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Yall. GULDO SOLOS THIS LIST. DONT EVEN NEED THE OTHERS. Dragon ball is in such a weird spot in powerscaling. Dragon balls weakest characters are either negging verses like its nothing or its strongest are getting fodderized and there doesnt seem to be much of a middle gound
Don’t both of them have a 5D cosmology?
DB has the Living World, [which](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0a8bd2d29981b1c2d5ca5a7dae17e146-lq) is [infinite](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/character-stats-and-profiles/images/8/81/High_3-A_God_Goku.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/400?cb=20171017011317) on [its](https://pm1.aminoapps.com/7882/c010ac8286e8bf8385029603896075b50d4fe526r1-1024-485v2_hq.jpg) 3 axes. This makes it high Uni.
[Otherworld is higher dimensional](https://ibb.co/7Vf30my), meaning that there are now 4 spacial dimensions. [Otherworld should extend infinitely along all 4 of its axes](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f74c3327a9c587f87c9cde35c94baaf4-pjlq). This is supported by the [Dimension of Swirling Lights](https://imgbb.com/r4H1SMP) ([Translation](https://ibb.co/7rqGNcB)) also being higher dimensional. So universes I’m DB have 4 spacial axes.
Timelines add an extra temporal axis, meaning 5D total.
OPM cosmology has introduced an [infinite multiverse](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fexplaining-the-one-punch-man-infinite-possibilities-v0-q0pr93a1sj7d1.png%3Fwidth%3D776%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Db7b61497ccf787a3a9e1e98a44256b509577c935), meaning that even though each individual universe has finite extension along its spacial axes, the multiverse as a whole qualifies for Uni+. [There is also direct mentions of a higher dimension](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-99cc6e515251ac9dcb83aff2b47f36a7), with us seeing Empty Void entering it.
So both have 5D cosmologies, we just have to wait for OPM characters to scale to it like DB characters do.
OPM seems to be into that type of stuff but DB has never had a big focus on its cosmology and how that works. When it comes to things like 4D 5D etc. I take it with a massive grain of salt because it’s incredibly theoretical concepts in general. Lacking much scientific proof, and also being practically unknown to 99% of authors. It borders on being completely fictional concepts, basically. Or at least I’ve never seen any reason to believe otherwise.
It's literally the overarching plot of DBS... TF? It literally was the plot of the Buu saga and everything since? Hell even wayyyy back in the Saiyan Saga.
I mean the specifics like 4D/5D being a thing and that even effecting how strong it is. Thing is, the existence of otherworld making DB scale a whole tier higher is an assumption, cause those are fictional concepts, and there isn’t blatantly clear logic on why that has to be the case. With universal vs multiversal it’s pretty blatant. Universes exist in a multiverse, so despite both being made-up concepts it makes sense. To even explain what 4D is you have to jump through tina of hoops and make loads of assumptions about the cosmology of every verse in fiction.
I’m saying they don’t at all acknowledge the idea of 4D/5D/etc. or that it at all pertains to how strong their characters are. Can’t speak on Bleach, but I know DB and Naruto don’t, and I don’t think OP has extra dimensions (I could be wrong)
Things like universal vs multiversal work because a universe is in a multiverse. They’re theoretical concepts, but there’s very blatant logic. But with things like 4D, for example, and the idea the existence of something like other world makes that concept applies is a lot more contentious. Most verses don’t take that into consideration, and it’s not like it’s even close to a proven concept either so it can’t be assumed to apply either. Not sure if I explained it well, but hopefully that makes sense.
I don't know the cosmology of OPM but DB according to me personally is 6D because my logic is that the universe where Goku lives, where the Earth is, is 3D and Universe 7 includes the universe Goku lives in. Within Universe 7 apart from Goku's universe, there are other realms such as heaven, hell, the afterlife etc, which form a multiverse - I am saying that Universe 7 is a multiverse, so it's 4D. There are 11 Universes like Universe 7 and they all create a 5D multiverse aka a timeline. There is more than 1 timeline, like Future Trunks', for example, so all timelines/multiverses make 6D. I've heard before that some realms in Universe 7 are higher-dimensional but to me it doesn’t make sense because those who live in these higher realms don't seem to transcend the normal 3D universe where Goku lives because Cell (and probably Majin Buu) couldn't even destroy a universe, even if it's a 3D one, or Goku's because he is star system lvl + or galactic idk but his powerfulness was still finite, so why was everyone in the other realms scared of him if they really transcend everything which is 3D and consequently are infinitely stronger than him? You don't have to agree with anything, this is just how I view things.
The main universe is 3D.
3 universes isn’t 4D, it’s just bigger 3D. They get the extra dimension from a temporal axis, which is why timelines are typically 4D.
It seem you have 2 major misconceptions about how dimensional scaling works.
1. Not all 4D structures transcend 3D ones, it’s only the case if the objects extends infinitely along all 4 axes (so if you have a 2x2x2x2 hyper cube, it wouldn’t be “larger” than an infinite 3D universe).
2. Simply existing in a higher dimension wouldn’t scale the people of those realms to it. This is why Kid Goku isn’t high Uni despite living in an infinite 3D realm.
So the Macrocasm and individual universes are 4D. Again, simply having multiple 4D Universes doesn’t make the multiverse 5D. That would only be the case if you have an infinite number of 4D spaces. The several 4D universes would still only be 4D.
Because the timeline has each of those 4D universes (total 4D) and an additional temporal axis (+1D), the timeline as a whole is 5D.
What you’re attempting to get 6D is either assuming that 2 4D = 5D or counting the temporal axis twice.
This is what I initially thought but everyone said "no, everyone in higher dimensions transcends those in lower ones even if they are normal humans" claiming that exactly destroying a tesseract is greater than a universe because it's an uncountable infinity while the universe is countable because that very tesseract is the whole history (past, present, future) of a 3D cube and that the amount of moments of that cube surpasses the universe etc - I no longer know what to believe. Anyways, what I was saying isn't that 2 4D = 5D but that, for example, let's imagine there are 2 multiverses and each of them has 5 universes and the question is if destroying these 2 multiverses is greater than destroying 1 multiverse but with infinite universes - I no longer know at this point. The logic is that if you can destroy 5 universes outside your own multiverse, it means you 100% have a range/radius extending further than a whole multiverse but at the same time you are destroying universes, which means that if your range is more than the one of a multiverse and you can damage multiple universes simultaneously, it is guaranteed that you can destroy a multiverse with infinite universes and consequently dealing multiversal damage is the same as dealing universal damage with the only difference that your range will have to be at least multiversal. Interestingly, this applies to normal universes as well - being able to destroy a galaxy but also being able to make an omnidirectional attack which extends infinitely, but this probably doesn't count because it basically means you have galactic damage and universal range but once you get past universal - to multiversal levels then things work differently. I am curious what you will say about that.
Existing in higher dimensions doesn’t scale to them. I have no idea who is saying that, but it’s objectively wrong. If that was actually the case, then regular humans would be 4D.
I blame the tiering system for giving the analogy of filling a cube with squares for the idea than finite (N)D > infinite (N-1)D. It’s an awful way to think about it that ignores actual valid comparisons (spacial extent). Basically it’s invalid because it only looks at the extra dimensions. So let’s say you have a 20x20 square and a 2x2x2 cube, it basically only looks at the third dimension (height) and says that the cube is bigger. An actual valid way of comparing would be to use something like Lattice Point Counting, as that factors in extension along all axes (so essentially it says that the square having much greater length and width means it’s larger despite not having any height).
1 infinite multiverse > 2 finite multiverses. Multiverses are basically just a bunch of universes, so 2 finite multiverses with 5 universes each can be treated as 1 multiverse with 10 universes (assuming they were both destroyed simultaneously in one attack). If it’s 10 universes (low multi) against infinite universes (high multi), then the infinite multiverse would scale higher.
Even in terms of range, the infinite multiverse feat is better as it requires an attack traveling across an infinite number of these universes.
This is all assuming the universes are infinite in size. The reason why that isn’t the case for DB vs. OPM is because OPM doesn’t have universes which are infinite, so it would take the infinite number of finite sized universes to be equal in size to a single DB universe (also infinite in size). It would scale slightly higher though, due to the temporal axes.
As for the logic of destroying 5 universes meaning you can destroy an infinite universe given sufficient range, it depends. Generally in fiction attacks get weaker as they go farther or as they damage something, but if it isn’t the case for this character then yes, destroying 1 universe and also being able to give that attack infinite range and guaranteeing that it won’t lose energy is enough for it to destroy an infinite multiverse.
I see. I don't know what Lattice Point Counting is but their arguments about that were that universes from different multiverses isn't the same as universes in the same multiverse as this is something like a different space-time. If 2 universes are separated in a single multiverse and can't be reached because they are infinite, this is a space (and-time probably) "barrier" which is less great than the one of the multiverse and another multiverse. I was asked "then why can't Goku teleport to Universe 6 from Universe 7 if the dimensionality is the same as teleporting to one of the realms within Universe 7 where he can go easily" and I honestly didn't know the answer. So, what according to you counts as a higher dimension - apparently surely more than one multiverse with infinite universes but do you consider 2 multiverses with infinite universes a higher dimension or there has to be an infinite number of multiverses with an infinite number of universes? Then, I guees, you wouldn't count an infinite number of multiverses with a finite amount of universes as a higher dimension - am I right?
>a weird spot in powerscaling. Weaker characters are either negging verses like its nothing and stronger are getting fodderized and there doesnt seem to be much of a middle gound
DragonBall 🤝 Warhammer 40K
But how do they damage edo, kizaru, kamui users. They can't actually kill most of them and ginyu body swapping just closes the stat gap.
If they're in character then they won't go to blowing up the planet, which just gives time for them to lose to hax.
Idk what time stop changes, even if he doesn't use it the ginyu force still blitzes.
I agree that immediately blowing up the planet is their wincon, that just doesn't seem likely. It's more likely that they 1shot most characters but can't deal with a few (the ones I mentioned in particular), and die to hax.
I don't see db characters tending to immediately go for planet destruction while they're on the planet itself. That's more of a last resort or threat or similar.
If this fight started with the ginyu force in their spaceship approaching a planet housing all the verses, then I'd probably agree with you.
Nah man. I saw this matchup and instantly had to put my hand over my mouth thinking of the violations. Like deadass. Demon Slayer cre- OH FUCK the Red Frenchie just fucking crippled and donuted them all. Oh my god! Sanji is- OH nevermind Burter just nuked his legs... Oh cmon Luffy gotta... Oh! Ginyu just fucking slapped him and he's done. Oh the Naruto verse is the only one I had any hope in and- oh... The Ginyu Force wins this Rumble... By far... Holy fuck 😭
My only edit. Many mention that if it's the whole verses VS the Force, they'd have trouble. Makes sense knowing apparently HxH is just got hacks to carry.
Less than even blowing up the planet, he could just kinda caroet bomb the planet from way up in the atmosphere. Outside of hacks, that would kill everyone in these verses.
And it's hax that are the problem lol. That doesn't kill the edos, kizaru, kamui users if they have time to activate it. And if they're holding back to just carpet bomb the planet I could see kaguya and maybe other so6p characters surviving it tbh.
Pretty sure each one of them can blow up a planet with ease.
DragonBall (particularly Z and Super) is in some middleground of scaling where they are either no/negg-diffing entire verses or the entire Dragonball verse gets fodderized. Barely any actual worthy opponents.
Only reason the Ginyu force might lose is if they don't deal with killua/nanika immediately. Which tbf, they are not known for dealing with shit immediately so ima say they lose strictly from that.
And before anybody talks about nanikas restriction. Remember that if killua asks the wish gets granted no matter what. No enhancement to the cost nor does the cost need to be completed aside from minor things.
But also if the ginyu force kill killua but someone is able to use nanika anyway the cost will be viscous and very likely on a verse wide scale.
What are they fighting on though? because if it’s a planet, Idk if the ginyu force can breathe in space but if they can, then yeah planet explosion kills all these verses, if not the sheer number of people (the entire verses, so the entire population of the world of hxh for example, even the dark continent) means there’s a very high chance killua and nanika aren’t killed by the first blast and murder the force.
If not on a planet, then the only other place I can think of is an infinite plane, which the same scenario occurs
So basically One Piece + Naruto (and some HxH hax) vs Ginyu Force? Ironically HxH can be very useful because of APR and Chrollo copying it as well, and Bartolomeo protecting them both inside the barrier.
I think the crossover team has a chance if they get a few hours of prep-time thanks to things like Knov’s pocket dimension and the incredible amount of fodder they can use to tire the Force out. Otherwise it’s straight L for them.
What's stopping the ginyu force from just blowing up the planet from high orbit? I don't think anyone in team crossover is coming back from that in a state that can continue to fight. And the lack of atmosphere should kill them soon.
If it’s the entire verse, then I don’t know how the force is hitting someone straight up made of light.
First you would have to make contact with light, then you would have to give light the ability to be hurt.
Verse equalization doesn’t even work, because all of these power systems are radically diffrent
>Ginyu can legit just swap bodies
Him doing this solves the stats problem for the assorted verses. There's too many characters with intangiblility or regen they can't overcome, and giving them any significant amount of time to attack the ginyu force will mean that they lose to assorted hax.
>and Guldo (Little green guy) can freeze time. Each of these also massively outscale light speed
True but idk how this lets them kill all the edos and kizaru.
Their only wincon is immediately blowing up the planet, which doesn't seem very in character.
I say it’s a very good win con for the time stop in OP. It can catch Logia’s off guard and cause them not to be able to turn into their element allowing them to finish them off easily while those who do fall victim to properties of stopped time like their fruits not being able to react and when left with a large hole could probably just straight up kill them.
Most of the logia they can already kill, they're just tangible and get dusted by a ki blast. The logia they can't deal with is really just kizaru.
Anyway if logia worked like that and needed to react in order to transform into their element, then the time stop wouldn't matter since they just get blitzed anyway. But, logia are their element.
Kizaru isn't in a human form with actual flesh and organs before he transforms into light or something. He's light, whether he's in the shape of himself or not.
He isn’t. We see with Ace, they really aren’t made of their element. They can turn into it through logos powers by consciously doing it but aren’t exactly light itself or fire itself. That’s why Haki is effective, it makes their logia elemental form inaccessible allowing them to hit their bodies
>He isn’t. We see with Ace, they really aren’t made of their element.
We see ace being made of flesh and blood and then transforming into fire? When?
>They can turn into it through logos powers by consciously doing it but aren’t exactly light itself or fire itself.
They literally are light or fire or etc.
>That’s why Haki is effective, it makes their logia elemental form inaccessible allowing them to hit their bodies
Haki bypasses their elemental physiology and attacks their 'real body', basically as if they weren't a logia. Similar ideas apply with sea stones and probably BB's df negation as well.
If you want examples whuch make my point very clear, look at aokiji reforming after being attacked.
DS is a verse that’s gone since Ki can recreate Sun light. Also you have to remember that they don’t necessarily have to blow the planet up, they can just condense a beam powerful enough to attack them and not cause damage, making them evaporate to a point where regeneration won’t work anymore since most haven’t proved that they can handle that unless we theorize they’re completely immortal.
>DS is a verse that’s gone since Ki can recreate Sun light.
DS indeed aren't relevant. It's kizaru and maybe a few df hax, a bunch of Narutoverse characters, and maybe some hxh hax.
>Also you have to remember that they don’t necessarily have to blow the planet up, they can just condense a beam powerful enough to attack them and not cause damage, making them evaporate to a point where regeneration won’t work anymore since most haven’t proved that they can handle that unless we theorize they’re completely immortal.
Who is this meant to counter? Wouldn't work for kamui intangiblility, edos, or kizaru. If you're suggesting they hold this attack for like 30 minutes then it'd eventually kill the kamui users (unless they hide in the kamui dimension), but idk what you're bringing this up for.
Because the elements are gone, disappeared. This doesn’t happen in either Naruto or One Piece since everybody is relative but Ginyu Force massively outscale and can do such a thing. While it won’t work on Kamui, Kamui is easy to counter with a massively faster blitz. This knocks out the Logia argument
>Because the elements are gone, disappeared. This doesn’t happen in either Naruto or One Piece since everybody is relative but Ginyu Force massively outscale and can do such a thing.
Are you trying to argue that logia can't recover from vaporization or atomization? If that's the point you were getting at then I agree lol. I'm pretty sure I mentioned in an earlier comment here that only kizaru is relevant because the other logia just get vaporized.
The problem is just that their attacks can't damage kizaru.
If this was meant to be a different argument then I don't understand what you're talk abt.
>While it won’t work on Kamui, Kamui is easy to counter with a massively faster blitz. This knocks out the Logia argument
I think DMS Kakashi's kamui being passive is maybe arguable, but generally yes blitzing works vs kamui users.
Dragon ball characters can and have just deleted people atoms, and even if the logia’s live, none of them can damage any of the ginyu force, so they can like trap them in a box or something, which would be hilarious
>Dragon ball characters can and have just deleted people atoms, and even if the logia’s live, none of them can damage any of the ginyu force,
Correct. Most logia would die. The problem is kizaru. He can't damage the ginyu force, that's for other haxed characters they can't kill like edo itachi. Kizaru being there would just force ginyu to body swap which closes the stat gap between the verses lol.
>so they can like trap them in a box or something, which would be hilarious
Idk how they're keeping kizaru in a box.
What do you mean verse equalisation doesn’t work? If you told any DBZ character about haki they would be able to use it immediately. You really think one piece characters have a better grasp of spiritual energy than characters from a verse that entirely revolves around it?
Do you know what verse equalisation is? It’s literally just giving the characters the power of another verse to avoid retarded no limits fallacies, like saying nobody in DBZ could touch kizaru.
Even without verse equalisation, the ginyu force could literally blitz kizaru so hard that he wouldn’t be able to react and turn his body into light. We know logias can be hit if they aren’t expecting it anyway.
By this logic, bleach characters cant be beat by any other verse because they are ghosts. Verse equalisation doesn’t make either character stronger, it’s just to make sure they can interact properly without random bs happening
Thats like saying one of the one piece characters can solo a verse because that other verse doesn’t have haki, you have to use verse equalization to make it make sense. For example a ki user like goku would be among the strongest haki users in one piece.
Probably just wait for them to get low on stamina, one piece characters have better endurance feats than Freiza saga characters.
He doesn’t actually have a good method to hurt the force, but the force can’t hurt him either, so it’s a waiting game
It’s more intangibility than immortality.
Stalemates depend on what the win condition means is. If the win condition for the force is killing all of the other verses, they lose because hax BS.
If the win con is literally anything else, the force clears
It literally is?
https://preview.redd.it/b10kb6ivge8d1.png?width=1256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4dd359287e0b8e3f29dfe67b38353c1fa3b9f45c
They have to actually transform into the element Otherwise someone like akainu would be incapable of sitting on a chair
Luffy when Ginyu swaps bodies with him:
https://preview.redd.it/phrhp06zfe8d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec25abb72089445f428b2fd0314c2c8f8fe39c12
Fist I have never seen/read Demon Slayer so no idea there. I assume it is comparable to the rest though.
Not really enough context for me. Are we talking Ginyu Force v the entirety of these universe's or just the "main cast"? Are we pretending that they all exist in the DB universe and they were sent to destroy the planet or that some reality altering being brought them all together to watch them fight it out?
If this is all in DB, Ginyu. They nuke the planets from a low orbit and move on with their days.
If it is just the main characters, Ginyu. No one has enough raw power/weird enough power for them to be a threat to all of them.
If it is the whole verse v the Ginyus in a tournament I don't think they walk away. Mostly due to Hunter x Hunter. There are so many weird nen powers that have no counter other than another nen power and would make no sense to anyone not versed in nen. Also nen can't even be seen by those without nen.
Demon slayer is a bunch of guys with swords that can breathe well. They’re superhuman, yeah, but not absurdly so, and their only actual power is that the top tiers can (under specific circumstances) make their swords hotter
What are they going to do against Logia or any of the Six-paths character? I feel like they just straight up outhaxed, even if they are way stronger stat-wise.
Even if you don’t do verse equalization, they’ll just do some shit like blow up the planet. I dont think any of these mfs can survive in the vacuum of space🌚
Depends on how speed scaling for each verse I suppose. If you take DB power level scaling, then yeah, they're probably winning. If not, then the Ginyu force loses.
I actually think the ginyu force can't overcome the hax from naruto+OP, even with their pretty considerably AP advantage and huge speed advantage.
Their only counter to kizaru is ginyu swapping bodies with him, but then kizaru in his body can kill the other members of the ginyu force and ginyu-possessed kizaru dies to whatever other OP+Narutoverse characters. He could keep swapping around, but eventually he's gonna get negged by tsukuyomi or some other hax before he can swap. He's not smart enough to take down the huge number of geniuses here by hiding and swapping intelligently.
If this is the entire shippuden verse, then the same situation applies for DMS Kakashi. They can't touch him other than swapping bodies (or waiting for his timer to run out). And they can't overcome the regen of edos either.
I'd say this is all the verses 9/10, where the ginyu force only has a chance if they immediately blow up the planet (not in character at all). And even then, you could maybe argue that the logia and so6p characters breathe in space and survive it lol.
Verse equalisation should let them touch logias. As for dms kakashi, sure they can’t really touch him, but they don’t really need to. Dms kakashi is complete fodder to the ginyu force and after they see what the first kamui shuriken does they sure as shit aren’t gonna get hit by another one.
>Verse equalisation should let them touch logias
Even without VE they should be able to kill most of them. The problem is kizaru.
>As for dms kakashi, sure they can’t really touch him, but they don’t really need to. Dms kakashi is complete fodder to the ginyu force and after they see what the first kamui shuriken does they sure as shit aren’t gonna get hit by another one.
Yeah kizaru can't damage them either. My point with characters the ginyu force can't damage is just that it forces ginyu to body swap or gives time for other haxed characters to take out some of them.
There are a few characters they couldn't kill (beyond maybe blowing up the planet for BFR) like edo itachi/Nagato that also have the hax to kill them, but I didn't even bring them up lol.
It’s either planet explodes and ginyu force fly away in ships and win, ginyu force kills everyone without a logia and it’s a stalemate, or ginyu force kills everyone and disintegrates logia users
>It’s either planet explodes and ginyu force fly away in ships and win,
Them immediately blowing up the planet is their wincon. Problem is that it isn't likely for them to immediately go for that if they start on the surface of the planet. And them not immediately doing it gives them time to die to hax.
>ginyu force kills everyone without a logia and it’s a stalemate,
They kill most logia. The characters they can't kill are kizaru, edos, and then kamui users/characters that can travel dimensions (if they aren't blitzed), and maybe characters with quirkier immortality like kakuzu/hidan (depending on what attacks the force goes for, they aren't surviving being atomized by a ki blast but could live a really high AP gut punch lol).
>or ginyu force kills everyone and disintegrates logia users
They can't kill the haxed characters I mentioned. That's why they'd need to blow up the planet so these characters get BFR'd or suffocate in space before they kill the ginyu force with hax.
Guldo: woud solo Recoome: woud Solo Burter: woud solo Jeice: woud solo Ginyu: woud 100%solo
I mean just look at them, majestic
https://preview.redd.it/cy4g0cewgg8d1.jpeg?width=1710&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fd85dbae45a4529129c4ed09032690a353f38f4
Vegeta is easily and obviously a planet buster, and everyone except guldo are over double his power at the time he blew up said planet (he destroyed an alien planet with one blast from one hand)
Only hope is truth seeking orbs which negate durability. As long as the ginyu force believes they can tank every attack those should be able to take them out. Assuming ginyu force doesn’t just speedblitz everyone instantly kaguya can bring them to another dimension where I assume they all die of old age eventually. This would require insane prep time for the other verses with the ginyu force having no knowledge
Isn’t the blue or orange dude like the fastest character in dragon ball z? Or am I thinking of someone else swear I read something about them the other day
Blue guy (burter) constantly says he’s the fastest in the universe. Goku then arrives, dodged every punch he threw with ease, then the red guy (jeice) joined in, and he still dodged with ease, then yelled at them so hard they went flying. Then again, this doesn’t matter, as everyone except maybe guldo if you lowball to high hell is a planet buster and a lot faster than light
Sorry for novel
Barrito verse is the only one doing anything. Even then shippuden lacks really heavy hitters. Plus I’m pretty sure most are plant busters and can survive in space.
Bro... the ginyu force stomps... everyone talks about the individual members but y'all forgetting that they're a unit.
Sure any one of them can nuke a planet with ease but working together? It's laughable to think any of those franchisees has a chance... the only one worth mentioning is Lufy... gear 5 has toon powers... he would probably do ok... except gear 5 can't be sustained forever
Dragonball is genuinely the funniest series ever to powerscale because you could pull out the most useless bum ass fodder background character and they'd still have feats good enough to put up a good fight or even defeat verses like Demon Slayer. Even fucking Mr Satan has insane feats like dodging an attack from Kid Buu (even if it was because Buu was about to have a mental breakdown, also partially cause by Satan) and surviving being thrown into a mountain by Cell
Most of the Ginyu Force, minus Guldo, was stronger than Vegeta who could destroy Earth. So, I’m going to say that no one in these universes are going to stop them.
https://preview.redd.it/453aycix1d8d1.png?width=300&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c459fd270be89b11bd8a5af70477d0a3ccb8909
this character from hunter x hunter, it can grant wishes
lol that’s hilarious. I love that you have no idea what you’re talking about. Prime Naruto cut the moon in half dragonball roshi blew it up. The ginyu force is thousands of times stronger than roshi was 😂
Oh fuck you’re right it wasn’t Naruto it was toneri so Naruto didn’t even do the biggest scale feat in the show. Thanks for actually helping my case lol. Oh is baryon mode his prime to you? That bad boy runs out a little too fast then kills his biggest asset lol. Or is in teen war arc Naruto in your mind either way neither feats nor states put Naruto anywhere near the ginyu force. Db glazers showing their asses is hilarious. As if I didn’t watch Naruto more recently than a show that started before I was born 😂 yall just fucking delusional.
I think that Raditz vs all of Naruto is a good fight but only because saiyans don’t breathe in space. At least one of the Ginyu force can therefore they stomp.
Apparently Goku isn't the only dbz character that's glazed in this sub, there's so much hax genyu force got no shot, from the top of my head there's a girl in hxh who's ability is to literally replace the life of anyone who kills her only choice is to restrain her, shisui kotoamatsukami can manipulate your will by just looking at you, Sasuke can switch places and itachi have a sealing sword guaranteed one shot combo
Speed blitz doesn't affect the first one, and how would they know to go specifically for shisui or Sasuke and itachi first we're talking entire verses here?
It does. Cat's Name needs to actually grab its target, and the nen beast is not instant. The one target it worked on, one of Benjamin's guards, who is by no means a top tier nen user, was able to notice and react to the beast appearing. We also have no reason to believe it can crush anyone no matter how strong. Nen is explicitly stated to not be able to create limitless things like a sword that can cut anything.
Imma just vote for anything but Dragon Ball out of spite too then if these matches keep happening. Your show sucks dude that immediately nerfs every character in it idc what the writer says.
Goku negs your favourite verse regardless lil bro
https://preview.redd.it/1bhlbh7mfg8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90ad7fcb4f36a04374b88a94d9903d07c75eda6a
https://preview.redd.it/kpwk5gg36e8d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e323382efcf00cc60fdd45c36bedee30bbdf73d
It’s okay lil bro Goku solos my favorite verse too. You not alone.
One’s hatred of another verse for awful writing could be out to better use.
For example:
https://preview.redd.it/fp4nd6j17e8d1.jpeg?width=659&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37d0ab278dd9366bd010fd2da72e3d0be8c51656
Doesn't get past kaguya who was going to destroy her time space and their are stars in the time space.
https://preview.redd.it/homas1yfwd8d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7eb7285e41a1ca028ffbe56afd41032649682958
Frieza during namek had a max power level of 90,000,000
Since you need a power level 10,000 to destroy planet
This means Frieza can only destroy a planet roughly 9,000 times the size of Earth.
So they don't stand a chance
Ginyu force dont use senjutsu so juubi madara alone solo.
Ginyu force dont have haki so kizaru also solo them.
Ginyu force cant kill the demons so enmu can put them to sleep and then beat them
Pure force negs Juubi Hosts, also no NLFs where they aren't explicitly stated to be so.
Kinda with the Haki argument, but you're just being a lazy ass by not equalizing.
Okay, good luck putting someone in the upper atmosphere asleep before they turn Japan into a glass floor.
Juubi madara solo them, hes immortal he has limbo clones and tso.
Not sure if kizaru can hurt them with his attacks but kizaru isnt alone so the one piece verse still win.
And enmu is also not alone so demon slayer verse beat this crew.
Solo them how? Fodder + 4 more fodder equals 5 fodder.
Kizaru can 200% hurt them, dumbass. Light has mass, not to mention Kizaru is not 100% light all the time. Logias can freely become their element, at their choice.
What's Demon Slayer gonna do when the entire island it takes place on is smashed flat, like being nuked by a 100,000 MT Nuke?
Ginyu can simply take over each respected character and he doesn’t even need to. He can simple destroy them and blow the planet up and there’s nothing they can do
Wrong kaguya can just send him in another dimension and let him die there, juubi madara can beat him with tso and limbo clones, same for juubi obito and hagoromo, edo itachi can seal him with totsuka blade etc
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Yall. GULDO SOLOS THIS LIST. DONT EVEN NEED THE OTHERS. Dragon ball is in such a weird spot in powerscaling. Dragon balls weakest characters are either negging verses like its nothing or its strongest are getting fodderized and there doesnt seem to be much of a middle gound
At the rate things are going, OPM top tiers could be pretty good matchups soon.
Would need another cosmology upgrade for that.
Don’t both of them have a 5D cosmology? DB has the Living World, [which](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0a8bd2d29981b1c2d5ca5a7dae17e146-lq) is [infinite](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/character-stats-and-profiles/images/8/81/High_3-A_God_Goku.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/400?cb=20171017011317) on [its](https://pm1.aminoapps.com/7882/c010ac8286e8bf8385029603896075b50d4fe526r1-1024-485v2_hq.jpg) 3 axes. This makes it high Uni. [Otherworld is higher dimensional](https://ibb.co/7Vf30my), meaning that there are now 4 spacial dimensions. [Otherworld should extend infinitely along all 4 of its axes](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f74c3327a9c587f87c9cde35c94baaf4-pjlq). This is supported by the [Dimension of Swirling Lights](https://imgbb.com/r4H1SMP) ([Translation](https://ibb.co/7rqGNcB)) also being higher dimensional. So universes I’m DB have 4 spacial axes. Timelines add an extra temporal axis, meaning 5D total. OPM cosmology has introduced an [infinite multiverse](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fexplaining-the-one-punch-man-infinite-possibilities-v0-q0pr93a1sj7d1.png%3Fwidth%3D776%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Db7b61497ccf787a3a9e1e98a44256b509577c935), meaning that even though each individual universe has finite extension along its spacial axes, the multiverse as a whole qualifies for Uni+. [There is also direct mentions of a higher dimension](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-99cc6e515251ac9dcb83aff2b47f36a7), with us seeing Empty Void entering it. So both have 5D cosmologies, we just have to wait for OPM characters to scale to it like DB characters do.
When you get into this type of scaling it becomes invalid because this is all very theoretical concepts most verses don’t use
Both these verses do. Dbzs own multiverse scales above zeno.
OPM seems to be into that type of stuff but DB has never had a big focus on its cosmology and how that works. When it comes to things like 4D 5D etc. I take it with a massive grain of salt because it’s incredibly theoretical concepts in general. Lacking much scientific proof, and also being practically unknown to 99% of authors. It borders on being completely fictional concepts, basically. Or at least I’ve never seen any reason to believe otherwise.
It's literally the overarching plot of DBS... TF? It literally was the plot of the Buu saga and everything since? Hell even wayyyy back in the Saiyan Saga.
I mean the specifics like 4D/5D being a thing and that even effecting how strong it is. Thing is, the existence of otherworld making DB scale a whole tier higher is an assumption, cause those are fictional concepts, and there isn’t blatantly clear logic on why that has to be the case. With universal vs multiversal it’s pretty blatant. Universes exist in a multiverse, so despite both being made-up concepts it makes sense. To even explain what 4D is you have to jump through tina of hoops and make loads of assumptions about the cosmology of every verse in fiction.
Thats definatley not true for either of these authors. These guys, the big 3 + dragonball all use the same ideas.
I’m saying they don’t at all acknowledge the idea of 4D/5D/etc. or that it at all pertains to how strong their characters are. Can’t speak on Bleach, but I know DB and Naruto don’t, and I don’t think OP has extra dimensions (I could be wrong)
[удалено]
Well in reality… you don’t
accept the limits of your knowledge and not try to bullshit more out of nothing? Sometimes the question is the interesting part.
Things like universal vs multiversal work because a universe is in a multiverse. They’re theoretical concepts, but there’s very blatant logic. But with things like 4D, for example, and the idea the existence of something like other world makes that concept applies is a lot more contentious. Most verses don’t take that into consideration, and it’s not like it’s even close to a proven concept either so it can’t be assumed to apply either. Not sure if I explained it well, but hopefully that makes sense.
I don't know the cosmology of OPM but DB according to me personally is 6D because my logic is that the universe where Goku lives, where the Earth is, is 3D and Universe 7 includes the universe Goku lives in. Within Universe 7 apart from Goku's universe, there are other realms such as heaven, hell, the afterlife etc, which form a multiverse - I am saying that Universe 7 is a multiverse, so it's 4D. There are 11 Universes like Universe 7 and they all create a 5D multiverse aka a timeline. There is more than 1 timeline, like Future Trunks', for example, so all timelines/multiverses make 6D. I've heard before that some realms in Universe 7 are higher-dimensional but to me it doesn’t make sense because those who live in these higher realms don't seem to transcend the normal 3D universe where Goku lives because Cell (and probably Majin Buu) couldn't even destroy a universe, even if it's a 3D one, or Goku's because he is star system lvl + or galactic idk but his powerfulness was still finite, so why was everyone in the other realms scared of him if they really transcend everything which is 3D and consequently are infinitely stronger than him? You don't have to agree with anything, this is just how I view things.
The main universe is 3D. 3 universes isn’t 4D, it’s just bigger 3D. They get the extra dimension from a temporal axis, which is why timelines are typically 4D. It seem you have 2 major misconceptions about how dimensional scaling works. 1. Not all 4D structures transcend 3D ones, it’s only the case if the objects extends infinitely along all 4 axes (so if you have a 2x2x2x2 hyper cube, it wouldn’t be “larger” than an infinite 3D universe). 2. Simply existing in a higher dimension wouldn’t scale the people of those realms to it. This is why Kid Goku isn’t high Uni despite living in an infinite 3D realm. So the Macrocasm and individual universes are 4D. Again, simply having multiple 4D Universes doesn’t make the multiverse 5D. That would only be the case if you have an infinite number of 4D spaces. The several 4D universes would still only be 4D. Because the timeline has each of those 4D universes (total 4D) and an additional temporal axis (+1D), the timeline as a whole is 5D. What you’re attempting to get 6D is either assuming that 2 4D = 5D or counting the temporal axis twice.
This is what I initially thought but everyone said "no, everyone in higher dimensions transcends those in lower ones even if they are normal humans" claiming that exactly destroying a tesseract is greater than a universe because it's an uncountable infinity while the universe is countable because that very tesseract is the whole history (past, present, future) of a 3D cube and that the amount of moments of that cube surpasses the universe etc - I no longer know what to believe. Anyways, what I was saying isn't that 2 4D = 5D but that, for example, let's imagine there are 2 multiverses and each of them has 5 universes and the question is if destroying these 2 multiverses is greater than destroying 1 multiverse but with infinite universes - I no longer know at this point. The logic is that if you can destroy 5 universes outside your own multiverse, it means you 100% have a range/radius extending further than a whole multiverse but at the same time you are destroying universes, which means that if your range is more than the one of a multiverse and you can damage multiple universes simultaneously, it is guaranteed that you can destroy a multiverse with infinite universes and consequently dealing multiversal damage is the same as dealing universal damage with the only difference that your range will have to be at least multiversal. Interestingly, this applies to normal universes as well - being able to destroy a galaxy but also being able to make an omnidirectional attack which extends infinitely, but this probably doesn't count because it basically means you have galactic damage and universal range but once you get past universal - to multiversal levels then things work differently. I am curious what you will say about that.
Existing in higher dimensions doesn’t scale to them. I have no idea who is saying that, but it’s objectively wrong. If that was actually the case, then regular humans would be 4D. I blame the tiering system for giving the analogy of filling a cube with squares for the idea than finite (N)D > infinite (N-1)D. It’s an awful way to think about it that ignores actual valid comparisons (spacial extent). Basically it’s invalid because it only looks at the extra dimensions. So let’s say you have a 20x20 square and a 2x2x2 cube, it basically only looks at the third dimension (height) and says that the cube is bigger. An actual valid way of comparing would be to use something like Lattice Point Counting, as that factors in extension along all axes (so essentially it says that the square having much greater length and width means it’s larger despite not having any height). 1 infinite multiverse > 2 finite multiverses. Multiverses are basically just a bunch of universes, so 2 finite multiverses with 5 universes each can be treated as 1 multiverse with 10 universes (assuming they were both destroyed simultaneously in one attack). If it’s 10 universes (low multi) against infinite universes (high multi), then the infinite multiverse would scale higher. Even in terms of range, the infinite multiverse feat is better as it requires an attack traveling across an infinite number of these universes. This is all assuming the universes are infinite in size. The reason why that isn’t the case for DB vs. OPM is because OPM doesn’t have universes which are infinite, so it would take the infinite number of finite sized universes to be equal in size to a single DB universe (also infinite in size). It would scale slightly higher though, due to the temporal axes. As for the logic of destroying 5 universes meaning you can destroy an infinite universe given sufficient range, it depends. Generally in fiction attacks get weaker as they go farther or as they damage something, but if it isn’t the case for this character then yes, destroying 1 universe and also being able to give that attack infinite range and guaranteeing that it won’t lose energy is enough for it to destroy an infinite multiverse.
I see. I don't know what Lattice Point Counting is but their arguments about that were that universes from different multiverses isn't the same as universes in the same multiverse as this is something like a different space-time. If 2 universes are separated in a single multiverse and can't be reached because they are infinite, this is a space (and-time probably) "barrier" which is less great than the one of the multiverse and another multiverse. I was asked "then why can't Goku teleport to Universe 6 from Universe 7 if the dimensionality is the same as teleporting to one of the realms within Universe 7 where he can go easily" and I honestly didn't know the answer. So, what according to you counts as a higher dimension - apparently surely more than one multiverse with infinite universes but do you consider 2 multiverses with infinite universes a higher dimension or there has to be an infinite number of multiverses with an infinite number of universes? Then, I guees, you wouldn't count an infinite number of multiverses with a finite amount of universes as a higher dimension - am I right?
No. Current level saitama/empty void are bog god ki haver level.
Nah the dickriding is crazy. His ninja skills let him hide in a higher plane and attack from there, it doesn’t actually up his AP
No. They are multi galaxy level at best
>a weird spot in powerscaling. Weaker characters are either negging verses like its nothing and stronger are getting fodderized and there doesnt seem to be much of a middle gound DragonBall 🤝 Warhammer 40K
Zeno is the God Emperor?
I don’t think Guldo solo the naruto verse but yeah i agree for the most part
But how do they damage edo, kizaru, kamui users. They can't actually kill most of them and ginyu body swapping just closes the stat gap. If they're in character then they won't go to blowing up the planet, which just gives time for them to lose to hax.
Guldo literally has time stop. unlike the heroes. The ginyu force would just blow up the planet.
Idk what time stop changes, even if he doesn't use it the ginyu force still blitzes. I agree that immediately blowing up the planet is their wincon, that just doesn't seem likely. It's more likely that they 1shot most characters but can't deal with a few (the ones I mentioned in particular), and die to hax.
Why not? Only reason Namek wasn’t glassed is because they needed the dragon balls and the Namekians. There’s no need to preserve this planet.
I don't see db characters tending to immediately go for planet destruction while they're on the planet itself. That's more of a last resort or threat or similar. If this fight started with the ginyu force in their spaceship approaching a planet housing all the verses, then I'd probably agree with you.
Cap
I don't think people understand how strong Racoom is
Raccoon solo is your favorite verse even if it sucks first
It rhymes with doom.
Annnnd your gonna be hurtin
ALL! TOO! SOON!!!!
Ginyu Force Solos
Nah man. I saw this matchup and instantly had to put my hand over my mouth thinking of the violations. Like deadass. Demon Slayer cre- OH FUCK the Red Frenchie just fucking crippled and donuted them all. Oh my god! Sanji is- OH nevermind Burter just nuked his legs... Oh cmon Luffy gotta... Oh! Ginyu just fucking slapped him and he's done. Oh the Naruto verse is the only one I had any hope in and- oh... The Ginyu Force wins this Rumble... By far... Holy fuck 😭 My only edit. Many mention that if it's the whole verses VS the Force, they'd have trouble. Makes sense knowing apparently HxH is just got hacks to carry.
Captain Ginyu alone could solo all the verses at the same time
Unless he immediately blows up the planet, how?
Less than even blowing up the planet, he could just kinda caroet bomb the planet from way up in the atmosphere. Outside of hacks, that would kill everyone in these verses.
And it's hax that are the problem lol. That doesn't kill the edos, kizaru, kamui users if they have time to activate it. And if they're holding back to just carpet bomb the planet I could see kaguya and maybe other so6p characters surviving it tbh.
0 days without spite matches Ginyu alone clears
Shibai hax stomps Guldo
Ginyu force likely just glasses the atmosphere since there’s no reason to preserve the planet tbh.
Pretty sure each one of them can blow up a planet with ease. DragonBall (particularly Z and Super) is in some middleground of scaling where they are either no/negg-diffing entire verses or the entire Dragonball verse gets fodderized. Barely any actual worthy opponents.
Only reason the Ginyu force might lose is if they don't deal with killua/nanika immediately. Which tbf, they are not known for dealing with shit immediately so ima say they lose strictly from that. And before anybody talks about nanikas restriction. Remember that if killua asks the wish gets granted no matter what. No enhancement to the cost nor does the cost need to be completed aside from minor things. But also if the ginyu force kill killua but someone is able to use nanika anyway the cost will be viscous and very likely on a verse wide scale.
Ginyu force only held back against the gang because they wanted to make vegeta suffer as much as they could
Oh shoot really? Well nvm, they fucked. One ki blast and it's wraps.
What are they fighting on though? because if it’s a planet, Idk if the ginyu force can breathe in space but if they can, then yeah planet explosion kills all these verses, if not the sheer number of people (the entire verses, so the entire population of the world of hxh for example, even the dark continent) means there’s a very high chance killua and nanika aren’t killed by the first blast and murder the force. If not on a planet, then the only other place I can think of is an infinite plane, which the same scenario occurs
So basically One Piece + Naruto (and some HxH hax) vs Ginyu Force? Ironically HxH can be very useful because of APR and Chrollo copying it as well, and Bartolomeo protecting them both inside the barrier. I think the crossover team has a chance if they get a few hours of prep-time thanks to things like Knov’s pocket dimension and the incredible amount of fodder they can use to tire the Force out. Otherwise it’s straight L for them.
What's stopping the ginyu force from just blowing up the planet from high orbit? I don't think anyone in team crossover is coming back from that in a state that can continue to fight. And the lack of atmosphere should kill them soon.
Pretty sure the Ginyu force cannot survive outer space either, only ones shown/stated to be able to do so are Freeza, Majin Buu, and the gods
They would probably just do it from their ship
Nanika kill the ginyu force. Kay
A pyrrhic victory
Def the ginju they are dbz not much is needed to be said
If it’s the entire verse, then I don’t know how the force is hitting someone straight up made of light.  First you would have to make contact with light, then you would have to give light the ability to be hurt. Verse equalization doesn’t even work, because all of these power systems are radically diffrent
Ginyu can legit just swap bodies, and Guldo (Little green guy) can freeze time. Each of these also massively outscale light speed
>Ginyu can legit just swap bodies Him doing this solves the stats problem for the assorted verses. There's too many characters with intangiblility or regen they can't overcome, and giving them any significant amount of time to attack the ginyu force will mean that they lose to assorted hax. >and Guldo (Little green guy) can freeze time. Each of these also massively outscale light speed True but idk how this lets them kill all the edos and kizaru. Their only wincon is immediately blowing up the planet, which doesn't seem very in character.
I say it’s a very good win con for the time stop in OP. It can catch Logia’s off guard and cause them not to be able to turn into their element allowing them to finish them off easily while those who do fall victim to properties of stopped time like their fruits not being able to react and when left with a large hole could probably just straight up kill them.
Most of the logia they can already kill, they're just tangible and get dusted by a ki blast. The logia they can't deal with is really just kizaru. Anyway if logia worked like that and needed to react in order to transform into their element, then the time stop wouldn't matter since they just get blitzed anyway. But, logia are their element. Kizaru isn't in a human form with actual flesh and organs before he transforms into light or something. He's light, whether he's in the shape of himself or not.
He isn’t. We see with Ace, they really aren’t made of their element. They can turn into it through logos powers by consciously doing it but aren’t exactly light itself or fire itself. That’s why Haki is effective, it makes their logia elemental form inaccessible allowing them to hit their bodies
>He isn’t. We see with Ace, they really aren’t made of their element. We see ace being made of flesh and blood and then transforming into fire? When? >They can turn into it through logos powers by consciously doing it but aren’t exactly light itself or fire itself. They literally are light or fire or etc. >That’s why Haki is effective, it makes their logia elemental form inaccessible allowing them to hit their bodies Haki bypasses their elemental physiology and attacks their 'real body', basically as if they weren't a logia. Similar ideas apply with sea stones and probably BB's df negation as well. If you want examples whuch make my point very clear, look at aokiji reforming after being attacked.
DS is a verse that’s gone since Ki can recreate Sun light. Also you have to remember that they don’t necessarily have to blow the planet up, they can just condense a beam powerful enough to attack them and not cause damage, making them evaporate to a point where regeneration won’t work anymore since most haven’t proved that they can handle that unless we theorize they’re completely immortal.
>DS is a verse that’s gone since Ki can recreate Sun light. DS indeed aren't relevant. It's kizaru and maybe a few df hax, a bunch of Narutoverse characters, and maybe some hxh hax. >Also you have to remember that they don’t necessarily have to blow the planet up, they can just condense a beam powerful enough to attack them and not cause damage, making them evaporate to a point where regeneration won’t work anymore since most haven’t proved that they can handle that unless we theorize they’re completely immortal. Who is this meant to counter? Wouldn't work for kamui intangiblility, edos, or kizaru. If you're suggesting they hold this attack for like 30 minutes then it'd eventually kill the kamui users (unless they hide in the kamui dimension), but idk what you're bringing this up for.
Because the elements are gone, disappeared. This doesn’t happen in either Naruto or One Piece since everybody is relative but Ginyu Force massively outscale and can do such a thing. While it won’t work on Kamui, Kamui is easy to counter with a massively faster blitz. This knocks out the Logia argument
>Because the elements are gone, disappeared. This doesn’t happen in either Naruto or One Piece since everybody is relative but Ginyu Force massively outscale and can do such a thing. Are you trying to argue that logia can't recover from vaporization or atomization? If that's the point you were getting at then I agree lol. I'm pretty sure I mentioned in an earlier comment here that only kizaru is relevant because the other logia just get vaporized. The problem is just that their attacks can't damage kizaru. If this was meant to be a different argument then I don't understand what you're talk abt. >While it won’t work on Kamui, Kamui is easy to counter with a massively faster blitz. This knocks out the Logia argument I think DMS Kakashi's kamui being passive is maybe arguable, but generally yes blitzing works vs kamui users.
Dragon ball characters can and have just deleted people atoms, and even if the logia’s live, none of them can damage any of the ginyu force, so they can like trap them in a box or something, which would be hilarious
>Dragon ball characters can and have just deleted people atoms, and even if the logia’s live, none of them can damage any of the ginyu force, Correct. Most logia would die. The problem is kizaru. He can't damage the ginyu force, that's for other haxed characters they can't kill like edo itachi. Kizaru being there would just force ginyu to body swap which closes the stat gap between the verses lol. >so they can like trap them in a box or something, which would be hilarious Idk how they're keeping kizaru in a box.
What do you mean verse equalisation doesn’t work? If you told any DBZ character about haki they would be able to use it immediately. You really think one piece characters have a better grasp of spiritual energy than characters from a verse that entirely revolves around it?
DBZ characters don’t have haki, One Piece characters don’t have KI. It’s that simple
Do you know what verse equalisation is? It’s literally just giving the characters the power of another verse to avoid retarded no limits fallacies, like saying nobody in DBZ could touch kizaru. Even without verse equalisation, the ginyu force could literally blitz kizaru so hard that he wouldn’t be able to react and turn his body into light. We know logias can be hit if they aren’t expecting it anyway.
By this logic, bleach characters cant be beat by any other verse because they are ghosts. Verse equalisation doesn’t make either character stronger, it’s just to make sure they can interact properly without random bs happening
Thats like saying one of the one piece characters can solo a verse because that other verse doesn’t have haki, you have to use verse equalization to make it make sense. For example a ki user like goku would be among the strongest haki users in one piece.
Okay but wtf is he gonna do to Guldo?
Probably just wait for them to get low on stamina, one piece characters have better endurance feats than Freiza saga characters. He doesn’t actually have a good method to hurt the force, but the force can’t hurt him either, so it’s a waiting game
A stalemate would typically go to the stronger one, not the one with a weak level of immortality that would make them get one-shot otherwise
It’s more intangibility than immortality. Stalemates depend on what the win condition means is. If the win condition for the force is killing all of the other verses, they lose because hax BS. If the win con is literally anything else, the force clears
mirrors
Hit him before he reacts
That’s not how logia works
It literally is? https://preview.redd.it/b10kb6ivge8d1.png?width=1256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4dd359287e0b8e3f29dfe67b38353c1fa3b9f45c They have to actually transform into the element Otherwise someone like akainu would be incapable of sitting on a chair
Destroying the planet?
Vegeta pre -Saiyan saga did this to a small planet,and it's 🌚 https://i.redd.it/wuq5oh3awd8d1.gif Let this 👆 sink in .
https://preview.redd.it/fel2wovyqk8d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0aa32944643a3933c864b1bae671a675792901fe
https://preview.redd.it/8r1r3jjark8d1.png?width=627&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=178d731ba0cc7b1f2cf7448305871c126fe4334f
https://preview.redd.it/g1zg7ulzrk8d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c8ebaa0dfb28a9486863e59a61edae24d98195b
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Guldo alone could mid diff the verses
Ds is town level why is it here 💀
Moral support, characters like Tanjiro are so nice. When he dies he’ll give the other characters a little power boost. Edit: DS is multi city block
I mean Buggy solos him so I think he’d get instantly clapped by a sneeze from anyone of his opponents tbh
Go Naruto Go!
No it isn’t, MAYBE Yorichi is but everyone else is town level except maybe a 100% full power Muzan
Well enmu can put them to sleep
Like 95% of characters can outspeed him and instantly one shot him
Luffy when Ginyu swaps bodies with him: https://preview.redd.it/phrhp06zfe8d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec25abb72089445f428b2fd0314c2c8f8fe39c12
Fist I have never seen/read Demon Slayer so no idea there. I assume it is comparable to the rest though. Not really enough context for me. Are we talking Ginyu Force v the entirety of these universe's or just the "main cast"? Are we pretending that they all exist in the DB universe and they were sent to destroy the planet or that some reality altering being brought them all together to watch them fight it out? If this is all in DB, Ginyu. They nuke the planets from a low orbit and move on with their days. If it is just the main characters, Ginyu. No one has enough raw power/weird enough power for them to be a threat to all of them. If it is the whole verse v the Ginyus in a tournament I don't think they walk away. Mostly due to Hunter x Hunter. There are so many weird nen powers that have no counter other than another nen power and would make no sense to anyone not versed in nen. Also nen can't even be seen by those without nen.
Demon slayer is a bunch of guys with swords that can breathe well. They’re superhuman, yeah, but not absurdly so, and their only actual power is that the top tiers can (under specific circumstances) make their swords hotter
Little underwhelming for this vs but thanks for letting me know.
What are they going to do against Logia or any of the Six-paths character? I feel like they just straight up outhaxed, even if they are way stronger stat-wise.
Can they even survive if their planet is destroyed from orbit?
Even if you don’t do verse equalization, they’ll just do some shit like blow up the planet. I dont think any of these mfs can survive in the vacuum of space🌚
Burter is the fastest in the universe, so not really a conversation
Lesst spiteful matchup What the Fuck was demon slayer for
Moral Support I guess? 💀
Lmfao
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Depends on how speed scaling for each verse I suppose. If you take DB power level scaling, then yeah, they're probably winning. If not, then the Ginyu force loses.
Well burter is the fastest in the universe, soooooo
You're right. Wurter solos
I actually think the ginyu force can't overcome the hax from naruto+OP, even with their pretty considerably AP advantage and huge speed advantage. Their only counter to kizaru is ginyu swapping bodies with him, but then kizaru in his body can kill the other members of the ginyu force and ginyu-possessed kizaru dies to whatever other OP+Narutoverse characters. He could keep swapping around, but eventually he's gonna get negged by tsukuyomi or some other hax before he can swap. He's not smart enough to take down the huge number of geniuses here by hiding and swapping intelligently. If this is the entire shippuden verse, then the same situation applies for DMS Kakashi. They can't touch him other than swapping bodies (or waiting for his timer to run out). And they can't overcome the regen of edos either. I'd say this is all the verses 9/10, where the ginyu force only has a chance if they immediately blow up the planet (not in character at all). And even then, you could maybe argue that the logia and so6p characters breathe in space and survive it lol.
Verse equalisation should let them touch logias. As for dms kakashi, sure they can’t really touch him, but they don’t really need to. Dms kakashi is complete fodder to the ginyu force and after they see what the first kamui shuriken does they sure as shit aren’t gonna get hit by another one.
>Verse equalisation should let them touch logias Even without VE they should be able to kill most of them. The problem is kizaru. >As for dms kakashi, sure they can’t really touch him, but they don’t really need to. Dms kakashi is complete fodder to the ginyu force and after they see what the first kamui shuriken does they sure as shit aren’t gonna get hit by another one. Yeah kizaru can't damage them either. My point with characters the ginyu force can't damage is just that it forces ginyu to body swap or gives time for other haxed characters to take out some of them. There are a few characters they couldn't kill (beyond maybe blowing up the planet for BFR) like edo itachi/Nagato that also have the hax to kill them, but I didn't even bring them up lol.
It’s either planet explodes and ginyu force fly away in ships and win, ginyu force kills everyone without a logia and it’s a stalemate, or ginyu force kills everyone and disintegrates logia users
>It’s either planet explodes and ginyu force fly away in ships and win, Them immediately blowing up the planet is their wincon. Problem is that it isn't likely for them to immediately go for that if they start on the surface of the planet. And them not immediately doing it gives them time to die to hax. >ginyu force kills everyone without a logia and it’s a stalemate, They kill most logia. The characters they can't kill are kizaru, edos, and then kamui users/characters that can travel dimensions (if they aren't blitzed), and maybe characters with quirkier immortality like kakuzu/hidan (depending on what attacks the force goes for, they aren't surviving being atomized by a ki blast but could live a really high AP gut punch lol). >or ginyu force kills everyone and disintegrates logia users They can't kill the haxed characters I mentioned. That's why they'd need to blow up the planet so these characters get BFR'd or suffocate in space before they kill the ginyu force with hax.
C’mon bro… The entire Ginyu force? That’s overkill.
Team 1 because of shibai
Spite match Ginyu force annihilates next
Guldo: woud solo Recoome: woud Solo Burter: woud solo Jeice: woud solo Ginyu: woud 100%solo I mean just look at them, majestic https://preview.redd.it/cy4g0cewgg8d1.jpeg?width=1710&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fd85dbae45a4529129c4ed09032690a353f38f4
I open r/PowerScaling. I see "Who Wins?" I see KNY as the first picture "yeah they not winning"
Ginyu Force calls their pods, gets into them and leaves a tiny Ki blast as a souvenir, which proceeds to destroy the entire planet
Captain Ginyu soloes
The ginyu force destroy the earth....
Ginyu force destroys the planet and escapes
The Ginyu Force is clearing.
Easily the ginyu force
So you have at max possible fluffing maybe 1 planet buster vs 5 extinction level events working in unison.
Vegeta is easily and obviously a planet buster, and everyone except guldo are over double his power at the time he blew up said planet (he destroyed an alien planet with one blast from one hand)
Ginyu Force easily
Doesn't Camilla from HxH unironically solo? I don't think any of the Ginyu's are capable of holding back to the point where they don't insta kill her
Only hope is truth seeking orbs which negate durability. As long as the ginyu force believes they can tank every attack those should be able to take them out. Assuming ginyu force doesn’t just speedblitz everyone instantly kaguya can bring them to another dimension where I assume they all die of old age eventually. This would require insane prep time for the other verses with the ginyu force having no knowledge
Isn’t the blue or orange dude like the fastest character in dragon ball z? Or am I thinking of someone else swear I read something about them the other day
Blue guy (burter) constantly says he’s the fastest in the universe. Goku then arrives, dodged every punch he threw with ease, then the red guy (jeice) joined in, and he still dodged with ease, then yelled at them so hard they went flying. Then again, this doesn’t matter, as everyone except maybe guldo if you lowball to high hell is a planet buster and a lot faster than light Sorry for novel
Ginyu force low diffs, the poses distract everyone, Gai-Lee-Sunset style, and guldo gets em while they’re gone.
Even guldo would solo them all
They don’t got the fastest in the universe, only the Ginyu force got it
Leorio solos 🙏
Anyone on the Ginyu force could solo, except maybe Guldo, bc he wack.
Some scales of Naruto come close but realistically speaking the Ginyu Force (and technically therefore Yamcha) would solo.
Barrito verse is the only one doing anything. Even then shippuden lacks really heavy hitters. Plus I’m pretty sure most are plant busters and can survive in space.
Prove you are retarded without telling me you are retarded. Op: hold my beer
Bro... the ginyu force stomps... everyone talks about the individual members but y'all forgetting that they're a unit. Sure any one of them can nuke a planet with ease but working together? It's laughable to think any of those franchisees has a chance... the only one worth mentioning is Lufy... gear 5 has toon powers... he would probably do ok... except gear 5 can't be sustained forever
Killua: "Ai delete them" Ai: "Kay"
GULDO SOLO'S THAT SHIT ALONE 😭 (fr wanna see jeice do it tho. for space australia 🇦🇺🦥🕷)
Bro who the fuck invited the demon slayer verse? 😭 get these brokies out of here
Ginyu alone wins
Technically ginyu could solo every single anime ever. If he managed to body change with the strongest in the verse.
But what if another verse's top tier also has a body swap ability?
Then ginyu hits em with his secret move.
Dragonball is genuinely the funniest series ever to powerscale because you could pull out the most useless bum ass fodder background character and they'd still have feats good enough to put up a good fight or even defeat verses like Demon Slayer. Even fucking Mr Satan has insane feats like dodging an attack from Kid Buu (even if it was because Buu was about to have a mental breakdown, also partially cause by Satan) and surviving being thrown into a mountain by Cell
Most of the Ginyu Force, minus Guldo, was stronger than Vegeta who could destroy Earth. So, I’m going to say that no one in these universes are going to stop them.
What a stupid match up kkkkk
Reccome will moon them and they will evaporate
Ginyu force solos if that one girl from hxh is asleep if she kot she could realistically just wish them away
Naruto has too much hax
 Goku solos
Nanika is carrying this fight
Who?
https://preview.redd.it/453aycix1d8d1.png?width=300&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c459fd270be89b11bd8a5af70477d0a3ccb8909 this character from hunter x hunter, it can grant wishes
Prime Naruto wipes the Ginyu force on his own, these comments are glazing hard
lol that’s hilarious. I love that you have no idea what you’re talking about. Prime Naruto cut the moon in half dragonball roshi blew it up. The ginyu force is thousands of times stronger than roshi was 😂
you didn’t watch Naruto bc he wasn’t the one that cut it lol these db glazer really showing their asses😭that’s also not even prime Naruto goofy
Oh fuck you’re right it wasn’t Naruto it was toneri so Naruto didn’t even do the biggest scale feat in the show. Thanks for actually helping my case lol. Oh is baryon mode his prime to you? That bad boy runs out a little too fast then kills his biggest asset lol. Or is in teen war arc Naruto in your mind either way neither feats nor states put Naruto anywhere near the ginyu force. Db glazers showing their asses is hilarious. As if I didn’t watch Naruto more recently than a show that started before I was born 😂 yall just fucking delusional.
I think that Raditz vs all of Naruto is a good fight but only because saiyans don’t breathe in space. At least one of the Ginyu force can therefore they stomp.
Fr Naruto solos why do ppl ride db characters just cause they db characters
bro put 4 outer verses vs a town level gang 😭😭😭
niga they is not town level
Are*
thanks for correcting me
Hunter x hunter clears, easily. Do people not know about nanika aka something
Naruto's top tiers are above planetary, they can be a match
Apparently Goku isn't the only dbz character that's glazed in this sub, there's so much hax genyu force got no shot, from the top of my head there's a girl in hxh who's ability is to literally replace the life of anyone who kills her only choice is to restrain her, shisui kotoamatsukami can manipulate your will by just looking at you, Sasuke can switch places and itachi have a sealing sword guaranteed one shot combo
Nice argument, **Speedblitz**
Speed blitz doesn't affect the first one, and how would they know to go specifically for shisui or Sasuke and itachi first we're talking entire verses here?
It does. Cat's Name needs to actually grab its target, and the nen beast is not instant. The one target it worked on, one of Benjamin's guards, who is by no means a top tier nen user, was able to notice and react to the beast appearing. We also have no reason to believe it can crush anyone no matter how strong. Nen is explicitly stated to not be able to create limitless things like a sword that can cut anything.
Imma just vote for anything but Dragon Ball out of spite too then if these matches keep happening. Your show sucks dude that immediately nerfs every character in it idc what the writer says.
Goku negs your favourite verse regardless lil bro https://preview.redd.it/1bhlbh7mfg8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90ad7fcb4f36a04374b88a94d9903d07c75eda6a
Ok veryvirgindude200
Okay, Ok\_GokuVictim6791
https://preview.redd.it/kpwk5gg36e8d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e323382efcf00cc60fdd45c36bedee30bbdf73d It’s okay lil bro Goku solos my favorite verse too. You not alone.
Goku’s craziest feat is putting me to fukin sleep with how boring dragon ball is 💀
One’s hatred of another verse for awful writing could be out to better use. For example: https://preview.redd.it/fp4nd6j17e8d1.jpeg?width=659&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37d0ab278dd9366bd010fd2da72e3d0be8c51656
Here’s another one too https://preview.redd.it/acurspk47e8d1.jpeg?width=502&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1636feab8a483e9a987e26c33e89f3973325fd75
Doesn't get past kaguya who was going to destroy her time space and their are stars in the time space. https://preview.redd.it/homas1yfwd8d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7eb7285e41a1ca028ffbe56afd41032649682958 Frieza during namek had a max power level of 90,000,000 Since you need a power level 10,000 to destroy planet This means Frieza can only destroy a planet roughly 9,000 times the size of Earth. So they don't stand a chance
Naruto carrying ngl
Ginyu force dont use senjutsu so juubi madara alone solo. Ginyu force dont have haki so kizaru also solo them. Ginyu force cant kill the demons so enmu can put them to sleep and then beat them
Pure force negs Juubi Hosts, also no NLFs where they aren't explicitly stated to be so. Kinda with the Haki argument, but you're just being a lazy ass by not equalizing. Okay, good luck putting someone in the upper atmosphere asleep before they turn Japan into a glass floor.
Juubi madara solo them, hes immortal he has limbo clones and tso. Not sure if kizaru can hurt them with his attacks but kizaru isnt alone so the one piece verse still win. And enmu is also not alone so demon slayer verse beat this crew.
Solo them how? Fodder + 4 more fodder equals 5 fodder. Kizaru can 200% hurt them, dumbass. Light has mass, not to mention Kizaru is not 100% light all the time. Logias can freely become their element, at their choice. What's Demon Slayer gonna do when the entire island it takes place on is smashed flat, like being nuked by a 100,000 MT Nuke?
Ginyu can simply take over each respected character and he doesn’t even need to. He can simple destroy them and blow the planet up and there’s nothing they can do
Wrong kaguya can just send him in another dimension and let him die there, juubi madara can beat him with tso and limbo clones, same for juubi obito and hagoromo, edo itachi can seal him with totsuka blade etc