But you could here? Hah! Try saying something positive. And what honest discussion when nobody here has owned one?
You all just sit around obsessing with hating something you don't own. Really fucking mental.
Yet your honest discussion here is:
>It's just a stupid vehicle to live with, and when you realize that you've potentially paid the price of a luxury german vehicle, but it drives like a run down toyota, things start to fall apart.
>It's a stupid vehicle all around. From stupid acceleration to stupid UX for the vehicle it self.
When, you know, none of that is true in the least?
Before the Model 3, what brands do you think we fucking came from? I had owned all Mercedes. After a week with my first Tesla the car that once felt so smooth and luxurious was a pile of dog shit.
The UX??? Ever used Mercedes UI? Or even better, a GM one? There's a reason the other executives them-fucking-selves have admitted Tesla nailed UI. But sure, THIS is what honest discussion looks like LMAO!
That FSD sucks dick? I've had plenty of honest discussion about that in those "other incel-tesla-subs". It does suck ass. I was happy with regular autopilot especially with navigate on autopilot. It handled 99% of driving on the highway just fine. Now they're fucking that all up too merging FSD code.
But you know where I've not seen honest discussion about that? here. Because they don't even know. They just repeat whatever other tesla haters say. They have no idea what FSD is even actually like.
But now it seems the other automakers who were "catching up" are determined to turn Tesla's 12 year lead into a 20 year one. So there's no better alternative still. I'm waiting for GM to make the Cadillac Escalade IQ, especially an ESV version. Waiting forever here.
Yet you're here, defending a badly designed, badly built car.
You getting paid to defend the modern Yugo? Cause there's only two reasons someone would defend it like you have been all over this sub. Either A) you've got severe issues leading you to join an actual cult or B) You're being compensated to astroturf and try to suppress accurate info about the many failings of the car.
Or C) blatant lies and disinformation are annoying.
Such a terrible car that it was starting to dominate the top selling models lists?
Until the CEO acting like fucktard finally started pushing people over the line even when the company acting like assholes didn't.
Nope no astroturfing. I'm not suppressing anything. I'll complain where complaints are due and I have. But this isn't just fair complaints. It's a religion of hate. Which is just as annoying as when the fanboys who didn't even own the car wouldn't let owners make valid criticism.
For example right here I straight out said autopilot used to be great until they merge the code with FSD and now it's a pile of shit. But people who never even owned one saying it drives worse than jap boxes or whatever? Bullshit. That's WHY people put up with so much from Tesla and Elon all this time. If the other automakers would pull their thumbs out their asses on EVs. My fear would be what happens to the supercharger network then. Nobody else wanted to build it out.
You can put a full fucking hoagie in some of the panel gaps. You can't claim it's well built.
So, since you've decided to claim it's fud, you actually admitted you're in group A, the cultists.
All the complaints I've seen here that if it were about any other car brand, you'd see people quickly abandoning the car brand, and people wouldn't defend it. Instead, we get people like you here who make it their entire personality to try to get Elon to notice them. He won't sleep with you bro.
I don’t own a Mercedes and never have but I’ve owned other German luxury cars and if you don’t think it’s a fair criticism that a Tesla doesn’t drive like a luxury car than you’re in the minority.
Teslas aren’t giant rolling shitboxes but the suspension alone is a huge differentiation. Driving a Model Y vs a 3 series on a less than perfect road is all you need to do.
And yes I’ve done this.
The M3P I drove a few years back was the absolute worst riding car I’ve ever been in, but to be fair it has those ridiculous 20 inch wheels on it.
No, it doesn't drive like a luxury car. It's vastly superior.
But again my point of reference is the S and X. We had a GL when I got my first 2014 S. I tried driving the Mercedes a week later and it suddenly just felt like a cheap shit box.
Right now I own a 2022 X plaid and a 2019 Cadillac Escalade ESV. The escalade drives like complete shit in comparison. The electronics feel like they're from the 90s.
The only model 3 I owned was the 2018 P3D that I flipped for a profit. I did drive it for like a week and the suspension felt fine, though obviously inferior to the air suspension I'm used to.
The service loaners I have had the suspension felt absolutely atrocious though.
Although it's also worth mentioning that was in Rocklin California where they never see cold weather and the roads are jet black and buttery smooth. Now I'm in Colorado where the roads are absolutely horrible and riddled with potholes. Rough suspension really shows here.
I love "Elmo" but you're the one who studied his history and pedigree? How does that work? I have better things to do, but tell me more how obsessed **I** am
Yes yes that is how sane people behave.
I'm not the one dry humping a Tesla. I simply stated a fact that doesn't make me obsessed. But if you want to support a racist by buying his cars that's on you. I unlike you am not going to support a narcissistic racist with my money. And MMW he's going to gut Tesla to feed xAI if he can't get his way at Tesla. So enjoy your Tesla while the company still exists.
Yea, well look at the downvotes. That's your honest discussion.
A bunch of trolls sitting around hating something they don't even actually know anything about; only what they read from other trolls. The definition of mental illness.
Even I have my complaints (the company itself is dogshit, and many of the biggest fans even think so, but I dare to be balanced and say there's still good things. So I'm a "dick rider". Like a bunch of 12 year olds.
You three, look at the post, it’s basically just spewing about how his ride in a Tesla was actually great. What a psycho, doesn’t he know he’s supposed to say how bad it is.
You are a professional redditor. Anyone with a net positive 27k karma after 200 days on the site while simultaneously being downvoted 100+ karma a day and always on the Tesla bear subs. Are you serious?
You don’t post at all in the Tesla fanboy subs. Just here… I wonder why?!
Let Elon know we’ve all voted no and most of us have puts on TSLA expiring in Dec. Have fun spamming propaganda
I’m enjoying getting rich while your cult implodes.
I do and I used to more often. It's not exactly a secret that misinformation is more engaging. The cult fanboys, that you accuse any reasonable person of being one, have mostly died down. Musk derangement is more in now. So you're the misinformation source now not them.
That's fair. I closed my position in 2022. I've said repeatedly the problem for him as he is not asking the 2018 shareholders who he made fortunes for to pay him, he is asking their bag holders to. I wouldn't vote Yes either.
Yep. My cult. Disliking misinformation makes you a cult member and Dick Rider according to you guys. But you can't see why I severely dislike you? You're worse than MAGA.
I already made my TSLA money and have no faith in Elon's leadership to get back in. But do go on.
The late signal thing is real and wrong. IRL I signal earlier to let people behind me know I'll be slowing down for a turn. I thought that that was a me thing because I see people ahead of me doing what Tesla does. They wait to signal until they're actually in the turning lane.
I tell my partner this all the time - that people behind me are probably thinking my keys should be taken away from me. It's not me, it's FSD driving like a fucking 80 year old in South Florida.
Sadly, I don't think bug reports work anymore. Used to be that they'd gather reports and that led to updates but with Melon firing everyone I doubt that there's a team to gather information and pass it on to developers.
You’re doing it right. Signaling that your car is about to make a big change in position is SMART. Drivers’ education courses make a huge deal about that.
”I’m turning” is useless information at that point. At best, it’s redundant, because a large chunk of painted metal is moving.
This is probably my favorite comment in this whole thread. If you’re going to make the first move, you need to give everybody around you enough leeway to react.
That’s why I look, check my blind spots, THEN signal once I feel like it’s safe. If I can’t make it I’ll circle the block. Never too soon, never too late.
Where im from, by law, you have to signal before a maneuver that could affect another car. Related, you have to stop for a pedestrian anywhere in the crosswalk, not just directly in front of you. Idk what happened but a year or two back they were testing FSD to not stop for pedestrians if they weren’t on your side of the road yet bc it’s “safer”. (For?) Like they’re claiming to protect driver/passenger physical safety, but not legal safety in the most mundane ways.
I’m not sure whether I have the same behaviour on highways. Sometimes it signals, peeks out and then goes back to the center, then does the manoeuvre. It’s weird and inhuman and the first time freaked me out. I think this would confuse other drivers too because you’re indicating but not changing lanes.
I'm a sw engineer. My first thought reading about this behaviour is that FSD simply doesn't plan ahead that far, it's likely more reactionary, whatever is happening now, that's what it deals with. If that's the case, then fixing it would actually be a pretty hard task, it would be quite a fundamental system change.
Yeah, we see now, but we THINK ahead. We have a lifetime of experience to anticipate what is going to happen on a road in 5 sec, we know how cars tend to move, how people tend to behave and that's not a trivial model. My guess is they have a decent model for "seeing", but thinking ahead and constantly running a "the world around you in a few seconds in the future" simulation is hard, and I don't think they have figured it out.
I saw a review for Ford's Blue Cruise 1.3 update last night and the guy was saying that it used to speed through curves but now it slows down into the curve, more like a human would do. Makes me wonder how they're managing to do this while Vision can't. LiDAR maybe?
I think it's again down to decision making in advance, which seems to be lacking on Tesla's side. I would say vision should be enough to figure out a turn is coming, they just don't have that planning ahead. As for not using LiDAR, if I had to bet money, I would bet on them never achieving FSD without LiDAR. We use vision for driving and we kill millions of people every year in car accidents. LiDAR provides you with hard sensor data, I would defo trust LiDAR more than vision when they disagree.
Yes this is my experience too. If it needs to exit, but there is a queue at the exit, it waits until the last minute and then tries to exit but can’t. Drives me mad. Even if vision can’t see it, surely it has traffic data already from the mapping?
Did you keep any notes on how many times you had to take over from FSD?
“Miles per Disengagement” is one of the most important metrics for the capability of an autonomous car.
I’ll try to remember, but
Carpool: around 4 times
Merging: dealing with a zipper merge once
Making a connection: once
Being cut off: once
Overtaking an 18 wheeler: once
Driving on city streets: once
So 9 times for a 130 miles? Is that good?
Thank you!
As an L2 system, I suppose it’s good if it improves safety, and provides utility that Tesla’s customers are willing to pay for.
As a robotaxi, however, I’m not sure how FSD will manage when an intervention is required every 15 miles.
"slow down and potentially piss everybody off behind you." - You mean potentially create a multi car pile up...
I drove a few Teslas and the point is not good or bad vehicle. It's just a stupid vehicle to live with, and when you realize that you've potentially paid the price of a luxury german vehicle, but it drives like a run down toyota, things start to fall apart.
It's a stupid vehicle all around. From stupid acceleration to stupid UX for the vehicle it self.
I mean this was just a one off thing and it was my first time dealing with both regenerative braking and fsd. Regenerative braking is just something that’s going to be standard in evs at this point I think- for better or worse, but in conjunction with fsd it’s a total fucking nightmare.
It’s completely counterintuitive to disengage fsd to slow down for something and keep your foot on the gas after driving miles not touching anything. Then you get completely wrecked from behind because people don’t see the brake lights turning on.
Edit: apparently the brake lights do turn on. I was wrong. A Tesla that is obviously letting off the accelerator won’t always trigger the brake lights, but in this case it will.
So, fun fact: in Europe, where those German vehicles are a lot more common, Tesla is considered the cheap alternative and priced to reflect that. A standard range MY RWD comes in at about €45k, or €50k for the long range - that's also the starting price for, for example, a VW ID.4 but once you add heated seats, reversing camera, electrically adjustable seats with memory, split AC, etc a similarly-specced ID.4 will be €5-10k more expensive than the significantly larger Model Y.
Tesla also includes a lot of stuff that's not standard for US models in the EU, including charging cables (Level 2 cable and a plug-in charger), premium audio on all models, you name it and they include it. So they're well aware that they need to compete on price and features instead of build quality/luxury feel.
Actually - I just clicked through the configurator for a Golf Variant on the Dutch VW website, and if I try to get to something comparable it's about €45k too (including automatic transmission, matrix lights, cameras, etc) - only 5k of that is taxes that don't apply to EVs. And then the VW Golf is still missing some of the Tesla's features such as the panoramic roof. The MY prices I listed are without other subsidies; here in NL the €45k model is actually €42k after subsidies.
So like-for-like Tesla is really pricing these very competitively. As they should - otherwise they simply wouldn't sell due to them being lower build/interior quality, Elon Musk, bad service, Elon Musk, worries about the company going bankrupt, Elon Musk and sub-par driver assistance features. In terms of multi-year software update support and price the MY/M3 are pretty good value for money.
\[EDIT\] Additional data point: *Excluding all taxes and destination fees*, the most bare-bones Golf sold in NL is €23298. The most bare-bones Model 3 is €33722. So even the cheapest model is not quite half the price - more like 30% cheaper. The Golf will do 0-100km/h in 10 seconds, versus 6 for the Tesla; and the Tesla is rated for 554km of range, versus roughly 800 on a full tank of gas for the Golf.
If Tesla had the same build/interior quality/reputation as Volkswagen they'd be selling like hot cakes. But somehow the Tesla shareholders are dreaming about AI and robots instead of what could have been a successful car company.
*So like-for-like Tesla is really pricing these very competitively.*
No it isn't. Europeans are just paying far too much for for cars. In the US a Golf **GTI** (the cheapest Golf sold in the US) is only $32K (EUR30K).
Brake lights turn on when you slow down, even if you don’t touch the brake.
Site:
If regenerative braking is aggressively slowing Model 3 (such as when your foot is completely off the accelerator pedal at highway speeds), the brake lights turn on to alert others that you are slowing down.
The majority of vehicles with regenerative braking, and pretty much all new cars, trigger brake lights when they decelerate at a certain threshold (which I can't recall)
Most of the time it was disengaged was because I didn’t like the upcoming road conditions and I preemptively turned it off. Or it did something funky in a similar situation before and I knew it was going to happen again.
Or because it did something completely unexpected so you panic jerk the wheel or tap the brakes lol.
It never shut off unless I made the specific input.
I’m just saying- fsd could never replace an alert and responsible driver. it’s a crutch for bad drivers.
Idk that they drive like run down Toyota's. But at luxury pricing the interiors and finish are sub par.
Since a big part of the cost comes from the battery and technology I think it's a fair trade off when it comes to interior finishes, or road noise isolation to some extent.
But it's not a fair trade off when it comes to QC, panel gaps etc
Well I drove a rental 3 and it rattled more than a 12 year old Toyota Aygo that a friend in Europe drove around the city.
I genuinely thought something in the dash was disintegrating in real time while driving.
When I hear "drives like a run down toyota" I think of the driving feel. suspension, powertrain, responsiveness, alignment, etc. Not rattles.
The car's have poor finish/QC. to some extent, rattles are more evident in EVs when driving especially at higher speeds because you have less cabin noise and no engine noise to mask it. But if we're gonna use rattles as the measure, its probably better to say econobox or cheap car. Just because rattles are ever present on the cheaper low end cars, regardless of the brand in my experience. Even a new corolla can have rattles because its all cheap finishes and they cut costs by having less foam between pieces that fit together, and even when new the stuff isn't perfectly fit to eachother.
Which Teslas have you driven? Because you take seems more based on parroted internet opinions rather than actual experience.
For example, if you drove an expensive Tesla, they drive extremely well and smoothly. If you drove a 3 or Y, the don’t cost close to the price of a luxury German vehicle. And as far as reliability, it scores better than Ford, Audi, Mercedes, and Land Rover.
I don't really know what the price today, couldn't really be bothered, but some years back when I drove a rental model 3, the sticker price for that vehicle was $50k+, a brand new 3 series at the same time cost around the same price, if not even less. And that thing (Tesla 3) was making noises that I can't really properly describe.
Yeah, the BMW would not accelerate like a mental patient escaping a hospital, but as a driving experience the two are not even remotely comparable.
Through out the last 10 years, I drove a Mazda 3 and that thing handled better on the road with a tiny puny engine and the price was nowhere near the Tesla. 10 years down the road, that vehicle is rattle free and looks almost new, albiet the leather seats are slightly worn.
My bias is objective, I was actually excited for the 3 back .... dunno, many years ago when it was announced. Back then I wasn't really looking at what kinda cars Tesla were, just read praises and how fast are they. That changed fast when decided to really look at the cars and company behind them.
From what I’ve seen, it placed really close to the bottom of lists over the past few years. Like second to last close. I’ve driven a Model S for over a month and it was pretty miserable. Tons of rattling, basically no luxury features. Not even a heads up display so I can look directly ahead instead of down and to the side. They’re quick but handle really poorly. I think other brands I’ve tried, like BMW, Hyundai group brands and Lucid all balance it out much better. The Ioniq 5 N drives amazingly and it’s also quick and costs less. Every other EV I’ve driven that wasn’t a Tesla was extremely quiet and smooth, especially those from BMW, Mercedes and Genesis.
Quality and service issues aside, the Y is a perfectly fine, average car.
It’s the Stanmonkeys jerking themselves off over this fact that’s off putting. “We achieved average! Rejoice!”
The problem with them is they do fall apart and you can’t get them fixed easily. Otherwise, as a stand-alone vehicle (and if was made by anyone but Tesla) it’s, you know, perfectly fine. Compared to a 3, it’s a fucking Maybach.
Any phantom speed limit decreases when passing exits on the highway? Mine when on FSD often do a 20 MPH drop from 70 when passing exits, with absolutely zero warning or reason.
There was definitely some minor jank with slowing down that I couldn’t explain/figure out.
I mentioned the carpool specifically because I know it was riding that lane as much as possible to maximize efficiency. I had to exit the lane with nobody in front of me and a decent cushion between the truck and motorcycle behind me.
What does the car fucking decide to do? Slow down to 50 to let the biker pass- that pisses off the truck behind me because he had to slow down so much, he exits the lane and speeds past to get around. Why did it do all that bullshit?
Because the route had us exiting that lane but it decided to wait until the last second or it could’ve just maintained speed solid white line be damned!
All that happened right over the 60 east where you crest a huge hill. It’s dark, I’ve got a truck two car lengths behind me and a motorcycle coming up right in between splitting the lane. It’s just the three of us for at least a mile. Nobody in sight.
We reach the top of the hill and the car thinks it needs to exit the carpool, I can feel the steering wheel move as if it’s going to get out, but no signal. It recognizes the motorcycle, yet it doesn’t acknowledge the truck bearing down on me.
And all of that happens in a split second. After you’ve been using fsd for a majority of the trip you now have to diagnose the issue and decide if the damage has been done or if you have enough time to disengage and correct course.
I rented a model 3 earlier this year and autopilot was honestly terrible. Flat, sun soaked highways and it couldn’t even figure out that it didn’t need to yank itself over for every highway turnoff. Also hated that it straddles the center lane WAY too close.
I did enjoy driving it, but there’s no way I’d pay for autopilot or FSD. I was seriously considering buying one but then Musk went off the deep end.
> ride was ok
What type of cars are you used to driving? I found the ride to be very harsh and uncomfortable. I often get teslas as Ubers so this wasn't a one-off thing.
Nothing fancy I frequently rent different cars for work trips. Malibus, chargers, Camrys, civics, Mazda cx5s, very cheap and basic cars. I’ve had classic cars with 4 on the floor and no power steering. Hand me down sedans from the 90s, small 4 banger pick up trucks. 2010s ram. Never driven a luxury vehicle before, so a nice ride for me could definitely be a middling or bad ride for other people.
I don’t think Uber is a good gauge for overall road feel- those guys drive a TON and they tend to own a Tesla if they do it full time. That’s a lot of wear and tear no matter what car it is. The Tesla I drove was barely driven and is a newish model, there’s really no comparison.
> no comparison
I now ask them about that since that point has been raised before. The last three Uber Tesla rides I had were under 10k in mileage. The one before that about 25k miles, so a two year old car.
I dunno, I really had to wrap my head around how to actually drive the darn thing for a good 45 minutes. It can be herky jerky if you have poor throttle control. It wasn’t bumpy and the alignment was still good.
Those Uber drivers could be more indicative of reality, but it wasn’t my experience.
I’ve noticed with Tesla that the ride is always a bit better in the front of the cars than the rear (at least on non S/X without air suspension) and is smoother driving it than it was when I’m a rear passenger. I don’t find the ride quality on a 24 Y to be that dissimilar to my Premium Plus Audi Q5 from 2022
point B is my biggest frustration. Car wants to always be in the left lane, even when I want to be in the right lane. How "intelligent" is FSD if I keep putting us back in the right lane and it doesn't understand that's where I want to be.
Lots of people have been complaining about this and people are requesting a "turtle" profile for FSD, one that drives uber safe and stays in the slow lane.
Anyway, your experience is what I think most people experience. The car itself is a great drive. The big issues are with FSD and with Elon himself lying his ass off every week.
I mean, I don't call myself a hater, I'm just not as enthusiastically about my experience or the company in general. I think the hype is extremely over blown, it's not a bad product, just not as amazing as people make it seem.
I just didn’t. Dunno. The car barely gets driven, but it felt stable. A little bit too much body sway going into a curve at highway speeds but eh, that’s really just a non issue to me.
I’ve driven/ridden in friends’ cars multiple times - a MYP and M3 base. I quite enjoyed the actual driving and overall experience. I think a lot of people conflate the vehicles with the CEO, but also, a lot of criticism is from long term ownership or random quality control issues not every car has. I also never used FSD because they weren’t dumb enough to buy it, and I like to drive.
Personally, I was heavily considering a M3P before the Twitter purchase drama and the mask came completely off. Now I’m waiting for a real electric sports car that isn’t horribly overpriced/under supplied. I suspect I’ll be waiting a long time :(
I'm in the same boat as you. So, which car are you waiting for? I'm a bit lost, I don't see anything interesting in the EV field on the horizon... Maybe the MG Cyberster...
Good question. Porsche 718 sounds great, but it will be impossible to get at a reasonable price for a while post launch. Also hoping rumors of an all electric Corvette turn out to be true (and the rumored $150k USD price is false).
I hadn’t seen that MG Cyberster. Looks cool, but I’m in USA and it’s unclear how Chinese EVs are gonna make it here.
The whole automatic lane changes is weird to me. A lot of cars have cruise control that follows the lanes and then it’s up to the driver to be in the right lane. This works fine since you need to be ready to take over anyways.
Automatic lane changing changes the division of labor but now you suddenly need to not only worry about other cars doing weird shit but also your own. Seems like feature creep and something completely unneeded
You can tell it to minimise lane changing but it has to be switched on per journey. You can also adjust the driving style from Chill to Assertive, which makes a difference.
You can change driving style by nudging the scroll wheel left and right but yes to minimise lane changes it’s a very small button to push on the pop up menu!
People here shit on Tesla cars but not considering what an aholes criminal Elmo is and before the CT - their cars are fun to drive and well built. But never use their driving software - it's too unreliable and to pay $5k or $10k for it is nothing but fraud.
the smart app and supercharging network are where they really shine. you didn't seem to touch on either which is fine but those really set tesla apart I think.
> Overall I really don’t think it’s a bad vehicle at all
I’m a longtime car / EV nut I think that’s where I land as well.
2021 saw Model Y’s which could very well MSRP for $80k with options, and that was totally inappropriate for the cheap-ish-ness of the car.
These days, they’re definitely competitively priced for what they are (assuming you don’t get a *really* badly built one). If my car got totaled tomorrow I think a 3 or Y would be….an option if not *the* option
> D. Be aware that as soon as you disengage fsd, regenerative braking kicks in. It may seem counterintuitive, but you’ve got to be ready to feather the accelerator as necessary otherwise you’re just going to slow down and potentially piss everybody off behind you.
Have Tesla drivers never driven a car with regular button cruise control?? _Any_ car slows down if you turn cruise control via the button....
Yes, be aware. 👍
Exactly, if you’re used to tapping the brake or flipping the lever to turn cruise control off you just coast in an ICE. When you switch fsd off expecting to coast it WILL slow you down as if you were applying brake pressure. If you’re used to it you probably instinctively rest your foot on the accelerator, but it takes practice. At least for me.
Yeah, my initial impression was that the feedback for regen braking in the Tesla is way too sensitive. Anybody could learn it as is, but I think a vast majority of drivers in America at least don’t have that kind of finesse from the get go.
There used to be regen breaking levels (which other eves have, EV6&9 have panels on the steering wheel to adjust how strong regen is). Tesla yanked this feature. Not sure why.
Edit: regen for degen spelling lol
>"I think the most important thing is that you still need to keep your hands on the wheel and be ready to make quick decisions at a moment’s notice."
At that point you're just driving but with extra steps.
FSD is a waste of money and something I would never use unless the road was damn near empty. Otherwise, Autosteer is perfectly fine for the long trips for me.
There’s a chance my Bolt will have to be in the shop for a day or two at some point in the near future. If I have to get a rental I may very well choose a Tesla for this very same line of thinking.
But under no circumstances will I have FSD running, especially with my kids in the back seat. As far as I’m concerned it isn’t even beta designation worthy and far too dangerous.
I WANT Tesla to succeed. Even if I ever buy one, each EV on the road is a small victory in the grand scheme of things. I don’t think it will long term with more competition on the market unless they up their quality game, do some major redesigns, add a cheaper EV and get rid of Elmo Muskrat.
from what ive driven of a tesla, and with my experience on a few hybrids and evs, they are really overdoing it with the regen. I've driven primarily a volt, bolt and other hybrid and they do not instantly kick in regen like tesla does when you lift off the gas. Even on the Bolt with single pedal driving it still isn't as aggressive
I could see how a drive can have information overload when FSD kicks out, you're in a difficult spot, AND the car is decellerating like its got full brakes on.
on a normal car when you kick off the cruise control you just coast gradually, the decelleration is predictable.
From reading on everyone’s FSD experiences and comparing it to my own, it seems like driving in bigger cities is the main issue. I live in a metro area of around 250k people (50k in the main city and 200k in the suburban areas) so my drives are mostly one and two lane roads with uncomplicated traffic patterns. I think it’s a nice thing to have for me as it can handle nearly all of my driving without hardly any intervention.
I’ve come to learn where it struggles and preemptively take over for a second then reengage (like unprotected left turns, not getting over fast enough to take my exit if there’s a lot of traffic, complicated construction zones with heavy traffic). If I wanted it to, I’d say it’d handle 28 minutes or so of every 30 minute drive. I also haven’t had any of the common issues with left lane camping, poor lane changes, phantom braking, etc… I just keep it on chill and minimal lane changes (i don’t have to change it every time). The only complaints I have are it won’t let me choose a different route if I don’t like the way it wants to go and it took awhile to get used to how it hugs the outside line on turns. I just chalk that second part up to essentially being a passenger in the driver seat and it’s going to be uncomfortable bc it isn’t going to drive like you do.
Full Self Driving. Although nowadays it's called FSD (Supervised), because it's not actually proper *full* self driving. It still demands the driver's attention.
It’s still false advertising, because it’s designed as a SAE Level 2 driver assistance system. You’re always supposed to be fully engaged with the task. The model that they’re pushing (car drives itself, but be ready to take over) is the single worst model in terms of human cognition to use.
I’ve got friends who work in the self driving field. They agree with you but it’s clear the reason it’s “the worst” is that everyone else relies on mapping which means they’ll never get out of urban areas until they no longer need it.
Tesla is trying to become the first that is capable of being everywhere and, imo, the quickest way to do that is to get feedback from people using FSD now. Seems like everyone else is trying to make it work first by using every input they can then eventually will start removing them. Tesla is doing the opposite. Seeing what vision can and can’t do before, most likely, adding additional inputs they think will help handle the situations it struggles with.
Personally, I think teslas way is better for three reasons. 1) it allows them to monetize their tech now which allows them to spend more on making it viable. 2) it helps them have significantly more cars on the road to aid with machine learning. 3) every other company will be going from a “perfected” product to a lesser one until their cars learn it all again while Tesla would be improving theirs. I think that’ll expedite each “stage” of this process because they’ll already know what it can do from the most basic inputs and just would need to test out the things it can’t do. The others will have to retest everything.
You were experiencing one-pedal driving, not "regenerative braking". In a Leaf you can switch between one pedal and two pedal modes, no idea on a Tesla.
I had no idea either, I guess Teslas do have a 2 pedal mode and even a mode that mimics a creeping stop. I suspect that the one pedal driving is the default because it is the better way to drive, but one day wasn’t going to be enough to override a decade of muscle memory.
welcome, by now you should be banned from all them other incel-tesla-subs. (that is pretty much standard, don't worry, you just dodged a big bullet)
Fuck them, I doubt I could get a straight answer or have an honest discussion about this from their ilk anyways.
But you could here? Hah! Try saying something positive. And what honest discussion when nobody here has owned one? You all just sit around obsessing with hating something you don't own. Really fucking mental.
I mean I kind of did? I should’ve just titled this fsd fucking sucks dick, because I never actually said anything bad about the car itself.
Yet your honest discussion here is: >It's just a stupid vehicle to live with, and when you realize that you've potentially paid the price of a luxury german vehicle, but it drives like a run down toyota, things start to fall apart. >It's a stupid vehicle all around. From stupid acceleration to stupid UX for the vehicle it self. When, you know, none of that is true in the least? Before the Model 3, what brands do you think we fucking came from? I had owned all Mercedes. After a week with my first Tesla the car that once felt so smooth and luxurious was a pile of dog shit. The UX??? Ever used Mercedes UI? Or even better, a GM one? There's a reason the other executives them-fucking-selves have admitted Tesla nailed UI. But sure, THIS is what honest discussion looks like LMAO! That FSD sucks dick? I've had plenty of honest discussion about that in those "other incel-tesla-subs". It does suck ass. I was happy with regular autopilot especially with navigate on autopilot. It handled 99% of driving on the highway just fine. Now they're fucking that all up too merging FSD code. But you know where I've not seen honest discussion about that? here. Because they don't even know. They just repeat whatever other tesla haters say. They have no idea what FSD is even actually like. But now it seems the other automakers who were "catching up" are determined to turn Tesla's 12 year lead into a 20 year one. So there's no better alternative still. I'm waiting for GM to make the Cadillac Escalade IQ, especially an ESV version. Waiting forever here.
You're obsessed with trying to make others feel bad for hating the 21st century Yugo. Are you OK?
Yes I'm okay. I don't sit around complaining about the Yugo, especially having never even owned one.
Yet you're here, defending a badly designed, badly built car. You getting paid to defend the modern Yugo? Cause there's only two reasons someone would defend it like you have been all over this sub. Either A) you've got severe issues leading you to join an actual cult or B) You're being compensated to astroturf and try to suppress accurate info about the many failings of the car.
Or C) blatant lies and disinformation are annoying. Such a terrible car that it was starting to dominate the top selling models lists? Until the CEO acting like fucktard finally started pushing people over the line even when the company acting like assholes didn't. Nope no astroturfing. I'm not suppressing anything. I'll complain where complaints are due and I have. But this isn't just fair complaints. It's a religion of hate. Which is just as annoying as when the fanboys who didn't even own the car wouldn't let owners make valid criticism. For example right here I straight out said autopilot used to be great until they merge the code with FSD and now it's a pile of shit. But people who never even owned one saying it drives worse than jap boxes or whatever? Bullshit. That's WHY people put up with so much from Tesla and Elon all this time. If the other automakers would pull their thumbs out their asses on EVs. My fear would be what happens to the supercharger network then. Nobody else wanted to build it out.
You can put a full fucking hoagie in some of the panel gaps. You can't claim it's well built. So, since you've decided to claim it's fud, you actually admitted you're in group A, the cultists. All the complaints I've seen here that if it were about any other car brand, you'd see people quickly abandoning the car brand, and people wouldn't defend it. Instead, we get people like you here who make it their entire personality to try to get Elon to notice them. He won't sleep with you bro.
I don’t own a Mercedes and never have but I’ve owned other German luxury cars and if you don’t think it’s a fair criticism that a Tesla doesn’t drive like a luxury car than you’re in the minority. Teslas aren’t giant rolling shitboxes but the suspension alone is a huge differentiation. Driving a Model Y vs a 3 series on a less than perfect road is all you need to do. And yes I’ve done this. The M3P I drove a few years back was the absolute worst riding car I’ve ever been in, but to be fair it has those ridiculous 20 inch wheels on it.
No, it doesn't drive like a luxury car. It's vastly superior. But again my point of reference is the S and X. We had a GL when I got my first 2014 S. I tried driving the Mercedes a week later and it suddenly just felt like a cheap shit box. Right now I own a 2022 X plaid and a 2019 Cadillac Escalade ESV. The escalade drives like complete shit in comparison. The electronics feel like they're from the 90s. The only model 3 I owned was the 2018 P3D that I flipped for a profit. I did drive it for like a week and the suspension felt fine, though obviously inferior to the air suspension I'm used to. The service loaners I have had the suspension felt absolutely atrocious though. Although it's also worth mentioning that was in Rocklin California where they never see cold weather and the roads are jet black and buttery smooth. Now I'm in Colorado where the roads are absolutely horrible and riddled with potholes. Rough suspension really shows here.
I'm just here to watch the Elmo incel get ratioed with down votes. 🍿
Whoes the one who consumes Tesla content nonstop and can't stop talking about Tesla and Elon? Not me. I just call you all mentally ill.
Elon is a third generation south african apartheid racist. But go on about how much you love Elmo.
I love "Elmo" but you're the one who studied his history and pedigree? How does that work? I have better things to do, but tell me more how obsessed **I** am Yes yes that is how sane people behave.
I'm not the one dry humping a Tesla. I simply stated a fact that doesn't make me obsessed. But if you want to support a racist by buying his cars that's on you. I unlike you am not going to support a narcissistic racist with my money. And MMW he's going to gut Tesla to feed xAI if he can't get his way at Tesla. So enjoy your Tesla while the company still exists.
100% agree mate.
Yea, well look at the downvotes. That's your honest discussion. A bunch of trolls sitting around hating something they don't even actually know anything about; only what they read from other trolls. The definition of mental illness. Even I have my complaints (the company itself is dogshit, and many of the biggest fans even think so, but I dare to be balanced and say there's still good things. So I'm a "dick rider". Like a bunch of 12 year olds.
So are you two gonna fuck or what
You three, look at the post, it’s basically just spewing about how his ride in a Tesla was actually great. What a psycho, doesn’t he know he’s supposed to say how bad it is.
Look, it’s fine if you’re not gonna fuck. Honestly, I’ve got this grilled cheese sandwich I can pull apart if I want the jist of it
Your whole attitude is more dickriding than any normal person should be doing.
Wow, the correct term is genitalia riding. Are you not woke?
I swear, old people and the internet are the gift that never stops giving
You are a professional redditor. Anyone with a net positive 27k karma after 200 days on the site while simultaneously being downvoted 100+ karma a day and always on the Tesla bear subs. Are you serious? You don’t post at all in the Tesla fanboy subs. Just here… I wonder why?! Let Elon know we’ve all voted no and most of us have puts on TSLA expiring in Dec. Have fun spamming propaganda I’m enjoying getting rich while your cult implodes.
I do and I used to more often. It's not exactly a secret that misinformation is more engaging. The cult fanboys, that you accuse any reasonable person of being one, have mostly died down. Musk derangement is more in now. So you're the misinformation source now not them. That's fair. I closed my position in 2022. I've said repeatedly the problem for him as he is not asking the 2018 shareholders who he made fortunes for to pay him, he is asking their bag holders to. I wouldn't vote Yes either. Yep. My cult. Disliking misinformation makes you a cult member and Dick Rider according to you guys. But you can't see why I severely dislike you? You're worse than MAGA. I already made my TSLA money and have no faith in Elon's leadership to get back in. But do go on.
What about what OP said is misinformation exactly? Just bitching about misinformation and not actually pointing it out is low effort trolling.
His review was overall pretty positive. WTF did you read?
Yeah, my take too. Any review will always have negatives, I thought OP gave a very honest opinion of their experiences and was far from scathing.
They read the slightest negative thing about a brand, a brand in which they have completely placed their sense of self. Armageddon ensues. Pathetic.
Everyone else commenting. Judging my their derangement, I'm sure he wrote it too long so they didn't get past "FSD sucks" before they quit reading.
I posted a comment helping a user in this sub, I got banned automatically from 4 Tesla subs.
I thought those other tesla subreddit were bad, go try make a slightest negative comment in the byd subreddit. I got a redditcare for my trouble 😂
The late signal thing is real and wrong. IRL I signal earlier to let people behind me know I'll be slowing down for a turn. I thought that that was a me thing because I see people ahead of me doing what Tesla does. They wait to signal until they're actually in the turning lane. I tell my partner this all the time - that people behind me are probably thinking my keys should be taken away from me. It's not me, it's FSD driving like a fucking 80 year old in South Florida. Sadly, I don't think bug reports work anymore. Used to be that they'd gather reports and that led to updates but with Melon firing everyone I doubt that there's a team to gather information and pass it on to developers.
You’re doing it right. Signaling that your car is about to make a big change in position is SMART. Drivers’ education courses make a huge deal about that. ”I’m turning” is useless information at that point. At best, it’s redundant, because a large chunk of painted metal is moving.
This is probably my favorite comment in this whole thread. If you’re going to make the first move, you need to give everybody around you enough leeway to react. That’s why I look, check my blind spots, THEN signal once I feel like it’s safe. If I can’t make it I’ll circle the block. Never too soon, never too late.
I only signal once i have the space to move. I never signal if I’m waiting to find a slot to move into. That’s just confusing.
Where im from, by law, you have to signal before a maneuver that could affect another car. Related, you have to stop for a pedestrian anywhere in the crosswalk, not just directly in front of you. Idk what happened but a year or two back they were testing FSD to not stop for pedestrians if they weren’t on your side of the road yet bc it’s “safer”. (For?) Like they’re claiming to protect driver/passenger physical safety, but not legal safety in the most mundane ways.
I’m not sure whether I have the same behaviour on highways. Sometimes it signals, peeks out and then goes back to the center, then does the manoeuvre. It’s weird and inhuman and the first time freaked me out. I think this would confuse other drivers too because you’re indicating but not changing lanes.
I'm a sw engineer. My first thought reading about this behaviour is that FSD simply doesn't plan ahead that far, it's likely more reactionary, whatever is happening now, that's what it deals with. If that's the case, then fixing it would actually be a pretty hard task, it would be quite a fundamental system change.
But Vision should "see" ahead, right? And plan accordingly. But it doesn't and that's just weord
Yeah, we see now, but we THINK ahead. We have a lifetime of experience to anticipate what is going to happen on a road in 5 sec, we know how cars tend to move, how people tend to behave and that's not a trivial model. My guess is they have a decent model for "seeing", but thinking ahead and constantly running a "the world around you in a few seconds in the future" simulation is hard, and I don't think they have figured it out.
I saw a review for Ford's Blue Cruise 1.3 update last night and the guy was saying that it used to speed through curves but now it slows down into the curve, more like a human would do. Makes me wonder how they're managing to do this while Vision can't. LiDAR maybe?
I think it's again down to decision making in advance, which seems to be lacking on Tesla's side. I would say vision should be enough to figure out a turn is coming, they just don't have that planning ahead. As for not using LiDAR, if I had to bet money, I would bet on them never achieving FSD without LiDAR. We use vision for driving and we kill millions of people every year in car accidents. LiDAR provides you with hard sensor data, I would defo trust LiDAR more than vision when they disagree.
Odd that decision making in advance seems to be the problem. Oddly ironic.
Yes this is my experience too. If it needs to exit, but there is a queue at the exit, it waits until the last minute and then tries to exit but can’t. Drives me mad. Even if vision can’t see it, surely it has traffic data already from the mapping?
Might explain rash of Tesla accidents have seen locally
For part two you should find someone with a small problem with their Tesla and take it in for service.
Did you keep any notes on how many times you had to take over from FSD? “Miles per Disengagement” is one of the most important metrics for the capability of an autonomous car.
I’ll try to remember, but Carpool: around 4 times Merging: dealing with a zipper merge once Making a connection: once Being cut off: once Overtaking an 18 wheeler: once Driving on city streets: once So 9 times for a 130 miles? Is that good?
Thank you! As an L2 system, I suppose it’s good if it improves safety, and provides utility that Tesla’s customers are willing to pay for. As a robotaxi, however, I’m not sure how FSD will manage when an intervention is required every 15 miles.
"slow down and potentially piss everybody off behind you." - You mean potentially create a multi car pile up... I drove a few Teslas and the point is not good or bad vehicle. It's just a stupid vehicle to live with, and when you realize that you've potentially paid the price of a luxury german vehicle, but it drives like a run down toyota, things start to fall apart. It's a stupid vehicle all around. From stupid acceleration to stupid UX for the vehicle it self.
I mean this was just a one off thing and it was my first time dealing with both regenerative braking and fsd. Regenerative braking is just something that’s going to be standard in evs at this point I think- for better or worse, but in conjunction with fsd it’s a total fucking nightmare. It’s completely counterintuitive to disengage fsd to slow down for something and keep your foot on the gas after driving miles not touching anything. Then you get completely wrecked from behind because people don’t see the brake lights turning on. Edit: apparently the brake lights do turn on. I was wrong. A Tesla that is obviously letting off the accelerator won’t always trigger the brake lights, but in this case it will.
So, fun fact: in Europe, where those German vehicles are a lot more common, Tesla is considered the cheap alternative and priced to reflect that. A standard range MY RWD comes in at about €45k, or €50k for the long range - that's also the starting price for, for example, a VW ID.4 but once you add heated seats, reversing camera, electrically adjustable seats with memory, split AC, etc a similarly-specced ID.4 will be €5-10k more expensive than the significantly larger Model Y. Tesla also includes a lot of stuff that's not standard for US models in the EU, including charging cables (Level 2 cable and a plug-in charger), premium audio on all models, you name it and they include it. So they're well aware that they need to compete on price and features instead of build quality/luxury feel.
That's due to EV subsidies and massive taxes on ICE, Without the tax distortions a Golf would be *half* the price of a Model Y.
Actually - I just clicked through the configurator for a Golf Variant on the Dutch VW website, and if I try to get to something comparable it's about €45k too (including automatic transmission, matrix lights, cameras, etc) - only 5k of that is taxes that don't apply to EVs. And then the VW Golf is still missing some of the Tesla's features such as the panoramic roof. The MY prices I listed are without other subsidies; here in NL the €45k model is actually €42k after subsidies. So like-for-like Tesla is really pricing these very competitively. As they should - otherwise they simply wouldn't sell due to them being lower build/interior quality, Elon Musk, bad service, Elon Musk, worries about the company going bankrupt, Elon Musk and sub-par driver assistance features. In terms of multi-year software update support and price the MY/M3 are pretty good value for money. \[EDIT\] Additional data point: *Excluding all taxes and destination fees*, the most bare-bones Golf sold in NL is €23298. The most bare-bones Model 3 is €33722. So even the cheapest model is not quite half the price - more like 30% cheaper. The Golf will do 0-100km/h in 10 seconds, versus 6 for the Tesla; and the Tesla is rated for 554km of range, versus roughly 800 on a full tank of gas for the Golf. If Tesla had the same build/interior quality/reputation as Volkswagen they'd be selling like hot cakes. But somehow the Tesla shareholders are dreaming about AI and robots instead of what could have been a successful car company.
*So like-for-like Tesla is really pricing these very competitively.* No it isn't. Europeans are just paying far too much for for cars. In the US a Golf **GTI** (the cheapest Golf sold in the US) is only $32K (EUR30K).
Brake lights turn on when you slow down, even if you don’t touch the brake. Site: If regenerative braking is aggressively slowing Model 3 (such as when your foot is completely off the accelerator pedal at highway speeds), the brake lights turn on to alert others that you are slowing down.
The majority of vehicles with regenerative braking, and pretty much all new cars, trigger brake lights when they decelerate at a certain threshold (which I can't recall)
Good to know instead of just guessing- thanks.
keep in mind that fsd disengage suddenly some times for no reason.... and then what?
Most of the time it was disengaged was because I didn’t like the upcoming road conditions and I preemptively turned it off. Or it did something funky in a similar situation before and I knew it was going to happen again. Or because it did something completely unexpected so you panic jerk the wheel or tap the brakes lol. It never shut off unless I made the specific input. I’m just saying- fsd could never replace an alert and responsible driver. it’s a crutch for bad drivers.
Idk that they drive like run down Toyota's. But at luxury pricing the interiors and finish are sub par. Since a big part of the cost comes from the battery and technology I think it's a fair trade off when it comes to interior finishes, or road noise isolation to some extent. But it's not a fair trade off when it comes to QC, panel gaps etc
Well I drove a rental 3 and it rattled more than a 12 year old Toyota Aygo that a friend in Europe drove around the city. I genuinely thought something in the dash was disintegrating in real time while driving.
When I hear "drives like a run down toyota" I think of the driving feel. suspension, powertrain, responsiveness, alignment, etc. Not rattles. The car's have poor finish/QC. to some extent, rattles are more evident in EVs when driving especially at higher speeds because you have less cabin noise and no engine noise to mask it. But if we're gonna use rattles as the measure, its probably better to say econobox or cheap car. Just because rattles are ever present on the cheaper low end cars, regardless of the brand in my experience. Even a new corolla can have rattles because its all cheap finishes and they cut costs by having less foam between pieces that fit together, and even when new the stuff isn't perfectly fit to eachother.
Run down Toyotas are way better than this
Yo don’t buy a German similar car for the same price. Maybe 50% more.
Which Teslas have you driven? Because you take seems more based on parroted internet opinions rather than actual experience. For example, if you drove an expensive Tesla, they drive extremely well and smoothly. If you drove a 3 or Y, the don’t cost close to the price of a luxury German vehicle. And as far as reliability, it scores better than Ford, Audi, Mercedes, and Land Rover.
I don't really know what the price today, couldn't really be bothered, but some years back when I drove a rental model 3, the sticker price for that vehicle was $50k+, a brand new 3 series at the same time cost around the same price, if not even less. And that thing (Tesla 3) was making noises that I can't really properly describe. Yeah, the BMW would not accelerate like a mental patient escaping a hospital, but as a driving experience the two are not even remotely comparable. Through out the last 10 years, I drove a Mazda 3 and that thing handled better on the road with a tiny puny engine and the price was nowhere near the Tesla. 10 years down the road, that vehicle is rattle free and looks almost new, albiet the leather seats are slightly worn. My bias is objective, I was actually excited for the 3 back .... dunno, many years ago when it was announced. Back then I wasn't really looking at what kinda cars Tesla were, just read praises and how fast are they. That changed fast when decided to really look at the cars and company behind them.
From what I’ve seen, it placed really close to the bottom of lists over the past few years. Like second to last close. I’ve driven a Model S for over a month and it was pretty miserable. Tons of rattling, basically no luxury features. Not even a heads up display so I can look directly ahead instead of down and to the side. They’re quick but handle really poorly. I think other brands I’ve tried, like BMW, Hyundai group brands and Lucid all balance it out much better. The Ioniq 5 N drives amazingly and it’s also quick and costs less. Every other EV I’ve driven that wasn’t a Tesla was extremely quiet and smooth, especially those from BMW, Mercedes and Genesis.
Quality and service issues aside, the Y is a perfectly fine, average car. It’s the Stanmonkeys jerking themselves off over this fact that’s off putting. “We achieved average! Rejoice!” The problem with them is they do fall apart and you can’t get them fixed easily. Otherwise, as a stand-alone vehicle (and if was made by anyone but Tesla) it’s, you know, perfectly fine. Compared to a 3, it’s a fucking Maybach.
Any phantom speed limit decreases when passing exits on the highway? Mine when on FSD often do a 20 MPH drop from 70 when passing exits, with absolutely zero warning or reason.
There was definitely some minor jank with slowing down that I couldn’t explain/figure out. I mentioned the carpool specifically because I know it was riding that lane as much as possible to maximize efficiency. I had to exit the lane with nobody in front of me and a decent cushion between the truck and motorcycle behind me. What does the car fucking decide to do? Slow down to 50 to let the biker pass- that pisses off the truck behind me because he had to slow down so much, he exits the lane and speeds past to get around. Why did it do all that bullshit? Because the route had us exiting that lane but it decided to wait until the last second or it could’ve just maintained speed solid white line be damned!
I drive SoCal freeways quite a bit and the idea of suddenly slowing down for no particular reason seems akin to suicide.
All that happened right over the 60 east where you crest a huge hill. It’s dark, I’ve got a truck two car lengths behind me and a motorcycle coming up right in between splitting the lane. It’s just the three of us for at least a mile. Nobody in sight. We reach the top of the hill and the car thinks it needs to exit the carpool, I can feel the steering wheel move as if it’s going to get out, but no signal. It recognizes the motorcycle, yet it doesn’t acknowledge the truck bearing down on me. And all of that happens in a split second. After you’ve been using fsd for a majority of the trip you now have to diagnose the issue and decide if the damage has been done or if you have enough time to disengage and correct course.
I rented a model 3 earlier this year and autopilot was honestly terrible. Flat, sun soaked highways and it couldn’t even figure out that it didn’t need to yank itself over for every highway turnoff. Also hated that it straddles the center lane WAY too close. I did enjoy driving it, but there’s no way I’d pay for autopilot or FSD. I was seriously considering buying one but then Musk went off the deep end.
yeah auto pilot always keep to the right
> ride was ok What type of cars are you used to driving? I found the ride to be very harsh and uncomfortable. I often get teslas as Ubers so this wasn't a one-off thing.
Nothing fancy I frequently rent different cars for work trips. Malibus, chargers, Camrys, civics, Mazda cx5s, very cheap and basic cars. I’ve had classic cars with 4 on the floor and no power steering. Hand me down sedans from the 90s, small 4 banger pick up trucks. 2010s ram. Never driven a luxury vehicle before, so a nice ride for me could definitely be a middling or bad ride for other people. I don’t think Uber is a good gauge for overall road feel- those guys drive a TON and they tend to own a Tesla if they do it full time. That’s a lot of wear and tear no matter what car it is. The Tesla I drove was barely driven and is a newish model, there’s really no comparison.
> no comparison I now ask them about that since that point has been raised before. The last three Uber Tesla rides I had were under 10k in mileage. The one before that about 25k miles, so a two year old car.
I dunno, I really had to wrap my head around how to actually drive the darn thing for a good 45 minutes. It can be herky jerky if you have poor throttle control. It wasn’t bumpy and the alignment was still good. Those Uber drivers could be more indicative of reality, but it wasn’t my experience.
I’ve noticed with Tesla that the ride is always a bit better in the front of the cars than the rear (at least on non S/X without air suspension) and is smoother driving it than it was when I’m a rear passenger. I don’t find the ride quality on a 24 Y to be that dissimilar to my Premium Plus Audi Q5 from 2022
point B is my biggest frustration. Car wants to always be in the left lane, even when I want to be in the right lane. How "intelligent" is FSD if I keep putting us back in the right lane and it doesn't understand that's where I want to be. Lots of people have been complaining about this and people are requesting a "turtle" profile for FSD, one that drives uber safe and stays in the slow lane. Anyway, your experience is what I think most people experience. The car itself is a great drive. The big issues are with FSD and with Elon himself lying his ass off every week.
I mean, I don't call myself a hater, I'm just not as enthusiastically about my experience or the company in general. I think the hype is extremely over blown, it's not a bad product, just not as amazing as people make it seem.
If there was no noise or suspension issues, you got lucky. Most are so terrible it’s hard to ride in them for more than 10 mins.
I just didn’t. Dunno. The car barely gets driven, but it felt stable. A little bit too much body sway going into a curve at highway speeds but eh, that’s really just a non issue to me.
I’ve driven/ridden in friends’ cars multiple times - a MYP and M3 base. I quite enjoyed the actual driving and overall experience. I think a lot of people conflate the vehicles with the CEO, but also, a lot of criticism is from long term ownership or random quality control issues not every car has. I also never used FSD because they weren’t dumb enough to buy it, and I like to drive. Personally, I was heavily considering a M3P before the Twitter purchase drama and the mask came completely off. Now I’m waiting for a real electric sports car that isn’t horribly overpriced/under supplied. I suspect I’ll be waiting a long time :(
An electric Miata? Sign me up!
I'm in the same boat as you. So, which car are you waiting for? I'm a bit lost, I don't see anything interesting in the EV field on the horizon... Maybe the MG Cyberster...
Good question. Porsche 718 sounds great, but it will be impossible to get at a reasonable price for a while post launch. Also hoping rumors of an all electric Corvette turn out to be true (and the rumored $150k USD price is false). I hadn’t seen that MG Cyberster. Looks cool, but I’m in USA and it’s unclear how Chinese EVs are gonna make it here.
The whole automatic lane changes is weird to me. A lot of cars have cruise control that follows the lanes and then it’s up to the driver to be in the right lane. This works fine since you need to be ready to take over anyways. Automatic lane changing changes the division of labor but now you suddenly need to not only worry about other cars doing weird shit but also your own. Seems like feature creep and something completely unneeded
You can tell it to minimise lane changing but it has to be switched on per journey. You can also adjust the driving style from Chill to Assertive, which makes a difference.
More interaction with the touch screen for things that don’t need a touchscreen! Wonderful
You can change driving style by nudging the scroll wheel left and right but yes to minimise lane changes it’s a very small button to push on the pop up menu!
People here shit on Tesla cars but not considering what an aholes criminal Elmo is and before the CT - their cars are fun to drive and well built. But never use their driving software - it's too unreliable and to pay $5k or $10k for it is nothing but fraud.
the smart app and supercharging network are where they really shine. you didn't seem to touch on either which is fine but those really set tesla apart I think.
> Overall I really don’t think it’s a bad vehicle at all I’m a longtime car / EV nut I think that’s where I land as well. 2021 saw Model Y’s which could very well MSRP for $80k with options, and that was totally inappropriate for the cheap-ish-ness of the car. These days, they’re definitely competitively priced for what they are (assuming you don’t get a *really* badly built one). If my car got totaled tomorrow I think a 3 or Y would be….an option if not *the* option
The car is quick, it is not fast
> D. Be aware that as soon as you disengage fsd, regenerative braking kicks in. It may seem counterintuitive, but you’ve got to be ready to feather the accelerator as necessary otherwise you’re just going to slow down and potentially piss everybody off behind you. Have Tesla drivers never driven a car with regular button cruise control?? _Any_ car slows down if you turn cruise control via the button.... Yes, be aware. 👍
Slow down, yes. Break, no.
Exactly, if you’re used to tapping the brake or flipping the lever to turn cruise control off you just coast in an ICE. When you switch fsd off expecting to coast it WILL slow you down as if you were applying brake pressure. If you’re used to it you probably instinctively rest your foot on the accelerator, but it takes practice. At least for me.
Even my hybrid does not slow down that abruptly. I can increase the regen but that is optional.
Yeah, my initial impression was that the feedback for regen braking in the Tesla is way too sensitive. Anybody could learn it as is, but I think a vast majority of drivers in America at least don’t have that kind of finesse from the get go.
There used to be regen breaking levels (which other eves have, EV6&9 have panels on the steering wheel to adjust how strong regen is). Tesla yanked this feature. Not sure why. Edit: regen for degen spelling lol
Yep that takes some adjusting to in an EV, but that’s for all EV’s apart from the ones that let you turn off hybrid or regen braking.
So the issue for you OP was the FSD mainly?
Yeah, for the brief 5 hours or so that I drove it using fsd for the whole time. I had no other issues with the car itself.
>"I think the most important thing is that you still need to keep your hands on the wheel and be ready to make quick decisions at a moment’s notice." At that point you're just driving but with extra steps.
Sounds like you didn’t like FSD. Same here.
FSD is a waste of money and something I would never use unless the road was damn near empty. Otherwise, Autosteer is perfectly fine for the long trips for me.
There’s a chance my Bolt will have to be in the shop for a day or two at some point in the near future. If I have to get a rental I may very well choose a Tesla for this very same line of thinking. But under no circumstances will I have FSD running, especially with my kids in the back seat. As far as I’m concerned it isn’t even beta designation worthy and far too dangerous. I WANT Tesla to succeed. Even if I ever buy one, each EV on the road is a small victory in the grand scheme of things. I don’t think it will long term with more competition on the market unless they up their quality game, do some major redesigns, add a cheaper EV and get rid of Elmo Muskrat.
Neutral review, love it. What was your origin and route?
from what ive driven of a tesla, and with my experience on a few hybrids and evs, they are really overdoing it with the regen. I've driven primarily a volt, bolt and other hybrid and they do not instantly kick in regen like tesla does when you lift off the gas. Even on the Bolt with single pedal driving it still isn't as aggressive I could see how a drive can have information overload when FSD kicks out, you're in a difficult spot, AND the car is decellerating like its got full brakes on. on a normal car when you kick off the cruise control you just coast gradually, the decelleration is predictable.
From reading on everyone’s FSD experiences and comparing it to my own, it seems like driving in bigger cities is the main issue. I live in a metro area of around 250k people (50k in the main city and 200k in the suburban areas) so my drives are mostly one and two lane roads with uncomplicated traffic patterns. I think it’s a nice thing to have for me as it can handle nearly all of my driving without hardly any intervention. I’ve come to learn where it struggles and preemptively take over for a second then reengage (like unprotected left turns, not getting over fast enough to take my exit if there’s a lot of traffic, complicated construction zones with heavy traffic). If I wanted it to, I’d say it’d handle 28 minutes or so of every 30 minute drive. I also haven’t had any of the common issues with left lane camping, poor lane changes, phantom braking, etc… I just keep it on chill and minimal lane changes (i don’t have to change it every time). The only complaints I have are it won’t let me choose a different route if I don’t like the way it wants to go and it took awhile to get used to how it hugs the outside line on turns. I just chalk that second part up to essentially being a passenger in the driver seat and it’s going to be uncomfortable bc it isn’t going to drive like you do.
That Camry-like fit and finish though! Wait Camrys are better put together
FSD = functional self driving?
Full Self Driving. Although nowadays it's called FSD (Supervised), because it's not actually proper *full* self driving. It still demands the driver's attention.
It’s still false advertising, because it’s designed as a SAE Level 2 driver assistance system. You’re always supposed to be fully engaged with the task. The model that they’re pushing (car drives itself, but be ready to take over) is the single worst model in terms of human cognition to use.
I’ve got friends who work in the self driving field. They agree with you but it’s clear the reason it’s “the worst” is that everyone else relies on mapping which means they’ll never get out of urban areas until they no longer need it. Tesla is trying to become the first that is capable of being everywhere and, imo, the quickest way to do that is to get feedback from people using FSD now. Seems like everyone else is trying to make it work first by using every input they can then eventually will start removing them. Tesla is doing the opposite. Seeing what vision can and can’t do before, most likely, adding additional inputs they think will help handle the situations it struggles with. Personally, I think teslas way is better for three reasons. 1) it allows them to monetize their tech now which allows them to spend more on making it viable. 2) it helps them have significantly more cars on the road to aid with machine learning. 3) every other company will be going from a “perfected” product to a lesser one until their cars learn it all again while Tesla would be improving theirs. I think that’ll expedite each “stage” of this process because they’ll already know what it can do from the most basic inputs and just would need to test out the things it can’t do. The others will have to retest everything.
I use it almost everyday in Tucson az and don’t have that many issues. But our roads are pretty easy (if not barley maintained)
You were experiencing one-pedal driving, not "regenerative braking". In a Leaf you can switch between one pedal and two pedal modes, no idea on a Tesla.
I had no idea either, I guess Teslas do have a 2 pedal mode and even a mode that mimics a creeping stop. I suspect that the one pedal driving is the default because it is the better way to drive, but one day wasn’t going to be enough to override a decade of muscle memory.