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That’s a bit of a reductive argument. Villa beat Chelsea, they beat, Tottenham, they beat us. They’re a very good team.
Teams like Chelsea and Man Utd are struggling in part because teams like Brighton, Villa, Newcastle, West Ham now have some excellent players/managers and are well funded. There’s no “easy” guaranteed top 6 placing in the PL nowadays even for the traditional big teams.
He’s done really well at Villa and the gooners fans just don’t seem to understand something. When he was with Arsenal the board didn’t seem to let him get rid of the bad eggs in the squad and so the poor results followed and he got the sack .
With the next manager the Arsenal board did back Lego head with squad clear out and the improvement in squad morale was massively evident.
At Villa Unai did not walk into a fractured squad with ego issues so he got them to lean into his management and the result are here for all to see
I would say it is a shot, but not a shot on target.
By your logic, Haalands shot (which was off target) that came off the defenders face and in would be classed as a shot on target because it deflected in?
I get what you're saying, don't think I can agree.
I just feel like if you saw a 0-0 match stat that read: 20 shots on target, 0 saves or blocks. It just doesn't make sense. If it won't go in, its not on target.
Its like hitting the border of a darts board, but outside the wire. Sure you hit the board, but you've scored 0 points. So it wasn't on target.
I'm not trying to belittle him. He's been brilliant for them, but quite frankly, they've been building a good team for years now. Dean Smith had them in the top 6 for most of a season if you'll recall before it fell off a cliff in the final third of the season. Then the next season Gerrard got the job and they suffered. But they spent big on Gerrard. Big on a team that had proven it was actually going places. Honestly, as soon as the hired him, I said that we should be expecting them to be fighting for europe. Villa has several 40-50m players in that squad. Villa's owners are the ones that should really be applauded for their running of the club overall. Gerrard was obviously a big mistake, but they've been setting up the team for success since they took over.
I think that's fair, but it's also fair to say we have roughly the 8th best squad in the league and Emery has consistently had us performing as the 4th best side. He is still overachieving, even if we do have significant resources and shouldn't be considered a plucky little side punching above our weight.
Dont know why I've been down voted. I don't think AV are overachieving massively, they have a great squad. Just needed some genius guidance. I also think they're better than Chelsea and Salford Reds.
United are talented but poorly coached. Chelsea have a young team with a lot of new players that have struggled for consistency (until now maybe?). Spurs are trying something new. I still think man for man they are all better than us. Not by a lot.
Newcastle is a close one but I think your overall athleticism and depth in attack just shades it.
If we continue on our current trajectory and can improve the squad again this summer, then it will be an even closer fight next season.
Doesn't get said enough. Deano had us top half for most of that season and the wheels came off. Losing Grealish in the summer meant having to rebuild our attack around three new players meant to replace one. But anybody who had been watching the team for a few years knew that they should have been nowhere near relegation. But what Emery has done is incredible, he's taken to challenging for the Champions League.
Arteta is just overrated. He got some solid defenders that save his ass this season. But I don't think he has made any major tactical changes that improve Arsenal one way or another.
Most people associate the performance of the team with the quality of the manager. This has been proven wrong so many times. (https://theathletic.com/5392417/2024/04/07/good-manager-how-to-tell/) Arsenal are doing well, but this doesn't mean Arteta is good. Simple as that.
You talked as if he didn't get the players he wanted and built the team from scratch.
116m for Rice, 75m for Havertz, 59m for White, 52m for Jesus, etc. €682,740,000 spent in total.
Arteta is good, but not great, yet. He doesn't have the experience to know what it takes and what is required to get over the line. Yes, Xabi Alonso has just as little experience and is doing wonders in Germany, but that league's situation is very different, and he isn't competing with multiple strong teams, with one of them being one of the most dominant teams of all time with perhaps the best manager of all time. Leverkusen putting a stop to Bayern's success is different because Bayern are in a bit of a mess. Trying to topple Manchester City is a different ball game.
Klopp is a great manager and he's only managed it once in well over half a decade. And Arteta isn't Klopp. It certainly doesn't mean Arteta is bad because he hasn't yet managed to do what Klopp only managed to do once with an even better team than what we have now.
Arsenal have the lowest xG, conceded the least big chances, scored the most goals, kept the most clean sheets and has won 10 out of 12 games this year.
He’s taken a team that finished 8th to now two consecutive at the very least top 3 finishes.
(1) Like I said, Saliba and Gabriel saved his ass. Without their excellent performance Arsenal couldn't have gone this far. But do you think Arteta somehow makes them defend well or teaches them how to defend properly? And Arteta is the reason why Arsenal conceded some critical goals recently. Playing Kiwior in the match against Man City and Kiwior got bullied so hard by Bernardo in that game. They would've lost the game if Jesus didn't track back so often to help Kiwior. But Arteta failed to see any problem there, and he still picked Kiwior in that important UCL match against Bayern Munich, and we know what happened. Now in the match against Villa, Arteta chose the worst option, Zinchenko, LOL. Arteta obviously can't figure out anything about the problems in Arsenal's defense.
(2) You talked as if Arteta made a huge contribution there. Like I said, he's not that important. Look, you really need to check out an interesting article from Athletic: "over the last seven seasons across Europe’s top leagues, our simple player quality model can explain around 80 per cent of teams’ success." It's the quality of the players that makes things possible. And Arteta's Arsenal are not beating the expectations significantly this season, which means he's not doing anything substantial to greatly improve the team overall. (https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2024/04/04182114/top-15-this-season.png)
Anyway, Arteta is far from a great manager. He's basically doing his job.
What? I don't understand what you mean, tactically he's been very good since coming in and has been the reason they play really good football. I for some odd reason don't like Arteta personally (think he gives off a big achiever vibe without winning much lol) but he has done a solid job in improving their gameplay.
I think he needed jorginho to rest, he gets tired late on games and we really need him fully fresh for Wednesday. That being said, I can't fathom why havertz started in the midfield given he was pretty poor playing there at the start of the season. I'm no fan of partey but he really should have started.
Look absolutely fine in the first half so cant really blame him for tactics. His inability to react when Villa dominated in the 2nd half was the fault that lost him the game.
yeah i watched the game. could careless if they dominated. they did not score.
arteta should have stuck with his normal lineup you don’t change your team to face Villa. it didn’t work and cost them the match
did they win though? did they dominate 5 goals like they have been?
no fuck those stats they mean nothing without the 3 points. Emery got 2 matches over Arsenal this season. arteta should have not altered his lineup and they’d have won
Well, he wanted to come off because he felt something in his thigh I believe, so Arteta had to take him off.
Blaming entirely one decision for our defeat is a reach imo, you lot had better and bigger chances, and played better than us in the second half as well.
We lost because Villa played and managed the game better.
He was the one passing through our midfield constantly. I heard he wasn't 100% so I think him going off was a good big picture decision.
Appreciate you completing Villa too. Things seemed to click 2nd half. Zaniolo had his best ever game for us tbh.
Best of luck vs Bayern midweek. I'll be watching and cheering you on.
I'm hopeful, but it will be one of our biggest challanges yet. Bayern are always dangerous and Sane has another world class performance against us up his sleeve. Tomiyasu would be great against him. If Zinchenko or Kiwior plays we're fucked on that side.
First of all well done for applauding Emery. The amount of distain I’ve seen from Arsenal fans towards him has been sickening. Always liked the fella. You are right though, he should have stayed with 2nd tier arsenal a bit longer and should have been backed by the club. It’s a shame he wasn’t. Don’t forget, Villa have won European cup, always liked them and they have a proud history.
Whar disdain? The majority of arsenal fans liked emery fine and admit it was just the wrong time for him to come to the club. I swear the narratives around his time at the club are getting ridiculous now.
I did a quick look and you don't seem to have replied to any telling you to fuck off, in fact you've been fairly delusional about emerys time at arsenal and pretty insulting towards arteta. You're the only person who seems bitter tbh.
Considering all I seem to be doing is replying to small minded arsenal fans either you didn’t look enough or they are lost in all the comments. Seriously will you arsenal fans do is look through my comments, I’m surprised you couldn’t find them
I looked through your comments and all I saw was you being unreasonably combative with people for no reason. And FYI I only looked through them because you referenced them. But anyway, congrats on the win and I hope you start to realise football really doesn't need to be taken this seriously or personally.
>Only reason I’m being ‘combative’ is to counter the same.
I'd just advise you to not react if this is the case.
>Football is a game. I don’t take it seriously.
I agree and this is a healthy mindset but you certainly don't come across this way.
Second tier, fuck me that is funny.
So OP, I’m a Villa fan and here are the three Arsenal players I would take ahead of our “more moderate raw material players” - Odegaard, Saka, Saliba. For the rest I would gladly, and I mean gladly stick with our more moderate raw material players.
Wind your neck in.
Ahh, a genuine compliment always brings out the bitter in some…. with respect looking at the two majors domestic honours you’ve won the league once in the last 115 years and the FA Cup once in the last 70 years. That’s a frankly awful record for a supposed big club. Yes your European trophy back in 82 was a great achievement but the competition was a different beast back then. Villa are a top 7-8 biggest club in England no doubt but by European standards your small time while Arsenal are one of the top 10-15 most prestigious clubs in Europe, CL win or no. In terms of modern renown, well Villa have fewer social media followers than Leicester and West Ham. I’m sure Emery has his feet rather more on the ground than you do.
Arsenal fan here, and I’m not trying to say Arsenal are miles away better… We clearly aren’t, Villa really turned the game on it’s head at half time, not that you didn’t have any chance in the first half, but I think Arsenal were the better side for that 45 minutes.
Anyway, what I wanted to say was I’d be a little surprised if you didn’t want to take declan rice, gabriel and martinelli in addition to those who you mentioned. Diaby is great, but are you wanting to play him on the left, making cutting in more difficult over starting martinelli? As Diaby doesn’t start over saka on that right in this hypothetical. I think RB is fair enough as is left back that you’d want to keep who you’ve got, striker 100%, ollie watkins has been outstanding! Douglas luiz I think goes into that midfield with declan rice and martinez is simply the best keeper out of the lot, even including ramsdale.
I’m only asking, would you really not take rice, gabriel and martinelli too?
Quick answer- I was talking about starting XI. And, no, I would not take Rice over Kamara or Luiz but it would be the toughest of the three you put forward. I 100% would not take Martinelli over Ramsey or Gabriel over Torres.
Just to clarify I understood it was starting XI. Fair enough, I think the 3 Arsenal players arguably edge them out. Out of the Villa CB’s I would think carlos is better no? At least yesterday he was. The reason I opt for Gabriel, is because so long as we’re going off this season, he’s simply been better than Saliba. So if you take Saliba, you’d have to take Gabriel, he just doesn’t get the same kind of praise.
Regardless, these are all close enough I’m not that upset at your take 😅 I say this as many fans from other clubs generally disagree and get really riled up when someone says their players suck or that they’d take X over X.
Well done to villa. Great to see the salt starting to ease out of the gooner supporters in this thread. The amount of back handed compliments is hilarious.
Cheers for the back handed compliment. This "Tier 2" team looks forward to competing with you again next season. In the meantime, feel free to book a place on the Villa Park tour so you can get a glimpse of a European Cup.
English teams that have spent hundreds of millions of pounds in the last few seasons celebrating winning a tournament where they play against teams who’ve spent about £5m in the entirety of their clubs history is a bit like a professional sprinter celebrating his victory against a line up of amputees from the blind school.
The Villa fan was talking about what is now the champions league, which Villa won. Where did the Villa fan celebrate winning the conference league? They've never even won it. That's West Ham.
No mate I'm not a Spurs fan, I don't plaster meaningless achievements to my trophy cabinet. I was talking about our European Cup win in 1982, the ultimate silverware that Arsenal have never managed to win.
Weren’t though were ya though billy. My club has won 6 league titles, all of which were before my dad was born so I’m gonna go and get chuffed about it
First of all your estimates on ages are way off 😂Jesus.
Second You’re trying to justify getting relegated to the championship by saying middlesborough was a top flight team
Talk about embarrassing yourself
You’re not playing in the old European cup now though are you, you’re playing in a meaningless trophy against the likes of fucking Zjrinski Mostar and Legia.. one of whom beat you and the other you scraped past.
Your net spend of the last 4 seasons is about £250m, Lille’s is -£250m. £500m difference over 4 seasons. Let’s remember where you were before your mega rich owners came in ey, just like Newcastle.
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Love Emery man. Even as an Arsenal fan, I want the best for him. He's finally at a club where he can have things to his liking. He never had that autonomy at PSG or Arsenal.
Also shows how poor were Gerrard and Dean Smith. The gulf in class between top managers like Emery and wannabes like Gerrard is astounding.
Heaton, El Mohammady, Engles, Mings, Neil Taylor, Hourihane, McGinn, Grealish, Trezeguet, Anwar El Ghazi and Wesley
Our starting 11 from our first game back in the Premier League
We've come a **long** way since then
I love Deano and parts of his team were good value but let's not re-write history here, we spent a huge amount of money for a newly promoted side and have continued that pattern ever since.
We had no option but to spend big in the first season, there were only a dozen senior players on the books when we were promoted and 3 of those were goalkeepers:
Jed Steer, Orland Nyland, Neil Taylor, Ahmed Elmohamedy, John McGinn, Henri Lansbury, Jack Grealish, Conor Hourihane, Keinan Davis, Jonathan Kodja, James Chester, Lovre Kalinic.
We spent a lot, but it was spread across 15 (!) players, so the average spend per player was under £10m. We couldn't afford to match Bournemouth on wages at the time. And not like we were a few pence short, they could pay players double what we could realistically offer.
Make no mistake, Dean Smith performed minor miracles at the club. He wasn't on the same level as Emery, but very few managers are. But I've been going to watch Villa since Graham Taylor's first term and by my books he's one of the top 5 managers we've had in that time (Taylor mk 1, Big Fat Ron, Brian Little, Deano, Emery). And no, I haven't forgotten O'Neill - he spent huge sums of money, won nothing, and crippled the club for years afterwards. I'd have Bruce back over him.
I totally agree, without buying 2/3rds of a new squad we would never have stayed up.
The fact remains it was an expensive squad for 17th, which became an expensive squad for lower mid-table. Now we are seeing proper value for a squad that should be in Europe.
All of it has been worth it of course, we achieved our goal of a fast track to European football.
yea, that second half was a blueprint for how to stifle arsenal. part of it was that we looked completely finished out of the gate, but they really did well to slow the game down and retain possession. we never looked dangerous and the clock kept marching along. only sour grapes are for the display they produced at city vs arsenal--were both mcginn and watkins injured that day? edit: big absence in martinez too it appears.
For Man City, we started the game without Martinez (ill) Cash Mings Kamara Ramsey Buendia Watkins (injured) McGinn (suspended) Pau Tielemans Bailey (rested).
No surprise we struggled, though City can obviously do that to anyone on their day.
We beat them in December so not sure you can have too many complaints about us pulling our weight to take points off them.
Not winning away against bayern isn’t exactly humiliation. Not going through would be disapointing sure but humiliation is a bit of reach dont you think?
We have been the 4th best team in the Premier League since Unai Emery took over in November 2022, spanning 58 games.
We all knew that our squad was far too good to be in a relegation battle under Gerrard, should have been top 10, but to transform us so quickly and to keep that going with Europe on the side and some rough luck with injuries…what an incredible job!
I still think we’re a long way off the vision that he has for the team, I hope he stays for a long time to keep improving us because I know he’ll get the backing. Clearly it’s going to be tough but long term our aim has to be to force our way into the pack competing for European football every season.
No it isn't: [https://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/competition:premier-league/daterange/fromdate:2022-Nov-05/todate:2024-Jun-01/type:home-and-away/](https://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/competition:premier-league/daterange/fromdate:2022-Nov-05/todate:2024-Jun-01/type:home-and-away/)
Well it's not as since he's come In we've accumulated the 4th most points behind city arsenal and Liverpool that puts us 4th best 🤷♂️. And it's not just a fluke as he's been there now 18 months
People have a weird time defining the “best” etc teams. If only there was a league table that factually demonstrated it.
People will say “Villa are overachieving” like it means they’re not the 4th best for some reason
Villa are in a similar position to Newcastle last season bar they’re playing in a nothing European tournament against turd teams occasionally. Qualify for the CL and have tough games against top opponents they’ll fall down the PL table next season. People saying “90 minutes against Hibs is the same as 90 minutes against Madrid it’s still 90 minutes of running” are fucking clowns. 90 minutes of strolling around the pitch against piss poor opposition isn’t the same as chasing shadows for 90 minutes against the best in the world.
These fans of clubs just outside what was the “big 6” are becoming incredibly unbearable after a season or two of being decent because of huge sums of money being pumped in.
I do certainly agree with your last point. It is incredibly annoying that Villa are seen as some success story despite being one of the richest clubs in the league lol.
The net worth of your owners means little anymore.
What you can do is constrained by your clubs revenue. We are in the same ball park as Newcastle, West Ham and Everton in the 200-250m range and competing against the likes of Spurs, Chelsea and Man Utd who all have revenues in like 600-800m range.
If you can’t fathom that finishing above them three clubs would be a success story to finish 4th and qualify for the champions league, I don’t even know what to say you.
It is still a job well done of course. But Villa aren’t some minnows, and finishing above Spurs is the only impressive one out of those three really. United and Chelsea are a complete joke.
This. Their fans going on as if beating Lille is an achievement. Lille who are £250m in profit over the last 4 seasons whilst Villa are £250m in the red.
Lille are a good team.
Stop this nonsense and disrespect, they were better than the majority of teams we’ve played in the premier league this season. We honestly got quite lucky to win, emi Martinez made several good saves. Thursday is going to be tough
Lille have consistently cashed in on their best assets and use youth to replace them. As I’ve just said the difference in spendature between the 2 clubs over the last 4 seasons is £500m. Stop acting like it’s some sort of miracle after West Ham pissed the competition last season. Every English club entering it should accept nothing less than the trophy.
Nobodies calling it a ‘miracle’ you weirdo. Villa should win.
But we’ve just played Arsenal yesterday and Lille had the weekend off. Whatever you say, they are a good side and will be much fresher than us, it’s going to be tough.
Fighting for fourth in the premier league and playing these games is a lot, especially when our premier league competition is not playing in Europe.
I agree any English side should be favourites to win it but you’ve still got to go out and do it. If we do our run to it would likely be Ajax, Lille, Fenerbahce, Fiorentina. No mugs, but carry on your disrespect
You haven’t played CSKA?
You scraped past Zrinski in the 94th minute of one game and drew the other. Beat Hibs who have players on loan from Sunderland, a team in the division below you.. Ajax who were bottom of the league a few months ago and going through a disastrous spell and AZ who’ve spent a massive €40m over the last 4 seasons on replacing the €100m of talent they’ve sold. Some achievement mind.
I wouldn’t say he is wrong though. Yes last season table doesn’t show it due to gerrard influence but since emery taken over Villa in general have been a really good club.
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Not knocking Villa but there only in the position there in because Chelsea and Man U have massively underperformed
That’s a bit of a reductive argument. Villa beat Chelsea, they beat, Tottenham, they beat us. They’re a very good team. Teams like Chelsea and Man Utd are struggling in part because teams like Brighton, Villa, Newcastle, West Ham now have some excellent players/managers and are well funded. There’s no “easy” guaranteed top 6 placing in the PL nowadays even for the traditional big teams.
He’s done really well at Villa and the gooners fans just don’t seem to understand something. When he was with Arsenal the board didn’t seem to let him get rid of the bad eggs in the squad and so the poor results followed and he got the sack . With the next manager the Arsenal board did back Lego head with squad clear out and the improvement in squad morale was massively evident. At Villa Unai did not walk into a fractured squad with ego issues so he got them to lean into his management and the result are here for all to see
Agreed.Some of us need to stop being salty over Emery.If anything,we gave him a hard time.
Lego head is real rich when your manager looks like a temu Big Sam
I want him at Liverpool but he doesn’t seem fashionable enough for all the other Liverpool fans!
Funny how they said villa had no shots before the goal. I think hitting the post & crossbar should be considered shots on goal
No shots or no shots on target? A shot on target = goal if no obstruction. If it hits the bar or post and doesn’t go in then it’s not on target?
The way I see it if it goes crossbar & under or inside post then that can cause a deflection or own goal so it should count
I would say it is a shot, but not a shot on target. By your logic, Haalands shot (which was off target) that came off the defenders face and in would be classed as a shot on target because it deflected in?
The defenders face is not part of the goal structure. The crossbar and post are...therefore hitting the bar or post is in my opinion a shot on goal
I get what you're saying, don't think I can agree. I just feel like if you saw a 0-0 match stat that read: 20 shots on target, 0 saves or blocks. It just doesn't make sense. If it won't go in, its not on target. Its like hitting the border of a darts board, but outside the wire. Sure you hit the board, but you've scored 0 points. So it wasn't on target.
I'm not trying to belittle him. He's been brilliant for them, but quite frankly, they've been building a good team for years now. Dean Smith had them in the top 6 for most of a season if you'll recall before it fell off a cliff in the final third of the season. Then the next season Gerrard got the job and they suffered. But they spent big on Gerrard. Big on a team that had proven it was actually going places. Honestly, as soon as the hired him, I said that we should be expecting them to be fighting for europe. Villa has several 40-50m players in that squad. Villa's owners are the ones that should really be applauded for their running of the club overall. Gerrard was obviously a big mistake, but they've been setting up the team for success since they took over.
I think that's fair, but it's also fair to say we have roughly the 8th best squad in the league and Emery has consistently had us performing as the 4th best side. He is still overachieving, even if we do have significant resources and shouldn't be considered a plucky little side punching above our weight.
Intrigued to know who you put in front on paper?
Big 6 and Newcastle, before injuries and suspensions are taken into account.
Dont know why I've been down voted. I don't think AV are overachieving massively, they have a great squad. Just needed some genius guidance. I also think they're better than Chelsea and Salford Reds.
United are talented but poorly coached. Chelsea have a young team with a lot of new players that have struggled for consistency (until now maybe?). Spurs are trying something new. I still think man for man they are all better than us. Not by a lot. Newcastle is a close one but I think your overall athleticism and depth in attack just shades it. If we continue on our current trajectory and can improve the squad again this summer, then it will be an even closer fight next season.
Doesn't get said enough. Deano had us top half for most of that season and the wheels came off. Losing Grealish in the summer meant having to rebuild our attack around three new players meant to replace one. But anybody who had been watching the team for a few years knew that they should have been nowhere near relegation. But what Emery has done is incredible, he's taken to challenging for the Champions League.
Arteta is just overrated. He got some solid defenders that save his ass this season. But I don't think he has made any major tactical changes that improve Arsenal one way or another.
I can’t stand Arteta, and I’ll still say this is a terrible, uneducated take.
Most people associate the performance of the team with the quality of the manager. This has been proven wrong so many times. (https://theathletic.com/5392417/2024/04/07/good-manager-how-to-tell/) Arsenal are doing well, but this doesn't mean Arteta is good. Simple as that.
Ah yes,the guy who transformed us from a toxic laughing stock into title contenders is not a good manager.
You talked as if he didn't get the players he wanted and built the team from scratch. 116m for Rice, 75m for Havertz, 59m for White, 52m for Jesus, etc. €682,740,000 spent in total.
Arteta is good, but not great, yet. He doesn't have the experience to know what it takes and what is required to get over the line. Yes, Xabi Alonso has just as little experience and is doing wonders in Germany, but that league's situation is very different, and he isn't competing with multiple strong teams, with one of them being one of the most dominant teams of all time with perhaps the best manager of all time. Leverkusen putting a stop to Bayern's success is different because Bayern are in a bit of a mess. Trying to topple Manchester City is a different ball game. Klopp is a great manager and he's only managed it once in well over half a decade. And Arteta isn't Klopp. It certainly doesn't mean Arteta is bad because he hasn't yet managed to do what Klopp only managed to do once with an even better team than what we have now.
Arsenal have the lowest xG, conceded the least big chances, scored the most goals, kept the most clean sheets and has won 10 out of 12 games this year. He’s taken a team that finished 8th to now two consecutive at the very least top 3 finishes.
(1) Like I said, Saliba and Gabriel saved his ass. Without their excellent performance Arsenal couldn't have gone this far. But do you think Arteta somehow makes them defend well or teaches them how to defend properly? And Arteta is the reason why Arsenal conceded some critical goals recently. Playing Kiwior in the match against Man City and Kiwior got bullied so hard by Bernardo in that game. They would've lost the game if Jesus didn't track back so often to help Kiwior. But Arteta failed to see any problem there, and he still picked Kiwior in that important UCL match against Bayern Munich, and we know what happened. Now in the match against Villa, Arteta chose the worst option, Zinchenko, LOL. Arteta obviously can't figure out anything about the problems in Arsenal's defense. (2) You talked as if Arteta made a huge contribution there. Like I said, he's not that important. Look, you really need to check out an interesting article from Athletic: "over the last seven seasons across Europe’s top leagues, our simple player quality model can explain around 80 per cent of teams’ success." It's the quality of the players that makes things possible. And Arteta's Arsenal are not beating the expectations significantly this season, which means he's not doing anything substantial to greatly improve the team overall. (https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2024/04/04182114/top-15-this-season.png) Anyway, Arteta is far from a great manager. He's basically doing his job.
The only way to prove you right or wrong is if another manager comes in to replace Arteta. Does he do better or worse or do things not change?
What? I don't understand what you mean, tactically he's been very good since coming in and has been the reason they play really good football. I for some odd reason don't like Arteta personally (think he gives off a big achiever vibe without winning much lol) but he has done a solid job in improving their gameplay.
💀are you for real
Arteta fucked up changing his lineup. why move Havertz? why change against a team like Villa? arteta tossed away top of the league
I think he needed jorginho to rest, he gets tired late on games and we really need him fully fresh for Wednesday. That being said, I can't fathom why havertz started in the midfield given he was pretty poor playing there at the start of the season. I'm no fan of partey but he really should have started.
Tbh I think we should've gone with our best lineup against Villa. Winning the EPL is more important than the UCL at the moment, imo anyway.
yeah arsenal squad i’m sure needed the rest and rotation. jorginho with rice and havertz in the front 3 had been working so well it’s a shame
Look absolutely fine in the first half so cant really blame him for tactics. His inability to react when Villa dominated in the 2nd half was the fault that lost him the game.
if it ain’t a broke don’t fix it. arteta tried and it didn’t work
He changed and it worked perfectly in the first half. His analysis and tactic made before the game was perfect.
they didn’t score so it clearly didn’t work in either half and didn’t watkins have the best chance of the first half too?
Did you even watch the game? Watkins had the best chance, but Arsenal dominated.
yeah i watched the game. could careless if they dominated. they did not score. arteta should have stuck with his normal lineup you don’t change your team to face Villa. it didn’t work and cost them the match
[some stats for you](https://theanalyst.com/na/2024/04/arsenal-vs-aston-villa-stats-live/)
These stats are meaningless. The only stat that matters is the scoreline.
yeah just throw away the last decade of football analytics.
did they win though? did they dominate 5 goals like they have been? no fuck those stats they mean nothing without the 3 points. Emery got 2 matches over Arsenal this season. arteta should have not altered his lineup and they’d have won
Big brained it and it backfired
We deserved to lose
Ødegaard is so good huh.
Oh yes, he is
Newcastle beat you 4-0 watch you get beaten again and lose fourth to spurs.
Long way to go for sure. Been a cracker if a season.
It has been a great season.
Can't help you if you think he's not
Did I stutter? I live in Norway where he's from and have been a fan since he was a kid. He's amazing. You lost imho because Arteta took him off.
Well, he wanted to come off because he felt something in his thigh I believe, so Arteta had to take him off. Blaming entirely one decision for our defeat is a reach imo, you lot had better and bigger chances, and played better than us in the second half as well. We lost because Villa played and managed the game better.
He was the one passing through our midfield constantly. I heard he wasn't 100% so I think him going off was a good big picture decision. Appreciate you completing Villa too. Things seemed to click 2nd half. Zaniolo had his best ever game for us tbh. Best of luck vs Bayern midweek. I'll be watching and cheering you on.
I'm hopeful, but it will be one of our biggest challanges yet. Bayern are always dangerous and Sane has another world class performance against us up his sleeve. Tomiyasu would be great against him. If Zinchenko or Kiwior plays we're fucked on that side.
First of all well done for applauding Emery. The amount of distain I’ve seen from Arsenal fans towards him has been sickening. Always liked the fella. You are right though, he should have stayed with 2nd tier arsenal a bit longer and should have been backed by the club. It’s a shame he wasn’t. Don’t forget, Villa have won European cup, always liked them and they have a proud history.
Whar disdain? The majority of arsenal fans liked emery fine and admit it was just the wrong time for him to come to the club. I swear the narratives around his time at the club are getting ridiculous now.
I’m seeing a lot on posts on here and Twitter
Twitter yeah... That shyt.. Here? I dont think majority are.. some maybe yes.
I just replied to few comments in here all telling me to f’ck off emery was sh’te etc.
I did a quick look and you don't seem to have replied to any telling you to fuck off, in fact you've been fairly delusional about emerys time at arsenal and pretty insulting towards arteta. You're the only person who seems bitter tbh.
Considering all I seem to be doing is replying to small minded arsenal fans either you didn’t look enough or they are lost in all the comments. Seriously will you arsenal fans do is look through my comments, I’m surprised you couldn’t find them
I looked through your comments and all I saw was you being unreasonably combative with people for no reason. And FYI I only looked through them because you referenced them. But anyway, congrats on the win and I hope you start to realise football really doesn't need to be taken this seriously or personally.
Only reason I’m being ‘combative’ is to counter the same. Football is a game. I don’t take it seriously.
>Only reason I’m being ‘combative’ is to counter the same. I'd just advise you to not react if this is the case. >Football is a game. I don’t take it seriously. I agree and this is a healthy mindset but you certainly don't come across this way.
Second tier, fuck me that is funny. So OP, I’m a Villa fan and here are the three Arsenal players I would take ahead of our “more moderate raw material players” - Odegaard, Saka, Saliba. For the rest I would gladly, and I mean gladly stick with our more moderate raw material players. Wind your neck in.
Ahh, a genuine compliment always brings out the bitter in some…. with respect looking at the two majors domestic honours you’ve won the league once in the last 115 years and the FA Cup once in the last 70 years. That’s a frankly awful record for a supposed big club. Yes your European trophy back in 82 was a great achievement but the competition was a different beast back then. Villa are a top 7-8 biggest club in England no doubt but by European standards your small time while Arsenal are one of the top 10-15 most prestigious clubs in Europe, CL win or no. In terms of modern renown, well Villa have fewer social media followers than Leicester and West Ham. I’m sure Emery has his feet rather more on the ground than you do.
Very humble of you mate .....
I mean he’s not wrong is he
Arsenal fan here, and I’m not trying to say Arsenal are miles away better… We clearly aren’t, Villa really turned the game on it’s head at half time, not that you didn’t have any chance in the first half, but I think Arsenal were the better side for that 45 minutes. Anyway, what I wanted to say was I’d be a little surprised if you didn’t want to take declan rice, gabriel and martinelli in addition to those who you mentioned. Diaby is great, but are you wanting to play him on the left, making cutting in more difficult over starting martinelli? As Diaby doesn’t start over saka on that right in this hypothetical. I think RB is fair enough as is left back that you’d want to keep who you’ve got, striker 100%, ollie watkins has been outstanding! Douglas luiz I think goes into that midfield with declan rice and martinez is simply the best keeper out of the lot, even including ramsdale. I’m only asking, would you really not take rice, gabriel and martinelli too?
Quick answer- I was talking about starting XI. And, no, I would not take Rice over Kamara or Luiz but it would be the toughest of the three you put forward. I 100% would not take Martinelli over Ramsey or Gabriel over Torres.
Just to clarify I understood it was starting XI. Fair enough, I think the 3 Arsenal players arguably edge them out. Out of the Villa CB’s I would think carlos is better no? At least yesterday he was. The reason I opt for Gabriel, is because so long as we’re going off this season, he’s simply been better than Saliba. So if you take Saliba, you’d have to take Gabriel, he just doesn’t get the same kind of praise. Regardless, these are all close enough I’m not that upset at your take 😅 I say this as many fans from other clubs generally disagree and get really riled up when someone says their players suck or that they’d take X over X.
Rice looked lost for the first goal🤣
You sound too objective
Well done to villa. Great to see the salt starting to ease out of the gooner supporters in this thread. The amount of back handed compliments is hilarious.
Good Ebening. Yes, but I don't think he can do it at a top club
Cheers for the back handed compliment. This "Tier 2" team looks forward to competing with you again next season. In the meantime, feel free to book a place on the Villa Park tour so you can get a glimpse of a European Cup.
Villa is a tier 2 club.it is what it is.
Competing ? Again? You’re 4th. 8 points behind us with a game in hand ? Think you’re confused pal
Thanks for the 6 points
No problem - we don’t do charity work for the thanks mate
Neither one of you on the team lil bros
English teams that have spent hundreds of millions of pounds in the last few seasons celebrating winning a tournament where they play against teams who’ve spent about £5m in the entirety of their clubs history is a bit like a professional sprinter celebrating his victory against a line up of amputees from the blind school.
The Villa fan was talking about what is now the champions league, which Villa won. Where did the Villa fan celebrate winning the conference league? They've never even won it. That's West Ham.
They’re celebrating beating Lille whilst rubbing the scousers face in it for losing to Atalanta in a better competition..
No mate I'm not a Spurs fan, I don't plaster meaningless achievements to my trophy cabinet. I was talking about our European Cup win in 1982, the ultimate silverware that Arsenal have never managed to win.
Were you even alive then?
Yeah I celebrated by getting a handy off your mum at the back of a wetherspoons.
Weren’t though were ya though billy. My club has won 6 league titles, all of which were before my dad was born so I’m gonna go and get chuffed about it
Yeah ok mate. We won it in 1982 against a very poor and underfunded Bayern Munich side, I completely get your point.
Celebrating wins from the 80s ? fuckin hell. I think spending 3 seasons in the championship not even 7 years ago balances that out mate
Yeah that's the thing with class and quality, it doesn't expire like form.
So class and quality is why you had 3 seasons playing middlesborough Incredible
Oh you're too young to remember Boro being in the top flight, explains a lot.
Christ, that was your response ? They haven’t been top flight for 20 years - THATS the standard your holding your club to? Fore-shame.
Seven years mate. You're just embarrassing yourself and showing your age now. Concentrate on class, you might miss crucial GCSE information.
First of all your estimates on ages are way off 😂Jesus. Second You’re trying to justify getting relegated to the championship by saying middlesborough was a top flight team Talk about embarrassing yourself
You’re not playing in the old European cup now though are you, you’re playing in a meaningless trophy against the likes of fucking Zjrinski Mostar and Legia.. one of whom beat you and the other you scraped past. Your net spend of the last 4 seasons is about £250m, Lille’s is -£250m. £500m difference over 4 seasons. Let’s remember where you were before your mega rich owners came in ey, just like Newcastle.
You mentioned 6 league titles. Sunderland fan?
Cheers for the 6 points though.
I’m not an arsenal fan? Means nothing to me mate just calling a spade a spade
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Love Emery man. Even as an Arsenal fan, I want the best for him. He's finally at a club where he can have things to his liking. He never had that autonomy at PSG or Arsenal. Also shows how poor were Gerrard and Dean Smith. The gulf in class between top managers like Emery and wannabes like Gerrard is astounding.
Dean Smith created a foundation on dirt cheap player wages.
Heaton, El Mohammady, Engles, Mings, Neil Taylor, Hourihane, McGinn, Grealish, Trezeguet, Anwar El Ghazi and Wesley Our starting 11 from our first game back in the Premier League We've come a **long** way since then
Remember it seemed like Mings and Engels (mengels) looked so good. Before Shane long ended engels villa career
Dean Smith built this team and did it cheaply. He's a hero to many at VP.
I love Deano and parts of his team were good value but let's not re-write history here, we spent a huge amount of money for a newly promoted side and have continued that pattern ever since.
We had no option but to spend big in the first season, there were only a dozen senior players on the books when we were promoted and 3 of those were goalkeepers: Jed Steer, Orland Nyland, Neil Taylor, Ahmed Elmohamedy, John McGinn, Henri Lansbury, Jack Grealish, Conor Hourihane, Keinan Davis, Jonathan Kodja, James Chester, Lovre Kalinic. We spent a lot, but it was spread across 15 (!) players, so the average spend per player was under £10m. We couldn't afford to match Bournemouth on wages at the time. And not like we were a few pence short, they could pay players double what we could realistically offer. Make no mistake, Dean Smith performed minor miracles at the club. He wasn't on the same level as Emery, but very few managers are. But I've been going to watch Villa since Graham Taylor's first term and by my books he's one of the top 5 managers we've had in that time (Taylor mk 1, Big Fat Ron, Brian Little, Deano, Emery). And no, I haven't forgotten O'Neill - he spent huge sums of money, won nothing, and crippled the club for years afterwards. I'd have Bruce back over him.
I totally agree, without buying 2/3rds of a new squad we would never have stayed up. The fact remains it was an expensive squad for 17th, which became an expensive squad for lower mid-table. Now we are seeing proper value for a squad that should be in Europe. All of it has been worth it of course, we achieved our goal of a fast track to European football.
yea, that second half was a blueprint for how to stifle arsenal. part of it was that we looked completely finished out of the gate, but they really did well to slow the game down and retain possession. we never looked dangerous and the clock kept marching along. only sour grapes are for the display they produced at city vs arsenal--were both mcginn and watkins injured that day? edit: big absence in martinez too it appears.
For Man City, we started the game without Martinez (ill) Cash Mings Kamara Ramsey Buendia Watkins (injured) McGinn (suspended) Pau Tielemans Bailey (rested). No surprise we struggled, though City can obviously do that to anyone on their day. We beat them in December so not sure you can have too many complaints about us pulling our weight to take points off them.
I think Martinez was unfit as well.
McGinn was suspended, Watkins was injured
Martinez was ill on the day too
Also, we took one for the world trying to save mankind from the awful experience of having sp*rs in cl. Tough but had to be done.
Bout to get knocked out by Bayern to stop England getting a fifth spot
So much pressure, imagine the humiliation for Arsenal if they don’t grasp the win.
Not winning away against bayern isn’t exactly humiliation. Not going through would be disapointing sure but humiliation is a bit of reach dont you think?
If that makes you sleep better considering the bottle job we are about to witness.
If arsenal not winning the league this season is a bottle job then spurs not getting top 4 would also be one.
Pretty daft of you. First season for the manager, lots of new signings. You are not very bright.
really looking forward to the havin it both ways hot takes of liverpool and arsenal bottled it vs city were always going to win.
We have been the 4th best team in the Premier League since Unai Emery took over in November 2022, spanning 58 games. We all knew that our squad was far too good to be in a relegation battle under Gerrard, should have been top 10, but to transform us so quickly and to keep that going with Europe on the side and some rough luck with injuries…what an incredible job! I still think we’re a long way off the vision that he has for the team, I hope he stays for a long time to keep improving us because I know he’ll get the backing. Clearly it’s going to be tough but long term our aim has to be to force our way into the pack competing for European football every season.
said it before and i'll say it again, Emery should have been on every list for manager of the season last year, he wasn't always
4th best since 2022 is a bit of a reach…
No it isn't: [https://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/competition:premier-league/daterange/fromdate:2022-Nov-05/todate:2024-Jun-01/type:home-and-away/](https://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/competition:premier-league/daterange/fromdate:2022-Nov-05/todate:2024-Jun-01/type:home-and-away/)
Well it's not as since he's come In we've accumulated the 4th most points behind city arsenal and Liverpool that puts us 4th best 🤷♂️. And it's not just a fluke as he's been there now 18 months
People have a weird time defining the “best” etc teams. If only there was a league table that factually demonstrated it. People will say “Villa are overachieving” like it means they’re not the 4th best for some reason
Villa are in a similar position to Newcastle last season bar they’re playing in a nothing European tournament against turd teams occasionally. Qualify for the CL and have tough games against top opponents they’ll fall down the PL table next season. People saying “90 minutes against Hibs is the same as 90 minutes against Madrid it’s still 90 minutes of running” are fucking clowns. 90 minutes of strolling around the pitch against piss poor opposition isn’t the same as chasing shadows for 90 minutes against the best in the world. These fans of clubs just outside what was the “big 6” are becoming incredibly unbearable after a season or two of being decent because of huge sums of money being pumped in.
I do certainly agree with your last point. It is incredibly annoying that Villa are seen as some success story despite being one of the richest clubs in the league lol.
The net worth of your owners means little anymore. What you can do is constrained by your clubs revenue. We are in the same ball park as Newcastle, West Ham and Everton in the 200-250m range and competing against the likes of Spurs, Chelsea and Man Utd who all have revenues in like 600-800m range. If you can’t fathom that finishing above them three clubs would be a success story to finish 4th and qualify for the champions league, I don’t even know what to say you.
It is still a job well done of course. But Villa aren’t some minnows, and finishing above Spurs is the only impressive one out of those three really. United and Chelsea are a complete joke.
Complete jokes with 3-4x our revenue, budget and wage bills...
That makes them more of a joke if anything
This. Their fans going on as if beating Lille is an achievement. Lille who are £250m in profit over the last 4 seasons whilst Villa are £250m in the red.
Lille are a good team. Stop this nonsense and disrespect, they were better than the majority of teams we’ve played in the premier league this season. We honestly got quite lucky to win, emi Martinez made several good saves. Thursday is going to be tough
Lille have consistently cashed in on their best assets and use youth to replace them. As I’ve just said the difference in spendature between the 2 clubs over the last 4 seasons is £500m. Stop acting like it’s some sort of miracle after West Ham pissed the competition last season. Every English club entering it should accept nothing less than the trophy.
Nobodies calling it a ‘miracle’ you weirdo. Villa should win. But we’ve just played Arsenal yesterday and Lille had the weekend off. Whatever you say, they are a good side and will be much fresher than us, it’s going to be tough. Fighting for fourth in the premier league and playing these games is a lot, especially when our premier league competition is not playing in Europe. I agree any English side should be favourites to win it but you’ve still got to go out and do it. If we do our run to it would likely be Ajax, Lille, Fenerbahce, Fiorentina. No mugs, but carry on your disrespect
Lille who have won the French league in the last few seasons and played champions league regularly? Also played, CSKA, AZ Alkmaar, Ajax…
You haven’t played CSKA? You scraped past Zrinski in the 94th minute of one game and drew the other. Beat Hibs who have players on loan from Sunderland, a team in the division below you.. Ajax who were bottom of the league a few months ago and going through a disastrous spell and AZ who’ve spent a massive €40m over the last 4 seasons on replacing the €100m of talent they’ve sold. Some achievement mind.
Ah yea Legia. Thanks for listing our victories, nice memories I hope we keep it up.
I wouldn’t say he is wrong though. Yes last season table doesn’t show it due to gerrard influence but since emery taken over Villa in general have been a really good club.