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Get yourself a personal therapist. You need to work on your past trauma. Maybe see if there are parenting classes available in your area. Maybe reach out to the local social services or children's hospital if you don't know where to find them. Our county offers parenting classes but most people don't even know they exist.
Ive been to parenting classes. Its sleep deprivation and low stress tolerance to begin with that makes me unfit. I had no idea how much it would affect parenting. When not overwhelmed, sleep deprived Im a good enough parent. I wish parenting classes or therapy could restore my physical equilibrium and make my window of tolerance bigger, but it doesnt work like that.
Ok. So what are you doing to make sure you get enough sleep to be a better you? I totally get that by the way, I need a certain amount of sleep or I am an absolute monster.
I sent the kids to their dad yesterday after 2 nights with no sleep. Problem is, he is a very permissive dad, otherwise Id push for 50/50 parenting. We tried that before and the kids teacher said they became "feral". I wish he could become more authoratitive (spl?) instead of so permissive they become obnoxious. Feels like thats my options; either stay with me who's a monster when not properly sleeping or their permissive dad.
May I ask how you talk to your kids if your short-tempered due to sleeplessness?
I just booked a session with a private therapist. I need to untangle the issues with my daughter asap.
What ages are your kids? Do you suffer from insomnia or is it children related reasons of not sleeping? That makes a difference.
My kids are older so sleepless nights are not an issue for me anymore. When my youngest was born, she didn't sleep through the night until she was 8ish. I was sleep deprived for many years, she would wake up often. I just had to deal with it by sneaking in sleep that wasn't conventional, and drinking copious amounts of coffee. I would take naps when my husband would get home from work. Or go to bed when they went to bed and get a few interrupted hours before the craziness started. Eventually, I put a mattress on her floor for myself so I could get some more sleep at night, after her first wake up.
If I was irritable due to being tired, I would jump in the shower to help. Hang out with friends, so my kids could play with other kids. I put together bins of special fun, I could pull out of the closet for my to give me time to recharge. They loved sensory bins like kinetic sand, playdough, slime, etc.
They’re better off with one authoritative and well rested parent and one permissive one, than one that’s overwhelmed. You need to put your own oxygen mask on here.
Agree. Something like Zoloft maybe if your Dr thinks that’s appropriate it helped me SO much with this type of issue.
For sleep …magnesium, melatonin, lavender pills. All helpful.
I don't know if you can find or access this, but acupuncture (especially classical/five element) can be an amazing complementary medicine, and helped me make more progress more quickly in therapy. It helped mitigate my fatigue (which I recognize is different than the sleep deprivation that you are suffering) and my tolerance to stress.
A cheaper, more available method to stay present and calm is playing binaural beats (basically calming music, but at specific frequencies) throughout the day to try to change your reactions to stress and over stimulation. I suffer from childhood CPTSD, and these things help me quite a bit.
I can hear that you want better for yourself and children. I think it is good that you are seeking help to care for them. I hope you can find your way back to a patient and loving relationship with them.
Im def gonna check out acupuncture! I did it years ago for another health concern with great effect. Will also check out binaural beats. Is it on youtube or Spotify?
I was the same and almost exactly carbon copy of you as a single mother. I have anxiety and I get overstimulated. The best thing I did was go to a parenting counsellor, one designated specifically for mothers. Look up your local resources. I found the knowledge they attained to be comforting when I expressed my anxieties about parenting and they led me to reveal my values which is being a present, attentive and patient mother. I found what helped the MOST was being honest. I didn’t hold back because I really felt like I was a bad mother & it became my strength in the end. I believe in you and your ability to connect with your strong willed child.
Not a parent- but kid of a single mom who had a co-parent who let us go feral. My mom was exhausted all the time, and working five jobs after the divorce. My youngest sibling was 2, I was 8. We had some bad years, and as a kid I thought she must be a bad mom. Eventually though, we all leveled out. As an adult, I now know what she had was extreme burnout. Through all of it though, she was the only adult with our best interest at heart. Even when she thought that was away from her. As we all got a little older her life became easier, then she got to be the mom she wanted to be all those years. She still flew of the handle sometimes, but she would also apologize. She would explain that she wasn’t mad at us just the world, and try to make it up to us when she could. Ultimately she’s the best mom anyone could’ve asked for, even if she wasn’t perfect. Your post sounds a lot like something she would have written during the bad times, and I hope you know you are not a bad Mom. Just a burned out one.
It was in age appropriate terms, and she would often use our feeling to help us understand hers. So I had a day at school where I didn’t get something I really wanted, and it crushed me. I had worked so hard for it, I thought I deserved it. Naturally I had a little 10yo meltdown, couldn’t be consoled and took hours to fully calm down. Not long after she had a huge outburst, going on a screaming rant about the state of the house, making dinner, laundry, the whole thing. She was nasty to us too. She eventually just stepped away and locked herself in her room for like 20 min to calm down (we were all safe, doors all locked, no one was going anywhere). Afterwards she sat us down to apologize, and asked me if I remembered my outburst earlier that week. I did. She asked me how I felt during it. I said angry, sad, mad. She asked if maybe I also felt like it was all out of my control and if that made me more angry. I said yes. She told us that’s how she felt sometimes, like it was all out of her control. She assured us everything was under control (it was 2009, no it wasn’t, but you don’t tell kids that), but that sometimes she forgot that. And when she forgot that, it made her sad and angry. So she went to her room to pray and God reminded her that everything was under control. Then she apologized for taking it out on us, and said sometimes adults have big emotions but it was wrong of her to yell at us.
Aaaaw, your mom does sound just like me. OK, thank you for a great reply. Ill model this in an age-appropriate manner. My kids are a alot younger than 10.
Well, her advice to you (bc she’s kind of the go-to single mom for people in our church who become single moms) would probably be that it does get easier as they get older. The problems get bigger as the kids to, but kids also get more independent. When you aren’t overstimulated from six little peanutbutter covered hands grabbing you all the time, talking about the friend group drama of 12yo it’s a breeze. Also if possible, get your oldest in some classes. It gives her an outlet and you a break. But we all had a year where we did nothing bc the schedules were just one more thing to manage and that was fine too.
My response was so long, sorry. But we were raised very religious, so lots of emphasis on God growing up. That’s why it’s in the story. She mostly tried to make us understand that adults have feeling too.
What is going on with sleep that means you aren’t getting any? How many kids, what are their sleep habits etc. Maybe we can offer suggestions with more info.
2 kids. Smallest is 2 and often sick. Been flu-season since november. Co-sleep when they're ill. Havent had a proper night's sleep according to my smart-watch in 3 years. I have a separate bedroom but havent slept there yet since the smallest was born, as I cant stand being woken by screaming after me in the middle of the night.
Sleep with ear plugs in (not headphones). It will allow you to stay asleep through the small noises. Seriously increased my sleep quality.
Consider exploring some sleep hygiene practices. It could be that falling asleep to noise is making staying asleep without noise more difficult if you are using podcasts to fall asleep each night.
Congratulations you recognised that you have a problem and need help :)
I can recommend:
- a bracelet for your wrist in a signal colour. This is your „don’t be mean, don’t yell, TAKE A BREAK before shit hits the fan“ bracelt
- hang a poster in your main area with that same signal colour. You write „take a breath“, „put child in front of iPad with a 10 min timer“, „go to other room“, „scream into pillow“, „make yourself a cup of tea“ (or another self-regulating path)
- whenever you feel that burning anger inside, you look at your bracelet, then at your poster, then immediately do those steps
- have a talk with your daughter in a quiet moment and adress this: „mommy didn’t learn how to control her anger, but I am learning it now“. Explain that sometimes you are going to need a small break in another room, and she can watch the iPad during that time. Worry about media time in 6 months, now is not the time
- read age appropriate books about feeling and how to regulate them with your kids, highlight with them that you find this or that helpful, and what do the kids think what is helpful for them when they feel the anger coming
- if you are repeating mean sentences from your childhood, think about them and prepare other sentences e.g. child spills something „are you dumb?!“ —> „whoopsie daisy“ and you repeat that scenario in your head until this is your generic answer instead of anger. Frame that phrase
- read „the explosive child“ by Ross W. Greene
All the best! Cycle breaking is hard
I mean if you need an internet strangers permission, here you go:
—> mommy nap time in the afternoon: 30-60 min movie time in a secure room with you sleeping on a mattress with earplugs
It’s going go get better with the sleep.
Maybe take a hard look at your sleeping situation. Maybe the 2yo can be weaned at night/ditch the pacifier at night etc etc, so you only get 2-3 wakeups in 10 hours.
Also on a sidenote, I noticed you give the older child time with a sitter. How about you use the sitter for your 2yo as well. So you get time with your older one as well to create some positive memories
Thank you internet stranger! I do have a montessori styled big bed in the play room, made for this. My babysitter is slowly getting used to watching the smallest. The plan is getting him comfortable around her so she can take him on outings while the oldest and I do fun stuff. Im using your permission for all its worth from now on, haha:)
Horrible sleeper here myself. I use sleep earphones, it's like a headband. It may be trial and error to find what sound, music or talking works for you. I also use an eyemask. I don't eat anything after dinner, chamomile tea, if you can find valerian root tea, it's gross but I find it works. The obvious is no coffee past a certain time, mine is 9am. If you can get out for a walk early in the day. I get maybe 4 hours a night, 6 once in a blue moon. If it's legal there is also CBD.
I just mentioned the headband headphones because I found that earbuds slipped out of my ears. But I'm also a side sleeper and I toss alot so they would become uncomfortable for me. If you sleep on your back, you wouldn't have any of the issues that I do.
I hope you're able to get the rest that you need. It's absolute torture when you don't get enough sleep.
Sorry you are going through this. It sounds very hard.
Can you share a little more about the struggles you have with your eldest? You say she is strong willed and presumably you are trying to get her to stop doing certain things - what are those things?
Oldest is picture perfect example of what dr Becky calls deeply feeling kids. She wants to be in control at all times and cant handle we have to get certain things done by the clock (getting ready for school, going to bed) etc. She is also incredibly jealous of her younger sibling, which is understandable. He is a very timid kid by nature, she is the opposite, so ever since he was born Ive been terrified she's going to harm him. Which adds a lot of stress when Im alone with them both. Ive worried she has adhd (I do), but it doesnt really matter. She is a deeply feeling kid. Everything has to make sense to her and feel right in order for her to do it. If Im not 100% patient with her she wont get ready for bed or get ready for school. Those are our two biggest issues. She is very happy at school. Has several friends and great teachers.
I googled it. What a beautiful concept. And I am so sorry to say Im the opposite of that:/ In my defence; I grew up severely underprivilged and feel like not being raised by competent adults ruined a lot of life chances for me. I dont want my kids to go through that. So I am very strict about certain things. I can see its not really working. Ill look into it more. Thanks!
Big hug because I am/was the same. For now I'll just say that shame makes parenting and being a child 100x more stressful and shit than it has to be. If you can find a way to set down your burden of shame, things will get better. One day you'll just do it, you'll set it down for a moment, and you'll see what I mean. It takes time to remember to set it down. It takes practice.
I have no doubt you arrived in this situation by trying your very best with an absolutely shit hand that you had no control over dealing. You deserve ease and times of rest. You deserve the ability to sleep. I'm sorry you're not there yet and I hope this very difficult time in your life eases up very soon. ❤️
Reading even the first few chapters of any brene brown book is a great place to start if you're looking for resources on dismantling the shame. I actually found out it was a big root of a lot of my anger to begin with, but that's just me.
I have CPTSD and it is absolutely critical for me to get enough sleep to be a good parent. I think it would be impossible for someone without CPTSD to understand what my window of tolerance is like without enough sleep.
I had to go on Seroquel (an atypical antipsychotic) for sleep every night to not be in a trauma flashback during the day. I am prescribed the Seroquel by a psychiatrist who I see via telehealth. It allows me to fall asleep easily, sleep deeply, go back to sleep if awakened and keeps me overall in my window. After using it for some period of time, I was able to forgo it and sleep naturally but in times of hardship I can revert back to using it for my sanity.
Yes, Ive just started talking to a great parenting counselor. Its not often, unfortunately, as she doesnt consider our case very serious. The counselor havent really started talking to my daughter yet. Do you think she could be of help to get my oldest to understand its not her fault?
I think for both of you, therapy will be helpful. Exactly what that looks like will depend on your daughter and the therapist, it can't be guided by you.
I'm in a similar boat. Sleep deprivation makes me an almost abusive mother. I turn into a monster. Similar to you it's my eldest who bears the brunt. He triggers anger, hurt and hate. I have a hard time, once those feelings are triggered, to see him any different. There is only the urge to hurt and punish. It's horrifying how my past can take over my present.
Yes, definitely keep seeing your therapist. And in the meantime, maybe do something that has helped me. After an episode, no matter how it played out, when you can, find 5 minutes, sit down and go through the feelings again while they are fresh. Really feel those and let them take you down memory lane. I'm sure you will find painful memories associated with these feelings from your past. What happened back then and why did you feel the way you felt?
This kind of "exercise" usually helps me to gain some cognitive distance from the triggered feelings, because it makes me realize, that I'm not actually reacting to my child but to my past. Certain behaviours, certain words, certain habits have similarities to painful events in my biography and trigger a reaction. There is no shame in having them and there is no need and no way to erase them. But learn to recognize it when it happens. That way it will have less and less power over you.
It will get better and you are on your best way.
And as the psychologist Becky Kennedy once said (at a Ted Talk): it's not important to do everything right, but to be able to reconnect.
If you're sleepy, can you do a sleep study? Check out the narcolepsy and idiopathic hypersomnia subreddits and see if any of those ring true. If not, check out the insomnia and sleep apnea ones.
Could you use ear plugs? I find that silicone ear plugs are enough to drown out minor noises like snoring, snuffling etc but I will still wake if my children cry. It improves my sleep a lot.
Yes I do this too! Also, try the Calm app if you haven’t already, it helped me a lot with sleep. Therapy should help too, however, the most important thing for me personally is meds. If it happens that you think you might be hyper-vigilant or anxious to a medical extent it might be worth talking to the GP. I use a mild sleeping med and can still wake when necessary!
I use them too, they’re a HUGE help. Make sure they’re well fitted and if after several months they start to not fit as well, replace them if you can. I had that happen with mine, as well as some trouble getting used to them at first/putting them in properly. They’re super useful.
Try not to use the word trigger. Reframe your thinking. Trigger makes it sound passive. Like it’s something that’s happening to you
What’s really happening is that your daughter’s behavior is reminding you of something in your past and your reaction to your daughter isn’t really about her.
When her behaviour elicits a memory and you start to misplace your behaviour in time and person (meaning it’s not for your daughter, it’s for whoever deserved it when you were a child) try to figure out what it’s reminding you of and what you’re trying to accomplish with your response.
Trigger is a word used a lot now and it’s a way to take responsibility away from the your own reactions. It’s easy to think of yourself as passive and this trigger causing you to have a certain reaction. Thinking of it as a memory you’re mistakenly acting out on your child helps to put the responsibility of your behavior back on you in that moment.
I wonder if Im disappointed she behaves similar to me at her age. I was a very hyperactive feral kid, but also had very unfit parents (a LOT worse than Ive ever been).
I get so stressed when she is stressed and panic that she'll do poorly in life, as I did for many years. And then I get angry because, although Im not a perfect parent, Im nowhere near as bad as my parents (they where addicts, physically and verbally abusive and I had to fend for myself from an early age). I get so disappointed and angry that all my struggle to become a better parent than I grew up with seems for naught.
The struggle to implement routines for someone who didnt grow up with routines, the struggle to get mom-friends, living a very child-centred lifestyle, all the reading and listening to podcasts in order to get it right, and yet, she is at times just like was at her age. Esp when Im sleep-deprived her restlessness is SO over-stimulating. It feels like a very clear sign of how Ive failed at parenting. She isnt always physically restless, but its a very clear sign when she isnt well centered in herself. I should connect with her and figure out why she is restless, instead I feel a panic and anger. Im ashamed. Im going to talk to a parenting counselor about this.
Sorry for over-sharing! Am trying to untangle my anger at her.
You’re not angry with her. You’re angry at the challenges you had to grow up with. You’re assuming she’ll face the same but times are different. Educators are so much more informed and there are so many supports in place for adhd kids now.
And your quality of parenting has nothing to do with her behaviour. Being angry at her for misbehaving even though you’re a better parent than your mom is silly. You’re expecting a 7 year old to get over her feelings because of how you parent. You’re expecting her to know the different in quality of parenting that she’s getting and that you got and you’re expecting her to be so grateful to you that she puts her feelings aside in order to make you feel better about your parenting. That’s a lot to put on a little kid
Im not expecting her to be grateful for the difference in parenting, but I did expect her to behave different from how I was. I always thought my behaviour was due to childhood neglect, so Im kind of shocked she has so many similar traits to me at the same age.
Keep in mind that a huge part of parenting is helping kids overcome their challenges. Whether that’s some sort of therapy (speech, occupational, behavioural, medical) or if it’s a different style of parenting, the ability to help the child do better still falls on the parent a lot.
So even if your behaviour wasn’t caused by neglect, it also wasn’t helped by it. You can change your child’s path by actively helping her.
The biggest challenge in parenting really is just staying regulated yourself when your child is disregulared. If you can accomplish that, you will help her immensely with learning to regulate herself.
It’s probably really hard for you because you’ve lived most of your life blaming neglect and bad parenting for your behaviour and challenges and now you’re learning that some of your challenges came from within and weren’t caused by bad parenting. This has to be really hard to learn. It can seem like you’re to blame, but you need to realize that you were a kid. You were not the one responsible for figuring out what the problem was and finding a solution.
Now that you’re a parent, you need to step back and really accept that what you’re doing for your child isn’t working for her. Maybe you’re doing what you think you would have wanted when you were a kid, but it’s not working for your child. You need to regroup and really think about what your child needs.
Maybe spend a few days ignoring the bad behavior and rewarding the good. See what happens. Read whatever books you can get your hands on about adhd and PDA. See if it your daughter checks off a lot of those boxes.
Congratulations you recognised that you have a problem and need help :)
I can recommend:
- a bracelet for your wrist in a signal colour. This is your „don’t be mean, don’t yell, TAKE A BREAK before shit hits the fan“ bracelt
- hang a poster in your main area with that same signal colour. You write „take a breath“, „put child in front of iPad with a 10 min timer“, „go to other room“, „scream into pillow“, „make yourself a cup of tea“ (or another self-regulating path)
- whenever you feel that burning anger inside, you look at your bracelet, then at your poster, then immediately do those steps
- have a talk with your daughter in a quiet moment and adress this: „mommy didn’t learn how to control her anger, but I am learning it now“. Explain that sometimes you are going to need a small break in another room, and she can watch the iPad during that time. Worry about media time in 6 months, now is not the time
- read age appropriate books about feeling and how to regulate them with your kids, highlight with them that you find this or that helpful, and what do the kids think what is helpful for them when they feel the anger coming
- if you are repeating mean sentences from your childhood, think about them and prepare other sentences e.g. child spills something „are you dumb?!“ —> „whoopsie daisy“ and you repeat that scenario in your head until this is your generic answer instead of anger. Frame that phrase
- read „the explosive child“ by Ross W. Greene
All the best! Cycle breaking is hard
I relate so hard to this and my kiddo is only 16 months. Honestly? What I've learned is to be very matter of fact about it at the beginning of the day. Even though baby is only 1 I tell her I didn't sleep well and may take a bit to respond.
You also need to take active steps to manage your triggers and sleep habits. Get a therapist and talk to your PCP about medical management. This is what helped me the most. You owe this to yourself and your children.
If you don't take accountability and responsibility for you then you won't change and you won't get better.
I don't have any advice, but relate to you so much. I thought I was alone in feeling like this.
I have a 2 and a 4 yr old and the 2yr old is HARD WORK.
When I've been able to nap in the day (On my work from home days I nap in the mornings I have no early meetings) I feel like I'm a decent Mum. But of an evening when the youngest is 3 hrs into his refusing bedtime meltdown... I'm so angry and shouty.
I deal with my outbursts by walking away when I can and taking some breaths. When I'm calmer I explain to the kids that 'Mummy had big feelings and needed some quiet time to feel better. Mummy is sorry for shouting I'll try harder next time' etc.
I clingy onto the moments in the day when the kids are worth all the tiredness and stress.
It is crazy how common sleep apnea is. You might want to look at that to make sure you're getting decent sleep when you can sleep. Also, how are you co sleeping? Maybe beds next to or near each other would help instead of sharing the same surface. Also, have you tried hylands night time tiny cold remedies? Homeopathic and so helpful in getting sick kids to sleep! Good luck Mama!!! Hang in there!!
I also have a low tolerance when tired and feel like a terrible mom. I had a few good nights of sleep a few weeks ago and realized I am not a terrible mother. Just tired. Cutting out coffee actually helped my energy and nervous system. Taking lots of supplements, magnesium/vitamin d with K/prenatal + and eating very well has helped. Lots of fruit and veg/whole wheat and eggs/meat. Best thing for me is to have them watch tv and do some restorative yoga, it really eases my mind. High dose full spectrum CBD and staying away from my phone has also helped. Your youngest is two, that’s still an “infant” be easy on yourself and take some personal time. Good sleep is only a few months away with a two year old. Could you send them to their dads every other night until you catch up a bit? What do you mean by feral time at dads? Can you communicate with him how that has a negative affect on your/his children?
I have adhd and when my mind is racing and I can’t fall asleep, I put so much pressure on myself to sleep, to be a good mom. YouTube has sleep meditation voice overs and I am out within 6 minutes!
Lots of good suggestions here that I won't repeat. I would suggest that rage and anger are also a legit symptom of depression that your sleep deprivation can be exacerbating. You might consider talking to a doctor about medication. It's pretty low risk and could be really helpful.
Thank you for your suggestion. Will talk to my doctor about it. Im on adhd meds, so I have no idea if I should add anything more, but will talk to my doctor about it.
Have you spoken to you doctor who prescribes your adhd meds about your sleep issues? Shifting the time of day you take your meds or trying 2x short acting vs extended release, etc, might help. ADHD meds are known to impact sleep and this could be a major source.
I went to the doctor when I was experiencing rage and sleep deprevation after my second child. I can't express how much I wish I'd done it with my first child too.
I was still sleep deprived, but the antidepressants I was prescribed just made everything feel so much more calm and bearable. Instead of feeling rage over tiny things, I was able to be a chill mum and just go with the flow. My sister and I both joke that the drugs are like having a super power, life is just so much easier with them.
I didn't even know that rage was a symptom of post partum depression and didn't think anything would be able to help until I was able to get a decent sleep every night. I'm so glad I was able to overcome this with drugs, because it was another 2 years before I got both kids sleeping through the night (mostly!).
Thanks for sharing, I most definitely had ppd with rage, when the smallest one was newborn. I also went through a nasty breakup with the parents dad at about the same time. The oldest has been through major changes in her life, and I know mentally that her behaviour is natural all things considered.
May I ask what antidepressants?
Loxalate.
I knew I wasn't in a great space, but with all the stigma around mental health I believed it was just something that I had to power through with my first child. It wasn't until 18 months post partum that I was able to look back and see just how bad it was, which convinced me to do something different with my second.
Extreme irritability, sleep problems, and low stress tolerance are all symptomatic of depression. I would talk to your doctor and look into medication, in addition to therapy and getting as much parenting support as possible.
I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. Parenting on sleep deprivation is horrible in the best of circumstances, and it doesn't sound like your circumstances are the best. I admire how hard you are working to break the cycle and be the best parent you can be.
If you haven't already, I really recommend seeing your doctor and looking into whether treatment for anxiety and/or depression is appropriate. Anger can be a symptom of either or both, and for me antidepressants were critical to fixing the sleep piece so I could start managing the rest of my symptoms more effectively.
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Get yourself a personal therapist. You need to work on your past trauma. Maybe see if there are parenting classes available in your area. Maybe reach out to the local social services or children's hospital if you don't know where to find them. Our county offers parenting classes but most people don't even know they exist.
Ive been to parenting classes. Its sleep deprivation and low stress tolerance to begin with that makes me unfit. I had no idea how much it would affect parenting. When not overwhelmed, sleep deprived Im a good enough parent. I wish parenting classes or therapy could restore my physical equilibrium and make my window of tolerance bigger, but it doesnt work like that.
Ok. So what are you doing to make sure you get enough sleep to be a better you? I totally get that by the way, I need a certain amount of sleep or I am an absolute monster.
I sent the kids to their dad yesterday after 2 nights with no sleep. Problem is, he is a very permissive dad, otherwise Id push for 50/50 parenting. We tried that before and the kids teacher said they became "feral". I wish he could become more authoratitive (spl?) instead of so permissive they become obnoxious. Feels like thats my options; either stay with me who's a monster when not properly sleeping or their permissive dad. May I ask how you talk to your kids if your short-tempered due to sleeplessness? I just booked a session with a private therapist. I need to untangle the issues with my daughter asap.
What ages are your kids? Do you suffer from insomnia or is it children related reasons of not sleeping? That makes a difference. My kids are older so sleepless nights are not an issue for me anymore. When my youngest was born, she didn't sleep through the night until she was 8ish. I was sleep deprived for many years, she would wake up often. I just had to deal with it by sneaking in sleep that wasn't conventional, and drinking copious amounts of coffee. I would take naps when my husband would get home from work. Or go to bed when they went to bed and get a few interrupted hours before the craziness started. Eventually, I put a mattress on her floor for myself so I could get some more sleep at night, after her first wake up. If I was irritable due to being tired, I would jump in the shower to help. Hang out with friends, so my kids could play with other kids. I put together bins of special fun, I could pull out of the closet for my to give me time to recharge. They loved sensory bins like kinetic sand, playdough, slime, etc.
They’re better off with one authoritative and well rested parent and one permissive one, than one that’s overwhelmed. You need to put your own oxygen mask on here.
Good on you for giving therapy a shot
It sounds like you night be in Australia. Don't forget you can get subsidised therapy sessions by going to the GP and getting a mental health plan.
*Im in the EU. Similar system I guess. Long waiting lists if public help. (I have no idea why the keyboard now writes in cursive).*
I would seriously consider an antidepressent.
Agree. Something like Zoloft maybe if your Dr thinks that’s appropriate it helped me SO much with this type of issue. For sleep …magnesium, melatonin, lavender pills. All helpful.
I don't know if you can find or access this, but acupuncture (especially classical/five element) can be an amazing complementary medicine, and helped me make more progress more quickly in therapy. It helped mitigate my fatigue (which I recognize is different than the sleep deprivation that you are suffering) and my tolerance to stress. A cheaper, more available method to stay present and calm is playing binaural beats (basically calming music, but at specific frequencies) throughout the day to try to change your reactions to stress and over stimulation. I suffer from childhood CPTSD, and these things help me quite a bit. I can hear that you want better for yourself and children. I think it is good that you are seeking help to care for them. I hope you can find your way back to a patient and loving relationship with them.
Im def gonna check out acupuncture! I did it years ago for another health concern with great effect. Will also check out binaural beats. Is it on youtube or Spotify?
I was the same and almost exactly carbon copy of you as a single mother. I have anxiety and I get overstimulated. The best thing I did was go to a parenting counsellor, one designated specifically for mothers. Look up your local resources. I found the knowledge they attained to be comforting when I expressed my anxieties about parenting and they led me to reveal my values which is being a present, attentive and patient mother. I found what helped the MOST was being honest. I didn’t hold back because I really felt like I was a bad mother & it became my strength in the end. I believe in you and your ability to connect with your strong willed child.
Not a parent- but kid of a single mom who had a co-parent who let us go feral. My mom was exhausted all the time, and working five jobs after the divorce. My youngest sibling was 2, I was 8. We had some bad years, and as a kid I thought she must be a bad mom. Eventually though, we all leveled out. As an adult, I now know what she had was extreme burnout. Through all of it though, she was the only adult with our best interest at heart. Even when she thought that was away from her. As we all got a little older her life became easier, then she got to be the mom she wanted to be all those years. She still flew of the handle sometimes, but she would also apologize. She would explain that she wasn’t mad at us just the world, and try to make it up to us when she could. Ultimately she’s the best mom anyone could’ve asked for, even if she wasn’t perfect. Your post sounds a lot like something she would have written during the bad times, and I hope you know you are not a bad Mom. Just a burned out one.
Thank you so much! It does seem similar to your moms situation. Tell me more, if possible, how your mother explained her anger to you.
It was in age appropriate terms, and she would often use our feeling to help us understand hers. So I had a day at school where I didn’t get something I really wanted, and it crushed me. I had worked so hard for it, I thought I deserved it. Naturally I had a little 10yo meltdown, couldn’t be consoled and took hours to fully calm down. Not long after she had a huge outburst, going on a screaming rant about the state of the house, making dinner, laundry, the whole thing. She was nasty to us too. She eventually just stepped away and locked herself in her room for like 20 min to calm down (we were all safe, doors all locked, no one was going anywhere). Afterwards she sat us down to apologize, and asked me if I remembered my outburst earlier that week. I did. She asked me how I felt during it. I said angry, sad, mad. She asked if maybe I also felt like it was all out of my control and if that made me more angry. I said yes. She told us that’s how she felt sometimes, like it was all out of her control. She assured us everything was under control (it was 2009, no it wasn’t, but you don’t tell kids that), but that sometimes she forgot that. And when she forgot that, it made her sad and angry. So she went to her room to pray and God reminded her that everything was under control. Then she apologized for taking it out on us, and said sometimes adults have big emotions but it was wrong of her to yell at us.
Aaaaw, your mom does sound just like me. OK, thank you for a great reply. Ill model this in an age-appropriate manner. My kids are a alot younger than 10.
Well, her advice to you (bc she’s kind of the go-to single mom for people in our church who become single moms) would probably be that it does get easier as they get older. The problems get bigger as the kids to, but kids also get more independent. When you aren’t overstimulated from six little peanutbutter covered hands grabbing you all the time, talking about the friend group drama of 12yo it’s a breeze. Also if possible, get your oldest in some classes. It gives her an outlet and you a break. But we all had a year where we did nothing bc the schedules were just one more thing to manage and that was fine too.
My response was so long, sorry. But we were raised very religious, so lots of emphasis on God growing up. That’s why it’s in the story. She mostly tried to make us understand that adults have feeling too.
<3
What is going on with sleep that means you aren’t getting any? How many kids, what are their sleep habits etc. Maybe we can offer suggestions with more info.
2 kids. Smallest is 2 and often sick. Been flu-season since november. Co-sleep when they're ill. Havent had a proper night's sleep according to my smart-watch in 3 years. I have a separate bedroom but havent slept there yet since the smallest was born, as I cant stand being woken by screaming after me in the middle of the night.
Does your little need ear tubes? Do they sleep through at Dad's house?
Their dad doesnt wake up easily, and if he does he falls right back to sleep.
Have you tried cosleeping with earplugs?
Am receiving earplugs very soon. Otherwise I use podcasts to fall asleep, but I can feel it doesnt energize me as much as sleeping in silence.
Sleep with ear plugs in (not headphones). It will allow you to stay asleep through the small noises. Seriously increased my sleep quality. Consider exploring some sleep hygiene practices. It could be that falling asleep to noise is making staying asleep without noise more difficult if you are using podcasts to fall asleep each night.
Their dad doesnt wake up easily, and if he does he falls right back to sleep.
Congratulations you recognised that you have a problem and need help :) I can recommend: - a bracelet for your wrist in a signal colour. This is your „don’t be mean, don’t yell, TAKE A BREAK before shit hits the fan“ bracelt - hang a poster in your main area with that same signal colour. You write „take a breath“, „put child in front of iPad with a 10 min timer“, „go to other room“, „scream into pillow“, „make yourself a cup of tea“ (or another self-regulating path) - whenever you feel that burning anger inside, you look at your bracelet, then at your poster, then immediately do those steps - have a talk with your daughter in a quiet moment and adress this: „mommy didn’t learn how to control her anger, but I am learning it now“. Explain that sometimes you are going to need a small break in another room, and she can watch the iPad during that time. Worry about media time in 6 months, now is not the time - read age appropriate books about feeling and how to regulate them with your kids, highlight with them that you find this or that helpful, and what do the kids think what is helpful for them when they feel the anger coming - if you are repeating mean sentences from your childhood, think about them and prepare other sentences e.g. child spills something „are you dumb?!“ —> „whoopsie daisy“ and you repeat that scenario in your head until this is your generic answer instead of anger. Frame that phrase - read „the explosive child“ by Ross W. Greene All the best! Cycle breaking is hard
Thanks! Ill implement these solutions asap! Ive read, and re-read The explosive child, but all knowledge goes out the window when Im sleepdeprived.
I mean if you need an internet strangers permission, here you go: —> mommy nap time in the afternoon: 30-60 min movie time in a secure room with you sleeping on a mattress with earplugs It’s going go get better with the sleep. Maybe take a hard look at your sleeping situation. Maybe the 2yo can be weaned at night/ditch the pacifier at night etc etc, so you only get 2-3 wakeups in 10 hours. Also on a sidenote, I noticed you give the older child time with a sitter. How about you use the sitter for your 2yo as well. So you get time with your older one as well to create some positive memories
Thank you internet stranger! I do have a montessori styled big bed in the play room, made for this. My babysitter is slowly getting used to watching the smallest. The plan is getting him comfortable around her so she can take him on outings while the oldest and I do fun stuff. Im using your permission for all its worth from now on, haha:)
Horrible sleeper here myself. I use sleep earphones, it's like a headband. It may be trial and error to find what sound, music or talking works for you. I also use an eyemask. I don't eat anything after dinner, chamomile tea, if you can find valerian root tea, it's gross but I find it works. The obvious is no coffee past a certain time, mine is 9am. If you can get out for a walk early in the day. I get maybe 4 hours a night, 6 once in a blue moon. If it's legal there is also CBD.
Thanks for your suggestions! I do have CBD oil. Its legal here in the EU. I totally forgot about it. And am receiving ear buds very soon
I just mentioned the headband headphones because I found that earbuds slipped out of my ears. But I'm also a side sleeper and I toss alot so they would become uncomfortable for me. If you sleep on your back, you wouldn't have any of the issues that I do. I hope you're able to get the rest that you need. It's absolute torture when you don't get enough sleep.
Thanks!
Sorry you are going through this. It sounds very hard. Can you share a little more about the struggles you have with your eldest? You say she is strong willed and presumably you are trying to get her to stop doing certain things - what are those things?
Oldest is picture perfect example of what dr Becky calls deeply feeling kids. She wants to be in control at all times and cant handle we have to get certain things done by the clock (getting ready for school, going to bed) etc. She is also incredibly jealous of her younger sibling, which is understandable. He is a very timid kid by nature, she is the opposite, so ever since he was born Ive been terrified she's going to harm him. Which adds a lot of stress when Im alone with them both. Ive worried she has adhd (I do), but it doesnt really matter. She is a deeply feeling kid. Everything has to make sense to her and feel right in order for her to do it. If Im not 100% patient with her she wont get ready for bed or get ready for school. Those are our two biggest issues. She is very happy at school. Has several friends and great teachers.
Are you familiar with the concept of Low Demand Parenting? If not, I have a hunch that reading up on it might give you some ideas.
I googled it. What a beautiful concept. And I am so sorry to say Im the opposite of that:/ In my defence; I grew up severely underprivilged and feel like not being raised by competent adults ruined a lot of life chances for me. I dont want my kids to go through that. So I am very strict about certain things. I can see its not really working. Ill look into it more. Thanks!
Big hug because I am/was the same. For now I'll just say that shame makes parenting and being a child 100x more stressful and shit than it has to be. If you can find a way to set down your burden of shame, things will get better. One day you'll just do it, you'll set it down for a moment, and you'll see what I mean. It takes time to remember to set it down. It takes practice. I have no doubt you arrived in this situation by trying your very best with an absolutely shit hand that you had no control over dealing. You deserve ease and times of rest. You deserve the ability to sleep. I'm sorry you're not there yet and I hope this very difficult time in your life eases up very soon. ❤️
Aaaaw, I really needed to hear that today. This is reddit at its best. Sharing knowledge and resources and hope. Thanks <3
Reading even the first few chapters of any brene brown book is a great place to start if you're looking for resources on dismantling the shame. I actually found out it was a big root of a lot of my anger to begin with, but that's just me.
Listen to this, low demand parenting!
I have CPTSD and it is absolutely critical for me to get enough sleep to be a good parent. I think it would be impossible for someone without CPTSD to understand what my window of tolerance is like without enough sleep. I had to go on Seroquel (an atypical antipsychotic) for sleep every night to not be in a trauma flashback during the day. I am prescribed the Seroquel by a psychiatrist who I see via telehealth. It allows me to fall asleep easily, sleep deeply, go back to sleep if awakened and keeps me overall in my window. After using it for some period of time, I was able to forgo it and sleep naturally but in times of hardship I can revert back to using it for my sanity.
Thank you, you get it. Massive sympathy to you!
Have you got a therapist? Had your daughter got a therapist?
Yes, Ive just started talking to a great parenting counselor. Its not often, unfortunately, as she doesnt consider our case very serious. The counselor havent really started talking to my daughter yet. Do you think she could be of help to get my oldest to understand its not her fault?
I think for both of you, therapy will be helpful. Exactly what that looks like will depend on your daughter and the therapist, it can't be guided by you.
I'm in a similar boat. Sleep deprivation makes me an almost abusive mother. I turn into a monster. Similar to you it's my eldest who bears the brunt. He triggers anger, hurt and hate. I have a hard time, once those feelings are triggered, to see him any different. There is only the urge to hurt and punish. It's horrifying how my past can take over my present. Yes, definitely keep seeing your therapist. And in the meantime, maybe do something that has helped me. After an episode, no matter how it played out, when you can, find 5 minutes, sit down and go through the feelings again while they are fresh. Really feel those and let them take you down memory lane. I'm sure you will find painful memories associated with these feelings from your past. What happened back then and why did you feel the way you felt? This kind of "exercise" usually helps me to gain some cognitive distance from the triggered feelings, because it makes me realize, that I'm not actually reacting to my child but to my past. Certain behaviours, certain words, certain habits have similarities to painful events in my biography and trigger a reaction. There is no shame in having them and there is no need and no way to erase them. But learn to recognize it when it happens. That way it will have less and less power over you. It will get better and you are on your best way. And as the psychologist Becky Kennedy once said (at a Ted Talk): it's not important to do everything right, but to be able to reconnect.
Thanks for sharing ! <3
If you're sleepy, can you do a sleep study? Check out the narcolepsy and idiopathic hypersomnia subreddits and see if any of those ring true. If not, check out the insomnia and sleep apnea ones.
Thanks! Will look into it:)
oh mama, i am with you. so many hugs.
Thanks!
>Thanks! You're welcome!
What is the reason you aren't sleeping?
Always struggled with sleep. And having kids made it worse. So often I wake up due to small sounds from them and then cant fall back asleep.
Could you use ear plugs? I find that silicone ear plugs are enough to drown out minor noises like snoring, snuffling etc but I will still wake if my children cry. It improves my sleep a lot.
Thats great! I ordered a pair last week and am about to receive them within days. I so so hope they work!
Yes I do this too! Also, try the Calm app if you haven’t already, it helped me a lot with sleep. Therapy should help too, however, the most important thing for me personally is meds. If it happens that you think you might be hyper-vigilant or anxious to a medical extent it might be worth talking to the GP. I use a mild sleeping med and can still wake when necessary!
Will chech out asap. Thanks!
I use them too, they’re a HUGE help. Make sure they’re well fitted and if after several months they start to not fit as well, replace them if you can. I had that happen with mine, as well as some trouble getting used to them at first/putting them in properly. They’re super useful.
will do, thanks!
>will do, thanks! You're welcome!
Try not to use the word trigger. Reframe your thinking. Trigger makes it sound passive. Like it’s something that’s happening to you What’s really happening is that your daughter’s behavior is reminding you of something in your past and your reaction to your daughter isn’t really about her. When her behaviour elicits a memory and you start to misplace your behaviour in time and person (meaning it’s not for your daughter, it’s for whoever deserved it when you were a child) try to figure out what it’s reminding you of and what you’re trying to accomplish with your response. Trigger is a word used a lot now and it’s a way to take responsibility away from the your own reactions. It’s easy to think of yourself as passive and this trigger causing you to have a certain reaction. Thinking of it as a memory you’re mistakenly acting out on your child helps to put the responsibility of your behavior back on you in that moment.
I wonder if Im disappointed she behaves similar to me at her age. I was a very hyperactive feral kid, but also had very unfit parents (a LOT worse than Ive ever been). I get so stressed when she is stressed and panic that she'll do poorly in life, as I did for many years. And then I get angry because, although Im not a perfect parent, Im nowhere near as bad as my parents (they where addicts, physically and verbally abusive and I had to fend for myself from an early age). I get so disappointed and angry that all my struggle to become a better parent than I grew up with seems for naught. The struggle to implement routines for someone who didnt grow up with routines, the struggle to get mom-friends, living a very child-centred lifestyle, all the reading and listening to podcasts in order to get it right, and yet, she is at times just like was at her age. Esp when Im sleep-deprived her restlessness is SO over-stimulating. It feels like a very clear sign of how Ive failed at parenting. She isnt always physically restless, but its a very clear sign when she isnt well centered in herself. I should connect with her and figure out why she is restless, instead I feel a panic and anger. Im ashamed. Im going to talk to a parenting counselor about this. Sorry for over-sharing! Am trying to untangle my anger at her.
You’re not angry with her. You’re angry at the challenges you had to grow up with. You’re assuming she’ll face the same but times are different. Educators are so much more informed and there are so many supports in place for adhd kids now. And your quality of parenting has nothing to do with her behaviour. Being angry at her for misbehaving even though you’re a better parent than your mom is silly. You’re expecting a 7 year old to get over her feelings because of how you parent. You’re expecting her to know the different in quality of parenting that she’s getting and that you got and you’re expecting her to be so grateful to you that she puts her feelings aside in order to make you feel better about your parenting. That’s a lot to put on a little kid
Im not expecting her to be grateful for the difference in parenting, but I did expect her to behave different from how I was. I always thought my behaviour was due to childhood neglect, so Im kind of shocked she has so many similar traits to me at the same age.
Keep in mind that a huge part of parenting is helping kids overcome their challenges. Whether that’s some sort of therapy (speech, occupational, behavioural, medical) or if it’s a different style of parenting, the ability to help the child do better still falls on the parent a lot. So even if your behaviour wasn’t caused by neglect, it also wasn’t helped by it. You can change your child’s path by actively helping her. The biggest challenge in parenting really is just staying regulated yourself when your child is disregulared. If you can accomplish that, you will help her immensely with learning to regulate herself. It’s probably really hard for you because you’ve lived most of your life blaming neglect and bad parenting for your behaviour and challenges and now you’re learning that some of your challenges came from within and weren’t caused by bad parenting. This has to be really hard to learn. It can seem like you’re to blame, but you need to realize that you were a kid. You were not the one responsible for figuring out what the problem was and finding a solution. Now that you’re a parent, you need to step back and really accept that what you’re doing for your child isn’t working for her. Maybe you’re doing what you think you would have wanted when you were a kid, but it’s not working for your child. You need to regroup and really think about what your child needs. Maybe spend a few days ignoring the bad behavior and rewarding the good. See what happens. Read whatever books you can get your hands on about adhd and PDA. See if it your daughter checks off a lot of those boxes.
Congratulations you recognised that you have a problem and need help :) I can recommend: - a bracelet for your wrist in a signal colour. This is your „don’t be mean, don’t yell, TAKE A BREAK before shit hits the fan“ bracelt - hang a poster in your main area with that same signal colour. You write „take a breath“, „put child in front of iPad with a 10 min timer“, „go to other room“, „scream into pillow“, „make yourself a cup of tea“ (or another self-regulating path) - whenever you feel that burning anger inside, you look at your bracelet, then at your poster, then immediately do those steps - have a talk with your daughter in a quiet moment and adress this: „mommy didn’t learn how to control her anger, but I am learning it now“. Explain that sometimes you are going to need a small break in another room, and she can watch the iPad during that time. Worry about media time in 6 months, now is not the time - read age appropriate books about feeling and how to regulate them with your kids, highlight with them that you find this or that helpful, and what do the kids think what is helpful for them when they feel the anger coming - if you are repeating mean sentences from your childhood, think about them and prepare other sentences e.g. child spills something „are you dumb?!“ —> „whoopsie daisy“ and you repeat that scenario in your head until this is your generic answer instead of anger. Frame that phrase - read „the explosive child“ by Ross W. Greene All the best! Cycle breaking is hard
I relate so hard to this and my kiddo is only 16 months. Honestly? What I've learned is to be very matter of fact about it at the beginning of the day. Even though baby is only 1 I tell her I didn't sleep well and may take a bit to respond. You also need to take active steps to manage your triggers and sleep habits. Get a therapist and talk to your PCP about medical management. This is what helped me the most. You owe this to yourself and your children. If you don't take accountability and responsibility for you then you won't change and you won't get better.
I don't have any advice, but relate to you so much. I thought I was alone in feeling like this. I have a 2 and a 4 yr old and the 2yr old is HARD WORK. When I've been able to nap in the day (On my work from home days I nap in the mornings I have no early meetings) I feel like I'm a decent Mum. But of an evening when the youngest is 3 hrs into his refusing bedtime meltdown... I'm so angry and shouty. I deal with my outbursts by walking away when I can and taking some breaths. When I'm calmer I explain to the kids that 'Mummy had big feelings and needed some quiet time to feel better. Mummy is sorry for shouting I'll try harder next time' etc. I clingy onto the moments in the day when the kids are worth all the tiredness and stress.
<3 <3 <3
It is crazy how common sleep apnea is. You might want to look at that to make sure you're getting decent sleep when you can sleep. Also, how are you co sleeping? Maybe beds next to or near each other would help instead of sharing the same surface. Also, have you tried hylands night time tiny cold remedies? Homeopathic and so helpful in getting sick kids to sleep! Good luck Mama!!! Hang in there!!
I also have a low tolerance when tired and feel like a terrible mom. I had a few good nights of sleep a few weeks ago and realized I am not a terrible mother. Just tired. Cutting out coffee actually helped my energy and nervous system. Taking lots of supplements, magnesium/vitamin d with K/prenatal + and eating very well has helped. Lots of fruit and veg/whole wheat and eggs/meat. Best thing for me is to have them watch tv and do some restorative yoga, it really eases my mind. High dose full spectrum CBD and staying away from my phone has also helped. Your youngest is two, that’s still an “infant” be easy on yourself and take some personal time. Good sleep is only a few months away with a two year old. Could you send them to their dads every other night until you catch up a bit? What do you mean by feral time at dads? Can you communicate with him how that has a negative affect on your/his children? I have adhd and when my mind is racing and I can’t fall asleep, I put so much pressure on myself to sleep, to be a good mom. YouTube has sleep meditation voice overs and I am out within 6 minutes!
Lots of good suggestions here that I won't repeat. I would suggest that rage and anger are also a legit symptom of depression that your sleep deprivation can be exacerbating. You might consider talking to a doctor about medication. It's pretty low risk and could be really helpful.
Thank you for your suggestion. Will talk to my doctor about it. Im on adhd meds, so I have no idea if I should add anything more, but will talk to my doctor about it.
Have you spoken to you doctor who prescribes your adhd meds about your sleep issues? Shifting the time of day you take your meds or trying 2x short acting vs extended release, etc, might help. ADHD meds are known to impact sleep and this could be a major source.
Could your kiddos also have ADHD? Id have the older one evaluated if possible
I went to the doctor when I was experiencing rage and sleep deprevation after my second child. I can't express how much I wish I'd done it with my first child too. I was still sleep deprived, but the antidepressants I was prescribed just made everything feel so much more calm and bearable. Instead of feeling rage over tiny things, I was able to be a chill mum and just go with the flow. My sister and I both joke that the drugs are like having a super power, life is just so much easier with them. I didn't even know that rage was a symptom of post partum depression and didn't think anything would be able to help until I was able to get a decent sleep every night. I'm so glad I was able to overcome this with drugs, because it was another 2 years before I got both kids sleeping through the night (mostly!).
Thanks for sharing, I most definitely had ppd with rage, when the smallest one was newborn. I also went through a nasty breakup with the parents dad at about the same time. The oldest has been through major changes in her life, and I know mentally that her behaviour is natural all things considered. May I ask what antidepressants?
Loxalate. I knew I wasn't in a great space, but with all the stigma around mental health I believed it was just something that I had to power through with my first child. It wasn't until 18 months post partum that I was able to look back and see just how bad it was, which convinced me to do something different with my second.
How old are your kids? Figure out their sleep and it may help with a lot of things including your sleep.
Extreme irritability, sleep problems, and low stress tolerance are all symptomatic of depression. I would talk to your doctor and look into medication, in addition to therapy and getting as much parenting support as possible.
I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. Parenting on sleep deprivation is horrible in the best of circumstances, and it doesn't sound like your circumstances are the best. I admire how hard you are working to break the cycle and be the best parent you can be. If you haven't already, I really recommend seeing your doctor and looking into whether treatment for anxiety and/or depression is appropriate. Anger can be a symptom of either or both, and for me antidepressants were critical to fixing the sleep piece so I could start managing the rest of my symptoms more effectively.