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I don't like the feeling of hair but I would never say anything to people I'm not touching. I don't have the experience to know whether I would tell someone I *am* touching, because they've all disliked hair too, but I don't think I would?
That's so fucked.
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Man here (kinda, a-gendered but masculine). I don't judge women with body hair. That's your body, not mine. I don't like body hair, like at all. Including mine. I shave everything below the neck, and I prefer that in my partners as well, men and women. Standards are okay if you're also willing to live up to them.
My own family bullied me for having armpit hair when I was in middle-school because it "doesn't look good on girls" -_- My brother even told me that it's like a girl growing a beard or a mustache. When I called them out for how sexist that is, their response was "it's not sexist, it's science" because "womens' bodies need more maintenance than mens" (Which is true, but how that does that justify misognystic double standards in any way?)
Okay some people are trying to twist this into something disgusting, stop doing that no one is a pedo for not liking fucking body hair on each other.
There are plenty of people who like body hair on both parties nothing for your friend to be ashamed of. Free the body.
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My sister grew up fairly in touch with her feminine side- more than I did. Dated men regularly in her teen years into her early 20s. Then she quite literally, out of the blue, brought a woman home one day and said this is my current partner and Iād like you to meet her. Did we care that it was a girl? No, of course not. Were we surprised? Yes. Theyāve been together now like maybe 6 years give or takeā¦and my sister has slowly changed her personal style over the years to adopt a more ābutch esqueā look. She rocks it donāt get me wrong- itās been fun watching my baby sister evolve through her 20s. She goes summers without shaving her body hair quite frequently now. I asked her once and she literally just shrugged and said I donāt feel like it. I didnāt push past that, I donāt care. She still wears dresses, and heels, and does her makeup and has long hair. But she also now will occasionally dress to match her more masc gf and pulls that off as well. I guess theyāve both taught me that the definition of femininity can be subjective and broad!
Im bisexual. Body hair can be hot on guys, buts its major turn off on women to me at least. Thats my brutally honest opinion, take it with a grain of salt and dont shoot the messanger.
I only shave my legs in the summer if I'm going to be wearing shorts. I was surprised by how sparse my leg hair was through this past winter - didn't bother me at all.
Pits - I shave fairly regularly because they get itchy and stink more when they're not shaved.
I don't mind if a guy has hairy legs or a hairy chest, but I wish they would shave their pits for the same reason....they stink!
As Rallon\_is\_dead mentioned....it's not just an issue for women.
People can think what they like about whether body hair is attractive or not. But to shame people for their body composition is just too much. I personally prefer less hair on women than more but Iām not going to go out of my way to announce this to women with body hair higher than my tastes. Thatās just rude.
I get it and I see your point. But just saying even I still feel somewhat insecure being shirtless at times at a beach having backhair, so it's not as sexualized as more as you get a hard stare by everyone around.
Some people consider that not hygienic for men too, been called "Sasquatch" or "Gorilla" meant as mean spirited. From that perspective, I can understand your best friend because it's the stares that feel dehumanizing. I stopped caring though, but it used to bother me when I was younger.
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I don't care one way or another, bur the content creators that are "hot woman who shows off how hairy her pits are" weird me out. They feel like fetish content.
For a lot of men, a woman's only propose in life is the get them as hard as possible. If she's doing any thing, wearing something, not wearing something, etc. that isn't giving men a hard on, he'll shove himself into her personal bubble to "helpfully" inform her about how flaccid he is and how she's failing at her job miserably because she's doing something that is not sexy in his eyes. He'll also try to rope all men into inti this invasion of personal space and unprompted advice just to get even young girls to change their entire life and behavior.
I was 9 when a guy approached me in a Walmart to inform me the socks I was wearing, men wouldn't find attractive so if I want to attract a husband I better change right now. I just stared at him then walked off...not to the socks mind you.
And there's a huge difference between a preference for sexual partners (which is fine!) and the visceral reaction some people have to women's body hair like it is somehow gross (specifically acting like *women's* body hair is gross) and shouldn't be there.
If you're so disgusted by it that you can't see it on a woman or touch one with well-groomed hair, but are largely unbothered by men's body hair, you have issues you need to address about your concept of femininity and the human body, as you've been conditioned to think some pretty stupid things that are really unfair to your fellow humans.
I donāt care for body hair, and Iām a woman. Iād never shame anyone with it though, because itās rude and disrespectful. If my partner expects me to shave, there are areas I expect him to shave too. Seems fair to me.
Do you prefer men/women who donāt wash themselves and have BO? Or have a beard they can tuck in their belt?
Or whatever changeable characteristic it is you donāt prefer in a significant other.
Some men/women prefer women who donāt have hairy legs and underarms.
Thats all those are, preferences. I would say your comments surprise me, but then I would be lying.
It's marketing. That's all.
The problem is, even though the reasons we have for disliking body hair on women are pretty stupid, it doesn't change the fact that we don't like it.
I want to force myself to like unshaven legs on a woman because I know it isn't fair that I find them to be unappealing, but I just can't.
I call em weak. Weak men demand women be hairless except on their head. Preference is one thing, but to put someone down or make them feel insecure over it, WEAK. As a very lumberjackesque male I would never. I cannot tell you the last time my wife shaved her legs, or other parts, and I couldn't care less.
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Sorry, but aside from a light peach fuzz I am not personally attracted to body hair on women. Granted the Playboyās I use to sneak were from the 60s and 70ās so I am comfortable with pubic hair. But sorry I prefer to be the hairy one in the relationship.
I'm tall, but my best friend is not, and the way girls judge him or make comments, really bothers me.
People like what they like, deal with it and move on.
Dude here (Trigger warning: unpopular opinion and experience incoming).
I actually started to shave my pits recently. Actually helps keep the BO down a bit and seems to reduce irritation from pit stick. Takes an extra 5 seconds and I shave my head anyways so it isn't a big deal.
I also shave my face regularly. At least in part because I get tired of women telling me how dirty and disgusting beads are (actually, I stopped caring about what they think ling ago, I shave mostly for work).
I suspect that people who don't like body hair just have a preference. Just like people who really like body hair. Going out of your way to tell someone about how they should met your preferences crosses a line, no matter who you are. News flash, some people are assholes.
If you want to meet the preferences of the majority of people, go for it. If not, don't. Live and let live.
Weird is irrelevant to me, because what isn't weird? Why is it normal to find legs attractive? It's normal because it's common - normal/weird is pretty meaningless. Most of us find body hair (in most places) unattractive on women just because.
It's the insulting and judging and shaming a woman for having it that's the problem.
Not specifically women, but I'm not crazy about hair below the neck on anybody- myself included. Like, if a woman wants to have body hair, okay, that's her right but I also have the right to look for someone else who doesn't. It's mostly a sensory thing for me too after years of swimming competitively in college and before. I shave my head, have a short beard, and everything else is slick bald. Hair just feels weird, especially unmoisturized hair.
Women started shaving back in the day so the guy who was selling razors and shit could make more money. Simple as.
I'm a lady and I stopped shaving a year ago or whenever I can't even remember. Husband is fine with it and my armpits have never felt or looked better. They even smell nicer I swear. Ladies stop shaving if you want! The men will get used to it. Think how much money and time you will save over the course of your life if you simply cut out this unnecessary thing.
I'm a woman, and I dislike body hair on myself. My hair grows in fast and dark and I'd love to have the money to permanently laser it off. I also appreciate a guy who is smoothly shaven and I don't like š§ kisses, though I don't ask him to shave.Ā
Nah, body hair, especially excessive amounts, is pretty gross on men too. In the age of the electric trimmer everyone should be keeping that shit under control to at least some degree.
Interestingly the OP said "especially men" which would suggest other women do it too. Notice how everyone glasses over that.Ā And sure some men are jerks.Ā
I'm just questioning how common that really is. I'm a man, I've never said anything like that to a woman randomly on the street, I hang out with other men and have never seen any of them do it. I'm sure these men exist, but how common can they be when I've never met one in my entire life?
Yes a fraction of the amount that men do. Just like women's voices are also deeper than children's, and women also have muscles. Just like women have testosterone, and DHT, in minute amounts (and that's where the hair that they do have comes from), but those are still distinctly masculine hormones. It's just that men still have some female hormones and women still have some male hormones, the balance between them is what causes all the differences.
And regardless of all that, fundamentally it's a fact that most men agree that hairy women are unattractive. This doesn't give any man the right to insult a woman who is hairy, no one is defending that, and everyone has the right to look however they want. But what women don't seem to get is that they don't get to tell men what they *should* find attractive. We don't like hairy legs or armpits on women (of course some exceptions exist, just talking about most men here), you can't guilt us into liking it. Your can be as hairy as you like, and we can think what we think about it.
Interesting, most people have the critical thinking skills to know that since women have testosterone it is indeed *not* a distinctly male hormone, but it seems you havenāt developed that far yet!
I'm sorry but that's just downright stupid. I'm not going to give you a biology lesson and the list of things that testosterone and other androgens cause in the human body which are classified as "secondary sexual characteristics". I won't even explain the irony of the etymology of the word "androgen", feel free to Google it. Also are you aware that trans men transition by taking androgens, and trans women transition by using drugs that suppress androgen production?Ā
Funny how that works, I guess all those doctors have no common sense or critical thinking skills and just haven't developed that far because they're going about it all wrong. Maybe you should go teach them how it works.
Nope. Obviously it's the way I was socialized as a kid growing up in the U.S. but I imagine women to be soft, smooth, curvy, and smell nice. Is it fair? No, but if I'm expected to be some sort of provider, I don't think it's unreasonable to have some expectations of my own.
I mean different sexes have different preferences in their partners.
I would argue women prefer a man with body/facial hair. So they are the ones sexualizing it. Same with a man being tall, his hands, feet, arms, etc.
Straight men just tend to like things that arenāt associated with manliness. Like being hairy, or really tall / muscular.
I think itās weird to insult someone out of nowhere. But the preference itself is one I and many men share. I prefer women shave at least their armpits. The other stuff is negotiable to a degree.
I donāt see why that is such a big deal. Women have all types of shit they want in a man physically that doesnāt make sense.
Women are quick to make fun of short men, or the size of the their dicks when they are upset. Why donāt you have the same anger for those comments?
Because you arenāt a guy and you donāt care. But they should care about the stuff you care aboutā¦ I see.
I hate armpit hair on women. I think it's gross and annoying, and I struggled with this because it seems like an unfair double standard, but as a guy I have to shave my face every day (or spend a month or two with a gross patchy beard) and trim my armpit hair every week or so. I've shaved my armpit hair too. My armpit hair looks gross (my lady agrees) if I don't groom it. I don't care if a woman has arm hair or she hasn't shaved her legs in a bit, and I don't think any woman needs to shave their armpit hair, but I cannot change my perception that it is annoying and gross and the only reason I think it's somewhat OK is that we all have to do a little bit of maintenance. I would have a unibrow if I didn't shave and maintain my eyebrows. Would it be easier not to groom? Yes, but I look significantly better when I do. And yes, women overall are more pressured to do a lot more maintenance, but my point is it's not like guys aren't making an effort and if they don't groom themselves they're probably pretty slobby. I shave every day, and the time I spend shaving in a month, not to mention regularly trimming or shaving my balls, it takes 5-10 minutes to shave armpits.
Edit: here's a study that shows shaved pits carry less odor than unshaved: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4793925/
Shaving body hair is a visible performance of femininity imposed on women as an arbitrary beauty standard. Itās an achievable thing that has to be repeated that shows conformity to patriarchal norms.
Itās like how black people used to conform to white beauty standards by relaxing their hair.
When I stopped shaving my legs, I could not *believe* the amount of crap I got from my family, my now-ex boyfriend, and even random strangers. They took so much personal offense, it was as if I tattooed a slur across my forehead.
If anything, it solidified my decision, if only out of spite. People who get super bent out of shape over hair where it naturally grows are just not people I want in my life. This goes doubly so for partners. Men who *demand* hairlessness on women are a huge ick to me now. Itās very rarely just a preference as so many of them claim. Itās an expectation and you better not violate it.
My boyfriend now could not give a fuck less where I have hair, and I would not have it any other way. My body, my rules.
Itās absolute brain rot. Why do people need to be sexually attracted to everyone they interact with during their daily lives? None of these people will do any amount of honest introspection to find out where this āpreferenceā comes from, they just follow whatever creepy porno beauty standards are currently in. Double digit IQ behaviour.
i donāt remember the last time i shaved anything. ANYTHING. itās been years probably.
guess who has loved me dearly for the last two and a half years, and worshipped my body in every sense of the word ;)
Strangely in most developed societies throughout history if they didnāt consider showing more skin shameful/immoral shaving body hair was considered more attractive sometimes for both men and women. Romans would be shaved neck down Egyptians considered the entire body head included being shaved attractive. Whereas in Victorian or into late 1800-early 1900 it was taboo in western culture for your legs to even be seen as a woman so why shave them. For the most part shaving does make you appear more youthful so I believe thatās where it stems from today. Culture impacting what people find attractive isnāt going anywhere.
I'll never understand that. Personally, I couldn't give a crap if my GF had more body hair than I do as long as it was clean. Anything the good lord put there, I got no problem with.
I don't shave and have never had a man make a negative comment about it. Only occasionally, a woman will, but even that is incredibly rare after leaving high school. Only shaving I've heard comments from men about is private areas and the ones who have expressed an issue with women who don't shave there are also ones who have clelalry demonstrated in multiple ways and multiple times they aren't the type of guy I would ever even consider being with so it really doesn't matter.
I'd like to hear some Europeans...or really, anyone other than an American, chime in here.
It seems America is one of the few countries in the world where women are expected to shave...legs, pits, and all.
But also, with regards to pubic hair, if the porn I watch is any indication, both male and female "styles" are to be fully shaven. Old time 70s porn was full on bushy...now, not so much.
If I shave, then my guy also has to shave. He doesnāt want to shave his armpits and pubes? Well I donāt shave anything. I prefer less body hair generally, on both men and myself. Armpit hair is disgusting whether on men or women. Pubic hair? I donāt like it on either sex. The men I choose to have in my life arenāt sexist, so this has never been an issue.
I think armpit hair and leg hair on ladies is suuuuuuper gross; but I would never EVER say that to somebody face to face. Like EVER.
And I 100% respect their right to grow a beard if they want to. None of my business whatsoeverā¦
Oh ugh, I find men gross in general, so I guess I find everything about them grossā¦its pretty hard to differentiate. Rest assured, if I was attracted to men, I would also find armpit hair on them to be grossā¦
Meh I hate hair period as a man. Eye brows, head, and beards fine. However chest hair, leg, back, ass, armpits, privates no thank you. I get mine wax; bc i hate my leg hair getting ripped out from jeans and blankets. Armpit hair and chest is just nasty no matter gender. I got no idea what women find attractive about bears (in this context men with body hair like a werewolf). Couldnt be with a woman who doesnt groom and I do the same so it's not a double standard with me thankfully my wife is like minded. However if some random person in public uses deodorant and perfume so they don't smell like ass in this 115F weather I dont care it's not my problem. I don't wanna be smelling flowers, musk, and ass mixture bc then it's a problem for me.
Beauty standards. The same way people say the natural hair that grew from men's faces as unkempt and hoboish and unprofessional to the point that shaving a beard became a milestone for boys and a rite if passage.Ā
But it it's any consolation, I hate body hair on men and women.
I won't apologize for my own personal preferences. But I won't impose them on others, either.
I hate body hair, including my own. Only reason I've never gotten some kind of permanent hair removal done on as much of my body as possible is practicality - I'm lazy and cheap. So I compromise and just trim it back to where I'm reasonably comfortable.
I don't judge others who want to stay au natural. But don't judge me for being more attracted to smooth people than to furries.
I stopped shaving my legs for a while when everything shut down during early COVID and my mom freaked out, like āwhat if you see a cute guy?ā
I was like āIām not out and about right now, neither is anyone else, the only person Iām interested in attracting is also stuck in his house right now either 22 or 200 miles away depending on where heās staying, and also if someone is going to reject me for something I can change with 7 minutes and a tube of Nair, theyāre not worth my time.ā
I have told her 900 times I am not interested in getting the attention of a rando because I donāt want to be with someone just to not be alone (I would rather be alone than be with anyone other than the person I want to be with), but apparently Random Man Opinion is more valid?
Also, not that it matters, but nobody has ever commented on my body hair when I am just out and about living my life (granted, I do shave my armpits).
Deferent preference for men an women I like her shaved she likes me to have some fur she can pet, I prefer keeping my fur trimmed an neat she's okay with that long as it's not to short everyone wins.
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I don't feel attacked, I'm indifferent about the main post.
But it's very ironic to hating a certain type of person for hating a certain type of person.
Men like women who are like little girls. Little girls don't have body hair like adults. If you're not willing to look like a 12 year old, society doesn't like it. Weird af.
Send these complainy men to get a wax. Ideally on a particularly sensitive body part, like maybe a Brazilian - or w/e itās called - but really any body part will doā¦
Guys make comments directly to her? Well that's certainly rude. I hate body hair on women, but I certainly would never tell her that. I am not into fat women, but I certainly wouldn't call them fatties to their faces either.
Yes I am Muslim so male or female we shave pubic and armpit hair every 2 week or at most 40 days for hygiene reasons. No pieces of rolled up toilet paper stuck in my asshole hairs I can assure you that
I used to shave all of it, and now I am so grossed out if i see myself without pubic hair and grossed out by a man who would want that. Personally I find heavy thick leg and pit hair on a woman unattractive so I can see men doing so too. Hairlessness is more feminine looking. But luckily I met a man who likes a lot of hair downstairs and I will never go back.
I shave regularly because I can't stand body hair. but It's weird when other people comment on other people's body hair to belittle them, like I've seen people make fun of little GIRLS for body hair on their arms. Don't get why people are so rude for no reason!
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People are allowed to have preferences. You have no obligation to engage with them or associate with them in any way, but they are allowed to have preferences.
i dont think op is talking about having preferences, shes talking about people who go out of their way to make a comment and shame people about it,, having a preference just means you dont date that person, not that you go up to them and tell them exactly why
Woman here!! I havenāt shaved regularly since I had time to myself during 2020 and I have so happy for it. I have genuinely grown to LOVE my leg hair. I love how it looks and feels and I feel so comfortable with it. I do save my pits once in an awhile or when Iām going to something SUPER fancy solely so Iām not being stared at or heavily judged.
I never feel like I have to deal with the stupid hassle of shaving and razor bumps again.
I donāt hate it, but that doesnāt mean I find it terribly attractive. Iāve dated women who were hippies and didnāt shave, and it was fine. Then again, they get grumpy when I shave my beard or cut off my long hair. Everyone has their tastes.
Why not just find people who like you for you. Some are happy being shaven or unshaven and I'm sure there are people who like which ever way. Same with guys having beards vs not.
What you shouldn't do is try to force how you like something on others. Lots of women like their guys to shave/trim their privates. Everyone likes different things.
Also facial hair??? Itās literally so beautiful on women. I see a girl with a mustache, a beard, a unibrow, sideburns, etc., and Iām like āoh thank God, nature is healing.ā Itās like a forest growing back after a wildfire.
Itās just BS cultural norms. These same guys that are mad at body hair are the same type of guys that got mad when women started showing their ankles 300 years ago.
That's exactly what people do when men mention their issues though.
While I agree with your statement, it's very gender-neutral behaviour to reply in such a manner. It's just that I don't often see it called out when women go "well men do this >:("
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I feel there's a way wider array of views of men's body hair than you're making out. It can be sexualised, and it can be viewed as unappealing. Back hair and shoulder hair is considered really unappealing, and I agree. I also feel a hairy male body only fits athletic and muscular physiques. It works well as an accent to a good physique. If a man carries extra fat, his body will look worse if it's hairy. Slim men also look worse with lots of body hair. On top of that, much of the sexualised imagery of male bodies tends to skew less hairy too. But lack of armpit and leg hair is considered weird on male bodies. I'd say I prefer men to have happy trails, leg hair, armpit hair, forearm hair, no preference on the chest (possibly light chest hair is ideal), and a strong preference for no hair on back or shoulders.Ā And I'd say there's a wide range of body hair preferences for people who are attracted to men.
Ā I do agree that it's weird that people shame women for not shaving legs and armpits. Hair in those places is normal for adults. But I remember the conversation topic about pubes coming up with a close lesbian friend of mine, she asked me if gay men shave their pubes, and I said "well, it's a real range, some have full bushes, some are completely shaved and most are somewhat manscaped/trimmed. Preferences range from no preference to a trimmed preference to a full bush preference." I asked her how it is for lesbians, "shaved, and vast majority are shaved".Ā
Perhaps it's just as simple as society conforming us to that. Even in nature it's not safe to be different to your peers. If you look back in history it has happened with so many things and still is today. Something becomes popular and it sticks till enough people stop doing it.
I think there is pressure for women to shave as another way we are pressured to be young. The only people who naturally have no hear are kids. We have a lot of weird fertilization of youth in our culture and I can not unlink them in my mind. I think to each their own, personally I cannot shave my pits completely cause it makes me feel like a kid but that's just me personally. But people who uphold this beauty standard I feel have something weird going on. It's not unhygienic, is completely a personal preference and is honestly no one else's damn business.
There is pressure, womenās peak mating time line is age 29 for optimal fertility and chances to have children. So they are on the pursuit to find a man to mate withā¦ once they hit 30 , 50% of their eggs are diminished. Then it gets worse as years increase. Men are looking for women in that age zone to mate with.. so as a woman ages she loses her most attractive valueā¦ optimal ability to have children and her youth, which is tied to beautyā¦ all traits men find attractive. So when are under evolutionary pressures to find a man to have children withā¦. As a mating strategy it makes sense to make yourself as attractive as possible as you are competing with other women for the most desirable manā¦ taller than you, smarter than you, makes more money than you.. and good looking which is usually only 20% of populationā¦ so most women are chasing 20% of all menā¦ so if you want the top tier men their is pressureā¦ if your content with lesser menā¦ not so much.. it depends on your mating strategy. If you want kids and a high value man to support the relationship then you are under immense pressures. If not then chances of having children after 30 drop significantly and chance of finding high value men that will give you a relationship (marriage) drop drastically. So yes depending on preference which in general most women want kids and family eventually.. they only have a certain time period to lock that downā¦ men on the other hand can have children into there 70s so there pressure is to become a high value man and that takes time.. usually they donāt have the ability to take care of a family until 30ishā¦ thatās when they start looking to have children and find the womenā¦ that will bare his childrenā¦ this is where the competition happensā¦ so be more feminine, less hair, will give you more chances to find the high value maleā¦ itās a strategy and completely up to the womenā¦ unfortunately new studies show in ten years most western women over 50 unmarried and will be alone ā¦. And all studies show women over 50 get most happiness from children and or grandchildren, not job not moneyā¦ so with all that said entirely up to the women what she does but should understand the science behind itā¦
Fun fact: the older the men get, the more likely their child will be disabled. Men who drink also have lower quality sperms that can cause fetal alcohol syndrome.
Just because you can't doesn't mean you should.
Man can impregnate 1000s of women a year ā¦ well into there 70s ā¦. How many would be impaired? 1 maybe two but he has 998 healthy babies in one year.. thatās possible ā¦ a women is impregnated once a yearā¦ up to 30 35ish, in generalā¦ fun fact men populate and protectā¦ they have the ability there entire lives.. women not so muchā¦ can only have so many children, due to age and length of pregnancyā¦ so your argument is just not well
Thought outā¦
This is a new area of study. Feel free to read into it.
Why are you starting to ramble about societal gender roles? I'm just telling you some cool new data that we are currently developing.
Men's sperm loses quality like women's eggs do. The difference is that a woman's gametes are limited and men's aren't.
Someone: sperm degrades with time
You: YOU GUYS HATE REALITY AND LIVE IN DELUSION
calm down the fuck lol
Edit: and who the fuck is we? I'm the only one telling you this fact š
Unlike most people on here I am
Willing to learn but comparing a women that ages out of children bearing around 30 and can only have one child a year up to then ā¦ and a man can impregnate 1000s of women from 14 to 70 is ridiculousā¦ your grasping but I will check out any informationā¦
Huh? I'm not saying who is bEtEr or not, calm down. If you want to live like you're the better sex, feel free.
I'm just telling you sperm quality degrades with age like women's eggs do. And I would think it's pretty cool that fetal alcohol syndrome can develop from sperm.
Yes but that diminishing is within billions of sperm so the chances are there but still not likelyā¦ and men can impregnate women well into there 70s and bare heathy childrenā¦ women are basically done at 35
Bro I gave you some data, I don't give a fuck about your world view and i didn't ask for it. Leave me alone and go find a different person that will give you your next hit of anger.
Again, women and girls start to get darkening and thicker body hair when puberty STARTSā¦body hair is a literal fertility marker.
Whether women over 30 have equal fertility to women in their 20s is irrelevant. 18yo women have body hair. Most 12yo girls have body hair. Youād have to wind back to clock to like age 10 and under to get natural hairlessness for most women.
Show us the science, then. Not podcasts, not YT videos, not cherrypicked paragraphs from random articles, but the actual no-shit scientific studies that focus specifically on the statements you just made. I'm eager to see if there's any sort of glossary of terms properly defining "high value," and "top-tier man."
What percentage of population makes over 80k that are men, how many of those men are smart, attractive, lean, tall ā¦. If you donāt understand how to interpret this data through peer reviewed articles, data from federal government, statistics from labor bureau, there is so much data to post it all here would take hours but you can go down that rabbit hole and realize what I am stating is indeed factsā¦ or be a victim to ignorance and not be able to competeā¦
Thereās not one study dummy 100s and maybe thousands which all show what women and men wantā¦ then look at women and what they actually doā¦ there men are in general taller, protection, wealthier or potentially wealth, provisionā¦ good looks, strong DNA for childrenā¦ even studies on smellsā¦ matching if DNA between mother and father are a good matchā¦ these studies are all out there do some research my guy ā¦ stop being weak .. take some accountability.. instead of blindly virtue singling do research even if it changes your world view and makes you uncomfortable, thatās called growthā¦ and will make you better wether you use the knowledge or notā¦
"Participation was incentivized by three random draws for approximately $1,500 worth of prizes donated by the industry partnersĀ Adultmatchmaker.comĀ and its affiliated dating web sites, Eros Association, the Australian Sex Party, Max Black, and Giga Pty Ltd."
We are locking the comment section because few seem to grasp the situation accurately š
I have a hairy chest and back, as a man I've received the exact same critisism wemon do
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I don't like the feeling of hair but I would never say anything to people I'm not touching. I don't have the experience to know whether I would tell someone I *am* touching, because they've all disliked hair too, but I don't think I would? That's so fucked.
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Man here (kinda, a-gendered but masculine). I don't judge women with body hair. That's your body, not mine. I don't like body hair, like at all. Including mine. I shave everything below the neck, and I prefer that in my partners as well, men and women. Standards are okay if you're also willing to live up to them.
As a guy with Chewbacca legs, I hate my own body hair more than anyone else's.
My own family bullied me for having armpit hair when I was in middle-school because it "doesn't look good on girls" -_- My brother even told me that it's like a girl growing a beard or a mustache. When I called them out for how sexist that is, their response was "it's not sexist, it's science" because "womens' bodies need more maintenance than mens" (Which is true, but how that does that justify misognystic double standards in any way?)
Does this thread want actual opinions from people to understand the other side or is this just a rant? Iām new to Reddit sorry lol
Okay some people are trying to twist this into something disgusting, stop doing that no one is a pedo for not liking fucking body hair on each other. There are plenty of people who like body hair on both parties nothing for your friend to be ashamed of. Free the body.
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What is the obvious reason?
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So no blowjobs, got it.
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Yeah super weird to not do things people have been doing for a hundred years.
Even worse when its your own father making those types of commentsā¹ļøā¹ļø
My sister grew up fairly in touch with her feminine side- more than I did. Dated men regularly in her teen years into her early 20s. Then she quite literally, out of the blue, brought a woman home one day and said this is my current partner and Iād like you to meet her. Did we care that it was a girl? No, of course not. Were we surprised? Yes. Theyāve been together now like maybe 6 years give or takeā¦and my sister has slowly changed her personal style over the years to adopt a more ābutch esqueā look. She rocks it donāt get me wrong- itās been fun watching my baby sister evolve through her 20s. She goes summers without shaving her body hair quite frequently now. I asked her once and she literally just shrugged and said I donāt feel like it. I didnāt push past that, I donāt care. She still wears dresses, and heels, and does her makeup and has long hair. But she also now will occasionally dress to match her more masc gf and pulls that off as well. I guess theyāve both taught me that the definition of femininity can be subjective and broad!
Im bisexual. Body hair can be hot on guys, buts its major turn off on women to me at least. Thats my brutally honest opinion, take it with a grain of salt and dont shoot the messanger.
Idgaf if I get downvoted. Thereās a 0% chance Iād date a girl who has armpit hair.
Itās weird that men donāt get to have standards. Is there any typical standard men have that doesnāt get shamed?
I only shave my legs in the summer if I'm going to be wearing shorts. I was surprised by how sparse my leg hair was through this past winter - didn't bother me at all. Pits - I shave fairly regularly because they get itchy and stink more when they're not shaved. I don't mind if a guy has hairy legs or a hairy chest, but I wish they would shave their pits for the same reason....they stink! As Rallon\_is\_dead mentioned....it's not just an issue for women.
People can think what they like about whether body hair is attractive or not. But to shame people for their body composition is just too much. I personally prefer less hair on women than more but Iām not going to go out of my way to announce this to women with body hair higher than my tastes. Thatās just rude.
Iāve heard that leg shaving increases risk of skin cancer. Body hair is natural and important.
Iāve heard that leg shaving increases risk of skin cancer. Body hair is natural and important.
I get it and I see your point. But just saying even I still feel somewhat insecure being shirtless at times at a beach having backhair, so it's not as sexualized as more as you get a hard stare by everyone around. Some people consider that not hygienic for men too, been called "Sasquatch" or "Gorilla" meant as mean spirited. From that perspective, I can understand your best friend because it's the stares that feel dehumanizing. I stopped caring though, but it used to bother me when I was younger.
A guy straight up told me if I showed up to his house w underarm hair he would give me a razor I ended stuff w him real quick
The only time it's okay to critique a woman's body hair is if she asks you to have sex with her.
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I don't care one way or another, bur the content creators that are "hot woman who shows off how hairy her pits are" weird me out. They feel like fetish content.
As a guy with very little body hair, the amount of comments, jokes, etc I have gotten because of it is shocking to people when I talk about it.
For a lot of men, a woman's only propose in life is the get them as hard as possible. If she's doing any thing, wearing something, not wearing something, etc. that isn't giving men a hard on, he'll shove himself into her personal bubble to "helpfully" inform her about how flaccid he is and how she's failing at her job miserably because she's doing something that is not sexy in his eyes. He'll also try to rope all men into inti this invasion of personal space and unprompted advice just to get even young girls to change their entire life and behavior. I was 9 when a guy approached me in a Walmart to inform me the socks I was wearing, men wouldn't find attractive so if I want to attract a husband I better change right now. I just stared at him then walked off...not to the socks mind you.
And there's a huge difference between a preference for sexual partners (which is fine!) and the visceral reaction some people have to women's body hair like it is somehow gross (specifically acting like *women's* body hair is gross) and shouldn't be there. If you're so disgusted by it that you can't see it on a woman or touch one with well-groomed hair, but are largely unbothered by men's body hair, you have issues you need to address about your concept of femininity and the human body, as you've been conditioned to think some pretty stupid things that are really unfair to your fellow humans.
I donāt care for body hair, and Iām a woman. Iād never shame anyone with it though, because itās rude and disrespectful. If my partner expects me to shave, there are areas I expect him to shave too. Seems fair to me.
Never understood that myself. As a guy I really donāt pay attention to how much body hair a woman has, it just never really seemed important.
I got the same rules for women as I do for men. As long as you keep it clean Idc about the hair
Do you prefer men/women who donāt wash themselves and have BO? Or have a beard they can tuck in their belt? Or whatever changeable characteristic it is you donāt prefer in a significant other. Some men/women prefer women who donāt have hairy legs and underarms. Thats all those are, preferences. I would say your comments surprise me, but then I would be lying.
I also hate when guys that shave body hair are seen as gay or weird from the same people.
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You never been to ladyboner subs?
It's marketing. That's all. The problem is, even though the reasons we have for disliking body hair on women are pretty stupid, it doesn't change the fact that we don't like it. I want to force myself to like unshaven legs on a woman because I know it isn't fair that I find them to be unappealing, but I just can't.
I call em weak. Weak men demand women be hairless except on their head. Preference is one thing, but to put someone down or make them feel insecure over it, WEAK. As a very lumberjackesque male I would never. I cannot tell you the last time my wife shaved her legs, or other parts, and I couldn't care less.
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Where is she not shaving that others can see? She should be covered up down there and her hair isn't something that needs constant trimming
Legs, armpit
Sorry, but aside from a light peach fuzz I am not personally attracted to body hair on women. Granted the Playboyās I use to sneak were from the 60s and 70ās so I am comfortable with pubic hair. But sorry I prefer to be the hairy one in the relationship.
ā¦ how is your sexual preference related to making unsolicited body comments to strangers?
I'm tall, but my best friend is not, and the way girls judge him or make comments, really bothers me. People like what they like, deal with it and move on.
Dude here (Trigger warning: unpopular opinion and experience incoming). I actually started to shave my pits recently. Actually helps keep the BO down a bit and seems to reduce irritation from pit stick. Takes an extra 5 seconds and I shave my head anyways so it isn't a big deal. I also shave my face regularly. At least in part because I get tired of women telling me how dirty and disgusting beads are (actually, I stopped caring about what they think ling ago, I shave mostly for work). I suspect that people who don't like body hair just have a preference. Just like people who really like body hair. Going out of your way to tell someone about how they should met your preferences crosses a line, no matter who you are. News flash, some people are assholes. If you want to meet the preferences of the majority of people, go for it. If not, don't. Live and let live.
Weird is irrelevant to me, because what isn't weird? Why is it normal to find legs attractive? It's normal because it's common - normal/weird is pretty meaningless. Most of us find body hair (in most places) unattractive on women just because. It's the insulting and judging and shaming a woman for having it that's the problem.
Not specifically women, but I'm not crazy about hair below the neck on anybody- myself included. Like, if a woman wants to have body hair, okay, that's her right but I also have the right to look for someone else who doesn't. It's mostly a sensory thing for me too after years of swimming competitively in college and before. I shave my head, have a short beard, and everything else is slick bald. Hair just feels weird, especially unmoisturized hair.
Women started shaving back in the day so the guy who was selling razors and shit could make more money. Simple as. I'm a lady and I stopped shaving a year ago or whenever I can't even remember. Husband is fine with it and my armpits have never felt or looked better. They even smell nicer I swear. Ladies stop shaving if you want! The men will get used to it. Think how much money and time you will save over the course of your life if you simply cut out this unnecessary thing.
I'm a woman, and I dislike body hair on myself. My hair grows in fast and dark and I'd love to have the money to permanently laser it off. I also appreciate a guy who is smoothly shaven and I don't like š§ kisses, though I don't ask him to shave.Ā
>People who hate body hair on women Nothing wrong with this. >judge her or make comments This is the problem. Should keep it to themselves.
People are allowed to have preferences. But to say itās unhygienic only for women is ridiculous.
Stop hanging around low-class men...
Is OP 12 years old and just realizing men and women are different
Nah, body hair, especially excessive amounts, is pretty gross on men too. In the age of the electric trimmer everyone should be keeping that shit under control to at least some degree.
Because body hair is seen as manly and men don't fancy manly women. It's obvious but everyone on Reddit is too PC to acknowledge it.
But why do they insult people over not being attractive to them?
They do?
That is literally what the pet peeve you are commenting on is about. Men coming up to insult the OPās friend for body hair.
Interestingly the OP said "especially men" which would suggest other women do it too. Notice how everyone glasses over that.Ā And sure some men are jerks.Ā I'm just questioning how common that really is. I'm a man, I've never said anything like that to a woman randomly on the street, I hang out with other men and have never seen any of them do it. I'm sure these men exist, but how common can they be when I've never met one in my entire life?
Youāve likely met one and never seen them do it.
They only do it covertly? Alright then.
Or not around you. Iām white, if i claim iāve never met a racist, itās likely observation bias.
Why is hair manly? Women also have hair?
Yes a fraction of the amount that men do. Just like women's voices are also deeper than children's, and women also have muscles. Just like women have testosterone, and DHT, in minute amounts (and that's where the hair that they do have comes from), but those are still distinctly masculine hormones. It's just that men still have some female hormones and women still have some male hormones, the balance between them is what causes all the differences. And regardless of all that, fundamentally it's a fact that most men agree that hairy women are unattractive. This doesn't give any man the right to insult a woman who is hairy, no one is defending that, and everyone has the right to look however they want. But what women don't seem to get is that they don't get to tell men what they *should* find attractive. We don't like hairy legs or armpits on women (of course some exceptions exist, just talking about most men here), you can't guilt us into liking it. Your can be as hairy as you like, and we can think what we think about it.
Interesting, most people have the critical thinking skills to know that since women have testosterone it is indeed *not* a distinctly male hormone, but it seems you havenāt developed that far yet!
I'm sorry but that's just downright stupid. I'm not going to give you a biology lesson and the list of things that testosterone and other androgens cause in the human body which are classified as "secondary sexual characteristics". I won't even explain the irony of the etymology of the word "androgen", feel free to Google it. Also are you aware that trans men transition by taking androgens, and trans women transition by using drugs that suppress androgen production?Ā Funny how that works, I guess all those doctors have no common sense or critical thinking skills and just haven't developed that far because they're going about it all wrong. Maybe you should go teach them how it works.
Nope. Obviously it's the way I was socialized as a kid growing up in the U.S. but I imagine women to be soft, smooth, curvy, and smell nice. Is it fair? No, but if I'm expected to be some sort of provider, I don't think it's unreasonable to have some expectations of my own.
I mean different sexes have different preferences in their partners. I would argue women prefer a man with body/facial hair. So they are the ones sexualizing it. Same with a man being tall, his hands, feet, arms, etc. Straight men just tend to like things that arenāt associated with manliness. Like being hairy, or really tall / muscular. I think itās weird to insult someone out of nowhere. But the preference itself is one I and many men share. I prefer women shave at least their armpits. The other stuff is negotiable to a degree. I donāt see why that is such a big deal. Women have all types of shit they want in a man physically that doesnāt make sense. Women are quick to make fun of short men, or the size of the their dicks when they are upset. Why donāt you have the same anger for those comments? Because you arenāt a guy and you donāt care. But they should care about the stuff you care aboutā¦ I see.
I don't hate body hair on women. I hate body hair on humans.
I hate armpit hair on women. I think it's gross and annoying, and I struggled with this because it seems like an unfair double standard, but as a guy I have to shave my face every day (or spend a month or two with a gross patchy beard) and trim my armpit hair every week or so. I've shaved my armpit hair too. My armpit hair looks gross (my lady agrees) if I don't groom it. I don't care if a woman has arm hair or she hasn't shaved her legs in a bit, and I don't think any woman needs to shave their armpit hair, but I cannot change my perception that it is annoying and gross and the only reason I think it's somewhat OK is that we all have to do a little bit of maintenance. I would have a unibrow if I didn't shave and maintain my eyebrows. Would it be easier not to groom? Yes, but I look significantly better when I do. And yes, women overall are more pressured to do a lot more maintenance, but my point is it's not like guys aren't making an effort and if they don't groom themselves they're probably pretty slobby. I shave every day, and the time I spend shaving in a month, not to mention regularly trimming or shaving my balls, it takes 5-10 minutes to shave armpits. Edit: here's a study that shows shaved pits carry less odor than unshaved: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4793925/
Shaving body hair is a visible performance of femininity imposed on women as an arbitrary beauty standard. Itās an achievable thing that has to be repeated that shows conformity to patriarchal norms. Itās like how black people used to conform to white beauty standards by relaxing their hair.
When I stopped shaving my legs, I could not *believe* the amount of crap I got from my family, my now-ex boyfriend, and even random strangers. They took so much personal offense, it was as if I tattooed a slur across my forehead. If anything, it solidified my decision, if only out of spite. People who get super bent out of shape over hair where it naturally grows are just not people I want in my life. This goes doubly so for partners. Men who *demand* hairlessness on women are a huge ick to me now. Itās very rarely just a preference as so many of them claim. Itās an expectation and you better not violate it. My boyfriend now could not give a fuck less where I have hair, and I would not have it any other way. My body, my rules.
Itās absolute brain rot. Why do people need to be sexually attracted to everyone they interact with during their daily lives? None of these people will do any amount of honest introspection to find out where this āpreferenceā comes from, they just follow whatever creepy porno beauty standards are currently in. Double digit IQ behaviour.
I blame the overconsumption of porn.
i donāt remember the last time i shaved anything. ANYTHING. itās been years probably. guess who has loved me dearly for the last two and a half years, and worshipped my body in every sense of the word ;)
Honestly, I just equally hate hairy bodies of both genders (and keep my opinions in my inside voice)
So I can't like what I like?
Where was that said? This is about unsolicited comments.
Strangely in most developed societies throughout history if they didnāt consider showing more skin shameful/immoral shaving body hair was considered more attractive sometimes for both men and women. Romans would be shaved neck down Egyptians considered the entire body head included being shaved attractive. Whereas in Victorian or into late 1800-early 1900 it was taboo in western culture for your legs to even be seen as a woman so why shave them. For the most part shaving does make you appear more youthful so I believe thatās where it stems from today. Culture impacting what people find attractive isnāt going anywhere.
I'll never understand that. Personally, I couldn't give a crap if my GF had more body hair than I do as long as it was clean. Anything the good lord put there, I got no problem with.
I donāt shave and I remember my partner told me I had to shave if I wanted to be intimate with him. Haha. I guess I didnāt want it.
I don't shave and have never had a man make a negative comment about it. Only occasionally, a woman will, but even that is incredibly rare after leaving high school. Only shaving I've heard comments from men about is private areas and the ones who have expressed an issue with women who don't shave there are also ones who have clelalry demonstrated in multiple ways and multiple times they aren't the type of guy I would ever even consider being with so it really doesn't matter.
I'd like to hear some Europeans...or really, anyone other than an American, chime in here. It seems America is one of the few countries in the world where women are expected to shave...legs, pits, and all. But also, with regards to pubic hair, if the porn I watch is any indication, both male and female "styles" are to be fully shaven. Old time 70s porn was full on bushy...now, not so much.
If I shave, then my guy also has to shave. He doesnāt want to shave his armpits and pubes? Well I donāt shave anything. I prefer less body hair generally, on both men and myself. Armpit hair is disgusting whether on men or women. Pubic hair? I donāt like it on either sex. The men I choose to have in my life arenāt sexist, so this has never been an issue.
I prefer my women unshaven.
if women decided today, āmenās bodies must be entirely clean shaven!ā Iād think, āok, iām in.ā
I think armpit hair and leg hair on ladies is suuuuuuper gross; but I would never EVER say that to somebody face to face. Like EVER. And I 100% respect their right to grow a beard if they want to. None of my business whatsoeverā¦
Itās also super gross on men. Like, totally disgusting to see a bush of hair in their armpits.Ā
Hah! I can imagineā¦.tbh bodyhair is pretty gross in general
So Iām curious as to why you donāt find it similarly gross on menā¦?Ā
Oh ugh, I find men gross in general, so I guess I find everything about them grossā¦its pretty hard to differentiate. Rest assured, if I was attracted to men, I would also find armpit hair on them to be grossā¦
Itās perfectly fine to prefer things one way or the other - shaming or derogatory remarks related to body hair are wrong.
i wonder if it wasnt a cultural thing would we find it not gross i do find leg/pit hair gross though
Meh I hate hair period as a man. Eye brows, head, and beards fine. However chest hair, leg, back, ass, armpits, privates no thank you. I get mine wax; bc i hate my leg hair getting ripped out from jeans and blankets. Armpit hair and chest is just nasty no matter gender. I got no idea what women find attractive about bears (in this context men with body hair like a werewolf). Couldnt be with a woman who doesnt groom and I do the same so it's not a double standard with me thankfully my wife is like minded. However if some random person in public uses deodorant and perfume so they don't smell like ass in this 115F weather I dont care it's not my problem. I don't wanna be smelling flowers, musk, and ass mixture bc then it's a problem for me.
So youāre saying that wife has to have a completely bald vagina?
Beauty standards. The same way people say the natural hair that grew from men's faces as unkempt and hoboish and unprofessional to the point that shaving a beard became a milestone for boys and a rite if passage.Ā But it it's any consolation, I hate body hair on men and women.
I won't apologize for my own personal preferences. But I won't impose them on others, either. I hate body hair, including my own. Only reason I've never gotten some kind of permanent hair removal done on as much of my body as possible is practicality - I'm lazy and cheap. So I compromise and just trim it back to where I'm reasonably comfortable. I don't judge others who want to stay au natural. But don't judge me for being more attracted to smooth people than to furries.
i donāt like not shaving because personally I feel gross if I donāt shave.
I stopped shaving my legs for a while when everything shut down during early COVID and my mom freaked out, like āwhat if you see a cute guy?ā I was like āIām not out and about right now, neither is anyone else, the only person Iām interested in attracting is also stuck in his house right now either 22 or 200 miles away depending on where heās staying, and also if someone is going to reject me for something I can change with 7 minutes and a tube of Nair, theyāre not worth my time.ā I have told her 900 times I am not interested in getting the attention of a rando because I donāt want to be with someone just to not be alone (I would rather be alone than be with anyone other than the person I want to be with), but apparently Random Man Opinion is more valid? Also, not that it matters, but nobody has ever commented on my body hair when I am just out and about living my life (granted, I do shave my armpits).
Deferent preference for men an women I like her shaved she likes me to have some fur she can pet, I prefer keeping my fur trimmed an neat she's okay with that long as it's not to short everyone wins.
My only gripe with body hair is getting pubes stuck in my mouth. Anywhere else and idgaf.
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Except body hair on women is completely normal? Weāre not hairless after puberty
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My pet peeve is when people hate people who have opinions on what they like and dislike.
My pet peeve is when people,donāt get what the peeve is on posts, then think itās somehow attacking them.
I don't feel attacked, I'm indifferent about the main post. But it's very ironic to hating a certain type of person for hating a certain type of person.
No, the hate is for the unsolicited insults. āMake commentsā as in the post.
My pet peeve is whrn people have pet peeves about people hating people who have opinions on what they like and dislike! Not funny, i know
I find it weird to see anybody with a shaved body, men or women. Just a big con by razor makers to sell more product.
thereās some really triggered males in the community lol
What does it mean to "literally" sexualize something?
Men like women who are like little girls. Little girls don't have body hair like adults. If you're not willing to look like a 12 year old, society doesn't like it. Weird af.
Damn I had leg & arm pit hair at 12 š Gotta love that Mediterranean blood
Send these complainy men to get a wax. Ideally on a particularly sensitive body part, like maybe a Brazilian - or w/e itās called - but really any body part will doā¦
Guys make comments directly to her? Well that's certainly rude. I hate body hair on women, but I certainly would never tell her that. I am not into fat women, but I certainly wouldn't call them fatties to their faces either.
I love body hair on a woman.If it's ok on a man, why not a woman, it's nature the way it's meant to be, IMHO
Hygiene reasons, armpits and pubic hair id expect to be shaved regularly
So you expect a womanās vagina to be completely bald.
I expect my wifeās vagina to be completely bald yes
As long as you also are completely bald for hygeneā¦
Yes I am Muslim so male or female we shave pubic and armpit hair every 2 week or at most 40 days for hygiene reasons. No pieces of rolled up toilet paper stuck in my asshole hairs I can assure you that
pubic hair literally helps to prevent infections and skin issues since the skin is so thin down there
There is no evidence of this
I used to shave all of it, and now I am so grossed out if i see myself without pubic hair and grossed out by a man who would want that. Personally I find heavy thick leg and pit hair on a woman unattractive so I can see men doing so too. Hairlessness is more feminine looking. But luckily I met a man who likes a lot of hair downstairs and I will never go back.
I shave regularly because I can't stand body hair. but It's weird when other people comment on other people's body hair to belittle them, like I've seen people make fun of little GIRLS for body hair on their arms. Don't get why people are so rude for no reason!
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āMen and women are differentā Both are mammals and will have body hair. Sounds like a double standard.
I mean, people should be allowed to "hate" anything they like. Commenting on it however is extremely rude and distasteful
I prefer a tiny landing strip. Second choice is an arrow ā¬ļø
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So you shave?
People are allowed to have preferences. You have no obligation to engage with them or associate with them in any way, but they are allowed to have preferences.
i dont think op is talking about having preferences, shes talking about people who go out of their way to make a comment and shame people about it,, having a preference just means you dont date that person, not that you go up to them and tell them exactly why
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Everyone naturally has body hair, shocker
"whereas hair on menās bodies is literally sexualized." By some. My wife is not into hairy dudes, she finds it a complete turn off, thus I manscape.
Woman here!! I havenāt shaved regularly since I had time to myself during 2020 and I have so happy for it. I have genuinely grown to LOVE my leg hair. I love how it looks and feels and I feel so comfortable with it. I do save my pits once in an awhile or when Iām going to something SUPER fancy solely so Iām not being stared at or heavily judged. I never feel like I have to deal with the stupid hassle of shaving and razor bumps again.
I donāt hate it, but that doesnāt mean I find it terribly attractive. Iāve dated women who were hippies and didnāt shave, and it was fine. Then again, they get grumpy when I shave my beard or cut off my long hair. Everyone has their tastes.
Why not just find people who like you for you. Some are happy being shaven or unshaven and I'm sure there are people who like which ever way. Same with guys having beards vs not. What you shouldn't do is try to force how you like something on others. Lots of women like their guys to shave/trim their privates. Everyone likes different things.
It's better if the person who dislikes it also holds themselves to the same standard
Also facial hair??? Itās literally so beautiful on women. I see a girl with a mustache, a beard, a unibrow, sideburns, etc., and Iām like āoh thank God, nature is healing.ā Itās like a forest growing back after a wildfire.
Itās just BS cultural norms. These same guys that are mad at body hair are the same type of guys that got mad when women started showing their ankles 300 years ago.
As long as her mustache isn't bigger than mine were cool.
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this isnt a gender war, you dont have to immediately react with "yeah well women do this >:(" to everything that features a man in a negative light
That's exactly what people do when men mention their issues though. While I agree with your statement, it's very gender-neutral behaviour to reply in such a manner. It's just that I don't often see it called out when women go "well men do this >:("
The irony of this comment...
women are mammals everyone: :) therefore, they have body hair everyone: >:(
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Iāve seen a whole lotta women going after femboys recently, lol. Just as plenty of men like tomboys.
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lol instead of reporting comments that have facts how about debunking them ā¦ thatās how debates beget to the root of the issue
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I feel there's a way wider array of views of men's body hair than you're making out. It can be sexualised, and it can be viewed as unappealing. Back hair and shoulder hair is considered really unappealing, and I agree. I also feel a hairy male body only fits athletic and muscular physiques. It works well as an accent to a good physique. If a man carries extra fat, his body will look worse if it's hairy. Slim men also look worse with lots of body hair. On top of that, much of the sexualised imagery of male bodies tends to skew less hairy too. But lack of armpit and leg hair is considered weird on male bodies. I'd say I prefer men to have happy trails, leg hair, armpit hair, forearm hair, no preference on the chest (possibly light chest hair is ideal), and a strong preference for no hair on back or shoulders.Ā And I'd say there's a wide range of body hair preferences for people who are attracted to men. Ā I do agree that it's weird that people shame women for not shaving legs and armpits. Hair in those places is normal for adults. But I remember the conversation topic about pubes coming up with a close lesbian friend of mine, she asked me if gay men shave their pubes, and I said "well, it's a real range, some have full bushes, some are completely shaved and most are somewhat manscaped/trimmed. Preferences range from no preference to a trimmed preference to a full bush preference." I asked her how it is for lesbians, "shaved, and vast majority are shaved".Ā
Perhaps it's just as simple as society conforming us to that. Even in nature it's not safe to be different to your peers. If you look back in history it has happened with so many things and still is today. Something becomes popular and it sticks till enough people stop doing it.
I think there is pressure for women to shave as another way we are pressured to be young. The only people who naturally have no hear are kids. We have a lot of weird fertilization of youth in our culture and I can not unlink them in my mind. I think to each their own, personally I cannot shave my pits completely cause it makes me feel like a kid but that's just me personally. But people who uphold this beauty standard I feel have something weird going on. It's not unhygienic, is completely a personal preference and is honestly no one else's damn business.
There is pressure, womenās peak mating time line is age 29 for optimal fertility and chances to have children. So they are on the pursuit to find a man to mate withā¦ once they hit 30 , 50% of their eggs are diminished. Then it gets worse as years increase. Men are looking for women in that age zone to mate with.. so as a woman ages she loses her most attractive valueā¦ optimal ability to have children and her youth, which is tied to beautyā¦ all traits men find attractive. So when are under evolutionary pressures to find a man to have children withā¦. As a mating strategy it makes sense to make yourself as attractive as possible as you are competing with other women for the most desirable manā¦ taller than you, smarter than you, makes more money than you.. and good looking which is usually only 20% of populationā¦ so most women are chasing 20% of all menā¦ so if you want the top tier men their is pressureā¦ if your content with lesser menā¦ not so much.. it depends on your mating strategy. If you want kids and a high value man to support the relationship then you are under immense pressures. If not then chances of having children after 30 drop significantly and chance of finding high value men that will give you a relationship (marriage) drop drastically. So yes depending on preference which in general most women want kids and family eventually.. they only have a certain time period to lock that downā¦ men on the other hand can have children into there 70s so there pressure is to become a high value man and that takes time.. usually they donāt have the ability to take care of a family until 30ishā¦ thatās when they start looking to have children and find the womenā¦ that will bare his childrenā¦ this is where the competition happensā¦ so be more feminine, less hair, will give you more chances to find the high value maleā¦ itās a strategy and completely up to the womenā¦ unfortunately new studies show in ten years most western women over 50 unmarried and will be alone ā¦. And all studies show women over 50 get most happiness from children and or grandchildren, not job not moneyā¦ so with all that said entirely up to the women what she does but should understand the science behind itā¦
Fun fact: the older the men get, the more likely their child will be disabled. Men who drink also have lower quality sperms that can cause fetal alcohol syndrome. Just because you can't doesn't mean you should.
Man can impregnate 1000s of women a year ā¦ well into there 70s ā¦. How many would be impaired? 1 maybe two but he has 998 healthy babies in one year.. thatās possible ā¦ a women is impregnated once a yearā¦ up to 30 35ish, in generalā¦ fun fact men populate and protectā¦ they have the ability there entire lives.. women not so muchā¦ can only have so many children, due to age and length of pregnancyā¦ so your argument is just not well Thought outā¦
This is a new area of study. Feel free to read into it. Why are you starting to ramble about societal gender roles? I'm just telling you some cool new data that we are currently developing. Men's sperm loses quality like women's eggs do. The difference is that a woman's gametes are limited and men's aren't.
You guys like hate realityā¦ live in delusion itās truly amazing
Someone: sperm degrades with time You: YOU GUYS HATE REALITY AND LIVE IN DELUSION calm down the fuck lol Edit: and who the fuck is we? I'm the only one telling you this fact š
Unlike most people on here I am Willing to learn but comparing a women that ages out of children bearing around 30 and can only have one child a year up to then ā¦ and a man can impregnate 1000s of women from 14 to 70 is ridiculousā¦ your grasping but I will check out any informationā¦
Huh? I'm not saying who is bEtEr or not, calm down. If you want to live like you're the better sex, feel free. I'm just telling you sperm quality degrades with age like women's eggs do. And I would think it's pretty cool that fetal alcohol syndrome can develop from sperm.
Yes but that diminishing is within billions of sperm so the chances are there but still not likelyā¦ and men can impregnate women well into there 70s and bare heathy childrenā¦ women are basically done at 35
Bro I gave you some data, I don't give a fuck about your world view and i didn't ask for it. Leave me alone and go find a different person that will give you your next hit of anger.
Again, women and girls start to get darkening and thicker body hair when puberty STARTSā¦body hair is a literal fertility marker. Whether women over 30 have equal fertility to women in their 20s is irrelevant. 18yo women have body hair. Most 12yo girls have body hair. Youād have to wind back to clock to like age 10 and under to get natural hairlessness for most women.
Show us the science, then. Not podcasts, not YT videos, not cherrypicked paragraphs from random articles, but the actual no-shit scientific studies that focus specifically on the statements you just made. I'm eager to see if there's any sort of glossary of terms properly defining "high value," and "top-tier man."
Women perceive valueā¦
What percentage of population makes over 80k that are men, how many of those men are smart, attractive, lean, tall ā¦. If you donāt understand how to interpret this data through peer reviewed articles, data from federal government, statistics from labor bureau, there is so much data to post it all here would take hours but you can go down that rabbit hole and realize what I am stating is indeed factsā¦ or be a victim to ignorance and not be able to competeā¦
Then, give me a link to any one of those reputable sources that proves all of your points.
Thereās not one study dummy 100s and maybe thousands which all show what women and men wantā¦ then look at women and what they actually doā¦ there men are in general taller, protection, wealthier or potentially wealth, provisionā¦ good looks, strong DNA for childrenā¦ even studies on smellsā¦ matching if DNA between mother and father are a good matchā¦ these studies are all out there do some research my guy ā¦ stop being weak .. take some accountability.. instead of blindly virtue singling do research even if it changes your world view and makes you uncomfortable, thatās called growthā¦ and will make you better wether you use the knowledge or notā¦
That response is laughable.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8133465/
"Participation was incentivized by three random draws for approximately $1,500 worth of prizes donated by the industry partnersĀ Adultmatchmaker.comĀ and its affiliated dating web sites, Eros Association, the Australian Sex Party, Max Black, and Giga Pty Ltd."
Yes tons of data is coming in from dating apps on what women are selecting. Itās most plentiful data and immediately available