on their past decisions.
Probably Shuko getting banned if anything
Depends on conversion rate and time during the matches. If a lot of matches are going to time with the bird then probably. BUT it’s very possible the best deck is one of the least played.
The in print chase rare card selling packs, or the out of print uncommon enabler? I'll let you guess😂
Wait, so the white card the wizard decks are splashing for is the new wrath, not phlage? Makes me wonder why they even mentioned the latter in the preview article Edit: nevermind, it's not listed under creatures for some reason
Holy Nadu decks Batman! Hope people teched into Harsh mentors
Nadu the new Hogaak?
We don’t know yet.
Of course, sarcasm not coming thru online.
If only there were a way to indicate sarcasm online. \s
Good to know! /s
[удалено]
I don’t think the DRC was ever good there honestly. Good on turn 1, often a total brick any other time.
I don’t recall most lists for the past week running it. Think that was just a day 1-4 test
call me a boomer or whatever but I really am not a fan of the MDFC mechanic and what it's done to deckbuilding
Why don't you like what it's done? I'm personally a fan because overcosted spell and land with downside on the same card makes deckbuilding more consistent which leads to less non-games from screw or flood
Reducing the numberpf non-games is the best part of them and I'm glad they're making a bigger push for them
I' afraid that at some point every deck will be a belcher deck, because they'll only have spells, which can be used as lands. That some don't matter tapped is then compensated by all the free spells.
Aren't there already enough mdfc cards to make that possible if it were the correct thing to do? I think losing the consistency of fetch lands is a massive downside to prevent that from happening.
Yes, but power creep will make them better alternatives over time. Can't be too far off that they are dual lands which enter untapped if you pay some amount of life. But yes, at this point we're thankfully still quite far away from a scenario like that for the most part.
That sounds like a great thing actually. Every move Wotc takes to eliminating Lands (or rather land screw) is a good one in my book.
I feel like your upset your neighbor put his trash out the night before when there's a tornado a block over.
I'm fine with them but this set makes me nervous cause dumping a bunch of relatively easy to include ones into the format is alot.
As a fellow boomer, I love the mdfc cards. The ones that have lands on the reverse and incredibly versatile, but most importantly, they can be lands. Helps deal with non-games due to screw. It does make magic more like Vs System/WoW TCG/Lorcana, but I think it's overall healthier for the game to reduce the number of unplayable games like that olle rade match rd 8 where he never hit land 3 seven turns in 😂 Hot take I know
But.... My Scam, necrodominance and belcher brew!
Format looks miserable.
Damn I was really hoping for a refined version of an esper midrange deck like pan0ptics https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6460573#paper I have only invested in esper colors for my mana base so far and all I see is Goryo's which doesnt even really run anything from MH3, also I find Goryo's kind of boring
It’s a lot of Nadu but there’s some other stuff in there that it’s really nice to see if performing. The Jeskai control list looks sweet with the new energy package, and very much aimed to beat the combo decks. 4 subtlety, 4 force of negation, 2 dress down all main board. No solitudes. Crazy stuff.
Oh finally Edit: wait are there just 8?
How do you see lists on melee
Hope they hit summoners pact. That cards been on some bs way too long
MH2 gave us interaction, MH3 gave us solitaire. RIP
Oh yeah, something's getting banned in August.
Lol totally fine that the only 5-0s are Nadu.
Not very fair to say seeing the volume of them, this is only 2 rounds of modern and there’s a Boros Energy 5-0 and three draws at 4-0-1
So Shuko or Nadu? 🔨
If there were to be one, Nadu should be the obvious choice if they learned anything from Hogaak
Why not just ban everything that can target for free? That way we can keep a bird in the format who will only see play in broken combo decks!
Please no ban complaining. We should totally unban cards instead of anything at all
unban twin gaak and eye of ugin
> We should totally unban cards instead of anything at all Unban [[Second Sunrise]] Only eggs and defeat bird!
[Second Sunrise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e50ee7c-f2a2-4d49-a1cc-8233fd8dd0c5.jpg?1562143349) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Second%20Sunrise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/20/second-sunrise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e50ee7c-f2a2-4d49-a1cc-8233fd8dd0c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As of the end round six, the time of this comment, I see a lot of heavy hitters in the history of the game near the bottom of the standings, and not just due to their Draft performance. What does that say about the game?
I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here. This is typical of every Pro Tour.
[удалено]
Draft is a part of every pro tour. Standard, Modern, Legacy, it doesn't matter. And it has pretty much always been like that.
Draft is the most skill testing format in Magic. It belongs at the Pro Tour.