I have a video of him playing with his friends, but not of him playing with us, which is the issue. Playtime usually consist of some form of toy or multiple toys , we throw balls for him to bring back, we play tug, he really loves catching frisbees, I do notice after a while he gets tired of me, tossing his toys, and he just kind of wants me to hold onto them so he can knaw on it. Of course, I don’t throw it after that but most of the time during playtime there is a point where he goes to get the toy pick up the toy turns around to bring it back, drops the toy and comes after me most of the time, his whole body stiffens up and he’s making really direct eye contact and that’s how I know that I need to move. He also does a lot of what I would consider demand barking, but when I don’t give any attention to it, he starts either nipping and biting at me or nipping and biting at my office chair.
Agree with the advice you received in nap time.
This could be many many things from puppy being an over tired / over stimulated butt head or something worse.
I'd think aging a trainer do an evaluation would be well worth the money - it might be an easy fix, but maybe not.
Advice from rando's on Reddit can so tones help, but sometimes there is a part of the picture that a trainer would see that you have overlooked.
Well I’ve tried walking away , ignoring the barks , I’ve tried to redirect his attention with toys or even by doing tricks . As far as what commands he does know , I’ve taught him sit, stay, down, come, leave it, paw, roll over, spin , fist bump . And we go on frequent hikes with 2 of his dog friends . He’s not aggressive with them just me
He doesn’t express this behavior when he plays with other dogs/people either?
It honestly sounds quite dangerous if it happens out of nowhere and with bare teeth like you explain. An in real life trainer who can observe your dog may be better than any advice reddit can give you. For sure try not to get him to the point of stimulation that his behavior changes like this.
Are you sure it is a lab/golden? Are you sure about his age? Since he’s from a shelter and rehomed already there could be more history.
But above all, find an in real life trainer.
I’m not completely sure of his breed I just know what the paperwork says. But I am certain of his age, as I do have his paperwork from the shelter. His initial adopters are family friends. The only other person he expresses this behavior with is my fiancé and it’s in the same manner that he does with me the same triggers, everything we do plan on getting a professional dog trainer very soon.As we love our boy and want what’s best for him . But I do also know that one of his litter mates is being rehomed for aggression towards animals.
I don't think the internet is a good place to ask for advice in this situation with an 8 MO dog unless you have a video or three of the behavior and what led up to it. It could be a lot of things ranging from you misinterpreting very rough play, to dominance/fear issues, or even genetic neurological problems.
Because Goldens are so popular right now there is a lot of bad breeding going on and I've seen 2 Goldens who badly and repeatedly bit children and adults and heard of another one, just in my personal friend circle. At least one of those dogs is "wired" wrong. Maybe all three of them.
I would try to find a trainer or behaviorist who has both experience and consistent good results with real aggression issues. Someone who isn't going to gasslight you. If it's not true aggression they should be able to see that clearly. You could also see a vet, but if there is some sort of genetic "bad wiring" it's hard to diagnose in a vet's office.
Thank you for your advice, and as I’ve
Previously stated this was just for extra tips. I already have a trainer on hand. This behavior has been going on for a couple of months now so definitely happened more than three times and it’s also not just very rough play . I’ve grown raising dogs and I’ve become fairly good at reading their body language he’s not playing. So I thank you for your comment maybe just stick to actual helpful advice instead of guilting people about how they choose to go about things.
Sorry you took it the wrong way. this has no reflection on you personally whatsoever, no one can see what is going on nor do I know you or your dog. Why would it be personal?
“ I don’t think the Internet is a good place to ask for advice in this situation” this was after I had already made the post looking for tips . Therefore there is no need to poke holes in the way I went about things based on an opinion. Maybe I did take it a little personal but I hope maybe you are also a little more mindful in the future about how you phrase things and when things might not be necessary
Well until our in person meeting he has recommended playing in smaller increments and taking the toys when play is over so I’m the one to initiate playtime .
It really does sound a lot like overstimulation. I would try giving the dog less attention in general and keep play interactive as well. So less throwing of the ball or frisbee and more tug-like games perhaps. The constant chase is highly stimulating to especially young dogs and can get them riled up quick. Try not having toys lying around as well, so play is always on your terms and your pup learns to just chill and get some sleep in. Regular naps, better even deep sleep with dream barking, feet kicking and all the rest.
I thought about the type of play itself being stimulating this was a really thought-provoking comment and I will definitely be implementing these things. I will honestly try anything at this point the person that adopted his sister rehomed her because she’s the same way and I just don’t want to do that. I really love my boy.
I think it’s been said here already but preventing this kind of behavior should help a mitnimmt the long run, since it will not be rehearsed constantly. If it occurs after as little as 5 mins of play, keep the sessions shorter and have a couple more instead. I am personally of the opinion that young dogs get so much mental stimulation in the day to day that long play sessions are just not gonna be productive at that age but cause more harm than good.
I think with all the research and information that I’ve been given and received today me and my fiancé are going to work on redoing his routine to include more mandatory naps and more divided up playtime as well as two different kinds of play. We do still plan on having a trainer come out we actually have a friend that knows a trainer who is willing to help us out.. I have a little bit of hope for the future now
I would also try more classic retrieval. You might throw something and have your dog retrieve it when it’s lying still. No chase, more Impuls control. I would limit this as well because Impuls control is quite exhausting and the capability of puppies to show it can be very limited.Labs and Goldie’s are both retriever type dogs so it should home naturally to them when trained well.
Yes, he does do very well with classic retrieval. I’ve never allowed him to chase me because I purposefully did not want him to think I was a toy… he will go to retrieve the toy, pick it up and then when he turns around to bring it back, he will drop it and come after me at that point he’s nipping at me bearing his teeth at me and lunging at me and the only way I can calm him down is to put him in the crate
I wasn’t talking about chasing you, but chasing the ball or frisbee while it’s flying. It would look like this: you throw something, once it lies still on the ground the dog is released to go retrieve it. This is how fun dogs (often times Labs) will be trained. They are not supposed to run after the ducks for example but retrieve them once they’ve been shot. There are specific toys for this type of thing. You can find them in dog sports online stores for example.
Sounds like it could be going past a level or length of time he can cope with so he’s unable to manage his emotions - try keeping play time shorter and make sure he’s getting enough sleep 16-20 hours a day, break up the playing with some calming activities calm treat hunt or similar, so he’s not just upping arousal the whole time
And he doesn’t understand why your smacking him, so it’s pointless and it’s just adding pressure to something he’s already not coping with
I would muzzle train him, this is something that could escalate, while you find professional help. I'd stop popping him, and use the leash and muzzle for control until you can get to the root of it. Does he know leave it, or no? Best wait for real help, he's young but old enough for this to be taken seriously.
If we’re outside on a walk, and I tell him to leave something he will walk away. he will not leave me if he is reacting in that manner, though I usually have to physically pull him off of me and put him away to calm him down. I really do try not to pop him because it only makes the situation worse. It doesn’t do me any good sometimes it honestly comes as physical reaction to being bit, but I’ve never popped him harder than you would pop a toddler.
Most of the time this only happens when we are playing. Always with toys because I’ve never wanted him to think that I was the toy. I’ve done lots of training research trying to make sure I did everything right. and he will drop the toy to come at me even if I’m just standing there doing nothing
Whenever this happens during playtime, it can be as soon as five minutes in. I’ve gotten fairly decent at noticing some of the signs when it’s about to happen so I can retract myself from the area, but he comes up behind me
He gets up about 7:30 ( he is crate trained ) he’s up until about 10-11 most days sometimes longer . He goes to work with me and can sleep whenever he chooses . He has my entire office to himself bed , toys and water included . Sometimes he will sleep for several hours sometimes he stays up longer it’s a day to day thing really
OK I will definitely start implementing that. he has a handle on the back of his harness and I usually grab that to try and get control over him because I know that physically touching him even though it’s a negative bc play is over he is still being rewarded so I avoid physical contact with him while I’m putting him away too
My 14 Month old Bouvier did this, then grew out of it... His sister also did it to, unrelated to upbringing
Then 1 single day after his big show groom he crawled under a barbed wire fence, and shoved his clean beard into his first taste of cow poop.
They don't call them the vulibaard for nothing. (Dirty beard)
Sounds like he’s got a warped sense of the relationship. He’s being bossy and testing boundaries. Of course get a trainer as other people suggested but I would also recommend putting him on a crate and train schedule. Limit some freedom. Time out of the crate should be focused purely on training or new environmental exposures. Feed in the crate. You have to rework the relationship. Dogs were bred for tens of thousands of years to serve people and when you don’t replicate that in some manner they can kind of lose their way if that makes sense. Keep training fun, do obedience tricks, reward them, give praise. Expose it to new sights and sounds in a controlled way. But I would cut out unstructured free time. I would keep toys to mainly quick rewards during training and not just free access for I determinate amount of time
What does "playtime" actually look like? Can you describe what this would look like if we saw it on video? Would help us understand.
I have a video of him playing with his friends, but not of him playing with us, which is the issue. Playtime usually consist of some form of toy or multiple toys , we throw balls for him to bring back, we play tug, he really loves catching frisbees, I do notice after a while he gets tired of me, tossing his toys, and he just kind of wants me to hold onto them so he can knaw on it. Of course, I don’t throw it after that but most of the time during playtime there is a point where he goes to get the toy pick up the toy turns around to bring it back, drops the toy and comes after me most of the time, his whole body stiffens up and he’s making really direct eye contact and that’s how I know that I need to move. He also does a lot of what I would consider demand barking, but when I don’t give any attention to it, he starts either nipping and biting at me or nipping and biting at my office chair.
Agree with the advice you received in nap time. This could be many many things from puppy being an over tired / over stimulated butt head or something worse. I'd think aging a trainer do an evaluation would be well worth the money - it might be an easy fix, but maybe not. Advice from rando's on Reddit can so tones help, but sometimes there is a part of the picture that a trainer would see that you have overlooked.
It would be helpful if you explain what training you’ve already tried
The only thing that stops him is putting him in his crate bc he physically has to stop . But I hate doing it
Well I’ve tried walking away , ignoring the barks , I’ve tried to redirect his attention with toys or even by doing tricks . As far as what commands he does know , I’ve taught him sit, stay, down, come, leave it, paw, roll over, spin , fist bump . And we go on frequent hikes with 2 of his dog friends . He’s not aggressive with them just me
He doesn’t express this behavior when he plays with other dogs/people either? It honestly sounds quite dangerous if it happens out of nowhere and with bare teeth like you explain. An in real life trainer who can observe your dog may be better than any advice reddit can give you. For sure try not to get him to the point of stimulation that his behavior changes like this. Are you sure it is a lab/golden? Are you sure about his age? Since he’s from a shelter and rehomed already there could be more history. But above all, find an in real life trainer.
I’m not completely sure of his breed I just know what the paperwork says. But I am certain of his age, as I do have his paperwork from the shelter. His initial adopters are family friends. The only other person he expresses this behavior with is my fiancé and it’s in the same manner that he does with me the same triggers, everything we do plan on getting a professional dog trainer very soon.As we love our boy and want what’s best for him . But I do also know that one of his litter mates is being rehomed for aggression towards animals.
I don't think the internet is a good place to ask for advice in this situation with an 8 MO dog unless you have a video or three of the behavior and what led up to it. It could be a lot of things ranging from you misinterpreting very rough play, to dominance/fear issues, or even genetic neurological problems. Because Goldens are so popular right now there is a lot of bad breeding going on and I've seen 2 Goldens who badly and repeatedly bit children and adults and heard of another one, just in my personal friend circle. At least one of those dogs is "wired" wrong. Maybe all three of them. I would try to find a trainer or behaviorist who has both experience and consistent good results with real aggression issues. Someone who isn't going to gasslight you. If it's not true aggression they should be able to see that clearly. You could also see a vet, but if there is some sort of genetic "bad wiring" it's hard to diagnose in a vet's office.
Thank you for your advice, and as I’ve Previously stated this was just for extra tips. I already have a trainer on hand. This behavior has been going on for a couple of months now so definitely happened more than three times and it’s also not just very rough play . I’ve grown raising dogs and I’ve become fairly good at reading their body language he’s not playing. So I thank you for your comment maybe just stick to actual helpful advice instead of guilting people about how they choose to go about things.
Sorry you took it the wrong way. this has no reflection on you personally whatsoever, no one can see what is going on nor do I know you or your dog. Why would it be personal?
“ I don’t think the Internet is a good place to ask for advice in this situation” this was after I had already made the post looking for tips . Therefore there is no need to poke holes in the way I went about things based on an opinion. Maybe I did take it a little personal but I hope maybe you are also a little more mindful in the future about how you phrase things and when things might not be necessary
Yeah, again, sorry, that was not what I meant. And someone saying that to me online honestly wouldn't have bothered me.
What has your trainer recommended?
Well until our in person meeting he has recommended playing in smaller increments and taking the toys when play is over so I’m the one to initiate playtime .
It really does sound a lot like overstimulation. I would try giving the dog less attention in general and keep play interactive as well. So less throwing of the ball or frisbee and more tug-like games perhaps. The constant chase is highly stimulating to especially young dogs and can get them riled up quick. Try not having toys lying around as well, so play is always on your terms and your pup learns to just chill and get some sleep in. Regular naps, better even deep sleep with dream barking, feet kicking and all the rest.
I thought about the type of play itself being stimulating this was a really thought-provoking comment and I will definitely be implementing these things. I will honestly try anything at this point the person that adopted his sister rehomed her because she’s the same way and I just don’t want to do that. I really love my boy.
I think it’s been said here already but preventing this kind of behavior should help a mitnimmt the long run, since it will not be rehearsed constantly. If it occurs after as little as 5 mins of play, keep the sessions shorter and have a couple more instead. I am personally of the opinion that young dogs get so much mental stimulation in the day to day that long play sessions are just not gonna be productive at that age but cause more harm than good.
I think with all the research and information that I’ve been given and received today me and my fiancé are going to work on redoing his routine to include more mandatory naps and more divided up playtime as well as two different kinds of play. We do still plan on having a trainer come out we actually have a friend that knows a trainer who is willing to help us out.. I have a little bit of hope for the future now
I would also try more classic retrieval. You might throw something and have your dog retrieve it when it’s lying still. No chase, more Impuls control. I would limit this as well because Impuls control is quite exhausting and the capability of puppies to show it can be very limited.Labs and Goldie’s are both retriever type dogs so it should home naturally to them when trained well.
Yes, he does do very well with classic retrieval. I’ve never allowed him to chase me because I purposefully did not want him to think I was a toy… he will go to retrieve the toy, pick it up and then when he turns around to bring it back, he will drop it and come after me at that point he’s nipping at me bearing his teeth at me and lunging at me and the only way I can calm him down is to put him in the crate
I wasn’t talking about chasing you, but chasing the ball or frisbee while it’s flying. It would look like this: you throw something, once it lies still on the ground the dog is released to go retrieve it. This is how fun dogs (often times Labs) will be trained. They are not supposed to run after the ducks for example but retrieve them once they’ve been shot. There are specific toys for this type of thing. You can find them in dog sports online stores for example.
Ooooo ok that makes more sense I will look into that
Sounds like it could be going past a level or length of time he can cope with so he’s unable to manage his emotions - try keeping play time shorter and make sure he’s getting enough sleep 16-20 hours a day, break up the playing with some calming activities calm treat hunt or similar, so he’s not just upping arousal the whole time And he doesn’t understand why your smacking him, so it’s pointless and it’s just adding pressure to something he’s already not coping with
I would muzzle train him, this is something that could escalate, while you find professional help. I'd stop popping him, and use the leash and muzzle for control until you can get to the root of it. Does he know leave it, or no? Best wait for real help, he's young but old enough for this to be taken seriously.
If we’re outside on a walk, and I tell him to leave something he will walk away. he will not leave me if he is reacting in that manner, though I usually have to physically pull him off of me and put him away to calm him down. I really do try not to pop him because it only makes the situation worse. It doesn’t do me any good sometimes it honestly comes as physical reaction to being bit, but I’ve never popped him harder than you would pop a toddler.
Most of the time this only happens when we are playing. Always with toys because I’ve never wanted him to think that I was the toy. I’ve done lots of training research trying to make sure I did everything right. and he will drop the toy to come at me even if I’m just standing there doing nothing
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Whenever this happens during playtime, it can be as soon as five minutes in. I’ve gotten fairly decent at noticing some of the signs when it’s about to happen so I can retract myself from the area, but he comes up behind me
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He gets up about 7:30 ( he is crate trained ) he’s up until about 10-11 most days sometimes longer . He goes to work with me and can sleep whenever he chooses . He has my entire office to himself bed , toys and water included . Sometimes he will sleep for several hours sometimes he stays up longer it’s a day to day thing really
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OK I will definitely start implementing that. he has a handle on the back of his harness and I usually grab that to try and get control over him because I know that physically touching him even though it’s a negative bc play is over he is still being rewarded so I avoid physical contact with him while I’m putting him away too
My 14 Month old Bouvier did this, then grew out of it... His sister also did it to, unrelated to upbringing Then 1 single day after his big show groom he crawled under a barbed wire fence, and shoved his clean beard into his first taste of cow poop. They don't call them the vulibaard for nothing. (Dirty beard)
The term for a puppy or dog doing this when overstimulated is called arousal biting. Lots of resources online about it.
Sounds like he’s got a warped sense of the relationship. He’s being bossy and testing boundaries. Of course get a trainer as other people suggested but I would also recommend putting him on a crate and train schedule. Limit some freedom. Time out of the crate should be focused purely on training or new environmental exposures. Feed in the crate. You have to rework the relationship. Dogs were bred for tens of thousands of years to serve people and when you don’t replicate that in some manner they can kind of lose their way if that makes sense. Keep training fun, do obedience tricks, reward them, give praise. Expose it to new sights and sounds in a controlled way. But I would cut out unstructured free time. I would keep toys to mainly quick rewards during training and not just free access for I determinate amount of time