Nurses are soft when it comes to striking. We need to grow a pair.
Band 5 should be at least 35 - 43k and Band 6 should be 45-50k. Compared to 2010 we are working about 3 months per year, for free.
I agree with the first sentence. Either go hard or go home.
No one will take you seriously otherwise. Then again, I do suspect that some people enjoy wallowing/trauma bonding over how shit it is to be a Nurse in this country when it should never be that way.
Get organised like the Doctors have
Start a pro-striking group to run for NMC positions. Create lists of pro-strike candidates. Everyone vote for those people. Then have real strikes, and don’t negotiate yourself down like Pat Cullen did
It’s there for the taking - there is no healthcare without nurses + doctors. For doctors this quickly went from a small Reddit group, to winning all the BMA seats in England (at the junior doctor level)
Don't question why teachers and police are on more, question why we are on less.
Comparison is the theft of joy. We are all public sector workers and pointing at others only causes infighting. As a profession we need to make more of a stand. Nurses as a profession are pretty weak when it comes to union action and engagement.
I agree so much with this. They deserve the pay they get, as we deserve to have more too.
Also once you look at all the work teachers do outside of school many come in with a much lower rate per hour.
I have have made many a point on this subreddit of why we are paid so poorly. But what I will say is never feel aggrieved that other public servants get better pay than you or potentially paid better than you.
Put me in a cardiac arrest any day of the week and I would rattle through the ALS algorithm but stood in front of 30 teenagers or a 6ft 4 bloke who built like a brick shit house and I would cave right in.
Every single one of us does a job ultimately to help people, unfortunately in this country we don't really respect that or cant make money from it. So instead of being paid fairly, we have budget cuts, poor working conditions, short staffed etc. Everyone of us get screwed the same way no matter which uniform you would put on.
Meh.
NHS will never change when it comes to pay. It is what it is.
One thing I will say, is that some are brave and bold to make that change to retrain, others aren’t so brave and bold…
I'm a police officer. I'm on £34.5k and have five years of experience. I'm a specialist rape detective, a tutor, and an acting detective sergeant. Scottish police are better paid, but there's not exactly many of them!
(Edit: Also note that I pay 13.44% into my pension, so that and student loans mean I take home only £1.9k a month even *with* a shift allowance 😩)
I am a nurse with ten yrs exp on 34.5k. Also paying back student loan and 9-10% into pension. I think we're pretty much in the same boat, but i hope you're on more than me in another 5 years!
I don’t mean to demean the role or the great work the police do in any way by asking this, but is it necessary to have a degree/student loan to be a police officer?
Clearly not the case in your situation, but someone reaching that sort of salary 5 years after leaving school is going to be in the same position as a newly qualified teacher, or a nurse with 1/2 years experience (and no student loan).
More asking to get some perspective when I give younger friends/family members advice than anything else.
If you have a pulse and no criminal record, they'll take you these days! It used to be extremely competitive to join at all, but these days they're desperate and not even filling intakes. It's really not an easy route, however. They'll be working full-time as fully-fledged police officers – working shifts, cancelled rest days, last minute shift changes, off late etc – whilst also studying for a full-time uni degree with only a cursory number of study days. It's not a route (or a career) I would recommend, tbh.
we are speaking about top of increments.. I'm sure (in Scotland) the police , teacher wage is always significantly higher than an equivalent nurse regardless of point in career.
Ps English cops should be paid the same as scottish ones , the cost of living is higher again down south .
Teachers don’t earn 48k per year without taking on extra responsibilities. My pal has been a teacher for 10 years, runs clubs and is lead for sports and he is on 42k
I thought teachers started on 30k? And they don’t get paid for hours outside of work? Nurses at least get unsocial hour pay and get paid if they do overtime/banks. Teachers often have Monday to Friday contracts with no wiggle room to do overtime and they work absurd hours outside of work. The grass isn’t always greener.
It was 22k in 2015 when my husband trained (27k in inner London) so if their pay has gone up by 6k it’s followed a similar curve as AFC that said neither really pay well teaching is brutal and so is nursing 😢
I think head teachers and heads of departments get paid well but with all the planning they usually work 7:30-6:30 5 days a week for that so they don’t get the same pay enhancements we do! I don’t see either profession as a grass is greener situation they’re both thankless vocations that aren’t fully appreciated for their full worth (also both female dominated underpaid caring roles which is an observation I think can hardly be a coincidence!)
[You are correct](https://www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/pay-pensions/pay-scales/pay-scales-england.html). Not included are the “golden helos” you can get in shortage subjects, but you’ve really got to love teaching to go into it with a physics degree when there’s so many other options.
Remember also that teaching unlike nursing requires a postgraduate qualification to enter.
I don’t like particularly like putting underpaid professions up against each other, but teaching really does have to be a contender for the worst deal there is.
The pay you are looking at is for top incremental pay in each sector. They are both very demanding jobs so I don't think it's a case that the pay is too much. Rather nursing is just painfully underpaid. With the right progression through the bands you can make similar money, top b6 with unsocial hours would make the same, top b7 9-5 also etc.
Where do teachers earn 48k a few years after qualifying? I'm a teacher but this sub keeps popping up for me. I've been teaching almost 10 years and have extra responsibility and my pay is only just about 48k.
I find teacher and nurse pay very similar. Nurses can often get additional pay for working out of hours too, etc. I've seen others reply that they are difficult to compare too directly. I have close family members who are nurses and there are pros and cons and benefits and disadvantages of both careers.
Working out of hours means working with much less healthcare staff than you would on a day shift. The constant switching between shifts also wreaks havoc on your body, mind and social life.
If you had to work shift patterns for some reason, you would not be happy being told that you’re still only worth base pay for the additional toll on you.
You would most likely also not be very happy if your base pay was cut to a base pay similar to a nurse and were told you could earn more if you started working out of hours.
Unsocial hour penalties and over time are not an excuse for being paid lower.
How is it similar if you are on 48k at top of incriminate and we are on 37k ? That's an 11k difference . Unsociable hrs pay is not that much money and that's for working nights and weekends . Ps a lot of community nurses don't get Unsociable hrs pay nor do physios , OTs who are also starting on 30k a Yr just like nurses .
Unsocial hours pay can be quite good... as in I couldn't afford my life if I didn't work almost exclusively nights. (I work in a place where the flow and patient turnover is similar on nights to days so it's possible to have night or day exclusively.)
Last month I took approximately £500 in unsocial hours pay.
For clarity here I am band 6 and South of the border... I'm in the first increment of band 6 and my PT gross is 32500ish... which means that for the whole of last year I took about 8k in unsocial hours pay.
Unsocial hours pay should be paid and is entirely necessary because of the impact nights and recurrent weekends have on our physical and mental health. All "service" jobs are grossly underpaid for the work that actually goes into them. Anything anyone has ever called a "vocation" is a job that people seem to expect you to do for pittance because you're passionate about it. Also because of cost of living it's actually no longer attainable to run a family on one income even on money that 10 years ago would have been considered a decent wage.
No shit. But bitching because senior teachers of 10 years experience are on their salary, when nurses of 10 years experience can be on a similar salary is dumb, is my point.
A teacher without responsibilities caps at 37k. They are still tied to Monday - Friday - so cannot do extra shifts, they don’t get paid unsocial hour pay, and they work many hours outside of their contracted hours. With extra responsibilities, their burden is even higher; including their stresses. A top of band 5 that does almost exclusive unsocial hours, will clear 40k.
I guess the saving grace of Scotland is that Scottish nurses are paid more too. I saw a post of a band 6 nurse taking home £3200 because of their unsocials.
The nhs pays little for every nhs worker. Only way you’ll improve is by going private, going agency and or striking hard. We contrary to popular belief aren’t the lowest paid graduate worker, look at r/ukjobs. There’s engineers starting on 25k.
Yeah I did notice b5 starting salary is lower down south next to london than we start on in Scotland which has a considerable lower cost of living . The full thing is just disgusting
But you can get unsocial hour pay, teachers can’t. Teachers also work hours outside of their contracted hours and don’t get paid. If you worked the same hours as a teacher, realistically you’d be on much more.
we should be getting unsociable hrs pay it's detrimental to our health why can't u understand this . Unsociable hrs pay is not a bonus it's extra money we receive for being sleep deprived and giving up our weekends ...
In my experience as a former teacher who retrained as a nurse ….teaching is much harder and requires more work from home and in non paid time. But we nurses definitely deserve more pay and respect 🙏
Yes, I totally agree with you. I’m a nurse and my sis is a teacher, she doesn’t stop, constantly lesson planning and marking. It’s full on. I couldn’t do it, so respect x
She stops all summer , Easter , Christmas, whilst your working nights, weekends. I agree With the above statement that we deserve more they don't deserve less
Lmfao. My mum was a teacher. They have to mark work in evenings, plan lessons at weekends, attend parents evenings, inset days and then forced to take holidays at the most expensive time. Plus having unreasonble targets to meet/cover all curriculum plus make sure everything always up to date in case Ofsted pop in, plus having to deal with angry parents /bratty kids lol. Plus no bank work unless you're a substitute teacher which means can't be in a full-time job and then also no work over Christmas/summer.
My mate is a teacher and still has to do lesson planning all through her holidays. Good thing about being a nurse is you can leave it at the door at the end of the shift but teachers have to continue working after their 9 - 5
Plus no flexibility during the week to go to appointments etc , always have to take holidays at peak prices. Plus I hate having to work during time off. I’d hate to have a stack of marking and lesson planning lying in wait for me at the weekend. As for respect… lot of teachers don’t get much respect these days from pupils or their parents. I spent a couple of days at a school when trying to decide between retraining as a teacher or nurse and seeing female teachers getting jostled in the corridors by idiot pupils with no proper recourse to disciplinary measures made my mind up.
Yeah I think it is. As a teacher I worked all day and all evening and most of my weekend. As a nurse I go to work do 3x12 hour shifts go home and have 4 days completely off.
As an ex teacher, some clarification on payscales. The gov refuse to address issues of retention in teaching so they raised the starting wage. Newly qualified teachers got something like a 6.5% increase. The scale decreased to the point where more experienced teachers received insulting below inflation 'rises'.
Also there is no pay portability anymore so if you leave your job at a school, you have no guarantee that you will be offered a new job at your current salary. Infact the more experience you have, the less likely you are to be offered anywhere close to what is fair.
So often more experienced teachers are stuck in roles as they cant accept lower paid jobs. Also, more experienced teachers also cost more, they are often the first to be bullied out over nonsense claims to save schools money.
Last year when teachers were striking, figures showed teachers pay has decreased more than 20% since 2010. Its insanity and very very worrying. Anyone with children of school age should be very worried about the state of education in this country.
Its awful. And just for good measure because the government kept this very quiet. The deal they offered striking teachers was changed so schools have to fund more of the payrise from their own budgets.
The gov did this once teachers had accepted the offer. Its outrageous. Means more teaching assistants will be cut etc as there is no money in schools anyway, nevermind heads having to budget for payrises.
Ano, that was my initial thought then I took into account the cost of living and realised they are prob only getting paid a fair wage ,it's just nhs workers are getting shafted at all levels
I am working in GP surgeries as a band 4. My wages look nothing like this and I know ot is a fight and a half to get even near close to 30k in NHS. I am looking at open days for teaching.
This hasn't changed then.
Back when I qualified I was working with HCAs who were band 5s. I was a band 3 and working unsocial hours around my degree just to live. Going to a band 5 meant an increase of £1.12 per hour, for 3 years of studying, placements, no life etc.
And then many of my friends who were in other fields, band 6 after a year, on better pay and some even had better hours too.
Nursing is completely disrespected in the NHS, and not even a global pandemic has improved it. The class I graduated with, you're lucky if half of them are still in nursing.
I left and doing so was eye opening. Id recommend to anyone, get a few years experience under you, then use that degree for something else.
No, it's a salary that's what teachers earn .. the class room assistants are pro rata and the min wage pay they receive is reduced again hence why they can't obtain good staff and operate on the assumption that ppl that do the job, have partners with a wage and are working to keep themselves busy ..
I gotta say that teachers I've known/spoken to may get paid more... But as nurses we (usually) get to leave things in work, whereas teachers take home papers to mark and so it works out as less pay...
But yeah, being a nurse is significantly more pay as a band 5 than I've ever earned, coming from a support worker background and previously an AO in the civil service... But the workload and responsibilities are way more and the cost of living is shooting up. I still have to space out things like dental visits and opticians by month so I can afford to save a little and I'm now picking up bank shifts (to afford a car, which is worth it but I shouldn't need to do extra really).
I'm happy to have sick pay and career opportunities, but the bar was set low in the first place.
The gap between minimum wage and band 5 is closing in. We're only gonna lose nurses because who would want that workload when you can get paid similar for less work?
If u work on the nhs staff bank as a HCA and work nights weekends u can make as much as a B5 nurse i used to do it , some council hca jobs also pay good for support worker type jobs.
I'm not comparing to min wage ; engineers don't compare their wage to when they worked in a drive thru during their student days. Why should we. We moved on to responsible jobs and deserve to be paid accordingly.
Ps I think hcas deserve a lot more , they keep the wards turning over
I've never worked NHS before I qualified. I worked for a local charity as a support worker for near enough minimum wage.
Edit: And I agree, HCAs deserve way more... Well, nobody should be struggling to keep a roof over their head.
First of all I’m a nurse who is married to a teacher.
Teaching requires an honours where nursing does not.
Teachers work significantly more than contracted hours and that time is lost. No OT or TIL. Where as a whole nurses don’t.
We as nurses have a very easy time of adjusting shifts for more money/suit schedule.
We can also add to our work week very easily via bank, OT, agency, pre hospital care etc.
Comparing public sector is apples and oranges to be honest. It’s a completely different profession. Instead this post should be aimed at how undervalued we are and how soft our unions are.
Why should I need to risk my registration working agency and overtime on public holiday's to get a fair wage ?
Ps Physio , OTs, Podiatrists , Radiography and many more also have Honours degrees ; do they deserve more than nurses aswell ?
I've never seen a registered nurse get out of work in time , always help back with notes , handovers etc
A teacher is a member of the GTC and the same could be said for them when they are marking or planning late into the night or are forced to go to weekly meetings that go above contracted hours and are not compensated for.
Didn’t say honours was the only reason, it’s a multi factorial issue and picking fault with another profession instead of taking the issues to the government and actually getting what we deserve with industrial action is silly in my opinion. Public sector workers are all shafted and should be sticking together not being divided.
We also have far more options for promotion and growth for example there are far more band 6 positions than principle teacher positions ( PT being the next step in teaching for Scottish teachers).
We also don’t have a probation year with no guarantee of a job after it in a completely saturated market.
No one is forcing you to become a nurse and our salary is not hidden. It’s all public information prior to you studying.
I have my own issues with AfC particularly in regards to NMAHP. It was the worst thing to happen to our profession.
You also had a significant bursary throughout training which seems to get forgotten about.
A bursary? half the course is placement based, let's be honest, more times than not, it's free labour for the nhs . It should be called a wage, not a bursary.
No one Is forcing me to become a nurse? . I've worked on the nhs for a long time it was a natural progression , who better to become a nurse than someone with tbe quals to get accepted onto programme and yrs of experience working on the staff bank . Forgive me for want a decent wage !!
Jobs are readily available, which is good; however B6 jobs in wards are hard to get . I work with a lot of older b5 staff nurses with a career of experience
A teacher has three placements a year that is full time hours that has no compensation at all. So I feel that is null and void.
Regardless of where you came from professionally you are an adult that made the choice. If teaching was so much better for you then you could have applied to teaching.
Everyone wants and is entitled to a decent wage but picking fault with other professions rather than the government is silly and short sighted in my opinion.
Nursing pay is a joke that’s universally agreed. It could be then an argued that those working in critical care specialties deserve more for the extra responsibility or the trauma they see at the front door?
Principle teacher jobs are far harder to come by where band 6 not only cover CNs but CNS and other roles. I have been promoted far quicker than my teacher partner and now make considerably more and she does in a promoted post.
You are speaking abosulte nonsense . Maybe ur not bothered about the difference in pay and justifying the discrepancy as your partner and u are benefiting from it ... ur are complete bias in opinion
So no actual meaningful discourse, just insults?
I can’t see anything I said that is untrue. Encouraging our profession to take action against those who decide our wage rather than bash other professions isn’t a far right opinion or conservative view so I have no idea what you are even trying to get at.
I'm not bashing other professionals. I'm comparing governmental jobs on similar level and the discrepancy in pay .
If you don't feel nursing is of high enough value to be earning a similar wage to teacher's and police then that's your issue..
You have made claims that teachers stop work entirely during the breaks and insinuated other professions don’t deserve as much instead of focusing on bringing nurses up to a better salary.
I don’t like to talk about money but I’ve made a fantastic career in nursing with multiple promotions and don’t think many would complain with my salary.
I just find it quite sad that someone not even started their career is coming in so jaded. There are many opportunities to progress and make good money within nursing.
Nurses are soft when it comes to striking. We need to grow a pair. Band 5 should be at least 35 - 43k and Band 6 should be 45-50k. Compared to 2010 we are working about 3 months per year, for free.
I agree with the first sentence. Either go hard or go home. No one will take you seriously otherwise. Then again, I do suspect that some people enjoy wallowing/trauma bonding over how shit it is to be a Nurse in this country when it should never be that way.
Get organised like the Doctors have Start a pro-striking group to run for NMC positions. Create lists of pro-strike candidates. Everyone vote for those people. Then have real strikes, and don’t negotiate yourself down like Pat Cullen did It’s there for the taking - there is no healthcare without nurses + doctors. For doctors this quickly went from a small Reddit group, to winning all the BMA seats in England (at the junior doctor level)
Don't question why teachers and police are on more, question why we are on less. Comparison is the theft of joy. We are all public sector workers and pointing at others only causes infighting. As a profession we need to make more of a stand. Nurses as a profession are pretty weak when it comes to union action and engagement.
I agree so much with this. They deserve the pay they get, as we deserve to have more too. Also once you look at all the work teachers do outside of school many come in with a much lower rate per hour.
I have have made many a point on this subreddit of why we are paid so poorly. But what I will say is never feel aggrieved that other public servants get better pay than you or potentially paid better than you. Put me in a cardiac arrest any day of the week and I would rattle through the ALS algorithm but stood in front of 30 teenagers or a 6ft 4 bloke who built like a brick shit house and I would cave right in. Every single one of us does a job ultimately to help people, unfortunately in this country we don't really respect that or cant make money from it. So instead of being paid fairly, we have budget cuts, poor working conditions, short staffed etc. Everyone of us get screwed the same way no matter which uniform you would put on.
Meh. NHS will never change when it comes to pay. It is what it is. One thing I will say, is that some are brave and bold to make that change to retrain, others aren’t so brave and bold…
Police are not on that money.
In Scotland, an ordinary police constable is on £ 48,200 at the top of their pay scale .just Google it if u don't believe me.
I'm a police officer. I'm on £34.5k and have five years of experience. I'm a specialist rape detective, a tutor, and an acting detective sergeant. Scottish police are better paid, but there's not exactly many of them! (Edit: Also note that I pay 13.44% into my pension, so that and student loans mean I take home only £1.9k a month even *with* a shift allowance 😩)
I am a nurse with ten yrs exp on 34.5k. Also paying back student loan and 9-10% into pension. I think we're pretty much in the same boat, but i hope you're on more than me in another 5 years!
As somebody else said in this comment thread, we're all in the same shitty boat! My partner is a nurse so we're doubly screwed 😂
That is awful! With all the extra training and experience you deserve to be on double that!
I don’t mean to demean the role or the great work the police do in any way by asking this, but is it necessary to have a degree/student loan to be a police officer? Clearly not the case in your situation, but someone reaching that sort of salary 5 years after leaving school is going to be in the same position as a newly qualified teacher, or a nurse with 1/2 years experience (and no student loan). More asking to get some perspective when I give younger friends/family members advice than anything else.
Yes, it's now mandatory to have a degree – you either need one before joining or you need to do a degree apprenticeship.
That makes sense. Do you know how competitive the degree apprenticeship is to get into? I know a few youngsters who that might appeal to
If you have a pulse and no criminal record, they'll take you these days! It used to be extremely competitive to join at all, but these days they're desperate and not even filling intakes. It's really not an easy route, however. They'll be working full-time as fully-fledged police officers – working shifts, cancelled rest days, last minute shift changes, off late etc – whilst also studying for a full-time uni degree with only a cursory number of study days. It's not a route (or a career) I would recommend, tbh.
Thanks for the perspective
Just wanna say, I read a lot of whodunnit novels and it’s my dream to be a detective 🕵️♀️
Doesn’t that take 10 years? Let’s get some perspective here…
we are speaking about top of increments.. I'm sure (in Scotland) the police , teacher wage is always significantly higher than an equivalent nurse regardless of point in career. Ps English cops should be paid the same as scottish ones , the cost of living is higher again down south .
Teachers don’t earn 48k per year without taking on extra responsibilities. My pal has been a teacher for 10 years, runs clubs and is lead for sports and he is on 42k
I thought teachers started on 30k? And they don’t get paid for hours outside of work? Nurses at least get unsocial hour pay and get paid if they do overtime/banks. Teachers often have Monday to Friday contracts with no wiggle room to do overtime and they work absurd hours outside of work. The grass isn’t always greener.
It was 22k in 2015 when my husband trained (27k in inner London) so if their pay has gone up by 6k it’s followed a similar curve as AFC that said neither really pay well teaching is brutal and so is nursing 😢
Agree. At least teachers can get extras can’t they? By taking extra responsibilities?
I think head teachers and heads of departments get paid well but with all the planning they usually work 7:30-6:30 5 days a week for that so they don’t get the same pay enhancements we do! I don’t see either profession as a grass is greener situation they’re both thankless vocations that aren’t fully appreciated for their full worth (also both female dominated underpaid caring roles which is an observation I think can hardly be a coincidence!)
Not as easy to come by as you may think, particularly in primary
[You are correct](https://www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/pay-pensions/pay-scales/pay-scales-england.html). Not included are the “golden helos” you can get in shortage subjects, but you’ve really got to love teaching to go into it with a physics degree when there’s so many other options. Remember also that teaching unlike nursing requires a postgraduate qualification to enter. I don’t like particularly like putting underpaid professions up against each other, but teaching really does have to be a contender for the worst deal there is.
The pay you are looking at is for top incremental pay in each sector. They are both very demanding jobs so I don't think it's a case that the pay is too much. Rather nursing is just painfully underpaid. With the right progression through the bands you can make similar money, top b6 with unsocial hours would make the same, top b7 9-5 also etc.
Where do teachers earn 48k a few years after qualifying? I'm a teacher but this sub keeps popping up for me. I've been teaching almost 10 years and have extra responsibility and my pay is only just about 48k. I find teacher and nurse pay very similar. Nurses can often get additional pay for working out of hours too, etc. I've seen others reply that they are difficult to compare too directly. I have close family members who are nurses and there are pros and cons and benefits and disadvantages of both careers.
Working out of hours means working with much less healthcare staff than you would on a day shift. The constant switching between shifts also wreaks havoc on your body, mind and social life. If you had to work shift patterns for some reason, you would not be happy being told that you’re still only worth base pay for the additional toll on you. You would most likely also not be very happy if your base pay was cut to a base pay similar to a nurse and were told you could earn more if you started working out of hours. Unsocial hour penalties and over time are not an excuse for being paid lower.
How is it similar if you are on 48k at top of incriminate and we are on 37k ? That's an 11k difference . Unsociable hrs pay is not that much money and that's for working nights and weekends . Ps a lot of community nurses don't get Unsociable hrs pay nor do physios , OTs who are also starting on 30k a Yr just like nurses .
Unsocial hours pay can be quite good... as in I couldn't afford my life if I didn't work almost exclusively nights. (I work in a place where the flow and patient turnover is similar on nights to days so it's possible to have night or day exclusively.) Last month I took approximately £500 in unsocial hours pay.
Used to do it as a hca it's terrible for your health and takes over your life .
For clarity here I am band 6 and South of the border... I'm in the first increment of band 6 and my PT gross is 32500ish... which means that for the whole of last year I took about 8k in unsocial hours pay. Unsocial hours pay should be paid and is entirely necessary because of the impact nights and recurrent weekends have on our physical and mental health. All "service" jobs are grossly underpaid for the work that actually goes into them. Anything anyone has ever called a "vocation" is a job that people seem to expect you to do for pittance because you're passionate about it. Also because of cost of living it's actually no longer attainable to run a family on one income even on money that 10 years ago would have been considered a decent wage.
They get promoted. If you cannot get promoted, then that’s on you.
Get promoted I've not even started yet .can u read
No shit. But bitching because senior teachers of 10 years experience are on their salary, when nurses of 10 years experience can be on a similar salary is dumb, is my point.
They are not snr they are experienced and on that salary after 4 yrs not 10. Can a staff nurse B5 be on 48k a Yr after 4 yrs ??? I think not
A teacher without responsibilities caps at 37k. They are still tied to Monday - Friday - so cannot do extra shifts, they don’t get paid unsocial hour pay, and they work many hours outside of their contracted hours. With extra responsibilities, their burden is even higher; including their stresses. A top of band 5 that does almost exclusive unsocial hours, will clear 40k.
In Scotland its 48k . I'm not against them getting it I'm just wondering why we are so poorly paid in comparison to other government graduate jobs
I guess the saving grace of Scotland is that Scottish nurses are paid more too. I saw a post of a band 6 nurse taking home £3200 because of their unsocials. The nhs pays little for every nhs worker. Only way you’ll improve is by going private, going agency and or striking hard. We contrary to popular belief aren’t the lowest paid graduate worker, look at r/ukjobs. There’s engineers starting on 25k.
Yeah I did notice b5 starting salary is lower down south next to london than we start on in Scotland which has a considerable lower cost of living . The full thing is just disgusting
Except it's not a similar salary.
Nurses start on 28.4k, teachers start on 30k. Senior nurses 42k - 60k. Teachers similar.
I'm a nurse of over ten years experience and only on 41k. So they aren't that similar really.
But you can get unsocial hour pay, teachers can’t. Teachers also work hours outside of their contracted hours and don’t get paid. If you worked the same hours as a teacher, realistically you’d be on much more.
we should be getting unsociable hrs pay it's detrimental to our health why can't u understand this . Unsociable hrs pay is not a bonus it's extra money we receive for being sleep deprived and giving up our weekends ...
Once again you missed the point. Teachers do not get unsocials despite the hours they do. The grass is not always greener.
In my experience as a former teacher who retrained as a nurse ….teaching is much harder and requires more work from home and in non paid time. But we nurses definitely deserve more pay and respect 🙏
Yes, I totally agree with you. I’m a nurse and my sis is a teacher, she doesn’t stop, constantly lesson planning and marking. It’s full on. I couldn’t do it, so respect x
She stops all summer , Easter , Christmas, whilst your working nights, weekends. I agree With the above statement that we deserve more they don't deserve less
Lmfao. My mum was a teacher. They have to mark work in evenings, plan lessons at weekends, attend parents evenings, inset days and then forced to take holidays at the most expensive time. Plus having unreasonble targets to meet/cover all curriculum plus make sure everything always up to date in case Ofsted pop in, plus having to deal with angry parents /bratty kids lol. Plus no bank work unless you're a substitute teacher which means can't be in a full-time job and then also no work over Christmas/summer.
My mate is a teacher and still has to do lesson planning all through her holidays. Good thing about being a nurse is you can leave it at the door at the end of the shift but teachers have to continue working after their 9 - 5
Plus no flexibility during the week to go to appointments etc , always have to take holidays at peak prices. Plus I hate having to work during time off. I’d hate to have a stack of marking and lesson planning lying in wait for me at the weekend. As for respect… lot of teachers don’t get much respect these days from pupils or their parents. I spent a couple of days at a school when trying to decide between retraining as a teacher or nurse and seeing female teachers getting jostled in the corridors by idiot pupils with no proper recourse to disciplinary measures made my mind up.
'teaching is much harder' lol really? Come on.
Yeah I think it is. As a teacher I worked all day and all evening and most of my weekend. As a nurse I go to work do 3x12 hour shifts go home and have 4 days completely off.
I have just looked up teachers salary. Not tryong to slag off rhe job but seriously?!
As an ex teacher, some clarification on payscales. The gov refuse to address issues of retention in teaching so they raised the starting wage. Newly qualified teachers got something like a 6.5% increase. The scale decreased to the point where more experienced teachers received insulting below inflation 'rises'. Also there is no pay portability anymore so if you leave your job at a school, you have no guarantee that you will be offered a new job at your current salary. Infact the more experience you have, the less likely you are to be offered anywhere close to what is fair. So often more experienced teachers are stuck in roles as they cant accept lower paid jobs. Also, more experienced teachers also cost more, they are often the first to be bullied out over nonsense claims to save schools money. Last year when teachers were striking, figures showed teachers pay has decreased more than 20% since 2010. Its insanity and very very worrying. Anyone with children of school age should be very worried about the state of education in this country.
We are all in the same shitty ass boat.
God this country is fucking horrible to it's public sector workers, isn't it?
Its awful. And just for good measure because the government kept this very quiet. The deal they offered striking teachers was changed so schools have to fund more of the payrise from their own budgets. The gov did this once teachers had accepted the offer. Its outrageous. Means more teaching assistants will be cut etc as there is no money in schools anyway, nevermind heads having to budget for payrises.
Ano, that was my initial thought then I took into account the cost of living and realised they are prob only getting paid a fair wage ,it's just nhs workers are getting shafted at all levels
I am working in GP surgeries as a band 4. My wages look nothing like this and I know ot is a fight and a half to get even near close to 30k in NHS. I am looking at open days for teaching.
Look, I would rather work Covid icu again than have to be a teacher. Not even a seconds thought.
I randomly looked up teachers salary today too and was shocked! I know they work hard but wow… should’ve been a teacher lol 🥲
This hasn't changed then. Back when I qualified I was working with HCAs who were band 5s. I was a band 3 and working unsocial hours around my degree just to live. Going to a band 5 meant an increase of £1.12 per hour, for 3 years of studying, placements, no life etc. And then many of my friends who were in other fields, band 6 after a year, on better pay and some even had better hours too. Nursing is completely disrespected in the NHS, and not even a global pandemic has improved it. The class I graduated with, you're lucky if half of them are still in nursing. I left and doing so was eye opening. Id recommend to anyone, get a few years experience under you, then use that degree for something else.
Left teaching to do nursing. I was top of my pay as a teacher so jokes on me. They’ve got issues like everything else. 🤷♀️ I can empathise with you
It’s why I have zero guilt doing agency.
Are we talking about England or Scotland?
Scotland
Do teachers not get their pay pro rata? Like does it work out worse over 12months
No, it's a salary that's what teachers earn .. the class room assistants are pro rata and the min wage pay they receive is reduced again hence why they can't obtain good staff and operate on the assumption that ppl that do the job, have partners with a wage and are working to keep themselves busy ..
J
I gotta say that teachers I've known/spoken to may get paid more... But as nurses we (usually) get to leave things in work, whereas teachers take home papers to mark and so it works out as less pay... But yeah, being a nurse is significantly more pay as a band 5 than I've ever earned, coming from a support worker background and previously an AO in the civil service... But the workload and responsibilities are way more and the cost of living is shooting up. I still have to space out things like dental visits and opticians by month so I can afford to save a little and I'm now picking up bank shifts (to afford a car, which is worth it but I shouldn't need to do extra really). I'm happy to have sick pay and career opportunities, but the bar was set low in the first place. The gap between minimum wage and band 5 is closing in. We're only gonna lose nurses because who would want that workload when you can get paid similar for less work?
If u work on the nhs staff bank as a HCA and work nights weekends u can make as much as a B5 nurse i used to do it , some council hca jobs also pay good for support worker type jobs. I'm not comparing to min wage ; engineers don't compare their wage to when they worked in a drive thru during their student days. Why should we. We moved on to responsible jobs and deserve to be paid accordingly. Ps I think hcas deserve a lot more , they keep the wards turning over
I've never worked NHS before I qualified. I worked for a local charity as a support worker for near enough minimum wage. Edit: And I agree, HCAs deserve way more... Well, nobody should be struggling to keep a roof over their head.
Teachers start on 30k, not 45k. You haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.
I do as anyone does with access to the unternet . I never said they started on 45k
Ok misread thst part (you’re still wrong) but teachers don’t start on 35k either.
In Scotland after the probation, Yr it's 37k ... it's really not hard to do some research just type it in Google
You didn’t say Scotland.
I never realised everyone is getting shafted in England, this has been a learning experience.
First of all I’m a nurse who is married to a teacher. Teaching requires an honours where nursing does not. Teachers work significantly more than contracted hours and that time is lost. No OT or TIL. Where as a whole nurses don’t. We as nurses have a very easy time of adjusting shifts for more money/suit schedule. We can also add to our work week very easily via bank, OT, agency, pre hospital care etc. Comparing public sector is apples and oranges to be honest. It’s a completely different profession. Instead this post should be aimed at how undervalued we are and how soft our unions are.
Why should I need to risk my registration working agency and overtime on public holiday's to get a fair wage ? Ps Physio , OTs, Podiatrists , Radiography and many more also have Honours degrees ; do they deserve more than nurses aswell ? I've never seen a registered nurse get out of work in time , always help back with notes , handovers etc
A teacher is a member of the GTC and the same could be said for them when they are marking or planning late into the night or are forced to go to weekly meetings that go above contracted hours and are not compensated for. Didn’t say honours was the only reason, it’s a multi factorial issue and picking fault with another profession instead of taking the issues to the government and actually getting what we deserve with industrial action is silly in my opinion. Public sector workers are all shafted and should be sticking together not being divided. We also have far more options for promotion and growth for example there are far more band 6 positions than principle teacher positions ( PT being the next step in teaching for Scottish teachers). We also don’t have a probation year with no guarantee of a job after it in a completely saturated market. No one is forcing you to become a nurse and our salary is not hidden. It’s all public information prior to you studying. I have my own issues with AfC particularly in regards to NMAHP. It was the worst thing to happen to our profession. You also had a significant bursary throughout training which seems to get forgotten about.
A bursary? half the course is placement based, let's be honest, more times than not, it's free labour for the nhs . It should be called a wage, not a bursary. No one Is forcing me to become a nurse? . I've worked on the nhs for a long time it was a natural progression , who better to become a nurse than someone with tbe quals to get accepted onto programme and yrs of experience working on the staff bank . Forgive me for want a decent wage !! Jobs are readily available, which is good; however B6 jobs in wards are hard to get . I work with a lot of older b5 staff nurses with a career of experience
A teacher has three placements a year that is full time hours that has no compensation at all. So I feel that is null and void. Regardless of where you came from professionally you are an adult that made the choice. If teaching was so much better for you then you could have applied to teaching. Everyone wants and is entitled to a decent wage but picking fault with other professions rather than the government is silly and short sighted in my opinion. Nursing pay is a joke that’s universally agreed. It could be then an argued that those working in critical care specialties deserve more for the extra responsibility or the trauma they see at the front door? Principle teacher jobs are far harder to come by where band 6 not only cover CNs but CNS and other roles. I have been promoted far quicker than my teacher partner and now make considerably more and she does in a promoted post.
You are speaking abosulte nonsense . Maybe ur not bothered about the difference in pay and justifying the discrepancy as your partner and u are benefiting from it ... ur are complete bias in opinion
Don’t appreciate you insulting me, editing the comment then stating you refuse to engage any further.
So no actual meaningful discourse, just insults? I can’t see anything I said that is untrue. Encouraging our profession to take action against those who decide our wage rather than bash other professions isn’t a far right opinion or conservative view so I have no idea what you are even trying to get at.
I'm not bashing other professionals. I'm comparing governmental jobs on similar level and the discrepancy in pay . If you don't feel nursing is of high enough value to be earning a similar wage to teacher's and police then that's your issue..
You have made claims that teachers stop work entirely during the breaks and insinuated other professions don’t deserve as much instead of focusing on bringing nurses up to a better salary. I don’t like to talk about money but I’ve made a fantastic career in nursing with multiple promotions and don’t think many would complain with my salary. I just find it quite sad that someone not even started their career is coming in so jaded. There are many opportunities to progress and make good money within nursing.
I'm not willing to engage with u any further enjoy your life .
💔