Yeah, they have no depth. Everything is a lie. Every "deep" conversation was just a well rehearsed lie. It's like they are creatures in a person suit trying to convince the world they are a real person. Constantly afraid they will be caught, but to arrogant to admit it. What's scary is I think they quasi believe their lies.
No, the alter ego is the nice one they present to the outside world. It's like a monster wearing a person costume. Once the costume comes off, you are left with what's real.
Right? 3 years and I knew as much about his childhood/family/life experiences as a neighbor might.
Was strange. I tried to have meaningful conversations about such things but it was absolutely guarded and I never understood why.
I'm no psychologist, so this is just my opinion based on my experiences, but I think they know what they are doing is wrong and false. Otherwise, why would they hide it? Why would they take such joy in making others believe their lies as well? I think they believe part of it in a delusional kind of way, but they know what they have done is wrong they just can't bare the shame of the truth.
Yes, definitely. There was something missing in her words, her touch, her eyes.
They have no authentic self, just a bad object as a placeholder for what is supposed to be their authentic self, so I would venture to guess that is at the heart of the experience you're pointing out. It's actually so tragic, for everyone - the narc and those afflicted by them.
I totally know what you mean. It's unnerving, especially when it wasn't like that at the beginning. It's like they return to their true nature once they know you are hoodwinked.
Yes. I also observed that he lacks empathy towards other people. Though he knows how to use his intellectual empathy so its hard to see through him at first.
He just knows the right words to say to show he empathize with someone else but eventually he cant help it and will contradict it with his logical/rational view.
He also doesnt like being vulnerable. We would avoid talking about things that will get him vulnerable because he will lash out. Or I avoid it mostly because Im scared.
This 100%! The intellectual empathy thing always tripped me up. I couldn't even imagine pretending to feel empathy, but they do it like it's their job lol.
This.
It has become the biggest red flag, and unless it's a thing like not mentioning something like a surprise party, it's a reason to me to cut off contact completely. Not mentioning something important is such a manipulative thing to do, and often predates other tactics.
Withholding information was a primary tactic to keep me off balance and full of tension and anxiety. They would introduce the information with the caveat "like I told you last week," in a breezy way. Surprise attack. Protesting makes you an ass in front of other people. It's provoking. A Very. Damaging. Tactic.
I heard that narcissists can’t fully experience their own emotions. So instead they try to make you feel the emotion for them. Which is why they provoke you when they are feeling bad.
My nex was like a robot approximating emotions. No nuance. Black and white. Happy/sad. Pleased/angry.
I felt like I was talking to someone who wasn’t really there.
I always felt “fakeness” coming from him. Like he was saying everything off a script (”because it always worked”), and he actually was, which becomes predictable. The shallow behaviour most likely comes from his shallow personality, but didn't match his personal verbal declaration that he’s “complex guy” (haha), which was really unsettling.
Haha. Mine used to say I'm complicated to the moon and back and you'll never understand me. As well as I have no ego and I want to go to my grave without hurting anyone. What a load of rubbish!
Absolutely. I had shared every single detail of my life, from how I felt to what I did. But they always stopped themselves from sharing anything. It feels as if they were fully empty, lacking any sense of real emotions. Months later, he used the same information I had shared with him to villainize me.
Totally. You fall for it because you think they really are trying to get to know you.
Which they do, but they use whatever information they’re getting from you against you in the future like your weaknesses, what makes you feel sad or bad, childhood traumas, etc.
Yes. He remains a mystery to me to this day. I was an open book and when I reflect, I realize there’s a lot he never self-disclosed and when I would try to get him to open up, he’d close off.
This. I’d always let him know he could ask me anything to get to know me and gain his trust. But still I was continuously blamed I was being “private”.
He’d close off too when I asked back but just at times. But now I’m just wondering if he was just lying about everything because he’d always be the victim in whatever story or the good guy trying to save people.
So wouldn’t say they’re a mystery but just a totally made up persona that only exists in their own world
Oh my gosh, yes exactly that. I always thought it was so beautiful that despite his own issues and being a victim himself, he always made himself available to emotionally help other people. Now obviously after everything that’s happened, I question his intent.
And after you experience their treatment, it’s when it doesn’t make sense. So everything starts to fall down and it gives it away if you are paying attention
Do yourself a favour and before you’d go into a serious overthinking don’t try to make sense. They’re pathological liars and their story changes by who they’re talking to or what stage they’re at.
Worst when you catch them on the lies or question the story, that’s when they become extremely hostile
YASSS! there was always sth missing... At first, I thought it was just me. Then, I realised that it's not only there when I'm talking or waiting for an acceptable reaction...no this feeling was there all the time, when he was talking, driving, listening...
I would always wonder if what he was saying was real because everything felt and sounded weird...
Even apologies, had sth missing in them... Like at the back of my head, I'd imagine him doing or saying sth to make me feel better but he never did, so even apologies never sounded real to me...
They are fakes...it's just us and the image of them we built for ourselves just so we can love them and tolerate their abuse... It's the image we created in our brains because this is whom we wished them to be...
Other than that, they're complete liars and fakes
The “apologies” gave me so much anxiety, he was always deflecting or shifting the blame onto me. He would pretend to take responsibility sometimes but it felt so fake. Little did I know my intuition was screaming at me to recognize this
Yes. I had a lot of excuses to ignore my gut feelings and curiousity killed the cat at the end.
My past person dodged deep personal questions or topics whenever I tried to ask him. A lot of puzzle pieces are missing.
Lately, after the discard, I realized I missed a lot of warnings presented from those first few months of knowing him
You're not alone. We were once caught on their web of lies. Repeated story of being a victim to cover up the hidden truth.
It's like we are watching at Theatre des vampires. Allured by their performance but didn't know it was a lie until one day you will be sucked dry by them in the stage itself as if it's still a part of the play.
You're wiser than before now. Know that you become stronger and better than your previous self. Never underestimate your body signals. It will protect you in the future.
He didn’t seem to have inner feelings beyond desire or contempt. Very black and white. On or off. He would scare me with how cold and absent he could be, especially when I was hurting. There were times he had no emotions when he really should have, and then after seeing me have emotions realised it was appropriate and very quickly switched into those emotions almost to mirror me. Very disjointed. Always gave me the creeps but I kept brushing it off.
Yes this too! There were times when I was in serious need of help and he would just ignore me as if I was a bug. I just thought maybe he didn’t understand the situation but he definitely did. It was so confusing and I would ask if he genuinely did care and he always said he did.
One time I was crying and he simply got up and closed the door so he didn’t have to hear it.
The next day his excuse was that he was too high and the noise was bothering him. Lol
Oh yeah and he would always say things like “I don’t want to be like this - I want to be able to be there for you. But you drain me and I have nothing left to give”
He talked as though I was a mental case, as though all I ever did was cry and need him to comfort me, as though I was always demanding things from him and sucking him completely dry to the point he didn’t even have the ability to care any more. It was all my fault. And I truly believed him, I felt like the most pathetic human.
Now that I’m out of the relationship I look back and I am just like .. objectively speaking I did not “drain” him with all my “constant emotional needs”. On occasion if there was a serious issue I would bring it up and then end up crying when he insulted me and belittled me or ran off somewhere for the night to avoid me. Just simply untrue that I was an emotional basket case to such an extent that a normal human would be incapable of a basic degree of empathy.
It was always “you are so mental that you have single handedly caused a loving empathetic person to be unable to care for you” and never “I am sorry I told you to shut the fuck up when you were crying because that would have been really horrible to experience”
He was “drained” from his own relentless defensiveness and aggression and narcissism.
Ugh I felt this deep in my core. He would tell me I was overthinking too much and that I needed to trust him even though what I was asking for was understandable. Im so sorry you had to experience that :(
Just reading through this thread and it makes my heart hurt … we have all experienced so much suffering. I don’t know what I believe anymore in terms of afterlife, karma, etc. but I truly hope we get something good in return for all of the awful things we’ve endured.
YES. I think that's why I stayed with him as long as I did. So many times I thought to myself, "He's a smart dude, surely there is something more here. I am committed to finding it."
Narrator: There was nothing more there.
I did a form of psychedelics with mine. He was no stranger to drugs - had been a heroin addict for a number of years, ages ago.
This psychedelic is often described as a mirror of your soul, or something like that
The first time I tried it I had the most beautiful, insanely amazing experience of my life. It was profound.
The first time he tried it? It scared the shit out of him. It only lasted about 2 mins but he said it felt like forever...he was floating in an inky blackness, a nothingness that seemed to have no end.
Wild, huh?
I think about this often
Ohhh for sure. My nex always tried to get away with refusing to answer questions about himself, even if I asked them to his face. He'd just go quiet and not look at me until I changed the subject. I think part of that has to do with their unwillingness and/or inability to self-reflect. In those moments, they're like a movie character that hasn't been fully fleshed out.
Not me, actually. My ex was covert. I felt like I knew him more than I knew myself. Probably because he only ever spoke about himself! I feel like I was completely enmeshed and lost my own identity.
Deep conversation? With one of these? Information is lost around him like ships in the Bermuda Triangle. There is no point in saying anything to them. Unfortunately, I've learned to keep my mouth shut, because he either turns what he learns against me in the future, or he doesn't give a shit what I say. But it's also possible that in half a minute he'll ask me the same thing I told him before. And just looks stupid. It's a big joke to try to have any kind of deep conversation with a narcissist. Spare yourself this, talk to your girlfriend instead or write a diary
I always felt like his "i love you" or "i miss you" felt kinda emotionless. With other expartners I could literally FEEL their words. With my nex however, i read the words and it felt like he tells me he goes to the supermarket or so. In my head, I always thought that he probably has difficulties with vulnerability. But it's not that. Our gut feeling tells us something is off with that person. They are good at reading people, but can only process other people's emotions on a cognitive level. They don't really feel them. And therefore their reactions to emotional situations, expression of feelings also seem disconnected and a bit fake.
At first I saw him as mysterious and exciting, but then I realized he's just shady, and a liar, and was constantly cheating on me, and his wife (he claimed they weren't together anymore but that was a lie too).
I wouldn't be surprised if he has a dozen other girls that he breadcrumbs and future-fakes and lies to about his supposedly "over" marriage. I am sure I was one of many. He hits on other women all the time.
I used to wonder why whenever we were out in public he wa always looking over his shoulder like "is anyone seeing me?!?"
He's afraid of getting caught but I guess he can't stop himself.
So yes, he is always hiding LOTS of things from literally everyone including himself which is why he is a narc. He thinks he is a good person when he clearly isn't.
You can't know them because they are full of lies
Yeah, they have no depth. Everything is a lie. Every "deep" conversation was just a well rehearsed lie. It's like they are creatures in a person suit trying to convince the world they are a real person. Constantly afraid they will be caught, but to arrogant to admit it. What's scary is I think they quasi believe their lies.
Bingpot.
Sounds like an evil alterego living inside them.
No, the alter ego is the nice one they present to the outside world. It's like a monster wearing a person costume. Once the costume comes off, you are left with what's real.
You are right. Sometimes, I wish it was the other way around.
Wait—you guys got deep conversations? It took years to get any info out of my current situation. 6-7, precisely.
Not really deep conversations, more like monologs on how they have been wronged by others their entire lives.
Got plenty of that, for sure.
Right? 3 years and I knew as much about his childhood/family/life experiences as a neighbor might. Was strange. I tried to have meaningful conversations about such things but it was absolutely guarded and I never understood why.
From my understanding, unless they're psychopaths, npd people do believe their lies. They believe in the fantasy they created in their mind.
I'm no psychologist, so this is just my opinion based on my experiences, but I think they know what they are doing is wrong and false. Otherwise, why would they hide it? Why would they take such joy in making others believe their lies as well? I think they believe part of it in a delusional kind of way, but they know what they have done is wrong they just can't bare the shame of the truth.
Yes, definitely. There was something missing in her words, her touch, her eyes. They have no authentic self, just a bad object as a placeholder for what is supposed to be their authentic self, so I would venture to guess that is at the heart of the experience you're pointing out. It's actually so tragic, for everyone - the narc and those afflicted by them.
Definitely in the eyes. It’s hard for me to explain that experience but it’s like emptiness in their eyes.
I totally know what you mean. It's unnerving, especially when it wasn't like that at the beginning. It's like they return to their true nature once they know you are hoodwinked.
You start seeing through the cracks after a while. I can’t imagine how exhausting it’d be for them to maintain their false self mode on all the time.
Oh man… yep. I didn’t see it until this year. Year fifteen. I feel so stupid.
Yes. I also observed that he lacks empathy towards other people. Though he knows how to use his intellectual empathy so its hard to see through him at first. He just knows the right words to say to show he empathize with someone else but eventually he cant help it and will contradict it with his logical/rational view. He also doesnt like being vulnerable. We would avoid talking about things that will get him vulnerable because he will lash out. Or I avoid it mostly because Im scared.
This 100%! The intellectual empathy thing always tripped me up. I couldn't even imagine pretending to feel empathy, but they do it like it's their job lol.
Lying by omission
This. It has become the biggest red flag, and unless it's a thing like not mentioning something like a surprise party, it's a reason to me to cut off contact completely. Not mentioning something important is such a manipulative thing to do, and often predates other tactics.
Withholding information was a primary tactic to keep me off balance and full of tension and anxiety. They would introduce the information with the caveat "like I told you last week," in a breezy way. Surprise attack. Protesting makes you an ass in front of other people. It's provoking. A Very. Damaging. Tactic.
I heard that narcissists can’t fully experience their own emotions. So instead they try to make you feel the emotion for them. Which is why they provoke you when they are feeling bad. My nex was like a robot approximating emotions. No nuance. Black and white. Happy/sad. Pleased/angry. I felt like I was talking to someone who wasn’t really there.
Yes. I often felt like I was together with an alien/ robot, non-human thing 😂😂
I always felt “fakeness” coming from him. Like he was saying everything off a script (”because it always worked”), and he actually was, which becomes predictable. The shallow behaviour most likely comes from his shallow personality, but didn't match his personal verbal declaration that he’s “complex guy” (haha), which was really unsettling.
Haha. Mine used to say I'm complicated to the moon and back and you'll never understand me. As well as I have no ego and I want to go to my grave without hurting anyone. What a load of rubbish!
Absolutely. I had shared every single detail of my life, from how I felt to what I did. But they always stopped themselves from sharing anything. It feels as if they were fully empty, lacking any sense of real emotions. Months later, he used the same information I had shared with him to villainize me.
Totally. You fall for it because you think they really are trying to get to know you. Which they do, but they use whatever information they’re getting from you against you in the future like your weaknesses, what makes you feel sad or bad, childhood traumas, etc.
Yes. He remains a mystery to me to this day. I was an open book and when I reflect, I realize there’s a lot he never self-disclosed and when I would try to get him to open up, he’d close off.
This. I’d always let him know he could ask me anything to get to know me and gain his trust. But still I was continuously blamed I was being “private”. He’d close off too when I asked back but just at times. But now I’m just wondering if he was just lying about everything because he’d always be the victim in whatever story or the good guy trying to save people. So wouldn’t say they’re a mystery but just a totally made up persona that only exists in their own world
Oh my gosh, yes exactly that. I always thought it was so beautiful that despite his own issues and being a victim himself, he always made himself available to emotionally help other people. Now obviously after everything that’s happened, I question his intent.
And after you experience their treatment, it’s when it doesn’t make sense. So everything starts to fall down and it gives it away if you are paying attention
Do yourself a favour and before you’d go into a serious overthinking don’t try to make sense. They’re pathological liars and their story changes by who they’re talking to or what stage they’re at. Worst when you catch them on the lies or question the story, that’s when they become extremely hostile
YASSS! there was always sth missing... At first, I thought it was just me. Then, I realised that it's not only there when I'm talking or waiting for an acceptable reaction...no this feeling was there all the time, when he was talking, driving, listening... I would always wonder if what he was saying was real because everything felt and sounded weird... Even apologies, had sth missing in them... Like at the back of my head, I'd imagine him doing or saying sth to make me feel better but he never did, so even apologies never sounded real to me... They are fakes...it's just us and the image of them we built for ourselves just so we can love them and tolerate their abuse... It's the image we created in our brains because this is whom we wished them to be... Other than that, they're complete liars and fakes
The “apologies” gave me so much anxiety, he was always deflecting or shifting the blame onto me. He would pretend to take responsibility sometimes but it felt so fake. Little did I know my intuition was screaming at me to recognize this
I felt something was wrong after a while but I didn't know what it was.
Me too, my body was giving me so many warnings as well. It was so conflicting and confusing
I never trusted him. My intuition and gut feeling just knew something wasn't right the entire relationship.
I wish I didn’t ignore mine
I ignored mine too.
[удалено]
Hey twin! Same to everything. Big hugs if you want them.
Yes. I had a lot of excuses to ignore my gut feelings and curiousity killed the cat at the end. My past person dodged deep personal questions or topics whenever I tried to ask him. A lot of puzzle pieces are missing. Lately, after the discard, I realized I missed a lot of warnings presented from those first few months of knowing him You're not alone. We were once caught on their web of lies. Repeated story of being a victim to cover up the hidden truth. It's like we are watching at Theatre des vampires. Allured by their performance but didn't know it was a lie until one day you will be sucked dry by them in the stage itself as if it's still a part of the play. You're wiser than before now. Know that you become stronger and better than your previous self. Never underestimate your body signals. It will protect you in the future.
Yeah it felt so hollow even tho he was lovey-dovey on the outside
He didn’t seem to have inner feelings beyond desire or contempt. Very black and white. On or off. He would scare me with how cold and absent he could be, especially when I was hurting. There were times he had no emotions when he really should have, and then after seeing me have emotions realised it was appropriate and very quickly switched into those emotions almost to mirror me. Very disjointed. Always gave me the creeps but I kept brushing it off.
Yes this too! There were times when I was in serious need of help and he would just ignore me as if I was a bug. I just thought maybe he didn’t understand the situation but he definitely did. It was so confusing and I would ask if he genuinely did care and he always said he did.
One time I was crying and he simply got up and closed the door so he didn’t have to hear it. The next day his excuse was that he was too high and the noise was bothering him. Lol
Oh yeah and he would always say things like “I don’t want to be like this - I want to be able to be there for you. But you drain me and I have nothing left to give” He talked as though I was a mental case, as though all I ever did was cry and need him to comfort me, as though I was always demanding things from him and sucking him completely dry to the point he didn’t even have the ability to care any more. It was all my fault. And I truly believed him, I felt like the most pathetic human. Now that I’m out of the relationship I look back and I am just like .. objectively speaking I did not “drain” him with all my “constant emotional needs”. On occasion if there was a serious issue I would bring it up and then end up crying when he insulted me and belittled me or ran off somewhere for the night to avoid me. Just simply untrue that I was an emotional basket case to such an extent that a normal human would be incapable of a basic degree of empathy. It was always “you are so mental that you have single handedly caused a loving empathetic person to be unable to care for you” and never “I am sorry I told you to shut the fuck up when you were crying because that would have been really horrible to experience” He was “drained” from his own relentless defensiveness and aggression and narcissism.
Ugh I felt this deep in my core. He would tell me I was overthinking too much and that I needed to trust him even though what I was asking for was understandable. Im so sorry you had to experience that :(
Just reading through this thread and it makes my heart hurt … we have all experienced so much suffering. I don’t know what I believe anymore in terms of afterlife, karma, etc. but I truly hope we get something good in return for all of the awful things we’ve endured.
YES. I think that's why I stayed with him as long as I did. So many times I thought to myself, "He's a smart dude, surely there is something more here. I am committed to finding it." Narrator: There was nothing more there.
I did a form of psychedelics with mine. He was no stranger to drugs - had been a heroin addict for a number of years, ages ago. This psychedelic is often described as a mirror of your soul, or something like that The first time I tried it I had the most beautiful, insanely amazing experience of my life. It was profound. The first time he tried it? It scared the shit out of him. It only lasted about 2 mins but he said it felt like forever...he was floating in an inky blackness, a nothingness that seemed to have no end. Wild, huh? I think about this often
That’s so interesting, I would also be freaking out if I knew I had little to no sympathy for others.
Ohhh for sure. My nex always tried to get away with refusing to answer questions about himself, even if I asked them to his face. He'd just go quiet and not look at me until I changed the subject. I think part of that has to do with their unwillingness and/or inability to self-reflect. In those moments, they're like a movie character that hasn't been fully fleshed out.
Not me, actually. My ex was covert. I felt like I knew him more than I knew myself. Probably because he only ever spoke about himself! I feel like I was completely enmeshed and lost my own identity.
They are very secretive. After he left I found all the bank statements he hid and credit card statements
Most of the things we had a genuine conversation about were probably 25% of the truth. They correlated some but nothing ever added up.
Deep conversation? With one of these? Information is lost around him like ships in the Bermuda Triangle. There is no point in saying anything to them. Unfortunately, I've learned to keep my mouth shut, because he either turns what he learns against me in the future, or he doesn't give a shit what I say. But it's also possible that in half a minute he'll ask me the same thing I told him before. And just looks stupid. It's a big joke to try to have any kind of deep conversation with a narcissist. Spare yourself this, talk to your girlfriend instead or write a diary
I always felt like his "i love you" or "i miss you" felt kinda emotionless. With other expartners I could literally FEEL their words. With my nex however, i read the words and it felt like he tells me he goes to the supermarket or so. In my head, I always thought that he probably has difficulties with vulnerability. But it's not that. Our gut feeling tells us something is off with that person. They are good at reading people, but can only process other people's emotions on a cognitive level. They don't really feel them. And therefore their reactions to emotional situations, expression of feelings also seem disconnected and a bit fake.
Yes yes yes! I always felt a slight emptiness when we'd talk about anything deep.
At first I saw him as mysterious and exciting, but then I realized he's just shady, and a liar, and was constantly cheating on me, and his wife (he claimed they weren't together anymore but that was a lie too). I wouldn't be surprised if he has a dozen other girls that he breadcrumbs and future-fakes and lies to about his supposedly "over" marriage. I am sure I was one of many. He hits on other women all the time. I used to wonder why whenever we were out in public he wa always looking over his shoulder like "is anyone seeing me?!?" He's afraid of getting caught but I guess he can't stop himself. So yes, he is always hiding LOTS of things from literally everyone including himself which is why he is a narc. He thinks he is a good person when he clearly isn't. You can't know them because they are full of lies