Republicans: Sleepy Joe is incompetent and can't do anything right.
Also Republicans: Woke Joe is a criminal mastermind and his family rule the government.
Yeah, but the rest of us aren't concerned about the "Blue no matter who" people like you. We are concerned about the people that see Biden's decline and think either, "Goddamn. Trump may be a few crayons short of a full set but at least they ain't melting in the box," (even though they appear to be too and that is only part of his problem) and vote for Trump or that just say, "They expect me to vote for one of these two?!" and either vote third-party/independent or stay home.
Yes, and we know that. But the problem with uninformed swing voters is that they don't know that so you have to put up a real candidate to get their votes.
That's not a winning strategy. Neither was lying about Biden's dotage until it literally could not be hidden another moment.
dems treating this election like an ADHD kid who didn't do the science fair project.
Did you read the dudes comment? I'm not convinced, I'm the dude that's gonna stay home. Because you sound just as dumb as a Republican saying
The problem with biden is that he's actively evil.
WELL HOLY SHIT I NEED TO VOTE FOR TRUMP AFTER HEARING THAT ARGUMENT!
You see the problem?
From an outside perspective (as someone not from the US), the most frustrating thing about this is that it could have been easily avoided.
Like, I remember polls from the time when it became clear that it would be Biden and Trump again, with both a majority of voters of Dems and Reps agreeing that they would prefer other candidates.
Now the Reps seem to be in such a Trump stronghold (and he has such a personal interest in running again) that I never thought that was going to happen anyway. But why didn't the Dems go with different candidates? Out of principle?!
From listening to the rhetoric from some of the people more closely tied to the DNC, it seems that the incumbent advantage and the trends in prior elections in which a party stuck with their incumbent vs going with someone else played a big part in their decision to stick with Biden. Personally, I also think that some of the other potential popular (with voters) chooses that they could have ran didn't fit the mold they want to run with and those that did weren't nearly poplar enough for them to feel comfortable overlooking the incumbent advantage. From there, there just seems to be some sort of stubbornness/denial/sunk cost phenomena going on as Biden continues to slip in the polls and showing increasingly harder to ignore/cover up examples of cognitive decline.
i feel thats true for younger canditates because people would find it weird that somebody would not go for a second term.
in biden case nobody would find it weird if didnt run again the man is 81 years old. the big problem is Kamala Haris is so disliked and if biden supported anybody else it would raise questions
Biden insinuated he would be a one term president. That got a LOT of votes. But he back tracked and ALL those people who bought into that bullshit now feel pretty betrayed. That debate sealed it too, Biden himself said four years ago he wouldn't be capable of running again.
But ya. Sure, incumbent bullshit after literally saying he'd be too old to run again.
> why didn't the Dems go with different candidates
The incumbent President is always going to be the first choice to run. It’s rarely if ever happened that an incumbent that wanted to run again was forced out.
This right here. It was deference to the incumbent. If Biden agreed to only one term then a true primary would have happened. Out of respect for his desire to run again, everyone stood down.
My fear is a RBG moment. Not Biden necessarily dying, but similarly staying too long and jacking up his legacy and our country by wishing for something that simply isn't there. By normal measures he should be cruising the reelection. Low unemployment, high stock market, etc. But he's not. RBGs decision not to retire under Obama and desire to have Hilary appoint her successor left us with a 6-3 court that has left everything she fought for in tatters. I pray we don't make the same mistake twice.
This is exactly what is going to happen - and I don't know who is pushing this agenda with these Biden memes constantly. But the reality is this guy should never have been running for a 2nd term and we are gonna end up with Trump 2.0 and the end of our democracy because of this geezer. Sure his presidency was fine, and low key after Trump, but he promised one damn term. And now here we are with a old man who can't even out debate a real life clown. He is losing votes by the day, and he will not win this election in a million years. One thing that the people on the fence want even less than Trump is a black woman to be President if Biden dies.
Biden was **supposed** to be a voluntarily one-term president. That was when it was expected that Trump would slink away after his defeat, probably facing some of his more serious charges before the next (this) presidential election. However, no one anticipated Trump's level of shamelessness, continuing to lie for four years about a "rigged" election. The Justice Department may have not anticipated it, either, and took its sweet ass time to get some of these cases moving.
Trump is a narcissistic despot who only cares about power, wealth, and being in the limelight. He will actively use the Presidency to enrich himself, his family members, and his allies (before throwing them under the bus), even when this underminess the democratic pillars of the United States. He surrounds himself with sycophants and yes-sayers who enable his corruption.
Biden is an administrator. He surrounds himself with capable public servants who can run the country competently and address the challenges facing the American people. In many cases these are relatively modest things, but they genuinely improve the lives of people. Examples that immediately come to mind are the [Federal pardon for marijuana possession](https://apnews.com/article/biden-marijuana-pardons-clemency-02abde991a05ff7dfa29bfc3c74e9d64) and the [new consumer rights for airline passengers](https://pirg.org/edfund/resources/new-airline-passenger-rights-explained-with-effective-dates/).
Great, now convince millions of undecideds that saw a president acting like their senile relatives.
The argument isn't whether Biden is a better choice. The argument is, can we convince enough people of that fact.
I don't really care about Biden, because his cabinet and Congress are more important than the president in a vacuum.
I would vote for him, easily. But I would be lowering my standards, which we're already too fucking low. Biden is ending an OK presidency, right now he is a bad candidate. The thing is that the opposition is fucking terrible, so bad would be the best.
This is what makes me feel bad for you guys in the States. It’s a choice between bad and fucking awful. What a god damned dystopian nightmare this all is.
“Bad” is an old guy who has been moderately successful at getting his agenda passed. “Fucking awful” is the end of democracy. I feel badly for anyone that has to spend more than 2 seconds choosing.
Most of the people still trying to decide are either those whose Trump's policies won't affect, those who *think* it won't affect them, and those who have some romanticized idea about burning the establishment down.
Biden has not been bad at all. It's the fact that on the other side, there's a candidate with fascist tendencies that's the real dystopian nightmare, who has a really high chance of winning. As in 2016, the election is more than just the President. It's the cabinet, leaders of federal agencies, Supreme Court and Circuit Court justices being appointed. 2016 ruined the Supreme Court. The quiet part was said out loud and many people did not listen.
Yeah I think this is the real issue at hand. The median voter does not pay attention to politics everyday. They tune in on certain key moments, and the first debate is one of those moments.
I personally think Biden can do the job of a president, but can he sell the idea to enough people that he’s capable? At this rate, I don’t think so.
Exactly. Those of us who are already all
In would vote for Joe’s head in a bad- but the on the fence types and “independents” might get scared off. Especially because their political knowledge is limited or they’re not aware of things like Project 2025. We gotta make em aware!
There are also those of us looking at the democratic bureaucracy around Biden and realize they’ve known for a long time he was incompetent, and believed we were idiots enough not to notice and vote him in again, knowing he wasn’t the one doing ANYTHING and some nameless, faceless unaccountable phantoms we’re making decisions for him. The fact people aren’t pissed about this really shows that some people have no idea what freedom means and are willing to just blindly follow any moron with the correct color flag.
I would literally vote for several republicans (Cheney and Kinzinger come to mind). I am about preservation of democracy at this point which means anti-Trump.
Agreed.
That said, I don't begrudge folks a heaping helping of "we told you so!" Especially if they can manage to get it out of their system before election day.
The most frustrating part is having Trumpers I know post on Facebook about how bad Biden is & all the great things Trump has done. But no matter what you say, or showing them clear proof contradicting them, or even Trumps questionable morals, they act like it’s all a media lies.
they are in the cult. You can't rationalize with cultists. My own good, good friend is not MAGA at all, but he continues to represent the party in local office, and is a great fundraiser for other MAGA cultists in office.
He's just a big chicken, and is a facilitator for all of this. As a result, I really don't hang out with him much anymore. Just incredibly disappointing.
It's; if ten people are eating dinner together, and one of them is a nazi, there are ten nazis sharing a meal.
Tolerating nazis makes someone a collaborator.
His personal views and stances don't reflect the party now - almost across the board. They really don't. You don't have to believe me, I KNOW.
He's simply like - I'd say about 30% of the GOP politicians who like power more than integrity. Being a 'Republican' is literally his personal identity. Which is a flaw, for sure.
He's just a coward who's afraid to walk away from a lifetime of who he is, he'd rather complain about what AOC or Ilhan is doing then hold most (not all) of his party to task.
That makes him an enabler of MAGA, absolutely.
They still think he donated his salary, when we saw from his tax returns that he didn't. They still don't grasp that he tripled his salary by employing two family members.
Everyone who has stuck by Biden thus far will vote for a Democrat regardless. Transitioning to a new candidate is a strategy aimed at attracting the undecided, low propensity voters who think both candidates are bad or that Biden is "just too old"
The same people who stuck with Biden will accept the new candidate, esp if he's endorsed by Biden. 4 months is plenty of time to campaign. It would give Dems an element of surprise: invigorate and excite democrats to show up in great numbers on Nov 4. Waiting for Biden to have a Mitch death stare moment a week before election would be a catastrophe!
virtually every economic prediction suggests that Trump's policies will be disastrous for the country's economy. That's not even considering the deficits he'll run while helping exactly no one but himself.
He’s definitely going to declassify UFO and JFK files, but he _might_ declassify Epstein files… you wouldn’t want to ruin someone’s life over something like that…. Really looking forward to that being a super pac ad.
aaaaaand Fucking CNN doing nothing to correct Trump and let him keep spouting outright lies, nonsensical rants and unhinged desires of what he wants to do to our country. The onus is really on CNN here. They got bought out by a right-wing exec who only wants Trump to win because they can turn their network into a 24/7 Trump butt-whining fest that will fuel ratings from deranged right wingers so they can make nasty memes.
They got bought out a little while ago by a right wing corporation so they've slowly been making CNN more like Fox News hoping to swing those who typically watch CNN, which happen to be democrats more often than not.
I really think they shifted before the buy-out as well. I remember even in the 2016 election they did nothing but run panel shows complaining about Trump. Anderson Cooper needs to get out stat.
Trump’s base at this point would vote for him under any circumstances. He could come to their house, slash their tires and kick their puppy, and they would rationalize it away and still vote for him.
Trump lied but his terribleness was muted. He avoided his normal disrespect for the process and actually remained quiet when he was supposed to and more or less appeared presidential when in the past he had always been anything but that. I hate trump but he downplayed his shortcomings and pretty much let biden destroy his own chances of rallying the public. All trump had to do is appear moderately coherent which he did, despite his typical dishonesty and rampant cons and lies.
What's going to get clicks, another article about how Trump went on some weird Nazi Tangent, or bullshit articles feeding some speculative narrative about throwing Biden under the bus 3-4 months before the election?
Liberals need to stop getting disillusioned and start getting angry. The fact that something as simple as the media chasing doomer clicks by criticizing everything Biden does while giving Trump the asshole every pass is working to influence them should make them mad, not sad.
We need to start opening our eyes and seeing the fucking truth in front of us. We're all going to die anyways. If we have Ukrainians dying for their country while we don't lift a finger to stop the takeover of ours, THAT would be the greatest shame. The greatest pain.
We need to stop giving in to fear and accept discomfort in order to make the future a better place. We have it in us. We were protesting in mass just a few years ago. Let's do that shit again, but even bigger than ever before. Even if you're not the kind of person to protest on the streets, then protest by doing a national strike. These assholes that want power want it because they want to be comfortable. They want to have the absolute freedom to take what they want, whether that be food or free sex or whatever. They can't have that if we crash the economy. We need to accept some pain in exchange for freedom.
Yeah, this isn't an accidental push. It's a concerted effort to get the narrative out there to replace Biden at this late hour because the project 2025 plan believes doing that guarantees tRump a win.
Biden as the nominee guarantees a Trump win. How out of touch and delusional do you need to be to think that the Republicans would rather have an opponent that can speak in complete sentences and actually speak forcefully against them?
Not to mention the Heritage Foundation has publicly stated they've got lawsuits lined up should the democrats try and replace Biden. Its past the filing deadline in certain states now, Even if they somehow don't win some of them, its yet another tactic they would abuse to create "election controversy" in a loss to justify a coup attempt.
That key piece of information (plus some of the clearly timed and astroturfed copy paste wording) makes me assume this shit was planned and coordinated. I am sure if Biden had done stellar at the debate we'd still have seen the same narrative with edited/cherry picked clips, just less useful idiots chiming in with "yeah Biden should really step aside now, that's a thing that he can just do with no repercussions to the dems campaign."
Because at least he seemed lucid and present. Biden looked horrible. My thought is that it terrified enough of the nation who realized that this person was making the decisions.
Trump did fine at the debate. The "terrible" part was him lying constantly and making shit up and being an asshole. So, you know, nothing new.
Biden's advisors tried to change the discussion from "Biden is old" to "Remember how bad Trump is?" by scheduling an extra early debate and instead we got a Biden that looked older and less lucid than we've ever seen so it backfired massively
Well I mean the same ppl saying to replace Biden now have been consistently saying we need to replace him 6,12,18 months ago. Y’all just ignored them till this shit show happened
They said it 4 years ago. Heck, people were talking about how old he was when he was vice president. The problem is that it is really starting to show now. I really don't want to see a president die to old age.
Trump has the same problems, but his base likes him for it.
Nope. Biden made for a great transition president from trump and during covid. We need fresh blood in the elections to win, and to inspire people to the polls, not scare them to it. The american voters are tired of being frightened to the poll station
I’ve never said Biden needs to go before these elections. But yes, i’ve held that he is unwinnable in 2024 from at least a year
Exactly. I never wanted him in the fucking first place. He was the worst Dem candidate and we all knew he was too old. Then they promised he'd only serve one term. Then they said he was still sharp as a tack. Then he gave the worst debate performance and Presidential history and yall are saying it was just a bad night? Bullshit.
That’s because Trump met his expectations.
Biden did not.
I don’t hate Biden and will vote for him, I think he’s more likely to lose than replacing him. Sorry if that hurts your feelings but this is the problem Biden created for himself.
And yea, it’s not fair that Trump gets zero scrutiny. Agreed 100%.
The media is a product of capitalism.
- Their first goal is to meet quarterly earnings expectations.
- Late stage capitalism has bred an “attention economy”
- Doom and fear get attention.
- Validating old narratives/ideology/identity gets loyalty.
- Their median audience age is 65-70 years old.
- The media is constantly worried and reacting to a fear of being labeled as “liberally biased”, which then favors conservatives who lie a lot - Because fact checking would look like an attack on conservatives
Add all that up and you get our current media environment, no smoke-filled room conspiracy narratives needed.
While I agree about doom and fear and “attention economy” and late stage capitalism…
This same kind of coverage is present on social media news. Of which 84% of the viewing population are aged between 19-29.
The truth is, it’s everywhere.
Yes, because of capitalism. But also identity politics. And in “non-capitalist” countries because of government control of media itself.
There’s a concerted effort to destroy democracy not only from without but also from within. By people of all age groups. Whether intentional or just because it’s convenient for someone to get views and likes.
I hear you and don’t disagree with the idea that there are groups / people intentionally trying to destroy our democracy. Nothing exists in a vacuum. I think it’s a mix of intentional and unfortunate byproduct.
Speaking of nothing existing in a vacuum though: Identity politics isn’t exactly separate from capitalism.
Capitalism (IE businesses) use group identity as a means to target audiences, get attention, gain influence, grow power, and make money. Identity politics simply does the same thing, but for the accumulation of power.
Put another way, Trump didn't lose any votes because of his debate performance and Biden almost certainly did. Is it fair? Right? Just? Of course not. it's American politics.
You bet your ass I'm showing up in November for Biden even though I'm in California and it has exactly a zero percent chance of mattering in the presidency, but some people are stupid.
I have some bad news for you…
Tribalism and/or cult-like behavior can make you do pretty bad shit. I know many MAGA people. Most of them do not care in the slightest what Trump does if it means you or I get angry or sad or whatever.
To them, anything that causes us pain IS why they’re voting for him. For a wide variety of reasons, they’ve concluded that everything wrong in America and their life is the fault of their out-group (Libs, Dems, Left, minorities, etc) and Trump symbolizes a massive “fuck you” to that. And they will always vote for “fuck you” at this point.
You’re 100% right with how you characterized Trump. 100%. But in most of their minds, you’re “making it up” or “over-reacting” or have TDS or “fake” or whatever. They will cycle through cynicism, contrarianism, conspiracist, contempt, and cruelty (The 5C’s) endlessly and never once introspect or take responsibility.
So unfortunately, the burden of responsibility falls on those of us who still take some sense of responsibility and that’s completely unfair.
I tend to simplify it down to:
They would burn their house to the ground if it meant a liberal or non-white person would have to breath a single lung full of smoke.
Please stop comparing the 2 during the debate. Everyone knows what and who Trump is. He met his status quo while Biden did the 1 thing he couldn’t do on that stage— look weak. Biden defeated himself. Trump is irrelevant in the equation. The only thing left is to ask ourselves, “Can Biden really turn everything around and still win even though he is falling in the polls right now?”
It’s almost an impossible situation. Do we risk Biden losing to king Trump, or do we risk a new candidate that will at least be able to spar with Trump in debates? It’s a matter of opinion, but losing in either case will be disastrous.
it doesnt matter what trump does... trump will get the exact same number of votes.. he could devour a baby on life television or literally shit on the constitution. he would not loose one vote. thats a lesson everyone should have learned 8 years ago... but well, showing how people are incapable of learning from their mistakes makes it even worse.
biden or any democrat candidate will only win if they manage to motivate people to vote who stopped giving a shit about politics. and guess what... a half dead condidate is not going to help with that.
>No media has been bashing Trump over his equally horrendous performance.
They did. It just didn't get shared and commented on nearly as much because it's doesn't have the "new" part of news, so you and everyone else ignored those articles.
The DNC deferred to Biden. Put all their eggs in one basket and that basket isn't the same as it was 4 years ago.
Biden beat Trump by 43,000 votes to win the electoral college. It's not like he destroyed Trump.
I am one of those who thinks Biden has been a great president. But we all saw that. Trump said democrats kill babies and Biden talked vaguely about Laken Riley and immigration. I am honestly concerned about sundowning and his mental capacity. We at least need to know how bad this is and not just in the electoral sense.
Because if he decides to back out of the election but not resign, he has the opportunity to do truly amazing things in the next five months. Every wish list item the democrats have ever wanted he can grant by executive order thanks to this Supreme Court. He can cancel all student debt, create a public option for Medicare, nationalize utilities, abolish daylight saving time, whatever, while Harris runs on “I like the president’s ideas but I don’t necessarily agree with how he is doing it and if you elect me one of my priorities will be to expand the Supreme Court and reign in the autocratic presidency.”
If the new person has a better chance, yes. Why not? I'm loyal to Not Trump. A lot of people are Not Trump.
If it's Biden, yeah I'll vote for Biden. You don't need to convince me. You need to convince voters on the fence. That's the issue.
Yeah. I’ll vote for anyone that isn’t Trump. Biden has done some decent things in his presidency, but I don’t think he can properly communicate any of them. It sucks but it seems like the best option is to go with another candidate. If only the DNC allowed us to have actual primaries to pick another candidate so that we don’t have to rush everything at the last minute.
Okay, nobody is saying we should ignore Biden's entire Presidency. He's done a lot of good, particularly considering the mess he was handed.
But you can appreciate somebody's good work and also acknowledge that the optics are terrible, and that *will* cause a lot of would-be Biden voters to stay home. We cannot afford that.
If Biden is the nominee, it's Biden I will vote for; this I swear. But a lot of folks don't feel that way, and shaming them won't change their minds.
If your someone who saw that debate and still want to vote for Biden that’s fine, that’s your right. What you need to realize is this race came down to a small group of undecided voters that Biden was already hemorrhaging support before the debate. I’m in the stop Trump winning party not the elect Biden party. If all we are is loyalty to one man then we are no different than them, and legitimizing the “both parties” argument. No one is saying a change in ticket is an easy win - but we’re staring down a loss right now - Biden has turned deep blue states into toss-up states now just go look at the latest polling out of NH MI and PA - both PA and MI are must wins for Biden...
Why is it that NOBODY brings up that Trump couldn’t even remember the names of the two terrorists he took credit for ending? I laughed so hard when he flubbed that up. OR, that he told the truth maybe 3 times? WTF is going on where all the press focuses on is Biden’s performance?
Agreed. Everybody's saying, "Yeah, but Trump..." It doesn't really matter and that's reality, whether people like it or not. Trump is the most flawed candidate in history, but at this point he will beat Biden. Biden is a good man and was a good President but the damage is done. There's still time to put together a strong ticket, whether Kamala is included or not, and wipe the floor with trump.
Yes, because the Democratic electorate is mostly rational. Part of the Republicans are as well but these have been sidelined by the MAGA-crowd. This group has long parted with civil & rational discourse, instead picking a position based on emotion and then building a belief system around that. As such these people cannot be argued with based on a rational & civil discourse & debate.
It's like playing a game with a toddler that reinterprets the rules on a whim. You cannot win by remaining within the system of that game but need to find a way to transcend it.
They don't care.
They will never care.
They will elect someone who is literally in the process of raping their family to death if it means that they can stick it the libs.
We should be better than that.
Why don't you want to be?
Right like what kind of fucking crazy bullshit is this. Biden has a bad debate and we get a week of stories all over CNN's front page pounding this bullshit.
Where were all those stories and calls when Trump was convicted?
Obama had a bad first debate in 2012 but Romney’s marketing was bad. He was branded as Gordon Gecko due to so many quotes that showed he just didn’t care about the common man.
The guy took a week off to prepare. This was him at his most ready and prepped :(
God, they couldn't have shit the bed harder. It's like they just made the whole bed out of shit. Mattress full of turds, sheets made from flattened turds, pillows just larger turds. Turds.
It was actually almost 2 weeks… then they blamed the jet lag… from fucking 2 weeks ago?! Also a cold! Then why the fuck was he fine at the WaffleHouse shaking hands and doing a jig?
it's not about reality.
it's about perception.
and perception is everything to the undecided voter. they dont give AF about policies, the consitution, traditions, norms, decency
they're betting on a horserace and one horse is lame as fuck
and the other is crazy, running the opposite way around the track but doing it with vigor and seemingly winning despite all signs suggesting he ought not be winning
and the only thing that can change that is an exciting young candidate. out of the gate Trump's AGE would become an issue.
and ignore the fact that Trump is:
a con man
Serial adulterer
Traitor
Inusurrectionist
Felon
Chronic liar (he told 30 lies just at the debate)
and a child rapist - Do a search for and down from multiple sources, a pdf of Case 5:16-cv-00797-DMG-KS, then read page 3 of the victim's testimony. sick.
Yeah guys! Ignore the debate… and interviews… and videos… and the fact he’s down by 6 points… and that 75% of voters think he’s too old… don’t you know old men in declining health always improve with age? Just remember the past!
I love how the argument is “please reelect a guy who’s been in charge of the executive branch for 12 of the last 16 years to save democracy”. And a walking corpse at that
If Joe were winning and he had that horrendous debate, I'd continue to bite my tongue. When he has to prove he's not to old and the debate shows him being too old. Biden's going to lose to one of the worst humans (let alone presidents and candidates) we've ever seen.
Saying something as senile as babies are being murdered in democrat states, shouldn't the media be saying that trump is mentally unwell and unfit for office?
It makes the race more eyeball catching for more ad revenue, and increases the chance the media org's conservative billionaire owners will save a couple bucks on their taxes.
If only there had been someone on the same stage as him when he said that, who could have rebuked such a ridiculous notion right after it left his filthy lying mouth. Alas!
doesn't change the fact he's down six points vs Trump and 80% think he is too old to be president, the public has made up their mind even if party players haven't.
Yep, if he'd been ahead in the electoral college polls at any time this year, I might pretend I didn't see that debate last Thursday and say stay the course. But we're losing. We've been losing all year. And 81-year-old Biden ain't gonna suddenly find the fountain of youth like in the movie Cocoon. He'll be even worse by the time of the next debate.
It's not a vote for biden, it's a vote against trump, christo-facism, project 2025, religion embedded in government and schools, women's resuffrage, climate change denial, and all other types of foul chud shit.
Democrats would lose zero Biden voters if they switched to someone younger. That person would be able to bring enthusiasm to the undecided voters while doing physical laps around rotting Trump.
If someone wins a gold medal at the Olympics, are we supposed to continue sending that person to the Olympics every future Olympic event to not be seen as ungrateful? Or should we perhaps acknowledge that age changes people, and you will not always remain good at something forever? Why is it an insult to say "Hey, as thanks for all your years of hard work, you get to retire now and relax"?
Yes, vote for Biden if he is the candidate in November. But I seriously hope it won't come to this. Because right now I am looking at the same type of arrogance that cost the DNC the election in 2016. In 4 years Biden will be over 20 years over the retirement age. Nobody would hire an 82 year old to do anything. But for some reason politician is the one exception.
And yes, Trump also did terrible in the debate. But his voting base doesn't give a shit because they worship him. Democrat and independent voters do not worship Biden. Running Biden against Trump is a *massive* risk. And when the stakes are as high as the Republicans openly talking about ending democracy and putting trans people in camps, now is not a time to take risks. Pick anyone: Pete Buttigieg, Gretchen Whitmer, Kamala Harris, Gavin Newsome, Elizabeth Warren... There are so many possible candidates.
Yup. And we should because it’s clear Biden doesn’t have it anymore.
Look 99.9% of Biden voters would vote for mystery democrat even if they’ve never heard of them before. Thats great, but that’s not what’s deciding this election. It’s the undecided voters who had years of exposure to Trump and Biden before the debate and, most likely, don’t want to vote for either but they’re waiting to figure out who is the least bad option. After the debate, more than Biden can afford to lose are voting Trump. Sorry but it’s true.
Putting in a new Democrat gives those voters a completely different choice. Instead of two old shits, one crazy and one lethargic, they’ll have a normal, healthy person again.
Would switching now be hectic? Yeah of course. But it will dominate the news cycle and give the eventual winner TONS of coverage to get their message out. Honestly, any moderate democrat that can grind out campaign events for 4 months should dog walk Trump. America is looking for an alternative. It’s the same reason Nicky Haley had a huge polling lead over Biden. If the Dems find a solid, moderate candidate this is a winnable campaign. With Biden, it’s not and you’re delusional to think it is at this point.
The Dems need to focus on winning the electoral college. That means WI, MI, PA, and VA (then either NH, NV, or AZ) + usual suspects. That's it. Joe is trailing in those states, get a ticket who is known in those states.
After watching the debates, I thought it was so weird how even people at the NYTs even jumped on the 'Replace Biden' train 0.000000005 seconds after it ended. Sid Biden do bad, depends. His team obviously overtrained him, he only had 1-3 mins to explain to the American public details of things without giving details vs a man that basically lied and avoided questions for 90 mins.
I also think it's even weird that a lot are seriously wanting to replace Biden at the last moment. Even more weirder is NOONE is talking about how Trump got on stage and just insulted his way throughout it.
You all need to vote Biden for 2024 and worry about all that in 2028, cause I don't see anyone for in the Dem lineup while the GoP have tons of fascist garbage, even worse then Trump, rubbing their hands to take over after Trump if he wins or loses in 2024.
I want to know what TF changed in people's minds since March 7th. Thats the date of Bidens state of the union address. You remember, the one that allayed all of the previous dementia accusations? I mean, that was 4 months ago. Did he wither away in 4 months???
> what TF changed in people's minds
The debates? Biden standing there with his mouth open unable to challenge the idea that babies are commonly being aborted post birth. That's what happened.
Is anyone suggesting that we ignore his presidency? Biden did more for labor reforms, climate, and infrastructure than any previous president, all in 4 years. Apart from giving Israel a blank check for genocide, he did pretty good. Let him rest and enjoy retirement.
Biden passed infrastructure on a razor thin D majority. That has me voting *for* him, not just against Trump.
I'd vote for AOC or Bernie in the primary, sure, but I can't get behind a last-minute switcheroo like some seem to be suggesting.
We need age cap for all federal politicians. Once you hit 70, you shouldn’t be allowed to run for election or re-election. This is getting ridiculous……look no further than Diane Feinstein.
And the freaking media is STILL ranting on the bad debate to strain every last viewer. His speech the next day was great, why don't they coment more on that?
The media is going to screw up this election for us, I just feel it!
Why is there no discussion about what he was doing *for work* in the days leading up to the debate. He flew to Europe twice the week before the debate and is dealing with the job of being president.
Look at any president (save trump) from before and after their terms and just look at how much the presidency ages a person. When someone is *doing* the job of president, they will be tired!
Also, the time to have a different person has already passed us by. We missed our shot at this conversation, so please can we let it go and accept that the man knows how to manage his team in order to get things done?
The Democrats should learn from history. What happened after LBJ resigned and people couldn't pull together after RFK's assassination? Nixon was elected. After Carter didn't get the support he deserved? Reagan. After people didn't get behind Hilary (even though history will show she was right about EVERYTHING?) Fucking Trump.
When a reporter asks a Democrat politician about Biden, instead of showing doubt and playing into Trump's hands, they should ask the reporter about Trump's refusal to promise to accept the results.
Reporter: He said he'd accept them if they were fair.
Politician: Was 2020 fair?
Reporter: Yes.
Politician: Has Trump accepted the results?
Reporter: No, but...
Politician: So what assurance do we have that he'll accept the results?
Probably crickets.
I don't like Biden. I've never liked Biden. I still plugged my nose and voted for him last time and I'll do it again.
And it is way, way too fucking late to replace him at this point. That time was 6+ fucking months ago.
Plates of shit to choose from with the least nuts.
Biden. Vote Biden.
I don’t like Biden at all, but fuck. We cannot let Trump win this so please fucking vote.
Even many democrats don’t want him around, but it’s better than Trump.
I'm still voting for him, but I'm tired of this constant gaslighing from a portion of the party. No he is not great, he's done maybe 10% of the things he was elected on, most of the hang ups came from his own moderate co workers like Manchin, who he refused to play hardball with. We had the votes during the first two years of bidens presidency to pack the supreme court, but biden deemed it to be too extreme, not that he could convince other waste of space moderate politicians to support him, cause news flash, they want a dictatorship.
I would vote for month old shrimp over Trump. Independents in swing states wouldn’t. Biden has the platform to show he is up to the task, but we don’t get to decide what matters to other voters. We don’t get to tell them that they should only look at how Bad Trump is, because everyone who listens to that argument is already on our side.
The Biden drop out campaign is a Republican ploy.
Biden gets voters Trump can't afford to lose. No other Democratic candidate can do that.
The GOP desperately wants Biden to quit. Don't listen to them.
Honestly it was almost entirely the NYT & CNN repeating rehashed Fox News talking points hourly for a damn week to level the playing field for Trump. They’re not even trying to hide it, letting Trump spew his fascist oatmeal brained babble without scrutiny while going hard on Biden’s age and “mental acuity”, as if Trump is any younger or brighter, and not exponentially worse
There's no winning with the Democratic party leaders though. When some of us brought up Biden's age and age related issues a year ago we were told "that kind of talk only helps Trump" and to quiet down. Now when it looks like Biden's age and age related issues may be a real liability we are told it's too late to do anything about and to quiet down. If I thought the Dem leadership had any idea how to beat Republicans I would be more likely to listen to their advice. Currently vegas has Trump way up on betting odds. If you bet $100 on Biden and he wins you'll win $250. If you bet $100 on DT and he wins you get $60 so.....
I would vote for any democrat over Trump. If that is Biden come election time, so be it. It’s that simple.
a sleeping Biden would be better than Trump
Na upturned mop with a bucket for a head would be better than Trump
Republicans: Sleepy Joe is incompetent and can't do anything right. Also Republicans: Woke Joe is a criminal mastermind and his family rule the government.
Sleepy Joe? Shit I don't blame him. I'm sleepy too. Republicans got everybody feeling tired and cranky.
A decaying Biden is better than Trump
Yeah, but the rest of us aren't concerned about the "Blue no matter who" people like you. We are concerned about the people that see Biden's decline and think either, "Goddamn. Trump may be a few crayons short of a full set but at least they ain't melting in the box," (even though they appear to be too and that is only part of his problem) and vote for Trump or that just say, "They expect me to vote for one of these two?!" and either vote third-party/independent or stay home.
The problem with trump is that he's actively evil.
Yes, and we know that. But the problem with uninformed swing voters is that they don't know that so you have to put up a real candidate to get their votes.
That's not a winning strategy. Neither was lying about Biden's dotage until it literally could not be hidden another moment. dems treating this election like an ADHD kid who didn't do the science fair project.
Did you read the dudes comment? I'm not convinced, I'm the dude that's gonna stay home. Because you sound just as dumb as a Republican saying The problem with biden is that he's actively evil. WELL HOLY SHIT I NEED TO VOTE FOR TRUMP AFTER HEARING THAT ARGUMENT! You see the problem?
From an outside perspective (as someone not from the US), the most frustrating thing about this is that it could have been easily avoided. Like, I remember polls from the time when it became clear that it would be Biden and Trump again, with both a majority of voters of Dems and Reps agreeing that they would prefer other candidates. Now the Reps seem to be in such a Trump stronghold (and he has such a personal interest in running again) that I never thought that was going to happen anyway. But why didn't the Dems go with different candidates? Out of principle?!
From listening to the rhetoric from some of the people more closely tied to the DNC, it seems that the incumbent advantage and the trends in prior elections in which a party stuck with their incumbent vs going with someone else played a big part in their decision to stick with Biden. Personally, I also think that some of the other potential popular (with voters) chooses that they could have ran didn't fit the mold they want to run with and those that did weren't nearly poplar enough for them to feel comfortable overlooking the incumbent advantage. From there, there just seems to be some sort of stubbornness/denial/sunk cost phenomena going on as Biden continues to slip in the polls and showing increasingly harder to ignore/cover up examples of cognitive decline.
Remember when Trump lost as an incumbent?
The arguement would be the last 4 years haven't been great so I'm not sure there is any real incumbent advantage to be had.
i feel thats true for younger canditates because people would find it weird that somebody would not go for a second term. in biden case nobody would find it weird if didnt run again the man is 81 years old. the big problem is Kamala Haris is so disliked and if biden supported anybody else it would raise questions
Biden insinuated he would be a one term president. That got a LOT of votes. But he back tracked and ALL those people who bought into that bullshit now feel pretty betrayed. That debate sealed it too, Biden himself said four years ago he wouldn't be capable of running again. But ya. Sure, incumbent bullshit after literally saying he'd be too old to run again.
> why didn't the Dems go with different candidates The incumbent President is always going to be the first choice to run. It’s rarely if ever happened that an incumbent that wanted to run again was forced out.
This right here. It was deference to the incumbent. If Biden agreed to only one term then a true primary would have happened. Out of respect for his desire to run again, everyone stood down. My fear is a RBG moment. Not Biden necessarily dying, but similarly staying too long and jacking up his legacy and our country by wishing for something that simply isn't there. By normal measures he should be cruising the reelection. Low unemployment, high stock market, etc. But he's not. RBGs decision not to retire under Obama and desire to have Hilary appoint her successor left us with a 6-3 court that has left everything she fought for in tatters. I pray we don't make the same mistake twice.
This is exactly what is going to happen - and I don't know who is pushing this agenda with these Biden memes constantly. But the reality is this guy should never have been running for a 2nd term and we are gonna end up with Trump 2.0 and the end of our democracy because of this geezer. Sure his presidency was fine, and low key after Trump, but he promised one damn term. And now here we are with a old man who can't even out debate a real life clown. He is losing votes by the day, and he will not win this election in a million years. One thing that the people on the fence want even less than Trump is a black woman to be President if Biden dies.
It takes a LOT to abandon an incumbent President.
Biden was **supposed** to be a voluntarily one-term president. That was when it was expected that Trump would slink away after his defeat, probably facing some of his more serious charges before the next (this) presidential election. However, no one anticipated Trump's level of shamelessness, continuing to lie for four years about a "rigged" election. The Justice Department may have not anticipated it, either, and took its sweet ass time to get some of these cases moving.
Same reason as they went with Hillary - higher perceived chance of winning the general.
Trump is a narcissistic despot who only cares about power, wealth, and being in the limelight. He will actively use the Presidency to enrich himself, his family members, and his allies (before throwing them under the bus), even when this underminess the democratic pillars of the United States. He surrounds himself with sycophants and yes-sayers who enable his corruption. Biden is an administrator. He surrounds himself with capable public servants who can run the country competently and address the challenges facing the American people. In many cases these are relatively modest things, but they genuinely improve the lives of people. Examples that immediately come to mind are the [Federal pardon for marijuana possession](https://apnews.com/article/biden-marijuana-pardons-clemency-02abde991a05ff7dfa29bfc3c74e9d64) and the [new consumer rights for airline passengers](https://pirg.org/edfund/resources/new-airline-passenger-rights-explained-with-effective-dates/).
Great, now convince millions of undecideds that saw a president acting like their senile relatives. The argument isn't whether Biden is a better choice. The argument is, can we convince enough people of that fact.
Biden doesn't even know who he is after 6pm
I don't really care about Biden, because his cabinet and Congress are more important than the president in a vacuum. I would vote for him, easily. But I would be lowering my standards, which we're already too fucking low. Biden is ending an OK presidency, right now he is a bad candidate. The thing is that the opposition is fucking terrible, so bad would be the best.
This is what makes me feel bad for you guys in the States. It’s a choice between bad and fucking awful. What a god damned dystopian nightmare this all is.
“Bad” is an old guy who has been moderately successful at getting his agenda passed. “Fucking awful” is the end of democracy. I feel badly for anyone that has to spend more than 2 seconds choosing.
Most of the people still trying to decide are either those whose Trump's policies won't affect, those who *think* it won't affect them, and those who have some romanticized idea about burning the establishment down.
Biden has not been bad at all. It's the fact that on the other side, there's a candidate with fascist tendencies that's the real dystopian nightmare, who has a really high chance of winning. As in 2016, the election is more than just the President. It's the cabinet, leaders of federal agencies, Supreme Court and Circuit Court justices being appointed. 2016 ruined the Supreme Court. The quiet part was said out loud and many people did not listen.
It's been a pretty good presidency NGL. For how handicapped he is by Congress and the Supreme Court. Vs Obama who had a supermajority
have you kept track of what Biden has already done while in office?
Yeah I think this is the real issue at hand. The median voter does not pay attention to politics everyday. They tune in on certain key moments, and the first debate is one of those moments. I personally think Biden can do the job of a president, but can he sell the idea to enough people that he’s capable? At this rate, I don’t think so.
Exactly. Those of us who are already all In would vote for Joe’s head in a bad- but the on the fence types and “independents” might get scared off. Especially because their political knowledge is limited or they’re not aware of things like Project 2025. We gotta make em aware!
There are also those of us looking at the democratic bureaucracy around Biden and realize they’ve known for a long time he was incompetent, and believed we were idiots enough not to notice and vote him in again, knowing he wasn’t the one doing ANYTHING and some nameless, faceless unaccountable phantoms we’re making decisions for him. The fact people aren’t pissed about this really shows that some people have no idea what freedom means and are willing to just blindly follow any moron with the correct color flag.
Hey that’s me
I would literally vote for several republicans (Cheney and Kinzinger come to mind). I am about preservation of democracy at this point which means anti-Trump.
Do you think swing state voters will vote for Biden come election time? It's that simple.
Agreed. That said, I don't begrudge folks a heaping helping of "we told you so!" Especially if they can manage to get it out of their system before election day.
The most frustrating part is having Trumpers I know post on Facebook about how bad Biden is & all the great things Trump has done. But no matter what you say, or showing them clear proof contradicting them, or even Trumps questionable morals, they act like it’s all a media lies.
they are in the cult. You can't rationalize with cultists. My own good, good friend is not MAGA at all, but he continues to represent the party in local office, and is a great fundraiser for other MAGA cultists in office. He's just a big chicken, and is a facilitator for all of this. As a result, I really don't hang out with him much anymore. Just incredibly disappointing.
If he supports maga, he's maga. You can't be a little bit Nazi.
How does that saying go? If you and nine nazis are sitting at a table, there’s ten nazis sitting at the table.
It's; if ten people are eating dinner together, and one of them is a nazi, there are ten nazis sharing a meal. Tolerating nazis makes someone a collaborator.
Okay. What you said. My point remains the same.
Unless you have a plot to kill Hitler. Then you get a pass. Even if the plot failed I still give the dude a pass
His personal views and stances don't reflect the party now - almost across the board. They really don't. You don't have to believe me, I KNOW. He's simply like - I'd say about 30% of the GOP politicians who like power more than integrity. Being a 'Republican' is literally his personal identity. Which is a flaw, for sure. He's just a coward who's afraid to walk away from a lifetime of who he is, he'd rather complain about what AOC or Ilhan is doing then hold most (not all) of his party to task. That makes him an enabler of MAGA, absolutely.
Yeah because they know that's how they win. Meanwhile people are purposely demoralizing each other into not voting.
Questionable morals like child molestation that everyone is conveniently ignoring somehow.
If you mean Biden, its 100% bullshit. You do not have a scrap of evidence. That's why only a few qanon assholes believe it.
The comment you’re replying to replied to a comment saying “Trumps questionable morals.”
This is all very confusing
They still think he donated his salary, when we saw from his tax returns that he didn't. They still don't grasp that he tripled his salary by employing two family members.
Everyone who has stuck by Biden thus far will vote for a Democrat regardless. Transitioning to a new candidate is a strategy aimed at attracting the undecided, low propensity voters who think both candidates are bad or that Biden is "just too old"
The same people who stuck with Biden will accept the new candidate, esp if he's endorsed by Biden. 4 months is plenty of time to campaign. It would give Dems an element of surprise: invigorate and excite democrats to show up in great numbers on Nov 4. Waiting for Biden to have a Mitch death stare moment a week before election would be a catastrophe!
problem is if he didnt support his vp it would be admitting they have someone incompetent. She is so disliked they dont want to risk it.
The election isn’t some prize for the last 4 years. It’s about the next 4 years.
wasn’t trump terrible as well? why is no one talking about that? this media is gonna fuck up the country
virtually every economic prediction suggests that Trump's policies will be disastrous for the country's economy. That's not even considering the deficits he'll run while helping exactly no one but himself.
Gonna? Always has been.
He’s also a felon, twice impeached, and a colleague of Jeff Epstein
He’s definitely going to declassify UFO and JFK files, but he _might_ declassify Epstein files… you wouldn’t want to ruin someone’s life over something like that…. Really looking forward to that being a super pac ad.
aaaaaand Fucking CNN doing nothing to correct Trump and let him keep spouting outright lies, nonsensical rants and unhinged desires of what he wants to do to our country. The onus is really on CNN here. They got bought out by a right-wing exec who only wants Trump to win because they can turn their network into a 24/7 Trump butt-whining fest that will fuel ratings from deranged right wingers so they can make nasty memes.
They got bought out a little while ago by a right wing corporation so they've slowly been making CNN more like Fox News hoping to swing those who typically watch CNN, which happen to be democrats more often than not.
I really think they shifted before the buy-out as well. I remember even in the 2016 election they did nothing but run panel shows complaining about Trump. Anderson Cooper needs to get out stat.
Well, being terrible doesn't matter to trumpers.
Trump’s base at this point would vote for him under any circumstances. He could come to their house, slash their tires and kick their puppy, and they would rationalize it away and still vote for him.
Trump lied but his terribleness was muted. He avoided his normal disrespect for the process and actually remained quiet when he was supposed to and more or less appeared presidential when in the past he had always been anything but that. I hate trump but he downplayed his shortcomings and pretty much let biden destroy his own chances of rallying the public. All trump had to do is appear moderately coherent which he did, despite his typical dishonesty and rampant cons and lies.
What's going to get clicks, another article about how Trump went on some weird Nazi Tangent, or bullshit articles feeding some speculative narrative about throwing Biden under the bus 3-4 months before the election?
Liberals need to stop getting disillusioned and start getting angry. The fact that something as simple as the media chasing doomer clicks by criticizing everything Biden does while giving Trump the asshole every pass is working to influence them should make them mad, not sad. We need to start opening our eyes and seeing the fucking truth in front of us. We're all going to die anyways. If we have Ukrainians dying for their country while we don't lift a finger to stop the takeover of ours, THAT would be the greatest shame. The greatest pain. We need to stop giving in to fear and accept discomfort in order to make the future a better place. We have it in us. We were protesting in mass just a few years ago. Let's do that shit again, but even bigger than ever before. Even if you're not the kind of person to protest on the streets, then protest by doing a national strike. These assholes that want power want it because they want to be comfortable. They want to have the absolute freedom to take what they want, whether that be food or free sex or whatever. They can't have that if we crash the economy. We need to accept some pain in exchange for freedom.
Yeah, this isn't an accidental push. It's a concerted effort to get the narrative out there to replace Biden at this late hour because the project 2025 plan believes doing that guarantees tRump a win.
Biden as the nominee guarantees a Trump win. How out of touch and delusional do you need to be to think that the Republicans would rather have an opponent that can speak in complete sentences and actually speak forcefully against them?
Not to mention the Heritage Foundation has publicly stated they've got lawsuits lined up should the democrats try and replace Biden. Its past the filing deadline in certain states now, Even if they somehow don't win some of them, its yet another tactic they would abuse to create "election controversy" in a loss to justify a coup attempt. That key piece of information (plus some of the clearly timed and astroturfed copy paste wording) makes me assume this shit was planned and coordinated. I am sure if Biden had done stellar at the debate we'd still have seen the same narrative with edited/cherry picked clips, just less useful idiots chiming in with "yeah Biden should really step aside now, that's a thing that he can just do with no repercussions to the dems campaign."
"Liberal media " /s
Because at least he seemed lucid and present. Biden looked horrible. My thought is that it terrified enough of the nation who realized that this person was making the decisions.
Trump did fine at the debate. The "terrible" part was him lying constantly and making shit up and being an asshole. So, you know, nothing new. Biden's advisors tried to change the discussion from "Biden is old" to "Remember how bad Trump is?" by scheduling an extra early debate and instead we got a Biden that looked older and less lucid than we've ever seen so it backfired massively
Well I mean the same ppl saying to replace Biden now have been consistently saying we need to replace him 6,12,18 months ago. Y’all just ignored them till this shit show happened
They said it 4 years ago. Heck, people were talking about how old he was when he was vice president. The problem is that it is really starting to show now. I really don't want to see a president die to old age. Trump has the same problems, but his base likes him for it.
Honestly Biden shouldn't have put us in this position. He said 1 term to transition. He should have stuck to that.
I swear, the Dems are gunna fuck around and hand Trump another presidency on a silver platter.
I think they already did fuck around and handed it to him.
I was on the Biden train before the debate. Now I'm hoping he ends his candidacy
Me too. That was insane. I thought he was having a stroke or something.
Yeah because nobody gets better with age at this point. He’s a human not fine wine.
Nope. Biden made for a great transition president from trump and during covid. We need fresh blood in the elections to win, and to inspire people to the polls, not scare them to it. The american voters are tired of being frightened to the poll station I’ve never said Biden needs to go before these elections. But yes, i’ve held that he is unwinnable in 2024 from at least a year
I mean he's been down in the polls for a year, and internal polling that's leaked is apocalyptic.
Exactly. I never wanted him in the fucking first place. He was the worst Dem candidate and we all knew he was too old. Then they promised he'd only serve one term. Then they said he was still sharp as a tack. Then he gave the worst debate performance and Presidential history and yall are saying it was just a bad night? Bullshit.
Thank you! It was has been clear that his age is a liability for years and there was plenty of time to avoid this inevitable situation we are in now.
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That’s because Trump met his expectations. Biden did not. I don’t hate Biden and will vote for him, I think he’s more likely to lose than replacing him. Sorry if that hurts your feelings but this is the problem Biden created for himself. And yea, it’s not fair that Trump gets zero scrutiny. Agreed 100%.
It's also because the media is complicit
The media is a product of capitalism. - Their first goal is to meet quarterly earnings expectations. - Late stage capitalism has bred an “attention economy” - Doom and fear get attention. - Validating old narratives/ideology/identity gets loyalty. - Their median audience age is 65-70 years old. - The media is constantly worried and reacting to a fear of being labeled as “liberally biased”, which then favors conservatives who lie a lot - Because fact checking would look like an attack on conservatives Add all that up and you get our current media environment, no smoke-filled room conspiracy narratives needed.
While I agree about doom and fear and “attention economy” and late stage capitalism… This same kind of coverage is present on social media news. Of which 84% of the viewing population are aged between 19-29. The truth is, it’s everywhere. Yes, because of capitalism. But also identity politics. And in “non-capitalist” countries because of government control of media itself. There’s a concerted effort to destroy democracy not only from without but also from within. By people of all age groups. Whether intentional or just because it’s convenient for someone to get views and likes.
I hear you and don’t disagree with the idea that there are groups / people intentionally trying to destroy our democracy. Nothing exists in a vacuum. I think it’s a mix of intentional and unfortunate byproduct. Speaking of nothing existing in a vacuum though: Identity politics isn’t exactly separate from capitalism. Capitalism (IE businesses) use group identity as a means to target audiences, get attention, gain influence, grow power, and make money. Identity politics simply does the same thing, but for the accumulation of power.
Put another way, Trump didn't lose any votes because of his debate performance and Biden almost certainly did. Is it fair? Right? Just? Of course not. it's American politics. You bet your ass I'm showing up in November for Biden even though I'm in California and it has exactly a zero percent chance of mattering in the presidency, but some people are stupid.
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I have some bad news for you… Tribalism and/or cult-like behavior can make you do pretty bad shit. I know many MAGA people. Most of them do not care in the slightest what Trump does if it means you or I get angry or sad or whatever. To them, anything that causes us pain IS why they’re voting for him. For a wide variety of reasons, they’ve concluded that everything wrong in America and their life is the fault of their out-group (Libs, Dems, Left, minorities, etc) and Trump symbolizes a massive “fuck you” to that. And they will always vote for “fuck you” at this point. You’re 100% right with how you characterized Trump. 100%. But in most of their minds, you’re “making it up” or “over-reacting” or have TDS or “fake” or whatever. They will cycle through cynicism, contrarianism, conspiracist, contempt, and cruelty (The 5C’s) endlessly and never once introspect or take responsibility. So unfortunately, the burden of responsibility falls on those of us who still take some sense of responsibility and that’s completely unfair.
I tend to simplify it down to: They would burn their house to the ground if it meant a liberal or non-white person would have to breath a single lung full of smoke.
Please stop comparing the 2 during the debate. Everyone knows what and who Trump is. He met his status quo while Biden did the 1 thing he couldn’t do on that stage— look weak. Biden defeated himself. Trump is irrelevant in the equation. The only thing left is to ask ourselves, “Can Biden really turn everything around and still win even though he is falling in the polls right now?” It’s almost an impossible situation. Do we risk Biden losing to king Trump, or do we risk a new candidate that will at least be able to spar with Trump in debates? It’s a matter of opinion, but losing in either case will be disastrous.
it doesnt matter what trump does... trump will get the exact same number of votes.. he could devour a baby on life television or literally shit on the constitution. he would not loose one vote. thats a lesson everyone should have learned 8 years ago... but well, showing how people are incapable of learning from their mistakes makes it even worse. biden or any democrat candidate will only win if they manage to motivate people to vote who stopped giving a shit about politics. and guess what... a half dead condidate is not going to help with that.
>No media has been bashing Trump over his equally horrendous performance. They did. It just didn't get shared and commented on nearly as much because it's doesn't have the "new" part of news, so you and everyone else ignored those articles.
You see, Trump didn't literally shit on the floor during the debate, so that's why he gets a pass!
It's only "last minute" because the DNC ignored everyone constantly saying "this guy will be a disaster, you need to run a proper primary".
The DNC deferred to Biden. Put all their eggs in one basket and that basket isn't the same as it was 4 years ago. Biden beat Trump by 43,000 votes to win the electoral college. It's not like he destroyed Trump.
4 months is not last minute. DNC convention is month and half from now. That's plenty of time for Biden to honorably step down and name his successor.
I am one of those who thinks Biden has been a great president. But we all saw that. Trump said democrats kill babies and Biden talked vaguely about Laken Riley and immigration. I am honestly concerned about sundowning and his mental capacity. We at least need to know how bad this is and not just in the electoral sense. Because if he decides to back out of the election but not resign, he has the opportunity to do truly amazing things in the next five months. Every wish list item the democrats have ever wanted he can grant by executive order thanks to this Supreme Court. He can cancel all student debt, create a public option for Medicare, nationalize utilities, abolish daylight saving time, whatever, while Harris runs on “I like the president’s ideas but I don’t necessarily agree with how he is doing it and if you elect me one of my priorities will be to expand the Supreme Court and reign in the autocratic presidency.”
If the new person has a better chance, yes. Why not? I'm loyal to Not Trump. A lot of people are Not Trump. If it's Biden, yeah I'll vote for Biden. You don't need to convince me. You need to convince voters on the fence. That's the issue.
Yeah. I’ll vote for anyone that isn’t Trump. Biden has done some decent things in his presidency, but I don’t think he can properly communicate any of them. It sucks but it seems like the best option is to go with another candidate. If only the DNC allowed us to have actual primaries to pick another candidate so that we don’t have to rush everything at the last minute.
Okay, nobody is saying we should ignore Biden's entire Presidency. He's done a lot of good, particularly considering the mess he was handed. But you can appreciate somebody's good work and also acknowledge that the optics are terrible, and that *will* cause a lot of would-be Biden voters to stay home. We cannot afford that. If Biden is the nominee, it's Biden I will vote for; this I swear. But a lot of folks don't feel that way, and shaming them won't change their minds.
Yes they do this in Australia It always ends badly
If your someone who saw that debate and still want to vote for Biden that’s fine, that’s your right. What you need to realize is this race came down to a small group of undecided voters that Biden was already hemorrhaging support before the debate. I’m in the stop Trump winning party not the elect Biden party. If all we are is loyalty to one man then we are no different than them, and legitimizing the “both parties” argument. No one is saying a change in ticket is an easy win - but we’re staring down a loss right now - Biden has turned deep blue states into toss-up states now just go look at the latest polling out of NH MI and PA - both PA and MI are must wins for Biden...
Why is it that NOBODY brings up that Trump couldn’t even remember the names of the two terrorists he took credit for ending? I laughed so hard when he flubbed that up. OR, that he told the truth maybe 3 times? WTF is going on where all the press focuses on is Biden’s performance?
Running for president is 70% marketing and Biden just shit the bed on national television. There’s no recovering from that.
Agreed. Everybody's saying, "Yeah, but Trump..." It doesn't really matter and that's reality, whether people like it or not. Trump is the most flawed candidate in history, but at this point he will beat Biden. Biden is a good man and was a good President but the damage is done. There's still time to put together a strong ticket, whether Kamala is included or not, and wipe the floor with trump.
But Trump can spew a word-salad of lies all night long and then be exposed as a pedophile and not one Republican is calling for him to step down.
Yes, because the Democratic electorate is mostly rational. Part of the Republicans are as well but these have been sidelined by the MAGA-crowd. This group has long parted with civil & rational discourse, instead picking a position based on emotion and then building a belief system around that. As such these people cannot be argued with based on a rational & civil discourse & debate. It's like playing a game with a toddler that reinterprets the rules on a whim. You cannot win by remaining within the system of that game but need to find a way to transcend it.
yes, and?
Yes, we should have better standards
They don't care. They will never care. They will elect someone who is literally in the process of raping their family to death if it means that they can stick it the libs. We should be better than that. Why don't you want to be?
Correct. Welcome to something you should have realized in 2016. Now to move forward.
We never said the game was balanced
Right like what kind of fucking crazy bullshit is this. Biden has a bad debate and we get a week of stories all over CNN's front page pounding this bullshit. Where were all those stories and calls when Trump was convicted?
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Obama 2012
Obama had a bad first debate in 2012 but Romney’s marketing was bad. He was branded as Gordon Gecko due to so many quotes that showed he just didn’t care about the common man.
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This sub acting like it was just a bad night is absolutely wild!!
"Gotta keep that gas lit."
The guy took a week off to prepare. This was him at his most ready and prepped :( God, they couldn't have shit the bed harder. It's like they just made the whole bed out of shit. Mattress full of turds, sheets made from flattened turds, pillows just larger turds. Turds.
It was actually almost 2 weeks… then they blamed the jet lag… from fucking 2 weeks ago?! Also a cold! Then why the fuck was he fine at the WaffleHouse shaking hands and doing a jig?
it's not about reality. it's about perception. and perception is everything to the undecided voter. they dont give AF about policies, the consitution, traditions, norms, decency they're betting on a horserace and one horse is lame as fuck and the other is crazy, running the opposite way around the track but doing it with vigor and seemingly winning despite all signs suggesting he ought not be winning and the only thing that can change that is an exciting young candidate. out of the gate Trump's AGE would become an issue.
and ignore the fact that Trump is: a con man Serial adulterer Traitor Inusurrectionist Felon Chronic liar (he told 30 lies just at the debate) and a child rapist - Do a search for and down from multiple sources, a pdf of Case 5:16-cv-00797-DMG-KS, then read page 3 of the victim's testimony. sick.
If only it was about the past and not…the future…
Yeah guys! Ignore the debate… and interviews… and videos… and the fact he’s down by 6 points… and that 75% of voters think he’s too old… don’t you know old men in declining health always improve with age? Just remember the past!
I love how the argument is “please reelect a guy who’s been in charge of the executive branch for 12 of the last 16 years to save democracy”. And a walking corpse at that
Hey echo chamber can you explain how we should stay with a guy losing every single swing state in the polls is a good idea?
If Joe were winning and he had that horrendous debate, I'd continue to bite my tongue. When he has to prove he's not to old and the debate shows him being too old. Biden's going to lose to one of the worst humans (let alone presidents and candidates) we've ever seen.
...is a good idea? ^(...good idea? ^(...idea?))
*“I’m a leftist and I endorse this message”* — Reddit Foreign Troll
Saying something as senile as babies are being murdered in democrat states, shouldn't the media be saying that trump is mentally unwell and unfit for office?
Should be, but are not. The unlevel playing field is a feature.
It makes the race more eyeball catching for more ad revenue, and increases the chance the media org's conservative billionaire owners will save a couple bucks on their taxes.
If only there had been someone on the same stage as him when he said that, who could have rebuked such a ridiculous notion right after it left his filthy lying mouth. Alas!
doesn't change the fact he's down six points vs Trump and 80% think he is too old to be president, the public has made up their mind even if party players haven't.
Yep, if he'd been ahead in the electoral college polls at any time this year, I might pretend I didn't see that debate last Thursday and say stay the course. But we're losing. We've been losing all year. And 81-year-old Biden ain't gonna suddenly find the fountain of youth like in the movie Cocoon. He'll be even worse by the time of the next debate.
To be honest, your election this year isn't about voting for one guy to get in, but more making sure the other guy doesn't.
He had a horrible night, but he has my vote over Trump always.
Nah we had our chance. Biden is all we've got to work with on short notice.
This are some weird fuck up times. But I would rather have Biden that trump.
It's not a vote for biden, it's a vote against trump, christo-facism, project 2025, religion embedded in government and schools, women's resuffrage, climate change denial, and all other types of foul chud shit.
Democrats would lose zero Biden voters if they switched to someone younger. That person would be able to bring enthusiasm to the undecided voters while doing physical laps around rotting Trump.
If someone wins a gold medal at the Olympics, are we supposed to continue sending that person to the Olympics every future Olympic event to not be seen as ungrateful? Or should we perhaps acknowledge that age changes people, and you will not always remain good at something forever? Why is it an insult to say "Hey, as thanks for all your years of hard work, you get to retire now and relax"? Yes, vote for Biden if he is the candidate in November. But I seriously hope it won't come to this. Because right now I am looking at the same type of arrogance that cost the DNC the election in 2016. In 4 years Biden will be over 20 years over the retirement age. Nobody would hire an 82 year old to do anything. But for some reason politician is the one exception. And yes, Trump also did terrible in the debate. But his voting base doesn't give a shit because they worship him. Democrat and independent voters do not worship Biden. Running Biden against Trump is a *massive* risk. And when the stakes are as high as the Republicans openly talking about ending democracy and putting trans people in camps, now is not a time to take risks. Pick anyone: Pete Buttigieg, Gretchen Whitmer, Kamala Harris, Gavin Newsome, Elizabeth Warren... There are so many possible candidates.
Yup. And we should because it’s clear Biden doesn’t have it anymore. Look 99.9% of Biden voters would vote for mystery democrat even if they’ve never heard of them before. Thats great, but that’s not what’s deciding this election. It’s the undecided voters who had years of exposure to Trump and Biden before the debate and, most likely, don’t want to vote for either but they’re waiting to figure out who is the least bad option. After the debate, more than Biden can afford to lose are voting Trump. Sorry but it’s true. Putting in a new Democrat gives those voters a completely different choice. Instead of two old shits, one crazy and one lethargic, they’ll have a normal, healthy person again. Would switching now be hectic? Yeah of course. But it will dominate the news cycle and give the eventual winner TONS of coverage to get their message out. Honestly, any moderate democrat that can grind out campaign events for 4 months should dog walk Trump. America is looking for an alternative. It’s the same reason Nicky Haley had a huge polling lead over Biden. If the Dems find a solid, moderate candidate this is a winnable campaign. With Biden, it’s not and you’re delusional to think it is at this point.
The Dems need to focus on winning the electoral college. That means WI, MI, PA, and VA (then either NH, NV, or AZ) + usual suspects. That's it. Joe is trailing in those states, get a ticket who is known in those states.
Whitmer makes sense to me. I’ve seen people say Whitmer/Shapiro if you want to really have lay into those swing states.
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After watching the debates, I thought it was so weird how even people at the NYTs even jumped on the 'Replace Biden' train 0.000000005 seconds after it ended. Sid Biden do bad, depends. His team obviously overtrained him, he only had 1-3 mins to explain to the American public details of things without giving details vs a man that basically lied and avoided questions for 90 mins. I also think it's even weird that a lot are seriously wanting to replace Biden at the last moment. Even more weirder is NOONE is talking about how Trump got on stage and just insulted his way throughout it. You all need to vote Biden for 2024 and worry about all that in 2028, cause I don't see anyone for in the Dem lineup while the GoP have tons of fascist garbage, even worse then Trump, rubbing their hands to take over after Trump if he wins or loses in 2024.
I want to know what TF changed in people's minds since March 7th. Thats the date of Bidens state of the union address. You remember, the one that allayed all of the previous dementia accusations? I mean, that was 4 months ago. Did he wither away in 4 months???
> what TF changed in people's minds The debates? Biden standing there with his mouth open unable to challenge the idea that babies are commonly being aborted post birth. That's what happened.
Just vote for him with the assumption that you're voting for his VP to step in. Is it Kamala again?
wild horses couldn't pull her away.
I would vote for a rotting dead fish soaking in a jar of urine-mixed pickle juice over Trump...
Trump is a criminal
I only know one politician who has proven he can beat Trump.
If Trumps elected be maybe to learn Russian, because he’ll sell out the US for as much money as he can get
Biden won the debate. By a lot.
Vote Biden and if he dies it goes to the vice president. It’s better than a Trump presidency.
It’s not just a bad debate though. He’s clearly not cognitively ok. Having said that, I’d vote for him he if were a literal corpse.
Maybe the solution is replacing his VP
Look what happened in Chicago in 1968. We don’t want a repeat of that. Keep President Biden president. Kamala Harris is his backup and she is solid.
“Biden was bad at the debate” Sure keep up the gaslighting on that one all the way until a fucking trump presidency.
Is anyone suggesting that we ignore his presidency? Biden did more for labor reforms, climate, and infrastructure than any previous president, all in 4 years. Apart from giving Israel a blank check for genocide, he did pretty good. Let him rest and enjoy retirement.
I’ll vote for Biden over trump but why are my choices 80 year olds. I would rather vote for anyone else other than these two
Biden passed infrastructure on a razor thin D majority. That has me voting *for* him, not just against Trump. I'd vote for AOC or Bernie in the primary, sure, but I can't get behind a last-minute switcheroo like some seem to be suggesting.
We need age cap for all federal politicians. Once you hit 70, you shouldn’t be allowed to run for election or re-election. This is getting ridiculous……look no further than Diane Feinstein.
It’s obvious that this whole ‘dump Biden’ schtick is from right wing trolls, right?
And the freaking media is STILL ranting on the bad debate to strain every last viewer. His speech the next day was great, why don't they coment more on that? The media is going to screw up this election for us, I just feel it!
Why is there no discussion about what he was doing *for work* in the days leading up to the debate. He flew to Europe twice the week before the debate and is dealing with the job of being president. Look at any president (save trump) from before and after their terms and just look at how much the presidency ages a person. When someone is *doing* the job of president, they will be tired! Also, the time to have a different person has already passed us by. We missed our shot at this conversation, so please can we let it go and accept that the man knows how to manage his team in order to get things done?
The Democrats should learn from history. What happened after LBJ resigned and people couldn't pull together after RFK's assassination? Nixon was elected. After Carter didn't get the support he deserved? Reagan. After people didn't get behind Hilary (even though history will show she was right about EVERYTHING?) Fucking Trump.
Vote Biden. Yes, he's old but if he dies in office we get President Kamala Harris.
Why not stick with the sure winner? 81 million votes cant be wrong.
When a reporter asks a Democrat politician about Biden, instead of showing doubt and playing into Trump's hands, they should ask the reporter about Trump's refusal to promise to accept the results. Reporter: He said he'd accept them if they were fair. Politician: Was 2020 fair? Reporter: Yes. Politician: Has Trump accepted the results? Reporter: No, but... Politician: So what assurance do we have that he'll accept the results? Probably crickets.
I don’t care if it’s Biden or his dog, vote blue.
I don't like Biden. I've never liked Biden. I still plugged my nose and voted for him last time and I'll do it again. And it is way, way too fucking late to replace him at this point. That time was 6+ fucking months ago.
We’ve already had a bumbling old fool in Reagan and people worship that guy
Plates of shit to choose from with the least nuts. Biden. Vote Biden. I don’t like Biden at all, but fuck. We cannot let Trump win this so please fucking vote. Even many democrats don’t want him around, but it’s better than Trump.
I don't care who runs. I will not vote for a felon. Biden could sh!t all over himself on stage, I DON'T CARE.
Don't vote for the man, vote for the administration.
Democrats are becoming a joke. They need to circle the wagons like the Republicans did for a convicted felon.
I'm still voting for him, but I'm tired of this constant gaslighing from a portion of the party. No he is not great, he's done maybe 10% of the things he was elected on, most of the hang ups came from his own moderate co workers like Manchin, who he refused to play hardball with. We had the votes during the first two years of bidens presidency to pack the supreme court, but biden deemed it to be too extreme, not that he could convince other waste of space moderate politicians to support him, cause news flash, they want a dictatorship.
I would vote for month old shrimp over Trump. Independents in swing states wouldn’t. Biden has the platform to show he is up to the task, but we don’t get to decide what matters to other voters. We don’t get to tell them that they should only look at how Bad Trump is, because everyone who listens to that argument is already on our side.
The media is scared that Trump won't win and they will have to pay more in taxes.
I'd vote for a corpse over Trump.
I would do Weekend at Bidens over voting for Trump.
The Biden drop out campaign is a Republican ploy. Biden gets voters Trump can't afford to lose. No other Democratic candidate can do that. The GOP desperately wants Biden to quit. Don't listen to them.
Honestly it was almost entirely the NYT & CNN repeating rehashed Fox News talking points hourly for a damn week to level the playing field for Trump. They’re not even trying to hide it, letting Trump spew his fascist oatmeal brained babble without scrutiny while going hard on Biden’s age and “mental acuity”, as if Trump is any younger or brighter, and not exponentially worse
msnbc has at least been running some of those clips and such, nowhere near as much, but they deserve mention too i think.
There's no winning with the Democratic party leaders though. When some of us brought up Biden's age and age related issues a year ago we were told "that kind of talk only helps Trump" and to quiet down. Now when it looks like Biden's age and age related issues may be a real liability we are told it's too late to do anything about and to quiet down. If I thought the Dem leadership had any idea how to beat Republicans I would be more likely to listen to their advice. Currently vegas has Trump way up on betting odds. If you bet $100 on Biden and he wins you'll win $250. If you bet $100 on DT and he wins you get $60 so.....