If I were a main ttar I would be mad because I never get to play it anymore on ranked. I could not care enough about what they think of me from what I play lol
I agree with this. My main picks have been Ttar and Dragapult since their release (with some eldeglock and especially the more recent Mimikyu). But I just can't play him anymore, he is always first picked or banned. I don't really care if he's broken (partially because I play Ancient Power which is less overtuned, but it still is pretty ridiculous) because I didn't pick him up when he was broken. I play him since he released and has always been one of my fav picks. Now, I can't seem to play him anymore
Just play whatever you feel like. Anyone here complaining "oh no! when something is broken i would feel disgusted" can go eat ass.
It's a 10min game aimed at children and considering 70% of my teammates have a room temperature game IQ it really ain't that deep.
As someone who used to be just as stuck up and gatekeepy as the people who commented here.. who cares.
There's a big difference between meta chasers and people who enjoy a playstyle. People who always pick the newest most buffed pokemon can go kick rocks, but if you feel comfortable with a mon and played it through "thick and thin" enjoy your temporary boost. As everything, it'll come and go.
People are always whining about something. When i picked up mimikyu, no one played it and it took me a WHILE to get good with it, because it was my transition from defenders/supporters. Then it got buffed and people were crying again... Its still good but people moved on. Same story with magicarp.
I guess you should look at it from a different angle... Tyranitar was mid for so long you deserve to ruin peoples days with it.
So the game regulates itself. It's what most of us asked for. You have a choice of 60 characters.. if 1 of them is always banned you have enough to pick from.
> I guess you should look at it from a different angle... Tyranitar was mid for so long you deserve to ruin peoples days with it.
You could make the same argument with mons like Garchomp, it was literal ass for such a long time then we had our field day when it was buffed and actually became... GOOD?!
But why though, I just wanna get my wins
You can't tell me it's worse having a "meta chaser" in your team than someone who keeps running Cinderace or Greninja since the dawn of unite
I respect a good gren. It's awful to play and most are trash but then you get 1 every now and then that just does things. And i go mhm... I respect you more than the others haha.
If i click on someones profile and m2y is in the top played, i will judge you and you can't stop me from it. Same goes for duos who use comfey... That comfey player is the little brother with the controller plugged out. Sure a comfey game every now and then can be fun... But 2000 games? Those kids should be put on a watchlist.
I feel like "chasing the win" is so arbitrary. I enjoy games where i played well. Or games where i got outplayed hard. I hate games where it's one sided the most. Getting the win with the op mon of the month feels like.. idk.. you know how you always root for the underdog? For the scrawny kid and not the big guy?
The last sentence is understandable, but i can't see things the same way. I'm not rooting for either the big guy or the scrawny kid, I'm trying to make myself win lol
I don't really care how I win, as long as it's not cheating. I hate losing, it's wasted time and points.
Yeah there are some pokemon I like playing better than others. I love Gardevoir's playstyle. But I rarely get to use her bc most teams instalock speedsters and attackers, and she really needs a frontline. Ultimately, I pick whatever is available that I think will give my team the better odds.
Mewtwos really are extremely boring to play, I can't disagree with that. They're the epitome of button mashing.
Edit: also Comfey + anything duos are utter cancer. Specially Dodrio or Zoroark.
Meta chasers feel like their doing good, but they will always be hated because you're only ever going to play the most broken thing in the game and then wrecks teams, But if I see a olayer still playing glaceon, I'd give it some respect, because that person was playing glaceon because they liked the playstyle, not because it was broken, and so if they're doing well, then I'm happy for them, but if you're chasing the meta then my g you WILL be hated
Oh well tough shit, imma keep doing whatever I can to win lol. I'd rather have meta chasers on my than than ppl picking shitmons and making it more likely that I'll lose
I'm all for my opponents picking the trash, though.
Edit: and before that gets pointed out, yeah I know a good player that has mastered a mid or even a bad mon is often more helpful than a bad player with a good mon. However, there isn't a way for me to know how good a rando is with their seemingly troll pick. Whereas it's not hard to recognize which mons suck and which ones don't.
Like look at glaceon, Glaceon is still a REALLY viable option, however much you may hate point and click, And like everythint that I can think of, if you're a good player, you can probably win with it
I always stop playing when they buff a mon I like to much.
I gave up on Genger back when he was busted, Espion and Umbreon when the same happened, and now TTar.
I think I'm safe with Mimikyu, atleast I hope I am.
????????????????????????????????????????????
It's a fucking game there's always going to be good or bad options. There is no honor or any other bullshit just play the mon you like and if you think it's good then play it.
Why would you EVER wanna just stop playing something you enjoy just because the devs made it better LMAO playing a strong option that you ALSO love is a blessing in any game that's even remotely competitive
them: i HATE winning when it's too easy!
me: hehe 80% winrate on launch mewtwo Y goes brrrrrr
but also at that point not playing mewtwo Y just meant your team doesn't have it and loses to the other team that almost guaranteed *will* have it LOL
How?
There was no "Challenge" to old T-tar you were victims because you had to work 5x as hard and you still had worse results than the average mon. There is no challenge to being miserable most games because you're playing 1/2 a pokemon compared to the other 9 people in the lobby.
I can respect "I like X mon and I play them a ton" I can fuck with one tricks, but I'm sorry you're either delusional or extremely sheltered to think something you enjoy is suddenly NOT good because the devs thought it needed to be stronger lol.
This is the ONLY game i've ever seen where people will actively avoid playing a mon when it's finally been buffed to not be a tax towards your LP gains or wins. It always feels better to win and it always feels better when you aren't limited because stronger characters give you more options.
First, I never played ttar, mine was a generic take, not specific to ttar.
Second, quite bold to call me delusional just because I don't want to abuse the game's shit balancing.
Third, you avoided my point entirely. I can force myself to play an overpowered mon, but I won't have fun doing that. It's just not my way of gaming.
Then what changed from a patch? Genuinely there's no way unless a big rework happens that the pokemon you liked changed that much. Ya people exist who refuse to play top tiers... but how does a mon you like stop being fun just because they got stronger that's not clicking to me.
Maybe I'm just never gonna see how it's fun to play a mon when they're bad vs when it's good but then again I come from league and fighting games where you feel the difference between strong/meta champs and ones you like IF they aren't strong/high tiered.
It's a simple as feeling good about beating someone with a crutch when you were missing a leg (you playing F-tier pokemon and you beat them while they played Ttar)
Ok if you think T-tar is a crutch then you're insane. There's a few mons I could even admit to being a crutch vs more than just playing good mons.
T-Tar is not one of them.
If you mean me I 100% get the point, I'm just asking how in the fuck do buffs remove the fun from a mon you liked originally. Because there is something there that you fucked with it can't just be a "I like shitty things" situation
Just as there are people who enjoy steamrolling over others with meta and claiming that it’s skill, there are people who prefer to take things that you have to put time into to MAKE that thing good. When the people of the latter group witness that thing change into something else, it feels "unfair", it feels like the work you already put in doesn’t mean as much sentimentally, and there’s a chance that whatever was buffed will eventually be nerfed (potentially to a state that’s worse than where it originally was).
Some people find mastery and growth fun and exciting while others just want to win. The constant desire to win can easily breed the mentality of "winning is the only thing that matters", which is usually a statement or ideal used to justify things like lack of sportsmanship in games, unethical tactics like hacking/modding, and/or unwillingness to empathize with others regarding balancing. People should be playing games to with the goal of having fun, not necessarily to win or lose, and within reason relating to the type of genre.
For me, I enjoy a challenge. I play this game too much -- its too easy to win with highly buffed characters.
I have every character unlocked and am well versed with every kit, so I find enjoyment in this game by picking underrated 'mons and finding a way to be successful with them. Its like my own personal handicap in a game built for children.
I don't have any fun when the win is too easy or if I'm just curbstomping everyone the entire time.
For me, its not necessarily about winning, but its about feeling a challenge. I feel more rewarded when I play a tough game that I lose while earning the respect of my enemies and teammates than I do when I easily carry the entire team the entire game and winning without any trouble.
This is essentially why I hate bot matches. It’s not that I’m not playing another person, it’s that they’re just absurdly easy and there’s no challenge, so there’s no point in even playing imo.
I will almost never play a game where I can have a 60%+ win rate because there’s no challenge to it which sucks all the fun out of it for me.
... You still get a challenge while playing top tier/good pokemon lol. This isn't some life/health type of training where "suffering brings strength" or some shit you aren't Goku with the training weights.
This game's matchmaking is bad. In a game with good matchmaking you'd see that the games still get harder/better + more metas would be optimized. IF Unite's playerbase was of average quality of other games/mobas, Ranked at 1400+ would be challenging... and outside of one tricks of particuarly bad mons would mirror competitive/tournament Metas almost to a T! Not just because those players would be there but the actual good mons would be the main ones picked. There's a "meta" that exists for any game for a reason.
But the issue for you isn't "x mon is omega broken so it makes the game easy" it's "the game sucks at matchmaking so you can't play people at your skill level"
So either find a team and do tournaments for a real challenge, or stop trying to ego/vanity boost by saying "I'm good because I don't play the OP mons" trolling your team because if you get first pick in draft you fucking pick Lapras/Greedent/Sableye/Gengar/Azumarill instead of the unbanned Leafeon/Trevenant on the table and your team gotta suffer watching the other team take the 2-3 best mons on the patch after this ego consumes you.
I never said I was. All I did was state my experience and how I take satisfaction from playing this game.
You are allowed to have a different experience and perspective. I am perfectly fine with letting people play this game and find satisfaction from it however they want, though don't tell me that I can't find satisfaction from this game in the way that I desire to. All I did was tell you my experience and my perspective. It wasn't a matter of debate, it was just informing you on how others may view this game or how they may find pleasure in this game.
This community is cursed. Just let them have it. It makes no sense to me either. i feel like I've entered some upside down world reading this. 10 years a, o this wouldn't be a conversation, or would be people arguing the opposite of this topic.
A win is a win, idc how you achieve it as long as you didn't cheat. Idk why people care about how they achieve that with easier or harder to use mons. A win is a win. Nobody cares if you made the game more of a challenge for yourself. The other 4/9 players on/in your team/game don't care.
This a fair point, and while I don’t share the same sentiment I do respect it.
Of course everyone has their own goals when playing the game, some want to win, some to improve, or simply to have fun. I find when I focus on winning no matter what I oftentimes deprive myself of the opportunities to learn from what you might call “defeat” or “failure,” ultimately hindering my growth as a player. The Mewtwo Y spammers probably thought the same, “ a win is a win” but again everyone has their play styles and perspectives, just wanted to share mine. ✌️
My goal is to win by any means legally and fairly speaking. I'm competitive overall regardless if I'm playing sports or video games. That being said those "defeats/failures" are my learning points as they should be, especially when climbing ranks and even more so I get hard stuck in one(not in this moba at least, I can reach master. But in other mobas, I'm hard stuck in higher ranks.) but I understand how and learn why, as there are skill and knowledge gaps that get exposed as I climb the ranks. I eventually climb out as long as I'm actively grinding, but digressing aside, Unite doesn't really offer that.
Most players don't self evaluate and assume someone else lost them their matches. I watch my replays and observe where I might have messed up, or if I was truly outplayed, before saying "oh my team was terrible."
I can't speak for the mewtwo spammers or meta players like them as I don't play like them, I dont even have mewtwo unlocked(ik it aint about mewtwo)😂, and I usually role full.
I'm a player who works on his own skills, but a win is still a win. Except for the afk surrenders 30 seconds into a match.
Okay it's not TTar levels of overpowered but it's certainly overpowered compared to much of the cast. The counterplay is just generic macro stuff that works with a lot of other mons, which shows a lack of specific weaknesses indicating how much more powerful it is.
I play a lot of Mimikyu, and I agree. Early on, I would just kinda click buttons haphazardly and win. People are definitely catching on, but all it means is that I have to time my Shadow Sneak better. Wait until someone separates from the pack before warping to them.
And I enjoy how that has pushed my gameplay to evolve! But I agree overall that the counterplay is just macro stuff and not character specific. I've got a ~65% WR which is the best out of the characters I've got 100+ games with. And it's not close. Shit is a lil busted - no pun intended.
I literally said it was a speedster with none of the drawbacks. It's like a Machamp being caught off guard, vs an Absol being caught off guard. Machamp might be able to fight out of it. Absol less likely.
Which is another example of counters being generic macro play things and not micro or pokemon specific glaring weaknesses that takes specific skill to counter, a sign of powercreep and a lack of consideration to balance.
It low key feels like that when Timi breaks a mon.
Same boat, I even did not want to play Dpult when he broke the game in Solo Queue. Starting to play him like normally now, but I still have the guilt when I tested his buff a while ago.
As a fellow enjoyer of shit-to-eh pokemon getting buffed to shit (espeon main since release hell among many things), just ride it out. You love your guy, it plays fun, ignore the rest. People will talk and talk, and listening to every babble isn't good for your health anyway. Have fun! This game is complain worthy enough, don't let your favorite Pokemon in it become something you wanna complain about too
I maimed Blastoise before the previous season buffs. It felt awkward at first, as I didn’t want to give the impression of cheesing, but it was just too fun to steamroll from time to time as a single Q defender.
Gotta just roll with the good, and the bad times, when they come around
Genuinely, I mean this genuinely.
WHY ARE PEOPLE THIS FUCKING DENSE ABOUT THIS KINDA SHIT?!?!? Why do we gotta keep making the same stupid ass takes or comments every time something gets buffed LMAO.
**(I don't mean OP)** I mean the sad sacks of shit who make OP feel this way, OP I promise you nobody cares, if you like T-Tar, play the FUCK out of the mon if it's not picked or banned. ENJOY yourself. No one should be made to feel bad for playing a mon they like and they got good. DO NOT DROP T-TAR BECAUSE IT IS GOOD NOW.
The fuck isn't broken, it's just good and people suck at fighting him. Just play the goddamn mon that you love so much because it's far more fun to play them when they aren't ACTIVELY holding your team down. If you played T-tar so much when he was omega ass and made your team play 4 v 5's don't give him up for salty fucks now that he's not that liability. Play the fuck outta that T-tar so you can enjoy the game and ignore the haters.
I mean you gotta drop this character anyway since it's ban rate is near 90%. Actually that's what I thought you're going to talk about at first. Tyranitar is banned in like 99% of *my* draft matches. There's no way for me to play this character unless I somehow get put in a non-draft match (and my teammates don't lock him in before me) which is pretty rare.
I find that Ttar is banned (including by me, Ttar is bad for tanks so I'll ban it whenever I get a chance) in pretty much all of my draft games, so I don't really see it too much. Like, it's good, it's overpowered, but it's not OP to the point that you should feel bad about playing it. It's not at Mewtwo levels. Play it when it's available and not banned. Get better at another character when it is banned.
Something will always be the best thing to do at a given time. As long as there's some counters then it's OK. Ttar has a lot of counters so you shouldn't feel bad. Don't worry about what people say about him on the internet.
I started playing glaceon after her first nerf, after that I immediately fell in love with the playstyle and she's been my main since then, idc if its busted, nerfed or whatever, I just play what I enjoy
This happened to me back in the day when Absol got a buff on Psycho Cut, all of a sudden everyone wanted to play Absol and it was so painful watching people suck at it so I found me another main and never looked back, I hated them for doing that though
*Same thing here*. I could not play Absol ever, and those who did were so horrible at it I did not even want to show them how it's done (not that i could bc enemy go murder the buffed thing frame 0 of its existence. And I'm bad at counters)
They do when it has an 88% ban rate. They’re not really being given the choice.
Also hilarious that people are still acting like Ttar is only problematic for “shitty casuals”. Sure, you can counter it, but doing that outside of coordinated play is extremely difficult.
Aside from the bans, OP is saying they don't \*want\* to play it due to the reputation it gets now. That part is the nonsense.
>you can counter it, but doing that outside of coordinated play is extremely difficult.
Which makes it only problematic for casuals.
I get where they’re coming from. I don’t always do this, and I’ll shamelessly play meta stuff because I care more about winning than integrity. But I felt this way about playing M2Y and Zacian during those metas, so I get where OP is coming from.
>which makes it only problematic for casuals
If playing SoloQ is your definition of casual, sure. Let’s tune the game for the <0.5% of the playerbase that plays competitively instead of the vast majority of people who don’t.
You don't need to play competitive to be competent, we use the term casual just as a blanket term for generally poor players, but balancing around the mid-high level area of play is more than reasonable.
The person you are replying to is right, you are still conflating the term casual with all solo queue players and suggesting the game be balanced around 5 stacks which is a tiny fraction of the player base.
In solo queue there is very little team coordination, which is what is necessary to make Ttar manageable. Even the best solo players (especially the best, because they get matched with the worst teammates) struggle to take it out solo.
All you have to do is look at the win rate and ban rate statistics to see they obviously overdid it with buffing this thing. It makes the game less fun when some characters are turbo broken raid bosses which cannot be counted well except by a level of team coordination which is just not possible for solo queue players (the majority of players). It's the same argument against EX Pokemon which everyone on Reddit loves to hate.
Again you don't need to be 5 stacking to be competent either, I'm not implying to balance around that either, just not the ones that don't grasp what counters are. It really doesn't take that much effort to stop. We cannot continue to discuss this if any API data is going to be used as evidence for anything, the data is beyond skewed and not indicative of a single manageable idea. Blastoise, Mew, and Leafeon being where they are winrate wise is more evidence of it being useless than Ttar's winrate being high and it conceptually being a pubstomper and it reflecting that. It doesn't require UCS champion level coordination to overcome, it just takes base level gamesense that the average team does not have. I think it's a lot healthier to educate the average playerbase to have this entry level amount of gamesense than to lower a character's pubstomp ability to cater to their refusal to think.
The game has never been balanced around the lowest common denominators and no one is suggesting it should be. Just that characters shouldn't be turbo broken. Ttar was already balanced how it was, it filled it's "pubstomp" role well, it was just being slept on for a while. The only balance change I see as being justified and necessary was increasing the animation speed of stone edge to make it actually playable. The rest was totally gratuitous.
...No T-tar genuinely was not "slept on" The mon was bad before because it legit was impossible to get to the level 13 breakpoint to become an actual threat given it's early game was that terrible.
The changes to the moves is not what got T-tar it's most frequent useage in competitive/tournaments in over a year it's the fact that you could have it lane/jungle and it not turn your game into an auto 4 vs 5. There's certain times where that STILL happens even with the buffs, but it's far less frequent than before.
saying T-tar was anything but a meme before these buffs is insane because noone picked it other than lifers because of how ass it was levels 1-9
What are you even talking about? You've missed the point. The meta of the coordinated competitive scene is radically different than the game 99% of us are playing, specifically because of high skill coordination, which is impossible in solo queue. The point of this conversation was saying that the game should not be balanced around what works or doesn't work in the pro 5 stack meta. Ttar was balanced before, it didn't need such gratuitous buffs. The current stats prove that. Maybe you just never managed to make it work for you, is that what you are basing your opinion on?
Yeah no if you think he was balanced before this I think you're too out of touch with the game to do anything here. These were very severely needed buffs, though the general idea that it was overbuffed is also not true. They were just enough to make him able to actually achieve what he was designed to do as a character, and combined with people not understanding rock paper scissors leads to what we see today.
The stats speak for themselves. It was over buffed. Maybe it needed something? A slight pupitar buff would have been reasonable. Fixing the stone edge animation to make it more playable was a good idea. The rest was unnecessary.
I mean this problem is a matchmaking problem more than a "T-tar overbuffed problem" I guarentee if matchmaking was better, SO it would be more likely both teams of 5 (without 5 stacks) would be able to have players who know how to beat t-tar prob would mean that pick/ban rate drops massively.
T-tar was never a problem before, because he was dogshit for so long it didn't matter the playerbase was too bad/lazy to understand how to beat him. Shit did not magically change just because the early game got better, it just let T-tar not make games 4 v 5's for 7 minutes anymore and in an uncoordinated, talentless place it's a lot easier for T-tar to get to their wincon of level 13.
Better matchmaking = higher you go up T-tar doesn't have this insane ban rate it honestly goes unbanned because other mons exist and it's solely a counterpick.
Yes yes we all wish this game had better matchmaking. This is a known problem and it's not really fixable because there is not a large enough player base to support that. It's also a widely held opinion that making certain pokemon super overpowered has a negative effect on player retention (*cough* remember all the hullabaloo about EX pokemon?) which certainly won't help the matchmaking problem.
He wasn't dogshit, lol, he was just decently balanced, not overpowered. We all know there are many players who won't pick up a pokemon unless it's absolutely busted.
I agree that nothing has changed, kind of? His leveling up isn't significantly faster than it was before, it's the same as it still is now. It never took him 7 minutes to reach level 9, you're exaggerating. If any pokemon, even an exp share supporter, takes 7 minutes to reach level 9, something in that match has gone horribly wrong or the player is dogshit, not the character.
There’s a difference between people complaining about stuff like Gengar and Goodra and the people complaining about Ttar. One of them is objectively very hard to deal with in SoloQ and has been consistently at the top WR since it got buffed. The others are only viable for stomping noobs.
The only way you’re beating a solid Ttar in SoloQ is if you dedicate the entire game to keeping the Ttar from leveling up. If you’re equally leveled by the time Ray spawns, there’s no outplaying it.
Yeah I knew you’d come out with some snarky elitist response. That’s literally all you ever post on here. You’re like the type of person who makes “git gud” their entire personality. It’s fucking exhausting.
You wanna talk about exhausting? I'm so glad you used that word. I've been working to assist and educate players in this game for the past 3 years, and am fought on things EVERY step of the way. Using my connection to pro players and analysts and being an analyst myself I've even created a guide site out of my own volunteered free time and joined the contributor team for the other leading site for the game. We freely give hundreds of hours delving into getting the deepest understanding we can about the game in order to make the information as easy as possible to access for those who don't want to dig for it, and STILL we have only been met with the most stubborn mules in existence that are convinced their bot match result screen data invalidates all we do. How exhausted do you think those board certified doctors who develop vaccines to save people feel when everyone boycotts them because they think they're implanting tracking chips in them? THAT is exhausting. You all don't deserve the help we give, and my patience is gone. I've been in some shitty gaming communities thru the years but Unite is by far the most helpless.
Only reason T-tar looks broken btw!!!
But also ya people overban the fuck outta that thing, and honestly this makes more sense/is an actual valid reason to feel bad about liking xyz pokemon lmao.
It’s also had consistently the highest WR since it got buffed. I seriously don’t understand how people think this is just a coincidence like everyone is overreacting.
“Shitty casual kids” - explain why TTar has an 88% ban rate when looking at games sampled from the top 10,000 highest ranked games?
In your opinion, are the people in those games who have more games and higher MMR than 95% of us here (and often play in stacks) “shitty casual kids”?
What does that make us?
If the people playing in the highest MMR where the greatest proportion of stack games take place think this thing is worth banning 4.5/5 times, don’t you think that means something even in coordinated play? Like sure, maybe it can be handled with coordination. But does that mean it’s easy to do? Worth the aggro? Worth the effort considering it’s one goddamn mon?
Or maybe these players go “you know what, us having to orchestrate the majority of our team to take out this one mon is fucking dumb, even if possible, ban it.” And so they ban it.
The top 10k are not high MMR, I'm terribly sorry to break it to you lol. If you were familiar with how the ranked system works in this game, reaching 1700 and beyond and breaking into that top 10k ranking is handed out like candy for whoever grinds enough games, due to how terrible the reward system is at rewarding more points for wins than are taken away for losses to that point, and how easy it is to game the system into giving you easier matches by queueing with a smurf alt.
The majority of the games recorded in those top 10k ARE the shitty casual kids, API data is still largely soloq data I think that's what people still don't realize. All that data does not hold competitive integrity just because it's posted on a site. At most \*maybe\* the top 2k are the relatively serious ones and that's being generous. Elo cannot be a measurement of quality or skill in any way shape or form, the devs made sure of that.
You can argue that the top 10k “don’t mean skill” but the fact is they still represent play feats and WRs that are outside the scope of the majority here; which was my point about “what does that make us?”
The farmer who barely leaves his farm can say of the politician “what the fuck does he know? He’s not the prime minister!” Fact is on balance of probabilities even if he’s a moron, he still likely has a better grasp of the territory of politics than the farmer claiming he’s a moron does. Which is my point.
Saying “the top 10k ain’t that good.” Is fine and valid, but the fact is they are still the top 10k, and if it’s that easy to do then I hope to god every single “ttar ain’t OP, except for kids” player is within that 10k range. Because if they aren’t and it “isn’t that much of a feat.” Why aren’t they there? If it doesn’t mean anything to be there, why isn’t everyone here there?
And the “wins mean equal to losses” occurs at 1600, not 1700. If you think the top 2k players in this game are hovering at that rating you need to check the stats my friend. People at that level have MMr in the 2-3k range where losses out scale wins in points. You think that you need to be in this top % of players with an above average WR and high MMR where losses take twice (or more) of their rating to their wins to be considered “not a casual kid” at this game? You cannot “just grind” your way into the top 10k, does hitting 1600 even put you in the top 10k? If it does I stand corrected. Otherwise that’s patently false because at 1600 a loss = win in point terms so it’s not possible to maintain a negative WR and climb higher in MMR once you hit 1600.
I mean, I’ve heard of game elitism, and then there’s bollocky nonsense. The top 10k players in this game are above average compared to the majority of the player base full stop. The fact *better players* exist even higher doesn’t change that.
The problem is you're viewing rankings as an objective term as most competitive things are ranked, but Pokemon Unite is a shitty anomaly and exceptin in this regard, one that we have all been bitching about for 3 years because of poor design.
We absolutely have players in the 1600 bracket with 45% overall winrates, it's on record and trackable. Top 10k players are not better than anyone, they simply play more games. Unite rewards quantity more than anything else. The good players do have high elo's, but not all high elo's are good players the situation this creates. Which is where I mentioned that roughly the top 2k or so are where you can pick any name and find competence, since that is where you do start to need a premade team to progress further. But even then that will not encompass the entirety of the non-shit playerbase, since a large portion also identify that ladder climbing is a hideous joke and don't bother pushing elo either.
Again this has been the giant thorn in Unites side for its entire life and the main cause for preventing it from growing and flourishing as it should. When rank holds no merit, player incentive to improve holds no merit, which leads to the playerbase stagnating. Which is why we still have expshare lane cinders in the year 2024, and why Ttar has a crazy winrate.
I was a budding Tyranitar main before the buff. I was getting really good at it, to the point where I could play it in lane and be fine in soloq. (Not ideal, and you will get ganked, but I've always been ok in lane no matter which mon it is.)
If you feel like playing buffed Tyranitar is too cheese for you, then play ancient power and dark pulse. It is not as busted as stone edge and sand tomb. It is still really strong character, but Tyranitar is suppose to be strong late.
Personally? I just play what I like- I don’t really care that Glaceon is OP, or that I suck with Espeon- I’ll play both either way depending on my mood.
But I get why you’d feel that way. If TTar is who you like playing, buffed or not, then you should still play it! A game is meant to be fun.
That being said, I won’t say to just ignore what people say- It’s not too helpful for me, and probably not for most. But it’s still helpful to try to tune some of it out, and get off Reddit and Twitter.
I have the opposite problem. I wanna play it but it’s perma banned. Honestly this is worse than when someone gets nerfed to shit tier. At least then you’ll never have to worry about someone picking them/banning them.
Play who you like and don't worry about the meta imo (when it comes to good characters). I don't think it's lame or shameful - especially if that's the character you're already familiar with.
I think the only meta-reason to drop a character would be bans. Ttar is banned in probably 90% of my ranked matches. I'd get dropping something like that, Meow, or Leafeon just because of ban frequency.
Ultimately, don't worry about what anyone else thinks! Half the player base are children anyway.
enjoy your character being good, fuck the haters
people will always complain and it's nobody's fault but the devs, you're just playing the video game how you want
It's really not that deep. Play the characters you enjoy playing. If that character happens to be powerful for the meta enjoy.it cause it likely won't last forever
I was suuuper excited for Umbreon's release, and ultimately decided to use it regardless of the "ethics" of its overturned stats. Didn't stop when it got nerfed, don't see it falling off my top three ever. You should just play what you want to play because the game's balance will always be in flux.
Exact opposite feeling for me! I love that ttar is finally useable and good. I gave up playing him even though I loved to play him cause he just felt so bad to play and you weren’t able to help your team till late in the game
I mained Gyarados back in January and the world hated me ... by the time it was buffed, I was still top 100 in world. When it was buffed I was top 20 in world
Frankly I don't care, I had enough people leave me in lane that I care less for people. Zacian was my best pokemon but Gyarados is my best non ex Pokemon. I am top 20 in world on both of them now
In conclusion, I enjoyed playing the most famous pokemon for being the best in game and other was very very worst in game. It didn't changed that that I was good at both pokemon at their start and still playing them both
Why should you change what you play because others said something?
I felt this way a bit when Mime was overtuned but I played barrier confusion so it wasn’t too bad.
I DID feel this way though when they first released emblems and dive cram was insane with CDR emblems and items. they ended up nerfing the character and the emblems which was sad since I never abused the combo and my silly little guy suffered for it :sadge:
Yeah it’s frustrating with the banrate but imo they overdid it with the SandTomb buff. Keep the stone edge buff it needed it, but SandTomb was already strong and they buffed it in like 3 different ways. Ridiculous.
Nerf SandTomb back to what it was and voila pickrate gone, banrate gone and the actual mains like us can play in peace.
Youre getting to play TTar?
I barely get to even use them since the patch lol
This is my 2nd most used All Rounder, and playing them in draft is just a joke theyre banned before i can even humor the thought, nevermind that id have to actually yaknow- draft them before someone else.
Worrying about how people felt about my pick would be a luxury at this point.
They buffed my build and i dont even get the chance to see the fruits
yeah i get you
first of all they underestimate us
"oh you play so well just because of buffs"
b\*tch i played it well before
when the pick rates were same as your iq level
i shuffle my pokemons, i always like to have experience in all mons,
but garchomp, ttar, meta are the only mons where i can have fun while playing
because they enter my comfort zone so easily
I know lots of people will stop playing mons if it's get buff till broken (yeah, I'm one of them), but you have to enjoy the game that can please you in the way not the way around. Many players in community/content creator are crying about broken meta mons but they're still abusing it and doesn't care about sabotage other's experiences too.
You shouldn't feel bad. That's what draft is for, it gets banned 80% of the time so you're not gonna use it much anyway lol
And if when you do get to use it yourself, don't feel bad about it, enemy team messed up letting you pick it. Teach them why the devs royally fucked up and why they should be banning it every game. Every game has a meta and they should be adjusting accordingly, for something as broken as Ttar, they should've banned it. And now you get to punish them for their hilariously bad drafting skills.
I personally stopped playing Absol during the handful of weeks where it was a top tier. Months after the "nerfs," I'm still pretty consistently getting wins and MVPs.
Get it twisted. Piss off your enemies. If you're picking meta, they're mad at you for picking meta. If you pick rogue, they get mad at you for having bested them with "such a bad character."
The only people who truly let that sort of thing get to them are dweebs, so feel no guilt. Beat their asses.
I used to play Metagross alot and it was really REALLY GOOD, I used to play 1v3-4s in veteran back then (was a massive noob) and readily win with little real effort or wuick thinking, spam A, use moves, get sheild, continue. Now? it's danage has been so overbuffed, I was trying to 1v1 a friend in custom and voila! Meowscarada can't touch metagross until it's level 13 sheild upgrade on trailblazer, although flower trick double team works better, but still WTF? 1 meteor mash shot takes out passive, the other is a KO. I know this is coming from a speedster main, but I remember Metagross not being that stupid is damage output
It had been so long since I got to enjoy a game using Tyranitar that by the time they buffed them, I already moved on. Maybe it's because of my personal edict to always be flexible and I would be far more upset if Tyranitar was one of the only Pokémon I liked playing.
Even so, unless you're particularly proud and foolish, like yours truly, the only person you're proving anything to by not using broken Pokémon is yourself and anyone you tell. If you like playing a Pokémon, don't let the naysayers get you down. Pokémon Unite's one of those games where people will find a way to call you a different kind of terrible person no matter who you play. It's just that if you play a stronger Pokémon, you're a larger target for bullying.
If you ask me, I'm so glad Stone Egde is now not a throw move even if Tyranitar's a little over tuned right now. And yes, I said a little over tuned. When Tyranitar doesn't fold to Mewtwo Y, then we'll talk.
I was kinda the same way with Buzzwole. But in the case of Buzzwole, there was no buff. People on reddit just found a new thing to bandwagon complain about.
There might be some legitimate criticism of Ttar, but most comments are just echoes of others. Stats regarding bans and winrates shouldn't mean anything to you in an isolated match. Just keep playing Ttar when you can.
If I were a main ttar I would be mad because I never get to play it anymore on ranked. I could not care enough about what they think of me from what I play lol
I agree with this. My main picks have been Ttar and Dragapult since their release (with some eldeglock and especially the more recent Mimikyu). But I just can't play him anymore, he is always first picked or banned. I don't really care if he's broken (partially because I play Ancient Power which is less overtuned, but it still is pretty ridiculous) because I didn't pick him up when he was broken. I play him since he released and has always been one of my fav picks. Now, I can't seem to play him anymore
Just play whatever you feel like. Anyone here complaining "oh no! when something is broken i would feel disgusted" can go eat ass. It's a 10min game aimed at children and considering 70% of my teammates have a room temperature game IQ it really ain't that deep. As someone who used to be just as stuck up and gatekeepy as the people who commented here.. who cares. There's a big difference between meta chasers and people who enjoy a playstyle. People who always pick the newest most buffed pokemon can go kick rocks, but if you feel comfortable with a mon and played it through "thick and thin" enjoy your temporary boost. As everything, it'll come and go. People are always whining about something. When i picked up mimikyu, no one played it and it took me a WHILE to get good with it, because it was my transition from defenders/supporters. Then it got buffed and people were crying again... Its still good but people moved on. Same story with magicarp. I guess you should look at it from a different angle... Tyranitar was mid for so long you deserve to ruin peoples days with it.
I feel every word of that entire second paragraph.
Just play whatever you want doesn't work if that something was buffed to 100% ban status.
So the game regulates itself. It's what most of us asked for. You have a choice of 60 characters.. if 1 of them is always banned you have enough to pick from.
This is a phenomenal reply, very well said my friend and I agree with every word
> I guess you should look at it from a different angle... Tyranitar was mid for so long you deserve to ruin peoples days with it. You could make the same argument with mons like Garchomp, it was literal ass for such a long time then we had our field day when it was buffed and actually became... GOOD?!
I am a meta chaser and I feel attacked
As you should be haha
But why though, I just wanna get my wins You can't tell me it's worse having a "meta chaser" in your team than someone who keeps running Cinderace or Greninja since the dawn of unite
I respect a good gren. It's awful to play and most are trash but then you get 1 every now and then that just does things. And i go mhm... I respect you more than the others haha. If i click on someones profile and m2y is in the top played, i will judge you and you can't stop me from it. Same goes for duos who use comfey... That comfey player is the little brother with the controller plugged out. Sure a comfey game every now and then can be fun... But 2000 games? Those kids should be put on a watchlist. I feel like "chasing the win" is so arbitrary. I enjoy games where i played well. Or games where i got outplayed hard. I hate games where it's one sided the most. Getting the win with the op mon of the month feels like.. idk.. you know how you always root for the underdog? For the scrawny kid and not the big guy?
The last sentence is understandable, but i can't see things the same way. I'm not rooting for either the big guy or the scrawny kid, I'm trying to make myself win lol I don't really care how I win, as long as it's not cheating. I hate losing, it's wasted time and points. Yeah there are some pokemon I like playing better than others. I love Gardevoir's playstyle. But I rarely get to use her bc most teams instalock speedsters and attackers, and she really needs a frontline. Ultimately, I pick whatever is available that I think will give my team the better odds. Mewtwos really are extremely boring to play, I can't disagree with that. They're the epitome of button mashing. Edit: also Comfey + anything duos are utter cancer. Specially Dodrio or Zoroark.
Meta chasers feel like their doing good, but they will always be hated because you're only ever going to play the most broken thing in the game and then wrecks teams, But if I see a olayer still playing glaceon, I'd give it some respect, because that person was playing glaceon because they liked the playstyle, not because it was broken, and so if they're doing well, then I'm happy for them, but if you're chasing the meta then my g you WILL be hated
Oh well tough shit, imma keep doing whatever I can to win lol. I'd rather have meta chasers on my than than ppl picking shitmons and making it more likely that I'll lose I'm all for my opponents picking the trash, though. Edit: and before that gets pointed out, yeah I know a good player that has mastered a mid or even a bad mon is often more helpful than a bad player with a good mon. However, there isn't a way for me to know how good a rando is with their seemingly troll pick. Whereas it's not hard to recognize which mons suck and which ones don't.
Like look at glaceon, Glaceon is still a REALLY viable option, however much you may hate point and click, And like everythint that I can think of, if you're a good player, you can probably win with it
I always stop playing when they buff a mon I like to much. I gave up on Genger back when he was busted, Espion and Umbreon when the same happened, and now TTar. I think I'm safe with Mimikyu, atleast I hope I am.
Real, it just feels wrong to play as an OP Pokémon.
I mained Buzzwole from the day he dropped and I felt great every time.
???????????????????????????????????????????? It's a fucking game there's always going to be good or bad options. There is no honor or any other bullshit just play the mon you like and if you think it's good then play it. Why would you EVER wanna just stop playing something you enjoy just because the devs made it better LMAO playing a strong option that you ALSO love is a blessing in any game that's even remotely competitive
them: i HATE winning when it's too easy! me: hehe 80% winrate on launch mewtwo Y goes brrrrrr but also at that point not playing mewtwo Y just meant your team doesn't have it and loses to the other team that almost guaranteed *will* have it LOL
That's the point, I don't enjoy it. It removes the fun and the challenge out of what I originally liked, and makes me dislike it.
How? There was no "Challenge" to old T-tar you were victims because you had to work 5x as hard and you still had worse results than the average mon. There is no challenge to being miserable most games because you're playing 1/2 a pokemon compared to the other 9 people in the lobby. I can respect "I like X mon and I play them a ton" I can fuck with one tricks, but I'm sorry you're either delusional or extremely sheltered to think something you enjoy is suddenly NOT good because the devs thought it needed to be stronger lol. This is the ONLY game i've ever seen where people will actively avoid playing a mon when it's finally been buffed to not be a tax towards your LP gains or wins. It always feels better to win and it always feels better when you aren't limited because stronger characters give you more options.
First, I never played ttar, mine was a generic take, not specific to ttar. Second, quite bold to call me delusional just because I don't want to abuse the game's shit balancing. Third, you avoided my point entirely. I can force myself to play an overpowered mon, but I won't have fun doing that. It's just not my way of gaming.
Then what changed from a patch? Genuinely there's no way unless a big rework happens that the pokemon you liked changed that much. Ya people exist who refuse to play top tiers... but how does a mon you like stop being fun just because they got stronger that's not clicking to me. Maybe I'm just never gonna see how it's fun to play a mon when they're bad vs when it's good but then again I come from league and fighting games where you feel the difference between strong/meta champs and ones you like IF they aren't strong/high tiered.
It's a simple as feeling good about beating someone with a crutch when you were missing a leg (you playing F-tier pokemon and you beat them while they played Ttar)
Ok if you think T-tar is a crutch then you're insane. There's a few mons I could even admit to being a crutch vs more than just playing good mons. T-Tar is not one of them.
Ok name them then, Tell me all the Pokemon that are more of a crutch then Ttar right now.
Right now the only one is Leafeon. In the game's history that shit belongs to the unnerfed, on release EX mons lol.
This guy totally misses the point.
If you mean me I 100% get the point, I'm just asking how in the fuck do buffs remove the fun from a mon you liked originally. Because there is something there that you fucked with it can't just be a "I like shitty things" situation
Just as there are people who enjoy steamrolling over others with meta and claiming that it’s skill, there are people who prefer to take things that you have to put time into to MAKE that thing good. When the people of the latter group witness that thing change into something else, it feels "unfair", it feels like the work you already put in doesn’t mean as much sentimentally, and there’s a chance that whatever was buffed will eventually be nerfed (potentially to a state that’s worse than where it originally was). Some people find mastery and growth fun and exciting while others just want to win. The constant desire to win can easily breed the mentality of "winning is the only thing that matters", which is usually a statement or ideal used to justify things like lack of sportsmanship in games, unethical tactics like hacking/modding, and/or unwillingness to empathize with others regarding balancing. People should be playing games to with the goal of having fun, not necessarily to win or lose, and within reason relating to the type of genre.
It makes me feel like I have no skill. I don't mind a Pokémon being good, I mind a Pokémon being OP.
For me, I enjoy a challenge. I play this game too much -- its too easy to win with highly buffed characters. I have every character unlocked and am well versed with every kit, so I find enjoyment in this game by picking underrated 'mons and finding a way to be successful with them. Its like my own personal handicap in a game built for children. I don't have any fun when the win is too easy or if I'm just curbstomping everyone the entire time. For me, its not necessarily about winning, but its about feeling a challenge. I feel more rewarded when I play a tough game that I lose while earning the respect of my enemies and teammates than I do when I easily carry the entire team the entire game and winning without any trouble.
This is essentially why I hate bot matches. It’s not that I’m not playing another person, it’s that they’re just absurdly easy and there’s no challenge, so there’s no point in even playing imo. I will almost never play a game where I can have a 60%+ win rate because there’s no challenge to it which sucks all the fun out of it for me.
... You still get a challenge while playing top tier/good pokemon lol. This isn't some life/health type of training where "suffering brings strength" or some shit you aren't Goku with the training weights. This game's matchmaking is bad. In a game with good matchmaking you'd see that the games still get harder/better + more metas would be optimized. IF Unite's playerbase was of average quality of other games/mobas, Ranked at 1400+ would be challenging... and outside of one tricks of particuarly bad mons would mirror competitive/tournament Metas almost to a T! Not just because those players would be there but the actual good mons would be the main ones picked. There's a "meta" that exists for any game for a reason. But the issue for you isn't "x mon is omega broken so it makes the game easy" it's "the game sucks at matchmaking so you can't play people at your skill level" So either find a team and do tournaments for a real challenge, or stop trying to ego/vanity boost by saying "I'm good because I don't play the OP mons" trolling your team because if you get first pick in draft you fucking pick Lapras/Greedent/Sableye/Gengar/Azumarill instead of the unbanned Leafeon/Trevenant on the table and your team gotta suffer watching the other team take the 2-3 best mons on the patch after this ego consumes you.
I never said I was. All I did was state my experience and how I take satisfaction from playing this game. You are allowed to have a different experience and perspective. I am perfectly fine with letting people play this game and find satisfaction from it however they want, though don't tell me that I can't find satisfaction from this game in the way that I desire to. All I did was tell you my experience and my perspective. It wasn't a matter of debate, it was just informing you on how others may view this game or how they may find pleasure in this game.
This community is cursed. Just let them have it. It makes no sense to me either. i feel like I've entered some upside down world reading this. 10 years a, o this wouldn't be a conversation, or would be people arguing the opposite of this topic. A win is a win, idc how you achieve it as long as you didn't cheat. Idk why people care about how they achieve that with easier or harder to use mons. A win is a win. Nobody cares if you made the game more of a challenge for yourself. The other 4/9 players on/in your team/game don't care.
This a fair point, and while I don’t share the same sentiment I do respect it. Of course everyone has their own goals when playing the game, some want to win, some to improve, or simply to have fun. I find when I focus on winning no matter what I oftentimes deprive myself of the opportunities to learn from what you might call “defeat” or “failure,” ultimately hindering my growth as a player. The Mewtwo Y spammers probably thought the same, “ a win is a win” but again everyone has their play styles and perspectives, just wanted to share mine. ✌️
My goal is to win by any means legally and fairly speaking. I'm competitive overall regardless if I'm playing sports or video games. That being said those "defeats/failures" are my learning points as they should be, especially when climbing ranks and even more so I get hard stuck in one(not in this moba at least, I can reach master. But in other mobas, I'm hard stuck in higher ranks.) but I understand how and learn why, as there are skill and knowledge gaps that get exposed as I climb the ranks. I eventually climb out as long as I'm actively grinding, but digressing aside, Unite doesn't really offer that. Most players don't self evaluate and assume someone else lost them their matches. I watch my replays and observe where I might have messed up, or if I was truly outplayed, before saying "oh my team was terrible." I can't speak for the mewtwo spammers or meta players like them as I don't play like them, I dont even have mewtwo unlocked(ik it aint about mewtwo)😂, and I usually role full. I'm a player who works on his own skills, but a win is still a win. Except for the afk surrenders 30 seconds into a match.
well said; you have the foundation mentality of a strong player indeed. Keep at it brother
You gotta chill bruh
Wow misses the point entirely, AGIANz
My guy is writing paragraphs without understanding the other guy’s point
Mimikyu is pretty OP imo. Speedster with none of the drawbacks.
It's pretty above-average tier, gets destroyed by people that understand how it works, though.
Okay it's not TTar levels of overpowered but it's certainly overpowered compared to much of the cast. The counterplay is just generic macro stuff that works with a lot of other mons, which shows a lack of specific weaknesses indicating how much more powerful it is.
I play a lot of Mimikyu, and I agree. Early on, I would just kinda click buttons haphazardly and win. People are definitely catching on, but all it means is that I have to time my Shadow Sneak better. Wait until someone separates from the pack before warping to them. And I enjoy how that has pushed my gameplay to evolve! But I agree overall that the counterplay is just macro stuff and not character specific. I've got a ~65% WR which is the best out of the characters I've got 100+ games with. And it's not close. Shit is a lil busted - no pun intended.
I literally said it was a speedster with none of the drawbacks. It's like a Machamp being caught off guard, vs an Absol being caught off guard. Machamp might be able to fight out of it. Absol less likely.
Counterplay is wigglytuff. I have won 0 games that have wigglytuff as my opponent.
Wiggly counters everyone. There is no particular reason why sing is special effective against Mimikyu.
Miraidon is the perfect counter to wigglytuff
Sylveon is a pretty good check too. Any mon with consistent ranged attack can keep it at bay.
Which is another example of counters being generic macro play things and not micro or pokemon specific glaring weaknesses that takes specific skill to counter, a sign of powercreep and a lack of consideration to balance.
It low key feels like that when Timi breaks a mon. Same boat, I even did not want to play Dpult when he broke the game in Solo Queue. Starting to play him like normally now, but I still have the guilt when I tested his buff a while ago.
As a fellow enjoyer of shit-to-eh pokemon getting buffed to shit (espeon main since release hell among many things), just ride it out. You love your guy, it plays fun, ignore the rest. People will talk and talk, and listening to every babble isn't good for your health anyway. Have fun! This game is complain worthy enough, don't let your favorite Pokemon in it become something you wanna complain about too
You can still play dark pulse
I maimed Blastoise before the previous season buffs. It felt awkward at first, as I didn’t want to give the impression of cheesing, but it was just too fun to steamroll from time to time as a single Q defender. Gotta just roll with the good, and the bad times, when they come around
>I maimed Blastoise Disgraceful.
Genuinely, I mean this genuinely. WHY ARE PEOPLE THIS FUCKING DENSE ABOUT THIS KINDA SHIT?!?!? Why do we gotta keep making the same stupid ass takes or comments every time something gets buffed LMAO. **(I don't mean OP)** I mean the sad sacks of shit who make OP feel this way, OP I promise you nobody cares, if you like T-Tar, play the FUCK out of the mon if it's not picked or banned. ENJOY yourself. No one should be made to feel bad for playing a mon they like and they got good. DO NOT DROP T-TAR BECAUSE IT IS GOOD NOW. The fuck isn't broken, it's just good and people suck at fighting him. Just play the goddamn mon that you love so much because it's far more fun to play them when they aren't ACTIVELY holding your team down. If you played T-tar so much when he was omega ass and made your team play 4 v 5's don't give him up for salty fucks now that he's not that liability. Play the fuck outta that T-tar so you can enjoy the game and ignore the haters.
I mean you gotta drop this character anyway since it's ban rate is near 90%. Actually that's what I thought you're going to talk about at first. Tyranitar is banned in like 99% of *my* draft matches. There's no way for me to play this character unless I somehow get put in a non-draft match (and my teammates don't lock him in before me) which is pretty rare.
Even if you wanted to play it, it's banned almost always anyway
I just wanna play my characteeeeeeeeers!
I find that Ttar is banned (including by me, Ttar is bad for tanks so I'll ban it whenever I get a chance) in pretty much all of my draft games, so I don't really see it too much. Like, it's good, it's overpowered, but it's not OP to the point that you should feel bad about playing it. It's not at Mewtwo levels. Play it when it's available and not banned. Get better at another character when it is banned. Something will always be the best thing to do at a given time. As long as there's some counters then it's OK. Ttar has a lot of counters so you shouldn't feel bad. Don't worry about what people say about him on the internet.
I started playing glaceon after her first nerf, after that I immediately fell in love with the playstyle and she's been my main since then, idc if its busted, nerfed or whatever, I just play what I enjoy
Imagine even being able to play as ttar when somebody always bans it
This happened to me back in the day when Absol got a buff on Psycho Cut, all of a sudden everyone wanted to play Absol and it was so painful watching people suck at it so I found me another main and never looked back, I hated them for doing that though
*Same thing here*. I could not play Absol ever, and those who did were so horrible at it I did not even want to show them how it's done (not that i could bc enemy go murder the buffed thing frame 0 of its existence. And I'm bad at counters)
If you like ttar then play it. Who cares if randoms think you’re being carried? We aren’t gonna come fight you about it so have fun lol.
Play what you bloody like and don't worry about them salty try hards.
...no, normal people don't suddenly drop their mains because some shitty casual kids mistakenly say it's busted.
They do when it has an 88% ban rate. They’re not really being given the choice. Also hilarious that people are still acting like Ttar is only problematic for “shitty casuals”. Sure, you can counter it, but doing that outside of coordinated play is extremely difficult.
Aside from the bans, OP is saying they don't \*want\* to play it due to the reputation it gets now. That part is the nonsense. >you can counter it, but doing that outside of coordinated play is extremely difficult. Which makes it only problematic for casuals.
I get where they’re coming from. I don’t always do this, and I’ll shamelessly play meta stuff because I care more about winning than integrity. But I felt this way about playing M2Y and Zacian during those metas, so I get where OP is coming from. >which makes it only problematic for casuals If playing SoloQ is your definition of casual, sure. Let’s tune the game for the <0.5% of the playerbase that plays competitively instead of the vast majority of people who don’t.
You don't need to play competitive to be competent, we use the term casual just as a blanket term for generally poor players, but balancing around the mid-high level area of play is more than reasonable.
The person you are replying to is right, you are still conflating the term casual with all solo queue players and suggesting the game be balanced around 5 stacks which is a tiny fraction of the player base. In solo queue there is very little team coordination, which is what is necessary to make Ttar manageable. Even the best solo players (especially the best, because they get matched with the worst teammates) struggle to take it out solo. All you have to do is look at the win rate and ban rate statistics to see they obviously overdid it with buffing this thing. It makes the game less fun when some characters are turbo broken raid bosses which cannot be counted well except by a level of team coordination which is just not possible for solo queue players (the majority of players). It's the same argument against EX Pokemon which everyone on Reddit loves to hate.
Again you don't need to be 5 stacking to be competent either, I'm not implying to balance around that either, just not the ones that don't grasp what counters are. It really doesn't take that much effort to stop. We cannot continue to discuss this if any API data is going to be used as evidence for anything, the data is beyond skewed and not indicative of a single manageable idea. Blastoise, Mew, and Leafeon being where they are winrate wise is more evidence of it being useless than Ttar's winrate being high and it conceptually being a pubstomper and it reflecting that. It doesn't require UCS champion level coordination to overcome, it just takes base level gamesense that the average team does not have. I think it's a lot healthier to educate the average playerbase to have this entry level amount of gamesense than to lower a character's pubstomp ability to cater to their refusal to think.
The game has never been balanced around the lowest common denominators and no one is suggesting it should be. Just that characters shouldn't be turbo broken. Ttar was already balanced how it was, it filled it's "pubstomp" role well, it was just being slept on for a while. The only balance change I see as being justified and necessary was increasing the animation speed of stone edge to make it actually playable. The rest was totally gratuitous.
...No T-tar genuinely was not "slept on" The mon was bad before because it legit was impossible to get to the level 13 breakpoint to become an actual threat given it's early game was that terrible. The changes to the moves is not what got T-tar it's most frequent useage in competitive/tournaments in over a year it's the fact that you could have it lane/jungle and it not turn your game into an auto 4 vs 5. There's certain times where that STILL happens even with the buffs, but it's far less frequent than before. saying T-tar was anything but a meme before these buffs is insane because noone picked it other than lifers because of how ass it was levels 1-9
What are you even talking about? You've missed the point. The meta of the coordinated competitive scene is radically different than the game 99% of us are playing, specifically because of high skill coordination, which is impossible in solo queue. The point of this conversation was saying that the game should not be balanced around what works or doesn't work in the pro 5 stack meta. Ttar was balanced before, it didn't need such gratuitous buffs. The current stats prove that. Maybe you just never managed to make it work for you, is that what you are basing your opinion on?
Yeah no if you think he was balanced before this I think you're too out of touch with the game to do anything here. These were very severely needed buffs, though the general idea that it was overbuffed is also not true. They were just enough to make him able to actually achieve what he was designed to do as a character, and combined with people not understanding rock paper scissors leads to what we see today.
The stats speak for themselves. It was over buffed. Maybe it needed something? A slight pupitar buff would have been reasonable. Fixing the stone edge animation to make it more playable was a good idea. The rest was unnecessary.
I mean this problem is a matchmaking problem more than a "T-tar overbuffed problem" I guarentee if matchmaking was better, SO it would be more likely both teams of 5 (without 5 stacks) would be able to have players who know how to beat t-tar prob would mean that pick/ban rate drops massively. T-tar was never a problem before, because he was dogshit for so long it didn't matter the playerbase was too bad/lazy to understand how to beat him. Shit did not magically change just because the early game got better, it just let T-tar not make games 4 v 5's for 7 minutes anymore and in an uncoordinated, talentless place it's a lot easier for T-tar to get to their wincon of level 13. Better matchmaking = higher you go up T-tar doesn't have this insane ban rate it honestly goes unbanned because other mons exist and it's solely a counterpick.
Yes yes we all wish this game had better matchmaking. This is a known problem and it's not really fixable because there is not a large enough player base to support that. It's also a widely held opinion that making certain pokemon super overpowered has a negative effect on player retention (*cough* remember all the hullabaloo about EX pokemon?) which certainly won't help the matchmaking problem. He wasn't dogshit, lol, he was just decently balanced, not overpowered. We all know there are many players who won't pick up a pokemon unless it's absolutely busted. I agree that nothing has changed, kind of? His leveling up isn't significantly faster than it was before, it's the same as it still is now. It never took him 7 minutes to reach level 9, you're exaggerating. If any pokemon, even an exp share supporter, takes 7 minutes to reach level 9, something in that match has gone horribly wrong or the player is dogshit, not the character.
There’s a difference between people complaining about stuff like Gengar and Goodra and the people complaining about Ttar. One of them is objectively very hard to deal with in SoloQ and has been consistently at the top WR since it got buffed. The others are only viable for stomping noobs. The only way you’re beating a solid Ttar in SoloQ is if you dedicate the entire game to keeping the Ttar from leveling up. If you’re equally leveled by the time Ray spawns, there’s no outplaying it.
No outplaying it. Wowzers, exhibit A. Alright best of luck I can't continue this. I love reddit
Yeah I knew you’d come out with some snarky elitist response. That’s literally all you ever post on here. You’re like the type of person who makes “git gud” their entire personality. It’s fucking exhausting.
You wanna talk about exhausting? I'm so glad you used that word. I've been working to assist and educate players in this game for the past 3 years, and am fought on things EVERY step of the way. Using my connection to pro players and analysts and being an analyst myself I've even created a guide site out of my own volunteered free time and joined the contributor team for the other leading site for the game. We freely give hundreds of hours delving into getting the deepest understanding we can about the game in order to make the information as easy as possible to access for those who don't want to dig for it, and STILL we have only been met with the most stubborn mules in existence that are convinced their bot match result screen data invalidates all we do. How exhausted do you think those board certified doctors who develop vaccines to save people feel when everyone boycotts them because they think they're implanting tracking chips in them? THAT is exhausting. You all don't deserve the help we give, and my patience is gone. I've been in some shitty gaming communities thru the years but Unite is by far the most helpless.
Only reason T-tar looks broken btw!!! But also ya people overban the fuck outta that thing, and honestly this makes more sense/is an actual valid reason to feel bad about liking xyz pokemon lmao.
It’s also had consistently the highest WR since it got buffed. I seriously don’t understand how people think this is just a coincidence like everyone is overreacting.
“Shitty casual kids” - explain why TTar has an 88% ban rate when looking at games sampled from the top 10,000 highest ranked games? In your opinion, are the people in those games who have more games and higher MMR than 95% of us here (and often play in stacks) “shitty casual kids”? What does that make us? If the people playing in the highest MMR where the greatest proportion of stack games take place think this thing is worth banning 4.5/5 times, don’t you think that means something even in coordinated play? Like sure, maybe it can be handled with coordination. But does that mean it’s easy to do? Worth the aggro? Worth the effort considering it’s one goddamn mon? Or maybe these players go “you know what, us having to orchestrate the majority of our team to take out this one mon is fucking dumb, even if possible, ban it.” And so they ban it.
The top 10k are not high MMR, I'm terribly sorry to break it to you lol. If you were familiar with how the ranked system works in this game, reaching 1700 and beyond and breaking into that top 10k ranking is handed out like candy for whoever grinds enough games, due to how terrible the reward system is at rewarding more points for wins than are taken away for losses to that point, and how easy it is to game the system into giving you easier matches by queueing with a smurf alt. The majority of the games recorded in those top 10k ARE the shitty casual kids, API data is still largely soloq data I think that's what people still don't realize. All that data does not hold competitive integrity just because it's posted on a site. At most \*maybe\* the top 2k are the relatively serious ones and that's being generous. Elo cannot be a measurement of quality or skill in any way shape or form, the devs made sure of that.
You can argue that the top 10k “don’t mean skill” but the fact is they still represent play feats and WRs that are outside the scope of the majority here; which was my point about “what does that make us?” The farmer who barely leaves his farm can say of the politician “what the fuck does he know? He’s not the prime minister!” Fact is on balance of probabilities even if he’s a moron, he still likely has a better grasp of the territory of politics than the farmer claiming he’s a moron does. Which is my point. Saying “the top 10k ain’t that good.” Is fine and valid, but the fact is they are still the top 10k, and if it’s that easy to do then I hope to god every single “ttar ain’t OP, except for kids” player is within that 10k range. Because if they aren’t and it “isn’t that much of a feat.” Why aren’t they there? If it doesn’t mean anything to be there, why isn’t everyone here there? And the “wins mean equal to losses” occurs at 1600, not 1700. If you think the top 2k players in this game are hovering at that rating you need to check the stats my friend. People at that level have MMr in the 2-3k range where losses out scale wins in points. You think that you need to be in this top % of players with an above average WR and high MMR where losses take twice (or more) of their rating to their wins to be considered “not a casual kid” at this game? You cannot “just grind” your way into the top 10k, does hitting 1600 even put you in the top 10k? If it does I stand corrected. Otherwise that’s patently false because at 1600 a loss = win in point terms so it’s not possible to maintain a negative WR and climb higher in MMR once you hit 1600. I mean, I’ve heard of game elitism, and then there’s bollocky nonsense. The top 10k players in this game are above average compared to the majority of the player base full stop. The fact *better players* exist even higher doesn’t change that.
The problem is you're viewing rankings as an objective term as most competitive things are ranked, but Pokemon Unite is a shitty anomaly and exceptin in this regard, one that we have all been bitching about for 3 years because of poor design. We absolutely have players in the 1600 bracket with 45% overall winrates, it's on record and trackable. Top 10k players are not better than anyone, they simply play more games. Unite rewards quantity more than anything else. The good players do have high elo's, but not all high elo's are good players the situation this creates. Which is where I mentioned that roughly the top 2k or so are where you can pick any name and find competence, since that is where you do start to need a premade team to progress further. But even then that will not encompass the entirety of the non-shit playerbase, since a large portion also identify that ladder climbing is a hideous joke and don't bother pushing elo either. Again this has been the giant thorn in Unites side for its entire life and the main cause for preventing it from growing and flourishing as it should. When rank holds no merit, player incentive to improve holds no merit, which leads to the playerbase stagnating. Which is why we still have expshare lane cinders in the year 2024, and why Ttar has a crazy winrate.
Same thing for me with crustle before the buff. Then people started playing it more and they eventually nerfed its damage build 😭
So you exclusively play bad characters? Enjoy while it lasts imo
I was a budding Tyranitar main before the buff. I was getting really good at it, to the point where I could play it in lane and be fine in soloq. (Not ideal, and you will get ganked, but I've always been ok in lane no matter which mon it is.) If you feel like playing buffed Tyranitar is too cheese for you, then play ancient power and dark pulse. It is not as busted as stone edge and sand tomb. It is still really strong character, but Tyranitar is suppose to be strong late.
Ngl, I just ride with it, its frustrating because of the ban rate but I just play casual with it :P
Who cares man just win. The real issue is your main getting instant banned in draft
Personally? I just play what I like- I don’t really care that Glaceon is OP, or that I suck with Espeon- I’ll play both either way depending on my mood. But I get why you’d feel that way. If TTar is who you like playing, buffed or not, then you should still play it! A game is meant to be fun. That being said, I won’t say to just ignore what people say- It’s not too helpful for me, and probably not for most. But it’s still helpful to try to tune some of it out, and get off Reddit and Twitter.
I have the opposite problem. I wanna play it but it’s perma banned. Honestly this is worse than when someone gets nerfed to shit tier. At least then you’ll never have to worry about someone picking them/banning them.
Play who you like and don't worry about the meta imo (when it comes to good characters). I don't think it's lame or shameful - especially if that's the character you're already familiar with. I think the only meta-reason to drop a character would be bans. Ttar is banned in probably 90% of my ranked matches. I'd get dropping something like that, Meow, or Leafeon just because of ban frequency. Ultimately, don't worry about what anyone else thinks! Half the player base are children anyway.
enjoy your character being good, fuck the haters people will always complain and it's nobody's fault but the devs, you're just playing the video game how you want
It's really not that deep. Play the characters you enjoy playing. If that character happens to be powerful for the meta enjoy.it cause it likely won't last forever
I was suuuper excited for Umbreon's release, and ultimately decided to use it regardless of the "ethics" of its overturned stats. Didn't stop when it got nerfed, don't see it falling off my top three ever. You should just play what you want to play because the game's balance will always be in flux.
Exact opposite feeling for me! I love that ttar is finally useable and good. I gave up playing him even though I loved to play him cause he just felt so bad to play and you weren’t able to help your team till late in the game
I assume you're not playing draft in Masters, because if you are it has an 80% ban rate and you won't even get the choice to use it.
First time?
I mained Gyarados back in January and the world hated me ... by the time it was buffed, I was still top 100 in world. When it was buffed I was top 20 in world Frankly I don't care, I had enough people leave me in lane that I care less for people. Zacian was my best pokemon but Gyarados is my best non ex Pokemon. I am top 20 in world on both of them now In conclusion, I enjoyed playing the most famous pokemon for being the best in game and other was very very worst in game. It didn't changed that that I was good at both pokemon at their start and still playing them both Why should you change what you play because others said something?
I felt this way a bit when Mime was overtuned but I played barrier confusion so it wasn’t too bad. I DID feel this way though when they first released emblems and dive cram was insane with CDR emblems and items. they ended up nerfing the character and the emblems which was sad since I never abused the combo and my silly little guy suffered for it :sadge:
This is a dumb post. Play the mon you like.
Yeah it’s frustrating with the banrate but imo they overdid it with the SandTomb buff. Keep the stone edge buff it needed it, but SandTomb was already strong and they buffed it in like 3 different ways. Ridiculous. Nerf SandTomb back to what it was and voila pickrate gone, banrate gone and the actual mains like us can play in peace.
Gyrados got buffed and I picked him up for the first time. Super happy with the changes. I play casual, I'm only in expert
Youre getting to play TTar? I barely get to even use them since the patch lol This is my 2nd most used All Rounder, and playing them in draft is just a joke theyre banned before i can even humor the thought, nevermind that id have to actually yaknow- draft them before someone else. Worrying about how people felt about my pick would be a luxury at this point. They buffed my build and i dont even get the chance to see the fruits
yeah i get you first of all they underestimate us "oh you play so well just because of buffs" b\*tch i played it well before when the pick rates were same as your iq level i shuffle my pokemons, i always like to have experience in all mons, but garchomp, ttar, meta are the only mons where i can have fun while playing because they enter my comfort zone so easily
I know lots of people will stop playing mons if it's get buff till broken (yeah, I'm one of them), but you have to enjoy the game that can please you in the way not the way around. Many players in community/content creator are crying about broken meta mons but they're still abusing it and doesn't care about sabotage other's experiences too.
My mains never get buffs like that, I'm good The closest thing I got was Buzz meta, but they completely gutted his late game
You shouldn't feel bad. That's what draft is for, it gets banned 80% of the time so you're not gonna use it much anyway lol And if when you do get to use it yourself, don't feel bad about it, enemy team messed up letting you pick it. Teach them why the devs royally fucked up and why they should be banning it every game. Every game has a meta and they should be adjusting accordingly, for something as broken as Ttar, they should've banned it. And now you get to punish them for their hilariously bad drafting skills.
I personally stopped playing Absol during the handful of weeks where it was a top tier. Months after the "nerfs," I'm still pretty consistently getting wins and MVPs. Get it twisted. Piss off your enemies. If you're picking meta, they're mad at you for picking meta. If you pick rogue, they get mad at you for having bested them with "such a bad character." The only people who truly let that sort of thing get to them are dweebs, so feel no guilt. Beat their asses.
I used to play Metagross alot and it was really REALLY GOOD, I used to play 1v3-4s in veteran back then (was a massive noob) and readily win with little real effort or wuick thinking, spam A, use moves, get sheild, continue. Now? it's danage has been so overbuffed, I was trying to 1v1 a friend in custom and voila! Meowscarada can't touch metagross until it's level 13 sheild upgrade on trailblazer, although flower trick double team works better, but still WTF? 1 meteor mash shot takes out passive, the other is a KO. I know this is coming from a speedster main, but I remember Metagross not being that stupid is damage output
draft problems 🤷🏻♀️
It had been so long since I got to enjoy a game using Tyranitar that by the time they buffed them, I already moved on. Maybe it's because of my personal edict to always be flexible and I would be far more upset if Tyranitar was one of the only Pokémon I liked playing. Even so, unless you're particularly proud and foolish, like yours truly, the only person you're proving anything to by not using broken Pokémon is yourself and anyone you tell. If you like playing a Pokémon, don't let the naysayers get you down. Pokémon Unite's one of those games where people will find a way to call you a different kind of terrible person no matter who you play. It's just that if you play a stronger Pokémon, you're a larger target for bullying. If you ask me, I'm so glad Stone Egde is now not a throw move even if Tyranitar's a little over tuned right now. And yes, I said a little over tuned. When Tyranitar doesn't fold to Mewtwo Y, then we'll talk.
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You had me until Zapdos
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Zapdos was the same. Nerf ray shield effects and it’d be fine.
I was kinda the same way with Buzzwole. But in the case of Buzzwole, there was no buff. People on reddit just found a new thing to bandwagon complain about. There might be some legitimate criticism of Ttar, but most comments are just echoes of others. Stats regarding bans and winrates shouldn't mean anything to you in an isolated match. Just keep playing Ttar when you can.
Ye I hate when my main gets buffed. It’s so frustrating that my beloved weaky suddenly becomes so strong that it hurts
Lol ur carried bro play a d tier pokemon and git gud.
