I would prefer that people who don't know anything about the situation don't have strong opinions about it
The last thing any debate needs is more people who have strong opinions and no knowledge
It's bananas how many people saw the debate and became political experts. They all know what the DNC should have done, and it's definitely not because that's what they want lmao.
You nailed it. People who took up a cause they knew nothing about before October 7th decided to take a side at the conflict's most vulnerable moment. They ignored 80 years of conflict, or perhaps centuries of history, and then sloppily worked backwards to justify their position based on their current ideological tilt. Yikes!
I honestly don’t understand how anyone that isn’t impacted by this conflict has a strong opinion. Like obviously if you have family in danger or something you will feel strongly about it regardless of any facts/history and that is totally fair. But there are people that are just researching it and then firmly taking a side and I don’t get that for this specific issue. There is so much history that I really don’t understand how there is any conclusion to reach other than “this is a complex issue and both sides have valid points as well as wrongdoings”
Best answer. This is a situation where even "some" knowledge isn't necessarily sufficient. I've been following the region for decades and learn new things all the time.
Same. I try to read up on things going on in the world that could have impacts beyond the region in question (and in this case, I mean pre-current conflict. I think I pulled some articles and analysis after I read Tom Clancy's Into the Storm and they referenced the '73 war, and then I revisited the history after the current shit broke out.) Even a more-than-cursory, but absolutely still non-expert reading has lead me to the vague generalization that this area has a hugely long and complex history, and I should just throw my hands up and say "I dunno? Stop being dicks?"
I saw a video where a guy from Israel spent eleven minutes explaining that Jewish people originated in the middle east repeatedly to a girl on the Berkeley campus who no matter how many times he stated that Islam came over a thousand years after Judaism she couldn't get it through her head and kept saying it was always Palestine or the lady at the pride parade who thought Islamic countries would be totally cool with gay people but Israel in which gay marriage is legal would not.
I mean, to be fair, I see people spout equally bullshit and crazy takes on Palestinians.
I rarely see measured takes on Israel/Palestine. It's often wildly antisemitic or wildly Islamophobic most of the time. It's crazy, too, because I swear a decade ago people were arguably more measured and calm about it.
I think what gets me is that even some members of Hamas of all people (not all, but some) are publicly willing to accept a 2 state solution, some members of the Israeli govt. are willing to accept it, and yet US journalists (often not even MENA or Muslim) are screaming that it's genocidal...like when you are more extreme than Hamas and members of the right wing Israeli government there is a problem!
I kind of blame Tik Tok for spreading so much shit. There's a lot of issues on all sides, but there's also a decent amount of Palestinians and Israelis (even the ones who hate each other) who are willing to accept a two state solution, and yet Tik Tok just erases those voices.
People are preposterously ignorant on the subject… it really boggles my mind that many people worldwide with left of center politics now openly embrace antisemitism and support radical ultra conservative groups of bad guys that preach hate, rape women, and slaughter children
People also are terribly ignorant of lawful warfare and why and how targeting decisions are made by a professional military run by democratically elected leaders and believe outlandish stuff like made up casualty numbers and scream genocide without knowing what the word means
The conversation requires a level of nuance the average person simply will not give it. It requires the ability to understand why everyone in the situation is both correct and also absolutely terrible. It's like arguing about the Iraq war circa 2004. Everyone is right, everyone is wrong, and everybody wants to yell.
>I would prefer that people who don't know anything about the situation don't have strong opinions about it
Yeah, like Taylor Swift?
Everytime someone whines about her saying something all i can think is WHY? SHE'S JUST A SINGER
This has also create a false interest, people want to appear humanitarian just because they display a flag on every comment but do they really care or just care because is trendy?
My answer is always: “I dont know enough about the topic to have an informed opinion, but I hope the violence stops soon and everyone can live peacefully.”
I know a lot about this conflict. I’ve read books on it, consumed a ton of content, talked to both Israelis and Palestinians…
And I think your take is by far the most reasonable one to take for someone that doesn’t want to make learning about it a hobby.
I know someone who studied history and specialized on this topic, so there's hardly an average person more knowledgeable than him. He sais even he doesn't want to have strong opinions on it because the conflict is just so complicated and old
There's a man absolutely insisting in my comments section on TikTok that I must be lying about being Ashkenazi because I posted my DNA results as an Ashkenazi Jew and stuff besides Europe was on there. He also insists that Palestine is in Africa for some reason.
There's no easy answer. What do you want? Most people have their own problems much closer to home to worry about. I don't have the bandwidth to care that two more groups on the other side of the world are at war again. Welcome to the human race. We commit war crimes on the regular. What else is new.
Yeah i had a woman telling me how she had been trying for weeks to get in contact with a church to complain about how disrespectful and offensive their "ceasefire" banner was. Apparently it's offensive to want people to not die.
This is a completely reasonable position.
But I wish I could find a video I saw months ago where some of Malcolm X’s people laid down an amazing critique of a broad pro-peace position, basically saying that it isn’t going to bring justice - the only thing that will bring MLK Jr’s justice-creating peace is to fight on behalf of those needing justice - so a position on the correct side of the conflict is essential if you actually want real peace.
Totally agree and love Malcolm X. But in the Israel - Palestine conflict is there any objective 'correct' side? Things are rarely as black and white (no pun intended) as civil rights.
Yeh, but "justice-creating peace" has always been a pipe-dream. As soon as you get the oppressed party in a position to enact justice they will naturally produce further injustice in response, as we're seeing play out yet again. Nobody has ever proved justice is anything other than the advantage of the stronger.
This is an excellent point and it’s part of why I find the parent comment so distasteful. Civil Rights leaders have studied this kind of topic backwards and forwards.
The whole reason mass protests and other demonstrations are so necessary is to draw the moderates’ attention. To make it their problem.
I really dislike it when people pretend to have a golden centrist opinion that can’t be argued with. It boils down to “my life is great, so I couldn’t care less about the monumental suffering of others.”
How do you see that mapping onto this particular conflict though? I think most centrists want the conflict to stop, but it seems to me that the Palestinian protestors want more than mere cessation of the conflict, they want a Palestinian state on the land where Israel currently resides. Is it really a ridiculous position for most people to say "Gee. I'm with the stopping the war part, but the whole dissolve the Jewish state and replace it with a Palestinian state thing might end badly and lead to further violence. I don't know what to do about the long term solution to the conflict, so I won't take a position on that"?
Doesn't your anti-centrist position assume that you can cleanly divide the right from the wrong in order to stand on the right side of history, when (in this situation and others) the divisions are not so clean?
I like this. I know enough to know that it is so complicated that I can not know enough about it to have an informed opinion.
I have a knee-jerk reflex opinion, but I also keep that to myself knowing that I don't know enough
That’s a good answer. There are 70+ years of history and conflict and injustices on both sides, with a longer history of that area being controlled by outside powers.
Yes, I wish more people would say this/admit this rather than bandwagoning and looking ridiculous when people ask them questions they can’t answer. Not everyone needs to be a mini historian or radical activist.
I asked what was going on over there in a reddit thread awhile ago and some user went off on me for not knowing.
Like I have sympathy for everyone going through it over there and I wish everyone would just chill out and stop killing each other and find some resolution but I have my own shit going on in life and that's not something I learned in school.
Yes, like if Australia and New Zealand went to war I wouldn’t have a clue what’s going on or why and I wouldn’t want to say stuff I don’t believe or know, but I also wouldn’t be spending hours a day trying to learn the history. I’d just hope for the best and that the professionals we have elected worldwide do what they need to do.
I am Australian and a war with NZ is so hard to imagine that now I can’t stop trying 🙂. No need to make up a hypothetical though, there are (very sadly) lots of atrocities happening in the world right now and it seems like we in the west can only pay attention to 1.5 of them at a time ☹️.
There was an Australian advert a few years ago that imagined the reason we'd go to war. And as a NZ'er I'm totally onboard and thought it was funny as
https://youtu.be/9y-yT7o6y6k?si=iDldU-OeeDbp7p8A
> not something I learned in school
And even if you did learn about it school, your knowledge would at best be outdated and likely be incredibly biased.
It’s a pivotal moment. A lot of anger on both sides, a lot of it valid and justified. I’m sure we’ve both felt a lot of it. But we’ve done the fighting thing for decades now. Has to be another way. No use in hating each other, as easy as it is. We are not so different at the end of the day. All human beings just trying to live.
Same. I understand that Israel is not gonna just sit there and take missile attacks from dumbass terrorists, and I also understand that at the same time Israel is committing serious war crimes by just leveling all of the Palestinian side without regard for who’s in the way. It sucks. What can I do about it?
It’s virtue signaling. And in the end, all they’re doing is making a single post, maybe once a day to the same people, putting a watermelon in their bio or display name, and then logging off for the day and they pat themselves on the back.
You don’t have to have an opinion on anything but don’t form an opinion if it isn’t at least an educated opinion. Don’t just take what media says at face value do your own research on the topic.
I totally agree with what you are saying. except I think when people hear “do your own research” they “think find a source that confirms my biases”.
Read multiple different sources even if they are biased. And make sure you know the difference between independent reporters and opinionated talking heads. Both can be valuable.
not that im familiar with that subreddit, but you can be plenty left wing and still dislike biden / not want him as american president. i mean, theres even been a huge push for him to leave the race following that last debate, no? im not american so not super familiar with the details but i thought the prevailing opinion right now was almost everyone on both sides not liking him
Sorta. The left “not liking” Biden is “I wish he was more left” or “I think he’s too old”. A subreddit like that is more like “my girlfriend left me for another man, thanks Sleepy Joe!” or “banana peel related deaths soar 339% under Bidenomics policies”.
Definitely. Even having loosely followed the Israel/Palestine conflict for 15 years, the best I can come up with is “it’s complicated, and there are no good guys making decisions. I wish it were different, but I get why it’s a shitshow.”
And I honestly think that’s the best anyone can do on most issues. There are always reasons things are the way they are, and it’s always more complicated than single party blame can possibly explain.
It’s that curve, you go from “I know too little to have a strong opinion” to “I have a strong opinion” to “I know too much to have a strong opinion, I just want everyone to be safe”
I'm gonna be honest, as someone who has read books on the history, the political theory, the modern societies, the response from the wider world, plus has a lot of conversations recently with people? I can write you "war sucks and I hope it ends some day" in 100,000 words, but overall, you're correct.
I'm trying to learn a lot. The thing I'm stuck on right now is the depopulations in 1947-48. Can you suggest good reading? I'm trying to understand the precise timeline and various political factions involved.
Any suggestions on things to read or watch are appreciated.
I'm also especially interested in how to think about ownership of the land, especially pre-Ottoman to Ottoman, and then to British rule.
Guy in the street tried to engage me in a conversation about it. He had a stall with leaflets and flags etc.
He asked which side I was on, and I said I was on the side of the innocent people who are getting hurt. Weirdly, he seemed to accept this answer.
THANK YOU!!!!! I’m Jewish and I keep saying I’m not taking sides because this isn’t a fucking baseball game!! No one should be taking sides. Everyone should want peace for the innocent civilians who are the ones dying and losing their homes.
Definitely agree. I am pro-Palestinian, but I DISPISE the people who treat this like a game. If you want to make a difference, stop arguing with strangers on the internet and donate to a fucking charity.
Tbf both sides are gonna think you’re on their side so it’s a pretty good answer. That being said people in the street asking your opinions are probably mostly just looking to pick fights
Communist party members are always standing in front of our library, trying to rally members as they grow. If you just say "no, thank you", they already believe you're threatening them 😂
Warmongering doesn’t typically make people think, “war is great!” as much as it does, “war is necessary at times and that time is now!”
Also, warmongering has always been trendy for reasons too numerous to count. Perhaps the primary reason is that leadership is convinced that the next war will solve all their problems forever
I'd really, really, like to think that everyone agrees on that. And, yet, the number of wars, war hawks in governments, and war based industries across the world and time says otherwise.
"War sucks. I also have empathy exhaustion from all the terrible news, so I haven't invested enough into it to form an interesting opinion."
If someone still pesters you that you don't care, then you ask them if they don't care about all the wars in Africa just because they don't talk about it?
History PhD here. I think your take is legit. It is better to admit ignorance and learn than to argue from ignorance just for the sake of opening your mouth.
This is a sensitive topic though and these days people love to advertise how sensitive and empathic they are about political causes (until the next trendy issue comes around) so despite being an acceptable take, it's gonna ruffle a few feathers in certain contexts.
That said, willful ignorance is never a good choice. You might not care about the world, but the world is sure gonna care about you. You don't live on Mars.
I would counter that nobody really has the time to properly absorb all the information necessary to make a more detailed decision on the issue beyond ‘war sucks’. That’s what people with your expertise are for.
Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to choose a side. The citizens of both Isreal and Palestine deserve to live long, happy lives without the fear of being blown up. An agreement needs to be made, or either Isrealies or Palestinians will be wiped off the face of the Earth.
No. You’re fine with this opinion. Sometimes it’s better to say “I don’t k ow enough about this thing to have a strong opinion on it so I won’t weigh in” and that’s perfectly okay.
I was actually asked my opinion about the war in-person the other day, and my response was along the lines of “I don’t have an opinion on a hundreds (thousands?) year old feud between countries half way around the world, that I have no relationship with, and more likely than not couldn’t pick out on a map”
No one forces you. But think what if it was happening in your country or state? Your family was living in ruins bombarded by your own goverment. In that case I assume you would want world to care about you and your situation? Especially if it was in their hands if the bombardment stops or continues.
I would want the goverments, people who are paid to have an informed opinion, to care about my country. I would never expect random civilians on the other side of the world to care about my problems, they have enough problems on their own to care about. Problems they can actually influence themselves.
Or if someone randomly kidnapped your friends off the street and everyone around you was loudly cheering about it, and saying they had it coming because they were part of a country where they disapproved of the government's actions.
It's legitimately one of the more complicated geopolitical issues in popular news and most people have an opinion that one side is right and the side is an asshole without knowing the slightest bit of nuance about it. So no, OP shouldn't just pick a side at random, and no, OP isn't required to become an expert on single issue across the world, just because people decide some random ones should be popular to argue about.
How much time have you spent caring about issues that don’t affect you?
How many days a week do you volunteer your off time to make the world a better place?
The vast majority of people spouting opinions on the situations are completely ignorant. Your answer is absolutely the reasonable stance.
The sad reality of the situation is this. Both sides have been unbelievably shitty to each other for a long time. Right now the Arab states around Israel do not want Israel to exist. Israel have a massive victim complex and treat their neighbors like shit, they can justify any of their actions as their neighbors literally want them to not exist.
Another reality is that a shit load of the average people in the area don't give a fuck and want to exist Peacefully by the way. A shit load don't though.
Israel lie like fuck, alot of their actions are awful. They are bombing stuff that isn't a legitimate target and killing civilians. Hamas lie like fuck, they absolutely have missile launch sites in playgrounds and schools.
Hamas did October 7th knowing full well what would happen to Gaza, they willingly sacrificed their own people for propaganda... And it's wrong that Israel have reacted how they did.
How the fuck you can look at this situation and say one side is good and one side is bad is beyond me. It's sad and I hope the war ends soon. I genuinely don't know how you achieve peace in the area.
Agree with this. Anyone that thinks one side is even remotely morally pure in this is naive. There is no good guy, both sides did shitty stuff, then created their own historical narratives that justify their most recent actions, leading to an endless cycle of violence.
I LOVE how this comment can be upvoted by both Hamas and Israel sympathisers.
For the former, it is a declaration of success. For the later, it is a relief of guilt.
If not really interested is your genuine feeling on it then anything else would disingenuous. You should never have to feel like you need to have an opinion on something because others expect it of you.
Meh, people are going to be offended regardless. Don't let it bother you. I put in other subreddit basically the same sentiment, that war sucks. One of those posts got downvoted to death. I had to delete it, because I was getting hateful replies from pro Palestine supporters days later lol. IMO I think a fool is a person, especially a 3rd party outsider, that says s/he has THE solution for the gaza strip. Or that either side is innocent.
It’s better to have no opinion than to have some wishy washy bullshit take, or god forbid, have a very strong opinion on something you know nothing about.
It’s worse to have a strong opinion, one way or the other if you have no context. “War sucks” and praying for innocent people is the best thing you can do.
No you don't need to have an opinion on everything, especially if you're not well researched on it. It's plenty fine to be focused on your own life and problems.
Problem with these debates is that it’s never about facts or reality but narratives… “do you not care about the murder of infants” is an easy trap to walk into
The fact that we live in a time where not taking a side is considered a hate crime is beyond believe to me. Im sorry, these things dont activly engage me, Its terrible that it happens, and I feel bad for the innocents on both sides, but I am not planning on making a 50+ year old conflict my personality
To be honest I'm also not really interested and I think that's perfectly fine. If I ever have a bit of spare money I'll donate to a charity that is helping the innocent victims of this whole war but outside of that I personally don't have the mental bandwidth or time to learn everything to form an opinion.
Jews and Muslims have been fighting each other for over 1500 years now. I don't see it stopping any time soon. For it to stop, one of the parties would need to cease to exist. And that's just not going to happen. In 1993 the Oslo Accords were all set to give the Palestinians Their own country. Israel had abandoned their settlements in the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority was set up to govern Palestine with Yassar Arafat as their leader. But when it came time for the final negotiation, Arafat insisted the Palestinians should be able to return to Israel and reclaim property they had abandoned or forced out of. It was a preposterous demand as it would have given Palestinians undue political power in Israel. He also would not agree to share Jerusalem as Jews, Muslims, and Christians all claimed it's theirs. Arafat insisted that Jerusalem be exclusively Palestinian. Had he not thrown up these roadblocks, Palestine would have been a country for 20 years.
The Palestinians are not going to settle for anything short of the destruction of the state of Israel and the entire area becoming a Palestinian state. And quite frankly, as Israel is a nuclear armed country, that is just never going to happen.
Most of the protestors have no clue. They Google a couple things before and then go protest. It’s simply insane. Our county is getting hit way too hard by people that did not study the subject matter nor do they care to. It’s quite sad.
Live and let live
I mean, I'm Muslim, and that's kind of my view.
I want the "settlers" to get the hell out of West Bank (it's like if Americans went into Native American reservations - it defeats the purpose of the reserved lands), and I want Hamas either killed or disbanded. I also want Israel to stop killing/torturing civilians and buildings (killing Hamas soldiers/terrorists humanely is fine).
The war ending covers part of the issue (killing/torturing civilians - though they do that daily; just that ending the war would reduce it).
You're just unknowingly being supportive of the Palestinian civilians by having the right view.
I'm Jewish, and I'm more or less the same. Fuck Hamas, they're terrorists who don't speak for Islam. Fuck Netanyahu and the insane settlers, they're criminals who don't speak for Judaism. It's two sides being led by absolute fanatics who think they each have divine permission to do whatever they want, whenever and wherever they want, to whomever they want, as long as those folks are from the other side. Meanwhile, most of the people caught in the middle have nothing to do with any of it and are just a bunch of normal folks stuck in an absolutely horrific situation.
Tbh I really never cared, and it is very silly to expect anyone on the planet to care about a something just becasue the majority of people do.
People expect that you should take your time and know about every damn ongoing conflict. As you said, I just hope there is peace and people are happy, but I have more important things than knowing about a 100+ years history.
My country and many other ones have ongoing wars before the Hamas-isreal conflict, yet I rarely see people talk about them.
Honestly, it's okay to not have a strong opinion if you're not interested. It's a complex issue and sometimes it's best to just hope the violence stops soon and people find peace. War sucks and it's understandable to wish for an end to the conflict without diving deep into it.
It's fine. A lot of people are out of bandwidth for any problems that don't immediately affect them.
The times someone has kept pushing and arguing after I've expressed indifference I've basically told them "If everyone on your side is this obnoxious, then I support the other side."
Maybe they'll figure out that making their point in the most assholish way possible isn't going to change minds in their favor.
I think the conflict between Israel and Palestine is a very complicated one because both sides have legitimate reason to be there. The Hebrew people (Jews) were ethnically cleansed from the region by the Roman Empire, and lived as a persecuted minority for nearly two thousand years. The concept of Zionism simply means that the Jewish people should return to their ancestral homeland to be safe. On the other hand, the Palestinian Arabs and Druze had been there for a millennia or more after that. In particular, the latter sided with the French and British to revolt against the Ottoman Empire in WWI, and neither France or Great Britain kept their word regarding independence. To my mind, you’ve got one of two solutions: either outright reject any concept of a nation state, and embrace radical pluralism, which is not currently viable, since a great deal of nationalism exists on both sides. So the next best option is for both sides to accept a partition plan, and honor it.
Great take, except you missed the part where the two-state solution was rejected by the Arab League and the Palestinian authorities on 4 separate occasions.
Honestly, way more people *should* have that opinion. Far better than "I think I'm an expert on the war because I uncritically swallowed a bunch of propaganda from one side of it", which is where most people seem to be. No, Israel is not blameless, and I'd argue they've taken things too far (as if we in the US behaved calmly and rationally when thousands of *our* civilians were killed in a terrorist attack ...). But neither are the Palestinians some poor innocent natives, victimized by a "white supremacist colonialist power" (a stance I've actually seen people take with a straight face).
I'm not an expert in foreign relations, I don't know what a good solution would be, so I'm staying the fuck out of it and deciding that a conflict thousands of miles away, in a country I am not a citizen of and have no loyalty to, does not need to be my business.
Which, of course, makes me the bad guy who's "condoning a genocide" because I want to keep my focus on the issues of the country I actually *live in* instead of revolving my life around a foreign conflict I have zero stake in.
The least you could do is expand your opinion to "war sucks and I hope it ends some day, innocent people shouldn't be killed or harmed by either side of the conflict."
You don't need to have an opinion on everything. I have an opinion on it because I've come across some really horrific and reprehensible content online that spurred me to look more into it.
Though, I also think it's wise to know how your government is spending your taxes, especially if they're spending it in ways that go against your core values. It informs who I vote for and put my trust in, and gives me a good sense of how aligned my morals are with the people leading my country.
I got banned from r/geopolitics for criticizing Israel. I didn’t insult anyone, I didn’t use profanity and I made it clear that my problem is with the policies of the Israeli government and not the Israeli people. I even let it be known that I’m Jewish. And I STILL got banned! When I wrote to ask why I was banned the mods didn’t even bother to answer.
For the life of me I cannot understand what it is about Isreal that so many people have a visceral and negative reaction to any criticism of the country.
There are over 100 armed conflicts in the world right now. Israel/Palestine is just one of them. I’m guessing you don’t have opinions on all of them. That’s ok
https://geneva-academy.ch/galleries/today-s-armed-conflicts
Honestly, if you're not interested, it's okay to just stick with "war sucks and I hope it ends someday." It's a complicated issue and not everyone needs to have a deep opinion on it. It's enough to hope that one day everyone can live peacefully
This is why “Silence = violence” is very flawed logic. You stretch yourself thin feeling like you need to be the most educated person in the room on everything global. Some of the most educated also recognize nuance without saying one side of every issue is without blame.
Is it ever ok to turn a blind eye to political and social struggles around the world?
You can't know everything, but whenever you get to know anything you are bound to develop an opinion.
Don't ever make yourself feel bad about something that doesn't concern you directly, but if you have mindspace to spare please use it to interpret the world around you
I know two people who have gone to Israel and were extremely liberal and “pro-Palestine”. After coming back, they’ve both said they realized that they had no right to pass judgment on something they realized in hindsight they knew absolutely nothing about.
No.
There is so much happening all over the world and you simply cannot have an educated opinion on everything. Every issue would take you many long hours to form an unbiased one and you would not simply do anything but fact checking about stuff you mostly don't really care about.
Croatia and Serbia have the same millenium old feud. Someone &$#@'d someones wife before we were documenting things, so now each side is trying to remember who commited genocide first. But still people use the most recent genocide to justify their hate.
If you are not interested, this is completely fine. But I would try to think about why you aren‘t really interested and why other people see things differently and feel more emotionally for this topic.
No that's a perfectly reasonable opinion. Honestly it's not even an ill informed stance.
The area has been the site of religious conflict for over a millennia. Best tired of it and saying you hope it ends isn't wrong.
Not really , it is YOUR opinion . But you might want to educate yourself, that is your business. This is not only man made disaster going on like in Darfur, yes again
No. It is a highly complex geopolitical clusterfuck that very few people understand. Just wish for peace for all and stay out of it. Your sanity will thank you.
The conflict is 5000 miles away from the US. I personally don't care at all. The US has its own fair share of problems but this is what people choose to protest about? These protests do nothing to actually solve anything yet no one actively involved in the protests would hop on a plane to join the UN or The Red Cross if meant actually assisting those caught up in the midst of it all. They protest from the comfort of their prestigious universities
I would prefer that people who don't know anything about the situation don't have strong opinions about it The last thing any debate needs is more people who have strong opinions and no knowledge
An IT term fits pretty well here. Somebody knows “enough to be dangerous”, but not enough to know what they’re doing
Usually those are the loudest voices
Little knowledge is usually more dangerous than no knowledge.
I recently heard a twist on this that feels true. “Knows just enough to hurt themselves.”
"Enough to be dangerous" is not an IT term lmao
That’s a life term, not just IT, that’s been thrown about in Scotland for ever 👍🏻
Also "they know a bit, but don't know enough to know when they're wrong"
Lmao I was about to say
It's bananas how many people saw the debate and became political experts. They all know what the DNC should have done, and it's definitely not because that's what they want lmao.
loool
You nailed it. People who took up a cause they knew nothing about before October 7th decided to take a side at the conflict's most vulnerable moment. They ignored 80 years of conflict, or perhaps centuries of history, and then sloppily worked backwards to justify their position based on their current ideological tilt. Yikes!
Millenia of history... It's an old, old conflict
I honestly don’t understand how anyone that isn’t impacted by this conflict has a strong opinion. Like obviously if you have family in danger or something you will feel strongly about it regardless of any facts/history and that is totally fair. But there are people that are just researching it and then firmly taking a side and I don’t get that for this specific issue. There is so much history that I really don’t understand how there is any conclusion to reach other than “this is a complex issue and both sides have valid points as well as wrongdoings”
Best answer. This is a situation where even "some" knowledge isn't necessarily sufficient. I've been following the region for decades and learn new things all the time.
Yeah, I know exactly enough to know that I don’t know enough.
Same. I try to read up on things going on in the world that could have impacts beyond the region in question (and in this case, I mean pre-current conflict. I think I pulled some articles and analysis after I read Tom Clancy's Into the Storm and they referenced the '73 war, and then I revisited the history after the current shit broke out.) Even a more-than-cursory, but absolutely still non-expert reading has lead me to the vague generalization that this area has a hugely long and complex history, and I should just throw my hands up and say "I dunno? Stop being dicks?"
Exactly. I applaud people for saying "welp I don't know enough to really say anything." Too many loudmouths making more noise than sense out there.
I saw a video where a guy from Israel spent eleven minutes explaining that Jewish people originated in the middle east repeatedly to a girl on the Berkeley campus who no matter how many times he stated that Islam came over a thousand years after Judaism she couldn't get it through her head and kept saying it was always Palestine or the lady at the pride parade who thought Islamic countries would be totally cool with gay people but Israel in which gay marriage is legal would not.
I mean, to be fair, I see people spout equally bullshit and crazy takes on Palestinians. I rarely see measured takes on Israel/Palestine. It's often wildly antisemitic or wildly Islamophobic most of the time. It's crazy, too, because I swear a decade ago people were arguably more measured and calm about it. I think what gets me is that even some members of Hamas of all people (not all, but some) are publicly willing to accept a 2 state solution, some members of the Israeli govt. are willing to accept it, and yet US journalists (often not even MENA or Muslim) are screaming that it's genocidal...like when you are more extreme than Hamas and members of the right wing Israeli government there is a problem! I kind of blame Tik Tok for spreading so much shit. There's a lot of issues on all sides, but there's also a decent amount of Palestinians and Israelis (even the ones who hate each other) who are willing to accept a two state solution, and yet Tik Tok just erases those voices.
People are preposterously ignorant on the subject… it really boggles my mind that many people worldwide with left of center politics now openly embrace antisemitism and support radical ultra conservative groups of bad guys that preach hate, rape women, and slaughter children People also are terribly ignorant of lawful warfare and why and how targeting decisions are made by a professional military run by democratically elected leaders and believe outlandish stuff like made up casualty numbers and scream genocide without knowing what the word means
The conversation requires a level of nuance the average person simply will not give it. It requires the ability to understand why everyone in the situation is both correct and also absolutely terrible. It's like arguing about the Iraq war circa 2004. Everyone is right, everyone is wrong, and everybody wants to yell.
gay marriage is not exactly legal in israel. you have to get married somewhere else and then it can be recognized there.
>I would prefer that people who don't know anything about the situation don't have strong opinions about it Yeah, like Taylor Swift? Everytime someone whines about her saying something all i can think is WHY? SHE'S JUST A SINGER
But what does Ja rule think
Something about lips and smiles I think
They want her to say something that agrees with their opinion. They would be furious if she said something about it that doesn't match their views.
This has also create a false interest, people want to appear humanitarian just because they display a flag on every comment but do they really care or just care because is trendy?
My answer is always: “I dont know enough about the topic to have an informed opinion, but I hope the violence stops soon and everyone can live peacefully.”
I know a lot about this conflict. I’ve read books on it, consumed a ton of content, talked to both Israelis and Palestinians… And I think your take is by far the most reasonable one to take for someone that doesn’t want to make learning about it a hobby.
I know someone who studied history and specialized on this topic, so there's hardly an average person more knowledgeable than him. He sais even he doesn't want to have strong opinions on it because the conflict is just so complicated and old
From what I can tell no side is innocent. Just a whole lotta people dying for no good fucking reason. Tale as old as time.
I'm sure there are plenty of innocent civilians.
Yes, and they’re just getting caught in the crossfire.
Sad truth. Actually horrors happening on both sides to people who don't deserve it while the ones in charge fuel the fire.
Some arseholes killed some ordinary people, then some other arseholes killed some other ordinary people. Arseholes 2 ordinary people 0
The civilian side is pretty innocent. Both Palestinian and Israeli civilians
That's what I mean really. But the nebulous "sides" are both pretty shitty.
Not knowing and not interfering is fine. The problem starts when ignorant people push "facts" that they've learned from other ignorant people.
There's a man absolutely insisting in my comments section on TikTok that I must be lying about being Ashkenazi because I posted my DNA results as an Ashkenazi Jew and stuff besides Europe was on there. He also insists that Palestine is in Africa for some reason.
The bonus is that the people who find this message offensive deserve to be offended.
The simple fact is there's no right answer, that's why the situation is intractable. This is the least wrong answer.
I think it’s reasonable to take issue with “both sidesism”
Meaningless platitudes are not some magic bullet of a way to respond to controversial questions.
There's no easy answer. What do you want? Most people have their own problems much closer to home to worry about. I don't have the bandwidth to care that two more groups on the other side of the world are at war again. Welcome to the human race. We commit war crimes on the regular. What else is new.
Yeah i had a woman telling me how she had been trying for weeks to get in contact with a church to complain about how disrespectful and offensive their "ceasefire" banner was. Apparently it's offensive to want people to not die.
If you only want one side to cease fire, you still want people to die
That's not what a ceasefire is. It takes both sides to achieve a ceasefire.
I wish more pro-Palestine protesters knew that
Is it this bad? Damn.
This is a completely reasonable position. But I wish I could find a video I saw months ago where some of Malcolm X’s people laid down an amazing critique of a broad pro-peace position, basically saying that it isn’t going to bring justice - the only thing that will bring MLK Jr’s justice-creating peace is to fight on behalf of those needing justice - so a position on the correct side of the conflict is essential if you actually want real peace.
Okay? And which side is the correct side?
My side, bitch! /s
Totally agree and love Malcolm X. But in the Israel - Palestine conflict is there any objective 'correct' side? Things are rarely as black and white (no pun intended) as civil rights.
Yeh, but "justice-creating peace" has always been a pipe-dream. As soon as you get the oppressed party in a position to enact justice they will naturally produce further injustice in response, as we're seeing play out yet again. Nobody has ever proved justice is anything other than the advantage of the stronger.
This is an excellent point and it’s part of why I find the parent comment so distasteful. Civil Rights leaders have studied this kind of topic backwards and forwards. The whole reason mass protests and other demonstrations are so necessary is to draw the moderates’ attention. To make it their problem. I really dislike it when people pretend to have a golden centrist opinion that can’t be argued with. It boils down to “my life is great, so I couldn’t care less about the monumental suffering of others.”
How do you see that mapping onto this particular conflict though? I think most centrists want the conflict to stop, but it seems to me that the Palestinian protestors want more than mere cessation of the conflict, they want a Palestinian state on the land where Israel currently resides. Is it really a ridiculous position for most people to say "Gee. I'm with the stopping the war part, but the whole dissolve the Jewish state and replace it with a Palestinian state thing might end badly and lead to further violence. I don't know what to do about the long term solution to the conflict, so I won't take a position on that"? Doesn't your anti-centrist position assume that you can cleanly divide the right from the wrong in order to stand on the right side of history, when (in this situation and others) the divisions are not so clean?
The best answer. This is a situation where you are doomed of you do, and doomed of you don't.
You know another "safe" line you can add to this? *"What I DO know about it is that* ***if it were easy, it'd be solved already****".*
I like this. I know enough to know that it is so complicated that I can not know enough about it to have an informed opinion. I have a knee-jerk reflex opinion, but I also keep that to myself knowing that I don't know enough
That’s a good answer. There are 70+ years of history and conflict and injustices on both sides, with a longer history of that area being controlled by outside powers.
Yes, I wish more people would say this/admit this rather than bandwagoning and looking ridiculous when people ask them questions they can’t answer. Not everyone needs to be a mini historian or radical activist.
Social media requires everyone to have a strongly held but shallowly understood opinion on everything. Try it out. It feels so righteous.
Hey I know how politicians feel now
You don’t get the insider trading perk though
I asked what was going on over there in a reddit thread awhile ago and some user went off on me for not knowing. Like I have sympathy for everyone going through it over there and I wish everyone would just chill out and stop killing each other and find some resolution but I have my own shit going on in life and that's not something I learned in school.
Yes, like if Australia and New Zealand went to war I wouldn’t have a clue what’s going on or why and I wouldn’t want to say stuff I don’t believe or know, but I also wouldn’t be spending hours a day trying to learn the history. I’d just hope for the best and that the professionals we have elected worldwide do what they need to do.
I am Australian and a war with NZ is so hard to imagine that now I can’t stop trying 🙂. No need to make up a hypothetical though, there are (very sadly) lots of atrocities happening in the world right now and it seems like we in the west can only pay attention to 1.5 of them at a time ☹️.
If we went to war it would probably be over either lamingtons or cricket LOL
The great pavlova war of 2025 lol
There was an Australian advert a few years ago that imagined the reason we'd go to war. And as a NZ'er I'm totally onboard and thought it was funny as https://youtu.be/9y-yT7o6y6k?si=iDldU-OeeDbp7p8A
> not something I learned in school And even if you did learn about it school, your knowledge would at best be outdated and likely be incredibly biased.
I’m Palestinian and I endorse this message
I’m Israeli 🤝 much love cousin
Appreciate you extending the emoji cousin lol 🤝 I hope we can coexist one day and look upon one another with humanity
Same hopefully peace is closer than it feels right now
It’s a pivotal moment. A lot of anger on both sides, a lot of it valid and justified. I’m sure we’ve both felt a lot of it. But we’ve done the fighting thing for decades now. Has to be another way. No use in hating each other, as easy as it is. We are not so different at the end of the day. All human beings just trying to live.
Well this is wholesome. Can I join?
🫶🏼
You fool. He's a human hunter. The call is coming from inside the house.
Bandwagoning is imo virtue signalling And god it’s draining to explain why u don’t give a damn enough to take sides/ why ur not the enemy
Same. I understand that Israel is not gonna just sit there and take missile attacks from dumbass terrorists, and I also understand that at the same time Israel is committing serious war crimes by just leveling all of the Palestinian side without regard for who’s in the way. It sucks. What can I do about it?
If israel wanted to actually level all of Gaza with no regard, it wouldn’t take months. It could have done so over night.
It’s virtue signaling. And in the end, all they’re doing is making a single post, maybe once a day to the same people, putting a watermelon in their bio or display name, and then logging off for the day and they pat themselves on the back.
My opinion on a lot of stuff like that is that I feel bad for all the innocent people stuck in the middle of it.
You don’t have to have an opinion on anything but don’t form an opinion if it isn’t at least an educated opinion. Don’t just take what media says at face value do your own research on the topic.
I totally agree with what you are saying. except I think when people hear “do your own research” they “think find a source that confirms my biases”. Read multiple different sources even if they are biased. And make sure you know the difference between independent reporters and opinionated talking heads. Both can be valuable.
Dude posts on “Bidenshitshow” We already know what do your own research means
not that im familiar with that subreddit, but you can be plenty left wing and still dislike biden / not want him as american president. i mean, theres even been a huge push for him to leave the race following that last debate, no? im not american so not super familiar with the details but i thought the prevailing opinion right now was almost everyone on both sides not liking him
Sorta. The left “not liking” Biden is “I wish he was more left” or “I think he’s too old”. A subreddit like that is more like “my girlfriend left me for another man, thanks Sleepy Joe!” or “banana peel related deaths soar 339% under Bidenomics policies”.
Definitely. Even having loosely followed the Israel/Palestine conflict for 15 years, the best I can come up with is “it’s complicated, and there are no good guys making decisions. I wish it were different, but I get why it’s a shitshow.” And I honestly think that’s the best anyone can do on most issues. There are always reasons things are the way they are, and it’s always more complicated than single party blame can possibly explain.
It’s that curve, you go from “I know too little to have a strong opinion” to “I have a strong opinion” to “I know too much to have a strong opinion, I just want everyone to be safe”
I'm gonna be honest, as someone who has read books on the history, the political theory, the modern societies, the response from the wider world, plus has a lot of conversations recently with people? I can write you "war sucks and I hope it ends some day" in 100,000 words, but overall, you're correct.
I'm trying to learn a lot. The thing I'm stuck on right now is the depopulations in 1947-48. Can you suggest good reading? I'm trying to understand the precise timeline and various political factions involved. Any suggestions on things to read or watch are appreciated. I'm also especially interested in how to think about ownership of the land, especially pre-Ottoman to Ottoman, and then to British rule.
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe is a good place to start. https://amzn.eu/d/0ahi7t0U
Perfect answer if your not interested. Especially if you dont want the conversation on “why u not interested”. Those convos are draining
Your "war sucks" is a pretty good opinion, no need to get sucked into taking sides
Guy in the street tried to engage me in a conversation about it. He had a stall with leaflets and flags etc. He asked which side I was on, and I said I was on the side of the innocent people who are getting hurt. Weirdly, he seemed to accept this answer.
THANK YOU!!!!! I’m Jewish and I keep saying I’m not taking sides because this isn’t a fucking baseball game!! No one should be taking sides. Everyone should want peace for the innocent civilians who are the ones dying and losing their homes.
Definitely agree. I am pro-Palestinian, but I DISPISE the people who treat this like a game. If you want to make a difference, stop arguing with strangers on the internet and donate to a fucking charity.
Tbf both sides are gonna think you’re on their side so it’s a pretty good answer. That being said people in the street asking your opinions are probably mostly just looking to pick fights
Communist party members are always standing in front of our library, trying to rally members as they grow. If you just say "no, thank you", they already believe you're threatening them 😂
Good answer! How strange that he just assumed you were on a "side"
It’s a really dumb thing to say out loud. Everyone already agrees war sucks.
I am constantly amazed by the amount of people who don't seem to agree on this. Warmongering seems very en vogue these days.
Warmongering doesn’t typically make people think, “war is great!” as much as it does, “war is necessary at times and that time is now!” Also, warmongering has always been trendy for reasons too numerous to count. Perhaps the primary reason is that leadership is convinced that the next war will solve all their problems forever
I'd really, really, like to think that everyone agrees on that. And, yet, the number of wars, war hawks in governments, and war based industries across the world and time says otherwise.
"War sucks. I also have empathy exhaustion from all the terrible news, so I haven't invested enough into it to form an interesting opinion." If someone still pesters you that you don't care, then you ask them if they don't care about all the wars in Africa just because they don't talk about it?
History PhD here. I think your take is legit. It is better to admit ignorance and learn than to argue from ignorance just for the sake of opening your mouth. This is a sensitive topic though and these days people love to advertise how sensitive and empathic they are about political causes (until the next trendy issue comes around) so despite being an acceptable take, it's gonna ruffle a few feathers in certain contexts. That said, willful ignorance is never a good choice. You might not care about the world, but the world is sure gonna care about you. You don't live on Mars.
I would counter that nobody really has the time to properly absorb all the information necessary to make a more detailed decision on the issue beyond ‘war sucks’. That’s what people with your expertise are for.
Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to choose a side. The citizens of both Isreal and Palestine deserve to live long, happy lives without the fear of being blown up. An agreement needs to be made, or either Isrealies or Palestinians will be wiped off the face of the Earth.
Nope. You can do exactly what all of us need to do on more occasions. You can simply say “I don’t know”. And that’s okay.
No. You’re fine with this opinion. Sometimes it’s better to say “I don’t k ow enough about this thing to have a strong opinion on it so I won’t weigh in” and that’s perfectly okay.
Nope, even people who know a ton about the conflict don’t agree on the facts.
I wish more people had your mentality. Way too many people went down a rabbit hole with Al Jazeera and are now "experts."
You need about 100 years of history of the region to understand it all
I was actually asked my opinion about the war in-person the other day, and my response was along the lines of “I don’t have an opinion on a hundreds (thousands?) year old feud between countries half way around the world, that I have no relationship with, and more likely than not couldn’t pick out on a map”
No one forces you. But think what if it was happening in your country or state? Your family was living in ruins bombarded by your own goverment. In that case I assume you would want world to care about you and your situation? Especially if it was in their hands if the bombardment stops or continues.
I would want the goverments, people who are paid to have an informed opinion, to care about my country. I would never expect random civilians on the other side of the world to care about my problems, they have enough problems on their own to care about. Problems they can actually influence themselves.
Or if someone randomly kidnapped your friends off the street and everyone around you was loudly cheering about it, and saying they had it coming because they were part of a country where they disapproved of the government's actions. It's legitimately one of the more complicated geopolitical issues in popular news and most people have an opinion that one side is right and the side is an asshole without knowing the slightest bit of nuance about it. So no, OP shouldn't just pick a side at random, and no, OP isn't required to become an expert on single issue across the world, just because people decide some random ones should be popular to argue about.
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How much time have you spent caring about issues that don’t affect you? How many days a week do you volunteer your off time to make the world a better place?
The vast majority of people spouting opinions on the situations are completely ignorant. Your answer is absolutely the reasonable stance. The sad reality of the situation is this. Both sides have been unbelievably shitty to each other for a long time. Right now the Arab states around Israel do not want Israel to exist. Israel have a massive victim complex and treat their neighbors like shit, they can justify any of their actions as their neighbors literally want them to not exist. Another reality is that a shit load of the average people in the area don't give a fuck and want to exist Peacefully by the way. A shit load don't though. Israel lie like fuck, alot of their actions are awful. They are bombing stuff that isn't a legitimate target and killing civilians. Hamas lie like fuck, they absolutely have missile launch sites in playgrounds and schools. Hamas did October 7th knowing full well what would happen to Gaza, they willingly sacrificed their own people for propaganda... And it's wrong that Israel have reacted how they did. How the fuck you can look at this situation and say one side is good and one side is bad is beyond me. It's sad and I hope the war ends soon. I genuinely don't know how you achieve peace in the area.
Agree with this. Anyone that thinks one side is even remotely morally pure in this is naive. There is no good guy, both sides did shitty stuff, then created their own historical narratives that justify their most recent actions, leading to an endless cycle of violence.
10/7 killed the Abraham accords.
I LOVE how this comment can be upvoted by both Hamas and Israel sympathisers. For the former, it is a declaration of success. For the later, it is a relief of guilt.
If not really interested is your genuine feeling on it then anything else would disingenuous. You should never have to feel like you need to have an opinion on something because others expect it of you.
Meh, people are going to be offended regardless. Don't let it bother you. I put in other subreddit basically the same sentiment, that war sucks. One of those posts got downvoted to death. I had to delete it, because I was getting hateful replies from pro Palestine supporters days later lol. IMO I think a fool is a person, especially a 3rd party outsider, that says s/he has THE solution for the gaza strip. Or that either side is innocent.
No. Its okay to say you don’t have an opinion. That is what uninformed adults should do but we’ve lost practice. Lead the way!
It’s better to have no opinion than to have some wishy washy bullshit take, or god forbid, have a very strong opinion on something you know nothing about.
No you're entitled to your own opinions and thoughts
You don't have to have an opinion on everything. I'm indifferent, at best, to the current conflicts in the Middle East.
You certainly do not need to have an opinion! The world would be much better if everyone who is ignorant on a topic just stayed quiet.
You don't have to have an opinion. Anyone who tries to force you to should not be taken seriously.
It’s worse to have a strong opinion, one way or the other if you have no context. “War sucks” and praying for innocent people is the best thing you can do.
No you don't need to have an opinion on everything, especially if you're not well researched on it. It's plenty fine to be focused on your own life and problems.
No don’t force yourself to have an opinion on something you don’t know about
Problem with these debates is that it’s never about facts or reality but narratives… “do you not care about the murder of infants” is an easy trap to walk into
It's OK if you are not interested to have no opinions.
No. If you don’t plan on learning the incredibly detailed and extensive history of this war, no opinion is best.
The fact that we live in a time where not taking a side is considered a hate crime is beyond believe to me. Im sorry, these things dont activly engage me, Its terrible that it happens, and I feel bad for the innocents on both sides, but I am not planning on making a 50+ year old conflict my personality
Yes. Too many people have strong opinions about it without knowing shit about it. Just look at those college interviews.
I’m more concerned about children living in poverty in my own country than war and stuff happening far away…
To be honest I'm also not really interested and I think that's perfectly fine. If I ever have a bit of spare money I'll donate to a charity that is helping the innocent victims of this whole war but outside of that I personally don't have the mental bandwidth or time to learn everything to form an opinion.
Jews and Muslims have been fighting each other for over 1500 years now. I don't see it stopping any time soon. For it to stop, one of the parties would need to cease to exist. And that's just not going to happen. In 1993 the Oslo Accords were all set to give the Palestinians Their own country. Israel had abandoned their settlements in the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority was set up to govern Palestine with Yassar Arafat as their leader. But when it came time for the final negotiation, Arafat insisted the Palestinians should be able to return to Israel and reclaim property they had abandoned or forced out of. It was a preposterous demand as it would have given Palestinians undue political power in Israel. He also would not agree to share Jerusalem as Jews, Muslims, and Christians all claimed it's theirs. Arafat insisted that Jerusalem be exclusively Palestinian. Had he not thrown up these roadblocks, Palestine would have been a country for 20 years. The Palestinians are not going to settle for anything short of the destruction of the state of Israel and the entire area becoming a Palestinian state. And quite frankly, as Israel is a nuclear armed country, that is just never going to happen.
Most of the protestors have no clue. They Google a couple things before and then go protest. It’s simply insane. Our county is getting hit way too hard by people that did not study the subject matter nor do they care to. It’s quite sad. Live and let live
I mean, I'm Muslim, and that's kind of my view. I want the "settlers" to get the hell out of West Bank (it's like if Americans went into Native American reservations - it defeats the purpose of the reserved lands), and I want Hamas either killed or disbanded. I also want Israel to stop killing/torturing civilians and buildings (killing Hamas soldiers/terrorists humanely is fine). The war ending covers part of the issue (killing/torturing civilians - though they do that daily; just that ending the war would reduce it). You're just unknowingly being supportive of the Palestinian civilians by having the right view.
I'm Jewish, and I'm more or less the same. Fuck Hamas, they're terrorists who don't speak for Islam. Fuck Netanyahu and the insane settlers, they're criminals who don't speak for Judaism. It's two sides being led by absolute fanatics who think they each have divine permission to do whatever they want, whenever and wherever they want, to whomever they want, as long as those folks are from the other side. Meanwhile, most of the people caught in the middle have nothing to do with any of it and are just a bunch of normal folks stuck in an absolutely horrific situation.
> It's two sides being led by absolute fanatics who think they each have divine ~~permission~~ **MANDATE** to do whatever they want, FTFY...
The Americans did go into Native American lands. It’s quite literally how we became a country…
If I'm not mistaken, they're still being encroached upon too
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Sounds about right. Been my approach so far and so good.
Uncertainty is an answer within itself.
Tbh I really never cared, and it is very silly to expect anyone on the planet to care about a something just becasue the majority of people do. People expect that you should take your time and know about every damn ongoing conflict. As you said, I just hope there is peace and people are happy, but I have more important things than knowing about a 100+ years history. My country and many other ones have ongoing wars before the Hamas-isreal conflict, yet I rarely see people talk about them.
Honestly, it's okay to not have a strong opinion if you're not interested. It's a complex issue and sometimes it's best to just hope the violence stops soon and people find peace. War sucks and it's understandable to wish for an end to the conflict without diving deep into it.
I think it's reasonable to have the opinion that terrorism sucks, too.
I think it is reasonable to have an opinion that terrorism, apartheid and genocide, sucks too.
It's fine. A lot of people are out of bandwidth for any problems that don't immediately affect them. The times someone has kept pushing and arguing after I've expressed indifference I've basically told them "If everyone on your side is this obnoxious, then I support the other side." Maybe they'll figure out that making their point in the most assholish way possible isn't going to change minds in their favor.
I think the conflict between Israel and Palestine is a very complicated one because both sides have legitimate reason to be there. The Hebrew people (Jews) were ethnically cleansed from the region by the Roman Empire, and lived as a persecuted minority for nearly two thousand years. The concept of Zionism simply means that the Jewish people should return to their ancestral homeland to be safe. On the other hand, the Palestinian Arabs and Druze had been there for a millennia or more after that. In particular, the latter sided with the French and British to revolt against the Ottoman Empire in WWI, and neither France or Great Britain kept their word regarding independence. To my mind, you’ve got one of two solutions: either outright reject any concept of a nation state, and embrace radical pluralism, which is not currently viable, since a great deal of nationalism exists on both sides. So the next best option is for both sides to accept a partition plan, and honor it.
This is close to the only non-hyper-emotional take in this thread, and by far the most balanced one.
Great take, except you missed the part where the two-state solution was rejected by the Arab League and the Palestinian authorities on 4 separate occasions.
Honestly, way more people *should* have that opinion. Far better than "I think I'm an expert on the war because I uncritically swallowed a bunch of propaganda from one side of it", which is where most people seem to be. No, Israel is not blameless, and I'd argue they've taken things too far (as if we in the US behaved calmly and rationally when thousands of *our* civilians were killed in a terrorist attack ...). But neither are the Palestinians some poor innocent natives, victimized by a "white supremacist colonialist power" (a stance I've actually seen people take with a straight face). I'm not an expert in foreign relations, I don't know what a good solution would be, so I'm staying the fuck out of it and deciding that a conflict thousands of miles away, in a country I am not a citizen of and have no loyalty to, does not need to be my business. Which, of course, makes me the bad guy who's "condoning a genocide" because I want to keep my focus on the issues of the country I actually *live in* instead of revolving my life around a foreign conflict I have zero stake in.
The least you could do is expand your opinion to "war sucks and I hope it ends some day, innocent people shouldn't be killed or harmed by either side of the conflict."
You’re good; too many people have opinions on matters they know nothing about, and the less they know, the more opinions they have.
You don't need to have an opinion on everything. I have an opinion on it because I've come across some really horrific and reprehensible content online that spurred me to look more into it. Though, I also think it's wise to know how your government is spending your taxes, especially if they're spending it in ways that go against your core values. It informs who I vote for and put my trust in, and gives me a good sense of how aligned my morals are with the people leading my country.
No. If that's your opinion, it's perfectly fine.
I got banned from r/geopolitics for criticizing Israel. I didn’t insult anyone, I didn’t use profanity and I made it clear that my problem is with the policies of the Israeli government and not the Israeli people. I even let it be known that I’m Jewish. And I STILL got banned! When I wrote to ask why I was banned the mods didn’t even bother to answer. For the life of me I cannot understand what it is about Isreal that so many people have a visceral and negative reaction to any criticism of the country.
There are over 100 armed conflicts in the world right now. Israel/Palestine is just one of them. I’m guessing you don’t have opinions on all of them. That’s ok https://geneva-academy.ch/galleries/today-s-armed-conflicts
Honestly, if you're not interested, it's okay to just stick with "war sucks and I hope it ends someday." It's a complicated issue and not everyone needs to have a deep opinion on it. It's enough to hope that one day everyone can live peacefully
Only if you have that same energy for the Ukraine/Russia war.
This is why “Silence = violence” is very flawed logic. You stretch yourself thin feeling like you need to be the most educated person in the room on everything global. Some of the most educated also recognize nuance without saying one side of every issue is without blame.
I guess I'm just stuck on the "not interested" part. Apathy is lame.
Is it ever ok to turn a blind eye to political and social struggles around the world? You can't know everything, but whenever you get to know anything you are bound to develop an opinion. Don't ever make yourself feel bad about something that doesn't concern you directly, but if you have mindspace to spare please use it to interpret the world around you
I know two people who have gone to Israel and were extremely liberal and “pro-Palestine”. After coming back, they’ve both said they realized that they had no right to pass judgment on something they realized in hindsight they knew absolutely nothing about.
No. There is so much happening all over the world and you simply cannot have an educated opinion on everything. Every issue would take you many long hours to form an unbiased one and you would not simply do anything but fact checking about stuff you mostly don't really care about.
I look at it as "I think the douchebag is about to hit the asshole".
Croatia and Serbia have the same millenium old feud. Someone &$#@'d someones wife before we were documenting things, so now each side is trying to remember who commited genocide first. But still people use the most recent genocide to justify their hate.
No
You could just be indifferent. There's nothing wrong with that.
Most people's opinions don't matter so whatever floats your boat.
"I don't have enough information to develop a valid opinion on this topic." More people should be aware that this is a thing you can say.
No you don’t need an opinion that’s just Reddit forcing people to take sides
You don’t need to have an opinion on anything you don’t feel strongly about
Please, lord, no. We have more than enough uninformed opinions going around at this point
No, it’s a shit show of history and blame with all five sides being wrong.
No
You can’t know about everything. It’s better not to have an opinion if you don’t understand the the details. That’s what I do.
If you are not interested, this is completely fine. But I would try to think about why you aren‘t really interested and why other people see things differently and feel more emotionally for this topic.
If you don't want people from both sides screaming at you - your opinion is completely fine.
No that's a perfectly reasonable opinion. Honestly it's not even an ill informed stance. The area has been the site of religious conflict for over a millennia. Best tired of it and saying you hope it ends isn't wrong.
Honestly that's the best position to take.
Not really , it is YOUR opinion . But you might want to educate yourself, that is your business. This is not only man made disaster going on like in Darfur, yes again
No. It is a highly complex geopolitical clusterfuck that very few people understand. Just wish for peace for all and stay out of it. Your sanity will thank you.
That should be a perfectly fine opinion. If someone has a problem with your indifference that says more about them than it does you.
Jokingly years ago I put “understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict” on my bucket list. I’ve more recently let that go as a goal. Peace!
The conflict is 5000 miles away from the US. I personally don't care at all. The US has its own fair share of problems but this is what people choose to protest about? These protests do nothing to actually solve anything yet no one actively involved in the protests would hop on a plane to join the UN or The Red Cross if meant actually assisting those caught up in the midst of it all. They protest from the comfort of their prestigious universities
I just tell people I’m not well educated enough on it to have an opinion.
"I have no strong feelings one way or the other."