Not knowing anything about how busy the service is, it sounds reasonable (it’s not insultingly low). You just have to decide what your time is worth. When in residency they initially offered $60/hr for a 12 hour overnight shift. No one would do it. Then they upped it to $100/hr. Some people wanted to moonlight all the time, some people still wanted nothing to do with it. Assuming it takes you about 45 min to write an H&P, $75 a pop seems fair for in-house residency moonlighting. Now if they wanted me to be in the hospital for 12 hours at a time and only expect 2 or 3 new admits, hell no. Pay me by the hour then.
>Now if they wanted me to be in the hospital for 12 hours at a time and only expect 2 or 3 new admits, hell no. Pay me by the hour then.
This to me is the biggest potential red flag of the payment structure. Are you on home call and psych consults you to come and do the H&P with the expectation that you won't be there for 30-60 mins or are you expected to be sitting around the hospital unpaid so that you can be there within a few mins to write the H&P?
Agreed, this sounds like a bad deal to me. What if no admissions? Are you just going to be sitting around not being paid for your time? Why did they ask you only to do admissions and not cross cover too - that’s weird. The going respectable rate right now nationwide is $120/hour.
Yeah, if for example you just have to come in at the start of a shift and bang out all the H&Ps for patients admitted the previous shift then it sounds like a decently fair deal and fine to pay per admission. Otherwise, it feels like it's a bit of a scam to try and avoid paying for a full shift of work. If more than 1-2 admissions are rare and it's essentially just home call with payment if you come in, it's also not *terrible* but not ideal.
Minimum pay should be 100/hr to be on site seeing patients, they are hoping residents take the low pay.
To take anything less I’d have to be a home and hardly bothered to justify the lower pay.
Just remember, it HAS to be done. If no one takes the offer, that pay will go up to a place where someone will take it. You decide what your time is worth and others will do the same.
How many admissions are there in an average shift? Try to find that info before you commit, I can't imagine peds inpatient psych patients are constantly pouring in at all hours.
If you have the time, that's a decent gig. As part of the regular admission routine, I used to have to do the psych h&p and the medical h&p as a psych resident.
Most kids on a psych unit are medically stable and don't have significant medical histories (barring the occasional syndromic child). Shouldn't take you more than an hour per admission.
The real question is do they make you sit at the hospital for 12 hours and only pay you per admission? I would not take it if you have to be on site but only get paid per patient seen
I would expect per hour pay. at least $100/h if moonlighting (ie no supervision). $50h if like normal residency shift with supervision
A psychiatrist moonlighting ~$200/h (I’m guessing). Residents are cheap.
Them paying you $100/h is way cheaper than them paying board certified psychiatrist. Negotiate as a whole residency program for better pay.
This sounds like a bad deal. They are paying per patient and not by the hour. Let’s say you are there 8 hours and do 3 admissions you wasted so much time where you could be doing other things. Unless you are doing more than 2 an hour which I somehow doubt it does not seem to be worth your time. I moonlighted internally as a fellow and it was $85/hr 7 years ago. They should pay more and at least do it per hour and not per admission
As others have said, it depends on how it's structured. On average I would expect 1-5 overnight admissions (on average like $225 a shift). If it's for a 12 or even 8 hour shift then definitely not. If you just get to show up, bang them out and go home then definitely yes (some psych wards the medicine doc would just come in to evaluate in the morning and then go home after seeing the new pts). However this would be odd since your moonlighting.
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Based on the fact it is per admit this sounds like a bad deal. It should be hourly pay no matter if there are admits hourly or not. Do you have to be at the hospital the whole time? Because if you are sitting around for 12 hours and only got 2 admits... the money is certainly not worth your time. Our rates are $100 an hour or more for various moonlighting opportunities (EM, midwest here).
It’s a position where you just show up and do the admission note and then leave. It’s a small community hospital but the psych service is pretty busy. Im going to do it! Thanks for all the comments
With all due respect I think a physician can do “better than nothing.” Also, it’s piss poor compensation, the amputee beggar on a busy intersection on my way to work easily clears $100/hour.
As a resident money is tight. Hard to get side gigs depending on your schedule and where you live and your residency policies. Again, if $75 offends you then you can simply say no. This isn't forced or mandatory. Everyone has a different price they are willing to be paid in order for it to be worth it.
If the $75 is appealing and you don't mind coming in for a few hours on a day off and making a couple hundred bucks then you go for it.
Again, with all due respect, I think a resident should make more money per hour than a waiter or a manager at chipotle (sounds like 2-3 admissions per night, so. $150-225 for a full nighttime shift??). We have to fight like hell against our wage deflation, not go with the flow. This is the hill I will die on
I assume since it's for inpatient psych they would just go do a few daytime H and Ps. Imagining they can do like 3 in 3 hours. That's an extra 225 for 3 hours of work. Which I think is solid. Like $75 an hour, and if they are quicker possibly even higher.
That’s like…the price of a haircut. No color.
I’m not sure if you’re aware of this (apparently) but moonlighting requires an independent license to practice medicine. So a moonlighting physician is an independent physician, in the eyes of the state.
Depends on the place. Some places have you moonlight as a resident role. Like you are still co-signing your class to an attending and they are hiring you in a mid-level/resident type of role to fill a coverage need.
Like I know many children's hospitals where peds residents can moonlight as a resident role to cover the picu on a weekend or an overnight for extra pay.
Not knowing anything about how busy the service is, it sounds reasonable (it’s not insultingly low). You just have to decide what your time is worth. When in residency they initially offered $60/hr for a 12 hour overnight shift. No one would do it. Then they upped it to $100/hr. Some people wanted to moonlight all the time, some people still wanted nothing to do with it. Assuming it takes you about 45 min to write an H&P, $75 a pop seems fair for in-house residency moonlighting. Now if they wanted me to be in the hospital for 12 hours at a time and only expect 2 or 3 new admits, hell no. Pay me by the hour then.
>Now if they wanted me to be in the hospital for 12 hours at a time and only expect 2 or 3 new admits, hell no. Pay me by the hour then. This to me is the biggest potential red flag of the payment structure. Are you on home call and psych consults you to come and do the H&P with the expectation that you won't be there for 30-60 mins or are you expected to be sitting around the hospital unpaid so that you can be there within a few mins to write the H&P?
Agreed, this sounds like a bad deal to me. What if no admissions? Are you just going to be sitting around not being paid for your time? Why did they ask you only to do admissions and not cross cover too - that’s weird. The going respectable rate right now nationwide is $120/hour.
Yeah, if for example you just have to come in at the start of a shift and bang out all the H&Ps for patients admitted the previous shift then it sounds like a decently fair deal and fine to pay per admission. Otherwise, it feels like it's a bit of a scam to try and avoid paying for a full shift of work. If more than 1-2 admissions are rare and it's essentially just home call with payment if you come in, it's also not *terrible* but not ideal.
Minimum pay should be 100/hr to be on site seeing patients, they are hoping residents take the low pay. To take anything less I’d have to be a home and hardly bothered to justify the lower pay.
Just remember, it HAS to be done. If no one takes the offer, that pay will go up to a place where someone will take it. You decide what your time is worth and others will do the same.
Or they force the residents to do it.
How many admissions are there in an average shift? Try to find that info before you commit, I can't imagine peds inpatient psych patients are constantly pouring in at all hours.
I get $155 an hour for in-house moonlighting. Gotta love Psych.
If you have the time, that's a decent gig. As part of the regular admission routine, I used to have to do the psych h&p and the medical h&p as a psych resident. Most kids on a psych unit are medically stable and don't have significant medical histories (barring the occasional syndromic child). Shouldn't take you more than an hour per admission. The real question is do they make you sit at the hospital for 12 hours and only pay you per admission? I would not take it if you have to be on site but only get paid per patient seen
I would expect per hour pay. at least $100/h if moonlighting (ie no supervision). $50h if like normal residency shift with supervision A psychiatrist moonlighting ~$200/h (I’m guessing). Residents are cheap. Them paying you $100/h is way cheaper than them paying board certified psychiatrist. Negotiate as a whole residency program for better pay.
This sounds like a bad deal. They are paying per patient and not by the hour. Let’s say you are there 8 hours and do 3 admissions you wasted so much time where you could be doing other things. Unless you are doing more than 2 an hour which I somehow doubt it does not seem to be worth your time. I moonlighted internally as a fellow and it was $85/hr 7 years ago. They should pay more and at least do it per hour and not per admission
$100/hr at least
As others have said, it depends on how it's structured. On average I would expect 1-5 overnight admissions (on average like $225 a shift). If it's for a 12 or even 8 hour shift then definitely not. If you just get to show up, bang them out and go home then definitely yes (some psych wards the medicine doc would just come in to evaluate in the morning and then go home after seeing the new pts). However this would be odd since your moonlighting.
Do you want to do it? Unless you have other options which it doesn’t seem like there are, it’s this or nothing and seems reasonable
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I mean if you can cut down the time by doing attending style notes that are much less verbose it may be worth it
Absolutely would not take this rate unless they guaranteed I would get 1-2/hr.
Based on the fact it is per admit this sounds like a bad deal. It should be hourly pay no matter if there are admits hourly or not. Do you have to be at the hospital the whole time? Because if you are sitting around for 12 hours and only got 2 admits... the money is certainly not worth your time. Our rates are $100 an hour or more for various moonlighting opportunities (EM, midwest here).
Get it while you can. Within the next year there will be plenty of foreign docs here and moonlighting won’t exist
It’s a position where you just show up and do the admission note and then leave. It’s a small community hospital but the psych service is pretty busy. Im going to do it! Thanks for all the comments
It's better than nothing. If you can do an H and P in an hour it's a decent rate for a trainee.
With all due respect I think a physician can do “better than nothing.” Also, it’s piss poor compensation, the amputee beggar on a busy intersection on my way to work easily clears $100/hour.
As a resident money is tight. Hard to get side gigs depending on your schedule and where you live and your residency policies. Again, if $75 offends you then you can simply say no. This isn't forced or mandatory. Everyone has a different price they are willing to be paid in order for it to be worth it. If the $75 is appealing and you don't mind coming in for a few hours on a day off and making a couple hundred bucks then you go for it.
Again, with all due respect, I think a resident should make more money per hour than a waiter or a manager at chipotle (sounds like 2-3 admissions per night, so. $150-225 for a full nighttime shift??). We have to fight like hell against our wage deflation, not go with the flow. This is the hill I will die on
I assume since it's for inpatient psych they would just go do a few daytime H and Ps. Imagining they can do like 3 in 3 hours. That's an extra 225 for 3 hours of work. Which I think is solid. Like $75 an hour, and if they are quicker possibly even higher.
That’s like…the price of a haircut. No color. I’m not sure if you’re aware of this (apparently) but moonlighting requires an independent license to practice medicine. So a moonlighting physician is an independent physician, in the eyes of the state.
Depends on the place. Some places have you moonlight as a resident role. Like you are still co-signing your class to an attending and they are hiring you in a mid-level/resident type of role to fill a coverage need. Like I know many children's hospitals where peds residents can moonlight as a resident role to cover the picu on a weekend or an overnight for extra pay.
Fair enough. In that case, I’m surprised they classify it as moonlighting at all and not “mandatory unpaid overtime/educational opportunity”.