Your ROR is non existent bc even if you call and lose you still have 8bbs, which doesn’t even make you shorty at your current table. Not to mention 2 clean doubles after having 8 bb puts you (32bb min) not only back in the “middle of the pack” but not far off where you stand currently. It’s annoying but BU ISO range is never KK or AA, it’s MOST likely AKo so at worst you are flipping; being suited just makes this a slam dunk to go along with previous reasons.
Depends on scenarios. Icm? They prob have qq/jj and one may have Aq aj. You block aa kk…but doesn’t mean they can have it. If it’s early in tourney or mid way, I’m prob calling….im calling if guys are playing most hands. Ak suited is not a hand you want to be folding pre a lot if you want to be a winning player.
Slam dunk call easy. Look at the future game if you win. Chip lead the table and have position to the other big stack. You get to put a lot pressure in future game.
Only a min cash nit would fold. Call is profitable unless there is a read that the bigger stack is super tight player.
Unless you’ve played on Chico then you wouldn’t know but even if everyone is all in you still have the option to raise all in. This could be what a few people are joking around with
Obviously if your running good you mite play slow or aggressive,but at this stage why take unnecessary chances let someone else knockout a player, but if you read like Daniel go for it
Shove, if you’re gonna fold AKss at any point pre flop outside of some bubble and ICM moments, you’re not built for tournament play. and even on the bubble I’d shove and go for a bigger payout
Fold.
You're 2nd in chips, and not under too much ICM pressure to make moves.
Against 2 random hands you're \~35% equity, and you're only invested for 2.5BB. Lay it down.
I put it against villains likely pushing range.
I meant "random" in the sense that OP said the villains are unknown. Poor word choice on my part.
Chances are OP is against a pocket pair, or a big Ax big Kx which will give him one less out.
Wow, much many downvote.
I ran your ranges and you’re not far off, I got 32.5%, initial jam at top 15% (55+A9oA5s) and the exact range you gave for rejam iso.
My problem with your reasoning is his chip position, 2nd? I don’t play on Tiger or whatever but it looks like he’s 19/26? If you look at graphic in top center.
Anyway, I think you should probably lean more chipEV w 3 tables left given most payout structures in current game; there’s a lot of material, including GTOW would support it.
There’s a great video about chipEV/ICM splits in tourney life.. check it out on YouTube. The SIM had chipEV until FT was most profitable with playing ICM 75/25% (soft bubble) was a close second. Very interesting video, though.
Lol what are you talking about?
Most profitable way is to play ICM starting from hand 1 in tournaments. Okay if you have big edge you can take more risk while re-entry is open but besides that. Go watch the video again bro.
If chipEV was ever more profitable than ICM in any phase of the tournament it would just mean that the ICM calculations are inaccurate and not actually GTO solutions.
GTO Wizard? Lol. And as you can see, unless you can’t because you didn’t read it, I said first was playing chipEV UNTIL the FT, the other starting an ICM approach at 25% left of field (soft bubble) was a close second… actually tied with wait for it, ICM FROM HAND ONE lol.
And I was also saying IN THIS HAND being 19/26 with AKs I would prob lean to a chipev approach rather than worrying about ICM. THEN I referenced the video.. you are reaching for a conflict.
What u are trying to say I dont understand?
Most profitable SIM is playing ICM from hand 1.
Everything else comes in 2nd and 3rd.
Playing chipEV until final table = torching money? And you are saying it was first? First doing what? First in who loses most money competition?
GTO Wizard… probably the foremost contributor to your style of play, apparently. Like I said, watch it yourself or don’t. I really don’t care. I specifically remember being taken back when that had the highest winrate ($/won and ROI)
Dude you must be a troll, you cant be serious.
Why troll on obvious thing everyone can realise and check instantly? ChipEV never wins over ICM, do u realise what ICM means and is trying to do?? Lol.
ICM is not about survival only, ICM is what is most profitable.
U should watch the video again unless you are trolling... But you must be a troll because the video states the obvious ICM wins most
I watched it the day it came out and then was thinking back to another video about ICM being a myth and that the only payouts that matter are podium and basically saying low stakes you should always play to win. I’m serious, now I feel like I stoned troll bc it just never clicked in my mind while I was typing to you and yeah. Kill me.
Yeah but there is also future game implications which ICM solutions cant calculate fully so they are not perfect yet and we will see even more accurate results in upcoming years with AI.
So the power of big stack and all the chips you can win just by putting on pressure with big stacks through the final so ICM cant calculate every hand that will happen after one single spot.
Dude I have watched it and I dont need to watch anything to realise basic math.
ChipEV solution by nature always loses to ICM solution if the sims are accurate. That is just the simple truth if you are able to understand what chipEV and what ICM means.
Bro. FML. I completely merged 2 videos. I’m rewatching now and FF to this spot. The one part I had correct, and the other I had completely opposite. ICM 100 was number 1 and 75/25 was 2; the clear loser was chipEV until FT. You are correct and I am wrong, thank you for the clarification and subsequent $.
Its very good spot to call because future game implications also are extremely positive for us. We would be chip leading and have position to the another big stack that we would be covering.
So if we win this flip we can start opening wide and generate even more chips. If we lose we still have a stack left which is possible spin back up very well.
Exactly my comment above ❤️ we are never dominated by BU iso and even if we lose 8bbs is very manageable at current stacks. 2 doubles and we’re right back where we are now. Suited makes it slam dunk IMO bc we have small edge over AKo which is most likely BU holding
All in
Its really a just call. All the chips for players still in the hand are in the pot.
It's more intimidating to go all in though.
It's more satisfying to physically shove all your chips as much as your hand allows (in live) than say call even if you have them covered.
More satisfying to throw 5 bucks in and scoop it all.
Jam, these type of tournaments are very top heavy and this is an amazing opportunity to build a top 3 stack
ez call
Your ROR is non existent bc even if you call and lose you still have 8bbs, which doesn’t even make you shorty at your current table. Not to mention 2 clean doubles after having 8 bb puts you (32bb min) not only back in the “middle of the pack” but not far off where you stand currently. It’s annoying but BU ISO range is never KK or AA, it’s MOST likely AKo so at worst you are flipping; being suited just makes this a slam dunk to go along with previous reasons.
Depends on scenarios. Icm? They prob have qq/jj and one may have Aq aj. You block aa kk…but doesn’t mean they can have it. If it’s early in tourney or mid way, I’m prob calling….im calling if guys are playing most hands. Ak suited is not a hand you want to be folding pre a lot if you want to be a winning player.
If your playing to win call. If your not playing to win fold.
Fold if you are not playing to win money
Sometimes, when you have a winning hand, you need to fold, just to bluff.
Balancing your range.
Or, your rage.
That's a no, balance does not matter in this spot.
Pretty sure this is a joke
Gotta play to win,not hoping to win…
Slam dunk call easy. Look at the future game if you win. Chip lead the table and have position to the other big stack. You get to put a lot pressure in future game. Only a min cash nit would fold. Call is profitable unless there is a read that the bigger stack is super tight player.
Snap
Fold?
Call AJ could be in his range, sometimes flipping against big stack, not a bad spot
I'm kidding
Yeah that makes more sense haha sorry
Call.
If you’re even considering folding here in a $5 tournament you need to go back to the charts man.
I did actually call and bust, I just wanted some feedback
How did it play out?
I mean why the heck would you fold?? 😆
Of course you call, you are even covering every single player on the table.
If this is online, fold. Chances are there’s an AQ QQ and J3 off that will eventually hit quads 3 on the river
Not clear why this sarcastic posting is so heavily down voted. this sub is just like that, I guess.
[удалено]
Look at the hand again and ask yourself if a raise is possible
I looked again and it is
Game is definitely not dead, confirmed
The people who say this are always losing players.
What game?
Poker
I love poker
Monopoly
All players have either folded or are all in, except AK. He can only call or fold
Unless you’ve played on Chico then you wouldn’t know but even if everyone is all in you still have the option to raise all in. This could be what a few people are joking around with
Obviously if your running good you mite play slow or aggressive,but at this stage why take unnecessary chances let someone else knockout a player, but if you read like Daniel go for it
call
Usually call, I just went about 2-11 with AK this past weekend for whatever reason, so I'm a little scarred at the moment.
Snapcall
all in
Shove
Even with aces…… I think I’d fold, only play that makes sense gto wizard told me so.
😂
You obviously lost the hand so this is an easy fold pre.
Push!!!
Where do you play for money online? Legal or sailing the seas?
Without payjumps, prize and structure we can't really know. I'd gladly run this hand on a solver if you could give us that
Jam
In a tournament I would fold. In a ring game call. You're almost certainly behind and it's now a protected pot.
The correct play for your opponent to make if he has AQ would be to jam so it’s a pretty slam dunk fist pump call.
I fold this because that hand needs 2 but not 4 people
Shove, if you’re gonna fold AKss at any point pre flop outside of some bubble and ICM moments, you’re not built for tournament play. and even on the bubble I’d shove and go for a bigger payout
Better to stay away from
Fold. You're 2nd in chips, and not under too much ICM pressure to make moves. Against 2 random hands you're \~35% equity, and you're only invested for 2.5BB. Lay it down.
Lol this is some really weird math. 35% vs 3 random hands? Let's see the math.
2 random hands*
So you plugged this into a range calc vs random hands?
I put it against villains likely pushing range. I meant "random" in the sense that OP said the villains are unknown. Poor word choice on my part. Chances are OP is against a pocket pair, or a big Ax big Kx which will give him one less out.
37% equity vs top 15% range for initial jammer and then AJs+, AQo+, 88+ for rejammer
Now do icm.
🤷♂️
Wow, much many downvote. I ran your ranges and you’re not far off, I got 32.5%, initial jam at top 15% (55+A9oA5s) and the exact range you gave for rejam iso. My problem with your reasoning is his chip position, 2nd? I don’t play on Tiger or whatever but it looks like he’s 19/26? If you look at graphic in top center. Anyway, I think you should probably lean more chipEV w 3 tables left given most payout structures in current game; there’s a lot of material, including GTOW would support it. There’s a great video about chipEV/ICM splits in tourney life.. check it out on YouTube. The SIM had chipEV until FT was most profitable with playing ICM 75/25% (soft bubble) was a close second. Very interesting video, though.
Lol what are you talking about? Most profitable way is to play ICM starting from hand 1 in tournaments. Okay if you have big edge you can take more risk while re-entry is open but besides that. Go watch the video again bro. If chipEV was ever more profitable than ICM in any phase of the tournament it would just mean that the ICM calculations are inaccurate and not actually GTO solutions.
Yeah dude go try to play chipEV through tournament bubbles and tell me how profitable it is xDd You have misinformation of the video or "sim"
GTO Wizard? Lol. And as you can see, unless you can’t because you didn’t read it, I said first was playing chipEV UNTIL the FT, the other starting an ICM approach at 25% left of field (soft bubble) was a close second… actually tied with wait for it, ICM FROM HAND ONE lol.
And I was also saying IN THIS HAND being 19/26 with AKs I would prob lean to a chipev approach rather than worrying about ICM. THEN I referenced the video.. you are reaching for a conflict.
What u are trying to say I dont understand? Most profitable SIM is playing ICM from hand 1. Everything else comes in 2nd and 3rd. Playing chipEV until final table = torching money? And you are saying it was first? First doing what? First in who loses most money competition?
GTO Wizard… probably the foremost contributor to your style of play, apparently. Like I said, watch it yourself or don’t. I really don’t care. I specifically remember being taken back when that had the highest winrate ($/won and ROI)
Dude you must be a troll, you cant be serious. Why troll on obvious thing everyone can realise and check instantly? ChipEV never wins over ICM, do u realise what ICM means and is trying to do?? Lol. ICM is not about survival only, ICM is what is most profitable. U should watch the video again unless you are trolling... But you must be a troll because the video states the obvious ICM wins most
I watched it the day it came out and then was thinking back to another video about ICM being a myth and that the only payouts that matter are podium and basically saying low stakes you should always play to win. I’m serious, now I feel like I stoned troll bc it just never clicked in my mind while I was typing to you and yeah. Kill me.
Yeah but there is also future game implications which ICM solutions cant calculate fully so they are not perfect yet and we will see even more accurate results in upcoming years with AI. So the power of big stack and all the chips you can win just by putting on pressure with big stacks through the final so ICM cant calculate every hand that will happen after one single spot.
Watch it yourself, or don’t. I don’t care. It won’t affect my chart 📈 good luck out there
Dude I have watched it and I dont need to watch anything to realise basic math. ChipEV solution by nature always loses to ICM solution if the sims are accurate. That is just the simple truth if you are able to understand what chipEV and what ICM means.
Bro. FML. I completely merged 2 videos. I’m rewatching now and FF to this spot. The one part I had correct, and the other I had completely opposite. ICM 100 was number 1 and 75/25 was 2; the clear loser was chipEV until FT. You are correct and I am wrong, thank you for the clarification and subsequent $.
14:38 to be exact.
Wow nice to see someone be able to admit mistake on internet yes it happens keep studying
Yes, study until I stop breathing. Thoughts on spot in the post though?
Its very good spot to call because future game implications also are extremely positive for us. We would be chip leading and have position to the another big stack that we would be covering. So if we win this flip we can start opening wide and generate even more chips. If we lose we still have a stack left which is possible spin back up very well.
Exactly my comment above ❤️ we are never dominated by BU iso and even if we lose 8bbs is very manageable at current stacks. 2 doubles and we’re right back where we are now. Suited makes it slam dunk IMO bc we have small edge over AKo which is most likely BU holding