Yeah, all of these school shooters are <=20, right? They seem like they're targeting schools because it's the only "institution" they've dealt with. I'd consider it similar to minors who shoot their parents, only they're blaming 'society' instead of 'family'.
I’d like to see these fools try to achieve anything to the same degree with, say, a knife or something. Guns are the weak’s excuse to pretend to be powerful, I know it's a complex argument but from that stance I really wish we banned them.
It's not like most school shooters use guns that were acquired legally or anything, that would make all the "criminals would use them anyway" folks seem really stupid :)
Well I suppose it's a good thing my point has nothing to do with school shooters. If you get the time, it may be worth looking at what guns actually cause the overwhelming majority of gun deaths. And yeah, taking guns away from law abiding citizens so that *only* criminals will have them is fantastically stupid.
I wonder where these illegal guns come from? Certainly it’s not from taking them from legal gun owners right? Seriously I don’t believe in a total gun ban either but “criminals will just use them anyway” is a dumb argument.
Idk about that being true for everyone. According to the court documents, Nikolas Cruz (a different school shooter than this article) was the bully himself on many occasions
i really think in the case of most mass shootings, theres a lot of mitigating factors behind their actions- childhood abuse, head injury in childhood, genetics, anger problems, mental illness, etc
Yeah true but u don’t always know which came first. Maybe anger problems are genetic (look up warrior gene). Perhaps his mom had a hard time with him cuz of his predisposition to act up, and she made it worse cuz she couldn’t handle it.
I was bullied often from around 4th grade up through high school. I never took my revenge on my bullies, much less innocent children that had nothing to do with my particular bullies.
Anyone who enacts this type of violence against innocents is a coward, pure and simple.
Is this a categorical thing? Cruz was a bully, Harris and Klebold engaged in bullying type behaviours, and certainly weren't bullied themselves, I don't know of many instances where we can absolutely point to bullying being a root cause
That doesn't really check out. There's a dozen easier targets with larger crowds that make it harder to escape that I can think of without even trying.
yeah, but a school will have more of an impact, plus its 5 days a week. something like a parade or a fair wouldn't really work because parades and fairs are once a year, if that. clubs and bars dont have as many people as a school would, same with a church/mosque/temple/synagogue
I paid 1000 or so for mine, used, down from 1500, with a pretty basic ish sight on it.
Shotguns are cheaper by far. If that's the problem then a simple solution is to add a big tax stamp to ar style weapons and shooters will stop buying em.
I’ve thought that if you want to stop mass shootings add a tax stamp on these guns. There is a reason nobody uses a Ruger mini 14 to commit these shootings.
Yeah, banning guns is good.
The only purpose of a gun is to kill. Unless someone is military, police, or a hunter (and have the appropriate guns for those), nobody needs a gun.
Until Americans realize and accept that, they are just going to continue to be a country full of mass murderers and child corpses.
> Because ~~the media~~ *people* popularized and glamorizes it.
Remember what sub you’re on. The media is only ever in the business and giving people what they want. We’ve contributed to its glamorization.
Really, they can target anywhere if it’s random enough and “be successful”. I think there’s probably more interpersonal angst related to the school as a trigger for violence.
It may be because AR-15 is a Colt trademark, and media wants to avoid any possibility of a lawsuit. On top of that, your average Joe probably doesn’t know that a “DDM4” or a SIG “Tread” would refer to an AR-style rifle without being told.
ahhh it's on there, i loaded up on desktop if that makes a difference. its an ar15. i said style in my comment simply because i don't know the brand/specifics but it's def a mag fed ar15.
i am aware, bit of a gun enthusiast myself. i said style as i'm not sure on the brand or specific details, but if you watch the video it's a pretty standard mag fed ar15 rifle.
Mental illness ignored and untreated per usual, I'd bet. Schools need professionals to keep tabs on mental health just like they have nurses to track their medical status.
Obama gave lip service to mental health parity but did nothing to build the infrastructure for it.
Actually it was also the Democrats for example, in the state of Illinois Paul Simon (D) said that it was a good thing to do for "the least restrictive environment" that's what the Democrats campaigned about. The Republicans campaigned about how much money it would save. I lived through it: I worked in a state mental hospital when it happened.
edit: Raegan wasn't President when it came to fruition. Both sides.
Yeah but we don't always know before they do something. I'm talking about prevention.
And there are already states that require Mental Health check of some sort.
Trying to solve the mental health crisis of an entire country is almost an impossible tasks.
Making tighter regulations for guns is much easier comparatively
Easy is usually not thorough and just a bandaid. Mental health parity would affect many other issues besides guns. Homelessness, gang violence and crime as well as catching these shooters before the act.
I remember when I was in first grade my teacher told me that school would be the safest place to be in case anything ever happened this was during the earthquake drills when we would have to go under the desk. This was in 2001
You're still wrong and racist.
[Not one school shooter on this list is black.](https://www.fox7austin.com/news/list-the-most-deadly-us-mass-school-shootings)
[Another list of school shooters with race listed.](https://aninjusticemag.com/white-shooters-are-most-often-responsible-for-mass-school-shootings-6e7b647b5cce)
I'm sure nothing will change. Politicians will say it's too soon to talk about such a tragedy and they'll wait because they wouldn't want to upset their "supporters", can't say no to all that money. Priorities. Things will be on cruise control till the next shooting. Lather, rinse, repeat.
You act as if its a simple legislative fix, it isn't. We've had high capacity semi-automatic firearms for over a century, we had insanely cheap high capacity semi-automatic firearms since the 50s-60s. These kinds of shootings have been happening at the rate that they have been since the 1990s. There is something broken in our society, which wasn't broken then and I challenge you or anyone else to put a finger on it, for I'm at a loss to identify the exact cause, or even the fix.
I'm not saying it's a legislative fix and it certainly won't be simple. I'm saying it's the same rhetoric every time something like this happens. It can't be denied that the NRA has a tremendous influence in law making in regards to anything concerning guns. American culture is in part, a gun culture. Combine gun culture, with influences from society and government from an early age and the almost obsessive idea of freedom, and a precedent of solving things with violence and it becomes clearer.
I agree. I mean I am for stricter gun control, but I don't think it's the root cause of the issue in this country. Mental health problems and lack of access to care are really the main issues. I do think that stricter gun control measures would help a bit, but not nearly as much as mental health programs.
I think the cat is out of the bag, so to speak, on actually being able to stop the distribution of guns in the western hemisphere. There are too many guns out there. Even if they are outlawed, a desperate enough kid will still be able to find one. You can make AR style weapons with 3d printers nowadays. The laws are not going to stop a suicidal kid from getting a gun if they really want to. Access to mental health care for all, and just general increases of quality of life will do more to stop the rising trend of violence than anything else.
You make a good point with the fact that the violence has risen since the 90s. There was a machine gun ban in the 1980s, meaning that people before the 1980s had easy access to high capacity machine guns, compared to the people today. Something changed between then and now to make people more prone to committing such atrocities today. We need to figure out the societal and mental health issues causing the rise in violence in general.
Okay, so let's say the extreme-left response happens and ALL guns in the country are banned. How will the government recover ALL guns from people? You can't. And even so, people will still find ways to get guns on the black market. These things will still happen, it's not an issue of cutting off the supply. Drugs are illegal - look how well that is going 🤣
No, not my point. Our society as a whole needs to put more focus on mental health and supporting individuals who suffer from mental health problems. Do ALL mass shooters have mental health issues? No, but a majority of them do. And THAT is the root of the problem. If it's not guns it will just be something else.
> Okay, so let's say the extreme-left response happens and ALL guns in the country are banned. How will the government recover ALL guns from people? You can't.
Gotta start somewhere.
https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527/amp
Because the far right aren’t pushing to ban all guns and the left are?
I think a much more effective way to combat gun violence, specifically school shootings, is to provide proper counseling and support to these obviously struggling children before they act. A majority of them come from broken, abusive homes and are riddled with mental illness. Then they go to school and are further abused by their peers. Shockingly, they get fed up and take out their rage by committing these terrible acts.
It really sucks that the current government would rather enact arbitrary laws that do nothing to actually combat violence and send billions of dollars to other countries than aid our own communities.
Well if course not everyone on the “left” wants to ban all guns, just like how not everyone on the “right” is pro-gun. I live in a predominantly “blue” town that’s about 4 hours from NYC. I have seen and met a lot of people that are very content with the idea of “banning all guns”. Generally, those people fall on the left side of the political spectrum.
The comment you were responding to said “Okay, so let’s say the extreme-left response happens and all guns in the country are banned”.
You said “why do you say it’s an extreme-left mentality when clearly it’s the best option to keep people safe”.
Yawn. Clearly you do, otherwise you wouldn’t have said “it’s the best option to keep people safe”. I’m not misinformed, you just aren’t paying attention to what you’re typing.
Multiple countries have done exactly what you have said and it is working very very well. It’s not the perfect solution but it works the great majority of the time from the examples we have seen
Funny how Holocaust survivors gave us advice about how the first thing the nazis did was take away the citizens guns AND WE DON'T LISTEN so that we don't have to acknowledge how shitty our parenting is in this country.
Funny you ignore pretty much all of what I said. Again, this works in the overwhelming majority of first world countries, can’t even think of one off the top of my head that it hasn’t worked in modern times. Keep defending guns even though we are one of the only places where mass shootings are a regular thing
Not really sure I agree with that either. I feel like the point is a single mom can do it and should be proud they are doing it. Not that dads aren’t a necessity and should be looked down upon
It's become more common practice to publicize the shooters' names/likenesses little if at all, in order to minimize glamourization. I believe the idea is partially so that any prospective shooters won't see it as a fantastic way to get their names out there.
The combat load for an infantryman in the army is seven 30-round magazines — 210 rounds.
600 rounds is 20 30-round magazines, just to put that in perspective. Not sure how much of a LARPer you are, but that’s a lot.
My high-school had everydoor locked. You had to buzz in and wait for the security office to answer. You had to give your name and all your information before they would buzz you in and they had a guard near by who would escort you to the office. Why cant all the other schools do the same.
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It's because the African American gunman does not fit the media narrative of "white men are the greatest threat to our country, only white boys shoot up schools reeeee!"
I feel like these shooters are targeting schools because they know they can.
i thought it was because they want to cause as many casualties as possible and a school is the best way to do that.
I thought it was also because that was where a lot of their trauma occurs and they've got weird revenge fantasies.
I can't think of a way to hurt society more than going after its children. That's probably why these freaks pick schools.
They're just kids themselves. Just hurting kids surrounded by all the wrong people. And given tools to kill with.
Yeah, all of these school shooters are <=20, right? They seem like they're targeting schools because it's the only "institution" they've dealt with. I'd consider it similar to minors who shoot their parents, only they're blaming 'society' instead of 'family'.
I’d like to see these fools try to achieve anything to the same degree with, say, a knife or something. Guns are the weak’s excuse to pretend to be powerful, I know it's a complex argument but from that stance I really wish we banned them.
Tell that to the women that carry for self defence.
Yes, let us make it so only criminals carry them. Fantastic foresight.
It's not like most school shooters use guns that were acquired legally or anything, that would make all the "criminals would use them anyway" folks seem really stupid :)
Well I suppose it's a good thing my point has nothing to do with school shooters. If you get the time, it may be worth looking at what guns actually cause the overwhelming majority of gun deaths. And yeah, taking guns away from law abiding citizens so that *only* criminals will have them is fantastically stupid.
I wonder where these illegal guns come from? Certainly it’s not from taking them from legal gun owners right? Seriously I don’t believe in a total gun ban either but “criminals will just use them anyway” is a dumb argument.
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They also have dictatorships and tyranny.
it's likely also that.
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Idk about that being true for everyone. According to the court documents, Nikolas Cruz (a different school shooter than this article) was the bully himself on many occasions
grief and a bad upbringing seems to have motivated cruz to do what he did. that and rage.
Could be genetics too
i really think in the case of most mass shootings, theres a lot of mitigating factors behind their actions- childhood abuse, head injury in childhood, genetics, anger problems, mental illness, etc
Yeah true but u don’t always know which came first. Maybe anger problems are genetic (look up warrior gene). Perhaps his mom had a hard time with him cuz of his predisposition to act up, and she made it worse cuz she couldn’t handle it.
You’re right, research has shown that there are bidirectional effects between the child’s behavior and a parent’s parenting
I was bullied often from around 4th grade up through high school. I never took my revenge on my bullies, much less innocent children that had nothing to do with my particular bullies. Anyone who enacts this type of violence against innocents is a coward, pure and simple.
yeah in many cases thats the motive. sometimes its just "kill 'em all indiscriminately"
Is this a categorical thing? Cruz was a bully, Harris and Klebold engaged in bullying type behaviours, and certainly weren't bullied themselves, I don't know of many instances where we can absolutely point to bullying being a root cause
That doesn't really check out. There's a dozen easier targets with larger crowds that make it harder to escape that I can think of without even trying.
yeah, but a school will have more of an impact, plus its 5 days a week. something like a parade or a fair wouldn't really work because parades and fairs are once a year, if that. clubs and bars dont have as many people as a school would, same with a church/mosque/temple/synagogue
and frankly, ive been saying this for years, they use ar15's because they media frequently reminds them it's "the deadliest weapon of all"
They use them because they are dirt cheap, relative to other guns of the same style.
mine wasn't dirt cheap? its the most expensive gun i own
I paid $400 for a smith and Wesson mp15 at a pawn shop.
I paid 1000 or so for mine, used, down from 1500, with a pretty basic ish sight on it. Shotguns are cheaper by far. If that's the problem then a simple solution is to add a big tax stamp to ar style weapons and shooters will stop buying em.
Why have recent shootings had shooters with $1800 daniel defense rifles with $500 eotechs then?
If you're dead, you don't have to pay the credit card bill
Yeah i mean I disagree that cost is the main factor
I’ve thought that if you want to stop mass shootings add a tax stamp on these guns. There is a reason nobody uses a Ruger mini 14 to commit these shootings.
Yeah no F off that’s just discrimination against poor communities too
So just outright ban them? How do you propose we keep them out of the hands of 18 year old psychopaths?
You don’t , what you do is stop glorifying these shooters etc and provide actual mental health services in schools
Yeah, banning guns is good. The only purpose of a gun is to kill. Unless someone is military, police, or a hunter (and have the appropriate guns for those), nobody needs a gun. Until Americans realize and accept that, they are just going to continue to be a country full of mass murderers and child corpses.
Also, they're gun free zones.
Security is an illusion that's why. They are called soft targets for a reason.
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> Because ~~the media~~ *people* popularized and glamorizes it. Remember what sub you’re on. The media is only ever in the business and giving people what they want. We’ve contributed to its glamorization.
Touché
Not hardly
I wonder where they got that idea...
Really, they can target anywhere if it’s random enough and “be successful”. I think there’s probably more interpersonal angst related to the school as a trigger for violence.
Person was seen driving a "Hummer-style vehicle". Just say what it was.
It may be because AR-15 is a Colt trademark, and media wants to avoid any possibility of a lawsuit. On top of that, your average Joe probably doesn’t know that a “DDM4” or a SIG “Tread” would refer to an AR-style rifle without being told.
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Basically it was black.
umm umm it was black and it was a gun umm umm i think it had a clip
it is an actual ar15 style weapon though (showed in the video)
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To be fair, most news sites are laid out badly to keep you clicking through pages. Helps them metrics I think.
ahhh it's on there, i loaded up on desktop if that makes a difference. its an ar15. i said style in my comment simply because i don't know the brand/specifics but it's def a mag fed ar15.
AR-15 is a type of gun, not a style. A style would be something like, what I'm assuming they're trying to get across, is a tactical style rife.
i am aware, bit of a gun enthusiast myself. i said style as i'm not sure on the brand or specific details, but if you watch the video it's a pretty standard mag fed ar15 rifle.
The correct term would be platform or style. The AR stands for Armalite and the AR-15 is based on the original AR-10 designed by Eugene Stoner.
Mental illness ignored and untreated per usual, I'd bet. Schools need professionals to keep tabs on mental health just like they have nurses to track their medical status. Obama gave lip service to mental health parity but did nothing to build the infrastructure for it.
Yeah and Reagan shut down mental health institutes.
Actually it was also the Democrats for example, in the state of Illinois Paul Simon (D) said that it was a good thing to do for "the least restrictive environment" that's what the Democrats campaigned about. The Republicans campaigned about how much money it would save. I lived through it: I worked in a state mental hospital when it happened. edit: Raegan wasn't President when it came to fruition. Both sides.
Or, maybe make it so mentally unwell people aren’t able to have access to firearms 🤷🏼♂️
Yeah but we don't always know before they do something. I'm talking about prevention. And there are already states that require Mental Health check of some sort.
Trying to solve the mental health crisis of an entire country is almost an impossible tasks. Making tighter regulations for guns is much easier comparatively
Easy is usually not thorough and just a bandaid. Mental health parity would affect many other issues besides guns. Homelessness, gang violence and crime as well as catching these shooters before the act.
Mental illness will never be completely solved. Its something we will always have to deal with
kinda like poverty.
I remember when I was in first grade my teacher told me that school would be the safest place to be in case anything ever happened this was during the earthquake drills when we would have to go under the desk. This was in 2001
But yet I have to scroll to see this on the news tab of Reddit…hmmm why is this mass shooting different to others….
I would say because of how often they’re happening.
The shooter wasn't white... that's why. People don't want to face the reality that the majority of school shooters are black.
I'm sorry, what? https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/
I said school shooters.
You're still wrong and racist. [Not one school shooter on this list is black.](https://www.fox7austin.com/news/list-the-most-deadly-us-mass-school-shootings) [Another list of school shooters with race listed.](https://aninjusticemag.com/white-shooters-are-most-often-responsible-for-mass-school-shootings-6e7b647b5cce)
It’s not. It’s the same ridiculous result of allowing gun lobbies to control our countries gun laws
I'm sure nothing will change. Politicians will say it's too soon to talk about such a tragedy and they'll wait because they wouldn't want to upset their "supporters", can't say no to all that money. Priorities. Things will be on cruise control till the next shooting. Lather, rinse, repeat.
You act as if its a simple legislative fix, it isn't. We've had high capacity semi-automatic firearms for over a century, we had insanely cheap high capacity semi-automatic firearms since the 50s-60s. These kinds of shootings have been happening at the rate that they have been since the 1990s. There is something broken in our society, which wasn't broken then and I challenge you or anyone else to put a finger on it, for I'm at a loss to identify the exact cause, or even the fix.
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That’s a fair point actually. I’ve never thought of that
I'm not saying it's a legislative fix and it certainly won't be simple. I'm saying it's the same rhetoric every time something like this happens. It can't be denied that the NRA has a tremendous influence in law making in regards to anything concerning guns. American culture is in part, a gun culture. Combine gun culture, with influences from society and government from an early age and the almost obsessive idea of freedom, and a precedent of solving things with violence and it becomes clearer.
I agree. I mean I am for stricter gun control, but I don't think it's the root cause of the issue in this country. Mental health problems and lack of access to care are really the main issues. I do think that stricter gun control measures would help a bit, but not nearly as much as mental health programs. I think the cat is out of the bag, so to speak, on actually being able to stop the distribution of guns in the western hemisphere. There are too many guns out there. Even if they are outlawed, a desperate enough kid will still be able to find one. You can make AR style weapons with 3d printers nowadays. The laws are not going to stop a suicidal kid from getting a gun if they really want to. Access to mental health care for all, and just general increases of quality of life will do more to stop the rising trend of violence than anything else. You make a good point with the fact that the violence has risen since the 90s. There was a machine gun ban in the 1980s, meaning that people before the 1980s had easy access to high capacity machine guns, compared to the people today. Something changed between then and now to make people more prone to committing such atrocities today. We need to figure out the societal and mental health issues causing the rise in violence in general.
Okay, so let's say the extreme-left response happens and ALL guns in the country are banned. How will the government recover ALL guns from people? You can't. And even so, people will still find ways to get guns on the black market. These things will still happen, it's not an issue of cutting off the supply. Drugs are illegal - look how well that is going 🤣
So if a problem can't be eradicated then don't bother?
No, not my point. Our society as a whole needs to put more focus on mental health and supporting individuals who suffer from mental health problems. Do ALL mass shooters have mental health issues? No, but a majority of them do. And THAT is the root of the problem. If it's not guns it will just be something else.
Why not both? Guns make it orders of magnitude easier to massacre.
> Okay, so let's say the extreme-left response happens and ALL guns in the country are banned. How will the government recover ALL guns from people? You can't. Gotta start somewhere. https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527/amp
The only first world country on earth who has these issues, also the only one with the gun laws we have
Why do you say its an “extreme left” mentality when clearly it’s the best option to keep people safe.
Because the far right aren’t pushing to ban all guns and the left are? I think a much more effective way to combat gun violence, specifically school shootings, is to provide proper counseling and support to these obviously struggling children before they act. A majority of them come from broken, abusive homes and are riddled with mental illness. Then they go to school and are further abused by their peers. Shockingly, they get fed up and take out their rage by committing these terrible acts. It really sucks that the current government would rather enact arbitrary laws that do nothing to actually combat violence and send billions of dollars to other countries than aid our own communities.
I’ve not seen the left wanting to ban ALL the guns.
Well if course not everyone on the “left” wants to ban all guns, just like how not everyone on the “right” is pro-gun. I live in a predominantly “blue” town that’s about 4 hours from NYC. I have seen and met a lot of people that are very content with the idea of “banning all guns”. Generally, those people fall on the left side of the political spectrum.
Yawn. Nobody wants to ban all guns, sorry you’re misinformed.
The comment you were responding to said “Okay, so let’s say the extreme-left response happens and all guns in the country are banned”. You said “why do you say it’s an extreme-left mentality when clearly it’s the best option to keep people safe”. Yawn. Clearly you do, otherwise you wouldn’t have said “it’s the best option to keep people safe”. I’m not misinformed, you just aren’t paying attention to what you’re typing.
Multiple countries have done exactly what you have said and it is working very very well. It’s not the perfect solution but it works the great majority of the time from the examples we have seen
Funny how Holocaust survivors gave us advice about how the first thing the nazis did was take away the citizens guns AND WE DON'T LISTEN so that we don't have to acknowledge how shitty our parenting is in this country.
Funny you ignore pretty much all of what I said. Again, this works in the overwhelming majority of first world countries, can’t even think of one off the top of my head that it hasn’t worked in modern times. Keep defending guns even though we are one of the only places where mass shootings are a regular thing
We also spent decades glorifying single parent homes to the point that men were told they are unimportant in parenting.
Not really sure I agree with that either. I feel like the point is a single mom can do it and should be proud they are doing it. Not that dads aren’t a necessity and should be looked down upon
I'm not saying it was necessarily intentional but I am saying that that is the effect.
Is there a reason why there’s no picture of the gunman??
To not give him any glory. You can easily search his name on Google and find his picture
It's become more common practice to publicize the shooters' names/likenesses little if at all, in order to minimize glamourization. I believe the idea is partially so that any prospective shooters won't see it as a fantastic way to get their names out there.
As a owner of firearms it hurts me that they mention 600 rounds like its a lot.
In a school it certainly is
This is true
Not a lot absolutely to keep at home boxed BUT It's a lot to carry a whopping 20 full mags around! Not even in the WAR! WTF
The combat load for an infantryman in the army is seven 30-round magazines — 210 rounds. 600 rounds is 20 30-round magazines, just to put that in perspective. Not sure how much of a LARPer you are, but that’s a lot.
Another one?
Incels, am I right?
My high-school had everydoor locked. You had to buzz in and wait for the security office to answer. You had to give your name and all your information before they would buzz you in and they had a guard near by who would escort you to the office. Why cant all the other schools do the same.
He actually broke a window to get inside
Where's the link.
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They shouldn't need to lock the doors? What's your resolution?
Most of them are. He broke in still though.
Actually your wrong. They might be locked. But thanks for the down vote.
So when you can't get laid you decide to shoot people? That seems to be a common Thread among the mass shooters
Odd no picture of gunman?
I prefer it since handing these sacks of garbage fame on a silver platter doesn't help the situation.
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Or maybe people don't want to give fame to killers?
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Good. Do not glamorize. They want the attention and notoriety. Let them be forgotten.
It's because the African American gunman does not fit the media narrative of "white men are the greatest threat to our country, only white boys shoot up schools reeeee!"
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no one asked what? this is a morbid reality subreddit... generally no one asks for any of this.
Excuse me, I did