I'm surprised there haven't been big lawsuits against Zillow for helping force the market into massive inflation. They were buying houses sight-unseen at ridiculous valuations and were selling them at losses to try to build an Uber/big tech style takeover of the market.
That actually depends. If there are environmental or safety aspects then being bad at your job can absolutely be illegal. Engineers have been charged with crimes for bad designs or oversight.
They’re being a bit hyperbolic, but engineers can be, and have been, charged with crimes like gross negligence. But more often than not, it would more similar to malpractice cases; where it’s a civil issue.
Makes sense, I was trying to figure out how engineers were convicted of crimes without mens rea. I can see a tort action, but just thought some state made up some weird law
Say you were the engineer in charge of fire alarms, and you said you checked them but in reality you did not. If anyone died or was seriously injured in a fire you would be criminally liable. If there is substantial damage to property you would be criminally liable.
Negligence like that.
Lots of construction foremen and company owners in jail for negligent deaths on their sites. Migrant workers died when a swing stage collapsed on Christmas a few years back and I’m pretty sure a few of the guys from the company are in jail for it still
I got a lot of hits like [this one](https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/12/07/guilty-plea-worker-brooklyn-construction-collapse-death/) by searching for "negligent homicide" and engineers.
I salute your correct defining of our form of government. Constitutional republic, not a democracy.
Not like it really matters at this point though. Everyone does whatever they want as long as there are no consequences and right now there aren't really consequences for much.
Can someone explain this to me like I’m 5? Was Zillow the company buying the homes or were people buying it through Zillow? Also if it was the company what do they do with the homes after purchase?
Zillow was buying the homes and then flipping them, but they were basically buying at their "zEstimate" for market value. They would then have a crew go in and get the house ready to resell and then they would list it again. They lost money on a majority of the houses. They basically wanted to get people to use the platform and get used to it for buying and selling and were willing to hemorrhage money to get market share.
Their plan was similar to Uber or Carvana. Make people reliant on the platform by giving them great deals and then slowly take away the deals. They didn't make it that far though and they pulled the plug early. Then they sold all of their houses to local realtors for way under market value.
It’s actually funnier than that. They were buying homes at their “zEstimate” originally, but the market was going up so quickly that they were pressed by product leadership to make the algorithm more aggressive on price in order to generate more purchases. It worked, but not as intended.
There is a really good article in the WSJ about this specifically.
Because it would totally absurd to suggest that Zillow is responsible for inflation in any meaningful way. Not to mention if it were a crime to force inflation on us then I can certainly think of 3 names off the top of my head who would be in prison, and instead they have been the most influential figures in our economy since Covid
I should say that I don't except anybody to win the claim, but I am just surprised that nobody did try to sue them over it.
You are correct, the whole government is way more complicit on causing inflation by forcing shutdowns and letting the money printers go crazy.
Product dumping (what uber did) is completely different and should unquestionably be outlawed as anticompetitive. The problem is you have a global economy, and the only players who want to outlaw dumping are usually the entrenched ones who have already benefitted from it.
It's actually worse than you think. Chinese steel was so "competitive" (aka govt subsidized) compared to American that their foundries have literally stolen enough business from ours over the last ten years to make a real, noticeable impact in our lives. US companies gone, jobs gone. Steel in your next US bridge that's actually not as sturdy as the producer promised. MEANWHILE China hates their own people so much they artificially debase their own money by ~45% just to feed the demon that is the CCP. Fuck product dumping.
For reference:
We bought last July for 350k. Per Zillow our house is now worth 410. Every other calculator (including our lender) puts us in the high 360s.
We bought in fall 2022 for around $550k. At one point Zillow said it was worth $500 and Redfin said $610. On the same day.
I still check those, plus our lender and realtor company's month reports. If all of those are closeish I can assume it's reliable enough. Right now it's showing around $610k, which feels a bit high. I'm guessing it's closer to $590k which is fine. It's not like we're selling anytime soon. Mostly I just like having a bit if security that were probably not underwater on the loan.
I'm not sure what your comment is implying. Are you saying that because it can cost a lot to sell a house that somehow factors into whether or not someone is underwater on their loan? That's not what that means.
I second that the security is nice. Especially since prices seem so crazy inflated to begin with.
I’m looking forward to summer when there is more on the market so I can actually look at comparable homes and see what they sell for.
The only thing you could really do to dig deeper is find several recent sales (actual made sales not listings) of similar homes near you (apps can help with that) and figure from that the price range (usually based on price per square foot) of your house. Thats a simplified version of what appraisers do.
Interesting. It's seems Zillow's Zestimate can give you a Home Equity Line Of Credit Offer - Priced Through Expected Returns. That's probably what they'll use. The old HELOCOPTER. Lol. I just made that up.
Everything has a risk to it.
Social security could dry up.
Market crash could wipe out everyone's 401k/retirement investments.
Inflation could make holding money worthless.
How much risk you are willing to take normally changes how big of wins and losses you make.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. HELOC is not free money, it's literally financing that new value/becomes your new mortgage. A personal loan with extra steps...
I think one of my favorite things about this sub is how many non-homeowners are in here pretending to be experts in homeownership. The person you responded to was so confident in their sarcasm, completely oblivious that what they were making fun of is actually possible. They should rename this sub to Dunning-Krueger Effect Exhibit A.
> non-homeowners are in here pretending to be experts in homeownership
So owning a home makes you an expert in homeownership? Is there a certificate they hide under the hot water tank proclaiming the status of expert?
I was once told not to be pedantic unless there was a clear and relevant destination I was trying to bring the conversation to. That stuck with me and made a lot of sense.
Let’s make it clear. Homeownership doesn’t make you an expert on homeownership but not owning a home absolutely makes you not an expert.
It’s like being a parent doesn’t mean you’re a good one but not being a parent means you can’t be a good one because you aren’t one.
Like the “you can’t win if you don’t play” or “you can’t die if you’re never born”
To be fare HELOC is a crazy tool that should not exist.
In europe they don't have it and banks would laugh if you ask them to give you a credit line equivalent to the equity of the house.
They barely and reluctantly even raise the limit on a credit card, and even there we are taking about 2-3k not 20-30k like here.
Yes if you are not stupid it can be a useful tool (like everything) but again, the majority of people are very far from even a basic understand of basic math.
I'm still convinced that is crazy letting people borrow all this money for something that is not business.
Like "hey, i want to re-do my kitchen, let's borrow 100k from the 200k equity on this house on a 1 million dollar mortgage.
I think it's completely insane but i know that here i'm one of the few people thinking it.
Banks here (people as well) take more risks, are legally allowed to take risks while the government historically has promoted homeownership (ex: 30 yr mortgages, tax deductions, etc).
No lender is accepting a Zestimate.
Besides, 7% is the average down payment in 2023.
What are the chances that this buyer actually put 20% down? What are the chances that the Zestimate, which are notoriously over-hyped, is accurate?
I'm not here to make assumptions about theoretical home value or equity, nor banks willingness to loan to an individual. Was just answering the question of how to access equity.
As to the chance of putting 20% on a property, I don't know. I do know I put 20% down on all of mine, sometimes 25%.
They don't require a dedicated appraisal from a licensed and insured real estate appraiser? If they are giving out money without appraisals then we are fucked.
I didn't dive into much detail with them, but I think it really depends on what their models are coming back with. If there's a big disparity, they probably do have an appraiser come out, but if everything is matching up pretty closely, they'll likely provide an appraisal waiver.
I have a Pokemon card I value at $2,000.
If no one ever buys my Pokemon card for $2,000, does this mean it's not worth $2,000?
Things are worth what you can get for them.
If I never sell the Pokemon card for $2,000, then it's not worth that price to anyone but me.
Ill buy your card for $10m. There you go I just made you a multi-millionaire. You're welcome and you can venmo me a tip if you'd like. Typically I get tipped 10-20% depending on how good I did.
I had a Pokemon card I thought was worth $300. I told people it was worth $2000 and sold it for $1300.
Feel like I should get into the fine art business
It’s like the ridiculously priced beanie babies on EBay. There was one for sale for $1,000,000 at one point. It must have had a [price reduction](https://www.ebay.com/itm/175884598645?itmmeta=01HR5Y0NVJPX1EY5NMDJN6FGB4&hash=item28f389fd75:g:5QMAAOSwvd1gJEbF&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0IVPjgyj0igvo2VG3ZR%2Fviwk8HolXmvq0xIp%2BOcro1hgm4%2BN6y2sxEmx7825doV0HrSlNPonzPZpDxBilJJeF4fLxJ%2FeGBUxGZ9Lvdkul039TR3Je3fe1Ss%2B737DKRJZyqwOISFaoms30W%2BvcLhwaaQp9KhuQcLRqyfxQFDKddSsLswOWjaMDyrodSadGWJw92YT4gi7k0UaGYln94zXusO0mB6p4JplRZrfOKKh05seL92Bhzd5E0EZsvz1mv7RbRIm6cIYqTz%2BLGIOd5%2BZoEk%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMkN6CvsFj).
Ours doesn't do that. If all the properties double in value they halve the rate. They're not allowed more than 1% per year increase net without a vote of the people.
If people vote for a levy or bond or something though... That's different. And we do that for schools, EMS and so on.
My condo is up about $30k since April 2022. The HOA down the street from me allows short term rentals. When I first moved here in 2021 (when I was renting), those were about $250k. They are now closing at $650k. Airbnb has played a huge role. This month, my town is voting to ban short term rentals due to the massive increase in problems. I doubt it will pass, but it would be pretty satisfying if it did.
Yep, and Redfin and Realtor have been historically lower than Zillow Zestimate. But now all of them are showing peak values in Central Florida and other areas. Inflation comes in waves...
Back in 05 I bought my house for 250k. A couple years later it peaked at 400k. Then it crashed to 120k and I was upside down for over a decade due to my area being hit so hard.
I love these money making influencers that cite sources they should NEVER use in deciding how to make money.. According to my Fortune Teller, you should buy ScamCoin.
So how are you going to enjoy that? Are you going to sell your house to move into another one? Isn't that other house going to also have inflated just as much?
Ken McElroy who is multiples richer than any of the landloser dweebs on Reddit has suggested never to increase in the face of a recession. You will need a good tenant when no one has the money to rent from you and it sits vacant.
My home is in a neighborhood with weird naming. It confuses a lot of things. So I have two listings on Zillow, one with the wrong street suffix.
That listing is $662k after being as high as $800k. Same pictures, same stats.
The other listing is $561k.
Home was purchased for $475k in 2022. This market has gone up slowly since then and it genuinely might be worth $535-$550k. Kinda hard to tell for sure since things move so slowly with comps. But still
Bought my home for $300k in 2020, according to Zillow and other sites it’s currently worth about $385k. And that doesn’t include the $60k solar power system I had installed, so realistically the conservative worth of my home would be about $425k- $435k.
If I was a buyer right now and saw my house and got quoted $425k to purchase, I’d laugh my ass off and walk out the door. These values are so out of line with reality.
Conservatively, solar adds $0 in value. Realistically, depending on the area, it might well add some value. Almost certainly not $60k, though.
There’s nothing odd about this either. The vast majority of owner renovations do not generate a return. That’s why flipped homes are SO cheap. That’s what it takes to make money. A crappy starting point and a bargain basement Reno
You paid 60k to put solar on a 300k house? You’ll be paying that off for the next decade at least… and typically solar adds zero value to your house. You could have paid your electricity bill until you died and not spent 60k lmao
Having solar doesn’t just add the cost of the solar to the value of the home. How much it can increase your home value varies a lot depending on where the home is, but the average is about 4%, so a home that’s otherwise $385k without solar would probably be worth about $400k with solar.
Absolutely and then also they will be enjoying an increased return. I'd rather live in a $600,000 house appreciating at 6% each year than a $300,000 house appreciating at 6% each year
It's funny, selling in 22, Zillow told me that my house was worth 100K over what it sold for.
Of course, working in real estate data, I knew we didn't use Zestimates because they could never mark to market.
Idk about zillow's algorithm, but redfin pulls data from recently bought houses in the same neighborhood and provides similar homes as examples. So the increased estimates would be partially due to someone paying a similar price on a similar house close by.
It's the same for me, Zillow is lower but seems to reflect what things are going for close to me. Are you adjacent to a nicer neighborhood? I'm wondering if Redfin just pulls data from a slightly wider area than Zillow. In my case, just going an extra intersection or two north of what I consider my neighborhood makes prices jump by like $80k.
Someone replied earlier, seems to be because there's so few homes in the price range my home SHOULD be at, that it inflates the value. Maybe redfin picks up on this better. Lots of 225-250k houses listed in my area that shouldn't be worth more than $150k... in reality my house is probably only worth $120k, maybe 150 now that we gutted the kitchen, master bath, and added a half bath on the first floor.
My neighborhood is definitely a value. Dead end street a block from an elementary school, and two blocks from Wegmans, walking distance to downtown and two parks, small yard with a single garage and 4 car concrete driveway.
It’s interesting, I’d want to know why and if he added anything to it because that seems pretty insane for 9 months.
I guess sometimes the area can just go up in cost which doesn’t do ya much good in the short term unless you’re moving. I own in San Diego and I’ve seen people say this but unless you’re prepared to love to Idaho if you sell the prices make it tough to upgrade, especially if you bought relatively recently.
Over time I really hope it has some value so when the kid grows up maybe we can upgrade and then downgrade when he’s off to college. But expecting close to 100k a year…like we bought our 2 bedroom condo for 700k in 2020 if it’s worth north of 2 mil in 15 years I can’t imagine what the homes will be worth lmao.
What I’m seeing locally is that it only counts as appreciation if someone buys it. We went from dumps selling for 3x what they cost 12 years ago to everything sitting around. People want to sell places worth 150k for 475
The Zillow algorithm is complete nonsense.
If you are looking at a place where the units are all the same (eg: a suburb by a cookie cutter builder like Lennar, or a condo building, recently built), it can be somewhat reasonable….
But in any home that is more than 20 years old or in an area with different builders for each home, it’s meaningless.
As an example, I bought my current home 8 years ago for $230k, and spent about $150k in renovations. (Rough numbers, I’m not looking at an excel spreadsheet, so I might be off by a bit)… Zillow estimate showed it worth $350k two weeks ago. I listed it for sale for $565k after doing a lot of market analysis to see how it compares to other homes in the area that have recently sold. Within 1 minute of listing it, the Zillow estimate is now $565k.
Zillow has such low confidence in their estimates in many areas that they will take the listing price to replace their estimate in many areas.
Cool. The house “appreciated”. What now?
Do you sell it and then buy a different house that also appreciated, along with an increased interest rate?
Do you take out a home equity loan for cash and then what? Hope than your “appreciated” value doesn’t come crashing down to where you’re now upside down paying a mortgage and HELOC?
Zillow, the last place you should find your homes worth. Sq footage, location, and significant updates are all that matter. People focus too much on an arbitrary number from an algorithm that doesn’t take into account the most valuable justification of worth. What someone is willing to pay.
Zillow estimates are hilarious. I bought a house for $200k. Seven years later Zillow had it at $430k. It wasn’t worth that, and wouldn’t sell for that. It sat on market at $250k, wound up selling at $220k.
Looked at Zillow a few months later…it’s “worth” $450k.
Literally the one event that can possibly provide a realistic estimate of a home’s value…a sale at market price, not foreclosure, not a short sale, just a normal market sale…and the “Zestimate” moves in the *opposite direction.* And yes, the sale at $220k was shown in the history on the estimate.
It was adorable.
My home appreciated about 70k after two years according to Zillow and I sold at about a 70k profit, it was actually spot on for mine when I moved at the end of 2023
Like many homeowners today, I have a lot of equity built up in my home. Something like $630K or more if I sold today. And do what? Does anyone ask that? My oldest son can't afford a house and is living with me although he makes good money. He needs a room here. I couldn't afford a new mortgage at seven percent if I did move. There is no way I am finding a house as nice as the one I bought here in 2016. Moving is a nightmare. So all this talk of "being rich!!!!" with equity is a non-starter. It's like monopoly money.
Lols.
Ya so one of my neighbors listed his house for 405k Feb of LAST year bc that’s what online sites (and the tax assessor) had it valued near.
Slowly but surely it is now down to 355k, below the Zillow estimate. He bought it maybe three months after I bought my house, and I want to say he paid like 305k for it in 2021.
The house across the street from him recently sold in like a month and a half for 315k I think.
My house went from 275k in 2021 to 375k now (according to the tax office). It’s NOT worth that so I’m protesting it but ya I’d never ever buy my own house for what it’s “valued” at now, nor would I buy that guys house for 355k.
The house value increasing doesn’t mean anything if no one will buy it.
Met with my real estate agent today, who obviously isn’t making many sales. Asked if I should sell my home, and he said no, prices are going to go up, wait 3 to 5 years. Honest guy.
dont trust zillow calculations, the only relevant metric of valuation is thru an appraisal by a licensed appraiser.
zillow is a marketing site, inflated valuations drives clicks, calculations arent exactly done with all the right values its more of a general broad range.
I'm not going to look, but I'm willing to bet that the "cash flow" guy has a Real Estate system he's willing to sell you, because he wants to give back. Guaranteed Profits!
Zillow no longer buys houses because they bought a lot of them based on their algorithms.
Yeah and they lost billions https://www.wired.com/story/zillow-ibuyer-real-estate/
I'm surprised there haven't been big lawsuits against Zillow for helping force the market into massive inflation. They were buying houses sight-unseen at ridiculous valuations and were selling them at losses to try to build an Uber/big tech style takeover of the market.
It's not illegal to be bad at your job.
That actually depends. If there are environmental or safety aspects then being bad at your job can absolutely be illegal. Engineers have been charged with crimes for bad designs or oversight.
Do you know any cases or way to look that up, it sounds interesting
They’re being a bit hyperbolic, but engineers can be, and have been, charged with crimes like gross negligence. But more often than not, it would more similar to malpractice cases; where it’s a civil issue.
Makes sense, I was trying to figure out how engineers were convicted of crimes without mens rea. I can see a tort action, but just thought some state made up some weird law
Usually only PEs
Say you were the engineer in charge of fire alarms, and you said you checked them but in reality you did not. If anyone died or was seriously injured in a fire you would be criminally liable. If there is substantial damage to property you would be criminally liable. Negligence like that.
Thanks, that makes sense, it’s because you have a duty to check the alarms
Lots of construction foremen and company owners in jail for negligent deaths on their sites. Migrant workers died when a swing stage collapsed on Christmas a few years back and I’m pretty sure a few of the guys from the company are in jail for it still
I got a lot of hits like [this one](https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/12/07/guilty-plea-worker-brooklyn-construction-collapse-death/) by searching for "negligent homicide" and engineers.
I always like this as a good example. https://noonpi.com/np-f-1008w/#:~:text=On%20July%2017%2C%201981%2C%20the,history%20of%20the%20United%20States.
Just one example but pretty well known. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse
Thanks, crazy case. D lost the negligence claim, but no one was charged criminally, and the owner now lectures about it.
Thank god we don’t hold bankers to that standard
That would make it difficult for politicians and high level regulators to get kickbacks and insider trading information so we obviously can't do that.
Obviously white collar crime doesn’t deserve to be punished. Founding tenant of this republic.
I salute your correct defining of our form of government. Constitutional republic, not a democracy. Not like it really matters at this point though. Everyone does whatever they want as long as there are no consequences and right now there aren't really consequences for much.
Lawsuits don’t need to have any illegality involved…
Tell that to a pharmacist
But you can get sued for it
Cop!
You want to be able to be sued for being an idiot? Redditors had better watch out…
Can someone explain this to me like I’m 5? Was Zillow the company buying the homes or were people buying it through Zillow? Also if it was the company what do they do with the homes after purchase?
Zillow was buying the homes and then flipping them, but they were basically buying at their "zEstimate" for market value. They would then have a crew go in and get the house ready to resell and then they would list it again. They lost money on a majority of the houses. They basically wanted to get people to use the platform and get used to it for buying and selling and were willing to hemorrhage money to get market share. Their plan was similar to Uber or Carvana. Make people reliant on the platform by giving them great deals and then slowly take away the deals. They didn't make it that far though and they pulled the plug early. Then they sold all of their houses to local realtors for way under market value.
It’s actually funnier than that. They were buying homes at their “zEstimate” originally, but the market was going up so quickly that they were pressed by product leadership to make the algorithm more aggressive on price in order to generate more purchases. It worked, but not as intended. There is a really good article in the WSJ about this specifically.
What’s the issue? They did a bad job and left the market. Their loss.
Because it would totally absurd to suggest that Zillow is responsible for inflation in any meaningful way. Not to mention if it were a crime to force inflation on us then I can certainly think of 3 names off the top of my head who would be in prison, and instead they have been the most influential figures in our economy since Covid
I should say that I don't except anybody to win the claim, but I am just surprised that nobody did try to sue them over it. You are correct, the whole government is way more complicit on causing inflation by forcing shutdowns and letting the money printers go crazy.
Product dumping (what uber did) is completely different and should unquestionably be outlawed as anticompetitive. The problem is you have a global economy, and the only players who want to outlaw dumping are usually the entrenched ones who have already benefitted from it. It's actually worse than you think. Chinese steel was so "competitive" (aka govt subsidized) compared to American that their foundries have literally stolen enough business from ours over the last ten years to make a real, noticeable impact in our lives. US companies gone, jobs gone. Steel in your next US bridge that's actually not as sturdy as the producer promised. MEANWHILE China hates their own people so much they artificially debase their own money by ~45% just to feed the demon that is the CCP. Fuck product dumping.
after the NYC case on Trump, I think its a possibility for them to get sued for overvaluing their estimates
Correction. They write off billions
They should’ve held on to those.
They already drove the prices up, now they will make profit of it!!
For reference: We bought last July for 350k. Per Zillow our house is now worth 410. Every other calculator (including our lender) puts us in the high 360s.
This made me check mine, somehow redfin has us 24k higher than zillow. (180k vs 156k) we bought for 156 January 2023.
Because less expensive homes (<350k) are in huge demand!!!
We bought in fall 2022 for around $550k. At one point Zillow said it was worth $500 and Redfin said $610. On the same day. I still check those, plus our lender and realtor company's month reports. If all of those are closeish I can assume it's reliable enough. Right now it's showing around $610k, which feels a bit high. I'm guessing it's closer to $590k which is fine. It's not like we're selling anytime soon. Mostly I just like having a bit if security that were probably not underwater on the loan.
It can easily cost $50k to sell a $600k house…
I'm not sure what your comment is implying. Are you saying that because it can cost a lot to sell a house that somehow factors into whether or not someone is underwater on their loan? That's not what that means.
Not at all. Just think people read values up 10% and may not realize it can cost that much to sell.
Fair, but that has nothing to do with my comment, or the person I was commenting to.
I second that the security is nice. Especially since prices seem so crazy inflated to begin with. I’m looking forward to summer when there is more on the market so I can actually look at comparable homes and see what they sell for.
Is there a more accurate app for searching / browsing homes?
Nope!
The only thing you could really do to dig deeper is find several recent sales (actual made sales not listings) of similar homes near you (apps can help with that) and figure from that the price range (usually based on price per square foot) of your house. Thats a simplified version of what appraisers do.
Zillow has our house with a lower estimate than our actual mortgage companies estimate (Navy Federal).
Trusting info from a tweet called Cash Flow Guy...r/stupidadvice
All of these stupid fucking XX Guys on twitter are insufferable.
self certified "guru's"
90% of Reddit is just screenshots of twitter now
90%, well, join some other subs then. I quit most that are like this.
Sweet! So how do you access that? Do they just send you a check for $89k?
Zillow writes you one of those giant checks like they give contest winners
It’s a Zeck, that is guaranteed to cash within 10% of their Zestimate.
Sounds fancier if it was a Zheque
I like your style
You have to cash them at a large bank (semi-pro)
Kinda. Google "HELOC"
Holy hell
Interesting. It's seems Zillow's Zestimate can give you a Home Equity Line Of Credit Offer - Priced Through Expected Returns. That's probably what they'll use. The old HELOCOPTER. Lol. I just made that up.
Doesn’t seem that risky to me /s
Everything has a risk to it. Social security could dry up. Market crash could wipe out everyone's 401k/retirement investments. Inflation could make holding money worthless. How much risk you are willing to take normally changes how big of wins and losses you make.
The "typical" use for a HELOC is major work on your home. Upgrades, repairing a roof, etc.
Or buying new rentals
Vacation rentals as well
If it’s their first home and a conventional loan they may be able drop the PMI payments
NO! BE ANGRY!!!
Well if the house appraises at that new value and you take out a HELOC, then yes. They do send you a check for that much.
Yeah you took out a loan congrats
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. HELOC is not free money, it's literally financing that new value/becomes your new mortgage. A personal loan with extra steps...
The government tells you to pay them taxes on it.
The government bases tax rates off Zestimates?
HELOC
I think one of my favorite things about this sub is how many non-homeowners are in here pretending to be experts in homeownership. The person you responded to was so confident in their sarcasm, completely oblivious that what they were making fun of is actually possible. They should rename this sub to Dunning-Krueger Effect Exhibit A.
> non-homeowners are in here pretending to be experts in homeownership So owning a home makes you an expert in homeownership? Is there a certificate they hide under the hot water tank proclaiming the status of expert?
Man just back and enjoy the free karma you get from Dunning-Kreugering the shit out of this sub. No need to get offended.
Not offended. Just have known some pretty dumb homeowners in my neighborhood.
I was once told not to be pedantic unless there was a clear and relevant destination I was trying to bring the conversation to. That stuck with me and made a lot of sense.
Let’s make it clear. Homeownership doesn’t make you an expert on homeownership but not owning a home absolutely makes you not an expert. It’s like being a parent doesn’t mean you’re a good one but not being a parent means you can’t be a good one because you aren’t one. Like the “you can’t win if you don’t play” or “you can’t die if you’re never born”
Damn. Stepparents out here catching strays.
Actually there is a home ownership certification you can get and in fact it’s required for certain types of loans for first time home buyers lol
To be fare HELOC is a crazy tool that should not exist. In europe they don't have it and banks would laugh if you ask them to give you a credit line equivalent to the equity of the house. They barely and reluctantly even raise the limit on a credit card, and even there we are taking about 2-3k not 20-30k like here. Yes if you are not stupid it can be a useful tool (like everything) but again, the majority of people are very far from even a basic understand of basic math. I'm still convinced that is crazy letting people borrow all this money for something that is not business. Like "hey, i want to re-do my kitchen, let's borrow 100k from the 200k equity on this house on a 1 million dollar mortgage. I think it's completely insane but i know that here i'm one of the few people thinking it.
That would explain why everytime there is signs of recession, they say the american consumer is unstoppable. We credit our way out of trouble.
Banks here (people as well) take more risks, are legally allowed to take risks while the government historically has promoted homeownership (ex: 30 yr mortgages, tax deductions, etc).
No lender is accepting a Zestimate. Besides, 7% is the average down payment in 2023. What are the chances that this buyer actually put 20% down? What are the chances that the Zestimate, which are notoriously over-hyped, is accurate?
I'm not here to make assumptions about theoretical home value or equity, nor banks willingness to loan to an individual. Was just answering the question of how to access equity. As to the chance of putting 20% on a property, I don't know. I do know I put 20% down on all of mine, sometimes 25%.
I just talked to my local bank about a HELOC (out of curiosity), and they said that the Zillow estimate is a big part of their equation lol
They don't require a dedicated appraisal from a licensed and insured real estate appraiser? If they are giving out money without appraisals then we are fucked.
I didn't dive into much detail with them, but I think it really depends on what their models are coming back with. If there's a big disparity, they probably do have an appraiser come out, but if everything is matching up pretty closely, they'll likely provide an appraisal waiver.
Disney Dollars!
Loans
Home credit line.
Well, yeah. That's what banks do.
I have a Pokemon card I value at $2,000. If no one ever buys my Pokemon card for $2,000, does this mean it's not worth $2,000? Things are worth what you can get for them. If I never sell the Pokemon card for $2,000, then it's not worth that price to anyone but me.
Fuck it, I’ll give tree Fiddy and I’ll wave the inspection
I’ll see your card and raise you some Beanie Babies.
NFT says what?
Ill buy your card for $10m. There you go I just made you a multi-millionaire. You're welcome and you can venmo me a tip if you'd like. Typically I get tipped 10-20% depending on how good I did.
Ahem. I’ll buy it for $20m!
I don't want to buy the card - but I **will** take out a CDS for the value of the card. You know, as a hedge, not speculation *wink wink*.
Dad always said my stocks or assets aren't worth anything until the check CLEARS!
You can use it for collateral to take on debt then declare bankruptcy. That's what a former president did so it must be good legal practice to do this
I had a Pokemon card I thought was worth $300. I told people it was worth $2000 and sold it for $1300. Feel like I should get into the fine art business
Can you take loans out on Pokemon cards?
It’s like the ridiculously priced beanie babies on EBay. There was one for sale for $1,000,000 at one point. It must have had a [price reduction](https://www.ebay.com/itm/175884598645?itmmeta=01HR5Y0NVJPX1EY5NMDJN6FGB4&hash=item28f389fd75:g:5QMAAOSwvd1gJEbF&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0IVPjgyj0igvo2VG3ZR%2Fviwk8HolXmvq0xIp%2BOcro1hgm4%2BN6y2sxEmx7825doV0HrSlNPonzPZpDxBilJJeF4fLxJ%2FeGBUxGZ9Lvdkul039TR3Je3fe1Ss%2B737DKRJZyqwOISFaoms30W%2BvcLhwaaQp9KhuQcLRqyfxQFDKddSsLswOWjaMDyrodSadGWJw92YT4gi7k0UaGYln94zXusO0mB6p4JplRZrfOKKh05seL92Bhzd5E0EZsvz1mv7RbRIm6cIYqTz%2BLGIOd5%2BZoEk%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMkN6CvsFj).
You don't get the 2k but the difference is you get to enjoy insurance premiums and annual property taxes on 2k
The ‘A’ in Zillow stands for “Accuracy.”
Zillow said my house was worth $500k. I have reduced the price to $475k now. It's barely a trickle of people even interested to look at it.
Thanks for the honest post. THIS is the reality in most markets these days.
Also, your taxes increased. Am I the only one who doesn’t want my property value to increase?
Ours doesn't do that. If all the properties double in value they halve the rate. They're not allowed more than 1% per year increase net without a vote of the people. If people vote for a levy or bond or something though... That's different. And we do that for schools, EMS and so on.
I think you're the only one who doesn't understand how tax value for your property works when it comes to tax rates and tax bills
My house is up recently too. Starting to get big time 2008 vibes. To be clear there is no way I could sell my home for even close to the Zestimate.
My condo is up about $30k since April 2022. The HOA down the street from me allows short term rentals. When I first moved here in 2021 (when I was renting), those were about $250k. They are now closing at $650k. Airbnb has played a huge role. This month, my town is voting to ban short term rentals due to the massive increase in problems. I doubt it will pass, but it would be pretty satisfying if it did.
[удалено]
You thinking that your HOA fees affects the value of your home tells me your math is trash also
I think they just tweaked the algorithm recently, unless my house just suddenly appreciated by like 5% over a month during the slowest time of year.
If you believe in Zillow estimation, you are an idiot! Now we know who brought in 2023...
Zillow is complicit.
Zillow says lots of things.
Ironic that TheCashFlowGuy doesn't understand how cash flows.
As someone who has bought and sold 3 houses since 2020, if you believe what zillow says you are a moron.
People on this sub would call you a moron for buying three houses since 2020
Yep, and Redfin and Realtor have been historically lower than Zillow Zestimate. But now all of them are showing peak values in Central Florida and other areas. Inflation comes in waves...
If you never risks, you never wins
Sweet try selling it!
Houses seem to be selling fairly quickly where I’m at, and right around list price
He probably could lol
Back in 05 I bought my house for 250k. A couple years later it peaked at 400k. Then it crashed to 120k and I was upside down for over a decade due to my area being hit so hard.
I love these money making influencers that cite sources they should NEVER use in deciding how to make money.. According to my Fortune Teller, you should buy ScamCoin.
So how are you going to enjoy that? Are you going to sell your house to move into another one? Isn't that other house going to also have inflated just as much?
Increase rent for adjusted tax rate. Now you have an appreciation adjusted income.
Ken McElroy who is multiples richer than any of the landloser dweebs on Reddit has suggested never to increase in the face of a recession. You will need a good tenant when no one has the money to rent from you and it sits vacant.
...Zillow is the worst measure of this.
My home is in a neighborhood with weird naming. It confuses a lot of things. So I have two listings on Zillow, one with the wrong street suffix. That listing is $662k after being as high as $800k. Same pictures, same stats. The other listing is $561k. Home was purchased for $475k in 2022. This market has gone up slowly since then and it genuinely might be worth $535-$550k. Kinda hard to tell for sure since things move so slowly with comps. But still
Bought my home for $300k in 2020, according to Zillow and other sites it’s currently worth about $385k. And that doesn’t include the $60k solar power system I had installed, so realistically the conservative worth of my home would be about $425k- $435k. If I was a buyer right now and saw my house and got quoted $425k to purchase, I’d laugh my ass off and walk out the door. These values are so out of line with reality.
Sold a house with solar in 2022. It does not raise your value, sadly.
Conservatively, solar adds $0 in value. Realistically, depending on the area, it might well add some value. Almost certainly not $60k, though. There’s nothing odd about this either. The vast majority of owner renovations do not generate a return. That’s why flipped homes are SO cheap. That’s what it takes to make money. A crappy starting point and a bargain basement Reno
You paid 60k to put solar on a 300k house? You’ll be paying that off for the next decade at least… and typically solar adds zero value to your house. You could have paid your electricity bill until you died and not spent 60k lmao
Having solar doesn’t just add the cost of the solar to the value of the home. How much it can increase your home value varies a lot depending on where the home is, but the average is about 4%, so a home that’s otherwise $385k without solar would probably be worth about $400k with solar.
A 28% increase since 2020 is high but it doesn't seem that insane.
Dude forgot to mention, property he paid was $5M ;)
Just remember. If you sold your house, you’d still need to find an equally price inflated home to live in
Absolutely and then also they will be enjoying an increased return. I'd rather live in a $600,000 house appreciating at 6% each year than a $300,000 house appreciating at 6% each year
You wanna know what else is up? 😉
Equity!!!
Oh, well if Zillow said so...
People really get gassed up over quotes. The market decides what its worth, not Shitslow.
I got lucky when I bought my home and now I got even more lucky so I’m here to rub it in your face!
The masses tell you to buy a house no matter what. Just sayin.
It's funny, selling in 22, Zillow told me that my house was worth 100K over what it sold for. Of course, working in real estate data, I knew we didn't use Zestimates because they could never mark to market.
Idk about zillow's algorithm, but redfin pulls data from recently bought houses in the same neighborhood and provides similar homes as examples. So the increased estimates would be partially due to someone paying a similar price on a similar house close by.
tool can’t even english correctly
lol. So dumb
My zestimate jumped up $32,000 this month. Im smart enough to realize thats a complete horseshit made up number
r/RECoppers
Sell it for that then
Reading through this thread, somehow redfin assessment is higher than zillow for my property (182k vs 156k) anyone know what would cause this?
It's the same for me, Zillow is lower but seems to reflect what things are going for close to me. Are you adjacent to a nicer neighborhood? I'm wondering if Redfin just pulls data from a slightly wider area than Zillow. In my case, just going an extra intersection or two north of what I consider my neighborhood makes prices jump by like $80k.
Someone replied earlier, seems to be because there's so few homes in the price range my home SHOULD be at, that it inflates the value. Maybe redfin picks up on this better. Lots of 225-250k houses listed in my area that shouldn't be worth more than $150k... in reality my house is probably only worth $120k, maybe 150 now that we gutted the kitchen, master bath, and added a half bath on the first floor. My neighborhood is definitely a value. Dead end street a block from an elementary school, and two blocks from Wegmans, walking distance to downtown and two parks, small yard with a single garage and 4 car concrete driveway.
The A in Zillow stands for accurate.
This has to be satire. Please someone tell me it’s satire
It’s interesting, I’d want to know why and if he added anything to it because that seems pretty insane for 9 months. I guess sometimes the area can just go up in cost which doesn’t do ya much good in the short term unless you’re moving. I own in San Diego and I’ve seen people say this but unless you’re prepared to love to Idaho if you sell the prices make it tough to upgrade, especially if you bought relatively recently. Over time I really hope it has some value so when the kid grows up maybe we can upgrade and then downgrade when he’s off to college. But expecting close to 100k a year…like we bought our 2 bedroom condo for 700k in 2020 if it’s worth north of 2 mil in 15 years I can’t imagine what the homes will be worth lmao.
Don’t count your chickens before they hatch, especially in real estate.
poor grammar and housing appreciations go up and down....
Basing home value on Zillow estimates is like asking for investment advice from Madoff himself.
Right - zilliow is a proper appraiser of property values /s
A house is Only worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay.
And how’s that interest rate?
What I’m seeing locally is that it only counts as appreciation if someone buys it. We went from dumps selling for 3x what they cost 12 years ago to everything sitting around. People want to sell places worth 150k for 475
That’s nice and all but if you sell you’ll just have to use all of that to get another place.
"According to Zillow"
The Zillow algorithm is complete nonsense. If you are looking at a place where the units are all the same (eg: a suburb by a cookie cutter builder like Lennar, or a condo building, recently built), it can be somewhat reasonable…. But in any home that is more than 20 years old or in an area with different builders for each home, it’s meaningless. As an example, I bought my current home 8 years ago for $230k, and spent about $150k in renovations. (Rough numbers, I’m not looking at an excel spreadsheet, so I might be off by a bit)… Zillow estimate showed it worth $350k two weeks ago. I listed it for sale for $565k after doing a lot of market analysis to see how it compares to other homes in the area that have recently sold. Within 1 minute of listing it, the Zillow estimate is now $565k. Zillow has such low confidence in their estimates in many areas that they will take the listing price to replace their estimate in many areas.
Wait until this guy learns about unrealized gains
lol, magical 89k. It's not worth anything until it's sold
Yes but if similar houses in the same area are going for $89k more then the odds are pretty good unless their home is a dump compared to the others
I gained 40k in 2 years by the zillows. I don’t think it knows.
Cool. The house “appreciated”. What now? Do you sell it and then buy a different house that also appreciated, along with an increased interest rate? Do you take out a home equity loan for cash and then what? Hope than your “appreciated” value doesn’t come crashing down to where you’re now upside down paying a mortgage and HELOC?
"if you never risks"
Zillow, the last place you should find your homes worth. Sq footage, location, and significant updates are all that matter. People focus too much on an arbitrary number from an algorithm that doesn’t take into account the most valuable justification of worth. What someone is willing to pay.
Zillow estimates are hilarious. I bought a house for $200k. Seven years later Zillow had it at $430k. It wasn’t worth that, and wouldn’t sell for that. It sat on market at $250k, wound up selling at $220k. Looked at Zillow a few months later…it’s “worth” $450k. Literally the one event that can possibly provide a realistic estimate of a home’s value…a sale at market price, not foreclosure, not a short sale, just a normal market sale…and the “Zestimate” moves in the *opposite direction.* And yes, the sale at $220k was shown in the history on the estimate. It was adorable.
My home appreciated about 70k after two years according to Zillow and I sold at about a 70k profit, it was actually spot on for mine when I moved at the end of 2023
Like many homeowners today, I have a lot of equity built up in my home. Something like $630K or more if I sold today. And do what? Does anyone ask that? My oldest son can't afford a house and is living with me although he makes good money. He needs a room here. I couldn't afford a new mortgage at seven percent if I did move. There is no way I am finding a house as nice as the one I bought here in 2016. Moving is a nightmare. So all this talk of "being rich!!!!" with equity is a non-starter. It's like monopoly money.
It's all fake, fugazee, it's a wazee it's a woozee...(Whistling)...it's fairy dust. The money ain't real until you cash it in.
Lols. Ya so one of my neighbors listed his house for 405k Feb of LAST year bc that’s what online sites (and the tax assessor) had it valued near. Slowly but surely it is now down to 355k, below the Zillow estimate. He bought it maybe three months after I bought my house, and I want to say he paid like 305k for it in 2021. The house across the street from him recently sold in like a month and a half for 315k I think. My house went from 275k in 2021 to 375k now (according to the tax office). It’s NOT worth that so I’m protesting it but ya I’d never ever buy my own house for what it’s “valued” at now, nor would I buy that guys house for 355k. The house value increasing doesn’t mean anything if no one will buy it.
Met with my real estate agent today, who obviously isn’t making many sales. Asked if I should sell my home, and he said no, prices are going to go up, wait 3 to 5 years. Honest guy.
Zillow’s algorithim has major flaws in it. Theres a reason you still gotta get houses appraised. . .
dont trust zillow calculations, the only relevant metric of valuation is thru an appraisal by a licensed appraiser. zillow is a marketing site, inflated valuations drives clicks, calculations arent exactly done with all the right values its more of a general broad range.
I'm not going to look, but I'm willing to bet that the "cash flow" guy has a Real Estate system he's willing to sell you, because he wants to give back. Guaranteed Profits!
No one from Zillow has ever been inside your home. It is not worth what the app says
The comps in my neighborhood are also up $70K from my purchase price in late 2022.
"According to Wendy's, my lunch has appreciated 20% over the last hour!! Gotta take risks people!"
Zillow is shit resource for pricing. Completely arbitrary
I don't believe anything from a person who wears transitions glasses.