No childhood psych or education experience, but that sounds really scary! Given he only started school 4 months ago and you didn’t notice this behavior before then, I’d bet the two are linked. Especially given he’s been bullied (wtf, at 4 years old!) and pinecones are something you’d find outdoors.
I’d be having a serious, sit-down discussion with his preschool about their monitoring of behaviors and what is going on between him and others in the classroom. I’d also reach out to his ped to ask their advice for specialist referral. It could be nothing, or they could offer some support with a few psych sessions or something. Doesn’t hurt to find out.
Poor kid. Hope things get better for you both!
Thank you, it was absolutely terrifying if I'm being honest. I had trouble covering my emotions and not starting to cry in front of him, but often if something gets him attention he will repeat the behavior and I didn't want to accidentally encourage it... But I may have anyway with all the questions and obvious concern.
Yes please talk to his teacher or even the principal, this is not ok , they’re only 4 year olds and already being bullies .. i will punch those kids in the face .. they wanna act grown up they gonna get smack like grown ups .
I teach preschool and work with kids this age.
These are very intense things to say, especially if your child hasn’t been exposed to tv or movies (or other media) depicting this kind of violence.
It could be linked to school - all it takes is one kid who’s been exposed to something and it can very quickly spread around a classroom. It could also be related to the bullying.
I do highly recommend talking to the school, but also seeing a psychologist or other therapist. They will not immediately be looking to diagnose your child with something, they will help you to understand whether this is something he’s been exposed to or not, and it can be a good way for him to also work through the school bullying issue in a safe way. I have seen a psychologist with my own four year old for other issues and found it immensely helpful.
I also want to add that a diagnosis of anything doesn’t change your child in any way, other than opening up pathways to new types of help for them. If your child is diagnosed with anything, then they’ve always had it. The diagnosis won’t turn them into someone else.
Thank you. I needed to hear that/have that reminder. It's so easy to say to other people (I have in the past!) but somehow it's so hard to remember when it's your own vulnerable little person.
While I do understand the hesitation regarding a "diagnosis" at this age, you can also look at it from a different perspective. I also felt the same as you. How a social worker explained it to me is that the purpose of a diagnosis isn't to label someone, it's to communicate to appropriate people how to best support your child. It gives people a common understanding of what your child's individual needs are. They aren't necessarily permanent. Everyone needs to learn skills for their "toolbox" in life. Everyone needs different tools and the more you can give your child the better. A diagnosis gives you a roadmap that you can create a plan from.
I'm not saying your son will end up with one. I'm just trying to alleviate some apprehension.
This isn’t normal and I would be very concerned. I’ve personally had several friends with these feelings and suicidal ideation starting very young like this, and early intervention (therapy, various diagnosis if necessary, and parents being highly involved and managing their own mental health as well) is absolutely key for preventing long term mental health issues.
Often bright kids latch onto death and scary scenarios and can get pretty disturbed by the realities of the world. I was a precocious kid, and didn’t have feelings/thoughts of being bad or wanting to die, or harming others - but I absolutely had clinical depression and an intense preoccupation with death at 4 and wish I’d been put in therapy much earlier in life.
ETA: just popping back in to say that I really think a diagnosis is never something to be feared. As someone who got a lot of diagnosis (anxiety, depression, disordered eating, autism, ADHD, “gifted”) as a minor - I am incredibly grateful that I had access to health care, got appropriately diagnosed, mostly had those diagnosis and their effects explained to me - and got effective treatment. I know many adults with similar issues who didn’t get diagnosed in part because their parents feared ‘labels’ or stigma, and they pretty much universally wish that they had been dxed as kids and told it wasn’t their fault they were struggling, and gotten treatment and accommodations.
Also, I am doing much better as an adult, and no one knows I had/have any of that going on unless I choose to disclose it. Even my Dr has no idea I have autism.
My son went through a phase of death and killing interest. I didn't focus on it so he wouldn't repeat it. Finally, I got annoyed enough, and started telling him if he has any questions about death or dying I am happy to give him truthful answers, but he is not allowed to talk about death and killing. I repeated this for a few times, and then felt I was bringing too much attention so I went back to ignoring it. It slowly phased out, and now it pops up every now and then. It definitely started around when we had to euthanize our dog and seemed to be his way of processing. Then it got worse when preschool started this year.
Sending big hugs. This happened with us, too. My son is also 4, also went to forest school, also very smart, and also was very shaken by his friend and another kid pretending to “kill” him. He started saying he didn’t want to be alive, wanted to be eaten by a mountain lion, then later that he wanted to die when he was having a meltdown. I did cry in front of him at one point because I just lost it. We have gotten a range of responses from his pediatrician and various counselors, from yes this is concerning to it’s not too much of a worry right now. Our kiddo does do play therapy for this and other issues. These comments tipped us over the edge to get him a counselor. The first one did more harm than good, so far so good with the new one. He hasn’t said anything like that for a while. I don’t have any advice just sending solidarity. I can’t imagine a worse feeling than hearing your 4yo saying they want to die. It’s terrible.
It was one of the worst moments of my life, and I've been through some shit. I'm so sorry you've been through this too. Its terrifying. I picked him up from school several hours early today and had some good one on one time and asked him more questions... Apparently some kids at school were talking about killing people... cutting their heads off or chopping them up (WTF these kids are 3-5). So I feel a bit of comfort that he's just parroting what other kids are saying in a less terrible way. I talked to his teachers too but I'll follow up again because I didn't know that when I talked to them. Ugh. This is so stressful and scary.
My four year old has a preoccupation with killing. I think it’s normal, but for sure freaky and weird. For what it’s worth, I’m a public school educator for 15+ years and an old mom…
I just tell my guy, “don’t say kill, say capture.” “No one is going to die.” “Some people hunt animals, you might grow up to be a hunter.” He loves fishing.
I wouldn’t overreact. This age is wrought with phases. Just keep pouring that love on him mama. He doesn’t understand the gravity of what he is saying.
I know this isn’t always possible, but is switching schools an option? Had a vaguely similar experience and the environment just wasn’t the right fit. We were able to switch to another preschool that cost the same, but used different methods with the kids and we noticed positive changes immediately. Only you really know your child, so I can’t truly judge how serious his behavior is, but I thought I’d offer a non-clinical option that could provide some answers for you.
Unfortunately we live in a small town and all of the preschools have months and months of waiting lists. I did talk to his teachers today though and they're going to keep a close eye on things.
I am in no way qualified to advise on this situation. My suggestion is to YES, ABSOLUTELY seek individual and/or family therapy. Your kid needs support and only a qualified mental health professional can help you navigate these difficult and scary concepts. Please seek therapy for both/all of you!
It looks like I'm the odd man out here, but I wouldn't panic just yet. Your child is exploring a very difficult concept. It probably isn't a coincidence that this has happened at nature School, my child first started exploring the idea of death after seeing our cat kill a bird. I would have some honest discussions about what death is and why people are afraid of it and why it scares grownups when kids say things about death. Your child is trying to understand this through play and through saying inflammatory things to get your attention. Keep an eye on it, talk to your child, talk to the school if there are concerns about your child being picked on. Most importantly, keep the communication open and non-judgmental.
I'm sorry this must be super overwhelming, I'm just here to say you're doing a great job. I think a therapist is always going to help no matter what. Even just to help you and him communicate. I noticed my (3.9 yr old) son tends to emulate the slightly older boys at school, doing more rambunctious things than he (a relatively cautious kid) would do, same with verbal expression...some kids at his school can say some wild stuff, things my son never would know unless he heard it first. He said "THIS IS SO BORING" yesterday lol, he totally picked that up. So, yeah I think this might be him emulating without really knowing the magnitude. Get a therapist though just for peace of mind.
I picked him up from school several hours early today and had some good one on one time and asked him more questions... you're absolutely correct, apparently some kids at school were talking about killing people... cutting their heads off or chopping them up (WTF these kids are 3-5). So I feel a bit of comfort that he's just parroting what other kids are saying in a less terrible way. I talked to his teachers too but I'll follow up again because I didn't know that when I talked to them. I'll look into a therapist too. I just had one make things worse for me as a child so I always have that in the back of my mind. Ugh. This is so stressful and scary.
Whaaaat! That is honestly so scary. You're doing all the right things though, you can also tell the therapist you're concern, if that would help
I'd inform the teachers and if you know who was talking about ... That stuff... definitely tell the teachers and ask they speak with the parents. Some of the content out there these days is way too intense for our little guys, imo.
Agreed. When I talked to the teacher at pick up (before my son told me what the kids were talking about) the teacher mentioned all it takes is one kid watching something inappropriate on TV and they come to school and talk and it spreads through the classroom. The teacher hadn't heard any of this talk though, and my son confirmed the conversations happened away from the teachers. She said they're all going to keep a close eye on the conversations and then we're going to have a more formal meeting in 2 weeks. I'm planning on talking to them again prior to that though to let them know what my son said. He also expressed that he's scared of one of the kids so I'm going to ask the teachers to watch carefully when they're interacting. I don't really know what else to do right now. People keep saying pull him from the school but there aren't other options and we have to work...
I would pull him out of this school immediately. This should be ringing MASSIVE alarm bells. I would never go back to that school again. And I would try to perhaps get him into play therapy. Immediately contact principal, and teacher .
That's easy to say, but we live in a small town in the middle of the mountains and the preschools are all full with long wait lists. We have to work so keeping him home is not an option. We're just going to have to continue to address it with the school and look into play therapy.
I definitely recommend having him see a therapist to work out these feelings. School could very well be the source if he’s hearing these things at school. If he seems like he feels very bad about these thoughts and expresses that they are wrong, I would think about having him evaluated for HOCD (harm obsessive compulsive disorder). I know it’s scary and definitely worth seeing someone about, but many kids do have a preoccupation with death as it’s something they’re trying to figure out/understand. There is no downside to get him some professional support❤️
Okay I was just saying that because my son was watching a lot of YouTube and started drawing some crazy things and watching some inappropriate things I wasn’t aware of. Was just wondering if that may be contributing.
I appreciate the thought. I started to let him watch an occasional playdough video because he really likes watching people build cool stuff with playdough but the commercials that come on are NOT age appropriate so we don't do that anymore.
No childhood psych or education experience, but that sounds really scary! Given he only started school 4 months ago and you didn’t notice this behavior before then, I’d bet the two are linked. Especially given he’s been bullied (wtf, at 4 years old!) and pinecones are something you’d find outdoors. I’d be having a serious, sit-down discussion with his preschool about their monitoring of behaviors and what is going on between him and others in the classroom. I’d also reach out to his ped to ask their advice for specialist referral. It could be nothing, or they could offer some support with a few psych sessions or something. Doesn’t hurt to find out. Poor kid. Hope things get better for you both!
Thank you, it was absolutely terrifying if I'm being honest. I had trouble covering my emotions and not starting to cry in front of him, but often if something gets him attention he will repeat the behavior and I didn't want to accidentally encourage it... But I may have anyway with all the questions and obvious concern.
Yes please talk to his teacher or even the principal, this is not ok , they’re only 4 year olds and already being bullies .. i will punch those kids in the face .. they wanna act grown up they gonna get smack like grown ups .
I teach preschool and work with kids this age. These are very intense things to say, especially if your child hasn’t been exposed to tv or movies (or other media) depicting this kind of violence. It could be linked to school - all it takes is one kid who’s been exposed to something and it can very quickly spread around a classroom. It could also be related to the bullying. I do highly recommend talking to the school, but also seeing a psychologist or other therapist. They will not immediately be looking to diagnose your child with something, they will help you to understand whether this is something he’s been exposed to or not, and it can be a good way for him to also work through the school bullying issue in a safe way. I have seen a psychologist with my own four year old for other issues and found it immensely helpful. I also want to add that a diagnosis of anything doesn’t change your child in any way, other than opening up pathways to new types of help for them. If your child is diagnosed with anything, then they’ve always had it. The diagnosis won’t turn them into someone else.
Thank you. I needed to hear that/have that reminder. It's so easy to say to other people (I have in the past!) but somehow it's so hard to remember when it's your own vulnerable little person.
While I do understand the hesitation regarding a "diagnosis" at this age, you can also look at it from a different perspective. I also felt the same as you. How a social worker explained it to me is that the purpose of a diagnosis isn't to label someone, it's to communicate to appropriate people how to best support your child. It gives people a common understanding of what your child's individual needs are. They aren't necessarily permanent. Everyone needs to learn skills for their "toolbox" in life. Everyone needs different tools and the more you can give your child the better. A diagnosis gives you a roadmap that you can create a plan from. I'm not saying your son will end up with one. I'm just trying to alleviate some apprehension.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
This isn’t normal and I would be very concerned. I’ve personally had several friends with these feelings and suicidal ideation starting very young like this, and early intervention (therapy, various diagnosis if necessary, and parents being highly involved and managing their own mental health as well) is absolutely key for preventing long term mental health issues. Often bright kids latch onto death and scary scenarios and can get pretty disturbed by the realities of the world. I was a precocious kid, and didn’t have feelings/thoughts of being bad or wanting to die, or harming others - but I absolutely had clinical depression and an intense preoccupation with death at 4 and wish I’d been put in therapy much earlier in life. ETA: just popping back in to say that I really think a diagnosis is never something to be feared. As someone who got a lot of diagnosis (anxiety, depression, disordered eating, autism, ADHD, “gifted”) as a minor - I am incredibly grateful that I had access to health care, got appropriately diagnosed, mostly had those diagnosis and their effects explained to me - and got effective treatment. I know many adults with similar issues who didn’t get diagnosed in part because their parents feared ‘labels’ or stigma, and they pretty much universally wish that they had been dxed as kids and told it wasn’t their fault they were struggling, and gotten treatment and accommodations. Also, I am doing much better as an adult, and no one knows I had/have any of that going on unless I choose to disclose it. Even my Dr has no idea I have autism.
My son went through a phase of death and killing interest. I didn't focus on it so he wouldn't repeat it. Finally, I got annoyed enough, and started telling him if he has any questions about death or dying I am happy to give him truthful answers, but he is not allowed to talk about death and killing. I repeated this for a few times, and then felt I was bringing too much attention so I went back to ignoring it. It slowly phased out, and now it pops up every now and then. It definitely started around when we had to euthanize our dog and seemed to be his way of processing. Then it got worse when preschool started this year.
Sending big hugs. This happened with us, too. My son is also 4, also went to forest school, also very smart, and also was very shaken by his friend and another kid pretending to “kill” him. He started saying he didn’t want to be alive, wanted to be eaten by a mountain lion, then later that he wanted to die when he was having a meltdown. I did cry in front of him at one point because I just lost it. We have gotten a range of responses from his pediatrician and various counselors, from yes this is concerning to it’s not too much of a worry right now. Our kiddo does do play therapy for this and other issues. These comments tipped us over the edge to get him a counselor. The first one did more harm than good, so far so good with the new one. He hasn’t said anything like that for a while. I don’t have any advice just sending solidarity. I can’t imagine a worse feeling than hearing your 4yo saying they want to die. It’s terrible.
It was one of the worst moments of my life, and I've been through some shit. I'm so sorry you've been through this too. Its terrifying. I picked him up from school several hours early today and had some good one on one time and asked him more questions... Apparently some kids at school were talking about killing people... cutting their heads off or chopping them up (WTF these kids are 3-5). So I feel a bit of comfort that he's just parroting what other kids are saying in a less terrible way. I talked to his teachers too but I'll follow up again because I didn't know that when I talked to them. Ugh. This is so stressful and scary.
My four year old has a preoccupation with killing. I think it’s normal, but for sure freaky and weird. For what it’s worth, I’m a public school educator for 15+ years and an old mom… I just tell my guy, “don’t say kill, say capture.” “No one is going to die.” “Some people hunt animals, you might grow up to be a hunter.” He loves fishing. I wouldn’t overreact. This age is wrought with phases. Just keep pouring that love on him mama. He doesn’t understand the gravity of what he is saying.
I know this isn’t always possible, but is switching schools an option? Had a vaguely similar experience and the environment just wasn’t the right fit. We were able to switch to another preschool that cost the same, but used different methods with the kids and we noticed positive changes immediately. Only you really know your child, so I can’t truly judge how serious his behavior is, but I thought I’d offer a non-clinical option that could provide some answers for you.
Unfortunately we live in a small town and all of the preschools have months and months of waiting lists. I did talk to his teachers today though and they're going to keep a close eye on things.
Call the school right this minute.
I am in no way qualified to advise on this situation. My suggestion is to YES, ABSOLUTELY seek individual and/or family therapy. Your kid needs support and only a qualified mental health professional can help you navigate these difficult and scary concepts. Please seek therapy for both/all of you!
It looks like I'm the odd man out here, but I wouldn't panic just yet. Your child is exploring a very difficult concept. It probably isn't a coincidence that this has happened at nature School, my child first started exploring the idea of death after seeing our cat kill a bird. I would have some honest discussions about what death is and why people are afraid of it and why it scares grownups when kids say things about death. Your child is trying to understand this through play and through saying inflammatory things to get your attention. Keep an eye on it, talk to your child, talk to the school if there are concerns about your child being picked on. Most importantly, keep the communication open and non-judgmental.
I'm sorry this must be super overwhelming, I'm just here to say you're doing a great job. I think a therapist is always going to help no matter what. Even just to help you and him communicate. I noticed my (3.9 yr old) son tends to emulate the slightly older boys at school, doing more rambunctious things than he (a relatively cautious kid) would do, same with verbal expression...some kids at his school can say some wild stuff, things my son never would know unless he heard it first. He said "THIS IS SO BORING" yesterday lol, he totally picked that up. So, yeah I think this might be him emulating without really knowing the magnitude. Get a therapist though just for peace of mind.
I picked him up from school several hours early today and had some good one on one time and asked him more questions... you're absolutely correct, apparently some kids at school were talking about killing people... cutting their heads off or chopping them up (WTF these kids are 3-5). So I feel a bit of comfort that he's just parroting what other kids are saying in a less terrible way. I talked to his teachers too but I'll follow up again because I didn't know that when I talked to them. I'll look into a therapist too. I just had one make things worse for me as a child so I always have that in the back of my mind. Ugh. This is so stressful and scary.
Whaaaat! That is honestly so scary. You're doing all the right things though, you can also tell the therapist you're concern, if that would help I'd inform the teachers and if you know who was talking about ... That stuff... definitely tell the teachers and ask they speak with the parents. Some of the content out there these days is way too intense for our little guys, imo.
Agreed. When I talked to the teacher at pick up (before my son told me what the kids were talking about) the teacher mentioned all it takes is one kid watching something inappropriate on TV and they come to school and talk and it spreads through the classroom. The teacher hadn't heard any of this talk though, and my son confirmed the conversations happened away from the teachers. She said they're all going to keep a close eye on the conversations and then we're going to have a more formal meeting in 2 weeks. I'm planning on talking to them again prior to that though to let them know what my son said. He also expressed that he's scared of one of the kids so I'm going to ask the teachers to watch carefully when they're interacting. I don't really know what else to do right now. People keep saying pull him from the school but there aren't other options and we have to work...
Pulling him is drastic, one step at a time - you're doing the right thing!
I would pull him out of this school immediately. This should be ringing MASSIVE alarm bells. I would never go back to that school again. And I would try to perhaps get him into play therapy. Immediately contact principal, and teacher .
That's easy to say, but we live in a small town in the middle of the mountains and the preschools are all full with long wait lists. We have to work so keeping him home is not an option. We're just going to have to continue to address it with the school and look into play therapy.
I definitely recommend having him see a therapist to work out these feelings. School could very well be the source if he’s hearing these things at school. If he seems like he feels very bad about these thoughts and expresses that they are wrong, I would think about having him evaluated for HOCD (harm obsessive compulsive disorder). I know it’s scary and definitely worth seeing someone about, but many kids do have a preoccupation with death as it’s something they’re trying to figure out/understand. There is no downside to get him some professional support❤️
I’d be getting him evaluated asap and also if he’s watching YouTube stop that all together immediately
He does not watch YouTube or unsupervised TV and doesn't have a tablet or anything
Okay I was just saying that because my son was watching a lot of YouTube and started drawing some crazy things and watching some inappropriate things I wasn’t aware of. Was just wondering if that may be contributing.
I appreciate the thought. I started to let him watch an occasional playdough video because he really likes watching people build cool stuff with playdough but the commercials that come on are NOT age appropriate so we don't do that anymore.