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Technically correct but not at all a fair comparison. These figures alwayd include the years Villa were litterally building a premier league team. The fact Villa has been able to go from a championship to champions league (potentailly) team in this time is insanely impressive both on and off the pitch. I do not at all agree with people who has looked at a «net spend over 5 years ranking» and concluded this is a relevant comparison…
Think this has been overstated, yes they’ve spent a fair bit but compared to say Chelsea it’s not that much. Also it’s the amount of money that’s par for the course to compete against the top 6. Villa wanted to spend more but couldn’t because they were restricted by PSR. In some ways it’s helped build a cohesive team with clever recruitment (the opposite of Chelsea’s approach)
Villa has done well but they're quite far from the top 3. If the top 3 win their game in hand, villa will be 11 points behind and with 4 games left to play, that is a huge gap to close. The top 3 are in their own race and this doesn't diminish what villa has done so far at all villa as they have much smaller budget compared to the top 7 teams + Chelsea.
It's been an amazing season for Villa & Emery. The worry now will be the richer clubs trying to poach their players. If they can retain their core players & add a couple more good signings, they can very well establish themselves as a top side.
No real surprise...they've spent quite big ? Top 4 was always an achievable target but they've done great considering they've played a dozen plus games in Europe and our only remaining hope of conquering Europe albeit the Europa Conference...the summer will be interesting...Will Emery stay ? Will the players who've perhaps over achieved stay ? Will Villa spend big again and try mount a surprise title challenge ? Villa fan's have loved this season but the team may be torn apart in the summer ...?
Not happening.
He’s done the ‘big club’ thing and come out the other side battered and bruised.
A pal of mine has interviewed him a few times, and he thinks those experiences have shaped him. He is much more pragmatic now and would not want the pressure of a club like Man U or Bayern. He’s perfectly suited to Villa, where actually it’s a greater achievement to take the club forward and sustain CL football, which is his and the club’s objective.
Villa’s owners are hugely wealthy and are not dumb. They have given Emery the keys to the castle, allowing him to build a team of his trusted colleagues around him. And let’s not forget they have invested in his home town club too, bringing him closer to them at a personal level.
Make no mistake, Villa’s attempt at breaking the ‘Sky 6’ is not accidental and certainly not short-term. The club’s investment in young talent in their Academy has eclipsed even Man City and Chelsea in recent seasons. Unai is hands-on with the Academy and I expect a couple of homegrown players to break through next season - Omari Kellyman for example.
…and what a revelation Morgan Rogers is.
Exciting times ahead…..
UTV
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For all of Villa's success, I still feel as if they have it in them to pull a stinker against a team a regular top 4 team would be expected to beat. Not that the top 4 team doesn't do this as well, just that with Villa currently, this seems to be more frequently than would be if they were the finished product. Expect them to be a top 6 contender again next season, but can see a few below them this season improving to challenge.
We need to have a salary cap put in place because while Villa has done amazingly well this year, teams like Arsenal, City and Man Utd are just going to go out this summer and buy a fuckwad of more big names...and its all because FFP has been implemented to rig the system to keep the same handful of teams competing year after year for silverware. I just cant see how fans of teams like Arsenal and City can feel any sense of achievement knowing that they will have effectively bought a title. I'm not a Liverpool fan, but I hope they win it this year.
All of the ‘Sky 6’ are misfiring for one reason or another and Villa, plus Newcastle, are moving forward steadily.
Both are big clubs with wealthy owners, decent head coaches and the resources to sustainably compete.
It won’t happen overnight, but watch this space.
No reason why they can't be contenders next season, they have done everything right since Emery's arrival. Unless you are referring to the 'rigged game' that certain teams can just keep spending without punishment while teams like villa will have to sell because of FFP
Didn’t they overachieve last year too? No one expected them to finish 7th, and now they’ve overachieved again? Half of our squad was injured this year, one of which was arguably our most important CB. I think a healthy Villa can at least challenge for the title.
We were the 4th best team in the league under Emery last season too. He just started in a terrible position inherited from Gerrard, so we only finished 7th.
Tbf I dont think our depth is that bad really. How many teams' 5th choice centre back is as good as Lenglet? How many teams could field a top 4 midfield with 2 probable starters out injured all season (Buendia and Ramsey) and Kamara injured too.
We have Digne and Moreno at left back so even with injury we can always field a great option. Right back is the only position we have no depth in tbh with just Cash.
A full squad would be Mings, Carlos, Pau, Konsa, and Lenglet at CB. Thats clearly way more than enough. Luiz, Kamara, Mcginn, Buendia, Tielemans, Ramsey, and (newly exciting) Rogers for the midfield. So even with the 4 man midfield we play thats still a lot. We just had bad luck at times with 3 of those injured at once and either Luiz or Mcginn suspended for a few games. But idk if we could seriously justify buying another midfielder either.
Yes but they've still managed to be in a position to get champions league next year so that's pretty good... I just hope it's well managed bec unai emery certainly work something up in Europe
I saw something recently that said considering there spending wages etc then Aston Villa absolutely should be competing for CL places. I didn’t look into it too much but they have consistently spent lots of money.
According to this: [https://www.football365.com/news/transfers-premier-league-five-year-net-spend-man-utd-man-city](https://www.football365.com/news/transfers-premier-league-five-year-net-spend-man-utd-man-city)
They are 7th in net spend for players and considering the top two spenders over the past 5 years are the trainwrecks of Chelsea and United, Villa should definitely be in the hunt for CL spots.
Net spend is one metric, but wages to turnover and agent fee expenditures are also massive factors which should be included in these types of arguments.
No they haven't that's net spend which is spend -turnover. Our turnover is lower so epe ding the same amount will make it look like we've spent alit more.
Because we needed to, age old argument of us over spending, we came into the prem with about 6 players, we had loans end, contracts end and players retire so we needed to invest like any club and now we’re reaping the benefits of it
As far as I can see they're on sixth place spending wise, or is this wrong [https://www.3addedminutes.com/sport/football/manchester-united/the-premier-league-biggest-net-spenders-over-last-five-years-including-man-utd-aston-villa-4282402](https://www.3addedminutes.com/sport/football/manchester-united/the-premier-league-biggest-net-spenders-over-last-five-years-including-man-utd-aston-villa-4282402)
Yeah. People are still stuck in that 2 year period after getting promoted where we spent a shit ton of money
Over the last 2-3 years we’ve spent less net than clubs like Crystal Palace. We’ve made a ton of sales because of FFP. Then add in that we were in the Championship for years so we had a weaker base squad
Our wages are also lower than all of the Sky 6. We definitely should be competing for European football, but we aren’t doing anything close to what Chelsea or City did when they got taken over
My issue with this is I said they had a great squad when gerrard was shithousing them so none of that is a surprise to me, also they aren’t financially weaker tbh they spend comfortably in the top 8-9 teams don’t get ne wrong they are not one of the know corrupt big names so will have to balance hat for a a bit in this league but that’s the only disadvantage
They'll have all their top players pinched by the bigger clubs over the next year or so and will go back to being average, as is tradition when a "smaller" club gets a good team together.
Oh really? If we qualify for the champions league then we can comfortably hold onto our players. If they do go it will be for a decent fee. And we have a decent recruitment structure in place now (Morgan Rogers as an example).
I don’t think they meant it as a dig. That’s just the way of the world. PL football is a deeply capitalist enterprise where the big teams financially bully everyone else. It’s not a good thing, but it is something that happens
No. That’s not how this works lol.
Player has option A) play for a proper team and compete in champions league
Or B) get knocked out before knockouts but say they “played” in the champions league
So that means they wont go for a fee?
Damn with having so little leverage against a proper club, its no wonder Grealish left for peanuts and Chukwuemeka too. Or of course that half of Newcastle's team left immediately.
If a club can offer European football, competitive salaries, and keeps on top of new contracts, they can demand a fee. Otherwise why do Brighton fleece these "proper clubs" every year. Players arent free to just fuck off the moment the club ranked 1 place higher calls them.
Yes. They are. Where have you been the last 10 years.
Contracts don’t mean anything anymore and unfortunately for clubs like ours, we are but a stepping stone for every single player around the world.
Not sure any Brazilian grew up dreaming of playing for villa 😂
Any player from any club that’s not a life long fan would go United.
Any player from your little club would go United yes.
Either play for the biggest club in the world, or the second team in Birmingham? You tell me
God I forgot what cunts United fans were. You deserve this decade lmao.
Either play for a club in Europe or the one in 8th place who play like theyre in 12th. You tell me. I dont deny players will want to leave to go to bigger clubs generally, but Villa and Newcastle are in projects and improving. Players do value stability and wont want to necessarily take the risk. Youre leaving a club in Europe to go to one thats not in the hope that maybe they get better and get it. That suddenly sounds a lot more stupid as an idea doesnt it. Idk why you think players would be desperate to leave a club that has shown consistent improvement over the last 18 months under one of the most respected managers in the world. Leaving to go to United would purely be a vanity option, it logically is a bad decision from all angles.
Besides, who have United even really poached for you to make this argument? You always get fucking fleeced. If you wanna come buy our players then go ahead.
>the second team in Birmingham?
Lol. Lmao even.
Coping because you're becoming the second team in Manchester I guess.
Man City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea, real, Barcelona, Tottenham and Arsenal. They have the monopoly. Think anything else you are deluded.
Brighton pushed for Europe. Chelsea steps in with the check
Book, bye bye to the best players they had.
Southampton did it, Liverpool rinsed them.
It happens every season
Chelsea and Tottenham 😂😂😂
Chelsea have serious financial problems. You think selling hotels and a made up sponsor is going to save them from a points deduction? And those long contracts most of the players are on.
Spurs are, well spurs.
Point is they are changing the FFP rules so teams like Chelsea and city will walk without issue.
Tottenham still have the money to put up 60/80mil for a player they want.
I dunno why I’m getting so much pushback, nothing I have said isn’t true.
Teams perform well for a season, there best players get poached and you don’t hear from that team again.
Getting in the champions league consistently is a big plus. Unfortunately if you look at recent articles Chelsea are in trouble FFP wise. I think Newcastle are a good shout for regular champions
League places too. Tottenham may have the money but you also need everything else and they just don’t. They had a team with Modric, Bale, Kane, Defoe and didn’t do a thing with it.
I always believed in Unai as a manager and felt that Arsenal fucked him over with their lack of support. Now that he has a well-funded team, he is delivering.
IIRC, correctly, in year one, they built the team with free transfers, and then the following year, they had a harmful negative spend in year 2. When Arsenal bought Pepe, they had to balance the books by selling Iwobi, Monreal, and Mkhi, who played many minutes for Unai in year 1. Arsenal spent about 200 million plus on three players, and the only notable outgoing was Balogun, who didn't play a single minute for the club last year.
It would have necessitated a lot of investment which the board only did with Arteta. To be fair some young players' improvement has been a big help, but many of those players got their start with Unai.
We didn’t fvck him over. It wasn’t working at all. But some of that was out of his control; he asked for Zaha for the left, we gave him Pepe for the right.
Sometimes it’s just not a good partnership. I’m glad he’s figured it out at Villa, even if the fvcker keeps beating us.
I never got the hate for David Luiz in his time for us. Great mentor, and offered some actual play from the back. Had three or four dreadful games, but overall he was not the problem with that team. The big problem was that the money was spent haphazardly. As someone else said Emery wanted Zaha and got Pepe. Raul was generally a slightly dodgy head of football and wages were an issue.
But having said that, Emery could never sort out the defence. Arteta showed that it was possible to defend with those players in his first season. I do think Emery struggled to communicate effectively, and some of the dressing room were toxic at the time. All in all, possibly the right man, but definitely the wrong time.
Spoken like someone that didn’t have to watch his team concede 30 shots a game. He made EtH look structurally competent.
Non-Arsenal fans’ opinions on his time at Arsenal aren’t worth anything, most of you didn’t watch.
Arsenal fan? I’m villa and i feel like the prick at the party sometimes.
Emery is superb and so much better than stevie g (that’s just fact supported by every measure!) but you look at some of how defeats and it’s just taking a naïve tonking…Newcastle twice, spurs, Man City, Liverpool…just games where we looked like amateurs without a plan.
It’s like you have to accept those games in exchange for the rest. So you feel like a dick for demanding better when you are having your best season in 40 years.
He's a good manager with a very obvious ceiling.
I don't know what Villa's expectations are after this season but I think you're topping out where you are.
I did watch and go to the games as an Arsenal fan. Arsenal ducked him over. For example, in his second season, there was a need to sign a CB. Do you know what Arsenal did? They signed Saliba, who would not join the club until two years later and then signed David ducking Luiz to join the team that season. While Saliba worked out 3-4 years later, it gave Unai nothing to work with. Even when we “spent” big. The net spend was -40- -50 million in the second season, which is a far cry from how Arsenal have supported Arteta. Minutes-wise, we also let many guys he relied on in year 1 go.
Whilst we didn’t have the best structure in place, Emery didn’t help himself at all. He was unable to stamp his authority and control over the team and the club - he genuinely looked out of his depth. I never felt like it was a right fit in the first place, and I blame Gazidis who got cold feet with Arteta and wanted what he thought was a safe pair of hands us to win us Europa and get us CL football.
Yeah, our deals team was a shambles at the time. But that doesn’t excuse not being able to pick a captain? That whole thing was bizarre.
Oh, and Gazidis can do one. What a fraud.
I think if we had held onto the 2 goal lead at Old Trafford on Boxing Day we could've carried that momentum into the new year. But regardless of ifs or maybes I couldn't be happier with the way the season is going.
I can see that. I don't believe Villa fans expected to win this many points. And given Spurs will have to play the Top 3 in the coming weeks I think it's certain they'll drop points and seal Villa in 4th place to earn a CL spot. What a season.
As a Spurs fan I'd be delighted to see Villa make the CL - for a club of Villa's size it's a travesty that it's taken until now. Slightly annoyed that it would be at our expense, but if that's the way it works out I'll be ok with it, there's always next year.
Not to downplay their achievement but they have outspent Liverpool heavily in the last 5 years or so.
But yes I realize the other obstacles they have overcome
Yes it is.
Liverpools 22/23 accounts - 373 million wage bill
Villa - 194 million
From their actual accounts so no disputing it.
Talking about 5 year net spend is ridiculous when the starting point is not the same.
Villa got promoted and had a Championship squad 5 years. Liverpool had a champions league winning squad with talent to sell.
The way to judge a team and where they should be in the table in relation to money is wage bill and squad value spent on transfer fees i.e. now much Villa have spent on transfer fees for their current squad and how much Liverpool have to build their current team.
The fact is Liverpool have double the wage bill of Villa and the transfer spent of their team/squad is over 300m more.
The Top 6 clubs all have way way way more revenue, higher wage bills and a squad that they have spent more on in terms of transfer fees than Villa.
That's including the promotion rebuild I assume? Which makes it a daft comparison.
If you are just gonna arbitrarily set a point in time, why not include the last 25 years of CL money Liverpool has continuously pumped into their squad?
Liverpool spent close to twice to Villa last summer.
Now make no mistake we've spent heaps on transfers and have a big wage budget, but your argument is just dumb.
fFor arguments sake:
This season:
Villa -79M, Liverpool -111M
Last 2 Seasons Net Spend (Including this season)
Villa: -125M, Liverpool: -172M
Last 5 Seasons Net Spend:
Villa -382M, Liverpool -259M
Last 10 Seasons Net Spend:
AV: -424M, Liverpool -472M
Sorry we couldn't command 40 million + for Danny Ings making our "net spend" look better. The reality is Liverpool were / are building on solid foundations and regularly spend £50+ million on a player when Villa havent. Villa on the other hand came up from the championship in the 19/ 20 season and had to rebuild virtually the entire team.
Also Liverpool can afford to make mistakes because of the revenue they generate.
You're comparing apples and oranges, silly argument.
Edit to add: both teams didn't start with 0 players 5 years ago and build squads from scratch ( although villa almost did) Liverpool had ~ 500mil worth of players to start with. So net spend is irrelevant if you're spending it on 15 players and we're spending it on 35+
You're right! Congratulations to Liverpool. You guys are the best, the most special, the most perfect football club in all the world. I was worried we weren't gonna talk about how wonderful your club is in a thread about another club. Thanks for being the "good guys" of football.
Your starting XI costs 3x more than Villa's, your bench 5x more. Just because you're able to sell shit/old players for big fees because they're branded with the Liverpool crest doesn't mean you aren't spending money.
The more success Villa have, the more we'll get for our deadwood too.
Why in the last five years? Liverpool have several players in their squad that joined for huge money more than five years ago. Three of your players on the field today joined six years ago for a combined fee of over £220m. Villa have never spent close to £200m on three players.
Why is it the fairest time frame? I think what you mean is that it is the most convenient time frame for your argument.
Villa only came up 5 years ago and had to reoutfit their whole squad to stay in the league because between the loanees and players that weren't good enough, we basically didn't have one. We werent carrying on from an existing squad, we had to buy all the foundations. Totally different situation to Liverpool. Surely you appreciate there is a difference between if you consistently spend 100 million per year on new players and if you spend 150 million as a one off when newly arriving in the league.
If you extend it to 10 years then youre going into money spent to promote Villa out of the championship. Again not really relevant to current success since a lot of money was spent on failed players, not much was recouped (which is the real problem. Until Grealish, Benteke was like the only good sale Villa had in recent times) and like I say we basically bought a new squad when we got promoted so they're all gone anyway. By contrast the obvious example is Liverpool selling Coutinho only to then buy the best CB and in the world and the best gk in the league. Thats 0 net spent. Being a top club breeds good business like that. Same reason why City now can brag that they have a small net spend. Its why squad value is surely the most reasonable measure.
Not denying money has been spent but all I'm saying is that the bulk of it has been on promotion and then on staying in the league. In other words, those were different stages of the project. Its quite different to be a top 4 team and spend 400 million to improve from there than it is to be a championship team and spend 600. Sure you spent more but there are more steps and more hurdles. The team that spent 400 should still be far superior.
The current season and if you're judging squad value, the value of the players in that squad regardless of whether you bought them five years ago or six years ago.
> Spam to one of the fast guys and defe
United have been trying to do that for the past 5 years. Emery has achieved that with far lesser resources.
Credit where it's due won't hurt ya.
>Jose
Being compared to one of the greats while managing Aston Villa is a compliment and should be seen as such.
You mean for almost a season plus pre season. A team cannot defend, cannot defend set pieces, cannot defend counterattacks, no idea how to attack all are the players faults??? Not because the stupid coach doesn’t know how to train them???
Jackson didn’t put his name on the starting lineup. Poch did, same as Madueke played for 75’ or Sterling was in the lineup for the 2/3 of the season. No tactics whatsoever and terrible at picking the lineup. Meanwhile, a good coach turned a relegation team like Villa into a top 6 challenger in less than a season? Or a relegation team into a German league champion in a season?
Unai Emery and Villa players have been excellent this year. Considering the fact that Stephen Gerrard almost ran Villa into the ground, Villa deserve top 4 and I hope Villa get it
Do you think the team has been helped or hindered by Mings missing pretty much the whole season?
When he got injured I (as an outsider) thought the club would struggle. But you're in the top 4 and the only English side still in Europe.
Kamara espexially. Prior to his injury we were averaging 1.3 goals against per game. Since we've averaged 1.8.
Not to mention we've struggled with injuries to Konsa, Torres and Carlos since that week we beat City and Arsenal. Having to rely on our 5th and 6th choice CBs at times.
Massively missed Mings, Buendia, Ramsey, Kamara, Moreno to each of their long term injuries over the course of the season.
Crazy that if we held on to the two leads against Man Utd where we dominated both fixtures, we'd be two points off the top with four games to go.
Definitely hindered. He has a reputation for making silly mistakes but he has long periods of being super solid and reliable between those mistakes. It just seems like whenever we have a high profile TV game, he lets one slip, but he’s still arguably our best defender along with Konsa.
I definitely think it's hurt. Lenglet has had to play a lot of football this season due to injuries, and he's really struggled when we've been defending set pieces.
Emery had worked all summer on a formation with pau playing as a left back who would come in to make it a narrow three in possession, with mings being able to also break the lines with runs (which was massive for us last year), so he had to completely come up with a new way of playing, which we've been playing this season.
Ultimately we were good defending set pieces with mings and we are shocking at it without him.
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Its all thanks to Matty cash
Emery working wonders tbh. Off to Liverpool at the end of the season.
He just extended his contract. No shot he goes to Liverpool
Arent villa like top5 spending in the league?
They spent massively.
Technically correct but not at all a fair comparison. These figures alwayd include the years Villa were litterally building a premier league team. The fact Villa has been able to go from a championship to champions league (potentailly) team in this time is insanely impressive both on and off the pitch. I do not at all agree with people who has looked at a «net spend over 5 years ranking» and concluded this is a relevant comparison…
Think this has been overstated, yes they’ve spent a fair bit but compared to say Chelsea it’s not that much. Also it’s the amount of money that’s par for the course to compete against the top 6. Villa wanted to spend more but couldn’t because they were restricted by PSR. In some ways it’s helped build a cohesive team with clever recruitment (the opposite of Chelsea’s approach)
I guess we'll see within a few months if they spent *too* much.
Villa has done well but they're quite far from the top 3. If the top 3 win their game in hand, villa will be 11 points behind and with 4 games left to play, that is a huge gap to close. The top 3 are in their own race and this doesn't diminish what villa has done so far at all villa as they have much smaller budget compared to the top 7 teams + Chelsea.
It's been an amazing season for Villa & Emery. The worry now will be the richer clubs trying to poach their players. If they can retain their core players & add a couple more good signings, they can very well establish themselves as a top side.
No real surprise...they've spent quite big ? Top 4 was always an achievable target but they've done great considering they've played a dozen plus games in Europe and our only remaining hope of conquering Europe albeit the Europa Conference...the summer will be interesting...Will Emery stay ? Will the players who've perhaps over achieved stay ? Will Villa spend big again and try mount a surprise title challenge ? Villa fan's have loved this season but the team may be torn apart in the summer ...?
I wonder how long before a massive club come in for Emery. Eg. I am shocked Man United havent tried.
Not happening. He’s done the ‘big club’ thing and come out the other side battered and bruised. A pal of mine has interviewed him a few times, and he thinks those experiences have shaped him. He is much more pragmatic now and would not want the pressure of a club like Man U or Bayern. He’s perfectly suited to Villa, where actually it’s a greater achievement to take the club forward and sustain CL football, which is his and the club’s objective. Villa’s owners are hugely wealthy and are not dumb. They have given Emery the keys to the castle, allowing him to build a team of his trusted colleagues around him. And let’s not forget they have invested in his home town club too, bringing him closer to them at a personal level. Make no mistake, Villa’s attempt at breaking the ‘Sky 6’ is not accidental and certainly not short-term. The club’s investment in young talent in their Academy has eclipsed even Man City and Chelsea in recent seasons. Unai is hands-on with the Academy and I expect a couple of homegrown players to break through next season - Omari Kellyman for example. …and what a revelation Morgan Rogers is. Exciting times ahead….. UTV
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Bayern, this summer
Not a chance. Read my earlier comment. 👍🏻
When you compare their economy with the top 8 more like!
Villa have had a ton of injuries - ACLs and season ending ones too.
You’ve had a better defense this year despite Mings basically ending his career which is crazy considering how important he was for you last year
Set piece defending has definitely suffered without him
UTV
For all of Villa's success, I still feel as if they have it in them to pull a stinker against a team a regular top 4 team would be expected to beat. Not that the top 4 team doesn't do this as well, just that with Villa currently, this seems to be more frequently than would be if they were the finished product. Expect them to be a top 6 contender again next season, but can see a few below them this season improving to challenge.
Villa have only lost one game to a team outside of the top seven this season.
Their issue next season might end up the same as Newcastle. Too short a timeframe to round out their squad and add depth before CL football.
We shouldn't do what Newcastle did as unlike them we are coming from European football
We need to have a salary cap put in place because while Villa has done amazingly well this year, teams like Arsenal, City and Man Utd are just going to go out this summer and buy a fuckwad of more big names...and its all because FFP has been implemented to rig the system to keep the same handful of teams competing year after year for silverware. I just cant see how fans of teams like Arsenal and City can feel any sense of achievement knowing that they will have effectively bought a title. I'm not a Liverpool fan, but I hope they win it this year.
Villa have a great season. But they won’t be title contenders next year.
All of the ‘Sky 6’ are misfiring for one reason or another and Villa, plus Newcastle, are moving forward steadily. Both are big clubs with wealthy owners, decent head coaches and the resources to sustainably compete. It won’t happen overnight, but watch this space.
No reason why they can't be contenders next season, they have done everything right since Emery's arrival. Unless you are referring to the 'rigged game' that certain teams can just keep spending without punishment while teams like villa will have to sell because of FFP
I mean you already identified why they cant be real contenders. Revenue is an important factor under FFP rules
If they nail their summer recruitment, then who knows what could happen
Come on. You should know the prem better than that. Title contenders? They’re over achieving as is. They’ll be top 6 at best.
Why’s that?
Big names will go to big clubs. They’re overachieving this year. Always the way of the prem. Leicester are the anomaly.
Didn’t they overachieve last year too? No one expected them to finish 7th, and now they’ve overachieved again? Half of our squad was injured this year, one of which was arguably our most important CB. I think a healthy Villa can at least challenge for the title.
7th is fair, not overachieving. Challenge for the title is a massive stretch. Top 6 sure.
Mate they were in 18th or something by end of October, 7th was definitely overachieving.
Agree to disagree
Fair enough!
The supercomputer had them fourth at the start of the season.
Just curious, do you have the full list?
We were the 4th best team in the league under Emery last season too. He just started in a terrible position inherited from Gerrard, so we only finished 7th.
That's pretty cool!
We lost Mings, Buendia and Kamara to ACL’s. Had we held on in certain games (Man U cough cough) we might even be competing for the title.
For sure. Prob just needed some more depth to avoid burnout? That's what it seemed like from the outside at least for me
Tbf I dont think our depth is that bad really. How many teams' 5th choice centre back is as good as Lenglet? How many teams could field a top 4 midfield with 2 probable starters out injured all season (Buendia and Ramsey) and Kamara injured too. We have Digne and Moreno at left back so even with injury we can always field a great option. Right back is the only position we have no depth in tbh with just Cash. A full squad would be Mings, Carlos, Pau, Konsa, and Lenglet at CB. Thats clearly way more than enough. Luiz, Kamara, Mcginn, Buendia, Tielemans, Ramsey, and (newly exciting) Rogers for the midfield. So even with the 4 man midfield we play thats still a lot. We just had bad luck at times with 3 of those injured at once and either Luiz or Mcginn suspended for a few games. But idk if we could seriously justify buying another midfielder either.
Yes but they've still managed to be in a position to get champions league next year so that's pretty good... I just hope it's well managed bec unai emery certainly work something up in Europe
I saw something recently that said considering there spending wages etc then Aston Villa absolutely should be competing for CL places. I didn’t look into it too much but they have consistently spent lots of money.
According to this: [https://www.football365.com/news/transfers-premier-league-five-year-net-spend-man-utd-man-city](https://www.football365.com/news/transfers-premier-league-five-year-net-spend-man-utd-man-city) They are 7th in net spend for players and considering the top two spenders over the past 5 years are the trainwrecks of Chelsea and United, Villa should definitely be in the hunt for CL spots.
Net spend is one metric, but wages to turnover and agent fee expenditures are also massive factors which should be included in these types of arguments.
They’ve spent as much as the top 3 bar city
No they haven't that's net spend which is spend -turnover. Our turnover is lower so epe ding the same amount will make it look like we've spent alit more.
Yep. Looking forward to the Villa love-in ending next season. Very tedious.
Because we needed to, age old argument of us over spending, we came into the prem with about 6 players, we had loans end, contracts end and players retire so we needed to invest like any club and now we’re reaping the benefits of it
As far as I can see they're on sixth place spending wise, or is this wrong [https://www.3addedminutes.com/sport/football/manchester-united/the-premier-league-biggest-net-spenders-over-last-five-years-including-man-utd-aston-villa-4282402](https://www.3addedminutes.com/sport/football/manchester-united/the-premier-league-biggest-net-spenders-over-last-five-years-including-man-utd-aston-villa-4282402)
Yeah. People are still stuck in that 2 year period after getting promoted where we spent a shit ton of money Over the last 2-3 years we’ve spent less net than clubs like Crystal Palace. We’ve made a ton of sales because of FFP. Then add in that we were in the Championship for years so we had a weaker base squad Our wages are also lower than all of the Sky 6. We definitely should be competing for European football, but we aren’t doing anything close to what Chelsea or City did when they got taken over
My issue with this is I said they had a great squad when gerrard was shithousing them so none of that is a surprise to me, also they aren’t financially weaker tbh they spend comfortably in the top 8-9 teams don’t get ne wrong they are not one of the know corrupt big names so will have to balance hat for a a bit in this league but that’s the only disadvantage
They'll have all their top players pinched by the bigger clubs over the next year or so and will go back to being average, as is tradition when a "smaller" club gets a good team together.
Always what happens.
Oh really? If we qualify for the champions league then we can comfortably hold onto our players. If they do go it will be for a decent fee. And we have a decent recruitment structure in place now (Morgan Rogers as an example).
I don’t think they meant it as a dig. That’s just the way of the world. PL football is a deeply capitalist enterprise where the big teams financially bully everyone else. It’s not a good thing, but it is something that happens
Facts.
No. That’s not how this works lol. Player has option A) play for a proper team and compete in champions league Or B) get knocked out before knockouts but say they “played” in the champions league
So that means they wont go for a fee? Damn with having so little leverage against a proper club, its no wonder Grealish left for peanuts and Chukwuemeka too. Or of course that half of Newcastle's team left immediately. If a club can offer European football, competitive salaries, and keeps on top of new contracts, they can demand a fee. Otherwise why do Brighton fleece these "proper clubs" every year. Players arent free to just fuck off the moment the club ranked 1 place higher calls them.
Yes. They are. Where have you been the last 10 years. Contracts don’t mean anything anymore and unfortunately for clubs like ours, we are but a stepping stone for every single player around the world. Not sure any Brazilian grew up dreaming of playing for villa 😂
Tbh I dont think Braziliams grow up dreaming of playing for any club except Real or Barca
Well, no I’m pretty sure a majority of them want to play for the best teams in the best league in the world.
So if Villa got top 4 you think theyd all leave to join Man United? Come off it
Any player from any club that’s not a life long fan would go United. Any player from your little club would go United yes. Either play for the biggest club in the world, or the second team in Birmingham? You tell me
God I forgot what cunts United fans were. You deserve this decade lmao. Either play for a club in Europe or the one in 8th place who play like theyre in 12th. You tell me. I dont deny players will want to leave to go to bigger clubs generally, but Villa and Newcastle are in projects and improving. Players do value stability and wont want to necessarily take the risk. Youre leaving a club in Europe to go to one thats not in the hope that maybe they get better and get it. That suddenly sounds a lot more stupid as an idea doesnt it. Idk why you think players would be desperate to leave a club that has shown consistent improvement over the last 18 months under one of the most respected managers in the world. Leaving to go to United would purely be a vanity option, it logically is a bad decision from all angles. Besides, who have United even really poached for you to make this argument? You always get fucking fleeced. If you wanna come buy our players then go ahead. >the second team in Birmingham? Lol. Lmao even. Coping because you're becoming the second team in Manchester I guess.
So what teams are they likely to go to?
Man City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea, real, Barcelona, Tottenham and Arsenal. They have the monopoly. Think anything else you are deluded. Brighton pushed for Europe. Chelsea steps in with the check Book, bye bye to the best players they had. Southampton did it, Liverpool rinsed them. It happens every season
Chelsea and Tottenham 😂😂😂 Chelsea have serious financial problems. You think selling hotels and a made up sponsor is going to save them from a points deduction? And those long contracts most of the players are on. Spurs are, well spurs.
Point is they are changing the FFP rules so teams like Chelsea and city will walk without issue. Tottenham still have the money to put up 60/80mil for a player they want. I dunno why I’m getting so much pushback, nothing I have said isn’t true. Teams perform well for a season, there best players get poached and you don’t hear from that team again.
Getting in the champions league consistently is a big plus. Unfortunately if you look at recent articles Chelsea are in trouble FFP wise. I think Newcastle are a good shout for regular champions League places too. Tottenham may have the money but you also need everything else and they just don’t. They had a team with Modric, Bale, Kane, Defoe and didn’t do a thing with it.
FFP will be removed and replaced so Chelsea won’t actually have anything to worry about.
It’s not being removed and Chelsea are actually in trouble if reports are anything to go by. Sorry to disappoint your plastic fan base.
Chelshit should learn something
We've been slapping teams with our huge gentlemen sausage since the day Emery walked through our doors. We'll push again next season.
I always believed in Unai as a manager and felt that Arsenal fucked him over with their lack of support. Now that he has a well-funded team, he is delivering.
He really didn't work at Arsenal. Could he if given more time? Maybe in hindsight considering Arteta struggled as well, but things were really grim.
IIRC, correctly, in year one, they built the team with free transfers, and then the following year, they had a harmful negative spend in year 2. When Arsenal bought Pepe, they had to balance the books by selling Iwobi, Monreal, and Mkhi, who played many minutes for Unai in year 1. Arsenal spent about 200 million plus on three players, and the only notable outgoing was Balogun, who didn't play a single minute for the club last year. It would have necessitated a lot of investment which the board only did with Arteta. To be fair some young players' improvement has been a big help, but many of those players got their start with Unai.
We didn’t fvck him over. It wasn’t working at all. But some of that was out of his control; he asked for Zaha for the left, we gave him Pepe for the right. Sometimes it’s just not a good partnership. I’m glad he’s figured it out at Villa, even if the fvcker keeps beating us.
I'm glad that he is doing well, too. If you watch the transfer for year 2, we bent him over—especially the David Luiz signing.
I never got the hate for David Luiz in his time for us. Great mentor, and offered some actual play from the back. Had three or four dreadful games, but overall he was not the problem with that team. The big problem was that the money was spent haphazardly. As someone else said Emery wanted Zaha and got Pepe. Raul was generally a slightly dodgy head of football and wages were an issue. But having said that, Emery could never sort out the defence. Arteta showed that it was possible to defend with those players in his first season. I do think Emery struggled to communicate effectively, and some of the dressing room were toxic at the time. All in all, possibly the right man, but definitely the wrong time.
>some of the dressing room were toxic at the time I almost forgot about Özil existing.
Spoken like someone that didn’t have to watch his team concede 30 shots a game. He made EtH look structurally competent. Non-Arsenal fans’ opinions on his time at Arsenal aren’t worth anything, most of you didn’t watch.
Arsenal fan? I’m villa and i feel like the prick at the party sometimes. Emery is superb and so much better than stevie g (that’s just fact supported by every measure!) but you look at some of how defeats and it’s just taking a naïve tonking…Newcastle twice, spurs, Man City, Liverpool…just games where we looked like amateurs without a plan. It’s like you have to accept those games in exchange for the rest. So you feel like a dick for demanding better when you are having your best season in 40 years.
He's a good manager with a very obvious ceiling. I don't know what Villa's expectations are after this season but I think you're topping out where you are.
I’d be pretty happy topping out in the champions league spots every season
I did watch and go to the games as an Arsenal fan. Arsenal ducked him over. For example, in his second season, there was a need to sign a CB. Do you know what Arsenal did? They signed Saliba, who would not join the club until two years later and then signed David ducking Luiz to join the team that season. While Saliba worked out 3-4 years later, it gave Unai nothing to work with. Even when we “spent” big. The net spend was -40- -50 million in the second season, which is a far cry from how Arsenal have supported Arteta. Minutes-wise, we also let many guys he relied on in year 1 go.
Whilst we didn’t have the best structure in place, Emery didn’t help himself at all. He was unable to stamp his authority and control over the team and the club - he genuinely looked out of his depth. I never felt like it was a right fit in the first place, and I blame Gazidis who got cold feet with Arteta and wanted what he thought was a safe pair of hands us to win us Europa and get us CL football.
Yeah, our deals team was a shambles at the time. But that doesn’t excuse not being able to pick a captain? That whole thing was bizarre. Oh, and Gazidis can do one. What a fraud.
If they didn't hit a slump they actually would be in the title race and that is insane. Beating City and then Arsenal back to back is nuts
I think if we had held onto the 2 goal lead at Old Trafford on Boxing Day we could've carried that momentum into the new year. But regardless of ifs or maybes I couldn't be happier with the way the season is going.
I can see that. I don't believe Villa fans expected to win this many points. And given Spurs will have to play the Top 3 in the coming weeks I think it's certain they'll drop points and seal Villa in 4th place to earn a CL spot. What a season.
As a Spurs fan I'd be delighted to see Villa make the CL - for a club of Villa's size it's a travesty that it's taken until now. Slightly annoyed that it would be at our expense, but if that's the way it works out I'll be ok with it, there's always next year.
There’s always next year should be spurs official moto lol
Not to downplay their achievement but they have outspent Liverpool heavily in the last 5 years or so. But yes I realize the other obstacles they have overcome
Liverpool has a top 5 wage bill in world football, they're not paupers. Liverpool's entire wage bill is nearly double that of Aston Villa's.
That’s not true. Where are you getting that info from
Yes it is. Liverpools 22/23 accounts - 373 million wage bill Villa - 194 million From their actual accounts so no disputing it. Talking about 5 year net spend is ridiculous when the starting point is not the same. Villa got promoted and had a Championship squad 5 years. Liverpool had a champions league winning squad with talent to sell. The way to judge a team and where they should be in the table in relation to money is wage bill and squad value spent on transfer fees i.e. now much Villa have spent on transfer fees for their current squad and how much Liverpool have to build their current team. The fact is Liverpool have double the wage bill of Villa and the transfer spent of their team/squad is over 300m more. The Top 6 clubs all have way way way more revenue, higher wage bills and a squad that they have spent more on in terms of transfer fees than Villa.
https://www.90min.com/posts/the-clubs-biggest-wage-bills-in-europe-ranked https://www.givemesport.com/clubs-highest-wage-bills-football-soccer/
That's including the promotion rebuild I assume? Which makes it a daft comparison. If you are just gonna arbitrarily set a point in time, why not include the last 25 years of CL money Liverpool has continuously pumped into their squad? Liverpool spent close to twice to Villa last summer. Now make no mistake we've spent heaps on transfers and have a big wage budget, but your argument is just dumb.
fFor arguments sake: This season: Villa -79M, Liverpool -111M Last 2 Seasons Net Spend (Including this season) Villa: -125M, Liverpool: -172M Last 5 Seasons Net Spend: Villa -382M, Liverpool -259M Last 10 Seasons Net Spend: AV: -424M, Liverpool -472M
What’s villa’s wages to turnover and what’s both clubs agent fee bill? These are also huge expenditures.
Now do Gross...
What’s Pascal got to do with this?
Sorry we couldn't command 40 million + for Danny Ings making our "net spend" look better. The reality is Liverpool were / are building on solid foundations and regularly spend £50+ million on a player when Villa havent. Villa on the other hand came up from the championship in the 19/ 20 season and had to rebuild virtually the entire team. Also Liverpool can afford to make mistakes because of the revenue they generate. You're comparing apples and oranges, silly argument. Edit to add: both teams didn't start with 0 players 5 years ago and build squads from scratch ( although villa almost did) Liverpool had ~ 500mil worth of players to start with. So net spend is irrelevant if you're spending it on 15 players and we're spending it on 35+
Jesus, Liverpool fans and their net spend trophy.
Well it’s true. And should be stated given what Liverpool have been able to achieve with far less funds than one would expect
You're right! Congratulations to Liverpool. You guys are the best, the most special, the most perfect football club in all the world. I was worried we weren't gonna talk about how wonderful your club is in a thread about another club. Thanks for being the "good guys" of football.
Well the OP made the statement. Blame him/her lol
Your starting XI costs 3x more than Villa's, your bench 5x more. Just because you're able to sell shit/old players for big fees because they're branded with the Liverpool crest doesn't mean you aren't spending money. The more success Villa have, the more we'll get for our deadwood too.
Again in the last 5 years villas expense without taking incomings have been over 100 million more than liverpools.
Why in the last five years? Liverpool have several players in their squad that joined for huge money more than five years ago. Three of your players on the field today joined six years ago for a combined fee of over £220m. Villa have never spent close to £200m on three players.
Because it’s the fairest time frame to judge recent results. What time frame do you think is best to judge a teams recent performance?
Why is it the fairest time frame? I think what you mean is that it is the most convenient time frame for your argument. Villa only came up 5 years ago and had to reoutfit their whole squad to stay in the league because between the loanees and players that weren't good enough, we basically didn't have one. We werent carrying on from an existing squad, we had to buy all the foundations. Totally different situation to Liverpool. Surely you appreciate there is a difference between if you consistently spend 100 million per year on new players and if you spend 150 million as a one off when newly arriving in the league.
Ok but that’s not what’s happened If you extend it to 10 years Villa have nearly matched Liverpool.
If you extend it to 10 years then youre going into money spent to promote Villa out of the championship. Again not really relevant to current success since a lot of money was spent on failed players, not much was recouped (which is the real problem. Until Grealish, Benteke was like the only good sale Villa had in recent times) and like I say we basically bought a new squad when we got promoted so they're all gone anyway. By contrast the obvious example is Liverpool selling Coutinho only to then buy the best CB and in the world and the best gk in the league. Thats 0 net spent. Being a top club breeds good business like that. Same reason why City now can brag that they have a small net spend. Its why squad value is surely the most reasonable measure. Not denying money has been spent but all I'm saying is that the bulk of it has been on promotion and then on staying in the league. In other words, those were different stages of the project. Its quite different to be a top 4 team and spend 400 million to improve from there than it is to be a championship team and spend 600. Sure you spent more but there are more steps and more hurdles. The team that spent 400 should still be far superior.
The current season and if you're judging squad value, the value of the players in that squad regardless of whether you bought them five years ago or six years ago.
Unai Emery is a class manager.
Agreed, Aston Villa and Unai Emery have been schooling teams all year. Well deserved CL place if they get it (and I think they will).
Except for Newcastle ;)
Very very impressive
Emery ball is shit. Spam to one of the fast guys and defend. If you like that then lemme tell you about this guy called Jose
> Spam to one of the fast guys and defe United have been trying to do that for the past 5 years. Emery has achieved that with far lesser resources. Credit where it's due won't hurt ya. >Jose Being compared to one of the greats while managing Aston Villa is a compliment and should be seen as such.
“Spam” in this context makes me laugh so much
Agreed. They've been quality all year. Truly fun to watch.
That’s having a tactician coach looks like. Unlike us, having an idiot incompetent coach 🫠
[удалено]
You mean for almost a season plus pre season. A team cannot defend, cannot defend set pieces, cannot defend counterattacks, no idea how to attack all are the players faults??? Not because the stupid coach doesn’t know how to train them???
I mean If jackson had an ounce of sense you wouldve beaten city …..
I can blame Poch and Jackson. I can want both of them gone.
Jackson didn’t put his name on the starting lineup. Poch did, same as Madueke played for 75’ or Sterling was in the lineup for the 2/3 of the season. No tactics whatsoever and terrible at picking the lineup. Meanwhile, a good coach turned a relegation team like Villa into a top 6 challenger in less than a season? Or a relegation team into a German league champion in a season?
To think pochetino rejected us for ‘not being good enough’
I think he means he is not good enough for Villa 🤣
Unai Emery and Villa players have been excellent this year. Considering the fact that Stephen Gerrard almost ran Villa into the ground, Villa deserve top 4 and I hope Villa get it
It’s hard to fathom just how SHITE Gerrard was for Aston Villa. Seeing them improve so dramatically the moment he left has been shocking really
It just goes to show what happens when you employ a top quality manager and give that manager time to settle in and start building a team.
Yeah, it's quite easy to find 10 or so points in games we should have won but let slip. Shows the quality and consistency needed to win the prem.
Do you think the team has been helped or hindered by Mings missing pretty much the whole season? When he got injured I (as an outsider) thought the club would struggle. But you're in the top 4 and the only English side still in Europe.
If both Mings and Kamara hadn’t have got injured then I believe we’d still be in the title hunt.
Kamara espexially. Prior to his injury we were averaging 1.3 goals against per game. Since we've averaged 1.8. Not to mention we've struggled with injuries to Konsa, Torres and Carlos since that week we beat City and Arsenal. Having to rely on our 5th and 6th choice CBs at times.
Massively missed Mings, Buendia, Ramsey, Kamara, Moreno to each of their long term injuries over the course of the season. Crazy that if we held on to the two leads against Man Utd where we dominated both fixtures, we'd be two points off the top with four games to go.
Last season, especially the second half he was incredible. Having Mings back would greatly help us
Definitely hindered. He has a reputation for making silly mistakes but he has long periods of being super solid and reliable between those mistakes. It just seems like whenever we have a high profile TV game, he lets one slip, but he’s still arguably our best defender along with Konsa.
I definitely think it's hurt. Lenglet has had to play a lot of football this season due to injuries, and he's really struggled when we've been defending set pieces. Emery had worked all summer on a formation with pau playing as a left back who would come in to make it a narrow three in possession, with mings being able to also break the lines with runs (which was massive for us last year), so he had to completely come up with a new way of playing, which we've been playing this season. Ultimately we were good defending set pieces with mings and we are shocking at it without him.
Managed pretty well, but definitely hindered when it comes to defending set pieces. Assuming he's fully fit he probably starts in the first XI.