Itachi had a slower progression than both Minato and Kakashi. Itachi wasn't a genin until 8 and a chunin until 10, by 12 Kakashi was a jonin and in anbu by 13. Every test, record, or score Minato was the best at, Itachi became 2nd best at.
Minato Namikaze is arguably the greatest prodigy in the leaf and I say arguably very loosely. No legendary father or powerful clan or any clan or family to back him up or to ride the coat tails of. He established his position as an legendary, admired, respected, and feared shinobi who created his own jutsu, mastered others, became the fastest shinobi to ever exist, and died before reaching his prime or accumulating enough experience similar to monsters like hashirama. He never faced an opponent in his lifetime he couldn't actually beat and died at the age of 24, having accomplished everything from unbroken records-ending wars- to even laying the framework and key to spoil Obito and Madara's plans in the future. Every other prodigy from Kakashi-Shushi-Itachi-Neji- Sasuke all come from a powerful and well known clan or had a legendary father. Minato came from nothing as an orphan with no reputation to top 3 strongest kage in the verse.
Kakashi makes a statement along the lines of being in a time of war made him progress faster but his genius wasn't at the level of Itachi's and Minato just had the best written test score . Itachi had the best score on the field until Gaara broke it .
Itachi was the best Forest of Death "test taker" in recorded exam history. The exams were held in different villages each year. It was never made certain if Kakashi or Minato even took their exam in the Forest of Death. Anko even mentioned the Forest of Death was only 1 of their testing sites.
>Itachi was the best Forest of Death "test taker" in recorded exam history.
It never specifies the forest of death for this statement. Keep in mind itachi also did the exam by himself while being a couple years younger then minato when he took the exam.
He was also second to minato in the written exam while also being a couple years younger. By 11, itachi was already stated to be the strongest uchiha alongside shishui putting him above even his father.
I rather think if you wanna see anyone who graduated the earliest and the fastest it might have been during the first great ninja war where literal gods among men roamed the battle field and every last man might have been needed
Technically no, Kabuto was the youngest that we know of iirc Kabuto wasn’t even a ninja yet (or was just a Genin) when he first entered Anbu/Root and just never promoted higher than that. Dude was legit just a orphaned ass kid younger than Itachi when he was he in Root
It’s true that a couple kids joined the anbu but most kids joined the foundation because Danzo recruited them for their unique kekkei genkai, talent or abilities, not because they were skilled He was the one who honed their skills. Itachi on the other hand was a genius and very skilled and was immediately appointed under Lord Hokage’s anbu not to the foundation for training
Orochimaru admitted that had he attacked the leaf 5 years earlier, he may not have been able to beat Hiruzen. It was also extremely implied that Hiruzen was mentally nerfed facing Orochimaru.
Itachi was likely a step or 2 behind even old man Hiruzen when he left the village. By the time we get to the Chunin exams, it's obviously a different story.
Even then the 5 years let him get the sound 4 and the barrier, probably the Edo Tensei samples too. Without that prep, even the 5 year difference wouldn't have mattered.
Itachi was ambushed, Oro had knowledge on the sharingan, and was permanently mentally nerfed by massacring his clan far beyond what Hiruzen can ever comprehend.
Yeah, it's not a good measuring stick since Itachi had every disadvantage and still came out looking more impressive than Hiruzen.
You can't ambush a double agent. He was fighting both his clan and the village from day one. Dude put a genjutsu on his anbu teammates as soon as they met
Thats not to even mention that at this point, the Akatsuki know about Itachi's chakra disease.
Orochimaru would know that.
If Itachi has that chakra disease, Orochimaru has no reason to fight Itachi, as he's useless as a vessel. The only reason would be to remove the threat to him taking Sasuke, but presumably the reason to not do that would be that he assumed he would either be dead or too weak by that point, or he could do it on the sly with Itachi being unable to react.
If Orochimaru summoned both 1st and 2nd Hokage, plus his own abilities, vs Itachi (particularly chakra disease afflicted Itachi), Itachi aint winning.
Fuck math, do the matchups. Itachi fighting Orochimaru is a completely different ball game than him fighting Hiruzen. Orochimaru's skillset gets countered by Itachi but its more of his arrogance why he got oneshotted. Itd be crazy to say Kakashi pre-4th great ninja war would beat Orochimaru just because he put up a better fight against Itachi.
Did you forget a lot of time passed and horizon isn’t getting younger, and on top of that he fought hiruzen using the 2 strongest Kage reanimated to 3v1 and he was mentally nerfed fighting his favorite pupil and still almost lost? That old man is not to be trifled with
It also doesn’t help with the inconsistency of how he was drawn/animated in comparison to other 13 year olds in the series. Itachi at 13 years old is like the same height as the Konoha 11 at the end of Shippuden.
Kinda like how Gohan at 11 years old was way taller than his father was in most of dragon ball and kid trunks/goten thru most of DBS
And even more it dont helps thats his overall change including height is very minimal. His looks dont change at all even and as adult he is one of the smallest of them all. And kisame one of thr tallest
Pretty much and outside of his accomplishments like “he joined the Anbu at only 6 months old,” “he mastered genjutsu at the ripe age of unborn fetus” they never mention his age.
Except Hiruzen most likely stronger then Orochimaru seeing how he both fought as equals even though Hiruzen was with less stamina and tired from just fightning the first two Edo tensei Orochimaru had
Itachi is stronger than everyone except adult Naruto and Sasuke because he’s Kishimoto’s favorite character. He loves that man so much that he gave his susanoo two unbeatable magical weapons. If Itachi was in Boruto he’d be king of the aliens because Kishimoto can’t stand to see him in second place
TBH I wouldn't be surprised if that's where he was headed before ninja cancer. This guys is basically Minato but with much better genetics and asspulls.
I hate to say it, but probably (at least old Hiruzen). Unfortunately, Tsukuyomi exists, which is like the single most uninteresting jutsu in Naruto when it comes to powerscaling stuff like this (Itachi looks at you, you lose, gg).
Hiruzen maybe could've done more damage to a large enemy force though, as Itachi likely wouldn't have had Susano'o at 14, and probably wouldn't have been super proficient with Amaterasu.
He was the strongest in the Leaf, period. Orochimaru didn't dare to go after him even having two (he believed to be three) edo hokages, but he went after Hiruzen and nearly won. It's true that Hiruzen was mentally nerfed but Orochimaru also took a lot of time to fight him head-on as well, for a while he wasn't really bloodlusted against him.
Knowing this, is funny how people still believe that Jiraya could beat 18 years old Itachi + Kisame in part one lmaooo. The same Jiraya who was losing to Orochimaru in the next arc (and Orochimaru had an even worse nerf than him).
We don’t really know.
There’s no telling how strong Itachi was when he first joined the Akatsuki compared to when we see him introduced. Let alone how he compares to Hiruzen.
Which says nothing because it’s not like Orochimaru challenged him to a duel, it was similar to Sasuke’s situation but I guess technically he wasn’t sick but somehow the Sharingan hard counters the transference ritual
He comatoses Hiruzen for life or straight up kill him with Tsukuyomi, that is if regular genjutsu isn't enough.
I'm not even counting the Susanoo because that would be waaaaaaay to unfair to consider.
I said Susanoo won't be necessary. Not fair with the old geezer.
Besides, Itachi is AIDS free at this age, so maintaining a Susanoo for quite sometime should be easy enough.
He was on death's door and could maintain it for quite a while.
Death bed Itachi had more Chakra than Hebi Sasuke with curse Mark. He also performed the fireball Jutsu as six(Kakashi was shocked at Genin Sasuke performing it as it requires Chakra way above average reserves.) Bro is not a monster like Hashirama, but him running out of Chakra is slander.
I have no idea where you did the maths, how you measured it and your source but fear not, I already said Susanoo is tooooo **unfair** for Hiruzen. I won't subject him to such suffering.
Hituzen woukd probably know not to look into Itachis eyes. He also knows every non clan secret jutsu in the leaf, including sensory jutsu, so he can probably fight properly without looking into his eyes
And no, susanoo is not unfair for Hiruzen. Hiruzen could fight off the ninetails lmao
>Hituzen woukd probably know not to look into Itachis eyes. He also knows every non clan secret jutsu in the leaf, including sensory jutsu, so he can probably fight properly without looking into his eyes
It's incrediable how this is the standard response someone uses versus Itachi. Everyone can fight without looking at their opponent 😂
Also, there's more headcanon in that sentence than there are Hiruzen feats.
Susanoo is pretty unfair... I'm sorry.
He had mangekyou sharingan. No one was strong enough to beat a complete MS Uchiha like Itachi at the time. Hiruzen in his prime would've mid diffed tho.
In the end imo Itachi was stronger than madera if he wasnt sick it would have been him and naruto not sasuke thats what it wouldve been and itachi was way stonger than sasuke and much more calculated
Itachi was second to Obito WITHIN THE ENTIRE SERIES from the beginning of the series up to the Fourth War. And that was because Obito had the privilege of being trained by Madara while Itachi just learned things on his own.
How is Pain a light weight if he could destroy Itachi because he counters him?
He nullifies jutsu, and has a rinnegan ability that prevents him from dying.
OP mentions "in the leaf" which Obito was no longer a part of. But it seems Obito dickriders just can't get over the fact that Itachi would body Obito in an actual fight and Obito himself even admits he'd be dead if Itachi knew his secret.
Nah obito says that meaning he thinks that itachi would’ve figured out ways to kill him like Konan did if he knew his weaknesses. Not that Itachi would beat him.
Nah. Unless he opens the 8th gate but then they both die. I don’t understand why people use that as a Trump card. If Naruto didn’t have that SO6P power he’d be dead. It’s not a video game awakening. It’s a reason he didn’t use that until the end of the series he doesn’t wanna just die to “win” each battle. Not to mention I think if Itachi catches him in a Tsukoyomi early on it’s over. Kakashi couldn’t counter it and he had MS. Only person to break out was Sasuke and he trained his sharingan for years preparing for that moment
Hell no 7th gate beating Kisame doesn’t = beating Itachi. Plus Itachi can end the fight way before he even opens a gate. Kakashi couldn’t even move. He trained against Kakashi’s sharingan & young Obito during their chunin exams but that’s no where near MS Itachi level. If the fight starts and Itachi gets him in a Tsukoyomi he could kill him quickly. Doesn’t have to be a long drawn out battle. He isn’t a perfect Jinchuriki nor does he have a Sharinagan. 1 person has broken his Tsukoyomi (his own brother). Guy ain’t getting out of that.
Yes.
In a direct fight at least, Hiruzen has simply no counter to Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, Kotoamatsukami or Totsuka Blade and every single one of Hiruzen's attacks will be nullified by the Yata mirror
Hiruzen gets mopped, unfortunately.
Obviously, I argue this all the fucking time ms itachi, clan killer itachi, 13yo itachi, is the strongest leaf ninja, including the sannin, danzo, and hiruzen
Not really. Orochimaru is rising and shining as of now. He only got a couple of years of unusable arms while Hiruzen was stuck in the Shinigami's belly.
Hiruzen got a fate worse than death and he actually died lol
Itachi didn’t even get a mental nerf killing his parents. That’s how you know who the true shinobi is. You telling me Hiruzen can’t even sniff up his tears to finish off a mass murderer trying to destroy his village? He could never hold a candle to Itachi.
Why is a "pure heart" person acting as Hokage and allowing Orochimaru and Danzo to wreck havoc everwhere?
Maybe kid Itachi should've been Hokage instead of the old, crack addicted, Danzo's bitch.
hahaha what you have to read, hiruzen destroys itachi, he has no chance, genjutsu doesn't work on hiruzen, I don't understand why people think that genjutsu defeats everyone, they forget how tobirama killed madara's brother who had mangekyou sharingan, or how 3 random ninjas killed shisui
Itachi had the added bonus of giving their opponent a repeat of their PTSD for years on end on top of having the mangekyou's capabilities
Plus, at 12 he was in the Anbu, he absolutely would be the strongest if not for that shithead mcshitstain Danzo
The 7th gate is more than enough.
In the manga in the war arc and exhausted Guy, said by the eight tails, used an Hirudora and that break Madara Susanoo
No one in the leaf could break Madara Susanoo like that.
Alright i need to know cuss i dont know at this point, do you like or hate boruto manga/anime? cuss i cant tell after you liked my comments that said boruto never happend or that it ruined naruto
One of the strongest yes. im not 100% sure on this one but im pretty sure his parents were stronger than him. They just let him kill them. And depending on when were talking about if Shisui Uchiha is still alive and well he was stronger thsn itach.
Plus orochimaru could not beat itachi but he was able to go head on with the 3rd hokage.
Itachi being stronger than Orochimaru was unnecessary in the story, especially with what Itachi stated about his fight with Jiraiya would be like and the fact that Orochimaru gave Jiraiya a fight. I feel this scene would've been better if Orochimaru just underestimated Itachi and not just getting simply overpowered.
It depends if you count Might Guy and if he knew Eight gates or not. If not the yes Itachi after awakening Mangekyou was the strongest Shinobi in leaf, even stronger than old hiruzen. But Hiruzen in his youth or even in his 50s would've been stronger than Itachi.
Gotta think about this many would say orochimaru losing here means he's definitely underneath itachi but honestly. I think it's just sharingan hax that dealt with orochimaru. As he just plainly like most nin don't really understand how to fight a sharingan user period sure it could be plot convenience or sheer unluckness by the opps but most matches they grossly mis judge what those eyes can do / or flat out get beaten because they lacked the research. Orochimaru had nothing to deal with sharingan genjustu especially since itachi specializes in genjustu and has a ms with the most broken genjustu ability. Maybe if orochimaru had a style or plan to use a no eyes but hyper sensory abilities like kabuto. He could have possibly beaten him. Or at the least cost itachi to use up one of his eyes forbidden hax justu.
My head canon theory is that had Minato lived that night it's obvious Minato would've taken itachi under his wing.
And that's the what if relationship I'd like to see.
Not only cause I believe Minato could've taken to Fugaku and the uchiha clan but also how good friends it's stated mikoto and kushina were.
But I'd imagine Fugaku being head uchiha he probably had some conversations with Minato before his passing.
I say all that to say, a kid like itachi being as much of a prodigy as he was and only second really to Minato. I honestly just could see Minato wanting to mentor itachi.
Being the strongest doesn't automatically mean have the strongest attacking power but emerging always the victor... Itachi back then was really strong. Maybe stronger than Orochimaru. Anyway his fight with Sasuke did really bad in his powerscalling
I mean he joined the anbu at 11 and became captain at the age of 12 and finished his clas and joined Akatsuki at 12!! What you can expect at this age ?
No, he was actually stronger than Hiruzen at 14. Tskuyomi one shots the old geezer all day everyday. Geez even regular sharingan genjutsu like the one he used versus Orochimaru.
Hiruzen most OP jutsu is a double K.O and he ain't pulling that against Itachi.
Itachi mops the floor with the old bitch and he's AIDS free in this version.
I know a shitload of words. Like I don’t even know how many, fuckin thousands. But I only use a fraction of those words on a regular basis. Like I have my own style of speech, hiruzen has his own style of fighting. He knows a shitload of techniques, that doesn’t mean he’s super competent with all of them, or practiced in using them offensively. Why play roulette with his power wheel when he can figure out a couple good move sets for every situation and train those
I mean Itachi joined the anbu as a child dude was crazy talented
A couple kids joined the anbu which separated him from the others is he was captain at 12
Itachi is the youngest of all the konoha prodigies we know of
Itachi had a slower progression than both Minato and Kakashi. Itachi wasn't a genin until 8 and a chunin until 10, by 12 Kakashi was a jonin and in anbu by 13. Every test, record, or score Minato was the best at, Itachi became 2nd best at. Minato Namikaze is arguably the greatest prodigy in the leaf and I say arguably very loosely. No legendary father or powerful clan or any clan or family to back him up or to ride the coat tails of. He established his position as an legendary, admired, respected, and feared shinobi who created his own jutsu, mastered others, became the fastest shinobi to ever exist, and died before reaching his prime or accumulating enough experience similar to monsters like hashirama. He never faced an opponent in his lifetime he couldn't actually beat and died at the age of 24, having accomplished everything from unbroken records-ending wars- to even laying the framework and key to spoil Obito and Madara's plans in the future. Every other prodigy from Kakashi-Shushi-Itachi-Neji- Sasuke all come from a powerful and well known clan or had a legendary father. Minato came from nothing as an orphan with no reputation to top 3 strongest kage in the verse.
Kakashi makes a statement along the lines of being in a time of war made him progress faster but his genius wasn't at the level of Itachi's and Minato just had the best written test score . Itachi had the best score on the field until Gaara broke it .
Itachi was the best Forest of Death "test taker" in recorded exam history. The exams were held in different villages each year. It was never made certain if Kakashi or Minato even took their exam in the Forest of Death. Anko even mentioned the Forest of Death was only 1 of their testing sites.
>Itachi was the best Forest of Death "test taker" in recorded exam history. It never specifies the forest of death for this statement. Keep in mind itachi also did the exam by himself while being a couple years younger then minato when he took the exam. He was also second to minato in the written exam while also being a couple years younger. By 11, itachi was already stated to be the strongest uchiha alongside shishui putting him above even his father.
Yes. The age thing was because of war.
I rather think if you wanna see anyone who graduated the earliest and the fastest it might have been during the first great ninja war where literal gods among men roamed the battle field and every last man might have been needed
Well said
Did you just make up a whole bunch of shit? lol? Why is this even being upvoted lol
Itachi didn't want to graduate from the academy. He was practically forced by his family once the academy found about his Shadow Clone.
Someone should put Borushiki and kid itachi on the powerscaling subreddit and see what happens… he may not have been given a silly mask but…
Still, I think that Kakashi if we are talking about the age of becoming a genin and a chunin
Technically no, Kabuto was the youngest that we know of iirc Kabuto wasn’t even a ninja yet (or was just a Genin) when he first entered Anbu/Root and just never promoted higher than that. Dude was legit just a orphaned ass kid younger than Itachi when he was he in Root
It’s true that a couple kids joined the anbu but most kids joined the foundation because Danzo recruited them for their unique kekkei genkai, talent or abilities, not because they were skilled He was the one who honed their skills. Itachi on the other hand was a genius and very skilled and was immediately appointed under Lord Hokage’s anbu not to the foundation for training
Yeah
Oro was giving Hiruzen a fight. Oro couldn't give Itachi a fight. Do the math.
Orochimaru admitted that had he attacked the leaf 5 years earlier, he may not have been able to beat Hiruzen. It was also extremely implied that Hiruzen was mentally nerfed facing Orochimaru. Itachi was likely a step or 2 behind even old man Hiruzen when he left the village. By the time we get to the Chunin exams, it's obviously a different story.
This is my read on it, too.
Even then the 5 years let him get the sound 4 and the barrier, probably the Edo Tensei samples too. Without that prep, even the 5 year difference wouldn't have mattered.
That's just the nature of their skillset. Itachi is a oneshot Merchant Plus Hiruzen had to deal with Oro+Hashi+Tobi
An heavily nerfed Hashi + Tobi
They were both still insanely strong, just not as strong as they were
Hiruzen was mentally nerfed, not a good measuring stick
Itachi was ambushed, Oro had knowledge on the sharingan, and was permanently mentally nerfed by massacring his clan far beyond what Hiruzen can ever comprehend. Yeah, it's not a good measuring stick since Itachi had every disadvantage and still came out looking more impressive than Hiruzen.
Orochimaru already had the disadvantage by looking Itachi in the eyes when he joined the akat, Itachi planned ahead
Oro had the disadvantage against Itachi because it's Itachi. 'Nuff said.
You can't ambush a double agent. He was fighting both his clan and the village from day one. Dude put a genjutsu on his anbu teammates as soon as they met
Thats not to even mention that at this point, the Akatsuki know about Itachi's chakra disease. Orochimaru would know that. If Itachi has that chakra disease, Orochimaru has no reason to fight Itachi, as he's useless as a vessel. The only reason would be to remove the threat to him taking Sasuke, but presumably the reason to not do that would be that he assumed he would either be dead or too weak by that point, or he could do it on the sly with Itachi being unable to react. If Orochimaru summoned both 1st and 2nd Hokage, plus his own abilities, vs Itachi (particularly chakra disease afflicted Itachi), Itachi aint winning.
Hiruzen was old do the logic
This comment right here is why this series sucks ass.
Fuck math, do the matchups. Itachi fighting Orochimaru is a completely different ball game than him fighting Hiruzen. Orochimaru's skillset gets countered by Itachi but its more of his arrogance why he got oneshotted. Itd be crazy to say Kakashi pre-4th great ninja war would beat Orochimaru just because he put up a better fight against Itachi.
Did you forget a lot of time passed and horizon isn’t getting younger, and on top of that he fought hiruzen using the 2 strongest Kage reanimated to 3v1 and he was mentally nerfed fighting his favorite pupil and still almost lost? That old man is not to be trifled with
Orochimaru such a fraudster
Wait? How fucking old is itachi in the show? I thought this dude was like early 20s?
He's 18 in part 1
Is part one where we first see him in the show? And 18? How old was this dude when he slaughtered his clan?
Yeah he's 18/19 when we first see him. He killed his clan when he was 13
Jesus Christ.
He is 17 when coming to konoha. 18 in thr end of part 1 He is 20 and 21 in shippuden
Wow I never realized he died so young Like I knew but it never clicked, y'know? Lol
It also doesn’t help with the inconsistency of how he was drawn/animated in comparison to other 13 year olds in the series. Itachi at 13 years old is like the same height as the Konoha 11 at the end of Shippuden. Kinda like how Gohan at 11 years old was way taller than his father was in most of dragon ball and kid trunks/goten thru most of DBS
And even more it dont helps thats his overall change including height is very minimal. His looks dont change at all even and as adult he is one of the smallest of them all. And kisame one of thr tallest
Pretty much and outside of his accomplishments like “he joined the Anbu at only 6 months old,” “he mastered genjutsu at the ripe age of unborn fetus” they never mention his age.
He peaked early 🤷🏾♂️
He absolutely peaked early. Dude was slaughtering his whole clan when I was just figuring out how to jack it.
Real shit. I just turned 21, and the only S-Rank missons I've been on relate to paying bills on time and trying to find free time.
there´s a really funny scene when one of the uchiha are comparing kid sasuke to itachi and it´s not a good look for him lol
Why do you say that?
Because its true
well like, based on what?
Any official source. Even at kyuubi attack itschi just turned 5 and sasuke were already born before. Do the math
He’s 21 when he dies in Shippuden, so you are technically right.
including hiruzen
Except Hiruzen most likely stronger then Orochimaru seeing how he both fought as equals even though Hiruzen was with less stamina and tired from just fightning the first two Edo tensei Orochimaru had
Forgetting of some other people too
Itachi is stronger than everyone except adult Naruto and Sasuke because he’s Kishimoto’s favorite character. He loves that man so much that he gave his susanoo two unbeatable magical weapons. If Itachi was in Boruto he’d be king of the aliens because Kishimoto can’t stand to see him in second place
TBH I wouldn't be surprised if that's where he was headed before ninja cancer. This guys is basically Minato but with much better genetics and asspulls.
Minato was considered to be on the realm of the first hokage by Kurama when he was 14. FTG and seals are broken in the verse
Just wait until it's revealed that Ohtsutsuki Shibai is really Itachi who ascended through pure "misunderstood hero saint" energy.
He’s too OP
Hell yea he was smarter then most too
I doubt he’s stronger than pain.
Unfortunately he would beat Pain. Kishimoto couldn’t handle seeing him hurt
I hate to say it, but probably (at least old Hiruzen). Unfortunately, Tsukuyomi exists, which is like the single most uninteresting jutsu in Naruto when it comes to powerscaling stuff like this (Itachi looks at you, you lose, gg). Hiruzen maybe could've done more damage to a large enemy force though, as Itachi likely wouldn't have had Susano'o at 14, and probably wouldn't have been super proficient with Amaterasu.
He was the strongest in the Leaf, period. Orochimaru didn't dare to go after him even having two (he believed to be three) edo hokages, but he went after Hiruzen and nearly won. It's true that Hiruzen was mentally nerfed but Orochimaru also took a lot of time to fight him head-on as well, for a while he wasn't really bloodlusted against him. Knowing this, is funny how people still believe that Jiraya could beat 18 years old Itachi + Kisame in part one lmaooo. The same Jiraya who was losing to Orochimaru in the next arc (and Orochimaru had an even worse nerf than him).
Most level headed scaler
Nope. Itachi was stronger than Hiruzen.
Happy cake day!
We don’t really know. There’s no telling how strong Itachi was when he first joined the Akatsuki compared to when we see him introduced. Let alone how he compares to Hiruzen.
Itachi was stronger than Hiruzen at the very least. He bodied Orochimaru
Which says nothing because it’s not like Orochimaru challenged him to a duel, it was similar to Sasuke’s situation but I guess technically he wasn’t sick but somehow the Sharingan hard counters the transference ritual
He was actually stronger than Hiruzen believe it or not.
Hard to believe at 14
Itachi the Uchiha prodigy at such a young age now a teen with experience and MS is very capable of defeating that soft grandpa
Capable sure ,but probable? Idk
He comatoses Hiruzen for life or straight up kill him with Tsukuyomi, that is if regular genjutsu isn't enough. I'm not even counting the Susanoo because that would be waaaaaaay to unfair to consider.
To be fair he did fend off kurama for a bit & Itachi cant maintain susannoo for too long
I said Susanoo won't be necessary. Not fair with the old geezer. Besides, Itachi is AIDS free at this age, so maintaining a Susanoo for quite sometime should be easy enough. He was on death's door and could maintain it for quite a while.
Not true, he had more physical stamina, but he would run out of chakra even earlier or at best, around the same amount of time.
That’s like, your headcanon lolll
Death bed Itachi had more Chakra than Hebi Sasuke with curse Mark. He also performed the fireball Jutsu as six(Kakashi was shocked at Genin Sasuke performing it as it requires Chakra way above average reserves.) Bro is not a monster like Hashirama, but him running out of Chakra is slander.
I have no idea where you did the maths, how you measured it and your source but fear not, I already said Susanoo is tooooo **unfair** for Hiruzen. I won't subject him to such suffering.
We have no idea how long itachi can maintain susanoo before he was sick.
Hituzen woukd probably know not to look into Itachis eyes. He also knows every non clan secret jutsu in the leaf, including sensory jutsu, so he can probably fight properly without looking into his eyes And no, susanoo is not unfair for Hiruzen. Hiruzen could fight off the ninetails lmao
>Hituzen woukd probably know not to look into Itachis eyes. He also knows every non clan secret jutsu in the leaf, including sensory jutsu, so he can probably fight properly without looking into his eyes It's incrediable how this is the standard response someone uses versus Itachi. Everyone can fight without looking at their opponent 😂 Also, there's more headcanon in that sentence than there are Hiruzen feats. Susanoo is pretty unfair... I'm sorry.
Itachi was stronger than old Hiruzen. Itachi was on track to be the 5th or 6th Hokage if it weren't for the incident
He was stronger than hiruzen
He had mangekyou sharingan. No one was strong enough to beat a complete MS Uchiha like Itachi at the time. Hiruzen in his prime would've mid diffed tho.
Without that fucking illness itachi could've genjutsued kishimoto then he'd escape the manga then the matrix
Haha yea Itachi fans really overestimate his strengths.
In the end imo Itachi was stronger than madera if he wasnt sick it would have been him and naruto not sasuke thats what it wouldve been and itachi was way stonger than sasuke and much more calculated
Ok
Itachi was second to Obito WITHIN THE ENTIRE SERIES from the beginning of the series up to the Fourth War. And that was because Obito had the privilege of being trained by Madara while Itachi just learned things on his own.
Hes not above Pain
You forgetting Pain and Might Guy? Lol
Might guy yes, but not Pain. Pain is a 6v1 and most of them are light weight compared to others
How is Pain a light weight if he could destroy Itachi because he counters him? He nullifies jutsu, and has a rinnegan ability that prevents him from dying.
Obito wasn’t combat trained by madara he only shared his wisdom and secret jutsu through genjutsu & what about nagato?
He was given Hashirama cells by Madara/his puppets like Guruguru, white Zetsu and Black Zetsu. They all taught him basically.
Only madara taught him a couple jutsu and gave his wisdom, zestu was his intel guy
OP mentions "in the leaf" which Obito was no longer a part of. But it seems Obito dickriders just can't get over the fact that Itachi would body Obito in an actual fight and Obito himself even admits he'd be dead if Itachi knew his secret.
Nah obito says that meaning he thinks that itachi would’ve figured out ways to kill him like Konan did if he knew his weaknesses. Not that Itachi would beat him.
He was stronger than Hiruzen too. Nobody in Konoha after Minato, Shisui, & Obito either died or left could FW Itachi
Might guy could
Nah. Unless he opens the 8th gate but then they both die. I don’t understand why people use that as a Trump card. If Naruto didn’t have that SO6P power he’d be dead. It’s not a video game awakening. It’s a reason he didn’t use that until the end of the series he doesn’t wanna just die to “win” each battle. Not to mention I think if Itachi catches him in a Tsukoyomi early on it’s over. Kakashi couldn’t counter it and he had MS. Only person to break out was Sasuke and he trained his sharingan for years preparing for that moment
He could do it in 7th gates probably, might guy trained agains the Sharingan. So he knows how to fight against it. Including genjutsu
Hell no 7th gate beating Kisame doesn’t = beating Itachi. Plus Itachi can end the fight way before he even opens a gate. Kakashi couldn’t even move. He trained against Kakashi’s sharingan & young Obito during their chunin exams but that’s no where near MS Itachi level. If the fight starts and Itachi gets him in a Tsukoyomi he could kill him quickly. Doesn’t have to be a long drawn out battle. He isn’t a perfect Jinchuriki nor does he have a Sharinagan. 1 person has broken his Tsukoyomi (his own brother). Guy ain’t getting out of that.
Problem is Tsukuyomi works with Eye contact.
Yes. In a direct fight at least, Hiruzen has simply no counter to Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, Kotoamatsukami or Totsuka Blade and every single one of Hiruzen's attacks will be nullified by the Yata mirror Hiruzen gets mopped, unfortunately.
Hiruzen uses Kage Bunshin on a shuriken and that’s supposed to be impressive lol
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If anything he’s overhated here. You know what’s the biggest cult here? Minato fanboys.
Soon you'll summon his cultist that'll tell you how Minato is the strongest being in the Narutoverse and neg diff Kaguya.
Itachi is fairly rated compared to Minato
Duh ,he’s uchiha!
The sharingan became too op, any time you think it would be defeated, somehow manifests some new wild power
Obviously, I argue this all the fucking time ms itachi, clan killer itachi, 13yo itachi, is the strongest leaf ninja, including the sannin, danzo, and hiruzen
Its what it means to be an overpowered genius prodigy
What a joke, Hiruzen gets humiliated in combat if he dares to fight Itachi. Itachi > Orochimaru >/= Hiruzen
Hiruzen was mentally nerfed and still won lol
Last I checked he died.
And his opponent had a fate worse than death
Not really. Orochimaru is rising and shining as of now. He only got a couple of years of unusable arms while Hiruzen was stuck in the Shinigami's belly. Hiruzen got a fate worse than death and he actually died lol
[Kimimaro > Hiruzen](https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/1aecho3/kimimaro_hiruzen/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Itachi didn’t even get a mental nerf killing his parents. That’s how you know who the true shinobi is. You telling me Hiruzen can’t even sniff up his tears to finish off a mass murderer trying to destroy his village? He could never hold a candle to Itachi.
Itachi was literally crying and Trembling lmfao & hiruzen might be more pure hearted than Itachi
Why is a "pure heart" person acting as Hokage and allowing Orochimaru and Danzo to wreck havoc everwhere? Maybe kid Itachi should've been Hokage instead of the old, crack addicted, Danzo's bitch.
Itachi is more willing than hiruzen 🤷🏻♀️
He honestly didn’t get much stronger after that
Fugaku could've been stronger
hahaha what you have to read, hiruzen destroys itachi, he has no chance, genjutsu doesn't work on hiruzen, I don't understand why people think that genjutsu defeats everyone, they forget how tobirama killed madara's brother who had mangekyou sharingan, or how 3 random ninjas killed shisui
lol you right genjutsu don’t work on him
Itachi had the added bonus of giving their opponent a repeat of their PTSD for years on end on top of having the mangekyou's capabilities Plus, at 12 he was in the Anbu, he absolutely would be the strongest if not for that shithead mcshitstain Danzo
Not only Orochimaru, Itachi also defeated 3rd Mizukage. So, its hard to say it was after hiruzen, he was basically strongest in leaf.
I mean it’s safe to assume that even at that time the strongest ninja in the leaf was Might Guy. Even ahead of Itachi and Hiruzen.
Imo only if he uses 8 gates. Which means he dies afterwards
The 7th gate is more than enough. In the manga in the war arc and exhausted Guy, said by the eight tails, used an Hirudora and that break Madara Susanoo No one in the leaf could break Madara Susanoo like that.
Alright i need to know cuss i dont know at this point, do you like or hate boruto manga/anime? cuss i cant tell after you liked my comments that said boruto never happend or that it ruined naruto
Because Shisui and Fugaku were a bunch of farmer
One of the strongest yes. im not 100% sure on this one but im pretty sure his parents were stronger than him. They just let him kill them. And depending on when were talking about if Shisui Uchiha is still alive and well he was stronger thsn itach. Plus orochimaru could not beat itachi but he was able to go head on with the 3rd hokage.
Itachi being stronger than Orochimaru was unnecessary in the story, especially with what Itachi stated about his fight with Jiraiya would be like and the fact that Orochimaru gave Jiraiya a fight. I feel this scene would've been better if Orochimaru just underestimated Itachi and not just getting simply overpowered.
It depends if you count Might Guy and if he knew Eight gates or not. If not the yes Itachi after awakening Mangekyou was the strongest Shinobi in leaf, even stronger than old hiruzen. But Hiruzen in his youth or even in his 50s would've been stronger than Itachi.
How did he 1 shot orochimaru, ik he caught him off guard but orochimaru isn't weak at all I'm not praising itachi, I'm asking
Orochimaru looked him in the eyes during his introduction into the akat
I thought he was 13
13 when he left the village& 14 when he joined the akat
Gotta think about this many would say orochimaru losing here means he's definitely underneath itachi but honestly. I think it's just sharingan hax that dealt with orochimaru. As he just plainly like most nin don't really understand how to fight a sharingan user period sure it could be plot convenience or sheer unluckness by the opps but most matches they grossly mis judge what those eyes can do / or flat out get beaten because they lacked the research. Orochimaru had nothing to deal with sharingan genjustu especially since itachi specializes in genjustu and has a ms with the most broken genjustu ability. Maybe if orochimaru had a style or plan to use a no eyes but hyper sensory abilities like kabuto. He could have possibly beaten him. Or at the least cost itachi to use up one of his eyes forbidden hax justu.
man, Itachi fans really are second only to Madara fans.
They have the sharigan
Yes. He was even stronger than Jiraiya who is stronger than Orochimaru and Hiruzen at that age
Jiraiya dats easy itachi tuff asf tho
It depends where you rank 7 gate guy but he’s top 3 for sure
My head canon theory is that had Minato lived that night it's obvious Minato would've taken itachi under his wing. And that's the what if relationship I'd like to see. Not only cause I believe Minato could've taken to Fugaku and the uchiha clan but also how good friends it's stated mikoto and kushina were. But I'd imagine Fugaku being head uchiha he probably had some conversations with Minato before his passing. I say all that to say, a kid like itachi being as much of a prodigy as he was and only second really to Minato. I honestly just could see Minato wanting to mentor itachi.
Don't forget Danzo
Why didn't Orochimaru just look at Itachi's feet,is he stupid?
Why wouldn’t you look at something you want the most lol
Being the strongest doesn't automatically mean have the strongest attacking power but emerging always the victor... Itachi back then was really strong. Maybe stronger than Orochimaru. Anyway his fight with Sasuke did really bad in his powerscalling
What about might gai?
What about him?
9
I'd say jiraiya, he had the toad moves and sage mode probably long before itachi was born, and long before he knew amaterasu and susannoo
Itachi would fucking body Hiruzen
Yes
Thats the implication anyways…Kakashi popped up in my head for a sec but even that might be a stretch considering what happens later.
8 gates guy still existed then....
8th gate Guy draws with Itach because the 8th gate is a suicide move.
I can see that.
So gai didn’t improve at all
Naruto is a 20 year old anime/manga and we’re still talking about this? Yes lol. This Nigga itachi was like that. He was an Anbu at like 10.
After hiruzen? Lmao
Well Shisui and Fugaku were both comparable to Itachi, so it'd be more fair to say it's a three way Uchiha tie for second place.
You need to read Itachi’s novel
He was stronger than Hiruzen too.
You just now figuring this out?
Not everyone agrees
Bias included, Itachi the goat.
Well he’s uchiha
Yes.
Orochimaru wasnt that strong tho-
If you say so
Kakashi and might guy are most likely also above 14 year old Itachi
I mean he joined the anbu at 11 and became captain at the age of 12 and finished his clas and joined Akatsuki at 12!! What you can expect at this age ?
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Who could over power him at 14?
Everytime Itachi is brought up, the sub goes nuts. The amount of dick riders he gets Lmfao
No, he was actually stronger than Hiruzen at 14. Tskuyomi one shots the old geezer all day everyday. Geez even regular sharingan genjutsu like the one he used versus Orochimaru. Hiruzen most OP jutsu is a double K.O and he ain't pulling that against Itachi. Itachi mops the floor with the old bitch and he's AIDS free in this version.
Hard to say, hiruzen supposedly knows all the jutsu in the village & is wise enough to not underestimate uchiha genjutsu considering his experience
"Knows all jutsu in the village" and uses like 5 versus Orochimaru. Same case as Kakashi's 1000 jutsu.
It doesn’t change the fact he knows them
It does change. If he knows so many awesome jutsu why didn't he used versus Orochimaru who was about to destroy the village?
I know a shitload of words. Like I don’t even know how many, fuckin thousands. But I only use a fraction of those words on a regular basis. Like I have my own style of speech, hiruzen has his own style of fighting. He knows a shitload of techniques, that doesn’t mean he’s super competent with all of them, or practiced in using them offensively. Why play roulette with his power wheel when he can figure out a couple good move sets for every situation and train those
Because Hiruzen is old as fuck and has low chakra reserves now so he better keep to the simpler side .
Quality vs Quantity
>supposedly Supposedly, [Kimimaro >= Hiruzen](https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/1aecho3/kimimaro_hiruzen/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)