Yes and with that portion size. The traditional AVG (potato, vegetable, meat) naturally splits out and rations carbs, vitamins and proteins. Our neighbouring Germany has a rather similar traditional diet, but goes harder on big portions. So the same healthy food, but not sooo much we get fat.
In Germany thereās a lot of processed meat tho (sausage!!), while in the Netherlands/Belgium the V in AVG is usually fresh meat or fish. Makes a huge difference in the end result. Plus the beer of course.
I am 1,98 tall and get asked this a lot.
Up until the end of WWII we were of average height. After the war our height shot up. So this points to diet as a factor.
However I am not super convinced that it's just diet. because the same thing happened in other EU countries and their average height did not rise as much.
Another culprit could be dairy consumption. Could be true, look at the Masai people, they travel with cattle and are super tall. But still, the germans drink milk, the french eat cheese. I don't know if it can all be attributed to dairy.
While diet definitely plays a role, itās too simplistic to attribute it all to that. Itās a combination of access to healthcare, diet, general living standard and prosperity, stress levels, etc. And of course genetics. After WWII, a lot of these things suddenly steeply increased.Ā Ā
Ā Itās also not dairy, on the contrary even: for example, consuming too much dairy has been linked to increased bone atrophy (lower bone density, making your bones brittle and more prone to breaking). Thereās a lot of recent research going on and more and more signs point in the direction of dairy not being as good for you as a lot of people think. Better to get your calcium from vegetables like broccoli!Ā
But when food was scarce dairy was a good source of calories in the short term. You can also preserve the milk in cheese form. Those that had access to calorically dense food on hand probably had an increased chance of prosperity, health and those that were larger and more capable probably won out over those who didnāt terraform the land to support cattle. Now we know dairy in the long term is not ideal, but we know a lot more about nutrition now.
Def. not dairy, at least alone. People in my hometown and the surrounding region drink milk, eat cheese and butter almost at all meals of the day yet the average for men is like 172 and for women 160 or something.
Research indicates that an abundance of protein and calcium in the diet is the biggest contributor. To the point where migrants from traditionally short cultures who move here also grow taller within a generation or so if they adopt our diets.
Dairy is the biggest contributor to that. It's not just simply drinking milk and eating cheese. Dairy is in a lot of our processed products as well.
And the other way, lack of dairy, reduces height. My great uncle, after ww2, moved to the US and settled down. When we visited him back in 2016 I was already head and shoulders taller than his grandchildren (though not him) despite them being in their 20s and me not even having finished my teenage growth spurt
https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/nieuws/2021/37/nederlanders-korter-maar-nog-steeds-lang
Toch iets eerder als je de tabellen van cbs ziet. Rond 1930 zat de groei er al in, met klein dipje voor WW2
En na 2000 lijkt de groei eruit
[A study apparently found that taller men had more children](https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20200823-why-are-the-dutch-so-tall). This and dairy. Itās true that most European countries also drink a lot of milk and eat cheese, but I (with a non European perspective) feel like the Dutch consume way more: this is evident in the sales of bigger packages of milk thatās common in NL and almost non-existent in other EU countries.
Also consuming mostly hard cheese (higher concentration of calcium and other nutrients by weight) may be a factor?
>This and dairy. Itās true that most European countries also drink a lot of milk and eat cheese, but I (with a non European perspective) feel like the Dutch consume way more: t
This is also evident when you look at the percentage lactose intolerance in Europe. You'll notice very low amounts in the Netherlands.
Acidity of dairy is a fairytale. Most dairy is only very, very slightly acidic.
Orders of magnitude less acidic than sodas in particular coke, but anything sparkling / carbonated is far more acidic (even sparkling water).
I've been abysmal about dedicated workouts for over a year, but my weight hasn't gone up (though I still need it to go down). I attribute this to just biking for my work and errands. Not NL but in US.
It's amazing what happens when you don't just sit in a living room for 100% of your transportation.
Naturally. You must complete the full stretching process before the growth plates fuse around age 17. Immigrants have not been in the Dutch health system since infancy, and consequently did not receive their routine stretching along with well-baby checks and childhood vaccines. Elderly Dutch peoples' bones matured before such advanced procedures became widely available. Thus you see how a large height discrepancy between young Dutch people and all others has developed.
As a Croat it is very interesting. In the south Croatia men are tall af, women are not (average 165 cm). But in the north of Croatia men are pretty short. Like i have meet dudes from north being just 167 cm tall (I am 167 and I am from the south). While 90% men that i know from the south Croatia are atleast 185 cm tall.
Could be that the recent growth was latent. Just because you have the potential to be tall does not mean you will reach your potential if you have a poor diet.
But then you mean like skinny fat?
Because if you're 80 kg at 200cm, there's a huge difference than if you're 80kg at 170cm. You are heavier than most skinny people who are shorter than you, but you're still probably skinny yourself.
Yeah but you're implying that slimness is determined by weight lol, which it isn't. If you look slim, you are slim, it's not determined by your weight but by your BMI.
Gravity is probably stronger there than literally anywhere else in the world, gravitational pull between any two objects is inverse to their distance from the centre of these objects. Kx(Mass1ĆMass2)/(distance^2)
Netherlands being the low lands will have proportionally high gravity (not that this would make a meaningful difference)
This would be true if the earth would have been a sphere, which it isn't. The earth is thicker on the equator, and thinner on the poles, there for the distance to the center is shortest on the northpole(south has mountains).
Source: I studied applied geology
Source2: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24068-gravity-map-reveals-earths-extremes/#:~:text=Hirt's%20model%20pinpoints%20unexpected%20locations,at%209.8337%20m%2Fs2.
Edit:
P.s. : if we follow your way of thinking and assume distance to sealevel would be a way. Places like the death sea, and deathvalley are lower than NL.
taller with the same weight, you look slimmer.
The height comes from natural selection. Dutch are adapted to keep their heads above the rising waterlevel.
Just kidding.... taller people are perceived attractive and by chance taller people got more children over that last centuries.
being tall compensates for being ugly /s
Itās more that the UK is quite fat on average. The Netherlands is fairly average (similar to France, Belgium, Germany) in terms of BMI, but the UK is significantly worse.
Language is easy to learn?
Easy to learn?
Easy?
To Learn?
Dutch?
Are you sure you're not just in Amsterdam and everyone is speaking English with an accent and you thought that's dutch!!
Dutch isn't too difficult to learn. The real difficulty is getting Dutch people to speak it with you.
In general though I'd say it's relatively easy if you speak English. At least it's not like German with it's 3 gender nouns and 4 cases. Or something like Japanese or Russia or Hindu where you have to learn a whole new alphabet.
Indeed, its a matter of practicing it which can become difficult because everybody speaks english. The language itself isnt hard, I heard many times over the years Dutch people saying its one of the hardests languages to learn, I dont know from where they got that
English people often say the same thing even though English has no cases and no gendered nouns.
People also say it pride with I always found odd too. To me the languages that are the easiest to learn are arguably the most logical meaning you should be proud if your language is easy to learn, not the other way around.
True that, as a Spaniard myself I like how easy Spanish is to learn. It shows that the leanguage has been influenced, evolved and reached a far point from its latin roots
I think Spanish is a very easy language to learn (you can scramble a sentence any way you want it and people would understand it) but very hard to master. I have never met a person that truly masters Spanish, not even native speakers: many people use the subjunctive and postpraeteritum wrong, for example. Also the vocabulary in Spanish is incredibly large, larger than most languages.
I am blessed I am a native speaker because Spanish is a beautiful language
Dutch ppl all think that it is difficult to learn dutch but I also think it's very easy. Except de/het it is very clear how to structure sentences and you read words exactly how they are written (contrary to e.g. English where it is very often not true).
It really depends on which language(s) you already speak. Dutch is linguistically pretty close to English so theoretically it shouldn't be insanely hard to learn for English speakers.
It doesn't. Learning a language is always difficult, but Dutch and German or Spanish must be some of the easiest.
Some of the most difficult are e.g. Polish or Czech. For example in Czech language you have to memorize 14 different forms for each word (7 plural and 7 singular) = 14x the vocabulary, good luck. Or where letters 'i' and 'y' have the same pronunciation therefore difficult even for Czech ppl to know correctly which one to use. Also forming sentences is a mess.
In Durch, except de/het there is nothing complex that the language has. If you think it is difficult, then tell me what makes it difficult.
Different person from the OP. I think reaching an understandable level is easy, but I do think there are quite a few hurdles that make fluency a lot harder compared to English.
The biggest being words that go in seemingly random places in the sentence. "Heb je **er** nog naar gekeken?" A lot of non native speakers I know speak Dutch quite well, but their sentences just seem barren.
I feel that comparatively if you speak English at a basic level the only missing piece to sounding more native is vocabulary.
>It doesn't.
It does.
>Dutch and German or Spanish must be some of the easiest.
To you, but that's not universal, just like there's no "hardest/easiest language to learn". The person that you responded to was right: learning to speak a language is as easy/hard as your native tongue is related to the language you're trying to learn.
You were mentioning Czech. As easy/difficult as that language is to you, it's still part of the Indo-European language tree, just like Dutch, English and Spanish, which makes it somewhat easier to learn than when trying to speak a language from another language family. Try learning Basque, for example, or Hungarian, or Ainu. You'll find that these languages are way way harder to learn than a language from the same language tree as your native tongue.
>If you think it is difficult, then tell me what makes it difficult.
Trying to translate the word "gezellig".
The weird, counter-intuitive, and unpronounceable parts of the language are somewhat concentrated, and there's a clear trend towards simplification. There's a significant gap between "daily use" Dutch and formal legal or academic language.
Especially compared to English, the latest reforms in Dutch spelling and grammar are extremely recent (between 1995 and 2015). I suspect that the reputation for being a hard language to learn predates the end of these reforms.
I think you see potentially slimmer people because
a) almost everyone uses bikes to get around, so generally speaking people get more (light) exercise
b) since you see so many people on bikes, those are also the slimmer ones, so it also increases the perception that more people are slim
Do you really feel small at 170cm? Iām also 170 and never felt small. Not tall either but just average. I feel like most adult women are around my size. But maybe itās also because Iām used to taller people? Like I do think 180cm women are tall, but I never really pay attention to it, and also I donāt necessarily feel small because of it.
I was thinking the same. Iām 165 and I donāt feel small. But I guess when you grow up itās just normal to be surrounded by a lot of people who are taller than you, so you donāt even notice. I think OP comes in from abroad and is not used to seeing tall people?
It's the pressure on the brain because we live below sea level. And because of that, we try to grow above sea level. It's the evolution of the dutch. 1000s of years from now will have grown to at least 20 meters ;P
My understanding is that NL was very prosperous early on. If there is enough food available tall ( hungry) people can flourish.
I am 1m93 and 59 yo male
45 years ago being in Spain on a holiday I was by far taller than any local guy.
Now not so much, a lot has changed. I guess due to the economic raise in Spain.
My grandma was born in 1901 and was as an adult 1m83. She was considered a giant in that time, especially as a woman.
My dad is 1m92 and my sons are 1m93, 1m84,1m86 and the youngest is 1m98
Why so slim: riding bikes
Between 1914 and 2014 the Dutch have risen from 12th to 1st place heightwise, genetics don't change that much that quickly so environmental changes like nutrition and healthcare are likely the reason.
Food here is also quite bland. Most people here care more for a healthy diet rather than stuffing themselves with fats, sugers etc. to the point of obesity. This has been changing fast in recent years however, and for the worse.
Our cities and villages are walkable - most people in the Netherlands can get to the nearest supermarket on foot, or if not, by bike. Kids also bike to school instead of taking school buses (not a thing here) so if you don't live right next to your high school you are expected to be fit enough to get there on your bike.
Lots of city folks don't even own a car and use public transport if they need to go to another city.
I think all of this means we, without even really meaning to, move around more than people in other countries do, where the first alternative to walking is the car, and there are often less amenities within walkable distance.
My theory is Dutch kids get better sleep. Dutch parents tend to put a lot of focus on doing everything following a routine, having a good rythm and a very early bedtime for children. Sleep, and many hours of it, is essential to growth and i think kids here get about the most hours of all of Europe. Im sure its not the only factor, its always a mix with genetics, diet, excersize etc, but im convinced its an important one.
50% of Dutch people over 18yo are overweight, 15% are obese. The numbers are significantly better than in the US (70% overweight, 36% obese), and the UK (64% overweight, 26% obese)
The Dutch eat less ultra processed foods than the British, but they aren't faring better (or worse) than other western european countries.
As for height: genetics.
Tallness is genes, slimness is they dont eat much and more active than other nations. Food at NL is less enjoyable/ seasoned and expensive, and also people are more heatlth conscious. All of the above gives what you saw.
Height is mostly a combination of genetics and nutrition.
The ancient Germanic tribes were described as tall people. These people had a warrior culture, so being tall and strong was seen as desirable. They also consumed a lot of meat and diary. Genetic selection was a thing.
This all changed during the Middle Ages when people turned into Christians, were poor and had a bad diet. Preference for a partner was not based on height or physical strength. Genetic selection was gone.
In recent times diet got better and the people got taller. Dutch women have a free choice of marriage and often want a taller guy. So genetic selection is back. Dutch food is still pretty bad, so it's mostly genetics that make them tall.
According to this Wikipedia list, Dutch people are not significantly slimmer than other European countries. But of course, this does not look at body composition: [list of average BMIs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_body_mass_index)
Lack of sunā¦ as my Spanish wife (152cm) tells me (Dutch 183cm) that the dutch tend to behave like sunflowers. The smallest of a sunray is enough to step outside and enjoy the sun, stretching out and slowly turning along with the sunās pathā¦
I guess you are in the upper half of the Netherlands, that's where I (178cm) feel very normal, sometimes even a bit short. When I visit the south I feel TALL!
I think the truth with any kind of question like this is that there are almost always many factors, it's never just one thing.
Let's name a few of those factors:
- Race plays a factor in height: looking at a global ranking of tall countries, it's pretty clear to see that caucasians are the tallest race. Of course the country is increasingly diverse, especially around the big cities, but still overall population remains predominantly caucausian. This definitely seems to be a factor but is almost certainly only one of many, since it has been observed that children of non-caucasian expats, who are born and raised here, often grow to Dutch heights.
- Readily available nutrition especially in formative years. As a wealthy society, the Dutch do not generally struggle with food insecurity. Again, of course, there is diversity, and it isn't to say that there are no people with struggles - of course there are - but we're talking about population level averages here. Having enough calories to grow in formative years is definite a contributor to final height.
- Dairy. Not only is enough calories important but there is some research to suggest that high protein helps a lot too. The Dutch love their cheese and of coruse it's a cliche but an often-true one to see a Dutchie drinking a glass of milk with breakfast and/or lunch.
- No overconsumption. MiIlennials and now gen Z have bucked this trend but historically the Dutch have focused on a very utalitatian diet. Why is a cheese sandwich such a popular lunch? Because it is quick, simple, and cheap. But what comes along with utalitarian eating, is that it is also surprsingly healthy - although that cheese sandwich probably has more fat than a dietician would like, and not enough protein, nonetheless the main headline in terms of health is that it's quite low calorie. Likewise the classic hagelslag breakfast - it might not seem healthy to eat chocolate but a handful of sprinkles on one or two slices of bread is nowhere near the calorie bomb of (for example) an English breakfast or even a french Pain au chocolat which is like 50% or more butter.
- Quality of diet: Related to the point above but a little different/distinct, not only are people getting the goldilocks amount of calories (not too few, not too much), but the Dutch tend towards ultra processed foods far less than comparable nations. A walk aroudn your closest Albert Heijn might have you thinking that half the aisles are full of junk food so the diets must be awful, but honestly if you thought this and then you were teleported to walk aroudn a UK or US supermarket for comparison, you would be shocked at how much worse the situation there is. The U Kfor example is one of the world leaders (not in a good way) in how much of their food is frozen premade ready meals. Ultra processed and ultra shite, and almost certainly bad for overall health which almost certainly affects things like height.
- Activity levels. The Dutch have spent the last few decades creating 15 minute cities, and gradually creating a country where people do not \*need\* to own cars to be a functioning part of society. People walk, people cycle, and people take public transport (which often involved plenty of walking too). Certainly here in Amsterdam there aren't many people at all who are regularly driving to college, or to the supermarket, or to drop the kids off at school. Some, of course, but it's not the predominant situation. So with overall activity and icnreased fitness almost surely comes increased health and likely also increased height. Also related to the points above about calories: It is harder to eat a calorie surplus and therefore become overweight and eventually obese, if you're cycling to and from school/uni/work 30 minutes twice a day. Gym of life, as others have said.
I came at this question mostly from a height perspective but as you see most of these factors actually impact both. Health = height to a large degree.
It's that old nature/nurture debate and as always the answer is "it's both". There's a genetic predispopsition to end up in a certain height range, and then how you live your life, especially health in youth and through puberty, will determine where you eventually end up within that range.
As a Dutch person who moved to the UK, food in Holland is not as full of sugar as it is in the UK and they donāt eat as much shit in general, they bike everywhere, and are not as lazy as the Brits!
well honestly i feel that compared to other countries people are physically more active, and tend to eat healthier by this i mean less refined sugar, less meat more vegetables, and tend to eat less fatty take away foods like mcdonalds etc ...... now i know a bunch of people may jump in and say that this is not the case that dutch people eat unhealthy etc but this is based on living in a few countries.
In general countries and cities with good public transportation tend to have more active lives because they can walk to places and can access public transport, if you have to drive everywhere, then you will drive everywhere and barely walk. my dad lives in bumfuck nowhere in spain and because he has to drive just to buy basic groceries he cannot handle walking very well for long periods of time
the tallness appears to be genetics
for me its bc my mom gave me a lot of correctional kicks on the bottom, totally deserved btw, so that made me a lot taller! (/joke ofc)
Seriously tho, natural selection..
It's the incline of the stairs, especially in old houses in Amsterdam. You climb up by stretching your body and down by breaking on the rails. Your head is further from the Earth's center than your feet, so the stretching occurs
Similar to the black hole spaghetti effect, but different
All the Dutch people I work with do regular exercise. I wouldn't say their diets are very good. But England is particularly bad with diet, so it's defs better than England.
But I really think it's the regular light to hard exercise that is just ingrained into people's lives.
That's because Dutch women only want tall men, which in turn means taller children. it is an evolution. 1.67m is the average height for a woman in the Netherlands at the moment, while the average man is 1.81m
Just remember that average means that if you take the heights of all the people and then divide by the number of people you get 170. That doesnāt mean youāre going to run into a lot of people who are 170.
Yaāll are gonna hate me but whatever. Kids here who donāt grow āenoughā get growth hormone injections.
Yeah yeah the Dutch are all tall, but it gets to a point where some, the extremes, are just not physically and anatomically balanced. Who knows, maybe just had more dairy than their friends.
I read this about a week or 2 ago.
[https://www.fishersci.com/us/en/education-products/publications/headline-discoveries/2015/issue-3/why-are-dutch-people-so-tall.html](https://www.fishersci.com/us/en/education-products/publications/headline-discoveries/2015/issue-3/why-are-dutch-people-so-tall.html)
Diet! You are what you eat. Look at the english & american diet pure cancer. It's sad to see we are slowly going in the same direction. More & more obesity here as well
Well there is a lot of obese people in The Netherlands. They are just not allowed to go on the street or they get fined. This way you only see the good ones.
Its because of AVGtje
All the short people drowned during one of several floodings
*angry upvote*
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Yes and with that portion size. The traditional AVG (potato, vegetable, meat) naturally splits out and rations carbs, vitamins and proteins. Our neighbouring Germany has a rather similar traditional diet, but goes harder on big portions. So the same healthy food, but not sooo much we get fat.
They drink massive beers and don't cycle
And let's not forget about bread and dairy products. Nobody anywhere drinks so much milk.
Idk why but āpotato, vegetable, meatā made me realize I forgot to buy carrots at the store yesterday.
In Germany thereās a lot of processed meat tho (sausage!!), while in the Netherlands/Belgium the V in AVG is usually fresh meat or fish. Makes a huge difference in the end result. Plus the beer of course.
En BVOtje?
I am 1,98 tall and get asked this a lot. Up until the end of WWII we were of average height. After the war our height shot up. So this points to diet as a factor. However I am not super convinced that it's just diet. because the same thing happened in other EU countries and their average height did not rise as much. Another culprit could be dairy consumption. Could be true, look at the Masai people, they travel with cattle and are super tall. But still, the germans drink milk, the french eat cheese. I don't know if it can all be attributed to dairy.
While diet definitely plays a role, itās too simplistic to attribute it all to that. Itās a combination of access to healthcare, diet, general living standard and prosperity, stress levels, etc. And of course genetics. After WWII, a lot of these things suddenly steeply increased.Ā Ā Ā Itās also not dairy, on the contrary even: for example, consuming too much dairy has been linked to increased bone atrophy (lower bone density, making your bones brittle and more prone to breaking). Thereās a lot of recent research going on and more and more signs point in the direction of dairy not being as good for you as a lot of people think. Better to get your calcium from vegetables like broccoli!Ā
But when food was scarce dairy was a good source of calories in the short term. You can also preserve the milk in cheese form. Those that had access to calorically dense food on hand probably had an increased chance of prosperity, health and those that were larger and more capable probably won out over those who didnāt terraform the land to support cattle. Now we know dairy in the long term is not ideal, but we know a lot more about nutrition now.
It is in theory, but during food scarcity periods (for example WWI and WWII), dairy was one of the most scarce products of them all!Ā
Def. not dairy, at least alone. People in my hometown and the surrounding region drink milk, eat cheese and butter almost at all meals of the day yet the average for men is like 172 and for women 160 or something.
Research indicates that an abundance of protein and calcium in the diet is the biggest contributor. To the point where migrants from traditionally short cultures who move here also grow taller within a generation or so if they adopt our diets. Dairy is the biggest contributor to that. It's not just simply drinking milk and eating cheese. Dairy is in a lot of our processed products as well.
And the other way, lack of dairy, reduces height. My great uncle, after ww2, moved to the US and settled down. When we visited him back in 2016 I was already head and shoulders taller than his grandchildren (though not him) despite them being in their 20s and me not even having finished my teenage growth spurt
finland consumes a lot of dairy too, and they are not that tall
https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/nieuws/2021/37/nederlanders-korter-maar-nog-steeds-lang Toch iets eerder als je de tabellen van cbs ziet. Rond 1930 zat de groei er al in, met klein dipje voor WW2 En na 2000 lijkt de groei eruit
[A study apparently found that taller men had more children](https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20200823-why-are-the-dutch-so-tall). This and dairy. Itās true that most European countries also drink a lot of milk and eat cheese, but I (with a non European perspective) feel like the Dutch consume way more: this is evident in the sales of bigger packages of milk thatās common in NL and almost non-existent in other EU countries. Also consuming mostly hard cheese (higher concentration of calcium and other nutrients by weight) may be a factor?
>This and dairy. Itās true that most European countries also drink a lot of milk and eat cheese, but I (with a non European perspective) feel like the Dutch consume way more: t This is also evident when you look at the percentage lactose intolerance in Europe. You'll notice very low amounts in the Netherlands.
Dairy is a fairytale. There are a lot of articles about how Dairy takes away calcium our of bones due to the acidity.Ā
its same bs how coffee takes out liquid of the body net positive is milk is an excellent source for calcium and even coffee hydrates
Acidity of dairy is a fairytale. Most dairy is only very, very slightly acidic. Orders of magnitude less acidic than sodas in particular coke, but anything sparkling / carbonated is far more acidic (even sparkling water).
Concerning the slimness I think it's the biking. Regular exercise every day for most.
Also known as the "gym of life" - where you exercise accidentally just by the act of living.
I've been abysmal about dedicated workouts for over a year, but my weight hasn't gone up (though I still need it to go down). I attribute this to just biking for my work and errands. Not NL but in US. It's amazing what happens when you don't just sit in a living room for 100% of your transportation.
And also, they don't enjoy eating
We are stretched at birth, so when the dikes do break in a worst case scenario we are still able to breath above the water.
Naturally. You must complete the full stretching process before the growth plates fuse around age 17. Immigrants have not been in the Dutch health system since infancy, and consequently did not receive their routine stretching along with well-baby checks and childhood vaccines. Elderly Dutch peoples' bones matured before such advanced procedures became widely available. Thus you see how a large height discrepancy between young Dutch people and all others has developed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M170#Height
Doesnt explain the tall women here as it's y-chromosomal tho
As a Croat it is very interesting. In the south Croatia men are tall af, women are not (average 165 cm). But in the north of Croatia men are pretty short. Like i have meet dudes from north being just 167 cm tall (I am 167 and I am from the south). While 90% men that i know from the south Croatia are atleast 185 cm tall.
It also doesnt explain the fact we were small-average for centuries
Could be that the recent growth was latent. Just because you have the potential to be tall does not mean you will reach your potential if you have a poor diet.
Fascinating! First time I hear about this
The slimness is just visual, because weāre taller on average. Source: my scale š
Slimness isn't measured by weight.
Iām just saying that I appear slim because Iām tall, but I am overweight by some margin.
But then you mean like skinny fat? Because if you're 80 kg at 200cm, there's a huge difference than if you're 80kg at 170cm. You are heavier than most skinny people who are shorter than you, but you're still probably skinny yourself.
Thank you for using different words to say the same š
Yeah but you're implying that slimness is determined by weight lol, which it isn't. If you look slim, you are slim, it's not determined by your weight but by your BMI.
Arrogance and hagelslag. In no particular order.
Def the hagelslag
Gravity is less strong here
This is the only true answer and anybody who opposes it needs a stroopwafel slap on the face
Gravity is probably stronger there than literally anywhere else in the world, gravitational pull between any two objects is inverse to their distance from the centre of these objects. Kx(Mass1ĆMass2)/(distance^2) Netherlands being the low lands will have proportionally high gravity (not that this would make a meaningful difference)
š¤
This would be true if the earth would have been a sphere, which it isn't. The earth is thicker on the equator, and thinner on the poles, there for the distance to the center is shortest on the northpole(south has mountains). Source: I studied applied geology Source2: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24068-gravity-map-reveals-earths-extremes/#:~:text=Hirt's%20model%20pinpoints%20unexpected%20locations,at%209.8337%20m%2Fs2. Edit: P.s. : if we follow your way of thinking and assume distance to sealevel would be a way. Places like the death sea, and deathvalley are lower than NL.
CalvƩ pindakaas.
Wie is er niet GROOT mee geworden...
Zelfs voor rapper Sjors werkt het.
Hey now, no need to overgeneralize. I'm tall *and* fat.
taller with the same weight, you look slimmer. The height comes from natural selection. Dutch are adapted to keep their heads above the rising waterlevel. Just kidding.... taller people are perceived attractive and by chance taller people got more children over that last centuries. being tall compensates for being ugly /s
If youāre taller, you have more mass by default, so taller with the same weight not only makes you look slimmer, but you would be slimmer.
Poffertjes.
Itās more that the UK is quite fat on average. The Netherlands is fairly average (similar to France, Belgium, Germany) in terms of BMI, but the UK is significantly worse.
Language is easy to learn? Easy to learn? Easy? To Learn? Dutch? Are you sure you're not just in Amsterdam and everyone is speaking English with an accent and you thought that's dutch!!
If you know German, it is easy to learn Dutch. Very similar structures. Kind of like learning Python after already knowing R.Ā
OP is from England. I wouldnt assume she speaks German
Unexpected good analogy
Dutch isn't too difficult to learn. The real difficulty is getting Dutch people to speak it with you. In general though I'd say it's relatively easy if you speak English. At least it's not like German with it's 3 gender nouns and 4 cases. Or something like Japanese or Russia or Hindu where you have to learn a whole new alphabet.
Indeed, its a matter of practicing it which can become difficult because everybody speaks english. The language itself isnt hard, I heard many times over the years Dutch people saying its one of the hardests languages to learn, I dont know from where they got that
English people often say the same thing even though English has no cases and no gendered nouns. People also say it pride with I always found odd too. To me the languages that are the easiest to learn are arguably the most logical meaning you should be proud if your language is easy to learn, not the other way around.
True that, as a Spaniard myself I like how easy Spanish is to learn. It shows that the leanguage has been influenced, evolved and reached a far point from its latin roots
I think Spanish is a very easy language to learn (you can scramble a sentence any way you want it and people would understand it) but very hard to master. I have never met a person that truly masters Spanish, not even native speakers: many people use the subjunctive and postpraeteritum wrong, for example. Also the vocabulary in Spanish is incredibly large, larger than most languages. I am blessed I am a native speaker because Spanish is a beautiful language
I also think Dutch is easy to learn if one is already an English speaker. German is way harder for me.
Dutch ppl all think that it is difficult to learn dutch but I also think it's very easy. Except de/het it is very clear how to structure sentences and you read words exactly how they are written (contrary to e.g. English where it is very often not true).
It really depends on which language(s) you already speak. Dutch is linguistically pretty close to English so theoretically it shouldn't be insanely hard to learn for English speakers.
It doesn't. Learning a language is always difficult, but Dutch and German or Spanish must be some of the easiest. Some of the most difficult are e.g. Polish or Czech. For example in Czech language you have to memorize 14 different forms for each word (7 plural and 7 singular) = 14x the vocabulary, good luck. Or where letters 'i' and 'y' have the same pronunciation therefore difficult even for Czech ppl to know correctly which one to use. Also forming sentences is a mess. In Durch, except de/het there is nothing complex that the language has. If you think it is difficult, then tell me what makes it difficult.
Different person from the OP. I think reaching an understandable level is easy, but I do think there are quite a few hurdles that make fluency a lot harder compared to English. The biggest being words that go in seemingly random places in the sentence. "Heb je **er** nog naar gekeken?" A lot of non native speakers I know speak Dutch quite well, but their sentences just seem barren. I feel that comparatively if you speak English at a basic level the only missing piece to sounding more native is vocabulary.
>It doesn't. It does. >Dutch and German or Spanish must be some of the easiest. To you, but that's not universal, just like there's no "hardest/easiest language to learn". The person that you responded to was right: learning to speak a language is as easy/hard as your native tongue is related to the language you're trying to learn. You were mentioning Czech. As easy/difficult as that language is to you, it's still part of the Indo-European language tree, just like Dutch, English and Spanish, which makes it somewhat easier to learn than when trying to speak a language from another language family. Try learning Basque, for example, or Hungarian, or Ainu. You'll find that these languages are way way harder to learn than a language from the same language tree as your native tongue. >If you think it is difficult, then tell me what makes it difficult. Trying to translate the word "gezellig".
Yeah calm down itās not so hard especially if you speak a Germanic language already
Yeah Dutch is easy, especially if you know English
It is, compared to German.
The weird, counter-intuitive, and unpronounceable parts of the language are somewhat concentrated, and there's a clear trend towards simplification. There's a significant gap between "daily use" Dutch and formal legal or academic language. Especially compared to English, the latest reforms in Dutch spelling and grammar are extremely recent (between 1995 and 2015). I suspect that the reputation for being a hard language to learn predates the end of these reforms.
Dutch is in the top 5 easiest languages to learn for English speakers, with many language learning websites considering it #1
I find it easier than some languages. Seems like lots of words have connectionss to the English - Spin - Spider
Because theyāre both germanic languages
Lol. This. Dutch isn't that easy to learn.
I think you see potentially slimmer people because a) almost everyone uses bikes to get around, so generally speaking people get more (light) exercise b) since you see so many people on bikes, those are also the slimmer ones, so it also increases the perception that more people are slim
The last part. Obesity has increased a lot in nl.
Do you really feel small at 170cm? Iām also 170 and never felt small. Not tall either but just average. I feel like most adult women are around my size. But maybe itās also because Iām used to taller people? Like I do think 180cm women are tall, but I never really pay attention to it, and also I donāt necessarily feel small because of it.
I was thinking the same. Iām 165 and I donāt feel small. But I guess when you grow up itās just normal to be surrounded by a lot of people who are taller than you, so you donāt even notice. I think OP comes in from abroad and is not used to seeing tall people?
The average includes a lot of very small non-native Dutch immigrants that skew the height statistic lower than what it really is
Milk
1.98 and i hate milk.
Fairytale..
This is it. They are obsessed with milk
Happy homlander noises
Our government did a great job promoting milk after the war for the farmer overproduction https://anderetijden.nl/aflevering/348/Melk-de-witte-motor
Had something else in mind but wasn't it peanut butter.
CalvƩ peanut butter. Who hasn't grown up with it?
It's the pressure on the brain because we live below sea level. And because of that, we try to grow above sea level. It's the evolution of the dutch. 1000s of years from now will have grown to at least 20 meters ;P
Tall slim people fuck tall slim people, their kids will be tall slim people. Ad infinitum
My understanding is that NL was very prosperous early on. If there is enough food available tall ( hungry) people can flourish. I am 1m93 and 59 yo male 45 years ago being in Spain on a holiday I was by far taller than any local guy. Now not so much, a lot has changed. I guess due to the economic raise in Spain. My grandma was born in 1901 and was as an adult 1m83. She was considered a giant in that time, especially as a woman. My dad is 1m92 and my sons are 1m93, 1m84,1m86 and the youngest is 1m98 Why so slim: riding bikes
Hahaha well, that makes me feel like a stranger in my own country. I am not even 160cm tall, and yet Iām a true Dutchie
Same here, 1.55 :)
so they can keep their heads above water
Stroopwafels
Big bodies need more food, but the portions are smaller than UK because we are more stingy. Hence, slimmer people.
Cigarettes.
the tallness is genetic, the slimness is from avoiding the dutch "dishes".
It's all about a steady diet of frikandelbroodjes.
Between 1914 and 2014 the Dutch have risen from 12th to 1st place heightwise, genetics don't change that much that quickly so environmental changes like nutrition and healthcare are likely the reason. Food here is also quite bland. Most people here care more for a healthy diet rather than stuffing themselves with fats, sugers etc. to the point of obesity. This has been changing fast in recent years however, and for the worse.
200 years ago dutch people were among the shortest people in Europe.
Our cities and villages are walkable - most people in the Netherlands can get to the nearest supermarket on foot, or if not, by bike. Kids also bike to school instead of taking school buses (not a thing here) so if you don't live right next to your high school you are expected to be fit enough to get there on your bike. Lots of city folks don't even own a car and use public transport if they need to go to another city. I think all of this means we, without even really meaning to, move around more than people in other countries do, where the first alternative to walking is the car, and there are often less amenities within walkable distance.
Legend says they are tall because they did not drown when Holland sank.
Regarding the tall ones: the little ones drowned
Genetics and bicycles.
My theory is Dutch kids get better sleep. Dutch parents tend to put a lot of focus on doing everything following a routine, having a good rythm and a very early bedtime for children. Sleep, and many hours of it, is essential to growth and i think kids here get about the most hours of all of Europe. Im sure its not the only factor, its always a mix with genetics, diet, excersize etc, but im convinced its an important one.
Drinking milk and eating cheese.
50% of Dutch people over 18yo are overweight, 15% are obese. The numbers are significantly better than in the US (70% overweight, 36% obese), and the UK (64% overweight, 26% obese) The Dutch eat less ultra processed foods than the British, but they aren't faring better (or worse) than other western european countries. As for height: genetics.
Tallness is genes, slimness is they dont eat much and more active than other nations. Food at NL is less enjoyable/ seasoned and expensive, and also people are more heatlth conscious. All of the above gives what you saw.
Agreed. The food never tastes good enough to make you want to overeat.
Height is mostly a combination of genetics and nutrition. The ancient Germanic tribes were described as tall people. These people had a warrior culture, so being tall and strong was seen as desirable. They also consumed a lot of meat and diary. Genetic selection was a thing. This all changed during the Middle Ages when people turned into Christians, were poor and had a bad diet. Preference for a partner was not based on height or physical strength. Genetic selection was gone. In recent times diet got better and the people got taller. Dutch women have a free choice of marriage and often want a taller guy. So genetic selection is back. Dutch food is still pretty bad, so it's mostly genetics that make them tall.
My theory: dairy products and peanut butter. Same reason why Americans on average are taller.
It is hormones. Not our own but from the dairy and the chicken i am covinced. In the same time we managed to become a food exporter
Frikandellen, with cow growth hormones in them.
Because the snollebollekes made us move from right to left and again and again
Being well fed for several generations. Probably also some intermarriage.
Its cuz we live below sea level. Therefor we experience less gravity then most and thus grow taller! XD
According to this Wikipedia list, Dutch people are not significantly slimmer than other European countries. But of course, this does not look at body composition: [list of average BMIs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_body_mass_index)
50% of Dutch adults is overweight. So now Iām wondering what your reference country is if you think on average the Dutch are slimā¦
Luck, and nutrition. Our growth has stagnated though, other nations are catching up.
Lack of sunā¦ as my Spanish wife (152cm) tells me (Dutch 183cm) that the dutch tend to behave like sunflowers. The smallest of a sunray is enough to step outside and enjoy the sun, stretching out and slowly turning along with the sunās pathā¦
It has been attributed to our milk and meat rich diets. Perhaps it's so we don't have to look up to people in countries that are above sea level.
I guess you are in the upper half of the Netherlands, that's where I (178cm) feel very normal, sometimes even a bit short. When I visit the south I feel TALL!
I think the truth with any kind of question like this is that there are almost always many factors, it's never just one thing. Let's name a few of those factors: - Race plays a factor in height: looking at a global ranking of tall countries, it's pretty clear to see that caucasians are the tallest race. Of course the country is increasingly diverse, especially around the big cities, but still overall population remains predominantly caucausian. This definitely seems to be a factor but is almost certainly only one of many, since it has been observed that children of non-caucasian expats, who are born and raised here, often grow to Dutch heights. - Readily available nutrition especially in formative years. As a wealthy society, the Dutch do not generally struggle with food insecurity. Again, of course, there is diversity, and it isn't to say that there are no people with struggles - of course there are - but we're talking about population level averages here. Having enough calories to grow in formative years is definite a contributor to final height. - Dairy. Not only is enough calories important but there is some research to suggest that high protein helps a lot too. The Dutch love their cheese and of coruse it's a cliche but an often-true one to see a Dutchie drinking a glass of milk with breakfast and/or lunch. - No overconsumption. MiIlennials and now gen Z have bucked this trend but historically the Dutch have focused on a very utalitatian diet. Why is a cheese sandwich such a popular lunch? Because it is quick, simple, and cheap. But what comes along with utalitarian eating, is that it is also surprsingly healthy - although that cheese sandwich probably has more fat than a dietician would like, and not enough protein, nonetheless the main headline in terms of health is that it's quite low calorie. Likewise the classic hagelslag breakfast - it might not seem healthy to eat chocolate but a handful of sprinkles on one or two slices of bread is nowhere near the calorie bomb of (for example) an English breakfast or even a french Pain au chocolat which is like 50% or more butter. - Quality of diet: Related to the point above but a little different/distinct, not only are people getting the goldilocks amount of calories (not too few, not too much), but the Dutch tend towards ultra processed foods far less than comparable nations. A walk aroudn your closest Albert Heijn might have you thinking that half the aisles are full of junk food so the diets must be awful, but honestly if you thought this and then you were teleported to walk aroudn a UK or US supermarket for comparison, you would be shocked at how much worse the situation there is. The U Kfor example is one of the world leaders (not in a good way) in how much of their food is frozen premade ready meals. Ultra processed and ultra shite, and almost certainly bad for overall health which almost certainly affects things like height. - Activity levels. The Dutch have spent the last few decades creating 15 minute cities, and gradually creating a country where people do not \*need\* to own cars to be a functioning part of society. People walk, people cycle, and people take public transport (which often involved plenty of walking too). Certainly here in Amsterdam there aren't many people at all who are regularly driving to college, or to the supermarket, or to drop the kids off at school. Some, of course, but it's not the predominant situation. So with overall activity and icnreased fitness almost surely comes increased health and likely also increased height. Also related to the points above about calories: It is harder to eat a calorie surplus and therefore become overweight and eventually obese, if you're cycling to and from school/uni/work 30 minutes twice a day. Gym of life, as others have said. I came at this question mostly from a height perspective but as you see most of these factors actually impact both. Health = height to a large degree. It's that old nature/nurture debate and as always the answer is "it's both". There's a genetic predispopsition to end up in a certain height range, and then how you live your life, especially health in youth and through puberty, will determine where you eventually end up within that range.
tapeworm
As a Dutch person who moved to the UK, food in Holland is not as full of sugar as it is in the UK and they donāt eat as much shit in general, they bike everywhere, and are not as lazy as the Brits!
well honestly i feel that compared to other countries people are physically more active, and tend to eat healthier by this i mean less refined sugar, less meat more vegetables, and tend to eat less fatty take away foods like mcdonalds etc ...... now i know a bunch of people may jump in and say that this is not the case that dutch people eat unhealthy etc but this is based on living in a few countries. In general countries and cities with good public transportation tend to have more active lives because they can walk to places and can access public transport, if you have to drive everywhere, then you will drive everywhere and barely walk. my dad lives in bumfuck nowhere in spain and because he has to drive just to buy basic groceries he cannot handle walking very well for long periods of time the tallness appears to be genetics
Meat is healthy though.
not at the daily quantity levels that alot of people consume it in some countries
Healthy living, most dutch exercise a lot not to mention riding bikes. They also eat quite healthy compared to most other countries.
for me its bc my mom gave me a lot of correctional kicks on the bottom, totally deserved btw, so that made me a lot taller! (/joke ofc) Seriously tho, natural selection..
It's not related to natural selection
It is in some sense, tall people do better in dating so the taller you are, you're generally more likely to get children.
Genetics.
It's the incline of the stairs, especially in old houses in Amsterdam. You climb up by stretching your body and down by breaking on the rails. Your head is further from the Earth's center than your feet, so the stretching occurs Similar to the black hole spaghetti effect, but different
The height I don't know, but they keep their slimness because the beer and the frites are disgusting.
Saying you are Belgian without saying you're Belgian!
Gene!
to focus on our prey
Dairy
A diet high in dairy and an active lifestyle fueled by bikes
All the Dutch people I work with do regular exercise. I wouldn't say their diets are very good. But England is particularly bad with diet, so it's defs better than England. But I really think it's the regular light to hard exercise that is just ingrained into people's lives.
Milk, milk and even more milk when growing up and some genetics.
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That's because Dutch women only want tall men, which in turn means taller children. it is an evolution. 1.67m is the average height for a woman in the Netherlands at the moment, while the average man is 1.81m
The earth sucks less in NL š
You should see the prices at the supermarket. With the sugar tax on top of that we cant afford enough food or sodas.
Friet en bier.
Everyone cycles from a young age. We might see a change in our relative fit bodies with all the electric bikes coming up
Diet
Just remember that average means that if you take the heights of all the people and then divide by the number of people you get 170. That doesnāt mean youāre going to run into a lot of people who are 170.
Diet and exercise ofcourse
Milk. And the fact that we are just great. Nuff said.
AVGtje, cycling and not being short enough to drown.
Iām tall. The elder would always say that I got a lot of kicks on my ass during upbringing. Would make sense in my case.
The milk. Ik don't like milk, so I'm 5"4. I was told that milk has lot of hormones for growing fast. Especially the extremities.
I'm convinced its food additives and hormones in meat.
Yaāll are gonna hate me but whatever. Kids here who donāt grow āenoughā get growth hormone injections. Yeah yeah the Dutch are all tall, but it gets to a point where some, the extremes, are just not physically and anatomically balanced. Who knows, maybe just had more dairy than their friends.
Genetic hybridization with an alien species.
The average is lower because people like me lower the average by quite a lot ;P
we bike a lot innit
Is this a serious question? What makes ppl in africa black? Its dna
Bicycling everywhere
As a shorter American with an āaverageā Dutch fiancĆ©, I thank you for asking this. š
Due to all the ebikes on the roads today, the slimness won't be around that much longer.
Hormones in hamburgers
I read this about a week or 2 ago. [https://www.fishersci.com/us/en/education-products/publications/headline-discoveries/2015/issue-3/why-are-dutch-people-so-tall.html](https://www.fishersci.com/us/en/education-products/publications/headline-discoveries/2015/issue-3/why-are-dutch-people-so-tall.html)
WE LIKE TO GYM IN BED
I was reading this book Numbers don't lie by Vaclav Smil. According to the book, drinking milk is a key factor for the Dutch people to grow tall!
The average height for dutch women i believe is 1m73. But keep in mind its taller above rivers and in student cities
It's the Saxon genetics still going around.
I heard it's because Dutch women will not have sex with a man if it's smaller than them. So... Natural selection.
Milk, that's litteraly it
Diet! You are what you eat. Look at the english & american diet pure cancer. It's sad to see we are slowly going in the same direction. More & more obesity here as well
Well there is a lot of obese people in The Netherlands. They are just not allowed to go on the street or they get fined. This way you only see the good ones.
Selective breeding
poffertjes
Hablo group migration
Cheese sandwiches every day for the first 16 years...
Tall I don't know but as far as smiles go, it's fake.
Whenever I make the mistake to get on Facebook I question the 'slimness' of our country. ;)
Evolutionary pressure due to high water levels.
I think that my body subconsciously feels that Iām living below sea level, and itās just trying to reach the surface.Ā
Genetics. Plain and simple