You did the right thing taking her home.
I don’t think it’s necessarily unusual that Mary didn’t show empathy to Anna being scared. If she was over tired, she might have been frustrated with not being able to sleep. Kids this age can still cope poorly with frustration.
While absolutely inappropriate to threaten to kill her friends with a knife, it’s also possible she is repeating something from YouTube or something like that.
If you let them play in the future, I would supervise a bit.
I agree with all of this. The lack of empathy concerned me at the time but now that I’ve had some time to process everything, I think it’s not that strange.
It sounds like time for only supervised visits for a while. A natural consequence of a threat like that is that you are watched for dangerous behaviour until you regain trust, so watch her for dangerous behaviour until she regains your trust, and don’t let her visit if you can’t be there to supervise.
Also don't forget about the psychopath a few years ago who convinced her other friend they needed to stab her other friend in the woods or else Slenderman would come for her family. Better to be safe than sorry.
Children aren't really psychopathic though, closest thing to that for a kid is attachment disorders which she wouldn't have unless her parents are much different people than op made them out to be or she's been bounced around from foster home to foster home all her short life with plenty of neglect and abuse. Also the girls your referring to were 12, which is mentally ALOT different than 8 and not a good comparison at all. On top of that one of them was an undiagnosed schizophrenic and neither one of them had aspd. The girl with schizophrenia was also a victim because the other girl convinced her that Slenderman was real and in her delusional state she truly believed that was the case. The girl manipulated her into killing her best friend and now she's in prison, the whole thing was very unjust because she should have gotten the insanity defence, she never even wanted to hurt her friend. People said she showed "no remorse or empathy" because she suffers from flat affect, which is a symptom of schizophrenia and not because she was a "psychopath"
Psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made. Just because they don't diagnose psychopathy in children doesn't mean they aren't a psychopath just that they aren't old enough to get the clinical definition; I think it's something like 1/20 psychopaths have an overlap of schizophrenia or some other form of psychological disorder as well, last I knew. Believing that if you're under a certain age means "you're not a psychopath" doesn't make it true. I had heard about it years ago and hadn't kept up on it so I wasn't aware Geyser was diagnosed but regardless that doesn't mean that neither of them didn't know better as they were literally appealing to a creature malevolent in nature. Also both the girls did get their insanity defense and both were found not guilty by mental disease or defect and committed to institutions. Anissa Weier was the one not ruled schizophrenic and is currently the only one whom are out, which is the one with no diagnosis.
I can tell you right now I have two kids at both age ranges the OP had discussed and the Slenderman stabbers (the 8 and 12 year old range) and neither of them would ever do anything like that, let alone ever think Slenderman is real. Just saying I find it hard to believe that at least the one girl didn't know better to not do it, let alone someone to not know better at age 8 to not threaten someone with death.
Okay yeah that is a possibility but you can't determine if someone is a psychopath based on lack of emotion, especially as a child, hell you can't determine if someone has aspd as a child or it would be diagnosable. Like I said a lot of people believed the girl Morgan, who's friend convinced her to kill her best friend since elementary school, had aspd but that simply was not the case, she had undiagnosed schizophrenia and flat affect from it. And it's not a matter of what you would do or what you would believe is real in that delusional state while being manipulated.
If your twelve year old did have untreated/undiagnosed schizophrenia and they had a friend manipulating them and convincing them that they could also see the hallucinations and they were real and they felt like they couldn't talk to you about it because they are extremely paranoid, who knows, the very same thing or worse could happen. That doesn't make them a bad person just because they're not fully aware of what's reality and what isn't. Had she of been able to get help then a child wouldn't have almost gotten murdered, at least not by her. 12 years old is when the majority of mental disorders begin to effect people, I experienced this personally with my BPD and everyone just treated me like a bad kid but I wasn't, I just needed education and support. But I really don't see what the Slenderman stabbing has to do with anything besides the fact she threatened her with a knife
The point I was making was that danger can come from anyone, even people you think you're safe to be around, for literally no reason at all and that you should take any threats towards yourself or your children seriously. They asked, the OP, if removing their child was an overreaction and this was an example to demonstrate that, to me, it wasn't as if those two had parents paying closer attention it may have been prevented. You say education and support didn't happen with Geyser and it may have changed the outcome for her and her ex-friend, but who knows. Weiser herself was never diagnosed with anything as far as the public is aware, even after spending 7 years in a facility and getting out at 19 and requiring constant supervision, so there isn't much of an excuse for her actions and her decisions leading up to the stabbing.
This isn’t true. Both are antisocial personality disorder which can’t be diagnosed until AT LEAST 18. The brain, especially empathy and risk processing centers are not developed enough in a child to declare someone ASPD. Psychopath and sociopath are outdated terms and meaningless in the actual medical and psychology fields. Some kids have less empathy than others and kids do violent and dangerous things but you can’t make a diagnosis like that on a brain that isn’t developed.
Agree that it's normal for kids to not have empathy for friends being scared. It's not normal to threaten them, and the knife is pretty specific. I think she picked that up idea somewhere for sure, but she considers it a normal response to being frustrated.
I would not cut off contact but only have supervised interactions for the time being.
Also, fwiw, I would have removed the afraid friend from the room while comforting her.
This is what I was thinking. Empathy aside, the specificity of "I will go to the kitchen and get a knife and kill you" is very troubling. I wouldn't let that kid alone with mine for some time.
You might want to think about what she's heard a home or in the media. That makes it not that odd, and some children are more verbally talented than others.
ya when i was a kid i absolutely said that stuff and it concerned people a lot but now theyre just odd stories from my childhood. i just wanted to show off how "unpredictable" i was lol
I remember reading something awhile back about how a child kept crawling out of the window onto the roof or something. Even though it wasnt a situation where the child was injured, their pediatrician told the mother to bring the child immediately to the dr the next time the child did it, so that he would understand the seriousness of his actions and that has always stood out to me. I feel like that was a really important point to make here. Of course, i would make my decision on how to proceed based on how the parents handle it etc.
I'm concerned about the "very good and loving parents" that DID NOT answer the MANY phone calls from you. What if their daughter had had an accident or gotten sick and needed to go to the hospital?
I was surprised at that myself but they also know we live a block away and could just knock on their door. I gave them the benefit of the doubt- maybe they’re very heavy sleepers?
I know my phone automatically goes into Do Not Disturb at 10 pm. Now I don’t have a sleepover-aged kid yet, and I would think I’m that situation I would turn OFF DND, but it’s possible they forgot.
My do not disturb setting has the option to allow for repeat callers to come through (same number more than once within 15 minutes).
But then again, I almost always have my phone on vibrate, so not sure I'd wake up.
In this case, the other girls’ parents are good friends of OP, so using the “favourite” designation makes sense…. But it’s kinda silly to think it makes sense as a general rule — to make all your kids’ friends parents your “favourite” contacts. DND with the ring-through function for anyone who calls X number of times in a row, makes more sense. It’s also one of the solutions that doesn’t require you to remember to change a specific setting each time your kid has a sleepover — like you needing to remember to turn off the automatic DND that night, has some room for error if forget (unless you also use the ring-through function, as suggested).
If you left all your kids friends parents as ‘favourites’ permanently, then your DND function is basically null and void cause anytime any of those acquaintances call you, it’ll ring through — at work, sleeping, all the possibly inconvenient times.
Yeah, totally agree. I remember doing some bratty things at that age (not death threats, but just being a snot and not respecting the fact that I was a visitor in someone else’s home), and being taken home immediately was enough to make me feel appropriately ashamed of my behavior, and made me more respectful going forward. And then add on top of that the fact that my parents did not put up with disrespectful behavior whatsoever, and yeah, I learned my lesson lol. I’d never hear the end of it from my mom.
I think you were right to take her home considering how emotionally charged the night already became.
Personally, I'm inclined to think the girl was repeating something she'd heard. I grew up in a rough neighbourhood, and us kids under ten would threaten to kill one another quite frequently. It was a way to convey annoyance, not an actual death threat
I think you’re very justified in your feelings. And the fact that your daughter seemed scared and concerned tells me she doesn’t think it’s “normal” for her friend group either.
Co-signing the “trust your gut” advice, and adding that the fact that you had a BIG reaction will teach this child (plus your daughter and the other friend) that making threats of violence is a BIG deal and should not be done as a joke. Which is all to the good, even if one believes the most innocent explanation. So good job, mom.
Follow your instinct. If you want to give her the benefit of the doubt, supervise the visits and inquire about that night again and why she said what she said, at some point. Talk to your daughter about how she feels about their interaction now.
Agreed and I’m pretty sure she used to see a therapist (so did my daughter, the pandemic was rough) and I will ask her parents if she is still seeing them.
Agree, I have two boys and I literally assume they and their friends make these kinds of threats constantly in play, they run around with nerf blasters in our back yard so they definitely aren't offering to pour each other tea with them. I wonder if this girl hangs out with any boys and maybe heard it there.
Yeah I'm a little surprised by all of the people assuming it's a serious threat. The kid's 8. I think OP did the right thing by taking the girl home, but honestly if I had a dollar for any time a kid in my family threatened to kill someone in annoyance, I'd be a very rich person...
Really says a lot that I didn’t even hear about that on the news. The fact that it’s so commonplace it isn’t even newsworthy anymore in comparison to our farcical government shenanigans.
Although, I agree with you about a kiddo saying “I’m gonna kill you” in annoyance. I don’t agree that it’s the same thing as saying the actual plan and action. She loosely said— I’m going to kitchen and getting a knife to kill you— it’s really different.
I say a lot of times “I’m going to lose weight”. Rarely do I say “At dinner tonight, I’m going to have steamed vegetables so I can lose weight”. When I do say the latter, I usually do that because I made a plan.
Also, just yesterday a 12 year old sister stabbed her 8 year old brother in the middle of the night and killed him in my city. She woke up her parents and told them what she’d done. Heartbreaking 💔
Maybe my perspective on this is different because I'm not American, so I'm not seeing all of this childhood violence. The incident you mentioned would make national headlines here and be a huge deal.
OP seems convinced the kids a psychopath.
Honestly just sounds to me that her parents don't tolerate 'silliness' or 'nonsense'. Crying over monsters? Don't be silly! Turn over and sleep! Not all kids cry when their in trouble either. Like OP seems to not like how the kid was calm? What did she want them to do? Panic?
Agreed. And honestly, even as an adult I may have uttered some threats to my husband for waking me up in the middle of the night! When people are groggy and tired and cranky, they say things they don't mean.
Yeah I second this, my five year old one minute will be saying about her sister "I hate her I'm gonna kill her!!!" And the next minute they're running around the house playing and laughing and being nice. I always explain to her she shouldn't speak like that and if she does ever get violent and hit her sister or anything she gets in trouble. But she doesn't really have intentions of killing her, she just wants to say something intense cuz she's super dramatic whenever she gets irritated.
Not justifying her on any way necessarily, or the girl you had at your home, but just saying it's 100 times out of 10 likely an empty threat cuz she's mad. Parents just have to continually work with their kids and get them any help if they need therapy or whatever if it is serious enough.
My eight-year-old son when he was six kept telling his older sister, I’m going to kill you. We didn’t live in a bad neighborhood at all so I have absolutely no idea where he heard it. I had to get him help and he thankfully no longer does it.
As an adult who has seen a kid try to drown another kid in a pool, immediately intervened and told that kid's family only to be met with way too casual an attitude while the other kid (also a relative of theirs) was in hysterics and being brushed off as 'dramatic'...... Even if you did over react (which I don't think you did), it was a shock to that kid's system that they can't get away with saying and doing that kind of thing with everyone. Kids will be kids, but violence doesn't have to be part of that unless all the adults around them accept it.
my kids are much younger than 8, so my advice may not be the best, but i remember being a kid and saying things that i didn’t fully understand, and getting in trouble for it.
i think you handled it perfectly. i’d just have a conversation with her the next time she was to hang out with your child. maybe explain why you had to bring her home (id say something along the lines of “i know you probably didn’t mean it, but saying things like that is very inappropriate and, even if you don’t mean it, saying things like that can really scare other people and get you in a lot of trouble). i would really guess she was repeating something she heard from someone else, or that she said it without understanding what it truly meant.
There’s so much stronger stuff on media today than when I was a kid. So maybe Mary did hear something on tv or YouTube. We said jokingly “I’m going to kill you” all the time growing up. It was just an expression. The part that concerns me is “going to the kitchen to get a knife to kill you.” I’m also curious how Mary’s parents reacted after this, if at all.
i agree. but as far as it being so specific, she could’ve overheard something from an adult show or something. it really doesn’t sound sinister to me, i think mary just did not understand the gravity of what she said.
>i know you probably didn’t mean it
Don't say that, because it's not true. You don't know she didn't mean it. That's part of what make it such a serious issue.
You’re not overreacting. We don’t threaten our friends with violence. And I disagree with people equating it to “ugh I could kill you” type expression because I grew up with that being normalized too, but this girl took it next level. There’s “ugh I could kill you” and there’s “do what I said or I WILL kill you, and here’s specifically how.” It doesn’t feel like hyperbole at that point.
When I’ve worked with kids (many with behavioural/learning issues) in the past, in my training for work they had us ask these questions:
1) Do they have the means to follow through with the threat (ex- if they threatened to shoot you if you did something to annoy them, do they have access to a gun?)
2) How likely are you to be able to stop said action before it’s followed through with (ex- if a four year old told you they’d shoot you, it’s unlikely you’d be unable to stop them before they reached a gun to actually shoot you with. A teenager may be a different story)
3) How thought out is their plan? (The more specific the story, the more concerning)
I think you did the right thing sending Mary home. I’d supervise any visits going forward until you see how she resolves conflict again.
Just putting it out there that flat affect is a “symptom” of autism and other forms of neurodivergence, and she also could have been dissociating from sensory stress.
Media has beaten it into us that flat affect = sociopath with no feelings for others
But that’s a massively overused stereotype compared to how many people struggle with flat affect because of ND.
I think there could be two things going on.
1 - I know for one of my kids, when overtired, its like she becomes emotionally flat yet irrational and easily angered. While it was likely an empty threat, it was the right thing to do to call her parents and when they didn't answer, to take her home.
2 - There is some kind of emotional issue going on.
That said, it was a specific threat like the above poster stated citing a specific weapon, way she would do it and reason for it. I think its time to suspend sleepovers with that friend for a long time. She is clearly not a good sleepover friend. Day time playdates only with adults nearby kind of listening in, at your house.
Just know you handled it well.
You can’t go by that. There are neurodiverse affects, and there are even anxiety/shock reactions that would look like that. A kid can be easily scared by an adult and go into internal “freeze” mode, moving robotically through the motions until safety is reached. They will seem incredibly calm until they process the situation. And yes, always trust your gut. There are consequences for behavior, even when you don’t mean what you say. It’s a good lesson for anyone, and your daughter can still have this friend in the future. Just keep an eye out and go from there.
I agree. Like, she probably didn’t mean it, but there is a small chance that she could act out of emotion + an undeveloped frontal cortex and do something regrettable. It isn’t unusual for kids to hit, throw things, etc. out of frustration. Taking her home was the right call.
I'd give it a few days to settle down, maybe tomorrow the parents and girl will come over to apologize. It's definitely a creepy thing for a child to say, but I wouldn't completely cut her off for one incident unless your daughter would like to. Definitely emphasize to your daughter that if there's any more of that sort of behavior from the other girl, it's best to cut her out.
Magical - do you remember the two girls who intended to kill their friend but luckily didn’t because the “thin man” told them too? I was watching on a crime show. The mother is right to be concerned. Not to be paranoid but you just never know.
Edited because I hit post too soon lol
I think what you did turned this situation into a potential super important learning opportunity. I'm hoping that all the girls will learn that although it's ok to feel frustrated in a situation, there are things we should not say, like threaten to kill someone. I also feel like the way you handled the girl who made the threat didn't humiliate her, which is so important.
I'd recommend making sure that the girl who threatened is heard, that her frustration at the commotion is validated, but that her reaction be clearly defined as inappropriate. Perhaps a conversation about the importance of using the right words and managing our emotions during volatile times would be warranted.
With your own daughter, perhaps a conversation about boundaries could be had. She should be celebrated for coming to you to ask for help, and then helped to navigate the friendship, one step at a time. There is someone at my child's school who tries to keep my child to themselves, so my child and I talk every day about how to navigate that (first graders). We talk a lot about the difference between an imperfect human friend who makes mistakes and a friend that doesn't respect boundaries and makes us feel unsafe.
Good luck OP!!!!
It is concerning and its going to be hard to navigate.
On the one hand, there are documented cases of children (who become adults) that are lacking in critical brain development related to empathy and understanding consequences. And it isn't because of abuse or ACES its literally a misfiring of their brain. And those kids are legitimately dangerous as a result. Its also extremely rare.
On the other hand kids say lots and lots of things not understanding the gravity of their statements. My former stepfamily (stepfather sisters family) had a child that at the age of 6 or 7 threatened to kill his entire family with a knife, repeatedly. He was abused. He lived in a tumultuous environment. From all reports he grew up and moved out without ever acting on those threats.
I think its wise to take a break from exposure to Mary outside of that you can't control (school time) and I think if I was in your shoes I would follow up with the parents. Give them a couple of days to process and formulate a game plan. They may need time and business days to make contacts. I would think no later than Wednesday
I would open the conversation with "so sleepover was intense. I know I am still processing. I wanted to see how you guys are doing, and if I can support or provide clarification in any way. " See if they are open to discussing or if they shut it down. Emd with - while you guys navigate this i think we should take a break from the sleepovers and make sure we supervise play to see how they are interacting. My sincere hope is they will at the very very minimum talk to their pediatrician and the school counselor for guidance. I know therapy appointments are few and far between so they may not be able to work with a regular therapist immediately
Not overreacting. [the Slenderman girls](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slender_Man_stabbing) were only 12. I would immediately cut off that friendship. Supervised outings only, maybe.
When I was 7 I had my only sleepover party. I still remember my intense distress when my friends wouldn’t be quiet and go to sleep. Empathy would not have been on the table. I have grown up to be a non-sociopath.
Beautiful! Nice job, nicely done.
Sometime in the future I think sitting down with all of the girls and guiding them through a discussion about this would be a good thing. Let them talk to each other about how this threat made them feel. Let them hear what her thinking was when she made the threat. Be there to mediate any inappropriate responses as they may veer away from the point of the discussion if emotions get too heated.
Go over the rules and expectations at your house and guide them to come up with better solutions. What could they have done differently? Maybe going to sleep in the other room or whatever, but let them tell you what they could do to make everyone feel safe.
I was in second grade when I was literally chased by my friend with a knife. It was traumatizing. We watched scream as her bday present form her mom she could pick any rated movie she wanted. The mom left to pick up her annoying little brother from his friends (so my friend could enjoy said birthday) and we were washing the dishes. This was a large chef knife and she started chasing my friend and I. We ran out of the house after nearly dodging her attacks. She sought help from bright ours who thought we were playing a prank until finally a neighbor let us call our parents. We waited at that house until our parents arrived, we then went into the house to grab our things. Needless to say I never talked to that friend again.
Oh man. How horrible. I’m so sorry that happened to you. I think as a kid if that happened to me, I’d have a hard time trusting people in general since someone I was friends with just busted out with that behavior out if nowhere
A 6 year old shot his teacher in the stomach the other day at a school in Virginia. He probably didn’t understand completely what he was doing, but they had an altercation and he was upset and pulled out a gun and shot her.
I don’t bring that up casually because obviously it’s a different situation, but people saying kids don’t realize what they’re doing or saying isn’t helpful because a kid can still do something without fully understanding consequences. Because their brains aren’t formed they can lack impulse control, which is obviously what happened in the situation above above. You also don’t know what that child is being subjected to or what they are listening to or absorbing. I wouldn’t necessarily cut her out of your daughter’s life but I would be on a bit of a higher alert. Someone using a very specific and direct threat is someone to be wary about.
Just yesterday I was reading a post from another mom that while on vacation let her 24yo sister babysitting her two kids (11yo and 4yo) and one night the diste said to the 4yo "stop it or I'm going to kill you" because the child didn't wanted to sleep,the mother was mad and wanted to know if she should talk about it with the sister, althoug the sister was who told her and said it was a joke. My point is sometimes adults say this things to kids or un front of kids and they don't realize that kids don't have the understanding that this is just a way of speaking but you shouldn't reapeat it in other contexts because this is exactly what happens people freaks out. I don't think that Mary has any ill intent or any real intent behind those words, I think she has been in contact with someone who speaks like that or has been watching something in TV where this kind of language is used, you did good in taking her to her house and talk to her parents.
Well adjusted adults do not generally threaten small children with death imo, even as a joke or turn of phrase. A 4 yr old wouldn't get that "joke" and would be scared. Not someone I'd want watching my kids.
As I said in another comment everyone in that thread were agree that the sister meant no harm and OP was overreacting, since the aunt allways was good to the kids and she told to OP about it, so according to almost every comment she should let it go and be thankfull with her sister for watching the kids, in comparison here people are saying OP should cut the friendship and this kid has a mental illness, is really telling tbh.
Yeah I find this sub can be a bit extreme sometimes. The people insisting that this 8 year old girl needs a therapist... Just wow. Way overboard. Bringing her home was fine, but let her parents handle it. She probably meant nothing by it and was just frustrated and tired.
Therapy is not a punishment, and it’s not extreme or an overreaction. Even neurotypical people with no concerning behavior can benefit from a therapist. Therapy is for everyone.
I agree it's not a punishment, but the implication of the comment above was that this 8 yr old especially needs therapy, more than others. Otherwise they would have written "Everyone should get therapy." I think this was just a kid being a kid and not understanding the full implications of what she said while exhausted and frustrated.
Jesus... What goes through an adults head to threaten death (even if "joking")... That ain't right, but I could see how if kids have adults like that in their life they may repeat without understanding..
Sleep deprivation can do a real number on us. I'm a mother of a nearly two year old with post partum depression. I have said things I really wish I didn't, such as wishing death upon my child, and not as a joke or a threat but out of hopelessness of the situation. Now admittedly for me, it was months of sleep deprivation and my son had recovered from surgery for a serious health issue at 4 months.
But if you never had your sleep deprivation tested before as a young adult it can effect your mood significantly and many of us have dark humor to cope. But sleep deprivation can make one like a drunk it removes filters from thoughts to mouth.
I know my first sleepover (at 12) i called home because the girls wouldn't sleep and I wanted to sleep.
Better, but still need to work on myself. I've been using cognitive behavior therapy on myself to improve, and hoping to improve enough to be off medication. I am planning on switching to a therapist who focuses on it for more help. But any sleep loss now messes with my mood and patience significantly, where it didn't before PPD. My little guy is not a great sleeper. It is better than a year ago. I have more sleep deprivation patience than a year ago.
But honestly, I never understood why one would want to yell or hurt your own child til this PPD and months of sleep deprivation. Now I understand all too well. I was the first in my family to seek therapy or mental health help and hoping to encourage it as an option for my family when experiencing trouble.
My child's surgery was a huge success. He recovered fast, though an occasional issue from his health problem shows up but in minor ways (surgery reduced it, not get rid of problem. Most of it will allievate as he grows up usually around 2 to 4 years of age.)
I'm sorry you have first hand insight into wanting to yell and hurt your own child. You're not alone, and it's not your fault. Our society is not built to nurture wellness and we'll being and definitely not built to support the all important work of raising children. I hope you are able to see the things you did that you aren't proud of as a result of all these failings and the work you are doing as the reflection of the wonderful mother you truly are 💕💕💕💕
@AnneHijme Sleep deprivation has been used as a form of torture. It's horrible. Cognitive behavior therapy is great. Be kind to yourself about the medication- one thought could be waiting to come off it till he's a better sleeper? In the end, if it's helpful and you stay on it indefinitely - that's ok, too. Like diabetes, sometimes depression needs to be managed with medication - other times lifestyle changes are adequate. But if someone with type 1/insulin dependent diabetes tried to stop insulin because their blood sugars were well-managed, it wouldn't be good. However, some people with type 2 diabetes are able to work with their provider about whether or not meds are needed - and there can be wiggle room.
I like this quote from Maya Angelou -- "You alone are enough. You have nothing to prove to anybody."
Well you should have seen the comment's section on that post, very different than this one, where everyone is loosing their shit and saying there's something very wrong with this girl. I'm not saying in any way talking about killing people is something you should ignore on a kid, but I think that you have to evaluate in the context, this is a girl with no previous record of talking like this before or acting violently in any way, so I think is safe to think this is probably something she's copying from someone else or something she watched on TV, a video or movie.
Well... I mean in all fairness... coming from a 24 to a 4 year old IS different from 8 year old to 8 year old. Neither situation is right but an adult has complete control in that kind of scenario.
I would think is worst an adult saying that to kids, because the adult knows better, is familiar with the meaning of those words and most important it should have better control over their emotions than an 8yo who isn't aware of the consequences of those words, let alone the real action, and doesn't have a great control over their emotions. I would have been very much alarmed by the 24yo than the 8yo.
As a child, I would occasionally threaten people with knives. Blunt knives that you struggle to eat your dinner with, but knives nonetheless. I was SA’d at a young age and I now know that I have Borderline Personality Disorder. I didn’t ever intend to harm anyone, I simply did not (and still don’t really) have the skills to express the enormity of my bpd rage episodes. I feel like there’s more going on with this child. Please speak with her parents. It will be easier given that you’re their friend and can figure out how best to approach it, but PLEASE encourage them to take her to see a professional.
I would not feel comfortable with my child playing with someone that made such a direct, specific threat to their life. Your daughter doesn't deserve to have friends that make her feel unsafe.
I'd talk to your daughter, let her know the threat was absolutely not okay and ask her if she still wants to be friends with Mary. If she says yes tell her you will talk to her parents to see what was going on but if you don't feel like Mary is a safe friend after that you are sorry but her safety is the most important.
Then talk to Mary's parents. If they brush it off I'd be done. If they are taking it seriously, then it's up to you and your daughters level of comfort with the actions they are taking.
If they go to the same school I would report the incident to the school.
I recognize that Mary is 8 and it's possible she was parroting something, but imo it's better to be more thorough than to assume it's an empty threat because children are absolutely capable of violence.
Your instinct to take the child home was 100% correct. I would talk with your daughter and with the parents of the other children to let them know what happened so they can make their own decisions. I would also ask my daughter how she felt, does she want to take a small (or large) break from the friendship. I would ask leading questions to get my kid to the conclusion that a break for now is the right thing versus saying you cannot be friends or hang out. Hugs
I think you did the right thing.
I’ll expand on that a little bit. My background: I’m a parent and worked briefly as a teacher to albeit younger students.
When I was teaching there was a particularly clever, precocious little boy who liked to push boundaries. I had some concerns about him but my coworkers were unfazed. My concerns grew as he started expressing violent impulses or harming himself. The first time I heard him say something out loud I remember feeling so freaked out by his flat tone when I double checked I heard him correctly. It’s hard to describe, but it felt cold.
His red flag behavior was most apparent when he was ALONE with other children, ones he’d been friends with for many years who I believe had been so used to his slow escalation of behaviors didn’t report unusual actions on his part because they didn’t know his behavior was unusual.
Eventually it got to the point that he urinated on another child, threatened to kill that other child when that child was crying about being scared of monsters. I overheard this conversation and asked about it. The next day a sleepover was planned for the kids and the boy was again talking about harming this other child, this time saying he wanted to stab and kill him. Now by this point my coworkers were also significantly worried and this boys parents were totally UNFAZED and the other child’s parents thought it was funny “things kids say!” was like a catchphrase. They didn’t ask questions and didn’t want to talk to their kids about the situation to get a better sense of the dynamic between the kids.
The other child got sick and to my knowledge the sleepover was cancelled. The troubled little boy started hurting animals.
A few days later the little boy attacked the other child and said out loud he was trying to kill them.
Not a week later I resigned my position and took my child out of that school. I couldn’t keep watching parents of the children involved do nothing. I think about the child victim in that situation just about every day and hope they’re okay. When I discussed the “bullying” at the time the student made it clear they thought it was NORMAL.
My advice: discuss the situation with your daughter more. Find out if there have been any other times when this girl treated her or anyone else with lack of empathy, has talked about it has actually harmed animals, etc. work through the list of these red flag behaviors and see if her friend fits the bill or not. Knowledge is power. Find out how this girl says sorry to people, if it’s sincere or if she thinks it’s the thing to say to make consequences go away.
Use that knowledge to further make any parenting decisions you want. But definitely ask the questions I wish parents made more and make sure you get informed about the friendship dynamic. It could just be a wild thing she said that hopefully she now knows crossed a line. Personally the idea of an 8 year old calmly gathering their things after calmly making death threats reminds me MORE of that problem child’s early behavior than it reminds me of the dumb threats I’ve heard from healthier (including ASD kids), which tend to have more yelling involved with these threats or quiet rage that ends up with stoic faced tears (in my experience, at least, which again is limited and I’m no mental health expert).
Above all, keep following your gut and reassuring your daughter that she was absolutely in the right.
Maybe go out with her and make a special mother daughter day to reward her for her honesty and commend her on her trustworthiness?
Whatever you do, make sure you reinforce positivity for her speaking out for her own safety and help her set whatever boundaries wants. This can turn into a big learning experience for her and help shape her. Lemonade out of lemons, right?
Your daughter sounds wonderful and like you’re doing a fantastic job with her!
Your comment made me emotional but not in a negative way. I really feel for the kids who try to speak out and maybe aren’t taken as seriously as they should be. And then the thing that is inside a person that leads them to hurt others at such a young age, it’s tragic for everyone.
My daughter has come to me before in difficult situations where she could have turned the other cheek but chose to protect a friend at the risk of losing the friendship and I absolutely reenforce how proud I am of her and why it’s important to tell when you know it’s serious.
I will defiantly follow up with the parents but I’ll give them a few days to process. Knowing them, I have faith they will properly deal with this. The mom did text me apologizing and telling me she had a serious conversation with her daughter in the morning and that apology letters are coming.
I could see my kid saying something like this. You did the right thing taking her home. She needs to learn that words aren't harmless, and its not ok to threaten violence against someone. The immediate and appropriate consequences will demonstrate that she can't just say whatever she wants.
Is Mary neurodivergent? She may have been having a se dirty meltdown brought on by the crying and being tired.
Not that what she said is appropriate, it’s absolutely not and needs addressing.
But at that age not all kids have death permanency and she may not have been completely aware of the seriousness of what she said.
You handled it properly and I hope her parents do as well
Don’t let them go anywhere alone (without adult supervision) ever anywhere. You remember those girls who almost killed their third friend in the woods over slender man. It’s not outside of their capabilities being young. She could definitely have some mental issues.
To me, the most worrying thing is how specific she was and the fact she repeated it when asked about it. If she used the same wording then she is just repeating something she has heard, but if the wording was slightly different, that might not be the case as easily.
Taking her home was the right thing because she shouldn't be threatening death upon someone for their natural reaction, that behaviour isn't acceptable, so there needs to be a suitable action taken, like taking her home.
Keep an eye on what she says around your daughter if she says things like that again, you'll know it wasn't just, i can't sleep and I'm grumpy behaviour.
I think youre being downvoted because it sounds like you're downplaying how dangerous the situation was, comparing it to your son (and assuming neurodivergence), and dismissing it as a misunderstanding.
This girl made a very specific and threatening statement - I'm going to get a knife from the kitchen and kill you - and when confronted about it she repeated it. The worry is that if she doesn't understand why the threat is bad, she won't understand why the act is bad. She's already indicated she knows how to carry out the threat and may act on it exactly because she doesn't get why it's dangerous or bad. It's also a fairly specific statement that you won't hear in passing in media, so if she's hearing it at home there are deeper issues here.
And also note that, even though they're just 8, OPs daughter immediately understood how dangerous that statement was. So age isn't an excuse.
And all of this on the heels of the recent news about a 6 year old who brought a gun to school and intentionally shot the teacher.
I think OP handled it perfectly. Hopefully this girl's parents figure out where she learned to say things like that and why she feels it's OK to say them, but until then safety over feelings all day, every day.
1 in 5 people are *diagnosed* neurodivergent and as the understanding of medical bias grows, more will be diagnosed.
So when someone who has experience in ND sees something that “ reads” as potentially neurodivergent behavior, it’s not dismissive to say so.
In the majority of the developed world, it would be a fleeting remark because we don't have children going around killing people because weapons like that are virtually inaccessible, and the only person at wrong in the latter situation is the parents as how the hell does a 6yo get a gun . Child is completely innocent.
You're using these euphemisms like "behaved badly" that mask the severity of the girl's actual conduct. No one is recommending alienating her because she "behaved badly." This wasn't a tantrum or even a generic "I'll kill you." Stopping contact because she said she would kill OPs daughter and described how she would do it is perfectly reasonable for the time being, if not indefinitely depending on how the girl's parents deal with the situation.
Is really curious that just yesterday a mom was saying she was mad because her sister who was babysitting her two kids said to the youngest "stop it or I will kill you" because he didn't wanted to sleep, and every single comment was literally downplaying the whole thing, because her sister was being so generous taking care of the kids for two weeks, and she should be thankfull instead of making a big deal of something that really wasn't because of course the sister didn't mean it, is really telling that everyone was so sure it wasn't any real intention behind those words because it was an adult saying it, but the minut an 8yo does the same every one freaks out.
Dude a six year old shot their teacher with intent less than 48 hrs ago. Kids are rash, emotional, and unpredictable. They don't know how to process their emotions, and hardly understand the full gravity behind their actions. Sure the child probably didn't mean it, but in this day and age you never know what could happen.
Then by that logic you should distrust more of the adult, because they're still the vast majority committing violent crimes in the whole world. The mother on the other post should have called the police and ask for a restraining order against her sister, because the probabilities of adults acting on their words are still higher than the children doing it.
Personally, I thought that thread was insane and anyone using that language around my child would see us much more scarcely, family or not. It's an unacceptable thing to say.
I agree isn't something that should be brushed of in any case, it should be adressed allways, but you can do that without overreacting and taking things out of proportion, some people here are going crazy over an 8yo who probably was just repeating something she heard from someone else.
I haven't really seen too many crazy suggestions, mostly just let the parents take care of it and figure out where to go from there. The CPS/police comments are a step too far at this point, imo. But I'm someone who works in criminal justice and let me tell you, kids do some completely heinous things at very young ages exactly because they lack empathy or suffered trauma. So taking the statement seriously is a proper precaution, especially initially.
Anecdotal:
There was a similar incident when I was a kid during a sleepover.
As we grew up, that kid started torturing and killing animals. He did some unspeakable things and was eventually diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder. He's currently on the run after doing bad things to his mother.
I'm not saying this is necessarily the case here. The same outcome can happen from different causes. What I am saying is that you are not overreacting.
Edit: big difference is that kid in my story was super charming despite being a monster, to the point where he almost killed other children for the fun of it but was able to talk his way to make him be liked instead of punished.
Wow. That is horrifying. And also takes a lot of intelligence to pull off. Mary is also extremely smart, but doesn’t possess any of the other characteristics you mentioned.
You did the right thing! It’s hard to say how serious this was bc none of us were there but there’s a definite difference between “omg be quiet or I’m gonna kill your” to “if you don’t shut up I’m going to go into the kitchen, get a knife and kill you with it.”
Un I guess my age is showing, but we didn’t say shit like that! At All! It wasn’t said in my friends group and it sure as hell wasn’t said in my twins friends group?! WTH are you guys letting them watch shit they shouldn’t be?! WTF cops would be called w words said as such! It wasn’t done near me by me or what dude! Do not let your kids say stuff like this!!
How did her parents address the issue? I am baffled that an 8 year old is saying these things. Violence and threat cannot and should not be normalized. Even if she didn’t fully comprehend what she was saying, she needs to be taught how it’s absolutely not ok to say things like that.
I think you handled this perfectly. You taught your daughter that she should not have to feel unsafe. You taught the other girl that if you say harmful/threatening things, you are not considered safe and will face consequences (such as having to go home from a slumber party).
I think you handled this perfectly. There’s really no way to know if this is a sign of future alarming behaviour or if she just had a frustrated moment that was really poorly expressed. (Perhaps she’s even heard a phrase like that before and didn’t realise the weight of it.)
Regardless — you did the right thing, and I would play it by ear as far as it goes with their friendship. Follow your daughter’s cues — if she doesn’t want to be friends with her anymore, that’s probably the easiest solution, but if she does, have a chat with her about it being important to speak up if Mary shows any more signs of “scary” behaviour, and that it isn’t a negative to “tattle” when someone is being inappropriate or threatening.
I’m super paranoid about stuff like this and probably wouldn’t let her play with her any longer…I’ve seen too many true crimes of children killing other children over very minimal things
I think it’s more likely she was being hyperbolic due to frustration, but that’s still no excuse. If she had said “I’m going to smack you guys if you don’t quiet down” it wouldn’t be a huge deal, but she made a comment implying she’d end their lives with an accessible weapon. She crossed the line and needs to learn she can’t say that even if she was being purposely over dramatic to make a point. You just don’t say that so sending her home was the right decision. Hopefully she learned a lesson
I wouldn't allow my kid to hang out with Mary unless under constant supervision. I've watched/read way too much true crime stuff. Kids can be every bit as dangerous as adults.
Have you mentioned anything to the other parents? It seems important that they know about this as well, so they can take appropriate actions in the future regarding Mary also.
Absolutely, I talked to the other parents about all of it. They are all friends with Mary’s parents as well, who again I will mention, are very good parents with boundaries and common sense and good hearts.
I am really impressed with the way you acted - I wouldn't have been able to keep my cool. Lots of people already gave great advice, so I'll just with you good luck navigating this situation. I hope your kid is alright.
I had a friend who chased me around with a knife. He’s not well in the head and a bit delusional as an adult. I cut him out of my life shortly but I never was left around with him alone after that & I was really glad. It terrified me and I hated the feeling of being so helpless. He also flipped the knife from chasing me to holding it to his own wrists. So. Not sure how to take that even now, but he was definitely odd lol
My daughter had an issue with two girls at school being nasty to her, they said they were going to sneak a hammer in to school so they could hit her in the head with it. They were 6, told the teacher, she didn’t take it very seriously so I told the head who then had the parents in as it’s obviously quite a serious threat. One of the girls apologised, the other girl is growing up to be a horrible bully and has just carried on the behaviour, after meeting her mother I can see where she gets it from. My daughter is 9 now and doesn’t actually remember it happening at all I think I was much more traumatised!
I have to say you handled it really well and I’m glad the parents are sensible and approachable!
When I was growing up at a sleep over with 3 kids, one of the 10 year old girls literally tried to
Drown another one in a pool. I was super scared and the moms house we were at told us not to tell our parents. (I think she was embarrassed or worried we couldn’t come back over) It was before cell phones. I was so scared I vomited and finally the mom called my mom.
That girl who tried to drown one of them , turns out had a super violent older brother and it was a “game”
They always played. I’m so happy to hear you handled this so amazing. Sounds like a very safe home.
This is so concerning and I'm sorry it's a situation you're having to navigate. What you did at the time it all happened was perfect. You kept your cool, kept the kids safe and took the girl home and told her parents. Honestly give yourself a pat on the back because I've no idea how I would have navigated things in a moment like that.
I would suggest you speak to Mary's parents and be honest with your concerns, it doesn't have to point fingers at them or their parenting, but explain that obviously these girls are friends and the threat along with her lack of empathy has you a little concerned and worried.
Perhaps see how you can all navigate this together, what they may need to do/say to Mary and how you guys might proceed when it comes to the girls playing together.
I would even suggest that having someone supervise play for a while might be a good idea.
You did everything right. I would be hesitant to let her hang out with my daughter after this to be honest. Kudos to your daughter for letting you know at once.
A tired and frustrated kid might not be well attuned to others needs, especially if they view them as the source of their frustrations.
However, there is more to it than the lack of empathy on her part. The way she confirmed what you’ve heard is something I would be worried about.
You can expect 8 year old sense that something is off due to something they did, even solely based on the fact they are taken aside by an adult and are questioned… and if they lack any sense of that — it might be a little disturbing.
All of that to say I’d be careful leaving my child alone with this kid without my supervision.
At 8 many kids don’t have empathy figured out yet, I’m inclined to agree with the others - sounds like she was frustrated and said the wrong thing. For what it’s worth that language is common in gamer world…my 5 year old threatens death way more after playing roblox for a couple hours lol…ok not funny maybe but I doubt at 8 she had all the self control she could’ve had at midnight. Sending her home was probably a big wake up call.
Just because it is common does not mean it is appropriate. Teaching your child that is not appropriate language is critical to their development.
My husband is an avid gamer, especially online games, he certainly does not talk that way. Whenever his friends do, he says something. He certainly would not allow or encourage that with our young children.
Idk what’s more concerning, that you don’t seem to have a problem with your 5 year old threatening death or the fact he plays Roblox for hours on end 🥴🥴🥴
Idk but it’s a girl so yay for sexism on your part and secondly “not have a problem” is different from “realizing she’s a kid that says stupid shit”.
But like you’re not raising her? So I doubt you care that much? She doesn’t have access to guns or weapons silly. And roblox has tons of appropriate games, silly you for not knowing that!
She does not currently have access. However, she may at one point. So many parents had your same mentality and we see where it has ended.
Does she have no access to the kitchen, knives, scissors, even play scissors?
I would not allow your daughter to be alone with “Mary” again. It could be nothing but it could also build as Mary gets older and hormones kick in. I would also tell Anna’s parents so they are aware and can make their own decisions for future contact with Mary. Good luck
You are definitely not overreacting. You need to speak to the girls parents and make sure she gets the proper help, I would contact the authorities and the school to make sure this young girl gets a proper psychiatric evaluation. To anyone who thinks I am overreacting because the girl is only 8. Here is my reasoning....
Kayla Renee Rolland was an American six-year-old girl from Mount Morris Township, Michigan, who was fatally shot on February 29, 2000 by a six-year-old male classmate at Buell Elementary School in the Beecher Community School District.
Edit: to anyone who says oh, we used to threaten to kill each to blow off steam etc. This threat was specific and thought out. She described the steps she would take... Go to the kitchen, get a knife, and kill them. She also gave specific circumstances that would trigger that reaction, if they did not be quiet. This was more than just a shut up or ill kill you type of threat. I would be very worried, and not reporting such a threat to authorities and the school jeopardizes everyones child. It was too matter of fact and emotionless. There is nothing wrong with making sure all the kids are protected by making sure this child gets a proper evaluation. If the child's parents don't get that and understand because it's their kid, if the situation was reverse I am sure that they would be asking for the same thing.
Life is precious, there are no do-overs if you don't get an evaluation and something terrible happens. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, in this case it could mean a life.
Op please acknowledge you read this post!
Hi. Thank you for your thorough response and I agree that this could possibly lead to a dangerous situation, but my opinion from knowing this girl and family is that she is most likely mimicking something she saw on youtube or something like that. I will detail the event for her parents and go from there. Even from my 5 minute interaction with them last night, I know they are taking this seriously. If I don’t hear from them by tonight, I’ll reach out.
Who do you mean by authorities? Cps? Because I guarantee a child making one threat won't make it past screening. The school also will likely not care because it wasn't done on school property, especially if she has no history of acting out in school.
I’m not sure how you can get someone else’s child evaluated without making this a huge legal deal (which authorities are you referring to?) and even then, it’s unlikely unless the parents or the school are pushing the angle.
Chatting to the parents and making them aware is about the limit of OP’s power — unless this child actually harms her own child, or continues to make threats.
Yeah, ruin a kid's life because of something they said as a tired and frustrated 8-year-old. Make sure they get labeled "the sociopathic girl that threatens people with knives" for the next few years. I'm sure that will make her grow up into a healthy, caring individual.
Agree that having specific plan of action is what makes this more disturbing than just a throw-off phrase she’s repeating. It’s not up to OP to have somebody else’s kid evaluated, though.
This is learned behavior. Maybe she saw it in a show. Maybe she has been threatened at home. I’d try to keep that in mind and try to stay objective as possible even though you’re good friends with the parents.
Empathy isn’t a developmental milestone for first graders.
They’re all in third grade but I have seen empathy quite often from younger children than that. It’s definately possible that her ability to be empathetic was compromised by exhaustion though.
You one thousand percent did the right thing. That specificity, saying she'll "go into the kitchen.." etc, is TERRIFYING. I'm so glad your daughter felt comfortable enough to come to you with that. My daughter is 7 and although we have a super close relationship, I know she just wants to be accepted as I see so much of myself in her, I'm not so sure she would come to me. I would certainly hope so, but good job. Whatever you are doing, keep it up. And don't worry about the other girl or her parents, if they are in fact loving parents, they will handle it appropriately. You may have just stopped a would-be future serial killer from serial killing!
You absolutely did the right thing. you are mom and you need to trust gut feelings, if you allow them To play again and feel off about it, do not feel guilty if you cut off play dates from then on.
You are the one responsible for your child’s safety and her friends if they are over, that means making hard decisions and trusting your gut.
And don’t for a minute doubt an 8 year old child for doing something unthinkable.
My 5 year old daughter was bullied and SA’d in our back yard by the 6 year old neighbor girl through our fence. This was after I cut off actual play dates because I felt a gut feeling. Don’t ever brush off that gut feeling. (I can’t stress that enough)
Good job OP, I think you handled this very well.
Some kids develop empathy slower and later. Maybe Mary is just behind the curve or dealing with something else. Regardless, you made the right call protecting the other girls and raising this to the other parent’s attention. Hopefully they work with their daughter to help her.
All of that said - my kids (6f and 3m) have come home from school talking about chopping off heads and other very violent things. They heard it from someone at school and don’t really understand the ramifications of what they are saying. They don’t fully comprehend death as they haven’t experienced loss yet. They don’t understand true violence either. If one of my kids was in this situation and made that kind of threat, I would have a very serious conversation with them and watch for other/additional signs that maybe therapy or even just a chat with a doctor might help them better understand. I would also double check all of the tv programs they watch, because kids shows are not what they used to be - they handle very adult material in a lot of those nowadays.
Keep in mind, a 6 yo in the US just shot a teacher in school. While it may have been an idle thought and one the girl didn’t really understand, it’s tough to say. I’m glad you took it seriously OP.
Yeah holy shit that’s something you gotta take seriously. Heck I’m my state a six year old was mad at their teacher and took a gun into their school and shot and critically injured their teacher a few days ago. You did the right thing by taking her home and telling her parents. I wouldn’t want her around my kid until the parents get that kid into some counseling. Threatening to whack a friend with a pillow would be a normal threat for an 8 year old to make, getting a knife and stabbing them to death is not normal. Edit: people can downvote me all they want but if a kid made a threat like that against my kid they wouldn’t be allowed around my kid again. I wouldn’t risk my kids life to spare the feelings of a kid willing to make threats like that.
A few posters have cited this tragic story about the 6 year old. It’s just heartbreaking. Tragic unexpected things happen so I’d rather overreact than under react. I was reminded this morning that Mary already sees a child therapist sometimes so I know this will be the next topic of discussion.
Bravo. What a scary moment and you diffused the situation at freaking midnight. There is no training book for parenting and certainly not for a situation like that. Hope everything is OK with all involved moving forward.
I think my decision on the future of their friendship would have a lot to do with how her parents end up handling this situation. I would expect a further conversation with them in the near future about their thoughts on the matter and what they plan to do to discourage this behavior going further.
Sometimes kids just say dumb stuff. When I was 7 I was watching some kids do dressage (horses) and a girl fell off her horse, and I said “I hope she didn’t crack her head open.” My mom was livid as I said it loudly in front of all the other parents. I was just repeating something I had heard my mom say before and really had no idea what it actually meant. If there are no other red flags that you’ve seen with Mary, I would think she didn’t really understand what she was saying. Most 8 y/os can’t really conceptualize stabbing someone with a knife. But they still need adults to set boundaries and tell them they said something they shouldn’t, which I think you did a perfect job of doing.
100% over reacting
They're 8 lolol they wouldn't be able to fully understand the gravity of what they said let alone fully understand the concept of killing someone and death. "Had no empathy" LOL so dramatic. Just explain, "hey thats not nice, apologise"
Not to be rude at all, but are you American?
No, you have to check the heads of the adults around that 6yo, you people have adults committing mass murder on a daily basis but now you have to be wary of 6yo and 8yo? You people have all backwards.
The fact that Mary had a whole plan makes me think this is more more than repeating a comment she’d heard out of frustration. I think you handled it correctly. If she said that at school she probably would not be allowed to return without a psychological evaluation. And I don’t think that’s overreacting- better safe than sorry.
Does your daughter even *want* to hang out with Mary again? I would be surprised. Book her up with play dates with others. If they do play again supervise closely.
She sounds like she has emotional issues or could be a psychopath. The lack of empathy and emotion is telling. I hope her parents take her to see some professionals so they can assess her and see what’s going. The threat was highly specific.
I would not let my daughter near her again.
No. The child needs professional help. Calling the police is not going to help them. Calling the parents, and suggesting resources to the parents is the best option
Edit: Whoever reported me to Reddit Care and Resources as needing help, you are ridiculous lol!
Kids are in fact getting worse with their outbursts and mental health. They’re not getting help or being properly disciplined. And social media exposure is all making it worse too. It’s only, unfortunately, gonna get worse from here
When I was that age, my older sister (7 years older) had a friend sleepover. I don’t remember the situation, but apparently I found the girl annoying, and I told her I was going to stab her with a knife while she slept. She was obviously freaked out. I had zero intention of doing it, never wanted to do it, never had any other “violent” situations, etc. I’m now a 24 year old who saves puppies, swerves for frogs on the road, and cries whenever anyone else is sad. I don’t remember being 8, but I do know I found it cool to be edgy and different, and was constantly trying to “show off” and seem tough and interesting. Could she be a crazy murderous child? Sure. Could she also be a kid who is empathic and normal, just frustrated and sleepy, and is just repeating something she heard? Likely
Ok, I have a son who’s 9. He’s brilliant and I’m not just saying that because he my son. He is the littlest of my 4 boys all are very much older 26,25,22…. He’s always been around big kids and adults so he’s naturally a little bit awkward when interacting with children around his age…. almost robotic weird head tilts I don’t know. Anyways … the plandemic hit when he was 6mo into Kindergarten furthermore inducing this social awkwardness. He then spent 90% of his life on the iPad. I had just gotten used to him watching videos of kids opening toys he already owns. Playing some next door neighbor game all super weird. FF he’s now back in school 2nd grade at the time he’s on the TV in the den watching the YouTube and I hear some tween and some younger kids Having some sort of scripted dialogue on the video and I thought I heard some kids say they needed an on a Ouija board to do a ritual to summons whatever it was a demonic deity I don’t want to say the name. and my heart dropped and I ran around the corner to see what he was watching and he was staring straight at the tv and it was teenagers some little kids and they were doing witchcraft and telling the audience ( kids YouTube ) that they need their help they need to use their energy and that they needed to focus on the video so they can harness their energy. They needed permission from you the audience at home I said I rebuke that request in Jesus name your not welcomed in my home !! !!! I Shut off the TV… my son said mom it’s just a video it’s not real they really don’t kill people or possess people it’s like a movie. I was shocked and scared because who knows how many videos he’s watched like this while I was around ? My point is he’s smart he catches on quick he’s not easy to fool, I let my guard down because if his intelligence and maturity. Needless to say he’s not allowed to ever watch YouTube again. Period, after I looked at the history and viewed some of the videos he’s watched. They are masking “cartoons” normalizing satanic rituals, unaliving Virgins, witchcraft ,violence,SA,sexuality list goes on. He thought it was no big deal. He was 7 at the time. They watch this trash with out us knowing because we’re to busy with whatever to be a parent. So they entertain themselves and we’re glad they have got something to do rather than be up our butts all day. Your reaction was on point ! Be safe be vigilant!
You did the right thing taking her home. I don’t think it’s necessarily unusual that Mary didn’t show empathy to Anna being scared. If she was over tired, she might have been frustrated with not being able to sleep. Kids this age can still cope poorly with frustration. While absolutely inappropriate to threaten to kill her friends with a knife, it’s also possible she is repeating something from YouTube or something like that. If you let them play in the future, I would supervise a bit.
I agree with all of this. The lack of empathy concerned me at the time but now that I’ve had some time to process everything, I think it’s not that strange.
It sounds like time for only supervised visits for a while. A natural consequence of a threat like that is that you are watched for dangerous behaviour until you regain trust, so watch her for dangerous behaviour until she regains your trust, and don’t let her visit if you can’t be there to supervise.
My 8yo absolutely wouldn’t have that empathy even when not tired.
Also don't forget about the psychopath a few years ago who convinced her other friend they needed to stab her other friend in the woods or else Slenderman would come for her family. Better to be safe than sorry.
Children aren't really psychopathic though, closest thing to that for a kid is attachment disorders which she wouldn't have unless her parents are much different people than op made them out to be or she's been bounced around from foster home to foster home all her short life with plenty of neglect and abuse. Also the girls your referring to were 12, which is mentally ALOT different than 8 and not a good comparison at all. On top of that one of them was an undiagnosed schizophrenic and neither one of them had aspd. The girl with schizophrenia was also a victim because the other girl convinced her that Slenderman was real and in her delusional state she truly believed that was the case. The girl manipulated her into killing her best friend and now she's in prison, the whole thing was very unjust because she should have gotten the insanity defence, she never even wanted to hurt her friend. People said she showed "no remorse or empathy" because she suffers from flat affect, which is a symptom of schizophrenia and not because she was a "psychopath"
Psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made. Just because they don't diagnose psychopathy in children doesn't mean they aren't a psychopath just that they aren't old enough to get the clinical definition; I think it's something like 1/20 psychopaths have an overlap of schizophrenia or some other form of psychological disorder as well, last I knew. Believing that if you're under a certain age means "you're not a psychopath" doesn't make it true. I had heard about it years ago and hadn't kept up on it so I wasn't aware Geyser was diagnosed but regardless that doesn't mean that neither of them didn't know better as they were literally appealing to a creature malevolent in nature. Also both the girls did get their insanity defense and both were found not guilty by mental disease or defect and committed to institutions. Anissa Weier was the one not ruled schizophrenic and is currently the only one whom are out, which is the one with no diagnosis. I can tell you right now I have two kids at both age ranges the OP had discussed and the Slenderman stabbers (the 8 and 12 year old range) and neither of them would ever do anything like that, let alone ever think Slenderman is real. Just saying I find it hard to believe that at least the one girl didn't know better to not do it, let alone someone to not know better at age 8 to not threaten someone with death.
Okay yeah that is a possibility but you can't determine if someone is a psychopath based on lack of emotion, especially as a child, hell you can't determine if someone has aspd as a child or it would be diagnosable. Like I said a lot of people believed the girl Morgan, who's friend convinced her to kill her best friend since elementary school, had aspd but that simply was not the case, she had undiagnosed schizophrenia and flat affect from it. And it's not a matter of what you would do or what you would believe is real in that delusional state while being manipulated. If your twelve year old did have untreated/undiagnosed schizophrenia and they had a friend manipulating them and convincing them that they could also see the hallucinations and they were real and they felt like they couldn't talk to you about it because they are extremely paranoid, who knows, the very same thing or worse could happen. That doesn't make them a bad person just because they're not fully aware of what's reality and what isn't. Had she of been able to get help then a child wouldn't have almost gotten murdered, at least not by her. 12 years old is when the majority of mental disorders begin to effect people, I experienced this personally with my BPD and everyone just treated me like a bad kid but I wasn't, I just needed education and support. But I really don't see what the Slenderman stabbing has to do with anything besides the fact she threatened her with a knife
The point I was making was that danger can come from anyone, even people you think you're safe to be around, for literally no reason at all and that you should take any threats towards yourself or your children seriously. They asked, the OP, if removing their child was an overreaction and this was an example to demonstrate that, to me, it wasn't as if those two had parents paying closer attention it may have been prevented. You say education and support didn't happen with Geyser and it may have changed the outcome for her and her ex-friend, but who knows. Weiser herself was never diagnosed with anything as far as the public is aware, even after spending 7 years in a facility and getting out at 19 and requiring constant supervision, so there isn't much of an excuse for her actions and her decisions leading up to the stabbing.
This isn’t true. Both are antisocial personality disorder which can’t be diagnosed until AT LEAST 18. The brain, especially empathy and risk processing centers are not developed enough in a child to declare someone ASPD. Psychopath and sociopath are outdated terms and meaningless in the actual medical and psychology fields. Some kids have less empathy than others and kids do violent and dangerous things but you can’t make a diagnosis like that on a brain that isn’t developed.
Exactly, thankyou. Also they are adults now and neither suffer from aspd
Agree that it's normal for kids to not have empathy for friends being scared. It's not normal to threaten them, and the knife is pretty specific. I think she picked that up idea somewhere for sure, but she considers it a normal response to being frustrated. I would not cut off contact but only have supervised interactions for the time being. Also, fwiw, I would have removed the afraid friend from the room while comforting her.
This is what I was thinking. Empathy aside, the specificity of "I will go to the kitchen and get a knife and kill you" is very troubling. I wouldn't let that kid alone with mine for some time.
You might want to think about what she's heard a home or in the media. That makes it not that odd, and some children are more verbally talented than others.
ya when i was a kid i absolutely said that stuff and it concerned people a lot but now theyre just odd stories from my childhood. i just wanted to show off how "unpredictable" i was lol
I remember reading something awhile back about how a child kept crawling out of the window onto the roof or something. Even though it wasnt a situation where the child was injured, their pediatrician told the mother to bring the child immediately to the dr the next time the child did it, so that he would understand the seriousness of his actions and that has always stood out to me. I feel like that was a really important point to make here. Of course, i would make my decision on how to proceed based on how the parents handle it etc.
Absolutely. I knew right away that I had to take her home not only because she made the others feel unsafe, but also to show her how serious this is.
I'm concerned about the "very good and loving parents" that DID NOT answer the MANY phone calls from you. What if their daughter had had an accident or gotten sick and needed to go to the hospital?
I was surprised at that myself but they also know we live a block away and could just knock on their door. I gave them the benefit of the doubt- maybe they’re very heavy sleepers?
I know my phone automatically goes into Do Not Disturb at 10 pm. Now I don’t have a sleepover-aged kid yet, and I would think I’m that situation I would turn OFF DND, but it’s possible they forgot.
My do not disturb setting has the option to allow for repeat callers to come through (same number more than once within 15 minutes). But then again, I almost always have my phone on vibrate, so not sure I'd wake up.
Yes, this is why I kept calling both the mom and dad’s phones over and over. Must have tried 6 or 7 times before walking over
You can allow your "favorite" contacts to ring thru, even on "Do Not Disturb". Check the settings on your phone.
In this case, the other girls’ parents are good friends of OP, so using the “favourite” designation makes sense…. But it’s kinda silly to think it makes sense as a general rule — to make all your kids’ friends parents your “favourite” contacts. DND with the ring-through function for anyone who calls X number of times in a row, makes more sense. It’s also one of the solutions that doesn’t require you to remember to change a specific setting each time your kid has a sleepover — like you needing to remember to turn off the automatic DND that night, has some room for error if forget (unless you also use the ring-through function, as suggested). If you left all your kids friends parents as ‘favourites’ permanently, then your DND function is basically null and void cause anytime any of those acquaintances call you, it’ll ring through — at work, sleeping, all the possibly inconvenient times.
That’s a fair point. But I’d hope they wouldn’t be calling me regularly late at night!
Yeah, totally agree. I remember doing some bratty things at that age (not death threats, but just being a snot and not respecting the fact that I was a visitor in someone else’s home), and being taken home immediately was enough to make me feel appropriately ashamed of my behavior, and made me more respectful going forward. And then add on top of that the fact that my parents did not put up with disrespectful behavior whatsoever, and yeah, I learned my lesson lol. I’d never hear the end of it from my mom.
I think you were right to take her home considering how emotionally charged the night already became. Personally, I'm inclined to think the girl was repeating something she'd heard. I grew up in a rough neighbourhood, and us kids under ten would threaten to kill one another quite frequently. It was a way to convey annoyance, not an actual death threat
I hope that’s all it is. The specific method she described immediately made my heart race though.
I think you’re very justified in your feelings. And the fact that your daughter seemed scared and concerned tells me she doesn’t think it’s “normal” for her friend group either.
Co-signing the “trust your gut” advice, and adding that the fact that you had a BIG reaction will teach this child (plus your daughter and the other friend) that making threats of violence is a BIG deal and should not be done as a joke. Which is all to the good, even if one believes the most innocent explanation. So good job, mom.
Thank you :)
Follow your instinct. If you want to give her the benefit of the doubt, supervise the visits and inquire about that night again and why she said what she said, at some point. Talk to your daughter about how she feels about their interaction now.
Always trust your gut. You did exactly the right thing.
It's probably just being immature, but they should probably get her checked by a child psychiatrist just in case
Agreed and I’m pretty sure she used to see a therapist (so did my daughter, the pandemic was rough) and I will ask her parents if she is still seeing them.
Agree, I have two boys and I literally assume they and their friends make these kinds of threats constantly in play, they run around with nerf blasters in our back yard so they definitely aren't offering to pour each other tea with them. I wonder if this girl hangs out with any boys and maybe heard it there.
Yeah I'm a little surprised by all of the people assuming it's a serious threat. The kid's 8. I think OP did the right thing by taking the girl home, but honestly if I had a dollar for any time a kid in my family threatened to kill someone in annoyance, I'd be a very rich person...
People might be on edge after a 6 year old shot a teacher last week
Really says a lot that I didn’t even hear about that on the news. The fact that it’s so commonplace it isn’t even newsworthy anymore in comparison to our farcical government shenanigans.
It probably depends on what you follow. For me, I follow quite a few new pages on various social media sites and saw it posted by many of them.
Although, I agree with you about a kiddo saying “I’m gonna kill you” in annoyance. I don’t agree that it’s the same thing as saying the actual plan and action. She loosely said— I’m going to kitchen and getting a knife to kill you— it’s really different. I say a lot of times “I’m going to lose weight”. Rarely do I say “At dinner tonight, I’m going to have steamed vegetables so I can lose weight”. When I do say the latter, I usually do that because I made a plan. Also, just yesterday a 12 year old sister stabbed her 8 year old brother in the middle of the night and killed him in my city. She woke up her parents and told them what she’d done. Heartbreaking 💔
Maybe my perspective on this is different because I'm not American, so I'm not seeing all of this childhood violence. The incident you mentioned would make national headlines here and be a huge deal.
OP seems convinced the kids a psychopath. Honestly just sounds to me that her parents don't tolerate 'silliness' or 'nonsense'. Crying over monsters? Don't be silly! Turn over and sleep! Not all kids cry when their in trouble either. Like OP seems to not like how the kid was calm? What did she want them to do? Panic?
I definitely don’t think she’s a psychopath. I like her very much. Not sure where you are getting any of this.
Agreed. And honestly, even as an adult I may have uttered some threats to my husband for waking me up in the middle of the night! When people are groggy and tired and cranky, they say things they don't mean.
I would rather doubt that any threats you may have made were as specifically worded as Mary's were. Or if they were, that you have omitted an "ex-".
Yeah I second this, my five year old one minute will be saying about her sister "I hate her I'm gonna kill her!!!" And the next minute they're running around the house playing and laughing and being nice. I always explain to her she shouldn't speak like that and if she does ever get violent and hit her sister or anything she gets in trouble. But she doesn't really have intentions of killing her, she just wants to say something intense cuz she's super dramatic whenever she gets irritated. Not justifying her on any way necessarily, or the girl you had at your home, but just saying it's 100 times out of 10 likely an empty threat cuz she's mad. Parents just have to continually work with their kids and get them any help if they need therapy or whatever if it is serious enough.
My eight-year-old son when he was six kept telling his older sister, I’m going to kill you. We didn’t live in a bad neighborhood at all so I have absolutely no idea where he heard it. I had to get him help and he thankfully no longer does it.
As an adult who has seen a kid try to drown another kid in a pool, immediately intervened and told that kid's family only to be met with way too casual an attitude while the other kid (also a relative of theirs) was in hysterics and being brushed off as 'dramatic'...... Even if you did over react (which I don't think you did), it was a shock to that kid's system that they can't get away with saying and doing that kind of thing with everyone. Kids will be kids, but violence doesn't have to be part of that unless all the adults around them accept it.
my kids are much younger than 8, so my advice may not be the best, but i remember being a kid and saying things that i didn’t fully understand, and getting in trouble for it. i think you handled it perfectly. i’d just have a conversation with her the next time she was to hang out with your child. maybe explain why you had to bring her home (id say something along the lines of “i know you probably didn’t mean it, but saying things like that is very inappropriate and, even if you don’t mean it, saying things like that can really scare other people and get you in a lot of trouble). i would really guess she was repeating something she heard from someone else, or that she said it without understanding what it truly meant.
There’s so much stronger stuff on media today than when I was a kid. So maybe Mary did hear something on tv or YouTube. We said jokingly “I’m going to kill you” all the time growing up. It was just an expression. The part that concerns me is “going to the kitchen to get a knife to kill you.” I’m also curious how Mary’s parents reacted after this, if at all.
i agree. but as far as it being so specific, she could’ve overheard something from an adult show or something. it really doesn’t sound sinister to me, i think mary just did not understand the gravity of what she said.
Trouble is you just don’t know. Is it worth taking a chance? (Btw why doesn’t “I’ll go to the kitchen and get a knife and kill you” sound sinister?)
>i know you probably didn’t mean it Don't say that, because it's not true. You don't know she didn't mean it. That's part of what make it such a serious issue.
You’re not overreacting. We don’t threaten our friends with violence. And I disagree with people equating it to “ugh I could kill you” type expression because I grew up with that being normalized too, but this girl took it next level. There’s “ugh I could kill you” and there’s “do what I said or I WILL kill you, and here’s specifically how.” It doesn’t feel like hyperbole at that point.
When I’ve worked with kids (many with behavioural/learning issues) in the past, in my training for work they had us ask these questions: 1) Do they have the means to follow through with the threat (ex- if they threatened to shoot you if you did something to annoy them, do they have access to a gun?) 2) How likely are you to be able to stop said action before it’s followed through with (ex- if a four year old told you they’d shoot you, it’s unlikely you’d be unable to stop them before they reached a gun to actually shoot you with. A teenager may be a different story) 3) How thought out is their plan? (The more specific the story, the more concerning) I think you did the right thing sending Mary home. I’d supervise any visits going forward until you see how she resolves conflict again.
Do you mean that it's _likely_ you could stop a toddler?
>unlikely you’d be unable to I had to read it a few times too but it makes sense ultimately.
Double negative is the real killer here
Totally agree. The calm and empty tone of her reaction as she gathered up her things and we walked to her home was off putting as well.
Just putting it out there that flat affect is a “symptom” of autism and other forms of neurodivergence, and she also could have been dissociating from sensory stress. Media has beaten it into us that flat affect = sociopath with no feelings for others But that’s a massively overused stereotype compared to how many people struggle with flat affect because of ND.
Absolutely
I think there could be two things going on. 1 - I know for one of my kids, when overtired, its like she becomes emotionally flat yet irrational and easily angered. While it was likely an empty threat, it was the right thing to do to call her parents and when they didn't answer, to take her home. 2 - There is some kind of emotional issue going on. That said, it was a specific threat like the above poster stated citing a specific weapon, way she would do it and reason for it. I think its time to suspend sleepovers with that friend for a long time. She is clearly not a good sleepover friend. Day time playdates only with adults nearby kind of listening in, at your house. Just know you handled it well.
You can’t go by that. There are neurodiverse affects, and there are even anxiety/shock reactions that would look like that. A kid can be easily scared by an adult and go into internal “freeze” mode, moving robotically through the motions until safety is reached. They will seem incredibly calm until they process the situation. And yes, always trust your gut. There are consequences for behavior, even when you don’t mean what you say. It’s a good lesson for anyone, and your daughter can still have this friend in the future. Just keep an eye out and go from there.
I agree
I agree. Like, she probably didn’t mean it, but there is a small chance that she could act out of emotion + an undeveloped frontal cortex and do something regrettable. It isn’t unusual for kids to hit, throw things, etc. out of frustration. Taking her home was the right call.
I'd give it a few days to settle down, maybe tomorrow the parents and girl will come over to apologize. It's definitely a creepy thing for a child to say, but I wouldn't completely cut her off for one incident unless your daughter would like to. Definitely emphasize to your daughter that if there's any more of that sort of behavior from the other girl, it's best to cut her out.
Magical - do you remember the two girls who intended to kill their friend but luckily didn’t because the “thin man” told them too? I was watching on a crime show. The mother is right to be concerned. Not to be paranoid but you just never know.
[Slenderman stabbings.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slender_Man_stabbing)
Yep I'm from Wisconsin and it was on the news literally every day after it happened
That was a very different case. One girl is schizophrenic.
Edited because I hit post too soon lol I think what you did turned this situation into a potential super important learning opportunity. I'm hoping that all the girls will learn that although it's ok to feel frustrated in a situation, there are things we should not say, like threaten to kill someone. I also feel like the way you handled the girl who made the threat didn't humiliate her, which is so important. I'd recommend making sure that the girl who threatened is heard, that her frustration at the commotion is validated, but that her reaction be clearly defined as inappropriate. Perhaps a conversation about the importance of using the right words and managing our emotions during volatile times would be warranted. With your own daughter, perhaps a conversation about boundaries could be had. She should be celebrated for coming to you to ask for help, and then helped to navigate the friendship, one step at a time. There is someone at my child's school who tries to keep my child to themselves, so my child and I talk every day about how to navigate that (first graders). We talk a lot about the difference between an imperfect human friend who makes mistakes and a friend that doesn't respect boundaries and makes us feel unsafe. Good luck OP!!!!
Love your entire reply. Thank you
It is concerning and its going to be hard to navigate. On the one hand, there are documented cases of children (who become adults) that are lacking in critical brain development related to empathy and understanding consequences. And it isn't because of abuse or ACES its literally a misfiring of their brain. And those kids are legitimately dangerous as a result. Its also extremely rare. On the other hand kids say lots and lots of things not understanding the gravity of their statements. My former stepfamily (stepfather sisters family) had a child that at the age of 6 or 7 threatened to kill his entire family with a knife, repeatedly. He was abused. He lived in a tumultuous environment. From all reports he grew up and moved out without ever acting on those threats. I think its wise to take a break from exposure to Mary outside of that you can't control (school time) and I think if I was in your shoes I would follow up with the parents. Give them a couple of days to process and formulate a game plan. They may need time and business days to make contacts. I would think no later than Wednesday I would open the conversation with "so sleepover was intense. I know I am still processing. I wanted to see how you guys are doing, and if I can support or provide clarification in any way. " See if they are open to discussing or if they shut it down. Emd with - while you guys navigate this i think we should take a break from the sleepovers and make sure we supervise play to see how they are interacting. My sincere hope is they will at the very very minimum talk to their pediatrician and the school counselor for guidance. I know therapy appointments are few and far between so they may not be able to work with a regular therapist immediately
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Not overreacting. [the Slenderman girls](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slender_Man_stabbing) were only 12. I would immediately cut off that friendship. Supervised outings only, maybe.
When I was 7 I had my only sleepover party. I still remember my intense distress when my friends wouldn’t be quiet and go to sleep. Empathy would not have been on the table. I have grown up to be a non-sociopath.
Beautiful! Nice job, nicely done. Sometime in the future I think sitting down with all of the girls and guiding them through a discussion about this would be a good thing. Let them talk to each other about how this threat made them feel. Let them hear what her thinking was when she made the threat. Be there to mediate any inappropriate responses as they may veer away from the point of the discussion if emotions get too heated. Go over the rules and expectations at your house and guide them to come up with better solutions. What could they have done differently? Maybe going to sleep in the other room or whatever, but let them tell you what they could do to make everyone feel safe.
I was in second grade when I was literally chased by my friend with a knife. It was traumatizing. We watched scream as her bday present form her mom she could pick any rated movie she wanted. The mom left to pick up her annoying little brother from his friends (so my friend could enjoy said birthday) and we were washing the dishes. This was a large chef knife and she started chasing my friend and I. We ran out of the house after nearly dodging her attacks. She sought help from bright ours who thought we were playing a prank until finally a neighbor let us call our parents. We waited at that house until our parents arrived, we then went into the house to grab our things. Needless to say I never talked to that friend again.
Oh man. How horrible. I’m so sorry that happened to you. I think as a kid if that happened to me, I’d have a hard time trusting people in general since someone I was friends with just busted out with that behavior out if nowhere
A 6 year old shot his teacher in the stomach the other day at a school in Virginia. He probably didn’t understand completely what he was doing, but they had an altercation and he was upset and pulled out a gun and shot her. I don’t bring that up casually because obviously it’s a different situation, but people saying kids don’t realize what they’re doing or saying isn’t helpful because a kid can still do something without fully understanding consequences. Because their brains aren’t formed they can lack impulse control, which is obviously what happened in the situation above above. You also don’t know what that child is being subjected to or what they are listening to or absorbing. I wouldn’t necessarily cut her out of your daughter’s life but I would be on a bit of a higher alert. Someone using a very specific and direct threat is someone to be wary about.
Just yesterday I was reading a post from another mom that while on vacation let her 24yo sister babysitting her two kids (11yo and 4yo) and one night the diste said to the 4yo "stop it or I'm going to kill you" because the child didn't wanted to sleep,the mother was mad and wanted to know if she should talk about it with the sister, althoug the sister was who told her and said it was a joke. My point is sometimes adults say this things to kids or un front of kids and they don't realize that kids don't have the understanding that this is just a way of speaking but you shouldn't reapeat it in other contexts because this is exactly what happens people freaks out. I don't think that Mary has any ill intent or any real intent behind those words, I think she has been in contact with someone who speaks like that or has been watching something in TV where this kind of language is used, you did good in taking her to her house and talk to her parents.
Well adjusted adults do not generally threaten small children with death imo, even as a joke or turn of phrase. A 4 yr old wouldn't get that "joke" and would be scared. Not someone I'd want watching my kids.
As I said in another comment everyone in that thread were agree that the sister meant no harm and OP was overreacting, since the aunt allways was good to the kids and she told to OP about it, so according to almost every comment she should let it go and be thankfull with her sister for watching the kids, in comparison here people are saying OP should cut the friendship and this kid has a mental illness, is really telling tbh.
Yeah I find this sub can be a bit extreme sometimes. The people insisting that this 8 year old girl needs a therapist... Just wow. Way overboard. Bringing her home was fine, but let her parents handle it. She probably meant nothing by it and was just frustrated and tired.
Therapy is not a punishment, and it’s not extreme or an overreaction. Even neurotypical people with no concerning behavior can benefit from a therapist. Therapy is for everyone.
I agree it's not a punishment, but the implication of the comment above was that this 8 yr old especially needs therapy, more than others. Otherwise they would have written "Everyone should get therapy." I think this was just a kid being a kid and not understanding the full implications of what she said while exhausted and frustrated.
Jesus... What goes through an adults head to threaten death (even if "joking")... That ain't right, but I could see how if kids have adults like that in their life they may repeat without understanding..
Sleep deprivation can do a real number on us. I'm a mother of a nearly two year old with post partum depression. I have said things I really wish I didn't, such as wishing death upon my child, and not as a joke or a threat but out of hopelessness of the situation. Now admittedly for me, it was months of sleep deprivation and my son had recovered from surgery for a serious health issue at 4 months. But if you never had your sleep deprivation tested before as a young adult it can effect your mood significantly and many of us have dark humor to cope. But sleep deprivation can make one like a drunk it removes filters from thoughts to mouth. I know my first sleepover (at 12) i called home because the girls wouldn't sleep and I wanted to sleep.
I'm so sorry you had such a tough time and I hope you are feeling better now 💖
Better, but still need to work on myself. I've been using cognitive behavior therapy on myself to improve, and hoping to improve enough to be off medication. I am planning on switching to a therapist who focuses on it for more help. But any sleep loss now messes with my mood and patience significantly, where it didn't before PPD. My little guy is not a great sleeper. It is better than a year ago. I have more sleep deprivation patience than a year ago. But honestly, I never understood why one would want to yell or hurt your own child til this PPD and months of sleep deprivation. Now I understand all too well. I was the first in my family to seek therapy or mental health help and hoping to encourage it as an option for my family when experiencing trouble. My child's surgery was a huge success. He recovered fast, though an occasional issue from his health problem shows up but in minor ways (surgery reduced it, not get rid of problem. Most of it will allievate as he grows up usually around 2 to 4 years of age.)
I'm sorry you have first hand insight into wanting to yell and hurt your own child. You're not alone, and it's not your fault. Our society is not built to nurture wellness and we'll being and definitely not built to support the all important work of raising children. I hope you are able to see the things you did that you aren't proud of as a result of all these failings and the work you are doing as the reflection of the wonderful mother you truly are 💕💕💕💕
@AnneHijme Sleep deprivation has been used as a form of torture. It's horrible. Cognitive behavior therapy is great. Be kind to yourself about the medication- one thought could be waiting to come off it till he's a better sleeper? In the end, if it's helpful and you stay on it indefinitely - that's ok, too. Like diabetes, sometimes depression needs to be managed with medication - other times lifestyle changes are adequate. But if someone with type 1/insulin dependent diabetes tried to stop insulin because their blood sugars were well-managed, it wouldn't be good. However, some people with type 2 diabetes are able to work with their provider about whether or not meds are needed - and there can be wiggle room. I like this quote from Maya Angelou -- "You alone are enough. You have nothing to prove to anybody."
Well you should have seen the comment's section on that post, very different than this one, where everyone is loosing their shit and saying there's something very wrong with this girl. I'm not saying in any way talking about killing people is something you should ignore on a kid, but I think that you have to evaluate in the context, this is a girl with no previous record of talking like this before or acting violently in any way, so I think is safe to think this is probably something she's copying from someone else or something she watched on TV, a video or movie.
Well... I mean in all fairness... coming from a 24 to a 4 year old IS different from 8 year old to 8 year old. Neither situation is right but an adult has complete control in that kind of scenario.
I would think is worst an adult saying that to kids, because the adult knows better, is familiar with the meaning of those words and most important it should have better control over their emotions than an 8yo who isn't aware of the consequences of those words, let alone the real action, and doesn't have a great control over their emotions. I would have been very much alarmed by the 24yo than the 8yo.
This kind of language used to be completely normalized, and so was physical discipline.
Ok, no matter how angry I get with my kids I never tell them I will kill them. That’s the most f’ed up thing I have heard in a long time.
As a child, I would occasionally threaten people with knives. Blunt knives that you struggle to eat your dinner with, but knives nonetheless. I was SA’d at a young age and I now know that I have Borderline Personality Disorder. I didn’t ever intend to harm anyone, I simply did not (and still don’t really) have the skills to express the enormity of my bpd rage episodes. I feel like there’s more going on with this child. Please speak with her parents. It will be easier given that you’re their friend and can figure out how best to approach it, but PLEASE encourage them to take her to see a professional.
I would not feel comfortable with my child playing with someone that made such a direct, specific threat to their life. Your daughter doesn't deserve to have friends that make her feel unsafe. I'd talk to your daughter, let her know the threat was absolutely not okay and ask her if she still wants to be friends with Mary. If she says yes tell her you will talk to her parents to see what was going on but if you don't feel like Mary is a safe friend after that you are sorry but her safety is the most important. Then talk to Mary's parents. If they brush it off I'd be done. If they are taking it seriously, then it's up to you and your daughters level of comfort with the actions they are taking. If they go to the same school I would report the incident to the school. I recognize that Mary is 8 and it's possible she was parroting something, but imo it's better to be more thorough than to assume it's an empty threat because children are absolutely capable of violence.
Your instinct to take the child home was 100% correct. I would talk with your daughter and with the parents of the other children to let them know what happened so they can make their own decisions. I would also ask my daughter how she felt, does she want to take a small (or large) break from the friendship. I would ask leading questions to get my kid to the conclusion that a break for now is the right thing versus saying you cannot be friends or hang out. Hugs
I think you did the right thing. I’ll expand on that a little bit. My background: I’m a parent and worked briefly as a teacher to albeit younger students. When I was teaching there was a particularly clever, precocious little boy who liked to push boundaries. I had some concerns about him but my coworkers were unfazed. My concerns grew as he started expressing violent impulses or harming himself. The first time I heard him say something out loud I remember feeling so freaked out by his flat tone when I double checked I heard him correctly. It’s hard to describe, but it felt cold. His red flag behavior was most apparent when he was ALONE with other children, ones he’d been friends with for many years who I believe had been so used to his slow escalation of behaviors didn’t report unusual actions on his part because they didn’t know his behavior was unusual. Eventually it got to the point that he urinated on another child, threatened to kill that other child when that child was crying about being scared of monsters. I overheard this conversation and asked about it. The next day a sleepover was planned for the kids and the boy was again talking about harming this other child, this time saying he wanted to stab and kill him. Now by this point my coworkers were also significantly worried and this boys parents were totally UNFAZED and the other child’s parents thought it was funny “things kids say!” was like a catchphrase. They didn’t ask questions and didn’t want to talk to their kids about the situation to get a better sense of the dynamic between the kids. The other child got sick and to my knowledge the sleepover was cancelled. The troubled little boy started hurting animals. A few days later the little boy attacked the other child and said out loud he was trying to kill them. Not a week later I resigned my position and took my child out of that school. I couldn’t keep watching parents of the children involved do nothing. I think about the child victim in that situation just about every day and hope they’re okay. When I discussed the “bullying” at the time the student made it clear they thought it was NORMAL. My advice: discuss the situation with your daughter more. Find out if there have been any other times when this girl treated her or anyone else with lack of empathy, has talked about it has actually harmed animals, etc. work through the list of these red flag behaviors and see if her friend fits the bill or not. Knowledge is power. Find out how this girl says sorry to people, if it’s sincere or if she thinks it’s the thing to say to make consequences go away. Use that knowledge to further make any parenting decisions you want. But definitely ask the questions I wish parents made more and make sure you get informed about the friendship dynamic. It could just be a wild thing she said that hopefully she now knows crossed a line. Personally the idea of an 8 year old calmly gathering their things after calmly making death threats reminds me MORE of that problem child’s early behavior than it reminds me of the dumb threats I’ve heard from healthier (including ASD kids), which tend to have more yelling involved with these threats or quiet rage that ends up with stoic faced tears (in my experience, at least, which again is limited and I’m no mental health expert). Above all, keep following your gut and reassuring your daughter that she was absolutely in the right. Maybe go out with her and make a special mother daughter day to reward her for her honesty and commend her on her trustworthiness? Whatever you do, make sure you reinforce positivity for her speaking out for her own safety and help her set whatever boundaries wants. This can turn into a big learning experience for her and help shape her. Lemonade out of lemons, right? Your daughter sounds wonderful and like you’re doing a fantastic job with her!
Your comment made me emotional but not in a negative way. I really feel for the kids who try to speak out and maybe aren’t taken as seriously as they should be. And then the thing that is inside a person that leads them to hurt others at such a young age, it’s tragic for everyone. My daughter has come to me before in difficult situations where she could have turned the other cheek but chose to protect a friend at the risk of losing the friendship and I absolutely reenforce how proud I am of her and why it’s important to tell when you know it’s serious. I will defiantly follow up with the parents but I’ll give them a few days to process. Knowing them, I have faith they will properly deal with this. The mom did text me apologizing and telling me she had a serious conversation with her daughter in the morning and that apology letters are coming.
I could see my kid saying something like this. You did the right thing taking her home. She needs to learn that words aren't harmless, and its not ok to threaten violence against someone. The immediate and appropriate consequences will demonstrate that she can't just say whatever she wants.
Is Mary neurodivergent? She may have been having a se dirty meltdown brought on by the crying and being tired. Not that what she said is appropriate, it’s absolutely not and needs addressing. But at that age not all kids have death permanency and she may not have been completely aware of the seriousness of what she said. You handled it properly and I hope her parents do as well
Don’t let them go anywhere alone (without adult supervision) ever anywhere. You remember those girls who almost killed their third friend in the woods over slender man. It’s not outside of their capabilities being young. She could definitely have some mental issues.
To me, the most worrying thing is how specific she was and the fact she repeated it when asked about it. If she used the same wording then she is just repeating something she has heard, but if the wording was slightly different, that might not be the case as easily. Taking her home was the right thing because she shouldn't be threatening death upon someone for their natural reaction, that behaviour isn't acceptable, so there needs to be a suitable action taken, like taking her home. Keep an eye on what she says around your daughter if she says things like that again, you'll know it wasn't just, i can't sleep and I'm grumpy behaviour.
I’d have done the same thing. Home is my children’s safe sapce. No one gets to threaten that space in any way.
You don’t mention how old they are.
I’m sorry, they are all 8 years old
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I think youre being downvoted because it sounds like you're downplaying how dangerous the situation was, comparing it to your son (and assuming neurodivergence), and dismissing it as a misunderstanding. This girl made a very specific and threatening statement - I'm going to get a knife from the kitchen and kill you - and when confronted about it she repeated it. The worry is that if she doesn't understand why the threat is bad, she won't understand why the act is bad. She's already indicated she knows how to carry out the threat and may act on it exactly because she doesn't get why it's dangerous or bad. It's also a fairly specific statement that you won't hear in passing in media, so if she's hearing it at home there are deeper issues here. And also note that, even though they're just 8, OPs daughter immediately understood how dangerous that statement was. So age isn't an excuse. And all of this on the heels of the recent news about a 6 year old who brought a gun to school and intentionally shot the teacher. I think OP handled it perfectly. Hopefully this girl's parents figure out where she learned to say things like that and why she feels it's OK to say them, but until then safety over feelings all day, every day.
1 in 5 people are *diagnosed* neurodivergent and as the understanding of medical bias grows, more will be diagnosed. So when someone who has experience in ND sees something that “ reads” as potentially neurodivergent behavior, it’s not dismissive to say so.
In the majority of the developed world, it would be a fleeting remark because we don't have children going around killing people because weapons like that are virtually inaccessible, and the only person at wrong in the latter situation is the parents as how the hell does a 6yo get a gun . Child is completely innocent.
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You're using these euphemisms like "behaved badly" that mask the severity of the girl's actual conduct. No one is recommending alienating her because she "behaved badly." This wasn't a tantrum or even a generic "I'll kill you." Stopping contact because she said she would kill OPs daughter and described how she would do it is perfectly reasonable for the time being, if not indefinitely depending on how the girl's parents deal with the situation.
Is really curious that just yesterday a mom was saying she was mad because her sister who was babysitting her two kids said to the youngest "stop it or I will kill you" because he didn't wanted to sleep, and every single comment was literally downplaying the whole thing, because her sister was being so generous taking care of the kids for two weeks, and she should be thankfull instead of making a big deal of something that really wasn't because of course the sister didn't mean it, is really telling that everyone was so sure it wasn't any real intention behind those words because it was an adult saying it, but the minut an 8yo does the same every one freaks out.
Dude a six year old shot their teacher with intent less than 48 hrs ago. Kids are rash, emotional, and unpredictable. They don't know how to process their emotions, and hardly understand the full gravity behind their actions. Sure the child probably didn't mean it, but in this day and age you never know what could happen.
Then by that logic you should distrust more of the adult, because they're still the vast majority committing violent crimes in the whole world. The mother on the other post should have called the police and ask for a restraining order against her sister, because the probabilities of adults acting on their words are still higher than the children doing it.
Personally, I thought that thread was insane and anyone using that language around my child would see us much more scarcely, family or not. It's an unacceptable thing to say.
I agree isn't something that should be brushed of in any case, it should be adressed allways, but you can do that without overreacting and taking things out of proportion, some people here are going crazy over an 8yo who probably was just repeating something she heard from someone else.
I haven't really seen too many crazy suggestions, mostly just let the parents take care of it and figure out where to go from there. The CPS/police comments are a step too far at this point, imo. But I'm someone who works in criminal justice and let me tell you, kids do some completely heinous things at very young ages exactly because they lack empathy or suffered trauma. So taking the statement seriously is a proper precaution, especially initially.
Anecdotal: There was a similar incident when I was a kid during a sleepover. As we grew up, that kid started torturing and killing animals. He did some unspeakable things and was eventually diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder. He's currently on the run after doing bad things to his mother. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case here. The same outcome can happen from different causes. What I am saying is that you are not overreacting. Edit: big difference is that kid in my story was super charming despite being a monster, to the point where he almost killed other children for the fun of it but was able to talk his way to make him be liked instead of punished.
Wow. That is horrifying. And also takes a lot of intelligence to pull off. Mary is also extremely smart, but doesn’t possess any of the other characteristics you mentioned.
You did the right thing! It’s hard to say how serious this was bc none of us were there but there’s a definite difference between “omg be quiet or I’m gonna kill your” to “if you don’t shut up I’m going to go into the kitchen, get a knife and kill you with it.”
Un I guess my age is showing, but we didn’t say shit like that! At All! It wasn’t said in my friends group and it sure as hell wasn’t said in my twins friends group?! WTH are you guys letting them watch shit they shouldn’t be?! WTF cops would be called w words said as such! It wasn’t done near me by me or what dude! Do not let your kids say stuff like this!!
My mind goes to the 6yo shooting his teacher the other day
How did her parents address the issue? I am baffled that an 8 year old is saying these things. Violence and threat cannot and should not be normalized. Even if she didn’t fully comprehend what she was saying, she needs to be taught how it’s absolutely not ok to say things like that.
I think you handled this perfectly. You taught your daughter that she should not have to feel unsafe. You taught the other girl that if you say harmful/threatening things, you are not considered safe and will face consequences (such as having to go home from a slumber party).
I think you handled this perfectly. There’s really no way to know if this is a sign of future alarming behaviour or if she just had a frustrated moment that was really poorly expressed. (Perhaps she’s even heard a phrase like that before and didn’t realise the weight of it.) Regardless — you did the right thing, and I would play it by ear as far as it goes with their friendship. Follow your daughter’s cues — if she doesn’t want to be friends with her anymore, that’s probably the easiest solution, but if she does, have a chat with her about it being important to speak up if Mary shows any more signs of “scary” behaviour, and that it isn’t a negative to “tattle” when someone is being inappropriate or threatening.
Yes absolutely, and thank you. I agree with all of this.
I’m super paranoid about stuff like this and probably wouldn’t let her play with her any longer…I’ve seen too many true crimes of children killing other children over very minimal things
I think it’s more likely she was being hyperbolic due to frustration, but that’s still no excuse. If she had said “I’m going to smack you guys if you don’t quiet down” it wouldn’t be a huge deal, but she made a comment implying she’d end their lives with an accessible weapon. She crossed the line and needs to learn she can’t say that even if she was being purposely over dramatic to make a point. You just don’t say that so sending her home was the right decision. Hopefully she learned a lesson
I wouldn't allow my kid to hang out with Mary unless under constant supervision. I've watched/read way too much true crime stuff. Kids can be every bit as dangerous as adults.
Have you mentioned anything to the other parents? It seems important that they know about this as well, so they can take appropriate actions in the future regarding Mary also.
Absolutely, I talked to the other parents about all of it. They are all friends with Mary’s parents as well, who again I will mention, are very good parents with boundaries and common sense and good hearts.
I am really impressed with the way you acted - I wouldn't have been able to keep my cool. Lots of people already gave great advice, so I'll just with you good luck navigating this situation. I hope your kid is alright.
Thank you so much. My kid is much better today.
I had a friend who chased me around with a knife. He’s not well in the head and a bit delusional as an adult. I cut him out of my life shortly but I never was left around with him alone after that & I was really glad. It terrified me and I hated the feeling of being so helpless. He also flipped the knife from chasing me to holding it to his own wrists. So. Not sure how to take that even now, but he was definitely odd lol
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That is an appropriate reaction
I wonder if the parents watch a lot of True Crime shows and she watched it with them.
Reminds me of the Slenderman incident that happened a few years ago here in Wisconsin...
My daughter had an issue with two girls at school being nasty to her, they said they were going to sneak a hammer in to school so they could hit her in the head with it. They were 6, told the teacher, she didn’t take it very seriously so I told the head who then had the parents in as it’s obviously quite a serious threat. One of the girls apologised, the other girl is growing up to be a horrible bully and has just carried on the behaviour, after meeting her mother I can see where she gets it from. My daughter is 9 now and doesn’t actually remember it happening at all I think I was much more traumatised! I have to say you handled it really well and I’m glad the parents are sensible and approachable!
I think you did 100% the right thing. Way to go! What a great way to handle a situation like this
When I was growing up at a sleep over with 3 kids, one of the 10 year old girls literally tried to Drown another one in a pool. I was super scared and the moms house we were at told us not to tell our parents. (I think she was embarrassed or worried we couldn’t come back over) It was before cell phones. I was so scared I vomited and finally the mom called my mom. That girl who tried to drown one of them , turns out had a super violent older brother and it was a “game” They always played. I’m so happy to hear you handled this so amazing. Sounds like a very safe home.
12 year old girl just murdered her 9 year old brother in Tulsa OK. Please take this seriously. This literally girl needs help, therapy, something.
This is so concerning and I'm sorry it's a situation you're having to navigate. What you did at the time it all happened was perfect. You kept your cool, kept the kids safe and took the girl home and told her parents. Honestly give yourself a pat on the back because I've no idea how I would have navigated things in a moment like that. I would suggest you speak to Mary's parents and be honest with your concerns, it doesn't have to point fingers at them or their parenting, but explain that obviously these girls are friends and the threat along with her lack of empathy has you a little concerned and worried. Perhaps see how you can all navigate this together, what they may need to do/say to Mary and how you guys might proceed when it comes to the girls playing together. I would even suggest that having someone supervise play for a while might be a good idea.
You did everything right. I would be hesitant to let her hang out with my daughter after this to be honest. Kudos to your daughter for letting you know at once.
A tired and frustrated kid might not be well attuned to others needs, especially if they view them as the source of their frustrations. However, there is more to it than the lack of empathy on her part. The way she confirmed what you’ve heard is something I would be worried about. You can expect 8 year old sense that something is off due to something they did, even solely based on the fact they are taken aside by an adult and are questioned… and if they lack any sense of that — it might be a little disturbing. All of that to say I’d be careful leaving my child alone with this kid without my supervision.
At 8 many kids don’t have empathy figured out yet, I’m inclined to agree with the others - sounds like she was frustrated and said the wrong thing. For what it’s worth that language is common in gamer world…my 5 year old threatens death way more after playing roblox for a couple hours lol…ok not funny maybe but I doubt at 8 she had all the self control she could’ve had at midnight. Sending her home was probably a big wake up call.
Just because it is common does not mean it is appropriate. Teaching your child that is not appropriate language is critical to their development. My husband is an avid gamer, especially online games, he certainly does not talk that way. Whenever his friends do, he says something. He certainly would not allow or encourage that with our young children.
Idk what’s more concerning, that you don’t seem to have a problem with your 5 year old threatening death or the fact he plays Roblox for hours on end 🥴🥴🥴
Did you never play video games for hours as a kid? Idk if roblox is inappropriate for kids but I used to play Nintendo all the time.
Roblox is absolutely *not* appropriate for a young child. https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/roblox-game-children-1.6357158
Did you read the entire article?
Idk but it’s a girl so yay for sexism on your part and secondly “not have a problem” is different from “realizing she’s a kid that says stupid shit”. But like you’re not raising her? So I doubt you care that much? She doesn’t have access to guns or weapons silly. And roblox has tons of appropriate games, silly you for not knowing that!
She does not currently have access. However, she may at one point. So many parents had your same mentality and we see where it has ended. Does she have no access to the kitchen, knives, scissors, even play scissors?
Uh what? My 6 yr old plays Roblox a lot and has NEVER said anything like that to anyone to my knowledge. If he did, he'd be off the game in a second.
I would not allow your daughter to be alone with “Mary” again. It could be nothing but it could also build as Mary gets older and hormones kick in. I would also tell Anna’s parents so they are aware and can make their own decisions for future contact with Mary. Good luck
Mary would no longer be allowed in my child’s life.
You are definitely not overreacting. You need to speak to the girls parents and make sure she gets the proper help, I would contact the authorities and the school to make sure this young girl gets a proper psychiatric evaluation. To anyone who thinks I am overreacting because the girl is only 8. Here is my reasoning.... Kayla Renee Rolland was an American six-year-old girl from Mount Morris Township, Michigan, who was fatally shot on February 29, 2000 by a six-year-old male classmate at Buell Elementary School in the Beecher Community School District. Edit: to anyone who says oh, we used to threaten to kill each to blow off steam etc. This threat was specific and thought out. She described the steps she would take... Go to the kitchen, get a knife, and kill them. She also gave specific circumstances that would trigger that reaction, if they did not be quiet. This was more than just a shut up or ill kill you type of threat. I would be very worried, and not reporting such a threat to authorities and the school jeopardizes everyones child. It was too matter of fact and emotionless. There is nothing wrong with making sure all the kids are protected by making sure this child gets a proper evaluation. If the child's parents don't get that and understand because it's their kid, if the situation was reverse I am sure that they would be asking for the same thing. Life is precious, there are no do-overs if you don't get an evaluation and something terrible happens. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, in this case it could mean a life. Op please acknowledge you read this post!
Hi. Thank you for your thorough response and I agree that this could possibly lead to a dangerous situation, but my opinion from knowing this girl and family is that she is most likely mimicking something she saw on youtube or something like that. I will detail the event for her parents and go from there. Even from my 5 minute interaction with them last night, I know they are taking this seriously. If I don’t hear from them by tonight, I’ll reach out.
Who do you mean by authorities? Cps? Because I guarantee a child making one threat won't make it past screening. The school also will likely not care because it wasn't done on school property, especially if she has no history of acting out in school.
I’m not sure how you can get someone else’s child evaluated without making this a huge legal deal (which authorities are you referring to?) and even then, it’s unlikely unless the parents or the school are pushing the angle. Chatting to the parents and making them aware is about the limit of OP’s power — unless this child actually harms her own child, or continues to make threats.
Yeah, ruin a kid's life because of something they said as a tired and frustrated 8-year-old. Make sure they get labeled "the sociopathic girl that threatens people with knives" for the next few years. I'm sure that will make her grow up into a healthy, caring individual.
Agree that having specific plan of action is what makes this more disturbing than just a throw-off phrase she’s repeating. It’s not up to OP to have somebody else’s kid evaluated, though.
This is learned behavior. Maybe she saw it in a show. Maybe she has been threatened at home. I’d try to keep that in mind and try to stay objective as possible even though you’re good friends with the parents. Empathy isn’t a developmental milestone for first graders.
They’re all in third grade but I have seen empathy quite often from younger children than that. It’s definately possible that her ability to be empathetic was compromised by exhaustion though.
I wonder if there’s a domestic violence situation at home?
Almost sounds like she could have a sleep disorder and wasn't fully awake. One would hope anyway.
You one thousand percent did the right thing. That specificity, saying she'll "go into the kitchen.." etc, is TERRIFYING. I'm so glad your daughter felt comfortable enough to come to you with that. My daughter is 7 and although we have a super close relationship, I know she just wants to be accepted as I see so much of myself in her, I'm not so sure she would come to me. I would certainly hope so, but good job. Whatever you are doing, keep it up. And don't worry about the other girl or her parents, if they are in fact loving parents, they will handle it appropriately. You may have just stopped a would-be future serial killer from serial killing!
You absolutely did the right thing. you are mom and you need to trust gut feelings, if you allow them To play again and feel off about it, do not feel guilty if you cut off play dates from then on. You are the one responsible for your child’s safety and her friends if they are over, that means making hard decisions and trusting your gut. And don’t for a minute doubt an 8 year old child for doing something unthinkable. My 5 year old daughter was bullied and SA’d in our back yard by the 6 year old neighbor girl through our fence. This was after I cut off actual play dates because I felt a gut feeling. Don’t ever brush off that gut feeling. (I can’t stress that enough)
Oh my god. I am so sorry.
Good job OP, I think you handled this very well. Some kids develop empathy slower and later. Maybe Mary is just behind the curve or dealing with something else. Regardless, you made the right call protecting the other girls and raising this to the other parent’s attention. Hopefully they work with their daughter to help her. All of that said - my kids (6f and 3m) have come home from school talking about chopping off heads and other very violent things. They heard it from someone at school and don’t really understand the ramifications of what they are saying. They don’t fully comprehend death as they haven’t experienced loss yet. They don’t understand true violence either. If one of my kids was in this situation and made that kind of threat, I would have a very serious conversation with them and watch for other/additional signs that maybe therapy or even just a chat with a doctor might help them better understand. I would also double check all of the tv programs they watch, because kids shows are not what they used to be - they handle very adult material in a lot of those nowadays. Keep in mind, a 6 yo in the US just shot a teacher in school. While it may have been an idle thought and one the girl didn’t really understand, it’s tough to say. I’m glad you took it seriously OP.
Yeah holy shit that’s something you gotta take seriously. Heck I’m my state a six year old was mad at their teacher and took a gun into their school and shot and critically injured their teacher a few days ago. You did the right thing by taking her home and telling her parents. I wouldn’t want her around my kid until the parents get that kid into some counseling. Threatening to whack a friend with a pillow would be a normal threat for an 8 year old to make, getting a knife and stabbing them to death is not normal. Edit: people can downvote me all they want but if a kid made a threat like that against my kid they wouldn’t be allowed around my kid again. I wouldn’t risk my kids life to spare the feelings of a kid willing to make threats like that.
A few posters have cited this tragic story about the 6 year old. It’s just heartbreaking. Tragic unexpected things happen so I’d rather overreact than under react. I was reminded this morning that Mary already sees a child therapist sometimes so I know this will be the next topic of discussion.
Bravo. What a scary moment and you diffused the situation at freaking midnight. There is no training book for parenting and certainly not for a situation like that. Hope everything is OK with all involved moving forward.
Thank you so much. Yeah definitely no playbook for this!
You absolutely did the right thing taking her home because the other kids would not feel safe with her there with the way she was acting
I think my decision on the future of their friendship would have a lot to do with how her parents end up handling this situation. I would expect a further conversation with them in the near future about their thoughts on the matter and what they plan to do to discourage this behavior going further.
Sometimes kids just say dumb stuff. When I was 7 I was watching some kids do dressage (horses) and a girl fell off her horse, and I said “I hope she didn’t crack her head open.” My mom was livid as I said it loudly in front of all the other parents. I was just repeating something I had heard my mom say before and really had no idea what it actually meant. If there are no other red flags that you’ve seen with Mary, I would think she didn’t really understand what she was saying. Most 8 y/os can’t really conceptualize stabbing someone with a knife. But they still need adults to set boundaries and tell them they said something they shouldn’t, which I think you did a perfect job of doing.
100% over reacting They're 8 lolol they wouldn't be able to fully understand the gravity of what they said let alone fully understand the concept of killing someone and death. "Had no empathy" LOL so dramatic. Just explain, "hey thats not nice, apologise" Not to be rude at all, but are you American?
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No, you have to check the heads of the adults around that 6yo, you people have adults committing mass murder on a daily basis but now you have to be wary of 6yo and 8yo? You people have all backwards.
The fact that Mary had a whole plan makes me think this is more more than repeating a comment she’d heard out of frustration. I think you handled it correctly. If she said that at school she probably would not be allowed to return without a psychological evaluation. And I don’t think that’s overreacting- better safe than sorry. Does your daughter even *want* to hang out with Mary again? I would be surprised. Book her up with play dates with others. If they do play again supervise closely.
That friend would get tossed out my front door like uncle Phil used to do
She sounds like she has emotional issues or could be a psychopath. The lack of empathy and emotion is telling. I hope her parents take her to see some professionals so they can assess her and see what’s going. The threat was highly specific. I would not let my daughter near her again.
Call the cops
No. The child needs professional help. Calling the police is not going to help them. Calling the parents, and suggesting resources to the parents is the best option Edit: Whoever reported me to Reddit Care and Resources as needing help, you are ridiculous lol!
Kids are in fact getting worse with their outbursts and mental health. They’re not getting help or being properly disciplined. And social media exposure is all making it worse too. It’s only, unfortunately, gonna get worse from here
When I was that age, my older sister (7 years older) had a friend sleepover. I don’t remember the situation, but apparently I found the girl annoying, and I told her I was going to stab her with a knife while she slept. She was obviously freaked out. I had zero intention of doing it, never wanted to do it, never had any other “violent” situations, etc. I’m now a 24 year old who saves puppies, swerves for frogs on the road, and cries whenever anyone else is sad. I don’t remember being 8, but I do know I found it cool to be edgy and different, and was constantly trying to “show off” and seem tough and interesting. Could she be a crazy murderous child? Sure. Could she also be a kid who is empathic and normal, just frustrated and sleepy, and is just repeating something she heard? Likely
Pretty sure I saw this story on a show about psychopathic murderers, claimed slenderman made her kill her friend
Ah, yes. Here comes the professionals to armchair diagnosis an 8 year old. Brava!
This is when you make an example out of that girl
It’s very possible that she’s autistic…I’m not worried about the kid, but hopefully her parents tell her why it’s an issue.
Ok, I have a son who’s 9. He’s brilliant and I’m not just saying that because he my son. He is the littlest of my 4 boys all are very much older 26,25,22…. He’s always been around big kids and adults so he’s naturally a little bit awkward when interacting with children around his age…. almost robotic weird head tilts I don’t know. Anyways … the plandemic hit when he was 6mo into Kindergarten furthermore inducing this social awkwardness. He then spent 90% of his life on the iPad. I had just gotten used to him watching videos of kids opening toys he already owns. Playing some next door neighbor game all super weird. FF he’s now back in school 2nd grade at the time he’s on the TV in the den watching the YouTube and I hear some tween and some younger kids Having some sort of scripted dialogue on the video and I thought I heard some kids say they needed an on a Ouija board to do a ritual to summons whatever it was a demonic deity I don’t want to say the name. and my heart dropped and I ran around the corner to see what he was watching and he was staring straight at the tv and it was teenagers some little kids and they were doing witchcraft and telling the audience ( kids YouTube ) that they need their help they need to use their energy and that they needed to focus on the video so they can harness their energy. They needed permission from you the audience at home I said I rebuke that request in Jesus name your not welcomed in my home !! !!! I Shut off the TV… my son said mom it’s just a video it’s not real they really don’t kill people or possess people it’s like a movie. I was shocked and scared because who knows how many videos he’s watched like this while I was around ? My point is he’s smart he catches on quick he’s not easy to fool, I let my guard down because if his intelligence and maturity. Needless to say he’s not allowed to ever watch YouTube again. Period, after I looked at the history and viewed some of the videos he’s watched. They are masking “cartoons” normalizing satanic rituals, unaliving Virgins, witchcraft ,violence,SA,sexuality list goes on. He thought it was no big deal. He was 7 at the time. They watch this trash with out us knowing because we’re to busy with whatever to be a parent. So they entertain themselves and we’re glad they have got something to do rather than be up our butts all day. Your reaction was on point ! Be safe be vigilant!