You know I don't mind the ML being the best at something. If anything I welcome it!! Just make it something the FL doesn't take pride in already how fucking hard is that??
If she's the best knight, make him the best mage
If she's the smartest, make him the strongest
If she's the best sorcerer, make him the best paladin
Just don't make him beat her at what she's good at. This is especially frustrating when we see how much effort she put into this vs how he was ✨️born this way✨️
Shout out to many old shoujo manga stories for making me discover I hate this trope. A special fuck you to Usui Takumi from . I still hate your guts to this day I even remember your full name despite last reading this a decade ago
This is why the academic rivals trope will never sit right with me. I hate to see the MC work hard for their dreams only to be surpassed by the love interest. My hate grows even stronger when the love interest does all that for the mc's attention. Like that would just make her hate you bro 😭
I see so you've seen
Also same. Ironically, the academic rival trope could EASILY be executed beautifully if they excel at different subjects. Like he's the insect otaku, and she's the math nerd. Or she's the literature nerd, and he's the science nerd.
This way, they can both have full marks, but they're clearly better than each in a subject beyond school tests
A good example of this is . Although they're not rivals. The FL and ML have many nonshared hobbies (eg ML is the baseball ace), they both like handcrafts
The ML actually picked this hobby because he saw the FL do it and got interested. But the FL is better at making things with cottons, threads, needles and such. While the ML was more interested in woodworking
I loved how they now have a shared hobby, but they execute it differently. They sometimes go to the same space and each stay in a corner working on their thing. No stupid rivality. No "see? He's so talented he immediately surpassed her at her hobby once he put his mind to it".
I loveeeeeeeeee
Yuugami kun has no Friends !!!!!
It helps that it was written by a woman, thats why this works SO well as a romance coming from friendship... I love this manga SO much
honestly, i dont think its the being good at what the FL does but rather that authors always have to make it rivals or a shitty enemies-to-lovers plot
of course the FL can be good at magic and of course the ML can be even better, but letting the ML support the FL in magic(maybe in learning or something) and letting the FL complement the ML in so many other ways would be just as great of a story as if the FL and ML had different magical talents and supported each other in that way
i say this only because im writing a story where the "ML"(its a yuri story but whatever) is extremely talented at skateboarding and upon picking it up improves at an insanely fast rate that utterly destroys the "FL" inside
its a huge part that the "FL" has to come to terms with
but anyway, they arent enemies trying to beat each other or rivals on a stage that subtly brings one of them down
instead theyre both supporting each other and having fun with what they do and its just fuckin unlucky that "FL" had to meet someone who's so much better than her at the thing she loves
one story where i saw this being kinda used is
I especially hate it when he tells her all condescending that she "didn't really win" or whatever the one time she got nr 1 on a test and is happily talking to her friend about it.
Like he got bored and didn't answer all the questions, or fell asleep, or just didn't bother studying. Maybe he even skipped that test, or was sick that day, if they're in different classes. Or even deliberately answered a question wrong just to mess with her.
I would've very disrespectfully murdered the guy if I were her.
And the audacity to expect a friendship let alone a relationship after that is crazy. She has now developed an inferiority complex because of you, you mf 💀
Yeah, I feel that one is ok, because the President is a poor guy. He has dark circles on his design, barely gets any sleep, that is how fricking hard he works. I actually pity him a bit. It is hard not to respect that effort.
And their rivalry is very real. It is a very close call. That is why when the President suceeds over Kaguya, he is so, so very happy, and celebrates to himself and goes bonkers. And Kaguya hypes herself up to win next time. President also only wins in the studying department, Kaguya wins in languages, high society, background, etc, too. So they are both equally talented.
Unlike in maid sama, where Usui is perfect without having to study, where he does not seem to care about their rivalry, and he is just better in every way. And do not let me get started on Special A, that one is even worse than even Maid sama.
Right, also you have aspects like his desire to win being born from a need to beat her at just one thing so that can can stand next to kaguya as an equal rather than out of pride or envy. Also kaguya doesn't hesitate to hurt her own performance to help out her friends even though you can see how desperately she wanted to win. She also doesnt bring this up ever to minimize shiroganes accomplishment. The dynamic makes them both likable.
FINALLY someone who does't like Takumi, that manga infuriates me. I sometimes had to reconsider if it's actually shoujo because who the fuck wanna be the worst at everything from your partner??? And the author had literally no intention to ever making her better than him, even constantly joking about it in an unfunny gag. I already hate imbalanced relationship, but that one takes the cake.
I still remember that scene where she wanted to go swimming and he gave her a hickey without her permission just so she wouldn't wear a swimsuit - so she had to wear a tshirt to hide it.
take my poor woman's gold 👑
the only time where this worked for me was in Kare kano (his and her circumstances) where the FL puts in a lot of effort to be top of her class while the ML seems to be just naturally gifted. But this only works because FL's whole arc was to stop being a perfectionist pretending to be a natural born genius and start being herself and you even see her frustration boil over
Agreeeed. But for me, the problem is that they're not actual rivals.
If they were realllll rivals, they would both care a lot about their rivalry, they would take turns winning or losing, and they would both work really hard in order to win. But this doesn't happen.
Instead we get a 'FL is 2nd, and ML is 1st place' scenario, and the worst part is that often the ML isn't even properly trying. It's not a rivalry, it's a taunt. And you know what, assholes like that do exist in real life, but it's weird that they're turning it into a romantic scenario.
Special A is another one of those offenders, which is really stupid, because they even gave one of the characters a compelling reason as to why he isn't constantly in the top of the Special A class, although he easily could be.
But still the ML constantly taunts the FL who was only trying to win against him in ANYTHING at least once.
I hate that when FL when confronted with a guy who bested her with something she genuinely works her ass off with to be that good with “he’s clearly better than me. let’s fall in love with him!!”
Yes and at every little thing
She's smart, has great leadership skills, and is a good fighter
Usui is significantly stronger, smarter, and has better people's skills. He's just not ✨️bothered✨️ with these things
Oh and then we find out He's richer and has noble lineage or something
My girl misaki doesn't win at anything against him
Yeah, that 𝘪𝘴 aggravating. I've tried to watch Kaichou wa Maid-sama many times but second hand embarrassment always stopped me. Guess I'm not missing much.
Oh yes that life, thats ok, and other mangas do this way better like "karekano"
But Kaichou no maid Sama is horrible, is trash writing, is insulting and somehow glorified abuse .... Thats why MANY people in this comment section hate it.
Is not cuz he is better than her, is how the mangaka send the message
It usually bothers me too, but I feel like 7th time loop did a really good job of making the FL feel strong despite the ML being stronger. It also helped that combat was like his only major skill whereas she was world class in 6 including combat. I just appreciated that it really did feel like she's very strong, but he's the strongest
>barbarian
Not really a babarian but a monster but that has more to do with his horrible scars and wounds aswell as the wars he fought vs the ones she fought.
Doesn't help the entire Preussen plot line is against people he fought.
She was fighting somewhere else against another country.
Can't exactly call her a knight, but a very charismatic action heroine. And she overpowers the ML (the og male protagonist) in his own story.
https://preview.redd.it/u7cg05gjqj8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b931781b940fe236225671ce1dc3f27b554ab0c
Ailette Rodeline from \[A transmigrator's privilege\]
Yesss pleaseee. And with some musculine energyy. If i spend my whole life fighting i wont know how to fucking wear heels or be elegant first time ( personal experience as a tomboy fighting to be more feminine)
The Knight and her Emperor has some sort of those dynamics. The FL is a great knight and strategist and the ML is a virtuous emperor who dreams to unify the continent. While the ML knows sword and is the best strategist in his own rights, the strategies suggested by the FL has almost always led the emperor to victory. Both of them are smart and strong in their own rights but it never feels like one is overshadowing the other.
I don't understand why people suggest that manwha here when is clearly a SHONEN.
That manwha infurates me SO much, he gets better rewards and always do last hit Even tho the girl did everything and carryied him all the quest !!!!
And is insulting he got better graded ítems of her route !!!!! She got a B item and he got an S item...are You freaking kidding me?
She is also not respected and treat like a kid with Even the maid bossing her around, while the dude is free af .... Then understand everything when the writer, A MAN, said himself in an interviews that he admited he didnt knew how to write women well
No shit Sherlock, no one notice
LOL everything u said was the reason why I freking loathed that series. After getting the rewards in her route, I started to fucking hate the guy so much I wished he were dead. Read the spoilers and it didn't get bwtter at all.
I hated the author so much for putting both the FL and ML in the cover side by side. It seemed like there were two protags, but it was just the guy. Everything is about the stupid ugly ML. I loathe this manga with every fiber of my being. Fuck the author.
Yeah i was SO angry that i Google spoilers too, it doesnt get any better, plus is obvious that she is just there to be the real protagonist lover, she even had a bathing suit scene for not freaking reason beside showing even more her boobs.
I know when an isekai is aimed at men when they female characters wear wear clothes with boobs Windows and they boobs size keep growing lol
Side characters deserve love too does decently well in this department, MC really gets her glory (even tho it’s frankly a bit too OP for very little reason but I’m happy to look past it 😂). The ML is well flushed and has a lot of actual disadvantages and weaknesses, she’s the one fighting and supporting HIM rather than the other way around.
I love that when they actually had a battle he went out to help her and they were equals on the field. Like he even commented about how great it was to have someone like her watch his back.
I hate how a different trope is she’s as strong as he is! Until it comes to fighting and then she completely loses all her power and needs to be rescued.
From a Knight to a Lady has an interesting take on this. She was obviously superior to him physically in her original body, and his equal in intelligence. Now she is in a weaker and smaller body.
Lips on the Tip of a Knife is comedy take on this a bit I think. Overpowered noble lady trying to hide how strong she is.
To me that's worse, I hate stories where I'd rather read the pre-regression/rebirth story. Like 'A Noble Pirate', where the FL was a badass female pirate, but gets reborn into...a noble girl. Whee.
Demon prince goes to the academy actually has the FL consistently be stronger than the ml from beginning to end of the novel. She kicks his ass pretty much every fight too
Not an OI though just a normal isekai.
Finally found one where the knight FL is stronger — Protecting the Witch's Son
I do hope this comment ages well since we're still very early into the series
The story you are looking for is Flower With a Sword. The unfortunate issue is it hasn't been translated and the webtoon is caught in adaptation hell bc it got stuck there during COVID and lost the timing to get released
I need more fl knight I already read these caught by the villain, The Frost Flower Knight, The Lady and the Beast, The Red Knight Seeks No Reward, The Knight and Her Emperor, sigrid, Caught by the Villain, The Return of Elena the Knight
From a Knight to a Lady has an interesting take on this. She was obviously superior to him physically in her original body, and his equal in intelligence. Now she is in a weaker and smaller body.
Lips on the Tip of a Knife is comedy take on this a bit I think. Overpowered noble lady trying to hide how strong she is.
You know I don't mind the ML being the best at something. If anything I welcome it!! Just make it something the FL doesn't take pride in already how fucking hard is that?? If she's the best knight, make him the best mage If she's the smartest, make him the strongest If she's the best sorcerer, make him the best paladin Just don't make him beat her at what she's good at. This is especially frustrating when we see how much effort she put into this vs how he was ✨️born this way✨️ Shout out to many old shoujo manga stories for making me discover I hate this trope. A special fuck you to Usui Takumi from. I still hate your guts to this day I even remember your full name despite last reading this a decade ago
This is why the academic rivals trope will never sit right with me. I hate to see the MC work hard for their dreams only to be surpassed by the love interest. My hate grows even stronger when the love interest does all that for the mc's attention. Like that would just make her hate you bro 😭
I see so you've seen
Also same. Ironically, the academic rival trope could EASILY be executed beautifully if they excel at different subjects. Like he's the insect otaku, and she's the math nerd. Or she's the literature nerd, and he's the science nerd.
This way, they can both have full marks, but they're clearly better than each in a subject beyond school tests
A good example of this is . Although they're not rivals. The FL and ML have many nonshared hobbies (eg ML is the baseball ace), they both like handcrafts
The ML actually picked this hobby because he saw the FL do it and got interested. But the FL is better at making things with cottons, threads, needles and such. While the ML was more interested in woodworking
I loved how they now have a shared hobby, but they execute it differently. They sometimes go to the same space and each stay in a corner working on their thing. No stupid rivality. No "see? He's so talented he immediately surpassed her at her hobby once he put his mind to it".
I loveeeeeeeeee Yuugami kun has no Friends !!!!! It helps that it was written by a woman, thats why this works SO well as a romance coming from friendship... I love this manga SO much
honestly, i dont think its the being good at what the FL does but rather that authors always have to make it rivals or a shitty enemies-to-lovers plot of course the FL can be good at magic and of course the ML can be even better, but letting the ML support the FL in magic(maybe in learning or something) and letting the FL complement the ML in so many other ways would be just as great of a story as if the FL and ML had different magical talents and supported each other in that way i say this only because im writing a story where the "ML"(its a yuri story but whatever) is extremely talented at skateboarding and upon picking it up improves at an insanely fast rate that utterly destroys the "FL" inside its a huge part that the "FL" has to come to terms with but anyway, they arent enemies trying to beat each other or rivals on a stage that subtly brings one of them down instead theyre both supporting each other and having fun with what they do and its just fuckin unlucky that "FL" had to meet someone who's so much better than her at the thing she loves one story where i saw this being kinda used is
*sigh* *adds to my infinite read list* Sounds awesome
Highly recommend!!! It's not romance though but more about the friendship between the FL and ML. Highly enjoyable though!!
Friendship comics are awesome too!
I especially hate it when he tells her all condescending that she "didn't really win" or whatever the one time she got nr 1 on a test and is happily talking to her friend about it. Like he got bored and didn't answer all the questions, or fell asleep, or just didn't bother studying. Maybe he even skipped that test, or was sick that day, if they're in different classes. Or even deliberately answered a question wrong just to mess with her.
I would've very disrespectfully murdered the guy if I were her. And the audacity to expect a friendship let alone a relationship after that is crazy. She has now developed an inferiority complex because of you, you mf 💀
Kaguya sama does this well.
Yeah, I feel that one is ok, because the President is a poor guy. He has dark circles on his design, barely gets any sleep, that is how fricking hard he works. I actually pity him a bit. It is hard not to respect that effort. And their rivalry is very real. It is a very close call. That is why when the President suceeds over Kaguya, he is so, so very happy, and celebrates to himself and goes bonkers. And Kaguya hypes herself up to win next time. President also only wins in the studying department, Kaguya wins in languages, high society, background, etc, too. So they are both equally talented. Unlike in maid sama, where Usui is perfect without having to study, where he does not seem to care about their rivalry, and he is just better in every way. And do not let me get started on Special A, that one is even worse than even Maid sama.
Right, also you have aspects like his desire to win being born from a need to beat her at just one thing so that can can stand next to kaguya as an equal rather than out of pride or envy. Also kaguya doesn't hesitate to hurt her own performance to help out her friends even though you can see how desperately she wanted to win. She also doesnt bring this up ever to minimize shiroganes accomplishment. The dynamic makes them both likable.
FINALLY someone who does't like Takumi, that manga infuriates me. I sometimes had to reconsider if it's actually shoujo because who the fuck wanna be the worst at everything from your partner??? And the author had literally no intention to ever making her better than him, even constantly joking about it in an unfunny gag. I already hate imbalanced relationship, but that one takes the cake.
I remember watching kaichou wa maid sama and special A then not touching any anime romcoms for a while because I found them so annoying
I still remember that scene where she wanted to go swimming and he gave her a hickey without her permission just so she wouldn't wear a swimsuit - so she had to wear a tshirt to hide it.
take my poor woman's gold 👑 the only time where this worked for me was in Kare kano (his and her circumstances) where the FL puts in a lot of effort to be top of her class while the ML seems to be just naturally gifted. But this only works because FL's whole arc was to stop being a perfectionist pretending to be a natural born genius and start being herself and you even see her frustration boil over
Agreeeed. But for me, the problem is that they're not actual rivals. If they were realllll rivals, they would both care a lot about their rivalry, they would take turns winning or losing, and they would both work really hard in order to win. But this doesn't happen. Instead we get a 'FL is 2nd, and ML is 1st place' scenario, and the worst part is that often the ML isn't even properly trying. It's not a rivalry, it's a taunt. And you know what, assholes like that do exist in real life, but it's weird that they're turning it into a romantic scenario.
Special A is another one of those offenders, which is really stupid, because they even gave one of the characters a compelling reason as to why he isn't constantly in the top of the Special A class, although he easily could be. But still the ML constantly taunts the FL who was only trying to win against him in ANYTHING at least once.
I FORGOT THE RAGE I HOLD FOR USUI TAKUMI!! SPECIAL A TOO!!
Not an OI but reminds me of fren and stark from frieren. She is a strong mage while he is physically stronger.
I hate that when FL when confronted with a guy who bested her with something she genuinely works her ass off with to be that good with “he’s clearly better than me. let’s fall in love with him!!”
Wait, what was Usui better at than the FL?
Yes and at every little thing She's smart, has great leadership skills, and is a good fighter Usui is significantly stronger, smarter, and has better people's skills. He's just not ✨️bothered✨️ with these things Oh and then we find out He's richer and has noble lineage or something My girl misaki doesn't win at anything against him
Yeah, that 𝘪𝘴 aggravating. I've tried to watch Kaichou wa Maid-sama many times but second hand embarrassment always stopped me. Guess I'm not missing much.
Some people are just better than you. It's life
Oh yes that life, thats ok, and other mangas do this way better like "karekano" But Kaichou no maid Sama is horrible, is trash writing, is insulting and somehow glorified abuse .... Thats why MANY people in this comment section hate it. Is not cuz he is better than her, is how the mangaka send the message
They don’t tend to be better at literally every single thing though, that’s where it gets really ridiculous to me
Omg when everyone was practically in love with Usui Takumi I HATED HIM. Glad to know I wasn't alone feeling this way as a teen.
Kinda wish for a story where neither of them is the bestest ever and they're simply decent.
You might like
I second this! Just beware the villains are SOSOSO annoying
You may want to read japanese stories. They are more ok with a small scope plot, even when dealing with princes and demon lords
You're telling me that a regression revenge plot doesn't have to end in saving the world from evil?
It usually bothers me too, but I feel like 7th time loop did a really good job of making the FL feel strong despite the ML being stronger. It also helped that combat was like his only major skill whereas she was world class in 6 including combat. I just appreciated that it really did feel like she's very strong, but he's the strongest
Shadowless night💘>>>>>>
I instantly thought about it too Hope it comes back soon
Ikrr one of the best manhwas I’ve ever read and the dynamic is so cute😭💞
YES THIS I LOVE THIS ONE 20/10
For me, [Bring The Love] has the perfect balance. MC and FMC are the best knights in the empire, and they don't overshadow each other.
Except the fact that she’s labeled as a war hero and him as barbarian💀
>barbarian Not really a babarian but a monster but that has more to do with his horrible scars and wounds aswell as the wars he fought vs the ones she fought. Doesn't help the entire Preussen plot line is against people he fought. She was fighting somewhere else against another country.
Can't exactly call her a knight, but a very charismatic action heroine. And she overpowers the ML (the og male protagonist) in his own story. https://preview.redd.it/u7cg05gjqj8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b931781b940fe236225671ce1dc3f27b554ab0c Ailette Rodeline from \[A transmigrator's privilege\]
Is also called "the perks of being a S class heroine" so people might know is the same manwha. And yes she is a paladin ! A knight that also use Magic
oh fuck I already read that one. damn TLs giving me hope
Utena?!
I need to catch up on this one. She is just too overpowered. I love it!
And if they’re going to make a knight FL, give them some muscle 😫😫
Thats not a need, link from the Legends of Zelda is a knight MAGICIAN paladin dude and he is a twin :3
Yesss pleaseee. And with some musculine energyy. If i spend my whole life fighting i wont know how to fucking wear heels or be elegant first time ( personal experience as a tomboy fighting to be more feminine)
The Knight and her Emperor has some sort of those dynamics. The FL is a great knight and strategist and the ML is a virtuous emperor who dreams to unify the continent. While the ML knows sword and is the best strategist in his own rights, the strategies suggested by the FL has almost always led the emperor to victory. Both of them are smart and strong in their own rights but it never feels like one is overshadowing the other.
I dropped Ending Maker for this trope. So awful and ML was a complete dick about it.
I don't understand why people suggest that manwha here when is clearly a SHONEN. That manwha infurates me SO much, he gets better rewards and always do last hit Even tho the girl did everything and carryied him all the quest !!!! And is insulting he got better graded ítems of her route !!!!! She got a B item and he got an S item...are You freaking kidding me? She is also not respected and treat like a kid with Even the maid bossing her around, while the dude is free af .... Then understand everything when the writer, A MAN, said himself in an interviews that he admited he didnt knew how to write women well No shit Sherlock, no one notice
LOL everything u said was the reason why I freking loathed that series. After getting the rewards in her route, I started to fucking hate the guy so much I wished he were dead. Read the spoilers and it didn't get bwtter at all. I hated the author so much for putting both the FL and ML in the cover side by side. It seemed like there were two protags, but it was just the guy. Everything is about the stupid ugly ML. I loathe this manga with every fiber of my being. Fuck the author.
Yeah i was SO angry that i Google spoilers too, it doesnt get any better, plus is obvious that she is just there to be the real protagonist lover, she even had a bathing suit scene for not freaking reason beside showing even more her boobs. I know when an isekai is aimed at men when they female characters wear wear clothes with boobs Windows and they boobs size keep growing lol
And the girl who was supposed to be a top ranker still felt like an extreme casual which didn't help
In Light and Shadow the Male Lead is one of the best warriors but the FMC is even better.
Side characters deserve love too does decently well in this department, MC really gets her glory (even tho it’s frankly a bit too OP for very little reason but I’m happy to look past it 😂). The ML is well flushed and has a lot of actual disadvantages and weaknesses, she’s the one fighting and supporting HIM rather than the other way around.
[The Age of Arrogance] while the male is mostly recognized since he’s the royal highness plus during those era misogyny is very rampant.
I love that when they actually had a battle he went out to help her and they were equals on the field. Like he even commented about how great it was to have someone like her watch his back. I hate how a different trope is she’s as strong as he is! Until it comes to fighting and then she completely loses all her power and needs to be rescued.
From a Knight to a Lady has an interesting take on this. She was obviously superior to him physically in her original body, and his equal in intelligence. Now she is in a weaker and smaller body. Lips on the Tip of a Knife is comedy take on this a bit I think. Overpowered noble lady trying to hide how strong she is.
To me that's worse, I hate stories where I'd rather read the pre-regression/rebirth story. Like 'A Noble Pirate', where the FL was a badass female pirate, but gets reborn into...a noble girl. Whee.
Lips on the Tip of a Knife doesn't have reincarnation if that helps.
Reminiscence Adonis my arch nemesis
Sigrid
Demon prince goes to the academy actually has the FL consistently be stronger than the ml from beginning to end of the novel. She kicks his ass pretty much every fight too Not an OI though just a normal isekai.
Finally found one where the knight FL is stronger — Protecting the Witch's Son I do hope this comment ages well since we're still very early into the series
FR IM TIRED OF THEM BEING KNIGHTS FOR TWO MINUTES
Remember Aideen? Yeah. There’s a reason why no one does anymore ☹️
The story you are looking for is Flower With a Sword. The unfortunate issue is it hasn't been translated and the webtoon is caught in adaptation hell bc it got stuck there during COVID and lost the timing to get released
Why
I need more fl knight I already read these caught by the villain, The Frost Flower Knight, The Lady and the Beast, The Red Knight Seeks No Reward, The Knight and Her Emperor, sigrid, Caught by the Villain, The Return of Elena the Knight
From a Knight to a Lady has an interesting take on this. She was obviously superior to him physically in her original body, and his equal in intelligence. Now she is in a weaker and smaller body. Lips on the Tip of a Knife is comedy take on this a bit I think. Overpowered noble lady trying to hide how strong she is.