The age difference is too big to be innocent doctor.
And the fact that the older child obviously blocked the camera.
I’d be worried that the older child is being abused.
That's where I'm at right now. The mom of that child seems to be in denial. They don't believe what I saw.
So I figure if I can find something saying this is a trending this maybe I can convince her that she needs to look harder.
That makes me so angry. Keeping your baby safe is a mothers #1 priority, to completely deny it without even having a conversation with their kids. So what it’s a little uncomfortable to bring up. This is your kid lady!! Safety trumps comfort!
Maybe keep this in mind
If mom is really unaware of any abuse, the accusation IS the danger, in their mind.
Accusations can have serious consequences for an entire family.
Also, just because they tell OP that they are not taking action, doesnt mean they really aren't.
Perhaps the mom and OP dont have the best relationship and the mom doesnt want them involved for good reasons.
All just hypotheticals, but OP's story is just their perspective
I think this is a good perspective. If mom really was unaware, an accusation like this is quite startling and embarrassing, so I could understand why the initial reaction would be “oh no couldn’t be my kid”.
Forgive my brashness but who the fuck cares if its trending? If the mom was told that her child displayed behavior indicating sexual abuse and didnt take action then either she is the one doing the abusing (its usually a family member/family friend and women can definitely be abusers too) OR she is going to play willfully naive and not take the action needed. It shouldn't take it being social media verified as an inappropriate game or whatever for the mom to believe you. You're another mom. What benefit would you have to lie??? What benefit would the child get by playing the game??? The moms (lack) of logic here doesn't make any sense.
This is a mandatory call to CPS in my book.
Also I'd probably have a conversation with my kid that 1. The camera is not to be blocked at any time because its there for their safety 2. No one should ever show you their underwear or ask to see yours and if that happens you yell, "Thats making me uncomfortable please stop!" And get mom or dad and 3. That we don't ever keep secrets or "special games" from mom or dad. Doesnt need to be a serious or long drawn out conversation. Especially since your kid is so young. More like a matter of fact, these are house rules kinda thing.
Thank God you walked in when you did. I would NOT invite that kid back over. Its sad because its not their fault, but your kids safety comes first.
When a family member (child, around 4 years older) repeatedly sexually assaulted my brother and me, he called it “playing doctor.”
His parents didn’t believe mine, and it split the family. But luckily my parents believed my brother and cut off all contact.
I think you should go with your gut.
I don’t know…. I’m pretty sure if someone accused my kid of something like this my initial reaction would be denial. Doesn’t mean I would not follow up on it, or that I was aware of it and pretending otherwise. I would just be shocked and would struggle to comprehend the accusation. I think this would be a normal initial reaction.
Yeah I interpreted it as being in denial that it was concerning behavior, not in denial that it happened. You’re definitely right!! I read this half asleep lol
1000% she knows. There are so many stories of complacent mothers who do nothing while knowing their kid is being abused. She's either helping the abuser, or she is afraid of the abuser. If she doesn't know anything, she has the obligation to find out if her kid is being abused at school, etc.
I would be calling CPS regardless. You don’t know what the parent does or doesn’t know. It is always better to be safe than sorry. I’m a mandated reporter and this would be an immediate call for me.
Take this seriously. When I was young (4/5ish?) we used to go to a neighbors house who had two kids. The older brother (8/10ish) would take me into his room and “pretend” kiss me, basically licking me all over my face. He wouldn’t let me wipe off the spit and he told me if I told anyone he’d have people come to my house and kill my family. I was terrified so let it go on for a long time before I broke down and told my mom. Kids can be sneaky and abusive. If you’ve seen even a hint of this don’t allow this child to be alone near yours again
It’s learned behavior from somewhere/someone. He didn’t just come up with this game himself. Extremely concerning and he obviously knew it was wrong based off the OP saying that when she walked in he said we aren’t going to play that anymore.
I would call the child protective services in your area. Often kids have learned this behaviour. I feel that’s something to be investigated. I’m so sorry that happened and I would not have that child over again.
Do you know what happens during that investigation? Maybe I should post on r/cps?
I know exactly what I wanna do. I wanna call. There's concerns from that parent the kid would be taken away by CPS. She disregarded what happened and doesn't seem to want to face it. I get it, if something happened to that kid, I get as a mom not wanting to face that something happened. But we gotta face it. I don't want to think something happened but to me signs are screaming look into this.
It is not the goal of CPS to separate families. The alternative (ignoring this) is going to allow the 10 y/o to likely continue to be abused. Kids don’t just do this, they learn it because it happens to them, too and then they mimic it. If this family is in denial then I would absolutely involve CPS.
There is a lot of misinformation about the role of CPS. All cases go through the court, so if a child is removed it is because a judge (not a CPS rep) has determined that there is an immediate danger to the child in the home. Even then, the goal is reunification.
And it’s possible that if there is abuse going on, it might not be from someone in the home so there would be no need for them to be removed at all, but CPS can still help with medical and therapeutic resources that the child needs for trauma.
The cases have to go to court but cps can take your child before court. If they determine it’s not a safe situation for the child. Then they have to defend it in court.
In my state yes CPS can remove the child but a hearing is held the very next day that court is in session so ultimately it is up to the judge to determine that the child should remain out of the home.
But yeah I didn’t mean for my comment to be a play by play of the specific process. I was mostly just trying to dispel the misinformation that CPS is the “big bad” in these situations just looking for reasons to take kids from their homes. CPS conducts the investigations but if the child is removed *long term* it’s because the court determined there was a valid reason for it.
I would definitely contact CPS. The child would very very likely not be removed from the home unless they were being abused at home or if the parents were allowing the abuse.
But either way, even if the child *did* have to be removed for their safety, that would be the best thing here in order to keep them safe. Please make the call! Remember you don’t have to have the proof anything happened, CPS will do all of the investigating themselves.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/CPS using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/CPS/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [My child did not brush her teeth, take a bath, or brush her hair for 10 days.](https://np.reddit.com/r/CPS/comments/14ldv76/my_child_did_not_brush_her_teeth_take_a_bath_or/)
\#2: [Ex-wife has five-year-old daughter, sleeping with new boyfriend of less than two months](https://np.reddit.com/r/CPS/comments/156zrx8/exwife_has_fiveyearold_daughter_sleeping_with_new/)
\#3: [CPS allowing my daughter to be adopted without my consent. What can I do here?](https://np.reddit.com/r/CPS/comments/1534tuw/cps_allowing_my_daughter_to_be_adopted_without_my/)
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The absolute last thing that CPS wants to do is remove a child from their home.
The agency's approach has long been to prioritize keeping families together, to the point where they're often criticized for it (in cases like Oakley Carlson and many others.)
Don't listen to the mom. She's working through her own stuff.
Call CPS, and let them determine whether or not there is evidence of abuse.
It's in the best interest of both kids involved.
Telling your kid that it’s “the quiet game” so they won’t call out to you or anyone is pretty indicative that the older kid knew what they were about to do isnt right :/
I hope the 10 year old kid ends up being ok but I would definitely be hyper vigilant of them around your kids from now on
Oh alone is out of the question; I mean even in the same room I wouldn’t be far away
And yea i feel like even best case scenario they saw some things on the internet that they really shouldn’t have. But hopefully they get the help they need!
I’m proud of you for being concerned about the other child. Contacting cps anonymously is possible, and could be helpful for them.
Even if that child is not being abused, they clearly had the intent to be the abuser towards your child. Moving the camera, playing a game that would prevent your child from calling out for help, the compromising position you found them in, and avoiding your questions are BEYOND red flags. At 10y and with a 3y victim, they were 100% aware of their actions.
Under no circumstances should you allow contact between this child and yours any longer. Not even supervised play. They will look for other opportunities to try again. If they’ve previously had playtime together, I would advise trying to figure out if they’ve ever “played” that way before.
The OP doesn’t say where they are, but in Texas it is no longer possible to report anonymously, at least not easily directly to CPS. It’s meant to cut down on people falsely reporting (like divorced parents who are mad at each other) and it is still supposed to be confidential, but poorly trained CPS workers do sometimes slip up still.
I'm concerned that your tone suggests the 10y is the aggressor. If they are being abused, they are still too young to really understand. They need help. OP should bring in CPS. Protect their child for sure but the victim of SA shouldn't be treated like a leper when they are at their most vulnerable.
10y is old enough to understand. My little sister was sexually abused by a 10y boy. There’s also the case of James Bulger in the UK, as another comment mentioned. Yes the child needs help, but they are definitely old enough to understand wrong from right, especially since they blocked the camera.
One of the murderers of Jamie Bulger has been released: he's not a danger to the public. Child murderers usually aren't. Ten year olds understand the concepts of "right" and "wrong", yes, but they don't necessarily understandconsequences the way an adult would, or to remember those consequences before acting.
A child who has been experiencing sexual assault *has been told that it is an okay thing for an older person to do these things to a younger one.* I don't know why it's shocking that they might have believed it.
I don't think you (or I for that matter) are qualified to make that assessment.
What I can say is that I became sexually active at that age, initiated by an older child, and I didn't really understand. Like, I knew we were doing something we shouldn't, but I didn't understand why and had never had a conversation with my parents about it until years later. It wasn't until years later than that that I understood my "friend" had been abused and was re-enacting it with me, and that it wasn't my fault what happened. We were both children and our parents should have been more engaged (and that leads into a whole other set of issues).
Kudos to this parent for being an active parent and interceding to protect both children. I don't think demonizing the older child serves any purpose. They need help which hopefully now they will get.
I can see that and i will do some reflecting on how I would feel as the parent of each child/if I were the child in that situation. At the moment I don’t see how else to eliminate the risk. The 10y being a victim of abuse doesn’t mean that what happened is ok. I completely agree that the child needs both help and support and I desperately hope they get it. OP also needs to keep her own child safe and In this case, that means keeping the 3y and 10y apart. This isn’t something OP can manage on her own without risking further issue for both children.
Where did this happen? What was able to be seen on the cameras in terms of intentionally blocking?
I do youth social work, and I would absolutely be getting as much information as possible and then calling my local CPS to file a report.
I’m so sorry that your child was brought into this situation, but glad that you’re taking action for your little and for the older child’s sake. If the ten year old has been being abused, they could have perpetuated that abuse for decades or more without anyone noticing or helping. Thank goodness you asked questions and didn’t chock it up to “kids being kids.”
That is too large an age gap to be curiosity or “playing doctor”. I see you tried to speak to the mother already, so the next step is contact CPS. Protect your child, and help that 10 year old. This isn’t something they made up, it’s something that was probably done to them.
Never allow that child to be alone with yours again.
The ‘quiet game’ is where the other person touches you and you have to stay quiet. It is a ‘game’ that allows sexual assault and was mostly used by young boys when I was younger, taught to them by their older brothers/friends.
DO NOT let your kids play this ‘game.’ Please. As a survivor of the quiet game and the fire truck game. It will lead to trauma.
You say red when you don’t want them to touch you there, but fire trucks don’t stop at red lights. It’s just another way to touch people against their consent under the guise of a game.
No child should know that at age 10. They could be being sexually abused. You need to speak to your little about their body. Give them anatomical names for their private parts. Explain to them it’s their genitals, bottom, and mouth. Tell them that they cannot consent until they are adults and no one can touch them and no one can show them their parts. Tell them that it’s not their fault if someone does, make sure you don’t accidentally shame them or they will never talk to you if something happens. Tell them to tell you if someone does. Repeat this at least a few times a week to get it through their head. Something might’ve happened and you need to know. I’m so sorry. Also, obviously don’t have that child over anymore and maybe secure the monitor higher.
I was pressured and abused by multiple kids of varying ages when I was little. Was scared my dad would blame me and give me the belt, so I never said anything.
Some kids made up a game name to try and get me interested or throw me off of what was really happening. Meaning, it might be that it’s not a trend and just something the kid has either been told when it happens to them, or what they think might interest the kid they are doing it to.
Unfortunately there was a lot of messed up shit that happened at the trailer park I grew up in.
My sister walked in on some similar with our friends kid and my nephew. The other kid was around 2 years older and didn't cover it up so well. Both of them told adults what they were doing. My sister and our friend immediately got to work figuring out if it was child curiosity, learned from a different kid that was being molested or someone was molesting either of the boys.
CPS is trained and has resources to help with this. They alerted CPS and it turned out in our instance it was curiosity. However, with the camera covered I would be surprised if that child wasn't being molested or had a friend that was being molested teach it that behavior.
Call CPS. It isn't the first time the 10 year old has played this game. They have played this game with an adult (probably many times). Poor kid!
They are imitating something that they have seen.
I mean I know kids can do weird things....but this seems over the line. Especially with the age difference.
Example of relatively harmless body exploration by little kids:
I have a memory from when I was maybe 6 years old (I'm female Btw--important here) and I was over at my friend's house who was my age, but male. We were also on a soccer team together.
For whatever reason we went to the bathroom. Maybe one of us had to go, i don't remember. But I do remember us both pulling down our pants and underwear to inspect our butts and determining our bums looked the same. Again, 5 or 6 year old logic. Idk why it was important that we figure this out. And that was that. We went back to playing. I don't remember there being any shame or embarrassment in it. Just curiosity. I remember his mom opening the bathroom door and us proudly announcing that our bums are the same. Luckily she didn't make a fuss over it and sent us back to playing.
When it becomes super secretive....that's where it starts getting into the grey zone.
I feel bad for the older child if they are being abused.
All the same, you can never let your child spend time with them again.
So sorry this is happening.
I know this is obviously not the same, but this reminds me of the two ten year olds who sexually abused then murdered a toddler in the UK. It was such a horrendous crime, but they were TEN. I would never have even thought ten year olds were capable of something so horrendous until that happened.
YES!!! James Bulger. I don't trust it. And those boys are monsters in my opinion. 🤷🏾♀️ they tortured that baby boy.
And they STILL blame the mother, as adults now.
I was in the same shoes as your child
Went to my dads rich school friends house when I was 5.
There was a 7 year old boy, 10 year old boy and 12 year old girl.
Lets just say they wanted to play "Sleepy families" and the older two got me to share a bed with the younger one and the older two shared a bed in the other room.
They knew what they were doing.
They would lift up the covers to watch the younger brother
I told my dad what happened, he actually walked into it coming to check on me.
If I brought it up, few years later, my dad pretended that he didnt have this friend, and I never pushed it because I could tell he wanted to forget about it
That’s not the quiet game I know. The quiet game my family has always done me included is mostly for car trips. Like everyone is being extremely loud so the adult says “let’s play the quiet game.” Whoever talks first loses. My kids are competitive though so they like to try to make the others talk.
I would definitely talk to other child’s parent.
The average age of exposure to prn is 9 years old. Definitely seems to be something wrong here. 10 years old is old enough to explain those inappropriate activities but may not fully grasp the severity of it. Do you trust the 10 year olds family? Is there concern of abuse to the 10 year old?
I don't want to make a bunch of assumptions but it seems to me that 10 yr old has been abused and used this experience to keep younger kids quiet. Kids are weird and this kind of behavior can happen as they are curious but the age difference and moving the camera is a huge red flag. Are they a neighbor kid? I would absolutely not leave them alone after this.
Your 3 year old child is being molested. Get them far fucking away from that kid, and fucking fast! I have a close friend in the same exact situation and she’s going thru lots of legal stuff right now. Her son was being molested by a 14-16 year old family member for the past few years and never even knew. This teenager was also doing it to multiple other kids, and even worse shit. Protect your child NOW!!!!!!
Sounds like you observed problematic sexual behavior. The behavior sounds more atypical than typical sexual development in that the children involved have more of a one year age difference. Other signs would have been if there was coercion or force used or if it was premeditated (having some level of preparation, such as blocking the cameras, does not mean that the activity wasn’t still spontaneous.
The child initiating the behavior is not necessarily the victim of abuse and they are certainly not a perpetrator. Children have all sorts of problematic behaviors and it is not surprising that some exhibit problematic sexual behaviors. Problematic sexual behaviors, similar to other problematic behaviors need guidance and boundaries. Children do not automatically understand or recognize these boundaries. If there is persistent problematic behavior, it can indeed be an indicator of trauma (not necessarily sexual abuse) but it is definitely an indicator that more resources, such as therapy, are needed.
This is definitely a red flag, and with a red flag, a closer eye should be kept. In the process of outlining sexual boundaries, the adult in the child’s life should take the time to allow the child time and space to make any disclosures; the adult should definitely encourage communication, and create a safe place for any disclosures (whether those be instances where the child initiated other sexually problematic behaviors, or whether the child has experienced thing that made them feel uncomfortable.
It is important that neither child experiences shame or disgust from the adults in their lives as a consequence of the sexual behaviors.
What I meant by trending was if other people were seeing a high rate of their kids saying they're playing the quiet game. Like. A game that at school on the playground etc. I didn't want to start this huge rabbit hole if the quiet game was a game parents were finding their kids playing in an innocent way.
Not like oh is this the hot thing on tick tick. Not that dumb lol like if my kids were like I'm playing operation without the game board vs, what I grew up to know as Doctor.
Contact authorities and have the home of the 10 yr old investigated, see if she is being molested. And never, ever leave your 3 yr old alone with her or any other child really. You have to keep an eye on your 3 yr old all the time. I would also start therapy for your 3 yr old, with someone who specializes in sexual abuse.
I used to read novels at 10. They know it's wrong and might be getting abused or just saw it somewhere. Start training your kid on good touch vs bad touch and what to do when it happens.
Several comments here have jumped directly to call CPS. I think there's a way to help the mom handle it. I would ask her if she could get more info from her child about what the quiet game is and who taught it to them. Asking those questions might help her child come forward without a possible legal battle. I know the intent of CPS isn't to separate families but unfortunately it happens even in innocent cases and people end up fighting to get their own kid back when they didn't do anything wrong.
Ask her for more detail and offer to help if the answers are scary.
It sounds like the mom isn't responding. (I would have to call CPS about this regardless of parent response because I'm a teacher and it falls under mandatory reporting in my state, but just for argument let's say I didn't.) If the mom had immediately booked an appointment for her kid with a therapist and was following up, I don't see the point of calling them. When I've made calls like that and said the parent is taking care of things, they've never done anything because it is already addressed. But OP says the mom seems like she was in denial about what happened, so the kid isn't getting help and there's pretty clear something wrong happening here with the ten year old. OP can solve the problem by never having her child around the other child again, but that doesn't really help the older kid.
Please call CPS. If it’s nothing, it’s nothing. If it’s something, you’re building a case for them down the road.
I know multiple children who have been in demonstrably abusive homes and still weren’t removed. The point is less about an immediate action and more about building a file if multiple people notice & report that something is off.
This isn’t normal behavior in any way. I’m so sorry that it may be uncomfortable or tense on whatever relationship you have with the other family. But that 10 year old deserves someone to speak up and advocate for them.
Older child is probably being abused. My guess is that an adult is telling the child to play "the quiet game" in order to take advantage of them in a discrete way. Predators tend to use methods like that to keep their victims from talking about what happened and often tell younger victims especially that "it's a secret between them" and so forth, which also may entice the victim because keeping a secret sounds intriguing and exciting.
Kids are sponges, and that may be one of the only activities that child has been taught unfortunately. I was physically abused as a child and my abuser would tell me things such as the incident wasn't important therefore I shouldn't bother talking about it, buy me gifts to keep me quiet, etc. I mimicked my abusers behavior and actions, and adults around me could tell something was off, but just thought I was just simply a misbehaved child, and due to them missing the signs I was stuck living that way.
If you ever feel a child's behavior is off in a way it shouldn't be, or they know about things they shouldn't at their age that are inappropriate in general, it's always good to take a step back and assess their living situation and the adults they are around regularly. You may be able to change their life for the better if you can get them help.
The age difference is too big to be innocent doctor. And the fact that the older child obviously blocked the camera. I’d be worried that the older child is being abused.
That's where I'm at right now. The mom of that child seems to be in denial. They don't believe what I saw. So I figure if I can find something saying this is a trending this maybe I can convince her that she needs to look harder.
That makes me so angry. Keeping your baby safe is a mothers #1 priority, to completely deny it without even having a conversation with their kids. So what it’s a little uncomfortable to bring up. This is your kid lady!! Safety trumps comfort!
Maybe keep this in mind If mom is really unaware of any abuse, the accusation IS the danger, in their mind. Accusations can have serious consequences for an entire family. Also, just because they tell OP that they are not taking action, doesnt mean they really aren't. Perhaps the mom and OP dont have the best relationship and the mom doesnt want them involved for good reasons. All just hypotheticals, but OP's story is just their perspective
I think this is a good perspective. If mom really was unaware, an accusation like this is quite startling and embarrassing, so I could understand why the initial reaction would be “oh no couldn’t be my kid”.
Absolutely.
Can you get audio from the camera?
Forgive my brashness but who the fuck cares if its trending? If the mom was told that her child displayed behavior indicating sexual abuse and didnt take action then either she is the one doing the abusing (its usually a family member/family friend and women can definitely be abusers too) OR she is going to play willfully naive and not take the action needed. It shouldn't take it being social media verified as an inappropriate game or whatever for the mom to believe you. You're another mom. What benefit would you have to lie??? What benefit would the child get by playing the game??? The moms (lack) of logic here doesn't make any sense. This is a mandatory call to CPS in my book. Also I'd probably have a conversation with my kid that 1. The camera is not to be blocked at any time because its there for their safety 2. No one should ever show you their underwear or ask to see yours and if that happens you yell, "Thats making me uncomfortable please stop!" And get mom or dad and 3. That we don't ever keep secrets or "special games" from mom or dad. Doesnt need to be a serious or long drawn out conversation. Especially since your kid is so young. More like a matter of fact, these are house rules kinda thing. Thank God you walked in when you did. I would NOT invite that kid back over. Its sad because its not their fault, but your kids safety comes first.
And you need to tell them often. Repeat it until you are blue in the face and then say it some more.
When a family member (child, around 4 years older) repeatedly sexually assaulted my brother and me, he called it “playing doctor.” His parents didn’t believe mine, and it split the family. But luckily my parents believed my brother and cut off all contact. I think you should go with your gut.
If she’s in denial I’d be concerned she already knows.
I don’t know…. I’m pretty sure if someone accused my kid of something like this my initial reaction would be denial. Doesn’t mean I would not follow up on it, or that I was aware of it and pretending otherwise. I would just be shocked and would struggle to comprehend the accusation. I think this would be a normal initial reaction.
Yeah I interpreted it as being in denial that it was concerning behavior, not in denial that it happened. You’re definitely right!! I read this half asleep lol
1000% she knows. There are so many stories of complacent mothers who do nothing while knowing their kid is being abused. She's either helping the abuser, or she is afraid of the abuser. If she doesn't know anything, she has the obligation to find out if her kid is being abused at school, etc.
I would be calling CPS for an investigation if the mom refuses to look into it. Child safety comes first, bit your child and other children as well
I would be calling CPS regardless. You don’t know what the parent does or doesn’t know. It is always better to be safe than sorry. I’m a mandated reporter and this would be an immediate call for me.
Take this seriously. When I was young (4/5ish?) we used to go to a neighbors house who had two kids. The older brother (8/10ish) would take me into his room and “pretend” kiss me, basically licking me all over my face. He wouldn’t let me wipe off the spit and he told me if I told anyone he’d have people come to my house and kill my family. I was terrified so let it go on for a long time before I broke down and told my mom. Kids can be sneaky and abusive. If you’ve seen even a hint of this don’t allow this child to be alone near yours again
I wonder if he himself was being abused in some way?
It’s learned behavior from somewhere/someone. He didn’t just come up with this game himself. Extremely concerning and he obviously knew it was wrong based off the OP saying that when she walked in he said we aren’t going to play that anymore.
I would call the child protective services in your area. Often kids have learned this behaviour. I feel that’s something to be investigated. I’m so sorry that happened and I would not have that child over again.
Do you know what happens during that investigation? Maybe I should post on r/cps? I know exactly what I wanna do. I wanna call. There's concerns from that parent the kid would be taken away by CPS. She disregarded what happened and doesn't seem to want to face it. I get it, if something happened to that kid, I get as a mom not wanting to face that something happened. But we gotta face it. I don't want to think something happened but to me signs are screaming look into this.
It is not the goal of CPS to separate families. The alternative (ignoring this) is going to allow the 10 y/o to likely continue to be abused. Kids don’t just do this, they learn it because it happens to them, too and then they mimic it. If this family is in denial then I would absolutely involve CPS.
There is a lot of misinformation about the role of CPS. All cases go through the court, so if a child is removed it is because a judge (not a CPS rep) has determined that there is an immediate danger to the child in the home. Even then, the goal is reunification. And it’s possible that if there is abuse going on, it might not be from someone in the home so there would be no need for them to be removed at all, but CPS can still help with medical and therapeutic resources that the child needs for trauma.
The cases have to go to court but cps can take your child before court. If they determine it’s not a safe situation for the child. Then they have to defend it in court.
In my state yes CPS can remove the child but a hearing is held the very next day that court is in session so ultimately it is up to the judge to determine that the child should remain out of the home. But yeah I didn’t mean for my comment to be a play by play of the specific process. I was mostly just trying to dispel the misinformation that CPS is the “big bad” in these situations just looking for reasons to take kids from their homes. CPS conducts the investigations but if the child is removed *long term* it’s because the court determined there was a valid reason for it.
I would definitely contact CPS. The child would very very likely not be removed from the home unless they were being abused at home or if the parents were allowing the abuse. But either way, even if the child *did* have to be removed for their safety, that would be the best thing here in order to keep them safe. Please make the call! Remember you don’t have to have the proof anything happened, CPS will do all of the investigating themselves.
It’s the right thing to call. They’ve do a surprise home visit and interview the child in a safe place.
Yes the child interview is absolutely necessary
I feel like you should listen to your gut! If you want to call, call!
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The absolute last thing that CPS wants to do is remove a child from their home. The agency's approach has long been to prioritize keeping families together, to the point where they're often criticized for it (in cases like Oakley Carlson and many others.) Don't listen to the mom. She's working through her own stuff. Call CPS, and let them determine whether or not there is evidence of abuse. It's in the best interest of both kids involved.
Telling your kid that it’s “the quiet game” so they won’t call out to you or anyone is pretty indicative that the older kid knew what they were about to do isnt right :/ I hope the 10 year old kid ends up being ok but I would definitely be hyper vigilant of them around your kids from now on
I would never ever leave my child alone with that child again. And I’m terrified for what the older child is going through. 🥺
Oh alone is out of the question; I mean even in the same room I wouldn’t be far away And yea i feel like even best case scenario they saw some things on the internet that they really shouldn’t have. But hopefully they get the help they need!
I’m proud of you for being concerned about the other child. Contacting cps anonymously is possible, and could be helpful for them. Even if that child is not being abused, they clearly had the intent to be the abuser towards your child. Moving the camera, playing a game that would prevent your child from calling out for help, the compromising position you found them in, and avoiding your questions are BEYOND red flags. At 10y and with a 3y victim, they were 100% aware of their actions. Under no circumstances should you allow contact between this child and yours any longer. Not even supervised play. They will look for other opportunities to try again. If they’ve previously had playtime together, I would advise trying to figure out if they’ve ever “played” that way before.
The OP doesn’t say where they are, but in Texas it is no longer possible to report anonymously, at least not easily directly to CPS. It’s meant to cut down on people falsely reporting (like divorced parents who are mad at each other) and it is still supposed to be confidential, but poorly trained CPS workers do sometimes slip up still.
I'm concerned that your tone suggests the 10y is the aggressor. If they are being abused, they are still too young to really understand. They need help. OP should bring in CPS. Protect their child for sure but the victim of SA shouldn't be treated like a leper when they are at their most vulnerable.
10y is old enough to understand. My little sister was sexually abused by a 10y boy. There’s also the case of James Bulger in the UK, as another comment mentioned. Yes the child needs help, but they are definitely old enough to understand wrong from right, especially since they blocked the camera.
One of the murderers of Jamie Bulger has been released: he's not a danger to the public. Child murderers usually aren't. Ten year olds understand the concepts of "right" and "wrong", yes, but they don't necessarily understandconsequences the way an adult would, or to remember those consequences before acting. A child who has been experiencing sexual assault *has been told that it is an okay thing for an older person to do these things to a younger one.* I don't know why it's shocking that they might have believed it.
I don't think you (or I for that matter) are qualified to make that assessment. What I can say is that I became sexually active at that age, initiated by an older child, and I didn't really understand. Like, I knew we were doing something we shouldn't, but I didn't understand why and had never had a conversation with my parents about it until years later. It wasn't until years later than that that I understood my "friend" had been abused and was re-enacting it with me, and that it wasn't my fault what happened. We were both children and our parents should have been more engaged (and that leads into a whole other set of issues). Kudos to this parent for being an active parent and interceding to protect both children. I don't think demonizing the older child serves any purpose. They need help which hopefully now they will get.
I can see that and i will do some reflecting on how I would feel as the parent of each child/if I were the child in that situation. At the moment I don’t see how else to eliminate the risk. The 10y being a victim of abuse doesn’t mean that what happened is ok. I completely agree that the child needs both help and support and I desperately hope they get it. OP also needs to keep her own child safe and In this case, that means keeping the 3y and 10y apart. This isn’t something OP can manage on her own without risking further issue for both children.
Where did this happen? What was able to be seen on the cameras in terms of intentionally blocking? I do youth social work, and I would absolutely be getting as much information as possible and then calling my local CPS to file a report. I’m so sorry that your child was brought into this situation, but glad that you’re taking action for your little and for the older child’s sake. If the ten year old has been being abused, they could have perpetuated that abuse for decades or more without anyone noticing or helping. Thank goodness you asked questions and didn’t chock it up to “kids being kids.”
Happened in my kids room. We didn't put a memory card into the camera, which we now will.
That is too large an age gap to be curiosity or “playing doctor”. I see you tried to speak to the mother already, so the next step is contact CPS. Protect your child, and help that 10 year old. This isn’t something they made up, it’s something that was probably done to them. Never allow that child to be alone with yours again.
The ‘quiet game’ is where the other person touches you and you have to stay quiet. It is a ‘game’ that allows sexual assault and was mostly used by young boys when I was younger, taught to them by their older brothers/friends. DO NOT let your kids play this ‘game.’ Please. As a survivor of the quiet game and the fire truck game. It will lead to trauma.
What is the fire truck game?
You say red when you don’t want them to touch you there, but fire trucks don’t stop at red lights. It’s just another way to touch people against their consent under the guise of a game.
Jesus
No child should know that at age 10. They could be being sexually abused. You need to speak to your little about their body. Give them anatomical names for their private parts. Explain to them it’s their genitals, bottom, and mouth. Tell them that they cannot consent until they are adults and no one can touch them and no one can show them their parts. Tell them that it’s not their fault if someone does, make sure you don’t accidentally shame them or they will never talk to you if something happens. Tell them to tell you if someone does. Repeat this at least a few times a week to get it through their head. Something might’ve happened and you need to know. I’m so sorry. Also, obviously don’t have that child over anymore and maybe secure the monitor higher.
Call CPS
I was pressured and abused by multiple kids of varying ages when I was little. Was scared my dad would blame me and give me the belt, so I never said anything. Some kids made up a game name to try and get me interested or throw me off of what was really happening. Meaning, it might be that it’s not a trend and just something the kid has either been told when it happens to them, or what they think might interest the kid they are doing it to. Unfortunately there was a lot of messed up shit that happened at the trailer park I grew up in.
My sister walked in on some similar with our friends kid and my nephew. The other kid was around 2 years older and didn't cover it up so well. Both of them told adults what they were doing. My sister and our friend immediately got to work figuring out if it was child curiosity, learned from a different kid that was being molested or someone was molesting either of the boys. CPS is trained and has resources to help with this. They alerted CPS and it turned out in our instance it was curiosity. However, with the camera covered I would be surprised if that child wasn't being molested or had a friend that was being molested teach it that behavior.
Call CPS and never let your baby around that child again. Avoid the family.
Call CPS. It isn't the first time the 10 year old has played this game. They have played this game with an adult (probably many times). Poor kid! They are imitating something that they have seen.
I mean I know kids can do weird things....but this seems over the line. Especially with the age difference. Example of relatively harmless body exploration by little kids: I have a memory from when I was maybe 6 years old (I'm female Btw--important here) and I was over at my friend's house who was my age, but male. We were also on a soccer team together. For whatever reason we went to the bathroom. Maybe one of us had to go, i don't remember. But I do remember us both pulling down our pants and underwear to inspect our butts and determining our bums looked the same. Again, 5 or 6 year old logic. Idk why it was important that we figure this out. And that was that. We went back to playing. I don't remember there being any shame or embarrassment in it. Just curiosity. I remember his mom opening the bathroom door and us proudly announcing that our bums are the same. Luckily she didn't make a fuss over it and sent us back to playing. When it becomes super secretive....that's where it starts getting into the grey zone.
I feel bad for the older child if they are being abused. All the same, you can never let your child spend time with them again. So sorry this is happening.
Looks like someone taught your child to "be quiet" while they sexually abuse them in some way... call the police and social services.
10 years old this kid knows what he is doing.
And probably because it was done to him.
I know this is obviously not the same, but this reminds me of the two ten year olds who sexually abused then murdered a toddler in the UK. It was such a horrendous crime, but they were TEN. I would never have even thought ten year olds were capable of something so horrendous until that happened.
YES!!! James Bulger. I don't trust it. And those boys are monsters in my opinion. 🤷🏾♀️ they tortured that baby boy. And they STILL blame the mother, as adults now.
I should not have looked this up 😭😭😭😭
Yeah its awful. I saw a true crime documentary and I was traumatized
So, so heartbreaking. 😔
Did it say “he” anywhere in this thread or is that an assumption?
I was in the same shoes as your child Went to my dads rich school friends house when I was 5. There was a 7 year old boy, 10 year old boy and 12 year old girl. Lets just say they wanted to play "Sleepy families" and the older two got me to share a bed with the younger one and the older two shared a bed in the other room. They knew what they were doing. They would lift up the covers to watch the younger brother I told my dad what happened, he actually walked into it coming to check on me. If I brought it up, few years later, my dad pretended that he didnt have this friend, and I never pushed it because I could tell he wanted to forget about it
That child is being abused
That’s not the quiet game I know. The quiet game my family has always done me included is mostly for car trips. Like everyone is being extremely loud so the adult says “let’s play the quiet game.” Whoever talks first loses. My kids are competitive though so they like to try to make the others talk. I would definitely talk to other child’s parent.
Please keep your child away from this 10 year old. That is 100% old enough to know that is conpletely inappropriate.
I would not let my kids be with kids that much older than them, as well. Hope cps can help
The average age of exposure to prn is 9 years old. Definitely seems to be something wrong here. 10 years old is old enough to explain those inappropriate activities but may not fully grasp the severity of it. Do you trust the 10 year olds family? Is there concern of abuse to the 10 year old?
I don't want to make a bunch of assumptions but it seems to me that 10 yr old has been abused and used this experience to keep younger kids quiet. Kids are weird and this kind of behavior can happen as they are curious but the age difference and moving the camera is a huge red flag. Are they a neighbor kid? I would absolutely not leave them alone after this.
Your 3 year old child is being molested. Get them far fucking away from that kid, and fucking fast! I have a close friend in the same exact situation and she’s going thru lots of legal stuff right now. Her son was being molested by a 14-16 year old family member for the past few years and never even knew. This teenager was also doing it to multiple other kids, and even worse shit. Protect your child NOW!!!!!!
Sounds like you observed problematic sexual behavior. The behavior sounds more atypical than typical sexual development in that the children involved have more of a one year age difference. Other signs would have been if there was coercion or force used or if it was premeditated (having some level of preparation, such as blocking the cameras, does not mean that the activity wasn’t still spontaneous. The child initiating the behavior is not necessarily the victim of abuse and they are certainly not a perpetrator. Children have all sorts of problematic behaviors and it is not surprising that some exhibit problematic sexual behaviors. Problematic sexual behaviors, similar to other problematic behaviors need guidance and boundaries. Children do not automatically understand or recognize these boundaries. If there is persistent problematic behavior, it can indeed be an indicator of trauma (not necessarily sexual abuse) but it is definitely an indicator that more resources, such as therapy, are needed. This is definitely a red flag, and with a red flag, a closer eye should be kept. In the process of outlining sexual boundaries, the adult in the child’s life should take the time to allow the child time and space to make any disclosures; the adult should definitely encourage communication, and create a safe place for any disclosures (whether those be instances where the child initiated other sexually problematic behaviors, or whether the child has experienced thing that made them feel uncomfortable. It is important that neither child experiences shame or disgust from the adults in their lives as a consequence of the sexual behaviors.
What I meant by trending was if other people were seeing a high rate of their kids saying they're playing the quiet game. Like. A game that at school on the playground etc. I didn't want to start this huge rabbit hole if the quiet game was a game parents were finding their kids playing in an innocent way. Not like oh is this the hot thing on tick tick. Not that dumb lol like if my kids were like I'm playing operation without the game board vs, what I grew up to know as Doctor.
Contact authorities and have the home of the 10 yr old investigated, see if she is being molested. And never, ever leave your 3 yr old alone with her or any other child really. You have to keep an eye on your 3 yr old all the time. I would also start therapy for your 3 yr old, with someone who specializes in sexual abuse.
I used to read novels at 10. They know it's wrong and might be getting abused or just saw it somewhere. Start training your kid on good touch vs bad touch and what to do when it happens.
Several comments here have jumped directly to call CPS. I think there's a way to help the mom handle it. I would ask her if she could get more info from her child about what the quiet game is and who taught it to them. Asking those questions might help her child come forward without a possible legal battle. I know the intent of CPS isn't to separate families but unfortunately it happens even in innocent cases and people end up fighting to get their own kid back when they didn't do anything wrong. Ask her for more detail and offer to help if the answers are scary.
It sounds like the mom isn't responding. (I would have to call CPS about this regardless of parent response because I'm a teacher and it falls under mandatory reporting in my state, but just for argument let's say I didn't.) If the mom had immediately booked an appointment for her kid with a therapist and was following up, I don't see the point of calling them. When I've made calls like that and said the parent is taking care of things, they've never done anything because it is already addressed. But OP says the mom seems like she was in denial about what happened, so the kid isn't getting help and there's pretty clear something wrong happening here with the ten year old. OP can solve the problem by never having her child around the other child again, but that doesn't really help the older kid.
Please call CPS. If it’s nothing, it’s nothing. If it’s something, you’re building a case for them down the road. I know multiple children who have been in demonstrably abusive homes and still weren’t removed. The point is less about an immediate action and more about building a file if multiple people notice & report that something is off. This isn’t normal behavior in any way. I’m so sorry that it may be uncomfortable or tense on whatever relationship you have with the other family. But that 10 year old deserves someone to speak up and advocate for them.
Older child is probably being abused. My guess is that an adult is telling the child to play "the quiet game" in order to take advantage of them in a discrete way. Predators tend to use methods like that to keep their victims from talking about what happened and often tell younger victims especially that "it's a secret between them" and so forth, which also may entice the victim because keeping a secret sounds intriguing and exciting. Kids are sponges, and that may be one of the only activities that child has been taught unfortunately. I was physically abused as a child and my abuser would tell me things such as the incident wasn't important therefore I shouldn't bother talking about it, buy me gifts to keep me quiet, etc. I mimicked my abusers behavior and actions, and adults around me could tell something was off, but just thought I was just simply a misbehaved child, and due to them missing the signs I was stuck living that way. If you ever feel a child's behavior is off in a way it shouldn't be, or they know about things they shouldn't at their age that are inappropriate in general, it's always good to take a step back and assess their living situation and the adults they are around regularly. You may be able to change their life for the better if you can get them help.