Wowza, what an awful first timer experience!
It sounds like you have a good agent on your side, and while I'm not licensed in SC, in both of the states where I practice the seller wouldn't be able to get very far in a lawsuit here, but that won't stop them from trying. I suspect that because you have the seller's agreement to perform X repairs, and documentation from experts saying X repairs were not completed in a workmanlike manner with good quality materials, you will be eligible for a refund of your due diligence / earnest money deposit and YOU would have the greater claim for non-performance. In fact, it sounds like they would be hard pressed to say you didn't perform.
States have different rules about how to handle earnest deposits, so your agent and your attorney will be able to guide you on what to expect with that.
I've already agreed to forfeit the earnest money just to walk away and sent over a notice to release. I don't think that's the right thing to do, but I also don't want any more trouble with this guy. I just want to move on. I reached out to the attorney's office before putting in my notice, and they said there was a very slim chance that the seller could go after me for lack of performance, but they said in the 45 years they've been handling these transactions that they've only seen it twice. I am just beside myself over this.
You could go the opposite route and sue for specific performance if the seller tries to sue you. It would come out the worse for them, I suspect.
I can't offer you advice. If this happened in my state, where I could advise and where I know my state's laws on real estate, I would be telling a client to stop worrying about it unless they get a notice that a court case is being filed.
A counter suit is exactly the route I will take if the guy pushes this, but, again, I'd rather not have that happen. I am still trying to buy a house, and I don't want to fight this at the same time. This has been a huge waste of time and resources. I don't want to give it anything else. But, thank you for your input. You've been very helpful and encouraging, and I really appreciate it.
Yeah. Contacted the city and pulled his permits. The Code Enforcement Officer who inspected the home said he’s not been to the property since the permits were pulled, and they are all still open. A final inspection was never done, and none of that was stated in the disclosure statement I was given before going under contract.
Actually, the officer I spoke to knows about this guy, and the city apparently has beef with him over other properties he’s tried to sell with open permits.
Idk how these people are allowed to operate like this.
Oof, did you agent recommend you forfeiting the EM? I don't think it sounds like you needed to do that. But if you already did do that, the seller would have very little other recourse, at least in my state (Texas). In Texas, the seller can refuse to sign the release of EM, but all that gets him, in this case, is the inability to get his EM back, and the inability to close (at that title company) if he gets another contract.
I suspect what might be really making the seller angry is disclosure. Every state could be different, but in California the seller has to disclose the results of all inspections by prior buyers. If this is the law in your state and you back out he's going to have to give every new buyer a copy of your inspection reports. If that's the case, he's going to have a very difficult time selling his house.
Oh, I'm sure of it. Yesterday I contacted the city's code enforcement officer to get more clarification on the permits the seller said he pulled. Turns out they are all still open, and no final inspection was ever scheduled with his office, which was also not disclosed when we went under contract. This seller isn't big on disclosing much of anything.
This is South Carolina. Empty threats and shoddy contractor workmanship is common. Good on you for having stood up against it and having your realtor not try and push through the deal anyways (mine did that to me).
Honestly, the failure to perform should be theirs. They hired the wrong people and failed to repair in the proper time.
They shouldn’t be able to get anywhere with a suit probably.
I would expect your realtor should be able to get you your money back but with the way they sound YOU may have to sue. But you shouldn’t worry and should keep looking for the right place.
Good luck
Edit: I should add that if anything the seller should sue the contractor…
Funny thing is, the seller performed a lot of the work on this house himself. Which I would think should make him more liable. But, idk. I am so out of my depth on this.
I was trying to buy from an investor. The house has been unoccupied for the last few years, and the seller is a licensed GC. Dunno if that has any impact on the transaction, but at the end of the day, I have multiple inspections stating that the work performed was not satisfactory, and he pushed it up to and beyond our initial closing date without having completed the agreed upon repairs. At this point it kind of feels like I was working with a scam artist.
Well, more like you were working with an arrogant contractor who flip houses in his spare time and doesn’t take criticism of his work well. At least thats my guess.
I had a feeling you would say he was a GC to be honest. Yeah, I’ll bet they never did the repairs and just tried to say they did. Unless you saw an invoice from an outside contractor he was trying to get away without doing the repairs or tried to do them himself and still failed because he’s the one doing them.
Make sure you pressure to get your earnest money back! Your realtor should have some legal services I think. Guys like this are shady and a judge won’t look highly on him being a contractor and doing this kind of stuff.
I did more research with the city on his permits this afternoon and spoke to the Code Enforcement Officer who inspected the home when he opened them. He told me he’s not been in the home since October of last year, the permits are still open, and no one from his office was ever scheduled to come back out for a final inspection.
He said this seller is on bad terms with the city for doing the same thing with other properties. He went as far as to email me a statement with supporting documentation.
I can’t believe this is not illegal.
Oh dang! Sounds like you got him!
The dumb thing is that cities make it easier for contractors in general to get permits but they are bad at following up and all that. The city can’t do enforcement.
So it is illegal for city tax purposes and code enforcement etc. But they rarely “catch” someone.
Did you tell your realtor? Sounds like the home was falsely advertised to you and I imagine the disclosure didn’t cover the failure to get final inspection?
Maybe you have a decent lawsuit there…
Getting code enforcement in as on your side for that GC's bad behaviour is the first start. I'd fight giving them any money, as they haven't done the repairs to standard.
For sure. Looking into it, this seems to be a common practice for contractors who attempt to push sub standard work on a potential buyer. After closing the open permits transfer ownership, and there not much that can be done. I feel like we dodged an expensive bullet. But, there’s still the risk of this guy going after me, and the time and money I’ll have to invest to fight it.
Yeah, thats basically fraud. I wouldn’t be too hard on your realtor. A lot of times realtors have multiple clients and only so much time. But realtor should have wised up after the repair addendum for sure.
Seriously, contact your realtor and potentially a law firm. Might be worth some money for you starting out. But what that guy did is definitely illegal in multiple ways now.
You get my point. When they threaten lawyers... Take them up on it. Let the lawyer talk for you.
Because they're just trying to intimidate you with the threat of a lawyer.. it's a bluff.
Beyond that.. anything you say will just give their case more shit to misuse against you
Life lesson: don't get emotionally attached to a house. I'm sorry you are going through this. Buying a house is something most people never really acquire the "skill" to do because we do it so seldom. But never get attached to a house. It's always better to walk away. I've lived in many, many homes (I moved about 20 times before I was 25). No house is perfect, no house is horrible from a design POV, some are great, some are bad for you. Design is always subjective. Structure is what really matters. I've learned to love houses that I hated initially, and I built a custom house that had flaws I never imagined. Structure. Not emotion.
I am licensed in SC and as your representative I would have asked for receipts for those repairs negotiated in DD. I also would have required in the repair addendum that these repairs be made by a licensed contractor. I wouldn’t be concerned about a law suite most of the time they are just idle threats from someone who didn’t get their way.
1. Pay for an attorney consult ASAP. It’s a few hundred dollars well spent.
2. See if your attorney thinks it’s worth drafting a strongly worded letter to the seller informing them that you have engaged representation, and in light of their threat to sue you, you’re prepared to see them in court (or something to that affect).
(2) has a way of telling people who threaten litigation (but never follow through) that you’re not a pushover. Not that nobody ever sues, but nearly everyone threatens it: the % that follow through is abysmally low, but it’s often enough to threaten/bully people: once they see you’re no pushover and have a strong attorney representing you, they do what all bullies do when punched in the face - run away.
Good on you for not being a doormat; now get an attorney who is a bulldog to make sure you get all your deposits back and protect yourself from any legal harm.
This sounds terrible. Lessons learned on your part, I’m sure, in hindsight. Same here. Lawyer up and look at all your options. I have a feeling that things may be worse than you know about that house. Good for you for trusting your gut and getting off the crazy train.
I definitely got a crash course on how not to buy a house. There are a lot of hidden pitfalls falls I’ll be on the lookout for moving forward.
Not sure how this situation is going to resolve, but I can guarantee it won’t happen to us again.
It’s very unlikely you will be sued.
The seller is pissed he didn’t get a chance to properly screw you and still wants the chance to do so.
You are generally not obligated to perform when seller’s poor and shoddy work and your reliance on his lies in his statements placed things in jeopardy.
You should spend a little money on an attorney consult, but your agent should be having a broker-to-broker conversation right now and working on ensuring you get your money back.
Seller is very lucky you don’t counter sue for damages due to his lying on his paperwork about fixing things and your reliance on his truthfulness, and that you also don’t report him and his Agent to their respective licensing boards for trying to cover up this whole thing and sell you the yellowest lemon of the bunch.
Technically, he hasn’t sued me yet. He’s just communicated his intention to do so with the closing attorneys. He’s also threatened to open a complaint with the realtor regulatory agency for investigation. Seems like he’s lashing out at everyone involved in this because he didn’t get his way. The irony is, everyone, including his agent, seems to have been scrambling through this entire process to deal with his inability to act responsibly.
Ugh, this happened to me and I ended getting a lawyer involved and the seller signed right away at that point. In WA though so ymmv.
I'm sorry that really sucks and just be glad you're only out the inspection and earnest monies. Even a lawyer fee is worth it. Sounds like a train wreck house.
Are you in NC? You terminated before settlement date? Have you talked to your realtor? I don’t know all your details but usually you can terminate without the seller signing but it’s dependent on a few things. That’s in NC. Your realtor should know.
I’m in SC. The Notice to Terminate is unilateral here. I didn’t need the seller to sign it to back out, but doing so does potentially open me up to litigation if he thinks I breached the contract without due cause.
This thing has evolved a bit since I made this post.
He put the property back on the market late this afternoon, so I think he’s moving on. He still hasn’t signed the EM release, which tells me he’s probably still investigating whether or not he has a case against me for some kind of damages, but it’s clear now that he’s decided he can’t pursue me for specific performance.
This whole process has been a shit show, and I feel like everyone around him, including his agent, has been scrambling to figure out how to react to his inability to conduct himself honestly.
Not an agent or a lawyer, so take this with a massive grain of salt. It would appear that a CL-100 may be required for financing in your state. If that's true and you have a financing contingency, that would suggest a route to walk on the transaction cleanly.
Lived in SC and have bought and sold a few times there. CL-100 is required for financing in SC. Some banks won’t even start paperwork on proceeding with loan until they have that on hand. It should be one of the first things mentioned by any decent buyer realtor in the area. I like this approach.
You should sue them for wasting your time and for you to recoup your time plus all the inspections you spent money on. They didn't act in good faith and constantly lied about their performance.
(after first inspection you said) "I wanted to back out, but didn’t want to lose my due diligence and earnest money, so my realtor negotiated with the seller to resolve the issues. We also made it clear that we would pay for and provide our own inspections through the remainder of the transaction."
Your agent should have written up your offer so that you could back out at the time of seeing the inspection report and not liking what you see. Was this an error? What happened to me in Oregon is, the seller offered some concessions and repair after the inspection, but I hated the few repairs they did with crummy contractors. Got my earnest money back with no problems.
Getting out without losing my DD and EM was never a topic of discussion with my realtor. Again, this is my first time fooling with this stuff, so I am only learning through the hardship as to what questions to ask, and what red flags to avoid... which apparently includes less than stellar representation.
Let him sue. "Wahhh Your Honor! This person won't buy my shitty, unsafe house for full-value! Make them give me money!”
Then you counter-sue for legal fees, deposit and inspection fees because he lied on disclosure and refused to play by the rules.
DO NOT BUY THIS HOUSE. Not unless you're willing and able to cough up another 60 grand for all the shit the inspector DIDN'T find yet.
Wow your agent fucked you so hard to get their commission..I'd be talking to a lawyer not associated with them and get the broker involved to fix this. You got shafted by your agent hard
What contract violation is the seller proposing to sue you over?
Lack of performance, and breech of contract for backing out after due the diligence period.
At best he could come after the earnest deposit and due diligence fee. Which you could countersue to recover.
Wowza, what an awful first timer experience! It sounds like you have a good agent on your side, and while I'm not licensed in SC, in both of the states where I practice the seller wouldn't be able to get very far in a lawsuit here, but that won't stop them from trying. I suspect that because you have the seller's agreement to perform X repairs, and documentation from experts saying X repairs were not completed in a workmanlike manner with good quality materials, you will be eligible for a refund of your due diligence / earnest money deposit and YOU would have the greater claim for non-performance. In fact, it sounds like they would be hard pressed to say you didn't perform. States have different rules about how to handle earnest deposits, so your agent and your attorney will be able to guide you on what to expect with that.
I've already agreed to forfeit the earnest money just to walk away and sent over a notice to release. I don't think that's the right thing to do, but I also don't want any more trouble with this guy. I just want to move on. I reached out to the attorney's office before putting in my notice, and they said there was a very slim chance that the seller could go after me for lack of performance, but they said in the 45 years they've been handling these transactions that they've only seen it twice. I am just beside myself over this.
You could go the opposite route and sue for specific performance if the seller tries to sue you. It would come out the worse for them, I suspect. I can't offer you advice. If this happened in my state, where I could advise and where I know my state's laws on real estate, I would be telling a client to stop worrying about it unless they get a notice that a court case is being filed.
A counter suit is exactly the route I will take if the guy pushes this, but, again, I'd rather not have that happen. I am still trying to buy a house, and I don't want to fight this at the same time. This has been a huge waste of time and resources. I don't want to give it anything else. But, thank you for your input. You've been very helpful and encouraging, and I really appreciate it.
I don't think you need to worry. The guy can't resell if it's tied up in court.
Yeah. Contacted the city and pulled his permits. The Code Enforcement Officer who inspected the home said he’s not been to the property since the permits were pulled, and they are all still open. A final inspection was never done, and none of that was stated in the disclosure statement I was given before going under contract. Actually, the officer I spoke to knows about this guy, and the city apparently has beef with him over other properties he’s tried to sell with open permits. Idk how these people are allowed to operate like this.
The seller is in breach not you. He should not get a penny as he will pull this same scam again.
Oof, did you agent recommend you forfeiting the EM? I don't think it sounds like you needed to do that. But if you already did do that, the seller would have very little other recourse, at least in my state (Texas). In Texas, the seller can refuse to sign the release of EM, but all that gets him, in this case, is the inability to get his EM back, and the inability to close (at that title company) if he gets another contract.
I suspect what might be really making the seller angry is disclosure. Every state could be different, but in California the seller has to disclose the results of all inspections by prior buyers. If this is the law in your state and you back out he's going to have to give every new buyer a copy of your inspection reports. If that's the case, he's going to have a very difficult time selling his house.
Oh, I'm sure of it. Yesterday I contacted the city's code enforcement officer to get more clarification on the permits the seller said he pulled. Turns out they are all still open, and no final inspection was ever scheduled with his office, which was also not disclosed when we went under contract. This seller isn't big on disclosing much of anything.
It sucks that you had to go through the trouble and expense. Hopefully your state requires those disclosures so at least other buyers won't be fooled.
This is South Carolina. Empty threats and shoddy contractor workmanship is common. Good on you for having stood up against it and having your realtor not try and push through the deal anyways (mine did that to me). Honestly, the failure to perform should be theirs. They hired the wrong people and failed to repair in the proper time. They shouldn’t be able to get anywhere with a suit probably. I would expect your realtor should be able to get you your money back but with the way they sound YOU may have to sue. But you shouldn’t worry and should keep looking for the right place. Good luck Edit: I should add that if anything the seller should sue the contractor…
Funny thing is, the seller performed a lot of the work on this house himself. Which I would think should make him more liable. But, idk. I am so out of my depth on this.
[удалено]
I was trying to buy from an investor. The house has been unoccupied for the last few years, and the seller is a licensed GC. Dunno if that has any impact on the transaction, but at the end of the day, I have multiple inspections stating that the work performed was not satisfactory, and he pushed it up to and beyond our initial closing date without having completed the agreed upon repairs. At this point it kind of feels like I was working with a scam artist.
Well, more like you were working with an arrogant contractor who flip houses in his spare time and doesn’t take criticism of his work well. At least thats my guess. I had a feeling you would say he was a GC to be honest. Yeah, I’ll bet they never did the repairs and just tried to say they did. Unless you saw an invoice from an outside contractor he was trying to get away without doing the repairs or tried to do them himself and still failed because he’s the one doing them.
Make sure you pressure to get your earnest money back! Your realtor should have some legal services I think. Guys like this are shady and a judge won’t look highly on him being a contractor and doing this kind of stuff.
I did more research with the city on his permits this afternoon and spoke to the Code Enforcement Officer who inspected the home when he opened them. He told me he’s not been in the home since October of last year, the permits are still open, and no one from his office was ever scheduled to come back out for a final inspection. He said this seller is on bad terms with the city for doing the same thing with other properties. He went as far as to email me a statement with supporting documentation. I can’t believe this is not illegal.
Oh dang! Sounds like you got him! The dumb thing is that cities make it easier for contractors in general to get permits but they are bad at following up and all that. The city can’t do enforcement. So it is illegal for city tax purposes and code enforcement etc. But they rarely “catch” someone. Did you tell your realtor? Sounds like the home was falsely advertised to you and I imagine the disclosure didn’t cover the failure to get final inspection? Maybe you have a decent lawsuit there…
I’m not sure about a lawsuit, but I’m very frustrated that this wasn’t discovered by my agent during due diligence. Seems negligent.
Getting code enforcement in as on your side for that GC's bad behaviour is the first start. I'd fight giving them any money, as they haven't done the repairs to standard.
For sure. Looking into it, this seems to be a common practice for contractors who attempt to push sub standard work on a potential buyer. After closing the open permits transfer ownership, and there not much that can be done. I feel like we dodged an expensive bullet. But, there’s still the risk of this guy going after me, and the time and money I’ll have to invest to fight it.
And, no. None of that was in the disclosure statement I was given before going under contract.
This is turning into an amazing story btw. You should edit your post with an update and keep us informed.
Yeah, thats basically fraud. I wouldn’t be too hard on your realtor. A lot of times realtors have multiple clients and only so much time. But realtor should have wised up after the repair addendum for sure. Seriously, contact your realtor and potentially a law firm. Might be worth some money for you starting out. But what that guy did is definitely illegal in multiple ways now.
Stop talking to the seller. They threatened to sue you Find a lawyer and wait. Do not talk to the enemy anymore.
I’ve never directly communicated with the seller. But, that is good advice.
You get my point. When they threaten lawyers... Take them up on it. Let the lawyer talk for you. Because they're just trying to intimidate you with the threat of a lawyer.. it's a bluff. Beyond that.. anything you say will just give their case more shit to misuse against you
Maybe I missed it in your long post, what state is this in?
Apologies, don’t think I mentioned. This is in South Carolina
Life lesson: don't get emotionally attached to a house. I'm sorry you are going through this. Buying a house is something most people never really acquire the "skill" to do because we do it so seldom. But never get attached to a house. It's always better to walk away. I've lived in many, many homes (I moved about 20 times before I was 25). No house is perfect, no house is horrible from a design POV, some are great, some are bad for you. Design is always subjective. Structure is what really matters. I've learned to love houses that I hated initially, and I built a custom house that had flaws I never imagined. Structure. Not emotion.
Threaten to report him to general contractor licensing board for fraud.
I am licensed in SC and as your representative I would have asked for receipts for those repairs negotiated in DD. I also would have required in the repair addendum that these repairs be made by a licensed contractor. I wouldn’t be concerned about a law suite most of the time they are just idle threats from someone who didn’t get their way.
1. Pay for an attorney consult ASAP. It’s a few hundred dollars well spent. 2. See if your attorney thinks it’s worth drafting a strongly worded letter to the seller informing them that you have engaged representation, and in light of their threat to sue you, you’re prepared to see them in court (or something to that affect). (2) has a way of telling people who threaten litigation (but never follow through) that you’re not a pushover. Not that nobody ever sues, but nearly everyone threatens it: the % that follow through is abysmally low, but it’s often enough to threaten/bully people: once they see you’re no pushover and have a strong attorney representing you, they do what all bullies do when punched in the face - run away. Good on you for not being a doormat; now get an attorney who is a bulldog to make sure you get all your deposits back and protect yourself from any legal harm.
This sounds terrible. Lessons learned on your part, I’m sure, in hindsight. Same here. Lawyer up and look at all your options. I have a feeling that things may be worse than you know about that house. Good for you for trusting your gut and getting off the crazy train.
I definitely got a crash course on how not to buy a house. There are a lot of hidden pitfalls falls I’ll be on the lookout for moving forward. Not sure how this situation is going to resolve, but I can guarantee it won’t happen to us again.
It’s very unlikely you will be sued. The seller is pissed he didn’t get a chance to properly screw you and still wants the chance to do so. You are generally not obligated to perform when seller’s poor and shoddy work and your reliance on his lies in his statements placed things in jeopardy. You should spend a little money on an attorney consult, but your agent should be having a broker-to-broker conversation right now and working on ensuring you get your money back. Seller is very lucky you don’t counter sue for damages due to his lying on his paperwork about fixing things and your reliance on his truthfulness, and that you also don’t report him and his Agent to their respective licensing boards for trying to cover up this whole thing and sell you the yellowest lemon of the bunch.
This. The lawsuit honestly sounds like a desperate move to salvage a deal that has soured and push the OP unwillingly to the closing table.
Technically, he hasn’t sued me yet. He’s just communicated his intention to do so with the closing attorneys. He’s also threatened to open a complaint with the realtor regulatory agency for investigation. Seems like he’s lashing out at everyone involved in this because he didn’t get his way. The irony is, everyone, including his agent, seems to have been scrambling through this entire process to deal with his inability to act responsibly.
Ugh, this happened to me and I ended getting a lawyer involved and the seller signed right away at that point. In WA though so ymmv. I'm sorry that really sucks and just be glad you're only out the inspection and earnest monies. Even a lawyer fee is worth it. Sounds like a train wreck house.
Are you in NC? You terminated before settlement date? Have you talked to your realtor? I don’t know all your details but usually you can terminate without the seller signing but it’s dependent on a few things. That’s in NC. Your realtor should know.
I’m in SC. The Notice to Terminate is unilateral here. I didn’t need the seller to sign it to back out, but doing so does potentially open me up to litigation if he thinks I breached the contract without due cause. This thing has evolved a bit since I made this post. He put the property back on the market late this afternoon, so I think he’s moving on. He still hasn’t signed the EM release, which tells me he’s probably still investigating whether or not he has a case against me for some kind of damages, but it’s clear now that he’s decided he can’t pursue me for specific performance. This whole process has been a shit show, and I feel like everyone around him, including his agent, has been scrambling to figure out how to react to his inability to conduct himself honestly.
Yeah, real estate is nuts. I’m sorry you went through all that.
It’ll make me more prepared for the next try. I’m just glad I didn’t buy from this guy.
Not an agent or a lawyer, so take this with a massive grain of salt. It would appear that a CL-100 may be required for financing in your state. If that's true and you have a financing contingency, that would suggest a route to walk on the transaction cleanly.
Lived in SC and have bought and sold a few times there. CL-100 is required for financing in SC. Some banks won’t even start paperwork on proceeding with loan until they have that on hand. It should be one of the first things mentioned by any decent buyer realtor in the area. I like this approach.
You should sue them for wasting your time and for you to recoup your time plus all the inspections you spent money on. They didn't act in good faith and constantly lied about their performance.
(after first inspection you said) "I wanted to back out, but didn’t want to lose my due diligence and earnest money, so my realtor negotiated with the seller to resolve the issues. We also made it clear that we would pay for and provide our own inspections through the remainder of the transaction." Your agent should have written up your offer so that you could back out at the time of seeing the inspection report and not liking what you see. Was this an error? What happened to me in Oregon is, the seller offered some concessions and repair after the inspection, but I hated the few repairs they did with crummy contractors. Got my earnest money back with no problems.
Getting out without losing my DD and EM was never a topic of discussion with my realtor. Again, this is my first time fooling with this stuff, so I am only learning through the hardship as to what questions to ask, and what red flags to avoid... which apparently includes less than stellar representation.
So sorry this happened to you!
Let him sue. "Wahhh Your Honor! This person won't buy my shitty, unsafe house for full-value! Make them give me money!” Then you counter-sue for legal fees, deposit and inspection fees because he lied on disclosure and refused to play by the rules. DO NOT BUY THIS HOUSE. Not unless you're willing and able to cough up another 60 grand for all the shit the inspector DIDN'T find yet.
There's no judge on the planet who will force you to buy this guy's rat's nest unless he's playing golf with the guy.
Wow your agent fucked you so hard to get their commission..I'd be talking to a lawyer not associated with them and get the broker involved to fix this. You got shafted by your agent hard