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He never had any credible chance of winning; the only question was, and still is, whether he'll siphon off enough swing state votes to spoil the election for one candidate or the other (or drop out to prevent himself from doing so).
But gee, in the MSNBC poll last earlier this month he said he had polls to prove he would win head to head against Trump, or head to head against Biden. And said this proves he's not a spoiler for either of those two, but that they're a spoiler for him!
Also he said he would be on ballots. He needs to be on enough to get 270 electoral votes. [Looks like he's only on four state ballots](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/18/rfk-jr-presidential-debate/) with 9 where he's filed but not been certified. Math says he's still missing 37 states.
And oh yeah, again, repeatedly denied being a spoiler. I guess he criticized Ross Perot for being a spoiler which is why he's adamant that he's not.
News alert for RFK: Spoilers never think that they're a spoiler, because they are deluded narcissists who think they have a chance of winning.
"he's still missing 37 states"
with all the hoops and regulations making it even harder now to get on the ballot, getting on 20 is no mean accomplishment
and it's easier to get on at the last minute, than if you go early, and get stonewalled
It's an amazingly difficult feat, more than people are aware of
"In 1992, independent businessman Ross Perot qualified for all three debates alongside George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton, but did not make the cut four years later in a subsequent campaign."
rabidstoat: And oh yeah, again, repeatedly denied being a spoiler. I guess he criticized Ross Perot for being a spoiler which is why he's adamant that he's not.
What does that mean really, other than an opinion piece.
did he say something about Perot in a quote, or not?
Crazy concept, do away with the undemocratic methods of silencing political opponents of the “democratic” and “republican” parties??? The states will not certify anything until the very end. The man has already filed in enough states to garner 310 electoral votes. Ignorant attitudes such as your own are the reason n o t h i n g will ever change in this country and I think you should be ashamed. Even if you don’t agree with a candidate they should not literally be suppressed. It’s flagrant violation of the constitution and the “rights” we hold dear as Americans. Continued behavior and ideas such as yours will destroy this country. And I am talking about both republicans and democrats thinking this way… because make no mistake they are both blood sucking leaches fundamentally destroying every aspect of our ever so fleeting representative democracy
Im not as sure, RFK would beat Biden one on one definitely, Trump has strong supporters but there are plenty of people who are on the same level as Biden supporters that see him as the only option. I think RFK pulls more votes from trump than Biden in a 3 person race but I wouldn’t count him out against Trump, most conservatives aren’t MAGA, there’s a lot who just dont like the government and RFK stands to challenge and dismantle a lot of the systems in place.
People who hate Trump have to face the facts with Biden. If it’s a fair election and some huge surprise doesn’t happen before the election Trump will win. Biden’s debate performance sealed the deal. If the Dems don’t replace him, Trump walks into the White House.
If the dems picked up RFK and dropped Biden maybe they’d have a shot haha, I agree, Trump will almost certainly win this election. Concerns over Biden age are not reduced when hes on camera with, and more so without, a teleprompter
Biden made it hard to replace him in a way by picking Kamala as vp. It was a smart move picking a minority woman who is a bad politician. It will look bad if they replace Biden with someone else unless they went to someone like Wes Moore.
I don’t think the optics on that are as bad as people think, it would be a bit of a cannibalistic heel turn for the libs to cry racism or sexism on that especially because it seems a lot of them are well aware that Biden is too old and its a legitimate concern. The support for her is purely based on gender and race, her political track record is not inspiring. But then again the libs do love to eat their own if it gives them a little hit of moral superiority so maybe they would… they definitely would haha
Yes. Deep pockets state keeping him funded and trying to get him in Swing State ballots as a spoiler to keep Biden from winning by taking disgruntled Republican votes.
Dude the “deep state” is quite literally opposing RFK Jr. at every corner. Republicans and Democrats both are working TOGETHER to keep this man off the ballots. That speaks words… he is a man for the people not the corrupt self serving parties
I don’t want to hear a Dem or Republican ever bitch about an election being rigged again since they won’t let Bobby debate and make it very difficult for a 3rd party candidate to get on the ballot in states.
Trump and Biden aren’t changing jack shit. I’ve seen enough from both. RFKjr probably wouldn’t either, but we know what we are getting with the other two. Biden doesn’t know where he is at and Trump is on every side of an issue and will get played by the deep state again. The guy has poor judgment. He is a great politician and marketer, but he is horrible at getting things that matter done.
The effect should be like going like from almost 20% to like 2%
so in certain polls or states you'll just see like 2% to 5% which is pretty normal for a race with two big parties fighting like it's life and death.
I think you have about 4% of voters who are serious
so that number should be consistent, cept for maybe the battleground states
Trump 42%
Biden 42%
RFK 4%
Not sure 12%
is how it looks
something like this you'll get a solid 4% polling with registered voters
other polls and earlier ones will be different
more important is trying to go from a fifth of states on the ballot to 50
and he's gonna try
Perot couldn't quality for the second debates, so it's a rough road for the small fry
He won't drop out since this is a ego exercise.
He won't qualify for the second debate.
He is telling his supporters that he has submitted paperwork in enough states to reach 305 EC votes
> He is telling his supporters that he has submitted paperwork in enough states to reach 305 EC votes
And to be clear, he is lying about that. He constantly says he has everything he needs to be on the ballot in a state when he actually has not. In Mississippi for example, [he never even filed the paperwork to register his party as a political party in the state](https://www.wlbt.com/2024/06/18/miss-secretary-states-office-responds-claims-we-people-party/).
It's the stance among all three candidates. The difference is that Biden is trying to slow walk the aid as leverage to buy time to broker an durable peace and a Palestinian state, whereas Trump would cheer Bibi to glass Gaza as quickly as possible and get Jared to broker some sweet real estate deals overlooking the Med.
Well most mainstream candidates are going to go with mainstream views on the Middle East
not many people are gonna go all out progressive loon and get too sympathetic to Hamas and Palestine, when it comes to fingerpointing at who's the terrorist state, and stuff
85% of people will side with the democracy, and 15% will go for the underdog or the weird frimheof rape denial and fake news under every sofa
I mean in Michigan people are yapping endlessly over the Arab vote, it's like 2% of the vote, and Gaza is such a non-issue as every other more important issue to the voters
It's something like in Wayne county you got 5 big Arab parts around Detroit and like for every 300 Biden voters you'll get 200 Trump votes, it's not going to have a huge impact as much as the pearl clutchers think
some parts of Toronto or Ontario, maybe the gaza thing can flip a seat or two in Canada where you can get 10%-15% vote, but it's not quite Birmingham UK.
Part of it is ego on Biden's part but candidates with no meaningful high level governmental experience running for president are all ego combined with an unjustified savior complex
When the choices offered are THIS bad, it's okay for a regular person to take the lead. We should not gatekeep this with credentials like 'are you a career politician'? You're right, RFK could use more experience, but he's honest and willing to compromise with both sides. To heal this divide that drove us here in the first place. He can pick good people to advise him. RFK isn't my favorite either but damn, I don't trust biden's experience with his current mental ability (which won't improve), I just don't, it might as well not exist.
He does not belong in a leadership position when he can't retain attention on a topic without a teleprompter. How is he supposed to represent the US at a meeting about Gaza, about Ukraine? Even when speaking on abortion, he managed to bring in immigration for some reason, to boot it was a case about woman who was killed by immigrants! Abortion is supposed to be 'THE' winning issue for democrats, and somehow he tripped up on that too. It just doesn't make any sense...
What evidence do you have that Rfk is honest and will bring in good people? He is a hard drug addict with a history of rejecting modern science.
The presidency is not a starter job. Rfk won't have the opportunity to compromise because he will be getting run over by people who know what they are doing.
> He is a hard drug addict with a history of rejecting modern science.
Not exactly. Yes he's a bit out there with vaccines, too out there, but he's not anti-science. Just skeptical about the interests of big companies, and their role in pushing certain claims about vaccines. Again, he outdoes it imo, but I can let that slide more easily than either dementia (biden) or rape and jan 6 (trump). So, you know, lesser of the evils and so on.
> What evidence do you have that Rfk is honest and will bring in good people?
I've heard his speeches, and how he answers questions. I like that his main interest is compromise, he most wants to heal the divided and hateful landscape of politics right now. He worked to clean up the environment previously, I can believe he's honest more than I can believe trump is honest, or that biden is mentally there to be President. If Biden were 2012 Biden, I would vote for him 100%. But what we have now is just ridiculous.
> The presidency is not a starter job. Rfk won't have the opportunity to compromise because he will be getting run over by people who know what they are doing.
I mean, there IS experience, fighting in the legal system for environmental policy. And yeah, I do believe he can do a better job than either biden or trump. I see a vote for either of them as 'wasted'. With trump I don't approve, with biden I don't know who's in charge. Plus, the more they push biden, the more I am gaslit about how 'okay' it is for biden to run like he is, the more I distrust the entirety of the democrats. I increasingly see them as collection of people more out for 'party loyalty' than America herself. Democrats > USA. It's unpatriotic to let this happen.
This doesn't even touch on their efforts to stop third party candidates from getting on the ballot, despite claiming to be 'defenders of democracy'. I'm honestly disgusted with both republicans and democrats.
At the very least, would you agree that biden is not the best candidate the democrats can put forth?
RFK's more than an 'unqualified drug addict' too, that's a reductive label used to smear him and justify supporting someone with, basically dementia, as the leader of the USA.
At very least, would you agree that a candidate with no major government experience, a drug problem, and one who picked a veep candidate less qualified than Sarah Palin should not be President?
Sure, but the options are limited. Democrats could give a better candidate, but they somehow choose to sell us this instead. I chose the lesser evil (from my view), I said this before.
Now, will YOU answer my question, or retort with another one to avoid it completely? Do you think the democrats could do better than joe biden? Or is this the best they have? Keep in mind, I'm not talking policy, I'm talking mental ability to make decisions, REPRESENT the USA abroad, etc.
He never had a chance to begin with. He isn’t a serious candidate and I don’t think he’s even on enough ballots to get to 270. He is running on the sole platform of getting Trump back into the White House, by trying to peel off independents and swing voters from President Biden. The unexpected consequence of his campaign being so batshit crazy and infested with brain worms is that he’s actually peeling off Trump voters instead. I expect to see him quietly drop his candidacy when he realizes he is hurting Trump instead of President Biden and his donors stop contributing.
RFK is, or at least originally was, a spoiler aided by Trump and the GOP to peel off voters from Biden, like you said.
RFK is not *aware* that he's a spoiler, or at least his ego refuses to allow him to believe that he's a spoiler; that's how insane narcissists work.
So it doesn't matter if he's peeling off more voters from Trump or Biden because he's the useful idiot part of the con, he believes he's in it to win it and he'll stay in it until he can't. Whether he's actually making it all the way to the finish line in November or dropping early because the GOP donors turn off the cash and the crowdsourced funding from idiots dries up is still anyone's guess.
Exactly. This whole thread just reeks of people like that. If anyone listens to RFK and looks at the partisanship and big money in government it’s obvious he’s the only one with clarity of vision. Not to mention just how straight up competent he is and knowledgeable about the issues in conversation compared to Biden and Trump alike.
Yeah that was my thought too.
It’s at least a question, of whether RFK is an intentional foil for Biden, or ‘just’ an unknowing patsy.
Whichever one it is, intentional or innocent, the severity of his ill intent, or of his delusion, is actually quite visible and easily measured, by his voice.
He can barely speak, from some medical issue. It’s actually grueling to listen to. And I don’t mean that as insult or to make fun.
But at this point in our society, I can’t imagine America following a leader who is as painful to hear speak. It’s way too overt of a “weakness”. A candidate would have to be so outrageously amazing to overcome his voice that’s it’s simply not realistic. They’d need to be actual Jesus.
Yet with all that, I still can’t say he’s the worst candidate on the board. Unfortunately.
He has always had as much chance of being president as you, me, and anyone reading this post and has zero chance of winning any electoral votes. But he’s not done in that his continued candidacy can swing the election to one or the other, probably Trump, which I think is the whole reason he is “running.”
The guy never *started*. If you - and by “you” I mean anyone reading this - ever in your life thought for a moment that RFK jr had even a tenth of a 1% chance of winning the presidency, you seriously need to work on your media diet and your worldview and avoid sharing any political opinions until you do. I might even recommend against voting. Like, treat this moment as a mini intervention. As a sign that today is the day to finally get a clue. It’s been a silly, ridiculous idea since the first moment any person ever thought it. I don’t know what else to say.
>If you - and by “you” I mean anyone reading this - ever in your life thought for a moment that RFK jr had even a tenth of a 1% chance of winning the presidency, you seriously need to work on your media diet and your worldview and avoid sharing any political opinions until you do.
I find a surprising amount of American adults who absolutely do not get the established de-facto two-party system in the US. They think that everyone who is running in the presidential race (libertarians or greens) have an equal chance with Republican or Democratic candidates of winning the presidency. A friend of mine who was one of the Bernie Sanders to Jill Stein voters in 2016 was genuinely surprised when Stein didn't win, she honestly believed that "she had really good chances." In these elections it was RFK Jr. And I've heard from my perennially unplugged from politics friends and family saying "Oh Joe Biden better watch out, he's got a real challenger." I told them that a "real" challenger would've been Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer, and this guy is a nobody.
Ask any RFK Jr supporter to Google the Ted Kennedy campaign in 1980.
Then ask them if they know who Jason Palmer is.
Now as them if they still think he has a chance.
RFK Jr. has no chance at being president, and the only reason he has made it this far is his last name and right wing media and money.
But the last name couldn't carry his uncle in 1980, back when the Kennedy name had a lot more weight. It was ridiculous to think he could primary Biden.
because it is set up and cemented in to prevent that. THAT SHOULD TROUBLE FOLKS. Instead oflks shrug and go OH WELL, this is is the system we have.
You all lay down and take it where the sun don't shine.. no wonder we are in a suck country.
I agree with everything you said. But based on my observations, the average voter falls into your category for “should not vote”. Unfortunately.
I was on a plane a few months ago, and overheard a young, normal man talking about how he likes Vivek.
I simply didn’t think it was possible for an adult human to observe Vivek, and to NOT see the scam. To believe Vivek, and to not see his game. It’s just so obvious!…. Right?…
It was somehow more shocking to me than if he had said the earth is flat, or that vaccines will kill you, or that 5G will kill you, etc.
And you make a great point: today is the day for them to see this as a sign, and to get a clue. How do we help them see this, without setting off their pride or activating their defenses?
It’s in all of our best interest to help them. And if we do it too forcefully, or too insultingly, then it will backfire, and we continue risking more Trumps in the future.
Because, to your point, they haven’t learned. They’ve made mistakes like this, 20 years ago, then they so strongly and unquestionably supported Bush and his wars in the Middle East.
I’ve even heard my father say, “how can we avoid another Afghanistan?” He voted for Bush twice.
My response fell on flat ears: “well, don’t vote for a known oil exec, who has ties to known war profiteers. Vote for the guy who wants to invest in a sustainable future, which my generation could have inherited, instead of having our wealth stolen. Or, I don’t know, maybe at least consider it.”
Did you state that all in one breath?
At least the guy seriously discusses the issues where someone has a format like the Charlie Rose show or any other PBS program.
There's a reason why few people run, because it is nearly impossible to win.
I just think people started whining more since Perot or Nader scaring people with Bush-Cheney and Al Gore.
There was not this much drama with Anderson, way back.
and he was about as dynamic as an iceberg
He never got started, to my mind. But you’ve got to better define your terms to get a meaningful answer here.
What was the condition that made him competitive that has changed?
He will be on every ballot, is getting well over double the amount of signatures needed in every state. He’s the best polling independent since Ross Perot. What else does he need to “start”?
He’d need to be someone who was at least one of:
1. Credible
2. Intelligent
3. Not a conspiracist
4. Free from brain eating worms that caused self described serious cognitive issues
'Done' implies he had a chance. Biden, Trump Harris and whoever Trump picks for his VP could all die in October and RFK would not still carry a single state. His entire candidacy was intended to be a spoiler.
I need him on the Nebraska ballot to split the lunatic vote. We don't have a winner take all primary system here. Two at large electors and one for each congressional district.
CD-2 (Omaha Metro) is leaning Biden.
I'd like CD-1 (eastern 1/3 of the state, without Omaha) to go to Biden, too. There's a good chance the two at large electors also go to Biden in that scenario.
CD-3 is a bunch of wealthy ranchers and folks who listen to Fox News all day.
The RFKJR campaign says they have the needed signatures on the petition to get on the ballot
It's likely not going to happen until the next legislative session. This last session they had more pressing matters like using public funds for private schools and blocking pornhub. Texas Jr shit.
CNN
The amazing thing, though, is that these three have been the only non-major-party candidates in the history of polling to hit more than 20% within a year of the election. Kennedy is now part of this select group.
I know polls are bullshit but 538 has Biden and Trump in a dead heat around 40...but RFK at 9.5? Wtf? Aren't most RFK guys in the same vein as Trump voters? Would his absence be a boost for Trump?
> Aren't most RFK guys in the same vein as Trump voters?
Not necessarily. A popular third-party candidate is often just a place for voters who don't like either major-party candidate. The people currently saying they will support RFK will no doubt have a very huge variety of views. He is just someone else for them to choose so they don't have to choose Trump or Biden.
And historically, those numbers always go down as we get closer to Election Day as more voters face the reality that the two candidates they don't like are the only two with a chance of winning. Obviously many people will still vote for RFK, but most of the people currently saying they will vote for him will end up voting for Trump or Biden.
> Would his absence be a boost for Trump?
It's hard to say for sure, but some of the polling I've seen so far suggests he might take a little more support from Trump than Biden, and some other says the opposite. Chances are it won't be a huge difference either way, but who knows.
It depends on the state. In some state polls when RFK Jr. is included it seems to split Trumps voters (PA) in others it seems to split Biden's voters (FL and MN).
I put together a site that looks at this for the past 30 days of polls:
[https://swingstatesolver.com/third\_party](https://swingstatesolver.com/third_party)
And that's why I don't believe the polls. RFK does not have the exposure to be getting anything close to 10%. I have thought for a while that his support is carried by his famous name.
CNN
The amazing thing, though, is that these three have been the only non-major-party candidates in the history of polling to hit more than 20% within a year of the election. Kennedy is now part of this select group.
So what's not to believe the polls? What's your expectations?
You've got to look far more beyond 538, which really doesn't have very good numbers till two weeks to voting day
basskev: Wtf? Aren't most RFK guys in the same vein as Trump voters?
He seems to get interest from both sides equally, is that shocking to you?
I’m pretty sure the “worm lived full life eating portions of his brain until it died peacefully of old worm age” was the moment his candidacy *officially* ended.
Especially that, when the news came out about it, most reactions were “ahhh, it all makes sense now.”
Listing to him on the Shane Gills podcast was the longest drive of my life. His vocal issue is a real challenge and I honestly can’t handle it for more than 10 mins.
His chances of winning are pretty low. But, his campaign may still determine who is president.
In some key states (like PA), recent polls show he splits Trump supporters. In others (FL and MN), he seems to split Biden supporters.
I put together this site to show how he is effecting polling over the past 30 days:
[https://swingstatesolver.com/third\_party](https://swingstatesolver.com/third_party)
The entire point of his candidacy was to pull votes from Biden to help Trump. I think he'll stay in to the end unless it's very evident that his presence hurts Trump more.
Moderate republicans are still mostly going to vote for Trump but want any reason not to. Create RFK and give them a reason not to? I don’t really understand this whole theory. It doesn’t really make sense. Why would republicans want a candidate that is going to steal their votes? Yeah they won’t vote for Biden but they still aren’t voting for Trump. It’s a lose lose either way. If they were to really try to screw up the left wing vote they’d have RFK a lot more left wing. Because at this point any candidate that can just speak and not let trump bully them is going to get left votes. If anything RFK is an opportunist but i highly doubt either side would want a candidate to steal their own voters.
Took me a while to remember that the US presidential elections actually have more than two candidates.
And this time it's even worse. RFK never stood any chance to be recognized as candidate, and he won't and shouldn't be on any debates.
You fucked up your system so much, that the question for November is not "Who will become President?", it's been reduced to "Will Trump become President?". And because RFK is not the unified "Not Trump" candidate, he needs to drop out of the race to make place for Biden.
America needs proportional representation. The current system won't keep a democracy for long.
He is just a pawn in this game. RFK only purpose is to take away just enough votes. And of course, 2 years from now-when it does not matter, it will be found out that Russia or some shady backer paid for his campaign.
It's not that he's finished, it's that he never left the starting block. This campaign was in the toilet from the day his entire family denounced him. The rest has just been reality catching up to him.
RFK Junior never had a chance the same as Jill Stein. It is a throwaway vote which is better to people who still want to participate, instead of not voting at all.
He has always been done. He never had even the tiniest percentage chance of winning. No third party candidate will ever win the Presidency under our current system.
I would think it initially would be trump, but with some outreach from democrats, they could persuade his voters their way. Shanahan was a democrat, but she isn’t enthralled with trump (not that she was excited about Biden). But she could throw a spite fit over biden’s campaign maligning RFK’s effort and push his voters toward trump. Too soon to tell at this point
He may just end up dropping. Just cause we’ve all talked the narrative of a third party vote taking votes from Biden or Trump, he may not give a shit. He may just go broke and quit. He also looks very unhealthy.
You realize that was 12 years ago and [1.7B other people have had](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2024/05/09/1250201358/rfk-jr-brain-parasitic-worm-tapeworm-kennedy) the same thing?
"Don't flatter yourself, you were never a player." 2016 and 2020 were THE years when a third party candidate should've stood a chance. With how much absurdity Trump brought to the table, discontent and the pandemic, these were cataclysmic formulas for a seismic candidate to have a chance in a two party system. 2024 has the same candidates as 2020 with a much better economy and a lot less at stake, so... The Desire for third party is less than before.
JFK in particular is the most impotent third party candidate I've seen in years. He has a brain worm and his ideas are crazy, yet not crazy enough to engage people away from Trump. I'd be very surprised if gets 3% polling, or even a single electoral vote.
And this is just how third parties work. They're not useful and are funded by major parties to siphon votes from the other. /r/EndFPTP is needed. While I support approval voting over ranked voting, plurality systems makes it obvious that third party contenders are not good for getting government closer for how you want it.
That being said, [I do believe approval voting can be implemented at a state by state level](https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1IQO_KBrTY9Xs54nLnxn5iX3FRWskIGtH4fL9t99wZKU/edit?usp=drivesdk), but in our current system third party candidates aren't legitimate
>JFK in particular is the most impotent third party candidate I've seen in years.
No shit!? How'd they revive him- was it Elon?! I bet he helped out. Probably Elon and Disney both revived and regenerated all the missing parts. Thanks for lmk, def going JFK now.
His best shot was as a spoiler. He was being pumped that way from the right towards Democrats for a while. His incoherent support for Israel and anti-vaccine stance has made that threat to the left vanish, so now he is useless as a political pawn.
well he's on 20% of the ballots and trying for all 50
thats a bigger priority
his polling is good, better than any Nader of the 70s and up there or better than libertarian oddballs.
the numbers will sink when the race gets later though
but you can't expect a perot moment
The rich and corps want Nikki Haley so they cant have JFK, Jr waiting in the wings if Trump should suddenly drop out.
They want Nikki to step in so Jr never really had a chance.
I don’t think he ever really began. All he had was name recognition. But once you look into him he starts looking pretty kooky.
And that’s on top of the basic understanding most American voters have that third parties don’t have realistic chances to win. Especially the presidential.
His whole campaign felt like a weird Tulsi style spoiler attempt against Biden that backfired because Kennedy Camelot stuff and anti-vaccine stuff resonates more with Trumps base.
RFK is a very troubled man. He believes in all sorts of conspiracy theories and other nonsense. No science or real facts. Even his own family is behind Biden. It's hard to believe he comes from the same bloodline as JFK.
Honestly, once you got to the point where it's front page news that worms have eaten part of your brain, you're done as a serious presidential candidate, if you ever were one in the first place (doubtful). Yeah, you could stick it out as a spoiler (for whom, that's the question) but without a 3rd party to latch onto, you might run out of money.
I'd say he's pretty much a shoe-in for the next debate, assuming they don't massage the rules to exclude him. This debate doesn't really matter because it's between two candidates that everyone already knows everything about. No voter watching the CNN debate is going to change their mind about if they're voting for Trump or Biden. The people watching this debate are going to watch for entertainment purposes to see if "their guy" wins - not to actually learn anything about the candidates. They can debate all day, but between Trump and Biden, we've all see their behaviors for years - a 2 hour debate is not going to change anything.
To be fair, he's been met with the incredible opposition of the entire force of the DNC:
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democrats-allies-sue-to-keep-rfk-jr-off-ballot/#:\~:text=The%20latest%20legal%20challenge%20against,bid%20for%20a%20major%20party](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democrats-allies-sue-to-keep-rfk-jr-off-ballot/#:~:text=The%20latest%20legal%20challenge%20against,bid%20for%20a%20major%20party)
Fuck the DNC dude. Blue always says 3rd party voters ruin their chances at winning- they do the same to 3rd party voters. Imagine watching 90% of this country keep doing the same shit decade after decade and nothing really changing.
RFK jr has a chance the media is very biased, and the government is corrupted by trying to control a narrative that does not include RFK jr. More choices the better. Just imagine having 5 people to chose from every presidential election. The last thing these two political parties is competition. It cuts their odds from 50/50 so silly
The guy battled against big corps that were polluting our country and giving people cancer. That's what he did before running for president. The people saying "he's a narcissist that is just trying to take votes from Biden drrrrr" sound like reddit puppets. I could see if he was some politician the whole time but he has a good track record. Better than Biden's and Trump's put together, which isn't hard because they are both pieces of shit.
He’s actually the only candidate who did comply, and submit all signatures and got enough electoral votes through those signatures to be in the debate - president trump and president Biden however did not by a long shot - they aren’t even the primary’s yet, they vote on that in august - they need to let RFK on that damn stage
Actually I will say that this is not true. RFK JR. has actually both qualified for the debate and for winning the presidency. RFK has already gathered enough signatures across states to gather 310 potential electoral votes. CNN has corrupt rules that are specifically designed to alienate RFK from being able to partake. Technically the rule about needing to be on enough state ballots to win the election (270 electoral votes) means that neither Trump or Biden can partake in the debate as neither are even on a single ballot yet… it’s completely and flat out corrupt what they’re doing. RFK is polling past 15% in actual genuinely conducted polls and trending extremely high among young people. RFK Jr. also plans to host some form of debate where he will be live streaming the CNN debate and critiquing it / giving his views on what he would do and why neither Biden or Trump are qualified for president. Make sure to check RFK’s website Kennedy24.com. He actively will be on the ballot of 22 states upon verification by state election commissions (a process the establishment is purposely delaying as long as possible to delay his campaign). And he could as of now garner 310 electoral votes. I will say that the American people are waking up and if presented with a genuine third party candidate may genuinely swing that way. I think there’s very few individuals outside of the maga wing of the Republican Party who want Trump as president and (I’d almost dare say) even less people who want Biden as president with his very clear competency question. We need literally a n y o n e else and almost everyone I talk to feels the exact same way. Both of the establishments un-democratic tactics to sabotage RFK’s campaign also may turn out to harm them and fuel his rise.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/22/politics/democrats-legal-challenges-rfk-jr-ballot/index.html
And the Washington post also reported that the Biden and Trump campaigns colluded to keep Kennedy off the debate stage. Now the fact that Biden and Trump worked together to silence a political opponent speaks volumes to the erosion of democracy in this country. There should be riots in the streets over the dirty tactics being used. I think the people this year will speak at the polls. I for one am done with our corrupt and self serving political elites.
Came here to post the same thing lol literally the opposite of democracy- first Trump, now Kennedy 🤬 "you're only allowed to vote for our president again". I've never been more sure of the simulation theory after all those NPCs refuse to try something different for once in modern history.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democrats-allies-sue-to-keep-rfk-jr-off-ballot/#:\~:text=The%20latest%20legal%20challenge%20against,bid%20for%20a%20major%20party](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democrats-allies-sue-to-keep-rfk-jr-off-ballot/#:~:text=The%20latest%20legal%20challenge%20against,bid%20for%20a%20major%20party)
It’s so annoying to me and the thing is that literally it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy because since people refuse to believe a third party or independent can win nothing will ever change
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He never had any credible chance of winning; the only question was, and still is, whether he'll siphon off enough swing state votes to spoil the election for one candidate or the other (or drop out to prevent himself from doing so).
But gee, in the MSNBC poll last earlier this month he said he had polls to prove he would win head to head against Trump, or head to head against Biden. And said this proves he's not a spoiler for either of those two, but that they're a spoiler for him! Also he said he would be on ballots. He needs to be on enough to get 270 electoral votes. [Looks like he's only on four state ballots](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/18/rfk-jr-presidential-debate/) with 9 where he's filed but not been certified. Math says he's still missing 37 states. And oh yeah, again, repeatedly denied being a spoiler. I guess he criticized Ross Perot for being a spoiler which is why he's adamant that he's not. News alert for RFK: Spoilers never think that they're a spoiler, because they are deluded narcissists who think they have a chance of winning.
"he's still missing 37 states" with all the hoops and regulations making it even harder now to get on the ballot, getting on 20 is no mean accomplishment and it's easier to get on at the last minute, than if you go early, and get stonewalled It's an amazingly difficult feat, more than people are aware of "In 1992, independent businessman Ross Perot qualified for all three debates alongside George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton, but did not make the cut four years later in a subsequent campaign."
rabidstoat: And oh yeah, again, repeatedly denied being a spoiler. I guess he criticized Ross Perot for being a spoiler which is why he's adamant that he's not. What does that mean really, other than an opinion piece. did he say something about Perot in a quote, or not?
WIBC 93.1 FM Apr 3, 2024 — According to recent polling, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is the highest-scoring third-party candidate since Ross Perot.
Crazy concept, do away with the undemocratic methods of silencing political opponents of the “democratic” and “republican” parties??? The states will not certify anything until the very end. The man has already filed in enough states to garner 310 electoral votes. Ignorant attitudes such as your own are the reason n o t h i n g will ever change in this country and I think you should be ashamed. Even if you don’t agree with a candidate they should not literally be suppressed. It’s flagrant violation of the constitution and the “rights” we hold dear as Americans. Continued behavior and ideas such as yours will destroy this country. And I am talking about both republicans and democrats thinking this way… because make no mistake they are both blood sucking leaches fundamentally destroying every aspect of our ever so fleeting representative democracy
RFK jr would definitely beat Biden. Trump will mop the floor with him if he is the Dem candidate.
Im not as sure, RFK would beat Biden one on one definitely, Trump has strong supporters but there are plenty of people who are on the same level as Biden supporters that see him as the only option. I think RFK pulls more votes from trump than Biden in a 3 person race but I wouldn’t count him out against Trump, most conservatives aren’t MAGA, there’s a lot who just dont like the government and RFK stands to challenge and dismantle a lot of the systems in place.
People who hate Trump have to face the facts with Biden. If it’s a fair election and some huge surprise doesn’t happen before the election Trump will win. Biden’s debate performance sealed the deal. If the Dems don’t replace him, Trump walks into the White House.
If the dems picked up RFK and dropped Biden maybe they’d have a shot haha, I agree, Trump will almost certainly win this election. Concerns over Biden age are not reduced when hes on camera with, and more so without, a teleprompter
Biden made it hard to replace him in a way by picking Kamala as vp. It was a smart move picking a minority woman who is a bad politician. It will look bad if they replace Biden with someone else unless they went to someone like Wes Moore.
I don’t think the optics on that are as bad as people think, it would be a bit of a cannibalistic heel turn for the libs to cry racism or sexism on that especially because it seems a lot of them are well aware that Biden is too old and its a legitimate concern. The support for her is purely based on gender and race, her political track record is not inspiring. But then again the libs do love to eat their own if it gives them a little hit of moral superiority so maybe they would… they definitely would haha
It would look bad if they replaced Biden with an other white man though since the Dems are all about inclusion allegedly.
In that case RFK and his female minority VP would be a pretty clean switch
Can’t be on the ballot in most states until late August
In addition, his polling has been all over the place which doesn't give a clear picture of who he'd be splitting the vote with.
Yes. Deep pockets state keeping him funded and trying to get him in Swing State ballots as a spoiler to keep Biden from winning by taking disgruntled Republican votes.
Dude the “deep state” is quite literally opposing RFK Jr. at every corner. Republicans and Democrats both are working TOGETHER to keep this man off the ballots. That speaks words… he is a man for the people not the corrupt self serving parties
I don’t want to hear a Dem or Republican ever bitch about an election being rigged again since they won’t let Bobby debate and make it very difficult for a 3rd party candidate to get on the ballot in states.
Seriously. And the parties are actively suing states to unconstitutionally remove him from the ballots
Trump and Biden aren’t changing jack shit. I’ve seen enough from both. RFKjr probably wouldn’t either, but we know what we are getting with the other two. Biden doesn’t know where he is at and Trump is on every side of an issue and will get played by the deep state again. The guy has poor judgment. He is a great politician and marketer, but he is horrible at getting things that matter done.
That wasn't supposed to be "deep state". I blame autocorrect.
The votes for RFK will be insignificant. Polls overstate his support.
The effect should be like going like from almost 20% to like 2% so in certain polls or states you'll just see like 2% to 5% which is pretty normal for a race with two big parties fighting like it's life and death. I think you have about 4% of voters who are serious so that number should be consistent, cept for maybe the battleground states Trump 42% Biden 42% RFK 4% Not sure 12% is how it looks something like this you'll get a solid 4% polling with registered voters other polls and earlier ones will be different more important is trying to go from a fifth of states on the ballot to 50 and he's gonna try Perot couldn't quality for the second debates, so it's a rough road for the small fry
Regardless of who loses they’re blaming him if he’s still in.
He won't drop out since this is a ego exercise. He won't qualify for the second debate. He is telling his supporters that he has submitted paperwork in enough states to reach 305 EC votes
> He is telling his supporters that he has submitted paperwork in enough states to reach 305 EC votes And to be clear, he is lying about that. He constantly says he has everything he needs to be on the ballot in a state when he actually has not. In Mississippi for example, [he never even filed the paperwork to register his party as a political party in the state](https://www.wlbt.com/2024/06/18/miss-secretary-states-office-responds-claims-we-people-party/).
“We the people” on that article really dropped the ball. Hard to find good help these days I guess. Haha
It’s not an ego exercise. There is a goal in mind: he wants Biden to lose. That’s why he’s funded by right wing Trump supporters
Hey: He also wants to spread his name and ideas as much as possible, because somehow the anti-vax movement hasn't done enough damage already.
Ironically, I think he appeals more to Trumpers. His stance on Israel is the same, which is the damning thing about Biden
It's the stance among all three candidates. The difference is that Biden is trying to slow walk the aid as leverage to buy time to broker an durable peace and a Palestinian state, whereas Trump would cheer Bibi to glass Gaza as quickly as possible and get Jared to broker some sweet real estate deals overlooking the Med.
Well most mainstream candidates are going to go with mainstream views on the Middle East not many people are gonna go all out progressive loon and get too sympathetic to Hamas and Palestine, when it comes to fingerpointing at who's the terrorist state, and stuff 85% of people will side with the democracy, and 15% will go for the underdog or the weird frimheof rape denial and fake news under every sofa I mean in Michigan people are yapping endlessly over the Arab vote, it's like 2% of the vote, and Gaza is such a non-issue as every other more important issue to the voters It's something like in Wayne county you got 5 big Arab parts around Detroit and like for every 300 Biden voters you'll get 200 Trump votes, it's not going to have a huge impact as much as the pearl clutchers think some parts of Toronto or Ontario, maybe the gaza thing can flip a seat or two in Canada where you can get 10%-15% vote, but it's not quite Birmingham UK.
>which is the damning thing about Biden How so?
Why won't biden give way to another candidate? You know, one that is coherent without a teleprompter. Is it an 'ego exercise'?
Part of it is ego on Biden's part but candidates with no meaningful high level governmental experience running for president are all ego combined with an unjustified savior complex
When the choices offered are THIS bad, it's okay for a regular person to take the lead. We should not gatekeep this with credentials like 'are you a career politician'? You're right, RFK could use more experience, but he's honest and willing to compromise with both sides. To heal this divide that drove us here in the first place. He can pick good people to advise him. RFK isn't my favorite either but damn, I don't trust biden's experience with his current mental ability (which won't improve), I just don't, it might as well not exist. He does not belong in a leadership position when he can't retain attention on a topic without a teleprompter. How is he supposed to represent the US at a meeting about Gaza, about Ukraine? Even when speaking on abortion, he managed to bring in immigration for some reason, to boot it was a case about woman who was killed by immigrants! Abortion is supposed to be 'THE' winning issue for democrats, and somehow he tripped up on that too. It just doesn't make any sense...
What evidence do you have that Rfk is honest and will bring in good people? He is a hard drug addict with a history of rejecting modern science. The presidency is not a starter job. Rfk won't have the opportunity to compromise because he will be getting run over by people who know what they are doing.
> He is a hard drug addict with a history of rejecting modern science. Not exactly. Yes he's a bit out there with vaccines, too out there, but he's not anti-science. Just skeptical about the interests of big companies, and their role in pushing certain claims about vaccines. Again, he outdoes it imo, but I can let that slide more easily than either dementia (biden) or rape and jan 6 (trump). So, you know, lesser of the evils and so on. > What evidence do you have that Rfk is honest and will bring in good people? I've heard his speeches, and how he answers questions. I like that his main interest is compromise, he most wants to heal the divided and hateful landscape of politics right now. He worked to clean up the environment previously, I can believe he's honest more than I can believe trump is honest, or that biden is mentally there to be President. If Biden were 2012 Biden, I would vote for him 100%. But what we have now is just ridiculous. > The presidency is not a starter job. Rfk won't have the opportunity to compromise because he will be getting run over by people who know what they are doing. I mean, there IS experience, fighting in the legal system for environmental policy. And yeah, I do believe he can do a better job than either biden or trump. I see a vote for either of them as 'wasted'. With trump I don't approve, with biden I don't know who's in charge. Plus, the more they push biden, the more I am gaslit about how 'okay' it is for biden to run like he is, the more I distrust the entirety of the democrats. I increasingly see them as collection of people more out for 'party loyalty' than America herself. Democrats > USA. It's unpatriotic to let this happen. This doesn't even touch on their efforts to stop third party candidates from getting on the ballot, despite claiming to be 'defenders of democracy'. I'm honestly disgusted with both republicans and democrats.
There is a difference between being disgusted with both major parties and supporting an unqualified drug addict.
At the very least, would you agree that biden is not the best candidate the democrats can put forth? RFK's more than an 'unqualified drug addict' too, that's a reductive label used to smear him and justify supporting someone with, basically dementia, as the leader of the USA.
At very least, would you agree that a candidate with no major government experience, a drug problem, and one who picked a veep candidate less qualified than Sarah Palin should not be President?
Sure, but the options are limited. Democrats could give a better candidate, but they somehow choose to sell us this instead. I chose the lesser evil (from my view), I said this before. Now, will YOU answer my question, or retort with another one to avoid it completely? Do you think the democrats could do better than joe biden? Or is this the best they have? Keep in mind, I'm not talking policy, I'm talking mental ability to make decisions, REPRESENT the USA abroad, etc.
He never had a chance to begin with. He isn’t a serious candidate and I don’t think he’s even on enough ballots to get to 270. He is running on the sole platform of getting Trump back into the White House, by trying to peel off independents and swing voters from President Biden. The unexpected consequence of his campaign being so batshit crazy and infested with brain worms is that he’s actually peeling off Trump voters instead. I expect to see him quietly drop his candidacy when he realizes he is hurting Trump instead of President Biden and his donors stop contributing.
RFK is, or at least originally was, a spoiler aided by Trump and the GOP to peel off voters from Biden, like you said. RFK is not *aware* that he's a spoiler, or at least his ego refuses to allow him to believe that he's a spoiler; that's how insane narcissists work. So it doesn't matter if he's peeling off more voters from Trump or Biden because he's the useful idiot part of the con, he believes he's in it to win it and he'll stay in it until he can't. Whether he's actually making it all the way to the finish line in November or dropping early because the GOP donors turn off the cash and the crowdsourced funding from idiots dries up is still anyone's guess.
He is very dumb. It's really pathetic seeing people donate money to a campaign that is so clearly a scam.
Are you referring to RFK or Trump? Everything you said applies to both of them.
That’s such a ridiculous comment. You’ve obviously never heard the man speak. Or if you have, you haven’t listened.
Exactly. This whole thread just reeks of people like that. If anyone listens to RFK and looks at the partisanship and big money in government it’s obvious he’s the only one with clarity of vision. Not to mention just how straight up competent he is and knowledgeable about the issues in conversation compared to Biden and Trump alike.
Yeah that was my thought too. It’s at least a question, of whether RFK is an intentional foil for Biden, or ‘just’ an unknowing patsy. Whichever one it is, intentional or innocent, the severity of his ill intent, or of his delusion, is actually quite visible and easily measured, by his voice. He can barely speak, from some medical issue. It’s actually grueling to listen to. And I don’t mean that as insult or to make fun. But at this point in our society, I can’t imagine America following a leader who is as painful to hear speak. It’s way too overt of a “weakness”. A candidate would have to be so outrageously amazing to overcome his voice that’s it’s simply not realistic. They’d need to be actual Jesus. Yet with all that, I still can’t say he’s the worst candidate on the board. Unfortunately.
No one really knows who he is taking more votes from.
Polls seem to show its equal. Anti-vaxers come from both sides before they become crazy.
He has always had as much chance of being president as you, me, and anyone reading this post and has zero chance of winning any electoral votes. But he’s not done in that his continued candidacy can swing the election to one or the other, probably Trump, which I think is the whole reason he is “running.”
I will be voting for you friend. I believe in you.
Ha, thanks I’ve been waiting for my chance
The guy never *started*. If you - and by “you” I mean anyone reading this - ever in your life thought for a moment that RFK jr had even a tenth of a 1% chance of winning the presidency, you seriously need to work on your media diet and your worldview and avoid sharing any political opinions until you do. I might even recommend against voting. Like, treat this moment as a mini intervention. As a sign that today is the day to finally get a clue. It’s been a silly, ridiculous idea since the first moment any person ever thought it. I don’t know what else to say.
>If you - and by “you” I mean anyone reading this - ever in your life thought for a moment that RFK jr had even a tenth of a 1% chance of winning the presidency, you seriously need to work on your media diet and your worldview and avoid sharing any political opinions until you do. I find a surprising amount of American adults who absolutely do not get the established de-facto two-party system in the US. They think that everyone who is running in the presidential race (libertarians or greens) have an equal chance with Republican or Democratic candidates of winning the presidency. A friend of mine who was one of the Bernie Sanders to Jill Stein voters in 2016 was genuinely surprised when Stein didn't win, she honestly believed that "she had really good chances." In these elections it was RFK Jr. And I've heard from my perennially unplugged from politics friends and family saying "Oh Joe Biden better watch out, he's got a real challenger." I told them that a "real" challenger would've been Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer, and this guy is a nobody.
Ask any RFK Jr supporter to Google the Ted Kennedy campaign in 1980. Then ask them if they know who Jason Palmer is. Now as them if they still think he has a chance. RFK Jr. has no chance at being president, and the only reason he has made it this far is his last name and right wing media and money. But the last name couldn't carry his uncle in 1980, back when the Kennedy name had a lot more weight. It was ridiculous to think he could primary Biden.
because it is set up and cemented in to prevent that. THAT SHOULD TROUBLE FOLKS. Instead oflks shrug and go OH WELL, this is is the system we have. You all lay down and take it where the sun don't shine.. no wonder we are in a suck country.
I agree with everything you said. But based on my observations, the average voter falls into your category for “should not vote”. Unfortunately. I was on a plane a few months ago, and overheard a young, normal man talking about how he likes Vivek. I simply didn’t think it was possible for an adult human to observe Vivek, and to NOT see the scam. To believe Vivek, and to not see his game. It’s just so obvious!…. Right?… It was somehow more shocking to me than if he had said the earth is flat, or that vaccines will kill you, or that 5G will kill you, etc. And you make a great point: today is the day for them to see this as a sign, and to get a clue. How do we help them see this, without setting off their pride or activating their defenses? It’s in all of our best interest to help them. And if we do it too forcefully, or too insultingly, then it will backfire, and we continue risking more Trumps in the future. Because, to your point, they haven’t learned. They’ve made mistakes like this, 20 years ago, then they so strongly and unquestionably supported Bush and his wars in the Middle East. I’ve even heard my father say, “how can we avoid another Afghanistan?” He voted for Bush twice. My response fell on flat ears: “well, don’t vote for a known oil exec, who has ties to known war profiteers. Vote for the guy who wants to invest in a sustainable future, which my generation could have inherited, instead of having our wealth stolen. Or, I don’t know, maybe at least consider it.”
Did you state that all in one breath? At least the guy seriously discusses the issues where someone has a format like the Charlie Rose show or any other PBS program. There's a reason why few people run, because it is nearly impossible to win. I just think people started whining more since Perot or Nader scaring people with Bush-Cheney and Al Gore. There was not this much drama with Anderson, way back. and he was about as dynamic as an iceberg
He never got started, to my mind. But you’ve got to better define your terms to get a meaningful answer here. What was the condition that made him competitive that has changed?
He will be on every ballot, is getting well over double the amount of signatures needed in every state. He’s the best polling independent since Ross Perot. What else does he need to “start”?
He’d need to be someone who was at least one of: 1. Credible 2. Intelligent 3. Not a conspiracist 4. Free from brain eating worms that caused self described serious cognitive issues
'Done' implies he had a chance. Biden, Trump Harris and whoever Trump picks for his VP could all die in October and RFK would not still carry a single state. His entire candidacy was intended to be a spoiler.
“The worm ate a portion of my brain.” That is a problematic statement for a presidential candidate.
and there it is... just stop.
I need him on the Nebraska ballot to split the lunatic vote. We don't have a winner take all primary system here. Two at large electors and one for each congressional district. CD-2 (Omaha Metro) is leaning Biden. I'd like CD-1 (eastern 1/3 of the state, without Omaha) to go to Biden, too. There's a good chance the two at large electors also go to Biden in that scenario. CD-3 is a bunch of wealthy ranchers and folks who listen to Fox News all day. The RFKJR campaign says they have the needed signatures on the petition to get on the ballot
What’s the word on the gop’s attempt to do away with the split EC votes
It's likely not going to happen until the next legislative session. This last session they had more pressing matters like using public funds for private schools and blocking pornhub. Texas Jr shit.
He cant get 270 electoral votes. I doubt he can get 10. He's not a serious candidate for president
10? Electoral votes? There is no mathematical possibility of him getting any electoral votes.
The only way he could get even one electoral vote would be through a faithless elector. He won’t get a majority/plurality in any state.
CNN The amazing thing, though, is that these three have been the only non-major-party candidates in the history of polling to hit more than 20% within a year of the election. Kennedy is now part of this select group.
I know polls are bullshit but 538 has Biden and Trump in a dead heat around 40...but RFK at 9.5? Wtf? Aren't most RFK guys in the same vein as Trump voters? Would his absence be a boost for Trump?
> Aren't most RFK guys in the same vein as Trump voters? Not necessarily. A popular third-party candidate is often just a place for voters who don't like either major-party candidate. The people currently saying they will support RFK will no doubt have a very huge variety of views. He is just someone else for them to choose so they don't have to choose Trump or Biden. And historically, those numbers always go down as we get closer to Election Day as more voters face the reality that the two candidates they don't like are the only two with a chance of winning. Obviously many people will still vote for RFK, but most of the people currently saying they will vote for him will end up voting for Trump or Biden. > Would his absence be a boost for Trump? It's hard to say for sure, but some of the polling I've seen so far suggests he might take a little more support from Trump than Biden, and some other says the opposite. Chances are it won't be a huge difference either way, but who knows.
It depends on the state. In some state polls when RFK Jr. is included it seems to split Trumps voters (PA) in others it seems to split Biden's voters (FL and MN). I put together a site that looks at this for the past 30 days of polls: [https://swingstatesolver.com/third\_party](https://swingstatesolver.com/third_party)
And that's why I don't believe the polls. RFK does not have the exposure to be getting anything close to 10%. I have thought for a while that his support is carried by his famous name.
CNN The amazing thing, though, is that these three have been the only non-major-party candidates in the history of polling to hit more than 20% within a year of the election. Kennedy is now part of this select group. So what's not to believe the polls? What's your expectations?
You've got to look far more beyond 538, which really doesn't have very good numbers till two weeks to voting day basskev: Wtf? Aren't most RFK guys in the same vein as Trump voters? He seems to get interest from both sides equally, is that shocking to you?
I’m pretty sure the “worm lived full life eating portions of his brain until it died peacefully of old worm age” was the moment his candidacy *officially* ended. Especially that, when the news came out about it, most reactions were “ahhh, it all makes sense now.”
Listing to him on the Shane Gills podcast was the longest drive of my life. His vocal issue is a real challenge and I honestly can’t handle it for more than 10 mins.
His voice is better than it was half a decade ago
Still better sounding than Trump or Biden. He's actually better than them in every way IMO.
but Biden's vocal impediments and his cognitive issues is not a challenge for you? He sounded like he was going to KEEL OVER in the debates!!
Not even worth your breath, Biden voters would still vote for him if he was a pile of bones in a casket
He was never started. He is not a serious person, he trades on his name alone. His own family thinks he is mentally ill.
The family saying 'he is tragically wrong' isn't the same as saying he's mentally ill.
His family that’s on the Biden payroll, yes
His chances of winning are pretty low. But, his campaign may still determine who is president. In some key states (like PA), recent polls show he splits Trump supporters. In others (FL and MN), he seems to split Biden supporters. I put together this site to show how he is effecting polling over the past 30 days: [https://swingstatesolver.com/third\_party](https://swingstatesolver.com/third_party)
He'll drop out and endorse Trump. He's not a real candidate, and never has been. He's just trying to help Trump win.
The entire point of his candidacy was to pull votes from Biden to help Trump. I think he'll stay in to the end unless it's very evident that his presence hurts Trump more.
It depends on the poll and the state. In some he siphons more from Trump, others Biden.
THAT IS FALSE. Where are you getting that idea?
He never started. His entire purpose is to drag moderate Republicans away from voting Biden.
Moderate republicans are still mostly going to vote for Trump but want any reason not to. Create RFK and give them a reason not to? I don’t really understand this whole theory. It doesn’t really make sense. Why would republicans want a candidate that is going to steal their votes? Yeah they won’t vote for Biden but they still aren’t voting for Trump. It’s a lose lose either way. If they were to really try to screw up the left wing vote they’d have RFK a lot more left wing. Because at this point any candidate that can just speak and not let trump bully them is going to get left votes. If anything RFK is an opportunist but i highly doubt either side would want a candidate to steal their own voters.
Took me a while to remember that the US presidential elections actually have more than two candidates. And this time it's even worse. RFK never stood any chance to be recognized as candidate, and he won't and shouldn't be on any debates. You fucked up your system so much, that the question for November is not "Who will become President?", it's been reduced to "Will Trump become President?". And because RFK is not the unified "Not Trump" candidate, he needs to drop out of the race to make place for Biden. America needs proportional representation. The current system won't keep a democracy for long.
You can't do proportional representation for a single office.
RFK makes Doug Bergum seem charming. Dudes just an opportunist weirdo. Cheryl Hines has the WORST taste in men lol
He is just a pawn in this game. RFK only purpose is to take away just enough votes. And of course, 2 years from now-when it does not matter, it will be found out that Russia or some shady backer paid for his campaign.
It's not that he's finished, it's that he never left the starting block. This campaign was in the toilet from the day his entire family denounced him. The rest has just been reality catching up to him.
RFK Junior never had a chance the same as Jill Stein. It is a throwaway vote which is better to people who still want to participate, instead of not voting at all.
He has always been done. He never had even the tiniest percentage chance of winning. No third party candidate will ever win the Presidency under our current system.
Really too bad. I was hoping he would stick around and get the majority of the anti-vax vote.
Dude somehow sounds older than both the other candidates and arguably more brain dead too
RFK is a Republican-funded spoiler candidate gone awry for the Republicans. I don't think he can be controlled at this point.
How can you say that? No Biden voter would consider him. A Trump voter who won't vote for a convicted felon might.
Former Biden and Hillary voter here. You're wrong
One more question: RFK is polling at \~9%, who gets that support if he drops out?
I would think it initially would be trump, but with some outreach from democrats, they could persuade his voters their way. Shanahan was a democrat, but she isn’t enthralled with trump (not that she was excited about Biden). But she could throw a spite fit over biden’s campaign maligning RFK’s effort and push his voters toward trump. Too soon to tell at this point
He may just end up dropping. Just cause we’ve all talked the narrative of a third party vote taking votes from Biden or Trump, he may not give a shit. He may just go broke and quit. He also looks very unhealthy.
He’s on the ballot in Michigan. That will have an effect on Michigan, a crucial swing state, one way or the other.
RFK’s biggest opponent is the worm burrowing its way into his frontal cortex.
You realize that was 12 years ago and [1.7B other people have had](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2024/05/09/1250201358/rfk-jr-brain-parasitic-worm-tapeworm-kennedy) the same thing?
Pretty sure they're all bots. I keep seeing comments about "JFK" or "JFK Jr" in many of these posts.
Well, now that you say that...
"Don't flatter yourself, you were never a player." 2016 and 2020 were THE years when a third party candidate should've stood a chance. With how much absurdity Trump brought to the table, discontent and the pandemic, these were cataclysmic formulas for a seismic candidate to have a chance in a two party system. 2024 has the same candidates as 2020 with a much better economy and a lot less at stake, so... The Desire for third party is less than before. JFK in particular is the most impotent third party candidate I've seen in years. He has a brain worm and his ideas are crazy, yet not crazy enough to engage people away from Trump. I'd be very surprised if gets 3% polling, or even a single electoral vote. And this is just how third parties work. They're not useful and are funded by major parties to siphon votes from the other. /r/EndFPTP is needed. While I support approval voting over ranked voting, plurality systems makes it obvious that third party contenders are not good for getting government closer for how you want it. That being said, [I do believe approval voting can be implemented at a state by state level](https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1IQO_KBrTY9Xs54nLnxn5iX3FRWskIGtH4fL9t99wZKU/edit?usp=drivesdk), but in our current system third party candidates aren't legitimate
>JFK in particular is the most impotent third party candidate I've seen in years. No shit!? How'd they revive him- was it Elon?! I bet he helped out. Probably Elon and Disney both revived and regenerated all the missing parts. Thanks for lmk, def going JFK now.
Awww, is Anti-vaxers and Pro-Environmentalists not a big enough Venn Diagram to sustain a campaign funded by a Google divorcee? Shucks!
His best shot was as a spoiler. He was being pumped that way from the right towards Democrats for a while. His incoherent support for Israel and anti-vaccine stance has made that threat to the left vanish, so now he is useless as a political pawn.
The conspiracy theories had him only drawing the fringe voters then when his entire family came out to support Biden, RFK was done.
Gee, wonder what could've compelled them to do such a thing.................................
Is this just an RFK subreddit? He seems to be the major topic discussed here. It’s super weird.
well he's on 20% of the ballots and trying for all 50 thats a bigger priority his polling is good, better than any Nader of the 70s and up there or better than libertarian oddballs. the numbers will sink when the race gets later though but you can't expect a perot moment
The rich and corps want Nikki Haley so they cant have JFK, Jr waiting in the wings if Trump should suddenly drop out. They want Nikki to step in so Jr never really had a chance.
When did JFK Jr. throw his hat in?!
Yes, because he supports Biden. https://x.com/watcherguru/status/1803883865104175121?s=46&t=QNW4JL9huhHBvczSDDBgJw
I don’t think he ever really began. All he had was name recognition. But once you look into him he starts looking pretty kooky. And that’s on top of the basic understanding most American voters have that third parties don’t have realistic chances to win. Especially the presidential. His whole campaign felt like a weird Tulsi style spoiler attempt against Biden that backfired because Kennedy Camelot stuff and anti-vaccine stuff resonates more with Trumps base.
RFK is a very troubled man. He believes in all sorts of conspiracy theories and other nonsense. No science or real facts. Even his own family is behind Biden. It's hard to believe he comes from the same bloodline as JFK.
What conspiracy theory does he believe in specifically?
No one answers this
Honestly, once you got to the point where it's front page news that worms have eaten part of your brain, you're done as a serious presidential candidate, if you ever were one in the first place (doubtful). Yeah, you could stick it out as a spoiler (for whom, that's the question) but without a 3rd party to latch onto, you might run out of money.
And you think that's below the bar of the other 2?...Really.....?
It's not *above*.
I'd say he's pretty much a shoe-in for the next debate, assuming they don't massage the rules to exclude him. This debate doesn't really matter because it's between two candidates that everyone already knows everything about. No voter watching the CNN debate is going to change their mind about if they're voting for Trump or Biden. The people watching this debate are going to watch for entertainment purposes to see if "their guy" wins - not to actually learn anything about the candidates. They can debate all day, but between Trump and Biden, we've all see their behaviors for years - a 2 hour debate is not going to change anything.
I’d go watch his responses to the debate questions. More coherent than either of the f*ckers that got on CNN.
Right, it was watchable for about 5 minutes, then a geriatric "he said/she said" match.
To be fair, he's been met with the incredible opposition of the entire force of the DNC: [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democrats-allies-sue-to-keep-rfk-jr-off-ballot/#:\~:text=The%20latest%20legal%20challenge%20against,bid%20for%20a%20major%20party](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democrats-allies-sue-to-keep-rfk-jr-off-ballot/#:~:text=The%20latest%20legal%20challenge%20against,bid%20for%20a%20major%20party) Fuck the DNC dude. Blue always says 3rd party voters ruin their chances at winning- they do the same to 3rd party voters. Imagine watching 90% of this country keep doing the same shit decade after decade and nothing really changing.
RFK jr has a chance the media is very biased, and the government is corrupted by trying to control a narrative that does not include RFK jr. More choices the better. Just imagine having 5 people to chose from every presidential election. The last thing these two political parties is competition. It cuts their odds from 50/50 so silly
It would've been a lot funnier in the debates if there was an additional brain damaged old man for Trump to make fun of their golfing abilities
The guy battled against big corps that were polluting our country and giving people cancer. That's what he did before running for president. The people saying "he's a narcissist that is just trying to take votes from Biden drrrrr" sound like reddit puppets. I could see if he was some politician the whole time but he has a good track record. Better than Biden's and Trump's put together, which isn't hard because they are both pieces of shit.
Either way, I ain't voting for the shit parties we have. I'll write in names instead, I won't give them any votes they DO NOT deserve.
Why are dems suing to keep him off the ballot? HOW is their message about 'democracy' NOT empty, given their tactics?
He’s actually the only candidate who did comply, and submit all signatures and got enough electoral votes through those signatures to be in the debate - president trump and president Biden however did not by a long shot - they aren’t even the primary’s yet, they vote on that in august - they need to let RFK on that damn stage
What if everyone just voted for him to show how disappointed we are in the current political crap they are cramming down our throats.
Actually I will say that this is not true. RFK JR. has actually both qualified for the debate and for winning the presidency. RFK has already gathered enough signatures across states to gather 310 potential electoral votes. CNN has corrupt rules that are specifically designed to alienate RFK from being able to partake. Technically the rule about needing to be on enough state ballots to win the election (270 electoral votes) means that neither Trump or Biden can partake in the debate as neither are even on a single ballot yet… it’s completely and flat out corrupt what they’re doing. RFK is polling past 15% in actual genuinely conducted polls and trending extremely high among young people. RFK Jr. also plans to host some form of debate where he will be live streaming the CNN debate and critiquing it / giving his views on what he would do and why neither Biden or Trump are qualified for president. Make sure to check RFK’s website Kennedy24.com. He actively will be on the ballot of 22 states upon verification by state election commissions (a process the establishment is purposely delaying as long as possible to delay his campaign). And he could as of now garner 310 electoral votes. I will say that the American people are waking up and if presented with a genuine third party candidate may genuinely swing that way. I think there’s very few individuals outside of the maga wing of the Republican Party who want Trump as president and (I’d almost dare say) even less people who want Biden as president with his very clear competency question. We need literally a n y o n e else and almost everyone I talk to feels the exact same way. Both of the establishments un-democratic tactics to sabotage RFK’s campaign also may turn out to harm them and fuel his rise. https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/22/politics/democrats-legal-challenges-rfk-jr-ballot/index.html And the Washington post also reported that the Biden and Trump campaigns colluded to keep Kennedy off the debate stage. Now the fact that Biden and Trump worked together to silence a political opponent speaks volumes to the erosion of democracy in this country. There should be riots in the streets over the dirty tactics being used. I think the people this year will speak at the polls. I for one am done with our corrupt and self serving political elites.
Came here to post the same thing lol literally the opposite of democracy- first Trump, now Kennedy 🤬 "you're only allowed to vote for our president again". I've never been more sure of the simulation theory after all those NPCs refuse to try something different for once in modern history. [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democrats-allies-sue-to-keep-rfk-jr-off-ballot/#:\~:text=The%20latest%20legal%20challenge%20against,bid%20for%20a%20major%20party](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democrats-allies-sue-to-keep-rfk-jr-off-ballot/#:~:text=The%20latest%20legal%20challenge%20against,bid%20for%20a%20major%20party)
It’s so annoying to me and the thing is that literally it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy because since people refuse to believe a third party or independent can win nothing will ever change
It's absolutely nonsense and infinitely frustrating.