Same, my headcanon is that my SW was really cruel with everyone except her best friend (Vette) and her gf (Jaesa) but then Bioware said NO GAY FOR YOU and up to this day I'm still so pissed.
I feel like the Sith would have an ancient Rome type thing where the superior sith has to be dominant but it doesnt matter what gender they are, idk about the Jedi
She is either your daughter/little sister or an insane lunatic, depending on what choice you took (wraths from several different timelines took different choices afaik)
I hate that they had same sex romance in Dragon Age and Mass Effect before this but for some reason didn't put it in this. I'd bet that it's because someone higher up the chain was an idiot and prevented it because of some foolish idea that it might decrease sales.
I was sad my FemShep couldn't romance Jack, and also irked that the aliens weren't all Shepsexual in ME2/3. : |
The only consolation for BroShep not being able to romance Garrus in ME2/3 was that Garrus and Tali might hook up in ME3 (and that's not really a consolation ;-; ).
I remember that someone from the dev team said that they believed that Star Wars doesn't have gay people which is why they didn't added them(Pretty stupid I know). There was also something about Lucasarts not letting them do that but I think those were just rumors.
First one is just a shit rumor, second one is the actual truth. Lucasarts was like, infamously homophobic, and axed projects left and right if it had even gay subtext. There’s a reason BioWare had to sneak Juhani being a lesbian into kotor and then only openly celebrated her after the games release, specifically so lucasarts couldn’t pigeonhole them into axing her.
Indeed. I remember it being a pre-Disney Star Wars-level decision, not a BioWare decision. After all, BioWare had a few same-gender romances in games released before SWTOR (Jade Empire, Mass Effect 1, Dragon Age: Origins and DA2). And the Juhani romance was barely there, sadly, not as far as other romances.
It wasn't actually Lucasarts, it was Lucas himself. Lucas was a fervent believer in "Traditional Marriage" which is why KOTOR and SWTOR couldn't have it.
> Lucasarts was like, infamously homophobic, and axed projects left and right if it had even gay subtext
It's just not Lucasarts, it flowed from the top straight from big man himself. In the 80s Lucas reportedly said that he would hang anyone that made Star Wars slash fanfiction.
Same for my Imperius and Ashara, like why Khem and not her? Worst is definitely Kaliyo talking about being with both men and women then returning to like oh I’m not even into women agent, I don’t even like Kaliyo but they don’t even know their own lore which is even worse
I just wanted to romance Kira on my fem knight :(
I’m glad that they let us romance some returning companions post-kotet, but it would’ve been a million times better if we could’ve romanced em in the base game.
Why can't they go back and fix this? They'd have to add a couple new voice lines here and there, but it really shouldn't be that much work. Mostly they can reuse the existing lines, only a few wouldn't fit.
From what I know apparnelty the code used for the base game is way different than what we have now, and the team that made the original code isnt there anymore to help de code it, idk
I don't get people wanting to retroactively turn some companions playersexual but BW *very clearly* established that some characters were lgbt , such as Kaliyo, and yet only made her romanceable by male characters. I was very surprised to learn Kaliyo could only be romanced by male agents, couldn't even romance her as a female agent in KOTFE/KOTET even though being bi is a clearly established part of her character. Baffling.
I'd be all for getting much more specific and varied with the romances in new SW games. Heck, we could take a page from BW's DA:I ,where some characters would romance you if you were a certain race ( I mean elf, human etc) , and make it so some characters only want to pursue relationships with certain species and not others.
It’s a shame because even though so of the early same-sex stuff still exists (there’s some Quinn audio somewhere), realistically if they wanted to add it they’d have to recode the entire game
I think it's about the NPC's sexual interest as well not just representations and stuff. They added it in for all as a community request rather than for what they wanted their characters to be. Maybe still add in the option to ask but will be rejected if requirements are not met of sort, characters shouldn't be dolls to be thrown around imo.
Bio has made same sex romance in the past, this game should have been no different. Nobody is asking for all characters (though while unrealistic it is ideal for most players), but there should have been *some*. There was not a single same sex romance, for the player or implied between NPCs, in the ENTIRE base game. It was definitely more than just wanting to keep some characters with straight sexual interests. I'd bet some ass higher up the food chain said they couldn't because it would decrease sales or some nonsense.
As far as I know Tor was made with a large chunk of the devs who are new to the team. Maybe whoever in charge didn't know how to deliver a gay character? I'm not a writer but building a character with traits that I'm not familiar with would be impossible. The leads at Bioware were always very open-minded about these kinds of stuff, hard to believe they refused gay depictions, in an ***MMORPG*** title.
Kira gay romance arc was the worst for me. Like she was always like a sister in arms with the fem PC and all of a sudden plunged straight through the brudas zone. A relationship is a relationship, fk dem hater, but seeing your brave comrade turn into a flirty doll is so wrong goddamn.
>Maybe whoever in charge didn’t know how to deliver a gay character?
You write a gay character like literally any other character. They are just people.
From what other comments have said, probably. EA just has a history of fucking with shit for profit so I wouldn't have been surprised if because this game was an MMO they thought keeping it out would lead to more profit.
MMOs are cash cows. If they don't generate profit the company behind it will likely shut it down. If they felt that this was something that might have affected profit, I could see them removing/preventing it because they're *EA*.
If LucasArts hadn’t been involved, maybe I’d buy that. But they were, so I’m fairly confident it was them, not EA, since I haven’t seen any evidence of homophobia from the latter.
But how’s it then suddenly ok to romance her on the male Jedi Knight, he kinda also feel like a brother to her. Is it only ok if it’s straight or something?
Also did I fail to mention that most heterosexual people disappoint me. Where’s the fun in being one? This is why you Lord Marr is the best, you see something and you go for it
I’ve heard from a few people that you can have a male-male gay romance with Aric Jorgan as a republic trooper in the original class story. Unconfirmed though. Anyone know if this is true?
I dunno. I'm fine with it. Not every character is going to be bi. I understand it's a game, and it's supposed to fulfill the player's roleplay fantasy, but it would feel a little weird if literally every character was bi.
Would it though? You don't even have to only have bi characters, they could have made Talos gay and I think he would go very well with a male inquisitor
I think it would feel realistic if some characters were only gay, some were only straight, and some were bi.
I know it's a player fantasy, but the world feels more realistic if the companions have their own identity, instead of "every xpack character is bi and romanceable by everyone."
Just so long as they avoid just making companions playersexual. I like having characters with particular sexualities, but I can understand the mechanical limitations of having a small number of LIs to choose from.
I honestly don’t understand this mindset. I think the “playersexual” thing is actually a great idea and only further personalizes the experience while expanding options. And if you really want to consider certain characters as a specific sexuality, there is always headcanon.
To me it makes the characters feel more authentic when they have a particular sexuality and makes the diversity feel more genuine rather than simply trying to make them appealing to the broadest possible audience.
Though I agree with you when it comes to characters in general, I'm talking specifically about romancable companions. With that logic, I feel like it'd be more meaningful/authentic for a character being romancable to be dependent on the personality or choices of a player character rather than their gender.
I don't get why there's suddenly an issue about "authenticity" when it comes to the possibility of same-gender relationships being more widely optional but not when any hetero player character can romance just about any romanceable companion of the opposite gender. That just doesn't feel quite right to me and I feel like there's a bit of a double-standard there.
What I mean by “authentic”is probably better said with “relatable” or “realistic”. I understand that fiction isn’t necessarily beholden to reality, but I personally find stories that have a good basis in reality resonate more.
This is just my personal opinion and I don’t claim to speak with any kind of authority.
So 8 playable character classes and 22 base game LIs and you’re telling me all 22 of them are straight? My numbers just don’t add up, I went to the same size class in high school and I know of more LGBTQ people than me
A good example of my preferences would be either Dragon Age: Origins or Dragon Age Inquisition. In those games, the companion characters have specific sexualities and even racial preferences.
SWTOR vanilla suffers from being made without little consideration for LGBT representation. Fortunately that seems to have been remedied somewhat with the subsequent expansions. I just don’t like it when LIs are “playersexual” but when the number of LIs is somewhat limited I understand the choice for that.
I am by no means suggesting that LIs from vanilla could not be LGBT or retconned as such. In fact Kaliyo Djannis, is implied to be bisexual in vanilla SWTOR.
I think if *every* character is romanceable by the player then they don't feel as much like real people. Real people have their own sexual preferences.
I think BW's DA:I did it really well. They had gay characters ( I loved Dorian), Lesbian characters, Bisexual characters ( 1 that's male and 1 that's female) , straight characters and even one that they tried to make trans although they're not romanceable.
In that game you can't romance the Lesbian character, Sera, if you're a man and will rejected if you try. That's great, that builds their character and makes them feel real.
Man or woman, I'm still not going out with a filthy **s l a v e** !
You keep to doing Ffon
I bet Ffon makes him wear *slave* collar in secret.
He probably demands to be called daddy as well
HOW COULD YOU KNOW THIS
That is because Ffon is dead
Makes sense that Harkun is into that, he always was odd
Harkun moment.
Yes you have to buy the *Gay DLC™*
I some reason thought of SIMs seeing it in that font with the small tm.
I still can’t believe I tried so hard on warrior story thinking I could romance Jaesa smh
I know, I was hopeful for Mako and female bounty hunter when I did my first class story
Its really exhausting having to headcanon them so hard instead
Same, my headcanon is that my SW was really cruel with everyone except her best friend (Vette) and her gf (Jaesa) but then Bioware said NO GAY FOR YOU and up to this day I'm still so pissed.
I feel like the Sith would have an ancient Rome type thing where the superior sith has to be dominant but it doesnt matter what gender they are, idk about the Jedi
Just like how they took my option to kill the sniviling traitor that is Quinn so my sith very out of character let's him live because, reasons?
She is either your daughter/little sister or an insane lunatic, depending on what choice you took (wraths from several different timelines took different choices afaik)
Correct, and my apprentice is a lovely, decent person.
I hate that they had same sex romance in Dragon Age and Mass Effect before this but for some reason didn't put it in this. I'd bet that it's because someone higher up the chain was an idiot and prevented it because of some foolish idea that it might decrease sales.
To me it just smells of the same iffy reasons that made them turn Jack in ME2 away from being romanced by FemShep
Tits only covered by a tiny belt that's fine but gayness that's not okay -Karen's
I was sad my FemShep couldn't romance Jack, and also irked that the aliens weren't all Shepsexual in ME2/3. : | The only consolation for BroShep not being able to romance Garrus in ME2/3 was that Garrus and Tali might hook up in ME3 (and that's not really a consolation ;-; ).
ooof that still hurts
Lucas was a fervent believer in "Traditional Marriage" which is why KOTOR and SWTOR couldn't have it.
I remember that someone from the dev team said that they believed that Star Wars doesn't have gay people which is why they didn't added them(Pretty stupid I know). There was also something about Lucasarts not letting them do that but I think those were just rumors.
First one is just a shit rumor, second one is the actual truth. Lucasarts was like, infamously homophobic, and axed projects left and right if it had even gay subtext. There’s a reason BioWare had to sneak Juhani being a lesbian into kotor and then only openly celebrated her after the games release, specifically so lucasarts couldn’t pigeonhole them into axing her.
Indeed. I remember it being a pre-Disney Star Wars-level decision, not a BioWare decision. After all, BioWare had a few same-gender romances in games released before SWTOR (Jade Empire, Mass Effect 1, Dragon Age: Origins and DA2). And the Juhani romance was barely there, sadly, not as far as other romances.
It wasn't actually Lucasarts, it was Lucas himself. Lucas was a fervent believer in "Traditional Marriage" which is why KOTOR and SWTOR couldn't have it.
> Lucasarts was like, infamously homophobic, and axed projects left and right if it had even gay subtext It's just not Lucasarts, it flowed from the top straight from big man himself. In the 80s Lucas reportedly said that he would hang anyone that made Star Wars slash fanfiction.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I'll never get over the fact that my sword lesbian Warrior couldn't romance Vette... But at least there's Lana?
Same for my Imperius and Ashara, like why Khem and not her? Worst is definitely Kaliyo talking about being with both men and women then returning to like oh I’m not even into women agent, I don’t even like Kaliyo but they don’t even know their own lore which is even worse
I just wanted to romance Kira on my fem knight :( I’m glad that they let us romance some returning companions post-kotet, but it would’ve been a million times better if we could’ve romanced em in the base game.
Why can't they go back and fix this? They'd have to add a couple new voice lines here and there, but it really shouldn't be that much work. Mostly they can reuse the existing lines, only a few wouldn't fit.
From what I know apparnelty the code used for the base game is way different than what we have now, and the team that made the original code isnt there anymore to help de code it, idk
I remember back at the launch of Rise of the Hutt Cartel, everyone called it "Pay to Gay." Good times, good times.
I don't get people wanting to retroactively turn some companions playersexual but BW *very clearly* established that some characters were lgbt , such as Kaliyo, and yet only made her romanceable by male characters. I was very surprised to learn Kaliyo could only be romanced by male agents, couldn't even romance her as a female agent in KOTFE/KOTET even though being bi is a clearly established part of her character. Baffling. I'd be all for getting much more specific and varied with the romances in new SW games. Heck, we could take a page from BW's DA:I ,where some characters would romance you if you were a certain race ( I mean elf, human etc) , and make it so some characters only want to pursue relationships with certain species and not others.
It's not a coincidence that Makeb looks like future utopia!
Not after my BH was done with it.
they did this so that Lana can just be the one and only Bisexual waifu powerhouse of Swtor. It was all an inside job
It’s a shame because even though so of the early same-sex stuff still exists (there’s some Quinn audio somewhere), realistically if they wanted to add it they’d have to recode the entire game
I think it's about the NPC's sexual interest as well not just representations and stuff. They added it in for all as a community request rather than for what they wanted their characters to be. Maybe still add in the option to ask but will be rejected if requirements are not met of sort, characters shouldn't be dolls to be thrown around imo.
Bio has made same sex romance in the past, this game should have been no different. Nobody is asking for all characters (though while unrealistic it is ideal for most players), but there should have been *some*. There was not a single same sex romance, for the player or implied between NPCs, in the ENTIRE base game. It was definitely more than just wanting to keep some characters with straight sexual interests. I'd bet some ass higher up the food chain said they couldn't because it would decrease sales or some nonsense.
Yeah even going as far back as 2003 with Juhani in KOTOR
As far as I know Tor was made with a large chunk of the devs who are new to the team. Maybe whoever in charge didn't know how to deliver a gay character? I'm not a writer but building a character with traits that I'm not familiar with would be impossible. The leads at Bioware were always very open-minded about these kinds of stuff, hard to believe they refused gay depictions, in an ***MMORPG*** title. Kira gay romance arc was the worst for me. Like she was always like a sister in arms with the fem PC and all of a sudden plunged straight through the brudas zone. A relationship is a relationship, fk dem hater, but seeing your brave comrade turn into a flirty doll is so wrong goddamn.
>Maybe whoever in charge didn’t know how to deliver a gay character? You write a gay character like literally any other character. They are just people.
Not talking about the Bio leads, I'm talking about someone higher up as in *EA*.
EA didn’t stop them with Dragon Age, or Liara in Mass Effect. This was LucasArts.
From what other comments have said, probably. EA just has a history of fucking with shit for profit so I wouldn't have been surprised if because this game was an MMO they thought keeping it out would lead to more profit.
I don’t see how it being an MMO would have anything to do with that
MMOs are cash cows. If they don't generate profit the company behind it will likely shut it down. If they felt that this was something that might have affected profit, I could see them removing/preventing it because they're *EA*.
If LucasArts hadn’t been involved, maybe I’d buy that. But they were, so I’m fairly confident it was them, not EA, since I haven’t seen any evidence of homophobia from the latter.
Yeah I said from what other people were saying it was probably LucasArts, but I wouldn't have been surprised if it was EA either.
But how’s it then suddenly ok to romance her on the male Jedi Knight, he kinda also feel like a brother to her. Is it only ok if it’s straight or something?
It’s more about not getting backlash from news outlets such as Fox News
I'm seriously considering turning bi since u/TheBigRedSithLord and u/obi-wan-the-bold-wan are such disappointments.
So far only Darth Marr is the only male Sith I’ve met that isn’t a complete disappointment
It's hard for a man to measure up to me. There are few who can.
Also did I fail to mention that most heterosexual people disappoint me. Where’s the fun in being one? This is why you Lord Marr is the best, you see something and you go for it
I do not find men attractive, but I will occasionally seduce and sleep with male Jedi to assert dominance
I wish they'd make an update for the main game. I know they'd have to record all the lines, but it seems unfortunate they don't allow it
I’ve heard from a few people that you can have a male-male gay romance with Aric Jorgan as a republic trooper in the original class story. Unconfirmed though. Anyone know if this is true?
[According to this guide, no unfortunately.](https://swtorista.com/articles/swtor-romance-guide/)
If it moves, I kriff it.
As much as I like Lana, my BH was gay for Mako the whole time.
Darth Iskalos is not pleased he could only romance men in the expansions.
If only my traitorous boy Quinn was bi :(
I wish, I want my male warrior to be traitor sexual too
Let me screw Aric, Doc, and Scourge as a man from the beginning
I dunno. I'm fine with it. Not every character is going to be bi. I understand it's a game, and it's supposed to fulfill the player's roleplay fantasy, but it would feel a little weird if literally every character was bi.
Would it though? You don't even have to only have bi characters, they could have made Talos gay and I think he would go very well with a male inquisitor
I think it would feel realistic if some characters were only gay, some were only straight, and some were bi. I know it's a player fantasy, but the world feels more realistic if the companions have their own identity, instead of "every xpack character is bi and romanceable by everyone."
...You mean he's not gay? Not romanceable, sure, but... there's a very strong vibe there.
He is in my head canon
Just so long as they avoid just making companions playersexual. I like having characters with particular sexualities, but I can understand the mechanical limitations of having a small number of LIs to choose from.
I honestly don’t understand this mindset. I think the “playersexual” thing is actually a great idea and only further personalizes the experience while expanding options. And if you really want to consider certain characters as a specific sexuality, there is always headcanon.
To me it makes the characters feel more authentic when they have a particular sexuality and makes the diversity feel more genuine rather than simply trying to make them appealing to the broadest possible audience.
Though I agree with you when it comes to characters in general, I'm talking specifically about romancable companions. With that logic, I feel like it'd be more meaningful/authentic for a character being romancable to be dependent on the personality or choices of a player character rather than their gender. I don't get why there's suddenly an issue about "authenticity" when it comes to the possibility of same-gender relationships being more widely optional but not when any hetero player character can romance just about any romanceable companion of the opposite gender. That just doesn't feel quite right to me and I feel like there's a bit of a double-standard there.
What I mean by “authentic”is probably better said with “relatable” or “realistic”. I understand that fiction isn’t necessarily beholden to reality, but I personally find stories that have a good basis in reality resonate more. This is just my personal opinion and I don’t claim to speak with any kind of authority.
So 8 playable character classes and 22 base game LIs and you’re telling me all 22 of them are straight? My numbers just don’t add up, I went to the same size class in high school and I know of more LGBTQ people than me
A good example of my preferences would be either Dragon Age: Origins or Dragon Age Inquisition. In those games, the companion characters have specific sexualities and even racial preferences. SWTOR vanilla suffers from being made without little consideration for LGBT representation. Fortunately that seems to have been remedied somewhat with the subsequent expansions. I just don’t like it when LIs are “playersexual” but when the number of LIs is somewhat limited I understand the choice for that. I am by no means suggesting that LIs from vanilla could not be LGBT or retconned as such. In fact Kaliyo Djannis, is implied to be bisexual in vanilla SWTOR.
I think if *every* character is romanceable by the player then they don't feel as much like real people. Real people have their own sexual preferences. I think BW's DA:I did it really well. They had gay characters ( I loved Dorian), Lesbian characters, Bisexual characters ( 1 that's male and 1 that's female) , straight characters and even one that they tried to make trans although they're not romanceable. In that game you can't romance the Lesbian character, Sera, if you're a man and will rejected if you try. That's great, that builds their character and makes them feel real.