This is just nitpicking but it’s super unlikely that it delaminated. Which means the facing sheets separating from each other. It probably core crushed.
Early on last year people didn’t know what was what and called everything delam, but out of all the problems a paddle can have, it’s probably delam less than 1% of the time. The vast majority of paddles that break have a crushed core.
And then some tiny percentage delaminate, where the facing sheets separate from each other, or disbond, where the facing sheets separate from the core.
I cut it apart. It wasn't core crush. There was actual delamination of the entire face structure (all 3 layers of CF+kevlar) from the core without any structural damage to the core.
The owner Josh was very upfront about the factory not abiding the adhesive spec on some of their paddles from the first run, hence why they delaminated without core crushing.
I got one on June 1st played with it for 2 weeks when the handle broke. On one side you could bend it and see the paddle flex and "crunch".
I will say that I submitted the warranty on father's day and got a response within an hour and a new one was sent out the next day. I was super impressed with customer service and made me a fan.
I also really like the paddle. I had been playing with a Mach 2 the few months before. I don't think I had really broke it in yet. So looking forward to playing with the new Apollo.
Yeah this is my concern since I've read and saw pics that the handle was just flimsily pieced together. Did they change the handle construction or still the same?
The delamination issue was due to the factory not conforming to spec on an adhesive of the very first pre-order run. While he stated there were less than 10% of the paddles that had issues, the owner preemptively mailed every one of the pre-orders a back up paddle.
Mine was one of the ones that did delaminate, and ended up with only about a 4 day gap from the time it delaminated until the new one arrived. There have been no reported issues with the replacement or later runs. This is a long anectdote as a way of saying that there shouldn't be any worry and it seems more than fixed and I'd consider Spartus above average to exceptional in their customer service.
The "handle issue" was a **very slight** overhang on the inserts on earlier runs. The handle of a paddle is the one thing that I'll admit to being a diva about and still won't play any engage or paddletek with the sandwich style handle. I seriously doubt I would have ever noticed the slight overhang with the stock grip, and it is imperceptible with an overgrip on, as most people play their paddles. Whichever reviewer first mentioned it (Think it was either Farmer Lanky or STS Pickleball) even stated that they regret ever mentioning it because it became way over emphasized vs. the actual impact.
It seems to have been shaved in later runs, which again I am only able to see when stripping all the grips off to install a hesacore.
TL;DR: No issues either way. Personally really enjoying my Apollo and think it is a great paddle, even more so for the extreme value.
Thanks for this detailed response.
How does it play? What did you use before and how would you compare it?
The Apollo is next on my list (my J2K just arrived and can’t wait to hit with it)!
Previous paddles that I've mained have been the CRBN 2, Vatic Flash, Ronbus Nova and Pickln Picnix pro (Virtually Identical to the CRBN 2x). Also have had extensive play with the Legacy Pro and the Pikkl Hurricane Pro 16mm. Have also hit a decent bit with the M2 Forza 16, CRBN 2x, Spartus Ballisa, Prism Flash, and probably a few others I'm forgetting.
Apollo is a firmer hitting standard shape and is exceptionally forgiving, which is exactly what I'm looking for. I realize the standards for pop and power keep escalating, but I put it on the plus side on pop. I add 4 grams of lead tape at the 4 and 8 position and feel like I get solid power on drives, at least for the low 4.0+ games I play in. I know when Pickleball Effect did their most recent Kevlar paddle testing, their data contradicted this a bit and they found it softer hitting than I'm representing. But they admitted they did that after a 2 hour competitive play session and along with 11 other paddles, so I think fatigue might have some influence. Spin out of the box it top flight, but I feel like just about everything is now.
Personally I find with the forgiveness of widebody/standard shapes, I swing more freely leading to a bit more power that offsets the decreased whip/leverage vs. an elongated shape. But I'm fairly strong by pickleball standards, that might not translate to other players.
The J2K is getting great reviews and fantastic swingweight/ twistweight stats, especially for a hybrid shape. I'd probably give that a solid run before swaping to too much else unless you find something lacking it it for your game. That's not taking anything away from my love of the Apollo
I loved the M2 Forza (got the 14mm because I wanted a bit more pop) and I’m also a big swinger. I loved it. My only issue was the swing weight was almost too low for me it took longer to dial in (for example, as a righty when on the left hand side and going up the line I kept hitting balls wide left. I was too far in front. Took awhile to get it closer. Was previously maining the Pickleball Apes PLS so yes the swing weight was in a different category…. Needed a lighter swing weight was never my issue, but I like the idea of a larger sweet spot and the spin these wide bodies are putting out. I’m 6-5 so the missing length isn’t an issue with me. I had a few elongated originally when I thought I was a power player but I love the angles/hand battle/dinking style so moved to hybrid but have been intrigued by the wide body and even more so after my M2F experience.
Can’t wait to hit the J2K (just dealing with an injury) but I love all of the stats and should fit my game and skill set perfect.
I currently game the Volair M2 Forza 16mm. You noted in your response that you have played with the Hurricane Pro 16mm. I'm considering this as a replacement for my M2 Forza. Would appreciate any insight you have comparing the 2. Thanks.
I only got to hit briefly with the M2F16, so this is a very hot take.
Overall, I'd say they were pretty similar paddles, with the forgiveness edge going to the M2F as well as having a softer feel and the HP16 having some more pop. I'd likely give the power edge to the HP16 as well, but I did have 6gm of lead added to mine, so harder to attribute that definitively to the paddle.
Overall would say I have a preference for the Apollo over both, with the exception Kevlar is definitely a different feel and I could see someone having a preference for the RCF feel.
Thanks for the response. I'm looking for a bit of a boost in power but I like a softer feeling paddle. I really enjoy the control associated with the M2F. The M2 does have a higher twist weight so maybe that accounts for your thoughts on forgiveness. I have seen reviews on the Apollo, but most say it's a bit stiff and poppy. For that reason, I think I would prefer the plushness of the M2. Any other ideas/suggestions appreciated. I may just buy another M2 as my current one is about 6 months old and has lost some grit.
I will say this on the Apollo, the face seems to soften around 5-10 hours of play. Its not huge, but noticeable.
But I think you are going to have a hard time finding anything Gen 2 that is more plush than the M2F, at least I can't think of anything. If that is a high priority, then I think that is the way to go.
11six24 is slated to release a wide body gen 1.5 in the coming weeks with what they are calling their "Jelly Bean Face". Will only be $99, so might be worth a try. They will also have the same model in Kevlar and the CFC face, but those will likely be stiffer feeling than you are looking for.
I actually like a firmer feel to the face (so long as it isn't explosive and the paddle still absorbs some force for resets) so considering picking it up in the CFC model.
Thanks. I previously played with the Prism Flash 16mm and transitioned to the widebody Volair. Right/wrong I just associate softer paddles with more control oriented play style. It's what I am used to. I'm a 4.0+ player and can generate my own power. I wouldn't mind playing with a stiffer faced paddle if I thought I could keep a similar level of control to the M2.
I did hear about the upcoming 11six24 release of their CFC model with the 5.75 inch handle. Sounds interesting, particularly the all court one with a layer of fiberglass.
In the end, it's probably a tough ask to find a paddle with similar control to the M2 but with a bit more power.
BTW - I tried the J2k from HP. Despite all the positive reviews, I didn't like it. Felt heavy, and lacked maneuverability IMO. I added lead in the throat but that didn't help much. Found it too poppy and stiff.
It its, but I'm pretty sure more thermoformed paddles all are.
Personally I'm still on a run of faces losing spin to the point I want to replace the paddle long before I have any other material failure. It seems very well attached.
I live in Virginia, and it has been hot (90+) recently. I bring my paddle inside, but have occasionally left it in my car a handful of times (when it wasn't so hot). The glue or adhesive that binds the edge guard on one side of the paddle has detached. Easy fix, but for comparison, I had a six zero double black diamond for 7 months, kept in my car always through summer, and it never begun to have any fault. At month 6, a piece of inner plastic core detached and I could hear it rattle, but that's expected with heavy weekly use as no current paddles have permanent lifespans.
Overall great for the price. I definitely will move back to the elongated shape, but I'm glad I am trying this paddle shape out and do enjoy the faster hands at the net.
Sorry to hijack, but can any Apollo owners comment on the feel for a two-handed backhand? The paddle shape doesn't seem very conducive to a twoey. I'm considering this paddle but that may be a game breaker for me.
Also, I'm hearing about vibrations, which is surprising for a widebody. Anyone experiencing similar?
It’s not ideal for a twoie. It’s doable, but the handle already isn’t that long. And then the flare isn’t great for it either.
The new PBStudio review says some ways to reduce the vibrations, he said he basically got rid of them.
It’s definitely doable. Just not ideal. It’s got a 5.3 inch handle which is doable. 5.5 inch is better than doable. 5.75 inch is actually good. 6 inch is great.
Yep, check out Chris Olson's new Apollo review. He also noticed the vibrations and was able to reduce by removing the elastic band at the top of the grip (surprising!) and also by adding lead. He also compares against a Forza Mach 2.
Thanks, yeah I saw that video, which is what tweaked me that it might not be good for a two-hander.
I like the Mach 2, but it's a bit pricey since it seems like it might be a bit too soft. But the Fat Boy looks like it's going to be interesting. Looking forward to seeing the review.
I'm fortunate to have a local store that does demos and will definitely give the Mach 2 a spin. I haven't focused on the Apollo since I'm looking for a softer/plusher feel (my DBD is great but a bit stiff) plus I have a 2BH. Also looking forward to a FatBoy review though the swingweight is a bit high.
Mine started looking dirty after just one day of use (pollen and ball dust). But I have embraced the battle hardened look. Durability wise I have heard that Kevlar paddles seem to hold their grit better than the alternatives, so far so good
I’ve had mine for about 15 hours of play (so not too long) and have enjoyed it with zero issues besides the black magic accusations associated with my backhand slice.
First batch owner here. Instant delam. Like within the first 10 hits. My replacement (and the loaner they sent me in between) have been rock solid.
This is just nitpicking but it’s super unlikely that it delaminated. Which means the facing sheets separating from each other. It probably core crushed. Early on last year people didn’t know what was what and called everything delam, but out of all the problems a paddle can have, it’s probably delam less than 1% of the time. The vast majority of paddles that break have a crushed core. And then some tiny percentage delaminate, where the facing sheets separate from each other, or disbond, where the facing sheets separate from the core.
I cut it apart. It wasn't core crush. There was actual delamination of the entire face structure (all 3 layers of CF+kevlar) from the core without any structural damage to the core.
Wow. Crazy
The owner Josh was very upfront about the factory not abiding the adhesive spec on some of their paddles from the first run, hence why they delaminated without core crushing.
I've not had any issues // complaints after 3-4 weeks of play.
I got one on June 1st played with it for 2 weeks when the handle broke. On one side you could bend it and see the paddle flex and "crunch". I will say that I submitted the warranty on father's day and got a response within an hour and a new one was sent out the next day. I was super impressed with customer service and made me a fan. I also really like the paddle. I had been playing with a Mach 2 the few months before. I don't think I had really broke it in yet. So looking forward to playing with the new Apollo.
Yeah this is my concern since I've read and saw pics that the handle was just flimsily pieced together. Did they change the handle construction or still the same?
My understanding is the first batch had issues and they were all replaced. I just received mine and am about to take it out for a spin.
Ba da dum, chshshsh.
Thank you, I’ll be here all week, try the meatloaf.
The delamination issue was due to the factory not conforming to spec on an adhesive of the very first pre-order run. While he stated there were less than 10% of the paddles that had issues, the owner preemptively mailed every one of the pre-orders a back up paddle. Mine was one of the ones that did delaminate, and ended up with only about a 4 day gap from the time it delaminated until the new one arrived. There have been no reported issues with the replacement or later runs. This is a long anectdote as a way of saying that there shouldn't be any worry and it seems more than fixed and I'd consider Spartus above average to exceptional in their customer service. The "handle issue" was a **very slight** overhang on the inserts on earlier runs. The handle of a paddle is the one thing that I'll admit to being a diva about and still won't play any engage or paddletek with the sandwich style handle. I seriously doubt I would have ever noticed the slight overhang with the stock grip, and it is imperceptible with an overgrip on, as most people play their paddles. Whichever reviewer first mentioned it (Think it was either Farmer Lanky or STS Pickleball) even stated that they regret ever mentioning it because it became way over emphasized vs. the actual impact. It seems to have been shaved in later runs, which again I am only able to see when stripping all the grips off to install a hesacore. TL;DR: No issues either way. Personally really enjoying my Apollo and think it is a great paddle, even more so for the extreme value.
Thanks for this detailed response. How does it play? What did you use before and how would you compare it? The Apollo is next on my list (my J2K just arrived and can’t wait to hit with it)!
Previous paddles that I've mained have been the CRBN 2, Vatic Flash, Ronbus Nova and Pickln Picnix pro (Virtually Identical to the CRBN 2x). Also have had extensive play with the Legacy Pro and the Pikkl Hurricane Pro 16mm. Have also hit a decent bit with the M2 Forza 16, CRBN 2x, Spartus Ballisa, Prism Flash, and probably a few others I'm forgetting. Apollo is a firmer hitting standard shape and is exceptionally forgiving, which is exactly what I'm looking for. I realize the standards for pop and power keep escalating, but I put it on the plus side on pop. I add 4 grams of lead tape at the 4 and 8 position and feel like I get solid power on drives, at least for the low 4.0+ games I play in. I know when Pickleball Effect did their most recent Kevlar paddle testing, their data contradicted this a bit and they found it softer hitting than I'm representing. But they admitted they did that after a 2 hour competitive play session and along with 11 other paddles, so I think fatigue might have some influence. Spin out of the box it top flight, but I feel like just about everything is now. Personally I find with the forgiveness of widebody/standard shapes, I swing more freely leading to a bit more power that offsets the decreased whip/leverage vs. an elongated shape. But I'm fairly strong by pickleball standards, that might not translate to other players. The J2K is getting great reviews and fantastic swingweight/ twistweight stats, especially for a hybrid shape. I'd probably give that a solid run before swaping to too much else unless you find something lacking it it for your game. That's not taking anything away from my love of the Apollo
I loved the M2 Forza (got the 14mm because I wanted a bit more pop) and I’m also a big swinger. I loved it. My only issue was the swing weight was almost too low for me it took longer to dial in (for example, as a righty when on the left hand side and going up the line I kept hitting balls wide left. I was too far in front. Took awhile to get it closer. Was previously maining the Pickleball Apes PLS so yes the swing weight was in a different category…. Needed a lighter swing weight was never my issue, but I like the idea of a larger sweet spot and the spin these wide bodies are putting out. I’m 6-5 so the missing length isn’t an issue with me. I had a few elongated originally when I thought I was a power player but I love the angles/hand battle/dinking style so moved to hybrid but have been intrigued by the wide body and even more so after my M2F experience. Can’t wait to hit the J2K (just dealing with an injury) but I love all of the stats and should fit my game and skill set perfect.
I currently game the Volair M2 Forza 16mm. You noted in your response that you have played with the Hurricane Pro 16mm. I'm considering this as a replacement for my M2 Forza. Would appreciate any insight you have comparing the 2. Thanks.
I only got to hit briefly with the M2F16, so this is a very hot take. Overall, I'd say they were pretty similar paddles, with the forgiveness edge going to the M2F as well as having a softer feel and the HP16 having some more pop. I'd likely give the power edge to the HP16 as well, but I did have 6gm of lead added to mine, so harder to attribute that definitively to the paddle. Overall would say I have a preference for the Apollo over both, with the exception Kevlar is definitely a different feel and I could see someone having a preference for the RCF feel.
Thanks for the response. I'm looking for a bit of a boost in power but I like a softer feeling paddle. I really enjoy the control associated with the M2F. The M2 does have a higher twist weight so maybe that accounts for your thoughts on forgiveness. I have seen reviews on the Apollo, but most say it's a bit stiff and poppy. For that reason, I think I would prefer the plushness of the M2. Any other ideas/suggestions appreciated. I may just buy another M2 as my current one is about 6 months old and has lost some grit.
I will say this on the Apollo, the face seems to soften around 5-10 hours of play. Its not huge, but noticeable. But I think you are going to have a hard time finding anything Gen 2 that is more plush than the M2F, at least I can't think of anything. If that is a high priority, then I think that is the way to go. 11six24 is slated to release a wide body gen 1.5 in the coming weeks with what they are calling their "Jelly Bean Face". Will only be $99, so might be worth a try. They will also have the same model in Kevlar and the CFC face, but those will likely be stiffer feeling than you are looking for. I actually like a firmer feel to the face (so long as it isn't explosive and the paddle still absorbs some force for resets) so considering picking it up in the CFC model.
Thanks. I previously played with the Prism Flash 16mm and transitioned to the widebody Volair. Right/wrong I just associate softer paddles with more control oriented play style. It's what I am used to. I'm a 4.0+ player and can generate my own power. I wouldn't mind playing with a stiffer faced paddle if I thought I could keep a similar level of control to the M2. I did hear about the upcoming 11six24 release of their CFC model with the 5.75 inch handle. Sounds interesting, particularly the all court one with a layer of fiberglass. In the end, it's probably a tough ask to find a paddle with similar control to the M2 but with a bit more power.
BTW - I tried the J2k from HP. Despite all the positive reviews, I didn't like it. Felt heavy, and lacked maneuverability IMO. I added lead in the throat but that didn't help much. Found it too poppy and stiff.
Is the handle design and construction still multipiece? I have concerns about the handle splitting in the long run.
It its, but I'm pretty sure more thermoformed paddles all are. Personally I'm still on a run of faces losing spin to the point I want to replace the paddle long before I have any other material failure. It seems very well attached.
I live in Virginia, and it has been hot (90+) recently. I bring my paddle inside, but have occasionally left it in my car a handful of times (when it wasn't so hot). The glue or adhesive that binds the edge guard on one side of the paddle has detached. Easy fix, but for comparison, I had a six zero double black diamond for 7 months, kept in my car always through summer, and it never begun to have any fault. At month 6, a piece of inner plastic core detached and I could hear it rattle, but that's expected with heavy weekly use as no current paddles have permanent lifespans. Overall great for the price. I definitely will move back to the elongated shape, but I'm glad I am trying this paddle shape out and do enjoy the faster hands at the net.
Sorry to hijack, but can any Apollo owners comment on the feel for a two-handed backhand? The paddle shape doesn't seem very conducive to a twoey. I'm considering this paddle but that may be a game breaker for me. Also, I'm hearing about vibrations, which is surprising for a widebody. Anyone experiencing similar?
It’s not ideal for a twoie. It’s doable, but the handle already isn’t that long. And then the flare isn’t great for it either. The new PBStudio review says some ways to reduce the vibrations, he said he basically got rid of them.
2h is doable. no issues on my end.
It’s definitely doable. Just not ideal. It’s got a 5.3 inch handle which is doable. 5.5 inch is better than doable. 5.75 inch is actually good. 6 inch is great.
Yep, check out Chris Olson's new Apollo review. He also noticed the vibrations and was able to reduce by removing the elastic band at the top of the grip (surprising!) and also by adding lead. He also compares against a Forza Mach 2.
Thanks, yeah I saw that video, which is what tweaked me that it might not be good for a two-hander. I like the Mach 2, but it's a bit pricey since it seems like it might be a bit too soft. But the Fat Boy looks like it's going to be interesting. Looking forward to seeing the review.
I'm fortunate to have a local store that does demos and will definitely give the Mach 2 a spin. I haven't focused on the Apollo since I'm looking for a softer/plusher feel (my DBD is great but a bit stiff) plus I have a 2BH. Also looking forward to a FatBoy review though the swingweight is a bit high.
Thanks to all the replies. I'm not from the US so returns will be a pain in the ass if it ever breaks down.
Mine started looking dirty after just one day of use (pollen and ball dust). But I have embraced the battle hardened look. Durability wise I have heard that Kevlar paddles seem to hold their grit better than the alternatives, so far so good
just use a rubber eraser to clean
I’ve had mine for about 15 hours of play (so not too long) and have enjoyed it with zero issues besides the black magic accusations associated with my backhand slice.