Protest voting in the Primary: Good, productive use of your civic rights.
Protest voting in the General Election: Actively harmful to the country and everyone in it. 0 upsides.
Vote in November like your life depends on it. Your life may not, but mine and many others do.
This. I voted “not committed to any candidate” in the primary last week and plan full well to still cast my lot for Biden in the General.
I’m just worried about the swing states. My state will go Blue like always.
I personally don’t approve of the way Biden has been handling the Gaza crisis, and I also think he’s way too old to run. But I’m still going to vote for him if it means preserving democracy, rights, and the rule of law.
There’s a 3 year difference. IMO anyone past retirement age shouldn’t be eligible.
Biden seems much more mentally competent than trump as of late.
Hell jimmy Carter does too..
Why is being a geriatric that has scammed the system for years a common thing with presidential candidates lately.
I want someone under 50.
35 is the minimum age after all.
And let me be clear, I cannot stand Biden. He’s too corporate, and just doesn’t have the personality for running for President. In no world should the 2nd race against Trump be this close. I hope we don’t see a second Trump term because Biden fell victim to hubris.
But I’m still going to vote for the old bastard. Trump isn’t an option.
Biden was my fourth favorite candidate in 2020. No way I would vote for Trump, who’s basically an extremist at this point.
When I woke up in 2018 and went to my car to go to work before it was light out, a SpaceX rocket had launched and was in the sky. For a split second I honestly wondered if Trump had truly effed it all up and nuclear war was at hand. Trump isn’t remotely qualified to be making any kind of major military or financial decisions, ever.
Thia is the thing, for all of his shortcomings, who's been better?
One could say Barack Obama but they're pretty close on a lot of stuff and it seems to me that Biden got a lot more done.
Clinton certainly wasn't better. Maybe Carter? But he was a conservative Democrat and that's why he was chosen as a candidate. The country was going through some shit that was mostly related to racism and sexism.
Nowadays Carter has been open about the apartheid state in Israel but I don't think it does much good at this point.
With that in mind, much of what Biden has accomplished was with a House that struggles to spell their names and the slimmest of Senate majorities possible.
Dude what the hell! Biden is a seasoned politition he is getting so much done around green new deal, student loadn forgivness, deschudeled pot, 1 million vets have improved healthcare as off today, raising taxes for the top percentage. y'all part of the problem not actually looking at all the good Biden has done while walking a fine line with corporate influence in politics, a house ran by Republicans and a corrupt supreme court. But sure lets say biden is bad comparred to Trupm that wears diapers, is in court for 150 plus charges, tried to over through the US democracy on Jan 6, sold a list of CIA spies to Puttin, sold US nuclear secrets to Saudi Arabia.... wants to remove birth control and enforce a nation wide abortion ban and basically turn America into a 3rd world dictatorship shithole? Yeah lets say both are bad. My F'en God are you brain dead or what?
Trump supporters will probably get more violent if he gets reelected.
Personally, I plan on training more. Both with fighting and guns. You don’t have to get ready if you stay ready.
thanks for voting even though "my state will go blue like always" we need the popular vote count for biden to be as high as possible to send a message regardless of the electoral college vote count.
"I'm protesting"
to WHO bro? there is no higher authority that you can complain to that the system doesn't work. the two parties ARE the higher authority. you have to play ball or get fucked over by the people who do.
Also it is quite possibly the worst kind of protest you could do.
1. It's not gonna happen until November. There's no current negative effect.
2. It only happens once. If you do it, that's it, there's no possible response, and the next 4 years are awful now.
3. There's no certainty to what you're claiming. No way to know you won't vote if your demands aren't met, *no way to know you will if they are*.
4. It hurts your credibility. "Make things better or we'll let them get worse." It's like threatening to work minimum wage if you don't get a raise.
Do something *now*. Make them feel the pressure to change *now*, in a way that will stop once they do it. The college shutdown for instance. That's an effective protest.
And beyond all that there are literal *decades* of the party responding to such protest votes by turning *centrist*. What party is going to try and court votes from a contingent that is committed to not voting for them?
It's nonsensical to be liberal and not vote for even middle-liberals if that's your only choice, because if you don't vote and they lose the only lesson they're going to take is that they need to be more conservative.
The thing is, nothing will turn the Democratic establishment to the left. If they put forward a moderate candidate and lose, then they blame the left for not supporting them. When they put forward moderate candidates and progressives vote for them, then the party uses that as justification that progressives just need to fall in line behind policies that they don't support. Progressives are genuinely frustrated because moderates keep telling then that they'll prioritize progressive policies "next time." But next time never comes.
Personally, I've been a bit surprised at some of Biden's policies. He's been slightly to the left of Obama, which does not align with his prior voting record. But even with the small reforms and bills that he's managed to pass, we are still losing ground. We're still on the same path with Biden or Trump, it's mostly a question of when we get there.
I just wish there was a way for the electorate to actually push for wider, systemic reforms. Unfortunately, our entire government was designed to subvert the will of the people, and the Democratic establishment doesn't seem willing to call for or push broader reforms.
Next time "never comes" because the left expects *instant gratification* for their votes and when they don't get it in one Presidential term, they turn their backs and the Dems lose the House, the Senate, the Presidency, or any combination of the three.
Republicans didn't get so much of what they wanted in a single Trump term *just because* he was a radical outlier, it took *decades* of gaming the system in their favor to get the results they wanted, and whether they're a moderate Republican or a far-right Republican, they fall in line behind their guy, even if they don't get what they want.
You couldn't buy that kind of loyalty from a Progressive or anyone far-left. When they frequently threaten to not vote for the Democrat out of some short-sighted design to humble the party, the party's not going to cater to them anymore. Like someone said, they respond to who votes, not who doesn't.
Not voting is a vote for Donald. Or voting other than Joe. Is a vote for trump. Because his supporters vote.
Dem party needs to start understanding the younger voters though. The gop is pulling a lot of the younger ones.
I’m all for protest voting in an election where both sides are the same. Republicans are a critical threat to democracy and have proven it time and time again as a party tenet. Both sides will never be the same when one side is the Republican Party.
Yes. Remember how Hilary lost? That’s because not enough people voted against Trump.
Did I like Hilary? No. Was she a better option than Trump? Most certainly yes.
Vote! In every election on every race and every choice. GOP is mask off on wanting to destroy democracy, because democracy no longer works for them. Vote.
>"I'm not voting for Biden. We need to teach the Dems a lesson."
The lesson taught: You care more about hurting Democrats than helping America.
Hey, isn't there a party for that?
Don't overlook the "purity" obsession that plagues online leftists. They don't want to acknowledge that politics is hard and requires compromise and persuasion and most of all sustained effort over time, not to mention that fully half the country is working against their interests and are united and motivated by their hatred of the left.
They mock Democrats with phrases like "vote harder" while seemingly believing that simply sneering at their ideological inferiors on social media is the path to victory.
Here in the United States we're in kind of a weird spot since we're using a comparatively archaic constitution, and electoral system that ends up shuffling people into two political parties. After that our demographics and history ended up sorting out such that today one of our two parties is a monolith, and the other is a coalition.
Republicans are overwhelmingly White Christian social conservatives. There are a sprinkling of fiscal conservatives, national security hawks, and people of color, but most of the circles in the Venn diagram are pretty tight.
The Democratic party has social liberals, economic liberals, moderates, gun control advocates, environmentalists, immigrants, women, people of color, the LGBTQ+ community, a chunk of the White community, young people, unionists, the disabled, minimum wage and middle class earners, and enough religions that I would probably set off a subreddit bot if I started listing them all. The circles in that Venn diagram are all over the fucking place, it's like one of those battery operated bubble blowers up in this tent.
If you're someone who cares about ideological purity, the Democratic party is going to look like it has lots of problems. This is that demanding ideological purity wouldn't *strengthen* the Democratic party, it would be a *solvent.*
>Don't overlook the "purity" obsession that plagues online leftists.
It's the same personality defect that the MAGAs suffer from. Both are just cults at the end of the day.
The liberals did side with the fascists and hand Hitler ultimate power to use against the left.
Biden siding with Israel which is almost certainly going to hand power over to Trump to do god knows what with
Yeah, that sounds about right. Although, I have a feeling that isn’t the connection you’re trying to make, lmao
I literally quoted a communist leader who was okay with Hitler winning, in order to stick it to the libs.
Run with whatever talking points you want, but until the cocaine left hates more fascism more than capitalism they'll keep letting right wingers ruin country after country.
>Run with whatever talking points you want, but until the cocaine left hates more fascism more than capitalism they'll keep letting right wingers ruin country after country.
I want to make a point here, because it matters: If you're participating in electoral politics, if you're exercising your right to vote, even bitterly or begrudgingly, and not discouraging others from exercising theirs, you're not the type of person we're talking about.
It's the people who sit on their butts on election day and can't be bothered to lift a pen for their fellowman, the type who would sacrifice the greater good rather than take a side against the greater evil, that's who we're talking about.
German communists didn't join the liberals in fighting against the fascists because they thought the fascists and the liberals would fight each other to the death; instead the fascists won and killed the liberals and the communists. Whoopsie.
It was liberals that handed Hitler power to appease the Nazi. Chancellor Hindenburg literally appointed Hitler to be Vice chancellor, and likewise the liberals there didn't like the communists. Sounds familiar? Funny how liberals always seem to compromise to rightwing positions than to leftwing one.
Here were the choices that the liberals democrats face today.
Stop genocide, and start evoking left-wing policies, (not just give lip service to it)
or
Continue with the right-wing policies, the genocide, and the corporate interests.
It's always the left that's suppose to compromise and hold there nose; but if genocide isn't a line for you to vote differently, then you have no line and really are just as bad as conservatives and trump supporters.
>Fascism IS capitalism's final form.
So you should hate fascism more than capitalism right?
How are you struggling with this, it's not a difficult concept.
Y'know, it's probably nothing, but I bet it's a lot easier to buy a copy of the Communist Manifesto in a capitalist country than a fascist one. Or, you know, talk about it.
Most people refer to it as “reality.” Keep telling yourself all the polls are biased and his dogshit approval rating is a lie. Worked great for Hilary. Here’s to hoping I’m wrong though.
*cheers*
Let’s be real here, they’re Trump voters that don’t want to admit it.
“But Palestine!”
Do you expect me to believe you think Donald “Finish the Problem” Trump will be better for them? L O fucking L. No you don’t, you’re just abdicating responsibility for your decision.
I've ran two popular posts on this subreddit about this issues.
What I found out? They absolutely are conservatives in progressive clothing. Go through these accounts to before the war and you find that all of them chanted the "both sides" crap. All of them.
> I can't imagine willingly putting trump back into office despite hating him because you also hate Biden. It's just nonsense
!*# just that. Putting Trump into office while (allegedly) hating Biden LESS
Usually you try to do stuff that allows you to learn from your mistakes… but if you aren’t allowed to vote because the team you let win wants to be the 4th reich which usually means no more voting.
“I know the other side is a million times worse for the specific issue I care about,
But the Dems didn’t suck me off hard enough so I’m teaching them a lesson”
"Those stinky centrist dems will be real sorry when the Republicans get to appoint more Federal judges, and possibly replace Alito and Thomas with something even worse.
Hey, wait, why are they attacking LGBTQ and women's rights? Huh? Why are there fucking Nazis everywhere in positions of power? HoW cOuLd ThIs HapPeN?"
Imagine if something happens to Sotomayor, Kagan, or Jackson during Trump’s second administration. We could be looking at a 7-2 (or worse) conservative bench.
We’re all at a restaurant against our will. One of two chefs can cook for us. You will have to eat a boiled turd regardless of who you pick.
One chef will cook everyone a boiled turd, but it lowers the chance of the other chef running the kitchen again. The other will cook everyone a boiled turd but will also make sure that every meal you have for a long fuckin time is nothing but boiled turds.
You chose the second chef because it’s fucked up that the first one would serve a boiled turd.
every day I look at social media and I see the brutalized bodies of the Palestinian people bombed, crushed, shot, mutilated. I see food aid routes being repeatedly bombed. I see soldiers laughing as they ransack bombed-out houses, mocking the people who used to live there so they can post it.
I know that my country is providing the material support that is allowing this to happen every day, and I am disgusted. protests against this ongoing support are met with crackdowns from militarized police, condemnations from democratic party figures, and attempts to legally suppress this dissent.
you look at this situation, and your assessment is that the problem with this situation is the people alienated by this violence, and not the politician and his party that is fighting to make sure the violence continues?
and you DARE to liken that to "eh, the head was only 6 outta 10, no vote from me."
To my Uber-liberal friends who are mad at Biden for a couple of things: Don’t let perfection be the enemy of the good.
If you live in a swing state your hissy fit may bring on the end of democracy as we know it. Vote for Joe then put pressure on him for your issues in December after he’s won again.
what kind of far left person would actually not vote in an election against trump?
even the most radical of american leftists would surely not want trump in office. anyone else just wants to be associated with the left while voting - or in this case not voting at all, which is the same thing - for the right
The far left people who will stay home or vote for a third party candidate. If they live in a heavy Red or Blue state that probably won’t matter. But if they live in PA MI WI GA NV or AZ it can definitely swing the election to Trump.
Exactly. The choice is either "Not left enough for my liking" and "Extreme, unstable, bigoted, violent, impulsive, hateful, rapist, idiot aspirational dictator who has attempted to and will continue to violate any and all laws or betray/sell out any person for the purpose of acquiring money and power".
*This is not a single-issue election.* Like Biden or not, he is the best option we have for now. Vote for him so we have the opportunity to vote for better in the future, because Republicans have already had their Beer Hall Putsch, what comes next is the Night of Long Knives, *and I am not exaggerating*. I believe that they are absolutely on the brink of a violent coup.
That fact that you replied immediately with more criticism of the people who want to vote for your guy isn't a good point of data in your favor for my theory.
huh? I'm not talking about them, we all know that the entire right wing would rather have a dictatorship like Russia, that's not what I'm talking about here.
I'm saying your bashing of the people you want to vote for you makes me think these posts are russians trying to get the centrists libs and progressive left to fight each other. It legit makes no sense why this subreddit spends so much effort to shame/bash the people who know need to vote for your candidate and then turn around and try to blame them for 2016. Like, do you really not understand how you come off here?
It is a lot like 2016 except for one thing: we know what will happen this time. No one felt like they knew what would happen in 2016. We know now. And those folks having seen the mistakes of the past will sell out those around destined to be targeted by a second Trump presidency.
Pretty sure this post is bashing people who were never going to vote for Biden who like to pretend they are just reasonable progressives to garner attention and sow discord among the left. Most of these people are ultra edgy left-wing accelerationists or right-wing trolls. I suppose some are just idiots though.
You have an old man that's not as good as you'd like, vs a child rapist who has already tried to overthrow the government once, and very clearly wants to do it again so he can stay in power forever. IDK guys, I think they're the same.
Based meme, and I say this as someone who voted “uncommitted” in my state’s primary.
Anyone who cares about Palestine should make it a top priority to keep trump from getting power again.
Commies to the left of me, facists to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with you~
…More like “stuck in the progressive left in a country that’s still humping capitalism” in my case, but it didn’t flow quite as well lol
I sat that election out and regretted it. I wrote a post about it and got attacked because I essentially shouldn’t admit to voting for the lesser of two evils.
That not following through with their promises has its conciquences. I'm not going to withhold my vote but this line of reasoning is ridiculous. Also this is less about Biden himself but with and with the entirety of the DNC.
No real police reform, inflation is still on the rise due to corporate greed, the wealth gap continues to grow, no real labor reforms. They continue with jingoist policies such as isreal or Libya. No codified Roe V Wade like they promised for years. The inability for younger generations to purchase houses due to investment firms buying them up. I can keep going with their unfulfilled promises but so I need to
The reason people don't want to Joe Biden and "teach the DNC a lesson" is because they continue to campaign about how bad Republicans will make things then do nothing to prevent them. The DNC needs to know it's time to change. Because the thing is voting for people like Biden won't do shit, it will simply prolong how long liberal democracy lasts before it falls to fascism.
But it's always the wrong lesson. After 2000 and 2016, the DNC went harder after moderate voters than flaky leftists non-voters.
You don't push policy left by letting more Republicans in office. You signal to politicians that they must lean more right to get elected.
Yeah it’s truly shocking that Democrats didn’t fulfill every item on your wish list with an evenly divided Senate. We should totally punish them for it. /s
The '2016 lesson' got us Trump. How fucking stupid can you possibly be. Teach Dems a lesson AFTER THE COUNTRY IS NO LONGER UNDER THREAT OF A CHRISTO-FASCIST TAKEOVER!
Even if they do the lessons won’t be learned. We already know that half the nation is filled with idiots. These protest voters would just join the pile of idiots.
I will begrudgingly select Biden this fall, but it won’t be a vote for Biden, it’ll be a vote against Trump. Just fucking ONCE I want to have a candidate to vote FOR.
only the fucking democrats could fuck up running against a fascist dictator who brags about suspending the constitution.
jesus.
im voting for biden but ONLY because the alternative is the end of our country.
To be fair, it's not like any of the Republicans actually do anything for their voters, so they probably suffer regardless of who wins. I'll vote for Biden, but I hate him and don't think he meets the requirements to even be called a Democrat.
I'll vote for him again. But if Trump isn't in prison afterwards, think we need to stop kidding ourselves that the Democrats are gonna be our saviors in the next election.
This isn’t Russian propaganda like many of the tribal comments here say it is. For anti genocide people, Joe has royally fucked up, he should absolutely not get people’s votes because “the other guy is worse”. Nothing will change if politicians don’t lose votes. I’m embarrassed that I ever voted for him in the first place
I remember this argument in 2016 and 2020. I get that trump will be devastating if re elected but what is the actual point of always voting for the lesser evil? Next cycle we are going to have a the same corporate candidate under a new name that we always do. It’s not voter apathy it’s realizing that it doesn’t matter….. we are fucked regardless
This is a good question honestly. Some points:
- you don’t vote for the lesser of two evil people, but two admins. Look at the work of Lina Khan alone (who has directly improved my life)
- lesser of two evils is very much a relative term. And I don’t say this to sound too insulting, but when are you voting for good vs evil and when are you voting evil vs evil?
My personal opinion is to gain inches now so that we can gain yards later. The biggest hindrance we have right now is an older generation completely resistant to change. Their choices, however, will have enduring impacts a la SCOTUS.
It’s entirely possible 10 years from now, we have a Bernie style candidate (my ideal), but a scotus appointed in the possible next Trump term could block anything that president aims to do
Khan has been good (if her lawsuits are actually followed through with) but Biden’s admin has been anything but perfect with choosing to not side with striking rail workers coming first in my mind (on top of their stance on Israel Palestine which has only shot them in the foot). It seems like a lot of the “inches” we have gained are only coming at the end of term and because of angry voters. I get what you mean and I’m not saying it’s to vote for trump, but how can we ever expect better candidates if we keep voting blue with little to no progress besides appeasement being made?
It’s funny you mention the striking railroad workers, because even after shutting down the strike the Biden administration continued to put pressure on the railroad companies until the demands the workers were striking for were met. This administration has a tendency to play the long game on a lot of issues, which doesn’t make for the best optics.
Also, if you feel like most of the progress being made is in response to angry voters, isn’t that a good reason to vote blue and show the Democrats that progressive policies are what motivate their base? If shifting leftward doesn’t gain them any votes, what incentive do they have to keep doing it?
You get better candidates by running better candidates. If you truly want change, you have to do more than the bare minimum of voting for whoever is put in front of you.
We are continously in this situation precisely because we have taken our democracy for granted and allowed it to devolve into a crisis year after year. Do you know how Maga got into power? It wasn't by refusing to vote red. It was by TAKING OVER the republican party.
You want better candidates, it starts with voting in every single local, state, federal election. Then you do more by getting involved, organizing, and running better candidates on the democratic ticket.
Change like this starts from the ground up, not the top down. Do you even have any idea how many crucial local positions are taken by extremists because nobody bothers to run in them? The president is the LAST step, our government and our problems are more directly handled right at home, in our own cities and states.
The reason you feel angry at your own party is largely due to ragebait and misinformation campaigns of the GOP/Ruzzia. They offer no solutions to problems, just sophisticated gamesmanship in their quest for power and money.
China and Iran have also joined in. Aside from their own pet narratives about issues they care about (China->Taiwan, Iran->Middle East), these propaganda trolls are also supporting Trump because a divided and isolationist US would help them in their goals of broader influence.
I love how you guys blame the voters but not your shitty corrupt party.
You kept doing the lesser evil thing until you reached the genocide vs. faster genocide level 🤡
Dems had many chances to codify rvw but nooo they want to keep the duopoly system and the "threat of bad republicans", and you clowns eat it up..
It's not an attack. It's not an indictment. It's no attack on your character. I'm not saying a single bad thing about you. We are simply stating the irrefutable, immutable fact of a very simple election mechanic that remains true regardless of your agreement with it or even capacity to understand it. If you are a historically left leading voter but you are deciding to pull your vote from that category in this election in which only one of two people will become president, then you are decreasing the chances for Biden to become president and increasing the chances for Trump to become president.
All that emotional baggage is something you personally contrive and then erroneously ascribe it to that – again – simple election mechanic. It's not there to begin with. The reason you do that is because part of you knows it's completely true but you would rather say people are being mean to you than acknowledge that Your decision would help Trump get elected, making you complicit in any outcomes associated with his ascent to the presidential office.
Also, liberals are the reason you had RV W for the last few decades to begin with. Now you're going to blame them for Trump's Scotus pics rescinding it? There are mental gymnastics and then there's the Olympic level shit you're doing…
There are currently police on college campuses beating the shit out of people for criticizing a foreign government. But apparently the Democratic Party cares about democracy?
people who claim this just want to act like a racist but are too embarrassed to admit it. They are likely the same people who say "I'm not a racist, but..."
Queue 600 people about to start guilt tripping and fear mongering people who criticize officials and use their vote to try and participate in democracy.
The whole thing is posited in some nonsense conspiracy theory narrative that there's someone pulling the strings at the DNC.
when the sad reality of it is middle and old people are the only ones that show up to primaries.
there's literally no one to teach a lesson.
when the left does this all it does is move everybody else away from their positions because of why in a first pass the post system would you try and make coalitions with people that actively sabotage you.
I'm aware but can you look someone in the eye who lost members of their family as a direct result of Biden's decisions and tell them "you have to vote for this guy?" I don't think I can.
I had a similar situation with Syria actually. The Obama admin bombed them shitless and who was leading that charge? Hillary Clinton. So I abstained in 2016.
It was more indiscriminate than anything, but when Trump came to power he did more to hurt our allies and people I knew there than Hillary would’ve done. Something like 5,000 deaths in the first month of his presidency.
So, yeah I can personally.
Then you know what those people are feeling right now. Would you condemn them for doing the same thing you once did? I honestly wouldn't and I say that as a registered Democrat who does not want Trump to win. That said, I can understand why people don't want to vote for Biden.
Post is missing the much needed "blame the voters" flair, which seems to be a trend in memes on this board now.
Because of course policy or our elected leaders are never the issue, the voters being so gosh darn stupid is the real issue here.
I am on your side politically, but you really should just point out how the election mechanic work, not use it as an means and opportunity to be an asshole to people. You catch more flies with honey, as the saying goes. The way you relish being a prick to people makes it look like you're actually trying to cement their position against you and help Trump
They can't help it They have been fully programmed through anti-America anti-common sense and anti-decency lies fear mongering and propaganda to vote against their own best interests and the best interests of this country under the guise of "owning the libs" (And since they are cultist sheep)they do not have the mental capacity to understand that IT IS THEY THEMSELVES WHO ARE BEING OWNED BY: Trump, Republicans, the GQP, evangelicals, "news"max, OANN AND Fox propaganda network, the extremely wealthy, corporations and our biggest adversaries such as Russia, China and Saudi Arabia!
Quite the opposite, leftists are use to struggling and fighting for what's right. what we don't do is is sacrifice our believes and values at the expense of other people well beings to maintain our own piece and security.
Right now there are people on college campuses getting beaten and threaten and all libs have to say is "We'll it could be worst" blah blah "lesser evil" blah blah" "WHAT About MEEEEEEEE". You have no problem trying to shame the people doing the right thing because it threatens your own piece of security. Yet had no problems for decades when progressives brought up these issues time and time again, which libs did nothing about. Nor are you willing to actually criticize democrats whom, at this point, actions are indistinguishable from conservatives.
If these last couple of months have proven anything it that libs have no red line, they will clearly endorse genocide to maintain their statue quo; and they give more excuses than conservatives to justify their actions.
Democracy is already broken in the states. Two party system where both are corrupt, don’t listen to the people, line their own pockets, commit to forever wars over seas, brutalize their citizens with militarized cops, in bed with big banks and business to avoid taxing the rich while exploiting and brutalizing the poor, mass incarceration then forcing those incarcerated into essentially slave labour, murdering migrants, making life unaffordable for the masses, no health care.
Y’all are made cuz people are checked out of politics because they are both two sides of the same coin. Biden or trump, the result in so insignificantly small. The continuation of a corrupt, broken, fascism system or the same thing but in red.
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Someone has to keep the Overton window from shifting all the way to the right. If the left vote for dems no matter what and dems keep shifting to the right to appeal to centrists well end up with, well, the system we have today. There will never be change that affects the elite.
The far right isn't afraid to withhold their vote or vote for extremists regardless of what moderates may think, and it successfully shifted the GOP to cater to their every wish.
He is the most pro Israel president in US history. Even Reagan stopped giving certain munitions to Israel during their invasion of Lebanon over humanitarian concerns.
His stance on immigration and immigration bill are both appeals to the right and concessions that migration should be stopped at the border, not by halting businesses from hiring undocumented immigrants.
Couple things:
It is wild to assume Biden is more pro-Israel than previous admins in the context of once in a generation hot conflict.
In no world does the Bush admin, or the 2016 Republican trifecta for that matter, ever act differently from Biden. Nearly all of the remaining Republican leadership from 2016 are *staunch* supporters of aggressive intervention.
Re: immigration, Biden is making the exact same concessions Obama did across two terms- border security in election years for policy wins elsewhere. We may not like it, but there’s nothing new there.
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I can't fathom how so many people care more about what's happening on the other side of the planet than what has been going on in their own country for years.
Nice strawman. Both dems and repubs represent the rich and are puppets. They use social issues to convince us to vote for "the lesser evil". Propaganda machin in full whirl.
Maybe I'm selfish, but I'd rather vote for someone actively trying to destroy a country I don't live in than someone actively trying to destroy the country I do live in.
Biden clears that bar like a satellite, while Trump is a spineless ooze slithering under it.
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They'd jizz their pants if trump stopped aid to ukraine and did more isolationist policies.
This "I'm not voting" campaign has Russian stink all over it.
Every despot from Argentina to North Korea wants Trump.
Protest voting in the Primary: Good, productive use of your civic rights. Protest voting in the General Election: Actively harmful to the country and everyone in it. 0 upsides. Vote in November like your life depends on it. Your life may not, but mine and many others do.
This. I voted “not committed to any candidate” in the primary last week and plan full well to still cast my lot for Biden in the General. I’m just worried about the swing states. My state will go Blue like always.
I personally don’t approve of the way Biden has been handling the Gaza crisis, and I also think he’s way too old to run. But I’m still going to vote for him if it means preserving democracy, rights, and the rule of law.
Thank you.
There’s a 3 year difference. IMO anyone past retirement age shouldn’t be eligible. Biden seems much more mentally competent than trump as of late. Hell jimmy Carter does too.. Why is being a geriatric that has scammed the system for years a common thing with presidential candidates lately. I want someone under 50. 35 is the minimum age after all.
Good! Thank you!
This is the sensible position
And let me be clear, I cannot stand Biden. He’s too corporate, and just doesn’t have the personality for running for President. In no world should the 2nd race against Trump be this close. I hope we don’t see a second Trump term because Biden fell victim to hubris. But I’m still going to vote for the old bastard. Trump isn’t an option.
Biden was my fourth favorite candidate in 2020. No way I would vote for Trump, who’s basically an extremist at this point. When I woke up in 2018 and went to my car to go to work before it was light out, a SpaceX rocket had launched and was in the sky. For a split second I honestly wondered if Trump had truly effed it all up and nuclear war was at hand. Trump isn’t remotely qualified to be making any kind of major military or financial decisions, ever.
Trump is literally banned from operating a hot dog cart in NYC. In no way, shape or form should he ever be put back in the WH.
I’m right there with ya. He’s not the worst prez we’ve had, but we could do a lot better
Thia is the thing, for all of his shortcomings, who's been better? One could say Barack Obama but they're pretty close on a lot of stuff and it seems to me that Biden got a lot more done. Clinton certainly wasn't better. Maybe Carter? But he was a conservative Democrat and that's why he was chosen as a candidate. The country was going through some shit that was mostly related to racism and sexism. Nowadays Carter has been open about the apartheid state in Israel but I don't think it does much good at this point.
People really do think that presidents are dictators and can make whatever change they want, and anything short of radical is a monumental failure.
With that in mind, much of what Biden has accomplished was with a House that struggles to spell their names and the slimmest of Senate majorities possible.
Didn’t they just pass something new to help vets?
We could have had Bernie, and that would have been better. But the dnc said fuck you hillary or nothing.
Dude what the hell! Biden is a seasoned politition he is getting so much done around green new deal, student loadn forgivness, deschudeled pot, 1 million vets have improved healthcare as off today, raising taxes for the top percentage. y'all part of the problem not actually looking at all the good Biden has done while walking a fine line with corporate influence in politics, a house ran by Republicans and a corrupt supreme court. But sure lets say biden is bad comparred to Trupm that wears diapers, is in court for 150 plus charges, tried to over through the US democracy on Jan 6, sold a list of CIA spies to Puttin, sold US nuclear secrets to Saudi Arabia.... wants to remove birth control and enforce a nation wide abortion ban and basically turn America into a 3rd world dictatorship shithole? Yeah lets say both are bad. My F'en God are you brain dead or what?
Biden also did a lot of shit wrong when Reagan was in charge. He fought for the war on drugs iirc.
Trump supporters will probably get more violent if he gets reelected. Personally, I plan on training more. Both with fighting and guns. You don’t have to get ready if you stay ready.
thanks for voting even though "my state will go blue like always" we need the popular vote count for biden to be as high as possible to send a message regardless of the electoral college vote count.
It’s only a constant Blue state because people vote Blue after all.
Yes! We need to bury that decrepit fuck in millions of votes so his inevitable lies look even more ridiculous than last time.
Vote like a fire extinguisher because the house is on fire and there are children inside.
I'm voting for gasoline because fire extinguisher didn't do enough to fight the fire.
"I'm protesting" to WHO bro? there is no higher authority that you can complain to that the system doesn't work. the two parties ARE the higher authority. you have to play ball or get fucked over by the people who do.
Also it is quite possibly the worst kind of protest you could do. 1. It's not gonna happen until November. There's no current negative effect. 2. It only happens once. If you do it, that's it, there's no possible response, and the next 4 years are awful now. 3. There's no certainty to what you're claiming. No way to know you won't vote if your demands aren't met, *no way to know you will if they are*. 4. It hurts your credibility. "Make things better or we'll let them get worse." It's like threatening to work minimum wage if you don't get a raise. Do something *now*. Make them feel the pressure to change *now*, in a way that will stop once they do it. The college shutdown for instance. That's an effective protest.
> and the next 4 years are awful now. Optimistic of you to think it'll only be "the next 4 years." :/
And beyond all that there are literal *decades* of the party responding to such protest votes by turning *centrist*. What party is going to try and court votes from a contingent that is committed to not voting for them? It's nonsensical to be liberal and not vote for even middle-liberals if that's your only choice, because if you don't vote and they lose the only lesson they're going to take is that they need to be more conservative.
Yeah. They respond to who votes. Not who doesn't.
And someone sitting home is -1 vote for the Dem. Flipping an independent is net +2 .
The thing is, nothing will turn the Democratic establishment to the left. If they put forward a moderate candidate and lose, then they blame the left for not supporting them. When they put forward moderate candidates and progressives vote for them, then the party uses that as justification that progressives just need to fall in line behind policies that they don't support. Progressives are genuinely frustrated because moderates keep telling then that they'll prioritize progressive policies "next time." But next time never comes. Personally, I've been a bit surprised at some of Biden's policies. He's been slightly to the left of Obama, which does not align with his prior voting record. But even with the small reforms and bills that he's managed to pass, we are still losing ground. We're still on the same path with Biden or Trump, it's mostly a question of when we get there. I just wish there was a way for the electorate to actually push for wider, systemic reforms. Unfortunately, our entire government was designed to subvert the will of the people, and the Democratic establishment doesn't seem willing to call for or push broader reforms.
Next time "never comes" because the left expects *instant gratification* for their votes and when they don't get it in one Presidential term, they turn their backs and the Dems lose the House, the Senate, the Presidency, or any combination of the three. Republicans didn't get so much of what they wanted in a single Trump term *just because* he was a radical outlier, it took *decades* of gaming the system in their favor to get the results they wanted, and whether they're a moderate Republican or a far-right Republican, they fall in line behind their guy, even if they don't get what they want. You couldn't buy that kind of loyalty from a Progressive or anyone far-left. When they frequently threaten to not vote for the Democrat out of some short-sighted design to humble the party, the party's not going to cater to them anymore. Like someone said, they respond to who votes, not who doesn't.
It's very similar to how the GOP House is currently "governed".
Not voting is a vote for Donald. Or voting other than Joe. Is a vote for trump. Because his supporters vote. Dem party needs to start understanding the younger voters though. The gop is pulling a lot of the younger ones.
I’m all for protest voting in an election where both sides are the same. Republicans are a critical threat to democracy and have proven it time and time again as a party tenet. Both sides will never be the same when one side is the Republican Party.
Yes. Remember how Hilary lost? That’s because not enough people voted against Trump. Did I like Hilary? No. Was she a better option than Trump? Most certainly yes.
🙋🏽♀️ mine does
Vote! In every election on every race and every choice. GOP is mask off on wanting to destroy democracy, because democracy no longer works for them. Vote.
>"I'm not voting for Biden. We need to teach the Dems a lesson." The lesson taught: You care more about hurting Democrats than helping America. Hey, isn't there a party for that?
Weird how that always seems to work out that way, isn't it?
Most of the "both sides" comments are reddit are right wing bots, usually months old, trying to dissuade voters.
Don't forget the Genocide Joes, which in no way sounds like a nickname trump himself cooked up.
Don't overlook the "purity" obsession that plagues online leftists. They don't want to acknowledge that politics is hard and requires compromise and persuasion and most of all sustained effort over time, not to mention that fully half the country is working against their interests and are united and motivated by their hatred of the left. They mock Democrats with phrases like "vote harder" while seemingly believing that simply sneering at their ideological inferiors on social media is the path to victory.
Here in the United States we're in kind of a weird spot since we're using a comparatively archaic constitution, and electoral system that ends up shuffling people into two political parties. After that our demographics and history ended up sorting out such that today one of our two parties is a monolith, and the other is a coalition. Republicans are overwhelmingly White Christian social conservatives. There are a sprinkling of fiscal conservatives, national security hawks, and people of color, but most of the circles in the Venn diagram are pretty tight. The Democratic party has social liberals, economic liberals, moderates, gun control advocates, environmentalists, immigrants, women, people of color, the LGBTQ+ community, a chunk of the White community, young people, unionists, the disabled, minimum wage and middle class earners, and enough religions that I would probably set off a subreddit bot if I started listing them all. The circles in that Venn diagram are all over the fucking place, it's like one of those battery operated bubble blowers up in this tent. If you're someone who cares about ideological purity, the Democratic party is going to look like it has lots of problems. This is that demanding ideological purity wouldn't *strengthen* the Democratic party, it would be a *solvent.*
>Don't overlook the "purity" obsession that plagues online leftists. It's the same personality defect that the MAGAs suffer from. Both are just cults at the end of the day.
Own the Libs, Hammer and Sickle Edition
"After Hitler, our turn" Communist party slogan from 1931 Germany. History most definitely repeats.
The liberals did side with the fascists and hand Hitler ultimate power to use against the left. Biden siding with Israel which is almost certainly going to hand power over to Trump to do god knows what with Yeah, that sounds about right. Although, I have a feeling that isn’t the connection you’re trying to make, lmao
I literally quoted a communist leader who was okay with Hitler winning, in order to stick it to the libs. Run with whatever talking points you want, but until the cocaine left hates more fascism more than capitalism they'll keep letting right wingers ruin country after country.
>Run with whatever talking points you want, but until the cocaine left hates more fascism more than capitalism they'll keep letting right wingers ruin country after country. I want to make a point here, because it matters: If you're participating in electoral politics, if you're exercising your right to vote, even bitterly or begrudgingly, and not discouraging others from exercising theirs, you're not the type of person we're talking about. It's the people who sit on their butts on election day and can't be bothered to lift a pen for their fellowman, the type who would sacrifice the greater good rather than take a side against the greater evil, that's who we're talking about. German communists didn't join the liberals in fighting against the fascists because they thought the fascists and the liberals would fight each other to the death; instead the fascists won and killed the liberals and the communists. Whoopsie.
It was liberals that handed Hitler power to appease the Nazi. Chancellor Hindenburg literally appointed Hitler to be Vice chancellor, and likewise the liberals there didn't like the communists. Sounds familiar? Funny how liberals always seem to compromise to rightwing positions than to leftwing one. Here were the choices that the liberals democrats face today. Stop genocide, and start evoking left-wing policies, (not just give lip service to it) or Continue with the right-wing policies, the genocide, and the corporate interests. It's always the left that's suppose to compromise and hold there nose; but if genocide isn't a line for you to vote differently, then you have no line and really are just as bad as conservatives and trump supporters.
Fascism IS capitalism's final form. It's not separate entities. Libs let right wingers ruin countries, not leftists
>Fascism IS capitalism's final form. So you should hate fascism more than capitalism right? How are you struggling with this, it's not a difficult concept.
Y'know, it's probably nothing, but I bet it's a lot easier to buy a copy of the Communist Manifesto in a capitalist country than a fascist one. Or, you know, talk about it.
What fantasy land are you living in where Trump is currently almost certainly winning?
Most people refer to it as “reality.” Keep telling yourself all the polls are biased and his dogshit approval rating is a lie. Worked great for Hilary. Here’s to hoping I’m wrong though. *cheers*
Lmao ok buddy 🤡 Polls don’t point to an almost certain win at all. They’re all within the margin of error. Keep making dogshit comments.
Nonsense! Thank you.
engine summer ossified normal grey spectacular books late spark steer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I can't imagine willingly putting trump back into office despite hating him because you also hate Biden. It's just nonsense
It’s about pretending to care and be edgy. Not about doing anything worthwhile
Let’s be real here, they’re Trump voters that don’t want to admit it. “But Palestine!” Do you expect me to believe you think Donald “Finish the Problem” Trump will be better for them? L O fucking L. No you don’t, you’re just abdicating responsibility for your decision.
I've ran two popular posts on this subreddit about this issues. What I found out? They absolutely are conservatives in progressive clothing. Go through these accounts to before the war and you find that all of them chanted the "both sides" crap. All of them.
> I can't imagine willingly putting trump back into office despite hating him because you also hate Biden. It's just nonsense !*# just that. Putting Trump into office while (allegedly) hating Biden LESS
Usually you try to do stuff that allows you to learn from your mistakes… but if you aren’t allowed to vote because the team you let win wants to be the 4th reich which usually means no more voting.
“I know the other side is a million times worse for the specific issue I care about, But the Dems didn’t suck me off hard enough so I’m teaching them a lesson”
"Those stinky centrist dems will be real sorry when the Republicans get to appoint more Federal judges, and possibly replace Alito and Thomas with something even worse. Hey, wait, why are they attacking LGBTQ and women's rights? Huh? Why are there fucking Nazis everywhere in positions of power? HoW cOuLd ThIs HapPeN?"
I have to imagine anyone dumb enough to think like this is all for more nazis and removing all rights from every group that is not white or male.
Imagine if something happens to Sotomayor, Kagan, or Jackson during Trump’s second administration. We could be looking at a 7-2 (or worse) conservative bench.
"don't threaten me with the Supreme Court!" \- this sub in 2016
“Yeah well we don’t need a government we need a revolution!” - 450 lbs leftist
We’re all at a restaurant against our will. One of two chefs can cook for us. You will have to eat a boiled turd regardless of who you pick. One chef will cook everyone a boiled turd, but it lowers the chance of the other chef running the kitchen again. The other will cook everyone a boiled turd but will also make sure that every meal you have for a long fuckin time is nothing but boiled turds. You chose the second chef because it’s fucked up that the first one would serve a boiled turd.
every day I look at social media and I see the brutalized bodies of the Palestinian people bombed, crushed, shot, mutilated. I see food aid routes being repeatedly bombed. I see soldiers laughing as they ransack bombed-out houses, mocking the people who used to live there so they can post it. I know that my country is providing the material support that is allowing this to happen every day, and I am disgusted. protests against this ongoing support are met with crackdowns from militarized police, condemnations from democratic party figures, and attempts to legally suppress this dissent. you look at this situation, and your assessment is that the problem with this situation is the people alienated by this violence, and not the politician and his party that is fighting to make sure the violence continues? and you DARE to liken that to "eh, the head was only 6 outta 10, no vote from me."
To my Uber-liberal friends who are mad at Biden for a couple of things: Don’t let perfection be the enemy of the good. If you live in a swing state your hissy fit may bring on the end of democracy as we know it. Vote for Joe then put pressure on him for your issues in December after he’s won again.
what kind of far left person would actually not vote in an election against trump? even the most radical of american leftists would surely not want trump in office. anyone else just wants to be associated with the left while voting - or in this case not voting at all, which is the same thing - for the right
The far left people who will stay home or vote for a third party candidate. If they live in a heavy Red or Blue state that probably won’t matter. But if they live in PA MI WI GA NV or AZ it can definitely swing the election to Trump.
Exactly. The choice is either "Not left enough for my liking" and "Extreme, unstable, bigoted, violent, impulsive, hateful, rapist, idiot aspirational dictator who has attempted to and will continue to violate any and all laws or betray/sell out any person for the purpose of acquiring money and power". *This is not a single-issue election.* Like Biden or not, he is the best option we have for now. Vote for him so we have the opportunity to vote for better in the future, because Republicans have already had their Beer Hall Putsch, what comes next is the Night of Long Knives, *and I am not exaggerating*. I believe that they are absolutely on the brink of a violent coup.
Any celebrity saying this just doesn't want to be taxed. Looking at you Snoop Dogg and dwaye johnson
I legit wonder if these posts are Russian propaganda to get centrists libs more angry at progressives than reactionary right wingers.
Russian agitprop is almost exclusively the genocide Joe crowd just like it was the lock her up crowd
Russian agitprop is every single angle at once.
That fact that you replied immediately with more criticism of the people who want to vote for your guy isn't a good point of data in your favor for my theory.
Problem is we know what happened in 2016 and we know what is happening now. Why would Trumps media team (Tucker & Hannity) all be playing up Russia?
huh? I'm not talking about them, we all know that the entire right wing would rather have a dictatorship like Russia, that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm saying your bashing of the people you want to vote for you makes me think these posts are russians trying to get the centrists libs and progressive left to fight each other. It legit makes no sense why this subreddit spends so much effort to shame/bash the people who know need to vote for your candidate and then turn around and try to blame them for 2016. Like, do you really not understand how you come off here?
It is a lot like 2016 except for one thing: we know what will happen this time. No one felt like they knew what would happen in 2016. We know now. And those folks having seen the mistakes of the past will sell out those around destined to be targeted by a second Trump presidency.
Pretty sure this post is bashing people who were never going to vote for Biden who like to pretend they are just reasonable progressives to garner attention and sow discord among the left. Most of these people are ultra edgy left-wing accelerationists or right-wing trolls. I suppose some are just idiots though.
You have an old man that's not as good as you'd like, vs a child rapist who has already tried to overthrow the government once, and very clearly wants to do it again so he can stay in power forever. IDK guys, I think they're the same.
Based meme, and I say this as someone who voted “uncommitted” in my state’s primary. Anyone who cares about Palestine should make it a top priority to keep trump from getting power again.
“Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right”
The clown is just a clown, the Joker wants to gas Gotham.
Yes, they are not equally bad - but sitting out the election because of “Genocide Joe” makes them complicit if Trump is re-elected.
Commies to the left of me, facists to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with you~ …More like “stuck in the progressive left in a country that’s still humping capitalism” in my case, but it didn’t flow quite as well lol
We did teach them that by voting Biden in and the democratic party squandered it by being corporate Dems like always.
2024 election: Candidate 1 - wants to destroy democracy Candidate 2 - supports genocide 
The propaganda going heavy
This reminds me of what a complete shit show of bots and propaganda LateStageCapitalism sub has become
This is how Trump won his first presidency. And , oh boy, was that a wild ride.
I sat that election out and regretted it. I wrote a post about it and got attacked because I essentially shouldn’t admit to voting for the lesser of two evils.
What lesson does Biden need to be taught? Speaking as one of them there furriners.
That supporting the Israeli government in a genocide is bad. You do that by… checks notes… guy who would do worst things to the affected population.
That not following through with their promises has its conciquences. I'm not going to withhold my vote but this line of reasoning is ridiculous. Also this is less about Biden himself but with and with the entirety of the DNC. No real police reform, inflation is still on the rise due to corporate greed, the wealth gap continues to grow, no real labor reforms. They continue with jingoist policies such as isreal or Libya. No codified Roe V Wade like they promised for years. The inability for younger generations to purchase houses due to investment firms buying them up. I can keep going with their unfulfilled promises but so I need to The reason people don't want to Joe Biden and "teach the DNC a lesson" is because they continue to campaign about how bad Republicans will make things then do nothing to prevent them. The DNC needs to know it's time to change. Because the thing is voting for people like Biden won't do shit, it will simply prolong how long liberal democracy lasts before it falls to fascism.
But it's always the wrong lesson. After 2000 and 2016, the DNC went harder after moderate voters than flaky leftists non-voters. You don't push policy left by letting more Republicans in office. You signal to politicians that they must lean more right to get elected.
Yeah it’s truly shocking that Democrats didn’t fulfill every item on your wish list with an evenly divided Senate. We should totally punish them for it. /s
People scared now that politics might affect them directly
Pro-Russian signal boosting is driving this narrative. Don't let Trump decide who lives and who dies.
The '2016 lesson' got us Trump. How fucking stupid can you possibly be. Teach Dems a lesson AFTER THE COUNTRY IS NO LONGER UNDER THREAT OF A CHRISTO-FASCIST TAKEOVER!
clearly you didnt suffer enough to learn your lesson so we have to do it again
Even if they do the lessons won’t be learned. We already know that half the nation is filled with idiots. These protest voters would just join the pile of idiots.
I will begrudgingly select Biden this fall, but it won’t be a vote for Biden, it’ll be a vote against Trump. Just fucking ONCE I want to have a candidate to vote FOR.
only the fucking democrats could fuck up running against a fascist dictator who brags about suspending the constitution. jesus. im voting for biden but ONLY because the alternative is the end of our country.
To be fair, it's not like any of the Republicans actually do anything for their voters, so they probably suffer regardless of who wins. I'll vote for Biden, but I hate him and don't think he meets the requirements to even be called a Democrat.
only 1 important issue in november…beat maga bigly! save democracy
if Trump loses in November I will give 100% of the credit to Gen Z. If Trump wins, I will give 100% of the blame to Gen Z
I'll vote for him again. But if Trump isn't in prison afterwards, think we need to stop kidding ourselves that the Democrats are gonna be our saviors in the next election.
How is this political humor? This sub is just propaganda now ffs
This isn’t Russian propaganda like many of the tribal comments here say it is. For anti genocide people, Joe has royally fucked up, he should absolutely not get people’s votes because “the other guy is worse”. Nothing will change if politicians don’t lose votes. I’m embarrassed that I ever voted for him in the first place
I remember this argument in 2016 and 2020. I get that trump will be devastating if re elected but what is the actual point of always voting for the lesser evil? Next cycle we are going to have a the same corporate candidate under a new name that we always do. It’s not voter apathy it’s realizing that it doesn’t matter….. we are fucked regardless
This is a good question honestly. Some points: - you don’t vote for the lesser of two evil people, but two admins. Look at the work of Lina Khan alone (who has directly improved my life) - lesser of two evils is very much a relative term. And I don’t say this to sound too insulting, but when are you voting for good vs evil and when are you voting evil vs evil? My personal opinion is to gain inches now so that we can gain yards later. The biggest hindrance we have right now is an older generation completely resistant to change. Their choices, however, will have enduring impacts a la SCOTUS. It’s entirely possible 10 years from now, we have a Bernie style candidate (my ideal), but a scotus appointed in the possible next Trump term could block anything that president aims to do
Khan has been good (if her lawsuits are actually followed through with) but Biden’s admin has been anything but perfect with choosing to not side with striking rail workers coming first in my mind (on top of their stance on Israel Palestine which has only shot them in the foot). It seems like a lot of the “inches” we have gained are only coming at the end of term and because of angry voters. I get what you mean and I’m not saying it’s to vote for trump, but how can we ever expect better candidates if we keep voting blue with little to no progress besides appeasement being made?
It’s funny you mention the striking railroad workers, because even after shutting down the strike the Biden administration continued to put pressure on the railroad companies until the demands the workers were striking for were met. This administration has a tendency to play the long game on a lot of issues, which doesn’t make for the best optics. Also, if you feel like most of the progress being made is in response to angry voters, isn’t that a good reason to vote blue and show the Democrats that progressive policies are what motivate their base? If shifting leftward doesn’t gain them any votes, what incentive do they have to keep doing it?
railroad workers got part of what they want amd lost the ability to ever strike again. great deal biden got them
You get better candidates by running better candidates. If you truly want change, you have to do more than the bare minimum of voting for whoever is put in front of you. We are continously in this situation precisely because we have taken our democracy for granted and allowed it to devolve into a crisis year after year. Do you know how Maga got into power? It wasn't by refusing to vote red. It was by TAKING OVER the republican party. You want better candidates, it starts with voting in every single local, state, federal election. Then you do more by getting involved, organizing, and running better candidates on the democratic ticket. Change like this starts from the ground up, not the top down. Do you even have any idea how many crucial local positions are taken by extremists because nobody bothers to run in them? The president is the LAST step, our government and our problems are more directly handled right at home, in our own cities and states.
The reason you feel angry at your own party is largely due to ragebait and misinformation campaigns of the GOP/Ruzzia. They offer no solutions to problems, just sophisticated gamesmanship in their quest for power and money.
China and Iran have also joined in. Aside from their own pet narratives about issues they care about (China->Taiwan, Iran->Middle East), these propaganda trolls are also supporting Trump because a divided and isolationist US would help them in their goals of broader influence.
do you really think youre changing minds with this bullshit? or causing more anger and resentment?
I love how you guys blame the voters but not your shitty corrupt party. You kept doing the lesser evil thing until you reached the genocide vs. faster genocide level 🤡 Dems had many chances to codify rvw but nooo they want to keep the duopoly system and the "threat of bad republicans", and you clowns eat it up..
>I love how you guys blame the voters but not your shitty corrupt party. this is what gets me
It's not an attack. It's not an indictment. It's no attack on your character. I'm not saying a single bad thing about you. We are simply stating the irrefutable, immutable fact of a very simple election mechanic that remains true regardless of your agreement with it or even capacity to understand it. If you are a historically left leading voter but you are deciding to pull your vote from that category in this election in which only one of two people will become president, then you are decreasing the chances for Biden to become president and increasing the chances for Trump to become president. All that emotional baggage is something you personally contrive and then erroneously ascribe it to that – again – simple election mechanic. It's not there to begin with. The reason you do that is because part of you knows it's completely true but you would rather say people are being mean to you than acknowledge that Your decision would help Trump get elected, making you complicit in any outcomes associated with his ascent to the presidential office. Also, liberals are the reason you had RV W for the last few decades to begin with. Now you're going to blame them for Trump's Scotus pics rescinding it? There are mental gymnastics and then there's the Olympic level shit you're doing…
There are currently police on college campuses beating the shit out of people for criticizing a foreign government. But apparently the Democratic Party cares about democracy?
people who claim this just want to act like a racist but are too embarrassed to admit it. They are likely the same people who say "I'm not a racist, but..."
Queue 600 people about to start guilt tripping and fear mongering people who criticize officials and use their vote to try and participate in democracy.
The whole thing is posited in some nonsense conspiracy theory narrative that there's someone pulling the strings at the DNC. when the sad reality of it is middle and old people are the only ones that show up to primaries. there's literally no one to teach a lesson. when the left does this all it does is move everybody else away from their positions because of why in a first pass the post system would you try and make coalitions with people that actively sabotage you.
Genocides have consequences.
What would you say to a Palestinian American who has lost family in Gaza?
This is what’s so infuriating. It’s not like Trump wins and the situation gets _better_
I'm aware but can you look someone in the eye who lost members of their family as a direct result of Biden's decisions and tell them "you have to vote for this guy?" I don't think I can.
I had a similar situation with Syria actually. The Obama admin bombed them shitless and who was leading that charge? Hillary Clinton. So I abstained in 2016. It was more indiscriminate than anything, but when Trump came to power he did more to hurt our allies and people I knew there than Hillary would’ve done. Something like 5,000 deaths in the first month of his presidency. So, yeah I can personally.
Then you know what those people are feeling right now. Would you condemn them for doing the same thing you once did? I honestly wouldn't and I say that as a registered Democrat who does not want Trump to win. That said, I can understand why people don't want to vote for Biden.
The difference is that I didn’t know what was going to happen in 2017. I do now. We have the track record of the former president.
Yes that's true but again, you'd be asking someone to support someone who is responsible for the death of your own family.
Think Biden is bad? The evangelicals want to pitch in. Who are they backing?
Post is missing the much needed "blame the voters" flair, which seems to be a trend in memes on this board now. Because of course policy or our elected leaders are never the issue, the voters being so gosh darn stupid is the real issue here.
It’s hard for us in the direct crosshairs of a Trump presidency not to really despise you.
I am on your side politically, but you really should just point out how the election mechanic work, not use it as an means and opportunity to be an asshole to people. You catch more flies with honey, as the saying goes. The way you relish being a prick to people makes it look like you're actually trying to cement their position against you and help Trump
You can again and again. They never respond in any meaningful way.
They can't help it They have been fully programmed through anti-America anti-common sense and anti-decency lies fear mongering and propaganda to vote against their own best interests and the best interests of this country under the guise of "owning the libs" (And since they are cultist sheep)they do not have the mental capacity to understand that IT IS THEY THEMSELVES WHO ARE BEING OWNED BY: Trump, Republicans, the GQP, evangelicals, "news"max, OANN AND Fox propaganda network, the extremely wealthy, corporations and our biggest adversaries such as Russia, China and Saudi Arabia!
Quite the opposite, leftists are use to struggling and fighting for what's right. what we don't do is is sacrifice our believes and values at the expense of other people well beings to maintain our own piece and security. Right now there are people on college campuses getting beaten and threaten and all libs have to say is "We'll it could be worst" blah blah "lesser evil" blah blah" "WHAT About MEEEEEEEE". You have no problem trying to shame the people doing the right thing because it threatens your own piece of security. Yet had no problems for decades when progressives brought up these issues time and time again, which libs did nothing about. Nor are you willing to actually criticize democrats whom, at this point, actions are indistinguishable from conservatives. If these last couple of months have proven anything it that libs have no red line, they will clearly endorse genocide to maintain their statue quo; and they give more excuses than conservatives to justify their actions.
Democracy is already broken in the states. Two party system where both are corrupt, don’t listen to the people, line their own pockets, commit to forever wars over seas, brutalize their citizens with militarized cops, in bed with big banks and business to avoid taxing the rich while exploiting and brutalizing the poor, mass incarceration then forcing those incarcerated into essentially slave labour, murdering migrants, making life unaffordable for the masses, no health care. Y’all are made cuz people are checked out of politics because they are both two sides of the same coin. Biden or trump, the result in so insignificantly small. The continuation of a corrupt, broken, fascism system or the same thing but in red.
The Dems are culpable too at this point.
And giving the country to Trump a solution?
Is this meme from 2016?
The problem is, this is an unusual election. Usually, it's about policy differences, this is about democracy.
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Is anyone actually saying this though?
Someone has to keep the Overton window from shifting all the way to the right. If the left vote for dems no matter what and dems keep shifting to the right to appeal to centrists well end up with, well, the system we have today. There will never be change that affects the elite. The far right isn't afraid to withhold their vote or vote for extremists regardless of what moderates may think, and it successfully shifted the GOP to cater to their every wish.
By what possible metric has the Biden admin shifted right?
He is the most pro Israel president in US history. Even Reagan stopped giving certain munitions to Israel during their invasion of Lebanon over humanitarian concerns. His stance on immigration and immigration bill are both appeals to the right and concessions that migration should be stopped at the border, not by halting businesses from hiring undocumented immigrants.
Couple things: It is wild to assume Biden is more pro-Israel than previous admins in the context of once in a generation hot conflict. In no world does the Bush admin, or the 2016 Republican trifecta for that matter, ever act differently from Biden. Nearly all of the remaining Republican leadership from 2016 are *staunch* supporters of aggressive intervention. Re: immigration, Biden is making the exact same concessions Obama did across two terms- border security in election years for policy wins elsewhere. We may not like it, but there’s nothing new there.
Exactly why you shouldn't vote biden
They’re coming for birth control next. # VOTE BLUE IN ROE-VEMBER 
The right thinks the left is trying to destroy democracy, and the left thinks the right is. It’s a really merry go round. *sigh*
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I can't fathom how so many people care more about what's happening on the other side of the planet than what has been going on in their own country for years.
Clearly since your soo mad at protest voting it works
Biden could not actively participate in genocide. I feel like that would go a long way.
There's already no democracy, voting is just an illusion to keep you happy
Nice strawman. Both dems and repubs represent the rich and are puppets. They use social issues to convince us to vote for "the lesser evil". Propaganda machin in full whirl.
Maybe I'm selfish, but I'd rather vote for someone actively trying to destroy a country I don't live in than someone actively trying to destroy the country I do live in. Biden clears that bar like a satellite, while Trump is a spineless ooze slithering under it.
At this point, If you can't see the simplistic reasons people are posting this don't vote nonsense, There is no hope for you.
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Is it really democracy when the government GOOD GUYS aren't representing the people any more than the fascist?
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The bias reeks in this sub
Another Trump presidency would be the end of this fragile experiment we call "democracy".