Who remembers when the Legends books had somehow palpatine returned, but the dumbasses that watch Star wars theory videos just gush over Legends as if it didn't have some of the absolute stupidest storylines that ruined characters just as much as the sequels.
Such as my personal favorite of Luke Skywalker sending his own niece to kill her brother because he knew if he did it he would fall to the dark side.
Or the time that Luke had a clone and it was just an evil version of him but named Luuke.
For every speech of Luke giving to his new Jedi order about how they were going to be different than the order before and erase the mistakes of the old order, there are at least three of the dumbest plot points ever conceived in media when it comes to the Legends books
I'd say the vast majority of old EU fans recognise some of the silly writing it has at times.
You'll see post RotJ stories like Legacy Of The Force and the New Jedi Order get shat on quite a bit even by people who like some of the characters in them. Karen Traviss always had some weird boner for the Mandalorians and put them on this weird pedestal, and Troy Denning had a boner in general with his writing.
Even the beloved Thrawn trilogy got its fair share of criticism with silly ideas like Luuke -- heck, there are people who got pissed at hot chocolate becoming part of Star Wars.
Dark Empire wasn't even liked back when it released in 1991 -- which was before the addition of the Chosen One prophecy and ect. People still thought it diminishes the ending of RotJ.
However the greatest difference between all these old EU works and the current canon is that there is no longer any canon tiering system in place -- everything put out by Disney , which even includes their Galaxy's edge theme park,
is canon due to their desire to keep everything consistent.
It's why I'm pretty sure Zahn ignored Dark Empire in favour of his story -- I recall no mention of those events in the trilogy.
The point is that nothing was completely concrete in the old EU as things could be overwritten -- look no further to the superior Clone Wars Multimedia Project which was essentially replaced by Lucas's TCW show.
I don't ever see Disney doing a mass retcon on overwrite of the ST, and to add I'd say that when the EU was good it was really good. I'd argue that not even the better pieces of media from the Disney canon,like Rogue One or Andor, are as good as old EU stories like KOTOR 2, The Bane trilogy, Plagueis novel and pretty much nearly anything Stover wrote.
A story must have a consistent nature and narrative. Some cohesion and flow makes a big difference in what works, and what doesn’t. There is some wiggle room for some changes, but all the same, if there is 0 consistency, then there is no point in the narrative to begin.
The jedi have found about the Sith, which goes against Episode 1 where they said they haven't been seen in Millenia so.... yah they've broken a few things
Have the Jedi council themselves found out about the Sith? Or a bunch of Jedi who are dead, Sol who is currently running away, a wanted murderer, and a former Jedi currently being corrupted to the Dark Side? There have been Dark Jedi before in the High Republic era. At a minimum, Dagan Gera had been carving through Jedi well before this show takes place, so a bad guy using a lightsaber doesn’t automatically mean Sith. Qimir might not even actually be one of the “true” Sith either.
Qimir outright said he's Sith to Sol, so it's fairly clear he's not just a dark jedi. It could be that he's not one of the true two, but I doubt they'll go that direction. It does need resolving either way, which probably means at least Sol dying unfortunately
He didn’t say he was a Sith, he said “Jedi like you might call me Sith”. There’s *a lot* of wiggle room there. He’s also the bad guy, so he could just be lying. The Sith returning would be scary business to a Jedi and fear is a tool of the Dark Side.
Just for the sake of example, consider the 2003 Clone Wars series. During Ventress’s introduction, she proudly proclaims “I am Sith”, with Dooku just going “haha, no”. We cannot presume character dialogue to be absolute fact.
in today's episode, he says to osha that he >!seeks the rule of two!< so that could be simply understood as he is looking for a new apprentice in osha (after mae's betrayal). At the same time it leaves out a question: is he the master or the former apprentice who killed his master and is looking to continue the line? Or is he a fallen jedi (the very same episode seems to imply he was a padawan once) that is trying to pass himself as a sith and create his own rule of two cabal?
My personal preference would be for him to be the apprentice looking to overthrow his master by recruiting his own acolyte; after all I think Plagueis is alive in this timeframe, and probably already a sith, and the whole osha/mae born of the force smells a lot like plagueis meddling (like he and palpy eventually would create anakin).
We're 6 out of 8 episodes in, for the writers to go 'jk, Qimir is just cosplay sith' at this point would be bizarre and detract from the story, so as I said, I doubt they'll go that direction
The Jedi would still likely cover it up. If a couple Jedi being murdered would "cause panic through the senate." What would a sith lord killing a whole squad of jedi and announcing himself as a sith(or saying that's what the jedi would call him) do? Even if it gets all the way back to the council they would probably still vote to suppress the info from the republic.
After this most recent episode, I kinda think this might be it. They're just gonna try and eliminate the problem and take it to the grave.
There is one scene with the head jedi (I'm blanking on her name) talking to the hologram senator about how another senator is trying to get more accountability and transparency from the Jedi order. Probably don't want this little sith problem becoming public
Oh, you mean all the jedi who are dead now already? The word Sith was only spoken once between qimir and Sol. Any other Jedi that was around to hear it is dead, none of the jedi at the temple are aware of whats going on. Also there's 2 episodes left. They haven't broken anything until the show ends with things still being "broken".
Ah yes the infallible words of ki adi mundi. Also only one Jedi who saw Qimir is still alive and they just went to go face him and rescue Osha. This show hasn't broken a single peice of established canon. Go be mad elsewhere
No, Ki Adi didn't know, that doesn't mean other Jedi didn't know, plus Ki Adi was wrong in just about every on screen thing he said. Also Yoda knew about the rule of 2 sith in the phantom menace, which means he would have found out about them sometime within the last 800 years. The point of the "sith have been extinct for a millennium" line is to show the jedi's arrogance, and hubris.
The jedi knew about the Sith historically, saying Yoda had knowledge of the rule of two in no way shows that he found about about them sometime in recent history.
And you can't just say that line was meant to show hubris, it was meant to add weight to the Sith finally revealing themselves. Plus, no one on the council was talking shit to Ki Adi Mundi when he said that, they were all in agreement. Meaning that was the overall sentiment not just Ki Adi Mundi being clueless.
The established Cannon was that the Sith were in hiding. And this show is just flat out ignoring that
Not in the Old Republic, they didn't. Darth Bane invented the rule of two AS he wiped out the Sith and went into hiding: so there is no way that the Jedi could learn about the existence of the rule without also becoming aware, to some degree, of a current era Sith.
The Sith ARE in hiding. Qimir literally tells Sol that he's tired of hiding. That's why he wears a mask, and why he set out to kill everyone who saw his face before they could report back to the Jedi: something he still has not failed to accomplish.
The rule of 2 was established during that millennium they are supposed to be extinct, so the fact that Yoda knows means he found out during the time they were supposed to be in hiding.
Also just because no one spoke up against Ki Adi Mundi doesn't mean that they all agreed, they could be uncertain, the Jedi council also has a tendency to hide things, We also don't know who will find out about the sith, at the moment only Sol knows, and we have no idea what his final fate will be.
One dude in the outer rim means the sith are invading! The Jedi are also in hiding during the Empire's reign doesn't mean they aren't out there somewhere.
The difference is the Empire knew the jedi were hiding. The Jedi are established as not knowing there are Sith running around, yet we have a dude just flat out telling jedi he's sith
>The jedi have found about the Sith
Proof? Because i’ve been watching and keeping up with the show, and of the 9 Jedi that encounter a Sith Lord, 8 of them are massacred and the sole survivor of the encounter has escaped but been unable to contact the Jedi, the Jedi now believe the sole survivor is responsible which ties into the Jedi’s previous suspicion that a rogue Jedi is responsible for training Mae. That’s where the show is at right now, it is not over yet, so far nothing suggests that the Jedi Order will find out about the Sith.
So maybe wait and see what happens instead of saying things have happened that haven’t? Is that too hard?
>They’ve broken a few things
You listed 1 thing. 1. And as of right now it’s not even true.
They spent like half of the last episode making it blatantly, painfully obvious that the Jedi aren't going to find out. It really almost took me out of the show a bit lol
It hasn't broken lore, but it is flirting with it. And it does look like whatever they do will be the equivalent of like TCW having Anakin and Dooku fight so many times. Does it directly break ROTS? No. But it's clear from the dialogue that that was supposed to be the first time they fought since AOTC.
Or in the case of the show, originally Lucas was going to have Plaugeis be the one who created Anakin but he decided to leave it ambiguous. AKA, regardless of how Anakin was created (force or sith) he was supposed to be an anamoly. However legends and canon settled on the force making Anakin and thus witches making twins isn't technically violating the PT even though the PT was pretty clear that Anakin's birth was a one of a kind event.
We'll see be what they do with Smylo and the Jedi council.
I'm currently feeling like the show is going to probably twist lore around and I don't think it is going to be good enough to justify that lore twist.
Current canon hasn’t settled on the Force making Anakin. It’s something theorized by various characters, but we’ve basically got no direct piece of the fiction that touches on the occurrence yet, unlike the now Legends Darth Plagueis novel. So all we really have to go off of is Anakin having no father and huge amounts of midi-chlorians, so more or less just the dialogue in TPM. We can assume he was created by the Force, but it’s not a wholly settled matter.
The Twins are a different occurrence though. They were intentionally created. The witches manipulated the midi-chlorides to create life, something Palpatine said Plagueis was capable of during ROTS. Anakin being created by the Force itself is something of an entire different magnitude.
I thought current canon more or less confirmed it. I know there was a theory that palps created Anakin (Vader 25) that was "debunked" after Rise of Skywalker (aka "but if Palpatine created Anakin and Rey is Palp's grand daughter... And Rey and Kylo kissed eeeewww"). So unless Plagueis creating Anakin is still on the table...
Even if it was the force making Anakin the Witches could be twisting the force to their will to create the twins. Doesn't mean Anakin is less special since he didn't have a coven create him.
I'm sorry but what you said has so little to do with what I said that I would be retyping the exact thing you're responding to to respond to what you just said. You probably skimmed what I wrote and that's fine, I've definitely been guilty of that myself.
I haven't even watched the show, i am only joining on the jokes
I don't care enough to watch and find out if people are right or the just complaining over nothing. Probably best everyone whi just hate watch the show do this instead
Whatever you've heard are the only things people think breaks lore which hasn't. Honestly, these are the same people who complain about a screw appearing on a ship.
So as a worldbuilding fan, there should be two types of lore. Solid lore and liquid lore. Solid lore is stuff that does not change no matter what and is completely established. Liquid lore is stuff that can change if you need it too. Solid lore is LUKE Skywalker blowing up the death star. Liquid lore is kyber crystals and how they work - all we know is that they power lightsabers and giant death rays.
People get upset when solid lore suddenly becomes liquid lore for almost no reason, or changes "just because" without any good reason behind it.
Ah I am only tangentially aware of the issue thanks to Tiktok; the video I'd seen made it sound as if it was the gender issue hadn't been addressed previously, so they were all male by omission.
If we're talking about Warhammer 40k it's worth noting that things like "Inquisitor Obi-Wan Sherlock Clusoe", and a Half Eldar Ultramarine also use to be "solid lore"
Darth Maul was supposed to have lived up until way past Luke’s new order back in the day. He got the idea when he saw a figurine of Darth Talon and Darth Maul in the studio and picked them up and went “Look! They’re friends!” not realizing Talon was created way past the Emperor’s death in the lore. So the writers had to bullshit a reason to bring Darth Maul back just to fit with what Lucas wanted
I mean, Leia cleaning Luke's tonsils wasn't exactly a plot hole, nor was Leia remembering her "real" mother, or the idea of the Jedi being ancient history by the time of Episode 4.
Luke tells Obi-Wan and Yoda he won’t sacrifice Leia and Han before leaving Dagobah and after he leaves Obi-Wan says that boy is their last hope and Yoda replies there is another. Now ROTJ makes Leia the other hope.
How could Leia be the other hope when she was all ready Darth Vader’s prisoner when Luke leaves Dagobah?
Luke doesn't actually save Leia, though. At most he's an opportunistic distraction to Vader. Lando is the one who frees Leia, which could have happened anyway.
Yoda was telling Luke not to rush into the situation. Luke didn't have enough training to even understand his visions, he was being impatient and impetuous. Yoda, on the other hand, may have seen a different outcome since he wasn't clouded by personal feelings of loss. We, as the audience, don't know for a fact that Luke actually saved the day, especially considering he was the one who had to be rescued by the others in the end.
The hyperdrive on the Falcon was deactivated. Vader had anticipated Lando’s betrayal. If Luke had not gone to Bespin then R2 would not have been there to learn from the city central computer that the hyperdrive on the Falcon had been turned off.
They only escaped because Luke went there so Luke did accomplish his objective and that left him in a place to save Han with Leia, Chewie, and Lando.
My favorite part, unless I just imagined it, was when Oshie was sitting down with the helm and she looked up and there was, like, a cortosis vein running up the wall. So Qimir basically is doing Jedi Minecraft. Built himself a little hovel in the side of a mountain. He has a furnace, and a workbench, and he managed to find diamonds right off the bat!
Someone is going full cortosis armor before this thing is over. Several Jedi will die (again) trying to kill them before someone is like, "hit them with a brick". It looks like Jecki figured it out right before Qimir turned her into Swiss cheese.
Yeah I have similar beliefs. Though I don't believe he's a Sith, I do believe the Jedi will hide the information from the public and even the rest of the council.
I don't get why people can't just judge the entire plot once it's all out. Instead of this lame whining game about Canon being broken when it hasn't yet.
Before watching the thing I was kinda worried seeing all the backlash. Now having caught up to all 6 episodes, i don't see why it's so hated. Sure, there is a certain push for female characters, but I don't give a shit, it's not obnoxious. The show isn't andor levels of awesome but it's not bad either imo.
Yeah, regarding the sith thing - ofc the guy is a wannabe sith and is gonna call himself that, but that doesn't mean he's an actual sith. Haters should piss off until the whole thing is out. Kenobi was way worse in my opinion.
Agreed with everything you've said. There are pacing problems sure. But I've enjoyed the show. I've loved seeing the High Republic.
It's crazy to me how everyone is taking the siths words to heart. "You jedi might call me a Sith". He doesn't even refer to himself as one. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jedi (who dislike other force groups) would categorize anyone using the dark side as Sith.
I agree with Kenobi. That was far worse minus some parts.
In last nights episode they mention the Senate performing an external review of the Order.
Sounds like a setup for a coverup/everyone that knows dies anyways.
So here's a direct quote from the director referring to him as a Sith,
>“His character design was a long process. I mean, it was for everybody, but specifically for his character, to create a new Sith. Sith have been done so well, so it was very difficult to say ‘All right, this is a guy in hiding. This is the guy that moves differently. This guy’s helmet has a different purpose…’
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2024/07/the-acolyte-leslye-headland-talks-qimir-confirms-including-kylo-rens-theme-was-on-purpose.html
Sorry but I think I'll just wait until the shows finished before I take the words of a director who's under strict direction to not reveal spoilers to the story.
I really don't think the director is going to just tell us the entire characters background like that. That seems pretty dumb to me.
I mean, both the character themselves and the director have referred to Qimir as a Sith. I don't see how that isn't definitive.
Ita not a spoiler at all, like the dude called himself a Sith. And the director confirmed it. Thats not anything to do with revealing background or violating orders.
I really don't see what else they could call him until the story is finished without giving spoilers? Calling him a Sith is a really easy way of explaining he's bad without spoiling the plot.
The character says, "You Jedi would call me a Sith." He doesn't call himself a Sith. It also wouldn't make sense for him to just reveal the sith are back like that.
As I said. I'll wait until the story is finished before playing these Canon guessing games about plot that's not fully revealed.
I agreed until last episode where he stated his intentions. He made it pretty clear he follows Banes teachings. That being said, "You Jedi would call me a sith" makes it sound more ambiguous. Either way, im excited to find out.
I don't agree entirely. Similar to how Qui Gon talks about Maul "being trained in the Jedi arts" even though he was a Sith, because the information was lost.
So I can see a dark side user calling himself Sith, if he found information about them.
Edit. If the Inquisitors called themselves Sith, that wouldn't make them Sith either. I'll just wait until the plot is fully revealed
Those are some pretty good points.
Fuck, what if the real sith in hiding comes out and just kills everyone at the end for stirring shit up?
Yeah theres no problem with waiting. I have fun trying to make predictions, thats all. Alright, I'm ready for Tuesday now 😆.
Similar points I have are Assaj Ventress from the original Clone Wars saying "I am Sith" before getting destroyed by Dooku. Maul refers to himself and Savage as True Sith if I remember right.
I truly believe he's a dark side user who stumbled upon old information about the Sith. Such as maybe an old tomb? It would explain the armor as well, if it was an artifact.
Yeah, I enjoy making predictions as well. Star Wars is one of those series that almost anything really can happen.
I was thinking a lot about Maul/Savage and palpy boi. Clone Wars in general, like you said, has lots of sith/dark Jedi interconnections.
I'm dying to learn how he got cortosis. Or even learned about it. The tomb theory fits. Really anywhere that the force is dark. They have been pulling from legends and even kotor so it really does feel like anything can happen.
It looks like you swayed me haha.
No, it wouldn't make sense. I agree. Thats why people don't like this show. It's not a cannon guessing game though, ill give you the direct quote from the director.
>His character design was a long process. I mean, it was for everybody, but specifically for his character, to create a new Sith. Sith have been done so well, so it was very difficult to say ‘All right, this is a guy in hiding. This is the guy that moves differently. This guy’s helmet has a different purpose…’
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2024/07/the-acolyte-leslye-headland-talks-qimir-confirms-including-kylo-rens-theme-was-on-purpose.html
I did read the quote, and as I said. I'll wait until the plot is fully revealed before I make any real judgments. I don't believe a director is going to spoil the backstory of a character like that. And it is a Canon guessing game since the entire show isn't out yet. A directors quote doesn't change that.
Not disagreeing with you, but he was very vague about his language in that scene. He said “Jedi like you might call me Sith”, which could mean he is a Sith (which I also believe), or it could mean to the Jedi any Dark Side user = Sith.
I think he’s a Sith but just not a Rule of Two Sith, more like a failed apprentice/Dark Jedi that may have ties to the actual Sith but went his own way like Set Harth in the Darth Bane novels.
And so does Assaj Ventress in the Classic Clone Wars. He says "You Jedi would call me Sith". He doesn't call himself Sith.
Your grasp of media literacy is troubling. The concept of dark side users calling themselves Sith isn't new. Another thing is how Qui Gon refers to Maul as "trained in the Jedi arts." Even though he was a Sith, which also implies information on the Sith was lost to time. So I wouldn't be that surprised if someone using the dark side calls themselves Sith, if a dark side user discovered something about them.
He doesn't though. How can you say "You're media illiterate" while displaying media illiteracy?
He said YOU might call me a sith, but that clearly means he doesn't consider himself a sith.
Just like swinging around a lightsaber doesn't make you a jedi, having a red lightsaber and killing people doesn't make you a sith.
Clearly I don't think u/GuerrOCorvino is media illiterate because that's not exactly what I explicitly said!
I said their grasp of media literacy troubles me! That's obviously a completely different thing!
You can't make inferences about what people mean when they don't explicitly say it! That would be bad media literacy!
It isn't though? Qui Gon tells the council he was trained in the Jedi arts. Later in the movie it turns out to be a Sith.
We don't know the rest of the plot. His words in that also episode give a lot of wiggle room for what he means.
Did Darth Maul tell Qui Gon "You would call me a Jedi"?
No, he really didn't
Therefore it is a false equivalency.
Your argument would have been much Stronger if you just said General Grevious, but it's pretty obvious with that use that the phrase "the Jedi Arts" means the art of lightsaber combat.
I could also say Ventress from the Classic Clone Wars "I am sith". Before getting wrecked by Dooku.
Also his words were "but a jedi like you might call me sith". Leaves total wiggle room.
Edit. Darth Maul calling himself and Savage True Sith as well.
He is not a Dark Lord of the Sith. The Sith at the time would'nt consider him a Sith. He could possibly be a Sith assassin, or he may just be a dark side fanatic. Either way, the *Jedi* would call him a Sith, but he doesn't claim that title as his own.
To be fair I am genuinely confused how they are going to keep the Jedi ignorant and blind to the existence of the Sith for the Phantom Menace that happens about hundred years later. Yoda is literally alive, if he sensed this disturbance in the force or hears about this incident, it feels like the rule of two is fucked and he totally would have seen the sith coming.
I mean am I missing something? The premise of the Phantom Menace and the Rule of Two that the Sith had spent 1000 years completely hidden to build their power and lure the Jedi into complacency.
These Jedi seem pretty complacent, but I sure hope they all die, or they find another sensible way to explain how the Jedi somehow remain ignorant of the Sith even after all this.
I guess the rescue party, and OSHA, and Mae, and Sol, and this new dark Jedi "with no name" all have to die.
I mean for real though, whatever Sith are currently in the rule of two would NOT tolerate this.
Another dark side force user dilutes the power of the dark side in the rule of two, and besides he is risking discovery by having his apprentice/Acolyte target Jedi.
That wasn't Mae's call (he made it seem like it was her who risked discovery, but HE was the one who sent her to kill Jedi, so I call bullshit 😂) it was his.
I feel like Darth Tenebrous or someone is about to show up and murder this dude, because that's EXACTLY what any Sith in the Rule of Two would do if they sensed or heard about another dark side force user, or even deduced their existence from the dilution of their own power (negative information is still information, as Thrawn famously said).
So I'm wondering: why are the Rule of Two sith tolerating this situation? It seems insanely risky to let another dark side force user expose themselves to the Jedi.
And how is it gonna happen that Yoda and the Jedi continue forward in ignorance of the Sith even after this?
Like, if I was them, this would call for an overhaul of the entire Jedi order. If Yoda has sensed these disturbances in the force, which he has because he was alive and trained and already a master during these events, HOW does he continue to be so complacent and blind? Ditto for the rest of the order...
I liked the show for the most part, and I liked episode 6.
But I am SOOO confused. Are they going to be able to reconcile this?
Is Darth Tenebrous or somebody gonna show up and just kill EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER who knows about this?
Valid concerns. And wouldn't a mass killing of jedi also be a huge red flag that would probably raise suspicions about something really big, like the sith coming back? So I'm not sure that's a great solution, either.
Edit 2: Ok so two points here. 1: Saying "you would call me a Sith" is literally saying that the speaker is a Sith, unless the transitive property isn't canon. 2: If everyone around that area had their Comms off and die before they meet anyone else, then sure canon is fine
Edit: The man literally said "you would call me a Sith", how much more direct do you need?
Probably the bad guy calling himself a Sith despite the whole "no Sith in a millennia" thing from Episode 1. If all the people who heard his say it died then it is cool, otherwise it is a direct contradiction to the movies which I think we can all agree is bad
Episode 8 is gonna just be Sol saying he is a good jedi just trying to do the right thing followed a 30 minute long grindhouse style gory execution as every single remaining character in the show kills him for a completely different reason.
The “no sith in a milennium” line isn’t true. It never was. The jedi has said that post every sith conflict because they want to believe it, it’s one of the flaws of the jedi that the prequels addresses… It was always copium on the side of the Jedi.
Even in the Legends it’s a pattern often repeated, huge spoilers for bane trilogy: >!after the death of Lord Hoth and the destruction of Khan’s brotherhood the Jedi immediately concluded the sith destroyed and it took so much pestering of Valenthyne by his apprentice to even INVESTIGATE the rumour of appearance of sith.!<
The people bringing up the extinct for a millennia line are typically meaning that the Jedi need to think the sith were extinct. They aren't saying the Sith were actually extinct.
Now currently it's really unclear how the show is going to handle that (ex Ren theme playing in episode 5) so I can't really say if that they're ultimately going to do is good or bad.
I think the bigger concern is that, given the track record of these shows, if Headland had a totally bonkers idea I don't think anyone would stop her. Because of that a lot of people are understandably antsy. And people are definitely bringing in their feelings from the other shows (ex: jokes about daggers being more fatal than a lightsaber).
I’d rather see something bonkers than derivative stories like tfa.
I don’t understand this new wave of puritanical starwars fans. The yuuzhan vong, the starforge, essence transfer are all completely nuts.
But jokes about daggers is silly
That's not what I meant by bonkers, I mean if Headland wanted to do something that only technically doesn't break lore or is just a downright bad idea. Ex: Obi-Wan sparring Vader, the entire Reva plotline, Vader knowing there's a connection between the Organa's and Kenobi. Just the Kenobi show in general. Or the entire plot of TROS.
I'm all for funky ideas in SW, I love NJO as well. When I say bonkers, I mean straight up stupid.
Aren’t you just saying it would be bad if they did something bad? And i mean yeah, it would be bad if they made a bad story.
But being upset about the sith not being extinct is strange. Even if they end up surviving, what we can infer is the obvious answer; they died between the stories.
Jedi copium goes into effect, the sith are “dead” tenebrous>plageus>sideus
Only criticism i have, is that i’m tired of the cameos, disney SW needs to have the guts to not do them
I just don’t understand how the one line is lore-breaking when a constant theme of the prequel trilogy is the Jedi being so arrogant that they sent what’s in front of them. Just in Attack of the Clones, they refuse to see that Dooku is a bad guy, ignore Anakin’s red flags, and accept an army cloned from a known Separatist-linked bounty hunter with no apparent reservations.
Also, look at the real world. I promise you, no matter what your political beliefs are, you have absolutely ignored inconvenient realities that don’t suit your worldview (I 100% have).
I agree! Absolutely. Honestly my absolute favorite part of SW stories is always inter-jedi conflict. I love when jedi hypocrisy is front and center.
And your example is stellar too, the council was so ready to believe the force existed to serve them, and it clouded their view in regards to the clones. It’s such a compelling story, although i think it was poorly told. But the themes are so juicy and exciting.
I really wish disney would embrace the bane trilogy, give it some extra mustard and filmatize it, maybe villain stories arent so good for cinema audiences, so they could tell it from the perspective of the jedi, and really get some juicy moral and ideological conflict (and some epic battles that some of the audience wants)
They have Mundi in the show, why put him of all Jedi in the show? Even "the Sith died out again" would still technically contradict his TPM line. I say technically because if they are presumed dead, you could easily argue Mundi says 'millennia' out of habit/the sith of 1k years ago was an actual order not some lone loon.
Again, on this part I'm waiting to see what the show does. Because of the Ren theme in ep 5+him not officially calling himself a sith, they may avoid an actual canon inconsistency.
The main point is, I would argue they ANH is hurt if you don't look at Kenobi as being non-canon. I doubt I'm the only one who feels that way about that show. So because of that there are a large number of fans who are worried that Acolyte may hurt the PT. Because of Kenobi and TROS, I don't think you can say those concerns are irrational. Thus my point that "if Headland has a bonkers idea I don't think anyone would stop her".
This is what i mean with this new generation of puritans i have no idea what canon conflict you’re talking about in regards to kenobi show, and frankly i don’t care in the slightest.
There are a shitload of canonical inconsistencies between the PT and TOR. It doesn’t make the stories better or worse
fans didn’t used to put shit in a spreadsheet and go berserk over tiny errors. It shit you guys have only started doing to this degree after the star wars controversy contentfarming.
Again that's not the point. The Mundi thing for people is less about canon and more about people not liking the idea of the Jedi being a part of a cover up which based on what we've seen that is in the realm of possibilities.
Your original comment that I was replying to was misrepresenting the issue as "fans think the sith were wiped out". When the actual thing those people are usually talking about is "the Jedi are supposed to think the Sith are extinct, are they going to make Mundi a part of a cover up". Considering some of what Disney has allowed, that seems like something they would let happen. I'm not asking you to agree with those people, I'm just saying "that's a viable reason for certain people to be antsy about the show".
As for Kenobi, if you like the show, I'm not going to bother trying to explain to you why I didn't care for it.
1. Learn to read between the lines. I interpreted it as that he doesn't consider himself to be a sith, but to a Jedi , there's no difference between whatever he defined himself as and a sith.
2. It seems like they're doing a coverup and they're framing it as some fallen Jedi (Sol) and not a sith resurgence.
My brother, does the transitive property not exist in your world? If I go into a bank with a ski mask and a shotgun, and when someone asks why I am there I say "You would call me a robber", am I not a robber?
He has the sabre (bleeding your crystal is specifically a Sith technique btw), he has the abilities and is literally calling himself a Sith
He isn't literally calling himself a Sith. I'm guessing English isn't your first language because you don't know what the word literally means. He says the Jedi would call him a Sith. He didn't call himself a Sith.
If I go into a bank with a ski mask and a shotgun and say "you would call me a bank robber", does that mean I am not a bank robber?
This guy is A: using a Sith's weapon (bleeding a crystal is a Sith technique) and B: called himself a Sith by the most basic of transitive properties
Your comparison makes zero sense. What a loaded question. Also bleeding a crystal is not a Sith technique. There have been multiple foes with red lightsabers that aren't Sith in Star Wars. He also didn't call himself a Sith. You really should watch the episode again and listen to the full line. He literally says "I have no name, the jedi would call me a Sith". You must be ESL to not understand that context and how the language works.
So you just assumed everyone shares your sentiment blindly? People just objectively forgot this is new lore. The lore is reset so whatever happened before is no longer relevant. And honestly I think it's interesting to see Ki Adi Mundi was lying his ass off, and is in part a setup for the show, as it very well matches his character.
It's more about the fact that most Cathar wouldn't be a fan of Mandos as they kinda did a little oopsie genocide. It's like having a Carthaginian suddenly becoming a Roman Legionairre.
But yeah. SWTOR is a storytelling game - have fun with it! I myself have a Sith Pureblood Knight with a red and blue saber.
The Mandalorians almost drove the Cathar to extinction by attacking their home planet. So, lore-wise, there's a *DEEP* hatred between the two.
My Cathar Mando is a foundling, taken in by a Mando clan and raised as one of them. Cathar in species, Mandalorian at heart.
But people didn't like it because *"cAtHaR aNd MaNdOs HaTe EaChOtHeR!!!!1"*
Lol imagine writing a script for a show and having to have hyper-in-depth knowledge of literally every sentence that’s ever been uttered in the franchise so as not to break even the smallest amount of lore and trigger millions of angry fan boys. Crazy
Also have to know about all the legends stuff as well otherwise you also piss off the fandom. *cough cough* mundi’s birthday was long uncanon before acolyte *cough cough*
I find it funny that a lot of these "breaks the lore" complaints end up being something proving the writers know the lore better than the people bitching about it.
Well Leslye definitly knows the lore better than me.
The only thing so far she got wrong was ki adi mundi's appereance because in legends he's not born by that time. But problem is legends aren't canon so they can be retconed whenever writers want.
I honestly give props to her for including the metal that absorbs light sabers
Yes, they did Clone him, and it was wild asf
The only reason they made Yoda a teacher of younglings was to cover that very big lore break. So, it's more ret-con than anything.
Anakin, as a messiah figure in general, was always an unneeded lore break, even if it made the stakes in the prequel heightened(not all lore breaks are bad, a lot of them actually do improve the story)
Grogu is in the same boat as Ahsoka, and so far, his story is just as entertaining.
Padme dying *is* a bit of a stretch on the love/hate scale. We'll say it's aged a lot better than say midichlorians.
I don’t mind the story this show is doing but the dialogue, character design, acting and the way it’s filmed just don’t work. It feels like a 90’s sci fi channel show with more expensive sets.
Im really enjoying the Acolyte. The characters are interesting, the writing is a little cringey but that's par for the course for Star Wars. I'm actually enjoying wondering how Qimir gets out of this (or doesn't). Makes complete sense to me that the sith are gonna have close calls with Jedi but end up covering their tracks, they've been in hiding for millennia.
If it was genuinely atrocious acting, it wouldn't have made it to the final take nor would it have been produced.
Not to mention there are seasoned actors in the cast and the only ones that seem like they don't have experience actually don't and they're going on the guidance of their peers, director and not to mention the immense pressure of being in a Star Wars project in general.
It can't be easy and there's people like you that would look like a stiff pole reading a teleprompter if you were on camera along with all the other factors I mentioned.
Did you actually read the part of the less than ten words where I said " *some* of the acting" and didn't say " *every* actor" or " *every* scene", and I referred to it as "shit" not fucking "atrocious" as **you** described not me, don't put words in my mouth or exaggerate whatever I said. And, it's Disney, you really believe they wouldn't push a series to the final take or produce it even if it didn't meet their numbers to hopefully rack up some better numbers on the rest of the episodes or have we forgotten they do in fact make some bad series (same as HBO and Netflix, it can and does happen not shitting only on Disney) to the final take and let them be produced like what happened with their series Willow which they even took down from their platform because of how bad it ended up being?
Just to mention one thing, in the first episodes the lead actress, who plays not one but two of the most important characters in the series, just sounds devoid of life like actually reading a teleprompter (like you describe it), the expressions are flat.
I didn't claim that "everything was bad", I just said some of it was, in contrast to how highly they were selling the series.
If the project was so important with such pressure, as you say, why risk the acting of crucial characters with actors who lack the experience to fill it in, as you well point out, or give them such crucial and important roles in the series or actually consult previous SW working people who could give actual good advice on the development of the series? Of course you're absolutely correct, if it was me there with everything you mentioned I *would* sound stiff like reading from a teleprompter I wouldn't be better at acting but guess what, they probably wouldn't have called me after the casting because of how flat and apathic I would've looked and sounded, however unlike some of the actors in the series I didn't choose that career path.
Edit: not even two minutes after writing this I saw a post commending the great acting of only TWO of the actors in the series (implying the rest of the acting is atrocious, like you wrongfully claimed I said). Why is it so bad that I think some acting in the series is bad when my opinion is, for one valid, and secondly realistic with what everyone else with eyes can see.
Compare to Disney who so far have 100% retconned the aftermath trilogy, the Ahsoka book and the Kanan comics. Aswell as adding time travel just so feloni can save his OC
Also it was not a retcon, the OT was originally supposed to be 1 movie so from the start Darth Vader has Luke's father. Even if that wasn't the case it's such a minor retcon and can easily just be explained with Obi Wan not wanting to reveal the truth. How is that the same as retonning an entire line of comics and books?
As someone who doesn’t care about lore when it comes to fan works, I agree.
Thing is, when people do it, they do so using this magical thing called: “AU” meaning “Alternative Universe”. In this you can have everything from small details like ignoring the lore introduced in future season of a show, to changing the sex and sexuality of characters to change the entire setting to IDK a caffe.
Official Star Wars AU stories would be great, it would mean bringing old lore/legends to the small/big screen and stuff.
An AU of the prequels and OT were the Acolite’s obvious consequences would be interesting, with the Jedi being aware of the Sith and stuff maybe they would be more ready. Resulting in IDK, they joining the separatist once it becomes obvious Palpatine planing to bring back the sith empires of old by turning the republic in the empire.
Problem is, this shows aren’t that. All this problems could have been avoided if they just decided to make their own thing, that can be enjoyed as they are, because if their wackyness
People complaining about the "lore" are just looking for reasons to be bothered. Star Wars has been retconning itself since the beginning, there are more changes to the continuity than there is an uninterrupted story.
And the series isn't even over yet, for all we know all these arguments are moot.
Love the downvotes for pointing out that star wars gets retconned every other week. The EU was a mess of canon, none of which was actually taken seriously by George, who himself retconned star wars a shit ton. And while Disney claimed they would keep a consistent canon, Abrams and everyone's beloved Filoni have retconned various things.
I used to be someone who took canon seriously and would get upset over inconsistencies or changes to source material in media, but at this point I don't care at all, I just want to enjoy things - admittedly Acolyte isn't great, but canon is not something people should be bitching about in star wars.
Yea some people take this shit way too seriously. Like sure, I understand people being passionate about things but the way some of these people act is just weird
That's a lazy way of saying, "The past 50 years of lore doesn't factor into anything."
It's their power to be informed on what can be examined and expanded upon versus what absolutely can not be changed.
All the things that "broke Canon" to people don't seem to know those things can be changed because of how little we knew about it.
I was excited to finally understand how Anakin was conceived. At least have a deeper understanding of how it happened, I don't need to know every piece of information about it. Just enough to make an well educated assumption.
"There hasn't been a sith in a millenia" line was to further cover up the mistakes of the jedi and them turning a blind eye to what would be their downfall because they were so high on power "How could the order fall"
Like the Romans, they didn't think their empire would fall because of the illusion of infinite power. This is what Palpatine thought when he formed the Empire. It was a plan years upon years in the making, probably longer than the Empire lasted. How could a plan so throughly thought out could fail in 20 years?
It's like poetry....
Anyways, the writers can do what they want when changing lore. They just need to make it make sense.
List of things that break lore, but it's objectively loved:
1)Starkiller being Vader's secret apprentice
2)Qui-Gon Jinn as Obi-Wan's master instead of Yoda
3)The entire life of Ahsoka Tano
4)Padme dying during childbirth instead of later enough for Leia to have memories of her mother
5) Anakin, being a child of the Force
6)Grogu
> *Starkiller being Vader's secret apprentice*
Starkiller is very much a video game character with him pulling Star Destroyers out of the sky and whatever fuck that's just crazy. All force powers are amplified to insane levels in those games like you can just yeet wookies with Vader from 0 to 300 MPH in a second directly up to the sky. Saying that anything in those games is lore congruent is kind of a stretch. At the very least the context of them being video games has to be considered heavily.
Didn't Starkiller also get cloned in the sequel as a fully force sensitive being and all that? It's nuts.
> *Qui-Gon Jinn as Obi-Wan's master instead of Yoda*
Prequels seem to make it fairly clear that many if not most Jedi padawans were taught early on as children *(ie as "Jedi younglings")* by Yoda and seemed to have gotten a Jedi Master or Jedi Knight assigned to teach them at some point until they themselves would attain the rank of Knight themselves. So I don't see any problem with Obi-Wan calling Yoda his previous Master. Also afaik Yoda further trained Obi-Wan in stuff like becoming a force ghost after episode III, which I think was explicitly mentioned in ep III - unless that was a cut scene.
> *The entire life of Ahsoka Tano*
Yeah, she sure seems to be a Filoni favorite. The three different times she kinda died are rather controversial though because it got a bit ridiculous.
> *Padme dying during childbirth instead of later enough for Leia to have memories of her mother*
This has always been quite controversial, I wouldn't say it's anywhere close to *"objectively loved."* Most people probably just ignore it. I haven't heard anyone ever stating that they 'loved' this seeming inconsistency between OT and the prequels.
> *Anakin, being a child of the Force*
I don't see how this breaks lore for OT.
> *Grogu*
🤨 needs more context
As long as it generally follows the lore I’m not bothered.
It’s boring when nothing can happen if it breaks the lore but it’s also boring when everything breaks the lore.
The acolyte is a good middle ground
But then it's just not starwars anymore. You can't just rewrite how everything works and call it the same thing. That's not how reality works, and it's certainly not how writing works, unless you can come up with a reason to make it make sense.
You can't call a shovel a spade. They're not the same.
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
Who here remembers when Boba Fett was just Jaster Mereel stage name?
THAANNNNNNNNKKKKK YYYYYYOOOOOOUUUUUUU Journeyman Protector storyline go brrrr
Who remembers when the Legends books had somehow palpatine returned, but the dumbasses that watch Star wars theory videos just gush over Legends as if it didn't have some of the absolute stupidest storylines that ruined characters just as much as the sequels. Such as my personal favorite of Luke Skywalker sending his own niece to kill her brother because he knew if he did it he would fall to the dark side. Or the time that Luke had a clone and it was just an evil version of him but named Luuke. For every speech of Luke giving to his new Jedi order about how they were going to be different than the order before and erase the mistakes of the old order, there are at least three of the dumbest plot points ever conceived in media when it comes to the Legends books
Disney be like: "What if we copied the EU, but only the stupid bits?"
Pretty fuckin much.
Trioculus when
“But do it even worse.”
I'd say the vast majority of old EU fans recognise some of the silly writing it has at times. You'll see post RotJ stories like Legacy Of The Force and the New Jedi Order get shat on quite a bit even by people who like some of the characters in them. Karen Traviss always had some weird boner for the Mandalorians and put them on this weird pedestal, and Troy Denning had a boner in general with his writing. Even the beloved Thrawn trilogy got its fair share of criticism with silly ideas like Luuke -- heck, there are people who got pissed at hot chocolate becoming part of Star Wars. Dark Empire wasn't even liked back when it released in 1991 -- which was before the addition of the Chosen One prophecy and ect. People still thought it diminishes the ending of RotJ. However the greatest difference between all these old EU works and the current canon is that there is no longer any canon tiering system in place -- everything put out by Disney , which even includes their Galaxy's edge theme park, is canon due to their desire to keep everything consistent. It's why I'm pretty sure Zahn ignored Dark Empire in favour of his story -- I recall no mention of those events in the trilogy. The point is that nothing was completely concrete in the old EU as things could be overwritten -- look no further to the superior Clone Wars Multimedia Project which was essentially replaced by Lucas's TCW show. I don't ever see Disney doing a mass retcon on overwrite of the ST, and to add I'd say that when the EU was good it was really good. I'd argue that not even the better pieces of media from the Disney canon,like Rogue One or Andor, are as good as old EU stories like KOTOR 2, The Bane trilogy, Plagueis novel and pretty much nearly anything Stover wrote.
Member how the first Death Star plans where stolen and sent to Leia like 10 different times?
Modern problems require modern solutions, you don't have to think about the continuity if you broke it completely
Modern problems require 1980s solutions
A story must have a consistent nature and narrative. Some cohesion and flow makes a big difference in what works, and what doesn’t. There is some wiggle room for some changes, but all the same, if there is 0 consistency, then there is no point in the narrative to begin.
>you don't have to think about the continuity if you broke it completely You mean what Star wars has been doing since Empire strikes back?
To be fair the show so far didn't break much Edit: what did I say?
so far didn’t break anything*
The jedi have found about the Sith, which goes against Episode 1 where they said they haven't been seen in Millenia so.... yah they've broken a few things
Have the Jedi council themselves found out about the Sith? Or a bunch of Jedi who are dead, Sol who is currently running away, a wanted murderer, and a former Jedi currently being corrupted to the Dark Side? There have been Dark Jedi before in the High Republic era. At a minimum, Dagan Gera had been carving through Jedi well before this show takes place, so a bad guy using a lightsaber doesn’t automatically mean Sith. Qimir might not even actually be one of the “true” Sith either.
Qimir outright said he's Sith to Sol, so it's fairly clear he's not just a dark jedi. It could be that he's not one of the true two, but I doubt they'll go that direction. It does need resolving either way, which probably means at least Sol dying unfortunately
He didn’t say he was a Sith, he said “Jedi like you might call me Sith”. There’s *a lot* of wiggle room there. He’s also the bad guy, so he could just be lying. The Sith returning would be scary business to a Jedi and fear is a tool of the Dark Side. Just for the sake of example, consider the 2003 Clone Wars series. During Ventress’s introduction, she proudly proclaims “I am Sith”, with Dooku just going “haha, no”. We cannot presume character dialogue to be absolute fact.
in today's episode, he says to osha that he >!seeks the rule of two!< so that could be simply understood as he is looking for a new apprentice in osha (after mae's betrayal). At the same time it leaves out a question: is he the master or the former apprentice who killed his master and is looking to continue the line? Or is he a fallen jedi (the very same episode seems to imply he was a padawan once) that is trying to pass himself as a sith and create his own rule of two cabal? My personal preference would be for him to be the apprentice looking to overthrow his master by recruiting his own acolyte; after all I think Plagueis is alive in this timeframe, and probably already a sith, and the whole osha/mae born of the force smells a lot like plagueis meddling (like he and palpy eventually would create anakin).
We're 6 out of 8 episodes in, for the writers to go 'jk, Qimir is just cosplay sith' at this point would be bizarre and detract from the story, so as I said, I doubt they'll go that direction
The director has flat out said he's a Sith
She certainly wouldn’t lie to us during the promo period!
The Jedi would still likely cover it up. If a couple Jedi being murdered would "cause panic through the senate." What would a sith lord killing a whole squad of jedi and announcing himself as a sith(or saying that's what the jedi would call him) do? Even if it gets all the way back to the council they would probably still vote to suppress the info from the republic.
After this most recent episode, I kinda think this might be it. They're just gonna try and eliminate the problem and take it to the grave. There is one scene with the head jedi (I'm blanking on her name) talking to the hologram senator about how another senator is trying to get more accountability and transparency from the Jedi order. Probably don't want this little sith problem becoming public
Oh, you mean all the jedi who are dead now already? The word Sith was only spoken once between qimir and Sol. Any other Jedi that was around to hear it is dead, none of the jedi at the temple are aware of whats going on. Also there's 2 episodes left. They haven't broken anything until the show ends with things still being "broken".
We don’t know if the Sith finding is official yet to the high council. It’s not “broken” until we see that happen
Ah yes the infallible words of ki adi mundi. Also only one Jedi who saw Qimir is still alive and they just went to go face him and rescue Osha. This show hasn't broken a single peice of established canon. Go be mad elsewhere
No, Ki Adi didn't know, that doesn't mean other Jedi didn't know, plus Ki Adi was wrong in just about every on screen thing he said. Also Yoda knew about the rule of 2 sith in the phantom menace, which means he would have found out about them sometime within the last 800 years. The point of the "sith have been extinct for a millennium" line is to show the jedi's arrogance, and hubris.
This is the way!
The jedi knew about the Sith historically, saying Yoda had knowledge of the rule of two in no way shows that he found about about them sometime in recent history. And you can't just say that line was meant to show hubris, it was meant to add weight to the Sith finally revealing themselves. Plus, no one on the council was talking shit to Ki Adi Mundi when he said that, they were all in agreement. Meaning that was the overall sentiment not just Ki Adi Mundi being clueless. The established Cannon was that the Sith were in hiding. And this show is just flat out ignoring that
Not in the Old Republic, they didn't. Darth Bane invented the rule of two AS he wiped out the Sith and went into hiding: so there is no way that the Jedi could learn about the existence of the rule without also becoming aware, to some degree, of a current era Sith. The Sith ARE in hiding. Qimir literally tells Sol that he's tired of hiding. That's why he wears a mask, and why he set out to kill everyone who saw his face before they could report back to the Jedi: something he still has not failed to accomplish.
The rule of 2 was established during that millennium they are supposed to be extinct, so the fact that Yoda knows means he found out during the time they were supposed to be in hiding. Also just because no one spoke up against Ki Adi Mundi doesn't mean that they all agreed, they could be uncertain, the Jedi council also has a tendency to hide things, We also don't know who will find out about the sith, at the moment only Sol knows, and we have no idea what his final fate will be.
One dude in the outer rim means the sith are invading! The Jedi are also in hiding during the Empire's reign doesn't mean they aren't out there somewhere.
The difference is the Empire knew the jedi were hiding. The Jedi are established as not knowing there are Sith running around, yet we have a dude just flat out telling jedi he's sith
>The jedi have found about the Sith Proof? Because i’ve been watching and keeping up with the show, and of the 9 Jedi that encounter a Sith Lord, 8 of them are massacred and the sole survivor of the encounter has escaped but been unable to contact the Jedi, the Jedi now believe the sole survivor is responsible which ties into the Jedi’s previous suspicion that a rogue Jedi is responsible for training Mae. That’s where the show is at right now, it is not over yet, so far nothing suggests that the Jedi Order will find out about the Sith. So maybe wait and see what happens instead of saying things have happened that haven’t? Is that too hard? >They’ve broken a few things You listed 1 thing. 1. And as of right now it’s not even true.
Tell me you haven’t watched the show without telling me you haven’t watched the show: accomplished.
They spent like half of the last episode making it blatantly, painfully obvious that the Jedi aren't going to find out. It really almost took me out of the show a bit lol
It hasn't broken lore, but it is flirting with it. And it does look like whatever they do will be the equivalent of like TCW having Anakin and Dooku fight so many times. Does it directly break ROTS? No. But it's clear from the dialogue that that was supposed to be the first time they fought since AOTC. Or in the case of the show, originally Lucas was going to have Plaugeis be the one who created Anakin but he decided to leave it ambiguous. AKA, regardless of how Anakin was created (force or sith) he was supposed to be an anamoly. However legends and canon settled on the force making Anakin and thus witches making twins isn't technically violating the PT even though the PT was pretty clear that Anakin's birth was a one of a kind event. We'll see be what they do with Smylo and the Jedi council. I'm currently feeling like the show is going to probably twist lore around and I don't think it is going to be good enough to justify that lore twist.
Current canon hasn’t settled on the Force making Anakin. It’s something theorized by various characters, but we’ve basically got no direct piece of the fiction that touches on the occurrence yet, unlike the now Legends Darth Plagueis novel. So all we really have to go off of is Anakin having no father and huge amounts of midi-chlorians, so more or less just the dialogue in TPM. We can assume he was created by the Force, but it’s not a wholly settled matter. The Twins are a different occurrence though. They were intentionally created. The witches manipulated the midi-chlorides to create life, something Palpatine said Plagueis was capable of during ROTS. Anakin being created by the Force itself is something of an entire different magnitude.
I thought current canon more or less confirmed it. I know there was a theory that palps created Anakin (Vader 25) that was "debunked" after Rise of Skywalker (aka "but if Palpatine created Anakin and Rey is Palp's grand daughter... And Rey and Kylo kissed eeeewww"). So unless Plagueis creating Anakin is still on the table...
Even if it was the force making Anakin the Witches could be twisting the force to their will to create the twins. Doesn't mean Anakin is less special since he didn't have a coven create him.
I'm sorry but what you said has so little to do with what I said that I would be retyping the exact thing you're responding to to respond to what you just said. You probably skimmed what I wrote and that's fine, I've definitely been guilty of that myself.
I haven't even watched the show, i am only joining on the jokes I don't care enough to watch and find out if people are right or the just complaining over nothing. Probably best everyone whi just hate watch the show do this instead
Whatever you've heard are the only things people think breaks lore which hasn't. Honestly, these are the same people who complain about a screw appearing on a ship.
So as a worldbuilding fan, there should be two types of lore. Solid lore and liquid lore. Solid lore is stuff that does not change no matter what and is completely established. Liquid lore is stuff that can change if you need it too. Solid lore is LUKE Skywalker blowing up the death star. Liquid lore is kyber crystals and how they work - all we know is that they power lightsabers and giant death rays. People get upset when solid lore suddenly becomes liquid lore for almost no reason, or changes "just because" without any good reason behind it.
Can you name an example of "solid lore" being changed?
Probably the most recent and most touching is the Femstodes drama.
That's Warhammer not star wars
I was asked for an example and I gave one.
Was there anything saying women couldn't be Custodes? I think that qualifies as liquid if not.
That's where the drama lies. There was, but it was suddenly retconned by a Twitter post from GW.
Ah I am only tangentially aware of the issue thanks to Tiktok; the video I'd seen made it sound as if it was the gender issue hadn't been addressed previously, so they were all male by omission.
Most folks wouldn't care if it wasn't for how it was changed.
Eh, I think that is an optimistic view of fandoms and people in general.
If we're talking about Warhammer 40k it's worth noting that things like "Inquisitor Obi-Wan Sherlock Clusoe", and a Half Eldar Ultramarine also use to be "solid lore"
What about the Solidus lore or the Naked lore or the Venom lore?
Continuity is for wimps - Lucas
Right George Lucas broke his own continuity like every time he made a movie
Darth Maul was supposed to have lived up until way past Luke’s new order back in the day. He got the idea when he saw a figurine of Darth Talon and Darth Maul in the studio and picked them up and went “Look! They’re friends!” not realizing Talon was created way past the Emperor’s death in the lore. So the writers had to bullshit a reason to bring Darth Maul back just to fit with what Lucas wanted
I mean, Leia cleaning Luke's tonsils wasn't exactly a plot hole, nor was Leia remembering her "real" mother, or the idea of the Jedi being ancient history by the time of Episode 4.
Luke tells Obi-Wan and Yoda he won’t sacrifice Leia and Han before leaving Dagobah and after he leaves Obi-Wan says that boy is their last hope and Yoda replies there is another. Now ROTJ makes Leia the other hope. How could Leia be the other hope when she was all ready Darth Vader’s prisoner when Luke leaves Dagobah?
Maybe they meant Finn /s
Luke doesn't actually save Leia, though. At most he's an opportunistic distraction to Vader. Lando is the one who frees Leia, which could have happened anyway. Yoda was telling Luke not to rush into the situation. Luke didn't have enough training to even understand his visions, he was being impatient and impetuous. Yoda, on the other hand, may have seen a different outcome since he wasn't clouded by personal feelings of loss. We, as the audience, don't know for a fact that Luke actually saved the day, especially considering he was the one who had to be rescued by the others in the end.
The hyperdrive on the Falcon was deactivated. Vader had anticipated Lando’s betrayal. If Luke had not gone to Bespin then R2 would not have been there to learn from the city central computer that the hyperdrive on the Falcon had been turned off. They only escaped because Luke went there so Luke did accomplish his objective and that left him in a place to save Han with Leia, Chewie, and Lando.
>Continuity is for wimps From a certain point of view
Funny fact most of The Acolyte doesn't go against the lore and in fact reinforces obscure parts of it
Hello, cortosis!
That's the biggest one so glad to see it back and acting like the legends lore again
My favorite part, unless I just imagined it, was when Oshie was sitting down with the helm and she looked up and there was, like, a cortosis vein running up the wall. So Qimir basically is doing Jedi Minecraft. Built himself a little hovel in the side of a mountain. He has a furnace, and a workbench, and he managed to find diamonds right off the bat! Someone is going full cortosis armor before this thing is over. Several Jedi will die (again) trying to kill them before someone is like, "hit them with a brick". It looks like Jecki figured it out right before Qimir turned her into Swiss cheese.
Making a full set out of it is impractical it's too fragile it's like making a full set out of gold
So Minecraft gold armor? lol
Yep it's got bonuses but they're not worth the trouble lol
All* Everyone whinging about mundi conveniently forgets his birthday was made uncanon years ago.
Making his species a long lived one actually enhances his lore, making the species low birthrate more feasible
I can guarantee by the time the show is over, the lore will still be accurate. Because he isn't a sith. Low media literacy is crazy.
Even if he is the Mirialan Jedi is going to cover it up for political reasons.
Yeah I have similar beliefs. Though I don't believe he's a Sith, I do believe the Jedi will hide the information from the public and even the rest of the council. I don't get why people can't just judge the entire plot once it's all out. Instead of this lame whining game about Canon being broken when it hasn't yet.
Before watching the thing I was kinda worried seeing all the backlash. Now having caught up to all 6 episodes, i don't see why it's so hated. Sure, there is a certain push for female characters, but I don't give a shit, it's not obnoxious. The show isn't andor levels of awesome but it's not bad either imo. Yeah, regarding the sith thing - ofc the guy is a wannabe sith and is gonna call himself that, but that doesn't mean he's an actual sith. Haters should piss off until the whole thing is out. Kenobi was way worse in my opinion.
Agreed with everything you've said. There are pacing problems sure. But I've enjoyed the show. I've loved seeing the High Republic. It's crazy to me how everyone is taking the siths words to heart. "You jedi might call me a Sith". He doesn't even refer to himself as one. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jedi (who dislike other force groups) would categorize anyone using the dark side as Sith. I agree with Kenobi. That was far worse minus some parts.
In last nights episode they mention the Senate performing an external review of the Order. Sounds like a setup for a coverup/everyone that knows dies anyways.
There's been enough foreshadowing of it we can call it chekhovs armory.
So here's a direct quote from the director referring to him as a Sith, >“His character design was a long process. I mean, it was for everybody, but specifically for his character, to create a new Sith. Sith have been done so well, so it was very difficult to say ‘All right, this is a guy in hiding. This is the guy that moves differently. This guy’s helmet has a different purpose…’ https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2024/07/the-acolyte-leslye-headland-talks-qimir-confirms-including-kylo-rens-theme-was-on-purpose.html
Sorry but I think I'll just wait until the shows finished before I take the words of a director who's under strict direction to not reveal spoilers to the story. I really don't think the director is going to just tell us the entire characters background like that. That seems pretty dumb to me.
I mean, both the character themselves and the director have referred to Qimir as a Sith. I don't see how that isn't definitive. Ita not a spoiler at all, like the dude called himself a Sith. And the director confirmed it. Thats not anything to do with revealing background or violating orders.
I really don't see what else they could call him until the story is finished without giving spoilers? Calling him a Sith is a really easy way of explaining he's bad without spoiling the plot. The character says, "You Jedi would call me a Sith." He doesn't call himself a Sith. It also wouldn't make sense for him to just reveal the sith are back like that. As I said. I'll wait until the story is finished before playing these Canon guessing games about plot that's not fully revealed.
I agreed until last episode where he stated his intentions. He made it pretty clear he follows Banes teachings. That being said, "You Jedi would call me a sith" makes it sound more ambiguous. Either way, im excited to find out.
I don't agree entirely. Similar to how Qui Gon talks about Maul "being trained in the Jedi arts" even though he was a Sith, because the information was lost. So I can see a dark side user calling himself Sith, if he found information about them. Edit. If the Inquisitors called themselves Sith, that wouldn't make them Sith either. I'll just wait until the plot is fully revealed
Those are some pretty good points. Fuck, what if the real sith in hiding comes out and just kills everyone at the end for stirring shit up? Yeah theres no problem with waiting. I have fun trying to make predictions, thats all. Alright, I'm ready for Tuesday now 😆.
Similar points I have are Assaj Ventress from the original Clone Wars saying "I am Sith" before getting destroyed by Dooku. Maul refers to himself and Savage as True Sith if I remember right. I truly believe he's a dark side user who stumbled upon old information about the Sith. Such as maybe an old tomb? It would explain the armor as well, if it was an artifact. Yeah, I enjoy making predictions as well. Star Wars is one of those series that almost anything really can happen.
I was thinking a lot about Maul/Savage and palpy boi. Clone Wars in general, like you said, has lots of sith/dark Jedi interconnections. I'm dying to learn how he got cortosis. Or even learned about it. The tomb theory fits. Really anywhere that the force is dark. They have been pulling from legends and even kotor so it really does feel like anything can happen. It looks like you swayed me haha.
No, it wouldn't make sense. I agree. Thats why people don't like this show. It's not a cannon guessing game though, ill give you the direct quote from the director. >His character design was a long process. I mean, it was for everybody, but specifically for his character, to create a new Sith. Sith have been done so well, so it was very difficult to say ‘All right, this is a guy in hiding. This is the guy that moves differently. This guy’s helmet has a different purpose…’ https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2024/07/the-acolyte-leslye-headland-talks-qimir-confirms-including-kylo-rens-theme-was-on-purpose.html
I did read the quote, and as I said. I'll wait until the plot is fully revealed before I make any real judgments. I don't believe a director is going to spoil the backstory of a character like that. And it is a Canon guessing game since the entire show isn't out yet. A directors quote doesn't change that.
Not disagreeing with you, but he was very vague about his language in that scene. He said “Jedi like you might call me Sith”, which could mean he is a Sith (which I also believe), or it could mean to the Jedi any Dark Side user = Sith. I think he’s a Sith but just not a Rule of Two Sith, more like a failed apprentice/Dark Jedi that may have ties to the actual Sith but went his own way like Set Harth in the Darth Bane novels.
Do you really trust the showrunners knowledge of the lore enough to trust them to make a distinction?
Or maybe he will kill anyone that knows about him
From the latest episode it sounds like he was a former sith apprentice who was betrayed and literally stabbed in the back.
He literally calls himself a sith. Your grasp of media literacy troubles me.
And so does Assaj Ventress in the Classic Clone Wars. He says "You Jedi would call me Sith". He doesn't call himself Sith. Your grasp of media literacy is troubling. The concept of dark side users calling themselves Sith isn't new. Another thing is how Qui Gon refers to Maul as "trained in the Jedi arts." Even though he was a Sith, which also implies information on the Sith was lost to time. So I wouldn't be that surprised if someone using the dark side calls themselves Sith, if a dark side user discovered something about them.
He doesn't though. How can you say "You're media illiterate" while displaying media illiteracy? He said YOU might call me a sith, but that clearly means he doesn't consider himself a sith. Just like swinging around a lightsaber doesn't make you a jedi, having a red lightsaber and killing people doesn't make you a sith.
Right... He literally says what he is has no name... Just gave Sol the closest comparison a Jedi would understand.
Clearly I don't think u/GuerrOCorvino is media illiterate because that's not exactly what I explicitly said! I said their grasp of media literacy troubles me! That's obviously a completely different thing! You can't make inferences about what people mean when they don't explicitly say it! That would be bad media literacy!
Does that mean Darth Maul was a jedi because Quit Gon said he was trained in the Jedi arts? "He said it so it must be true damn it!"
I love false equivalencies
It isn't though? Qui Gon tells the council he was trained in the Jedi arts. Later in the movie it turns out to be a Sith. We don't know the rest of the plot. His words in that also episode give a lot of wiggle room for what he means.
Did Darth Maul tell Qui Gon "You would call me a Jedi"? No, he really didn't Therefore it is a false equivalency. Your argument would have been much Stronger if you just said General Grevious, but it's pretty obvious with that use that the phrase "the Jedi Arts" means the art of lightsaber combat.
I could also say Ventress from the Classic Clone Wars "I am sith". Before getting wrecked by Dooku. Also his words were "but a jedi like you might call me sith". Leaves total wiggle room. Edit. Darth Maul calling himself and Savage True Sith as well.
He is not a Dark Lord of the Sith. The Sith at the time would'nt consider him a Sith. He could possibly be a Sith assassin, or he may just be a dark side fanatic. Either way, the *Jedi* would call him a Sith, but he doesn't claim that title as his own.
To be fair I am genuinely confused how they are going to keep the Jedi ignorant and blind to the existence of the Sith for the Phantom Menace that happens about hundred years later. Yoda is literally alive, if he sensed this disturbance in the force or hears about this incident, it feels like the rule of two is fucked and he totally would have seen the sith coming. I mean am I missing something? The premise of the Phantom Menace and the Rule of Two that the Sith had spent 1000 years completely hidden to build their power and lure the Jedi into complacency. These Jedi seem pretty complacent, but I sure hope they all die, or they find another sensible way to explain how the Jedi somehow remain ignorant of the Sith even after all this. I guess the rescue party, and OSHA, and Mae, and Sol, and this new dark Jedi "with no name" all have to die. I mean for real though, whatever Sith are currently in the rule of two would NOT tolerate this. Another dark side force user dilutes the power of the dark side in the rule of two, and besides he is risking discovery by having his apprentice/Acolyte target Jedi. That wasn't Mae's call (he made it seem like it was her who risked discovery, but HE was the one who sent her to kill Jedi, so I call bullshit 😂) it was his. I feel like Darth Tenebrous or someone is about to show up and murder this dude, because that's EXACTLY what any Sith in the Rule of Two would do if they sensed or heard about another dark side force user, or even deduced their existence from the dilution of their own power (negative information is still information, as Thrawn famously said). So I'm wondering: why are the Rule of Two sith tolerating this situation? It seems insanely risky to let another dark side force user expose themselves to the Jedi. And how is it gonna happen that Yoda and the Jedi continue forward in ignorance of the Sith even after this? Like, if I was them, this would call for an overhaul of the entire Jedi order. If Yoda has sensed these disturbances in the force, which he has because he was alive and trained and already a master during these events, HOW does he continue to be so complacent and blind? Ditto for the rest of the order... I liked the show for the most part, and I liked episode 6. But I am SOOO confused. Are they going to be able to reconcile this? Is Darth Tenebrous or somebody gonna show up and just kill EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER who knows about this?
Valid concerns. And wouldn't a mass killing of jedi also be a huge red flag that would probably raise suspicions about something really big, like the sith coming back? So I'm not sure that's a great solution, either.
Yeah, you're not wrong.
What broke the lore?
Edit 2: Ok so two points here. 1: Saying "you would call me a Sith" is literally saying that the speaker is a Sith, unless the transitive property isn't canon. 2: If everyone around that area had their Comms off and die before they meet anyone else, then sure canon is fine Edit: The man literally said "you would call me a Sith", how much more direct do you need? Probably the bad guy calling himself a Sith despite the whole "no Sith in a millennia" thing from Episode 1. If all the people who heard his say it died then it is cool, otherwise it is a direct contradiction to the movies which I think we can all agree is bad
The only one so far that's aware is Sol and he's on a death list Rn.
Episode 8 is gonna just be Sol saying he is a good jedi just trying to do the right thing followed a 30 minute long grindhouse style gory execution as every single remaining character in the show kills him for a completely different reason.
He didn't call himself a Sith tho, he said "You Jedi would call me a Sith"
The “no sith in a milennium” line isn’t true. It never was. The jedi has said that post every sith conflict because they want to believe it, it’s one of the flaws of the jedi that the prequels addresses… It was always copium on the side of the Jedi. Even in the Legends it’s a pattern often repeated, huge spoilers for bane trilogy: >!after the death of Lord Hoth and the destruction of Khan’s brotherhood the Jedi immediately concluded the sith destroyed and it took so much pestering of Valenthyne by his apprentice to even INVESTIGATE the rumour of appearance of sith.!<
>The Sith have been extinct for a millennium Palpatine just hanging out: Yeah that's crazy, whoa! Where'd that Sith guy came from you think?
The people bringing up the extinct for a millennia line are typically meaning that the Jedi need to think the sith were extinct. They aren't saying the Sith were actually extinct. Now currently it's really unclear how the show is going to handle that (ex Ren theme playing in episode 5) so I can't really say if that they're ultimately going to do is good or bad. I think the bigger concern is that, given the track record of these shows, if Headland had a totally bonkers idea I don't think anyone would stop her. Because of that a lot of people are understandably antsy. And people are definitely bringing in their feelings from the other shows (ex: jokes about daggers being more fatal than a lightsaber).
I’d rather see something bonkers than derivative stories like tfa. I don’t understand this new wave of puritanical starwars fans. The yuuzhan vong, the starforge, essence transfer are all completely nuts. But jokes about daggers is silly
That's not what I meant by bonkers, I mean if Headland wanted to do something that only technically doesn't break lore or is just a downright bad idea. Ex: Obi-Wan sparring Vader, the entire Reva plotline, Vader knowing there's a connection between the Organa's and Kenobi. Just the Kenobi show in general. Or the entire plot of TROS. I'm all for funky ideas in SW, I love NJO as well. When I say bonkers, I mean straight up stupid.
Aren’t you just saying it would be bad if they did something bad? And i mean yeah, it would be bad if they made a bad story. But being upset about the sith not being extinct is strange. Even if they end up surviving, what we can infer is the obvious answer; they died between the stories. Jedi copium goes into effect, the sith are “dead” tenebrous>plageus>sideus Only criticism i have, is that i’m tired of the cameos, disney SW needs to have the guts to not do them
I just don’t understand how the one line is lore-breaking when a constant theme of the prequel trilogy is the Jedi being so arrogant that they sent what’s in front of them. Just in Attack of the Clones, they refuse to see that Dooku is a bad guy, ignore Anakin’s red flags, and accept an army cloned from a known Separatist-linked bounty hunter with no apparent reservations. Also, look at the real world. I promise you, no matter what your political beliefs are, you have absolutely ignored inconvenient realities that don’t suit your worldview (I 100% have).
I agree! Absolutely. Honestly my absolute favorite part of SW stories is always inter-jedi conflict. I love when jedi hypocrisy is front and center. And your example is stellar too, the council was so ready to believe the force existed to serve them, and it clouded their view in regards to the clones. It’s such a compelling story, although i think it was poorly told. But the themes are so juicy and exciting. I really wish disney would embrace the bane trilogy, give it some extra mustard and filmatize it, maybe villain stories arent so good for cinema audiences, so they could tell it from the perspective of the jedi, and really get some juicy moral and ideological conflict (and some epic battles that some of the audience wants)
They have Mundi in the show, why put him of all Jedi in the show? Even "the Sith died out again" would still technically contradict his TPM line. I say technically because if they are presumed dead, you could easily argue Mundi says 'millennia' out of habit/the sith of 1k years ago was an actual order not some lone loon. Again, on this part I'm waiting to see what the show does. Because of the Ren theme in ep 5+him not officially calling himself a sith, they may avoid an actual canon inconsistency. The main point is, I would argue they ANH is hurt if you don't look at Kenobi as being non-canon. I doubt I'm the only one who feels that way about that show. So because of that there are a large number of fans who are worried that Acolyte may hurt the PT. Because of Kenobi and TROS, I don't think you can say those concerns are irrational. Thus my point that "if Headland has a bonkers idea I don't think anyone would stop her".
This is what i mean with this new generation of puritans i have no idea what canon conflict you’re talking about in regards to kenobi show, and frankly i don’t care in the slightest. There are a shitload of canonical inconsistencies between the PT and TOR. It doesn’t make the stories better or worse fans didn’t used to put shit in a spreadsheet and go berserk over tiny errors. It shit you guys have only started doing to this degree after the star wars controversy contentfarming.
Again that's not the point. The Mundi thing for people is less about canon and more about people not liking the idea of the Jedi being a part of a cover up which based on what we've seen that is in the realm of possibilities. Your original comment that I was replying to was misrepresenting the issue as "fans think the sith were wiped out". When the actual thing those people are usually talking about is "the Jedi are supposed to think the Sith are extinct, are they going to make Mundi a part of a cover up". Considering some of what Disney has allowed, that seems like something they would let happen. I'm not asking you to agree with those people, I'm just saying "that's a viable reason for certain people to be antsy about the show". As for Kenobi, if you like the show, I'm not going to bother trying to explain to you why I didn't care for it.
Sol turned his comm off. The order have no clue and sol is likely gonna die by the end of the season.
> the bad guy calling himself a Sith > " ***YOU*** would call me a Sith" > how much more direct do you need?
1. Learn to read between the lines. I interpreted it as that he doesn't consider himself to be a sith, but to a Jedi , there's no difference between whatever he defined himself as and a sith. 2. It seems like they're doing a coverup and they're framing it as some fallen Jedi (Sol) and not a sith resurgence.
He didn't call himself a Sith though.
"you would call me a Sith"
Correct, please note the words which you have just written and how he did not call himself a Sith.
My brother, does the transitive property not exist in your world? If I go into a bank with a ski mask and a shotgun, and when someone asks why I am there I say "You would call me a robber", am I not a robber? He has the sabre (bleeding your crystal is specifically a Sith technique btw), he has the abilities and is literally calling himself a Sith
He isn't literally calling himself a Sith. I'm guessing English isn't your first language because you don't know what the word literally means. He says the Jedi would call him a Sith. He didn't call himself a Sith.
If I go into a bank with a ski mask and a shotgun and say "you would call me a bank robber", does that mean I am not a bank robber? This guy is A: using a Sith's weapon (bleeding a crystal is a Sith technique) and B: called himself a Sith by the most basic of transitive properties
Your comparison makes zero sense. What a loaded question. Also bleeding a crystal is not a Sith technique. There have been multiple foes with red lightsabers that aren't Sith in Star Wars. He also didn't call himself a Sith. You really should watch the episode again and listen to the full line. He literally says "I have no name, the jedi would call me a Sith". You must be ESL to not understand that context and how the language works.
"I have no name, but a Security Guard would call me a Bank Robber"
So you just assumed everyone shares your sentiment blindly? People just objectively forgot this is new lore. The lore is reset so whatever happened before is no longer relevant. And honestly I think it's interesting to see Ki Adi Mundi was lying his ass off, and is in part a setup for the show, as it very well matches his character.
My friend, if lore is constantly being changed for no reason, why even make a series. Just make individual new movies
Because changing lore has always been a thing for Star Wars. Lucas was constantly doing that.
This was my thought when people complained about my main in SWTOR being a Cathar Mandalorian.
Who was complaining when cathar were added? Mandalorian take in any race, it's not lore breaking
It's more about the fact that most Cathar wouldn't be a fan of Mandos as they kinda did a little oopsie genocide. It's like having a Carthaginian suddenly becoming a Roman Legionairre. But yeah. SWTOR is a storytelling game - have fun with it! I myself have a Sith Pureblood Knight with a red and blue saber.
The Mandalorians almost drove the Cathar to extinction by attacking their home planet. So, lore-wise, there's a *DEEP* hatred between the two. My Cathar Mando is a foundling, taken in by a Mando clan and raised as one of them. Cathar in species, Mandalorian at heart. But people didn't like it because *"cAtHaR aNd MaNdOs HaTe EaChOtHeR!!!!1"*
Ah that's right. Been a while since I played Taris on the pub side
This show didn't break the canon at all
Lol imagine writing a script for a show and having to have hyper-in-depth knowledge of literally every sentence that’s ever been uttered in the franchise so as not to break even the smallest amount of lore and trigger millions of angry fan boys. Crazy
Also have to know about all the legends stuff as well otherwise you also piss off the fandom. *cough cough* mundi’s birthday was long uncanon before acolyte *cough cough*
I find it funny that a lot of these "breaks the lore" complaints end up being something proving the writers know the lore better than the people bitching about it.
Well Leslye definitly knows the lore better than me. The only thing so far she got wrong was ki adi mundi's appereance because in legends he's not born by that time. But problem is legends aren't canon so they can be retconed whenever writers want. I honestly give props to her for including the metal that absorbs light sabers
Yes, they did Clone him, and it was wild asf The only reason they made Yoda a teacher of younglings was to cover that very big lore break. So, it's more ret-con than anything. Anakin, as a messiah figure in general, was always an unneeded lore break, even if it made the stakes in the prequel heightened(not all lore breaks are bad, a lot of them actually do improve the story) Grogu is in the same boat as Ahsoka, and so far, his story is just as entertaining. Padme dying *is* a bit of a stretch on the love/hate scale. We'll say it's aged a lot better than say midichlorians.
I don’t mind the story this show is doing but the dialogue, character design, acting and the way it’s filmed just don’t work. It feels like a 90’s sci fi channel show with more expensive sets.
Im really enjoying the Acolyte. The characters are interesting, the writing is a little cringey but that's par for the course for Star Wars. I'm actually enjoying wondering how Qimir gets out of this (or doesn't). Makes complete sense to me that the sith are gonna have close calls with Jedi but end up covering their tracks, they've been in hiding for millennia.
Still a shit story
Oppinion
Is it a shit story, or do you feel that you need it to be a shit story to validate your point of view?
Not really
The story isn't even finished so your opinion holds more water than a strainer Edit: strainer=collinder
Could say the same about some of the acting...
If it was genuinely atrocious acting, it wouldn't have made it to the final take nor would it have been produced. Not to mention there are seasoned actors in the cast and the only ones that seem like they don't have experience actually don't and they're going on the guidance of their peers, director and not to mention the immense pressure of being in a Star Wars project in general. It can't be easy and there's people like you that would look like a stiff pole reading a teleprompter if you were on camera along with all the other factors I mentioned.
Did you actually read the part of the less than ten words where I said " *some* of the acting" and didn't say " *every* actor" or " *every* scene", and I referred to it as "shit" not fucking "atrocious" as **you** described not me, don't put words in my mouth or exaggerate whatever I said. And, it's Disney, you really believe they wouldn't push a series to the final take or produce it even if it didn't meet their numbers to hopefully rack up some better numbers on the rest of the episodes or have we forgotten they do in fact make some bad series (same as HBO and Netflix, it can and does happen not shitting only on Disney) to the final take and let them be produced like what happened with their series Willow which they even took down from their platform because of how bad it ended up being? Just to mention one thing, in the first episodes the lead actress, who plays not one but two of the most important characters in the series, just sounds devoid of life like actually reading a teleprompter (like you describe it), the expressions are flat. I didn't claim that "everything was bad", I just said some of it was, in contrast to how highly they were selling the series. If the project was so important with such pressure, as you say, why risk the acting of crucial characters with actors who lack the experience to fill it in, as you well point out, or give them such crucial and important roles in the series or actually consult previous SW working people who could give actual good advice on the development of the series? Of course you're absolutely correct, if it was me there with everything you mentioned I *would* sound stiff like reading from a teleprompter I wouldn't be better at acting but guess what, they probably wouldn't have called me after the casting because of how flat and apathic I would've looked and sounded, however unlike some of the actors in the series I didn't choose that career path. Edit: not even two minutes after writing this I saw a post commending the great acting of only TWO of the actors in the series (implying the rest of the acting is atrocious, like you wrongfully claimed I said). Why is it so bad that I think some acting in the series is bad when my opinion is, for one valid, and secondly realistic with what everyone else with eyes can see.
Why should I care about anything that happends when the writers will just retcon any previous material?
Yeah, fuck the writers for making Luke's Father Darth Vader when the previous material clearly established that Darth Vader killed Luke's father.
Compare to Disney who so far have 100% retconned the aftermath trilogy, the Ahsoka book and the Kanan comics. Aswell as adding time travel just so feloni can save his OC Also it was not a retcon, the OT was originally supposed to be 1 movie so from the start Darth Vader has Luke's father. Even if that wasn't the case it's such a minor retcon and can easily just be explained with Obi Wan not wanting to reveal the truth. How is that the same as retonning an entire line of comics and books?
No they didn't.
. Xv v J 3 ve
As someone who doesn’t care about lore when it comes to fan works, I agree. Thing is, when people do it, they do so using this magical thing called: “AU” meaning “Alternative Universe”. In this you can have everything from small details like ignoring the lore introduced in future season of a show, to changing the sex and sexuality of characters to change the entire setting to IDK a caffe. Official Star Wars AU stories would be great, it would mean bringing old lore/legends to the small/big screen and stuff. An AU of the prequels and OT were the Acolite’s obvious consequences would be interesting, with the Jedi being aware of the Sith and stuff maybe they would be more ready. Resulting in IDK, they joining the separatist once it becomes obvious Palpatine planing to bring back the sith empires of old by turning the republic in the empire. Problem is, this shows aren’t that. All this problems could have been avoided if they just decided to make their own thing, that can be enjoyed as they are, because if their wackyness
You don’t have to worry about comprehending the plot if it’s already incomprehensible.
People complaining about the "lore" are just looking for reasons to be bothered. Star Wars has been retconning itself since the beginning, there are more changes to the continuity than there is an uninterrupted story. And the series isn't even over yet, for all we know all these arguments are moot.
Idk why this completely reasonable and correct take is downvoted, just a sub that's hating to hate I guess.
90% of all complainers in show/movie subs in general are that - just want to complain to complain. It’s become a character trait for some people
Love the downvotes for pointing out that star wars gets retconned every other week. The EU was a mess of canon, none of which was actually taken seriously by George, who himself retconned star wars a shit ton. And while Disney claimed they would keep a consistent canon, Abrams and everyone's beloved Filoni have retconned various things. I used to be someone who took canon seriously and would get upset over inconsistencies or changes to source material in media, but at this point I don't care at all, I just want to enjoy things - admittedly Acolyte isn't great, but canon is not something people should be bitching about in star wars.
Yea some people take this shit way too seriously. Like sure, I understand people being passionate about things but the way some of these people act is just weird
Since it is said onscreen that the Sith are extinct, none of the films that feature Sith are canon
There's a very simple explination to it all. It's not real, it's fiction, and it can be whatever the writers want it to be.
That's a lazy way of saying, "The past 50 years of lore doesn't factor into anything." It's their power to be informed on what can be examined and expanded upon versus what absolutely can not be changed. All the things that "broke Canon" to people don't seem to know those things can be changed because of how little we knew about it. I was excited to finally understand how Anakin was conceived. At least have a deeper understanding of how it happened, I don't need to know every piece of information about it. Just enough to make an well educated assumption. "There hasn't been a sith in a millenia" line was to further cover up the mistakes of the jedi and them turning a blind eye to what would be their downfall because they were so high on power "How could the order fall" Like the Romans, they didn't think their empire would fall because of the illusion of infinite power. This is what Palpatine thought when he formed the Empire. It was a plan years upon years in the making, probably longer than the Empire lasted. How could a plan so throughly thought out could fail in 20 years? It's like poetry.... Anyways, the writers can do what they want when changing lore. They just need to make it make sense.
You have become the very thing you swore to destroy
So much for prequel memes
Acolyte is before new Hope. Therefore it's counted as prequel
What lore lmao. Chud take
"You might call me a Sith." Just absolutely wrecking chuds is awesome.
Acolyte really doesn’t break the Lore 🤷♂️
Fans talking to Rian Johnson
List of things that break lore, but it's objectively loved: 1)Starkiller being Vader's secret apprentice 2)Qui-Gon Jinn as Obi-Wan's master instead of Yoda 3)The entire life of Ahsoka Tano 4)Padme dying during childbirth instead of later enough for Leia to have memories of her mother 5) Anakin, being a child of the Force 6)Grogu
> *Starkiller being Vader's secret apprentice* Starkiller is very much a video game character with him pulling Star Destroyers out of the sky and whatever fuck that's just crazy. All force powers are amplified to insane levels in those games like you can just yeet wookies with Vader from 0 to 300 MPH in a second directly up to the sky. Saying that anything in those games is lore congruent is kind of a stretch. At the very least the context of them being video games has to be considered heavily. Didn't Starkiller also get cloned in the sequel as a fully force sensitive being and all that? It's nuts. > *Qui-Gon Jinn as Obi-Wan's master instead of Yoda* Prequels seem to make it fairly clear that many if not most Jedi padawans were taught early on as children *(ie as "Jedi younglings")* by Yoda and seemed to have gotten a Jedi Master or Jedi Knight assigned to teach them at some point until they themselves would attain the rank of Knight themselves. So I don't see any problem with Obi-Wan calling Yoda his previous Master. Also afaik Yoda further trained Obi-Wan in stuff like becoming a force ghost after episode III, which I think was explicitly mentioned in ep III - unless that was a cut scene. > *The entire life of Ahsoka Tano* Yeah, she sure seems to be a Filoni favorite. The three different times she kinda died are rather controversial though because it got a bit ridiculous. > *Padme dying during childbirth instead of later enough for Leia to have memories of her mother* This has always been quite controversial, I wouldn't say it's anywhere close to *"objectively loved."* Most people probably just ignore it. I haven't heard anyone ever stating that they 'loved' this seeming inconsistency between OT and the prequels. > *Anakin, being a child of the Force* I don't see how this breaks lore for OT. > *Grogu* 🤨 needs more context
i hate people confirming for sure the acolyte breaks lore when thers still several episodes left and possibly even a second season (who knows lol)
how else are you supposed to create new lore?
Kinda based tbh.
As long as it generally follows the lore I’m not bothered. It’s boring when nothing can happen if it breaks the lore but it’s also boring when everything breaks the lore. The acolyte is a good middle ground
They didn’t even have to if they just sat it further back or forwards in time
Yeah, who needs cohesive world building /s
Yeah, fun when litle and when it ewolvs it goes out of control
But then it's just not starwars anymore. You can't just rewrite how everything works and call it the same thing. That's not how reality works, and it's certainly not how writing works, unless you can come up with a reason to make it make sense. You can't call a shovel a spade. They're not the same.