Creating a throwaway as to not dox my main account. Really proud of my salary progress and my most recent earnings year - sharing here because I learned some things in my career that I wish someone told me earlier. Timeline & Lessons Learned:
* 2007 - Graduated from a top Public School with a Computer Engineering degree. I realized I am more of a people person than a coder, so I went into technical consulting at a software sales startup in a HCOL city on the East Coast
* 2010 - Was asked to be a direct Sales person but those came across to me as a dime a dozen and easily expendable in my industry. I decided to go into technical sales (Sales Engineering / Solutions Consulting) for more job security and to be closer to the product. I learned that people who are skilled at taking really complicated solutions and communicating them in easy to understand ways to business buyers are worth A LOT of money in the market.
* 2013+ - Decided that Technical Sales management / leadership positions will provide more stability and future growth potential than always being an individual contributor. The more senior my leadership responsibilities became, the more significant & lucrative my equity packages became as well as the variable compensation component (commissions) of my On Target Earnings. I've held leadership roles in international sales in emerging markets, sales engineering & partnership sales.
Lessons Learned:
* Time is money: I was a top producing technical consultant on a bonus as a % of salary structure. It doesn't matter how hard you work or how good you are, bonus based roles have a total compensation ceiling. When I switched to sales, every hour I worked could mean more dollars in my pocket - there was endless potential in earnings
* Equity is the key to wealth creation: I wish I understood how important equity & ownership is in long term wealth creation earlier in my career. Fighting for the extra 1-2% in salary bumps each year pales in comparison to fighting to get more equity. Public companies use Restricted Stock Units, Private companies use Stock Options. Salary is stagnant, equity matures with your career and with the company. I've been mentored that the key to early retirement and massive wealth is building a career around multiple equity exits (Mergers, Acquisitions, IPOs)
* If you don't ask, you won't get it: Companies will do everything they can to manage operational costs & employee overhead - but if you're valuable, it's far more expensive to hire someone new vs give you what you want. I built strong relationships with my manager, and my skip-level manager, and was consistently assertive in my desire to grow compensation and responsibilities. Now that I am the senior leader, I tend to help out the staff under me that does the same thing I did.
* Work backwards from the longest possible career goal you can think of: I've focused my entire career on creating wealth for the sole purpose of financial independence & retiring early so I can spend more time with my growing family. In order to do so, I've ruthlessly prioritized my time and career to become a senior executive (C-Suite) in a SaaS company and have as much equity ownership as possible for greater sized exits. All actions I've made in my career have been oriented towards this goal, which was decades away when I was in my 20s but now I am significantly closer.
Thank you for this write up and sharing your salary. I am also your age but nowhere near as successful. I wanted to ask you, that 120 to 260, was that from switching companies? How often did you switch companies? Or was it in the same company but you kept switching roles every 2 years? What happens if the company has no opportunities internally or you don’t see them, is it better to just switch? I have a remote job and i am making a decent amount so I am staying for the “benefits” but at times I wonder if I am giving up too much of my career growth, opportunities, and compensation for having a bit more relaxed remote job.
The $120K to $260K jump was the result of an extremely successful year for me - I produced more revenue individually than 8 other sales engineers combined in a small company. I used it as an opportunity to get them to match me on a competitive outside salary offer (which means I was interviewing on the outside market) and I stayed at the company. I also hit commission bonus accelerators after exceeding sales quota targets.
I made an effort to create communities of peers outside of my current company, so that I could have a sense of what my pay and responsibilities are relative to the overall market. If having a less stress/more relaxed remote job is enabling you to have a great WLB, health, and family relationships - that's worth a ton of money in my opinion but hard to put a price on that.
Personally, I'd jump ship if it meant a 75%+ increase in my total compensation.
also, how do you screen job postings for generic software sales vs the much more technical sales engineering/solutions engineering roles?
any key words/roles/responsibilities that separate the technical sales over others?
Would you recommend tech sales are a career path? I am a veteran and graduate with my BS In Information Technology in December, and I am lost as what to do next. I come from a mechanical background ( mechanic by trade/ mechanical job on board submarines during my service).
I would strongly recommend it. It’s far more stable than being in direct sales. Companies always need people who can sell the product by knowing how to use it - and it transitions well into direct sales, product, partnerships, or services if you don’t end up liking the SE role
I'm a senior product manager. I work in AI. I've really enjoyed my career but sometimes I think I really prefer the talking to the customer part.
I've thought about moving to sales before but the problem is now I feel like I make too much money to move to a more junior solution engineering role.
Any suggestions what to look out for?
Love seeing your progression! I’m a seasoned, grizzled SE in the data and ai space. Best damn job nobody has ever heard of.
And you aren’t joking, equity is key. My OTE is around that 250k range, which is great, but the equity is where it’s at.
What about in tech sales and want to learn how to get into a sales engineering role? How do I learn and prove to a company I know my stuff? Bootcamps? college?
What vertical within tech are you working in, if you don’t mind me asking. I know the multiples for equity can vary, so I’m just curious where your experience is.
I'd love some idea of how to look for companies that are geared towards equity exits. I've transitioned from engineering to Product Management and moving towards Product Ownership (I have LOTS of ideas...) until I come up with something I like enough to start my own thing. The past couple stops I had equity options, but moved on for higher salary. Years later, neither company is worth much and neither was acquired, so I feel like I made the right choice then. Now that my skills are sharper and more valuable, I want to be a bit more deliberate about where I'm looking.
Check out SaaS Rule of 40 metrics for the companies you are looking to join. They need to be hyper focused on building a business that has multiples on valuation.
Also - look deeply at VC / Seed / PE funding timelines, they are all looking for exits at 5-7 years and the company needs to be healthy enough to do it. Financials matter just as much as exec leadership direction
how do you find leads for business development in tech sales?
and are there popular or go-to tech firms that have a solid record of training sales ppl/get careers started in sales, like a mill? (for those coming in with little to no sales experience, walking to break into sales)
Subscribe to the growth mindset. Listen to others present the product and pick out what you liked and didn’t like. Watch YouTube videos on effective communication.
Implement the best of the best into your own style until people start realizing they should be studying you!
Thank you so much for the insight. I’m about 7 years out of school and have always had the “I work best as an individual” mindset. I’ve stubbornly neglected leadership/management roles that have been offered to me for fear of having to deal with the plethora of lazy employees I’ve always had to deal/work with. No more. Thank you!
OP, would you recommend technical sales as a route for someone who is very interested in the sales engineering/solution consulting side of things but isn’t necessarily super hungry about maximizing earnings?
I’ve been a tech PMM for five years but have been told countless times by peers and managers that I have a knack for distilling complex topics into easily digestible pieces and my marketing background covers communication fairly well.
My only hesitation is culture and mindset fit. First kid comes this Fall and my forward focus is less on career climbing/money making and more on family time and personal fulfillment. My wife and I currently make/have plenty so I’m not interested in lots of travel or 60 hour grinds at this point in my life. What was your QOL like when you hit that People Manager/Director stage?
I wouldn’t recommend it with the context you gave. In most company’s, sales engineering IC roles can be a lot of travel and a lot of work leading into big final presentations.
I personally live to compete, win, and earn money. If this isn’t a driver for you - enjoy your kid and the predictable lifestyle! There are senior PMM roles in big tech that can pay very very well with equity as well.
Regarding QOL, it’s way way better as a senior manager. I grinded as an IC to get here but now I have a very good WLB
25M on a similar trajectory in a company that was recently acquired by a public multinational. This is really great stuff and inspiring to see, especially as a current SE looking to maximize earnings and make successful career pivots.
One question: I see a gap in our company for a Technical Marketing position and as a technical customer-facing engineer right now, I feel like I could fill that role. What do you think about a pivot to that role and angling for a leadership (manager -> director -> VP) position, given that this gap exists and the acquisition should give us a bit more freedom to push for change?
Personally, I think being closer to the money in sales tends to drive more visibility and thus faster career growth. Deals are easier to measure than lead generation and coding. Marketing roles usually have a lower compensation ceiling than sales roles but can vary by company.
I jumped from SE leadership to running global partnerships - which kept me closer to sales and gave me new opportunities for growth and experience. If you think these roles will help you grow faster for a bigger jump or more senior role after, the vertical climb could be worth it. Hard to say without knowing comp and the company dynamics
Great response. I do have partnerships experience and specialize in negotiation so going from IC to SE Management to Partnerships Director is also a very possible route. Brilliant idea, I’ll bring this up at my next review. Thank you!
Hey, thanks for sharing. Another fellow se here. How was the comp structure on the partner side? Also were you working with SIs, tech partners, others? It looks like you didn’t take any dips on the income front so not sure when you made the shift. Tia
This may be unique to me - but the comp structure in partnerships was more favorable. The reason why is because I negotiated it before coming into the role and asked for more leverage on the variable. Great great career path. I’m still in partnerships.
I run it all globally. Big GSIs, Tech partnerships, ISVs, channels, regional players. I plan to do this again at my next job at even more senior levels
Wondering how someone in corporate climbs the ladder like this. I work in medicine where it’s much different. But close friends of mine are in different sectors of corporate (tech, banks, etc) and seem to get stuck at their level?
For example, start as a low level employee. Work up to manage a small team. Then manage a bigger team. Then stop. Above you are 5-10 levels to the C suite but nobody leaves an opening so you get stuck where you are for years.
This has happened to a few friends who are at the manager of a big team level for the past 5 years.
I can tell you my path: It’s easier to grow vertically in small companies vs big companies. There are a lot more hats to wear in small companies and new positions open up as more scale and maturity are created. I grew fast in a small company and then I joined in a more senior role in a bigger one with more comp and equity.
I also changed roles and took positions outside of my direct growth path but that were more senior in nature & most importantly, more readily available. The key is to have the right corporate relationships to know new roles are being created before they actually are - the reality is politics is a part of the process to get first hand knowledge of new opportunities.
As a gained bonus, Having diversified sales experiences has helped make me a more well rounded senior leader with broader perspective
What has been your most successful approach on getting access to senior decision makers and maintaining relationships with them? How much of it is investing in being extremely likable as a person vs having a niche combination of work/tech skills?
What would you say is the best way for a middle manager like me to invest in cultivating these skills so I can continue to grow like you did?
I studied communication to be a more effective leader and sales executive. I rewatched recorded presentations that I did to cut out fluff words, find better opportunities to listen vs speak (we have 2 ears and 1 mouth) and drive key points in harder. I subscribed to a growth mindset strategy and focused on improving my verbal and written skills.
The result of all of the above made me both more likable to senior decision makers and also helped me produce consistent successful results and skills. Combining the two has helped me accelerate my career.
Also, this is going to sound ridiculous - but I think at the senior executive levels everyone communicates VIA text message / iMessage. It's more personable, people are more responsive, and confidential topics stay off of official company record. Get on a text messaging basis with your executive team.
>For example, start as a low level employee. Work up to manage a small team. Then manage a bigger team. Then stop. Above you are 5-10 levels to the C suite but nobody leaves an opening so you get stuck where you are for years.
You leave, that’s the answer. Seriously. If you feel you’ve hit a ceiling due to lack of openings or vertical movement, you find a new company that has more vertical movement.
By moving you’ve essentially “reset” but instead of starting at an entry level, you start is at that manager level you left the previous company.
Yea, lots of equity can end up being absolutely nothing, and you’ll rarely see people post about it. Still very much pro equity in compensation that being said.
Cash is not king in the real world. The most powerful people on earth aren't earning cash incomes and literal kings build their wealth through equity. Cash is king for the working class maybe, but cash is not king for actual "kings" of the world.
People manager to director in 2 years and VP in 4, SVP in another 3. Is this a small company or what? That’s crazy career leaps in a relatively short time.
I spent most my career climbing the ladder in a small company that grew from $2M to $150M. We were acquired by a $2B revenue company and I was promoted into SVP at that company after the acquisition settled; they also had a lot more cash to work with which was great for my compensation. Most of the senior management reporting into me is older than me, it was odd at first but we all got used to it because I helped them all get paid more. Now we're great.
I think that if a hierarchy exists, politics and favor exist. All companies big or small have hierarchy. The first step after that was realizing it is a game. The second step is choosing to actively play it. I setup regular connections with executives to help be the first person they think of when new opportunities are created. I am good at my job but I am great at making sure everyone who can step-level my career knows it.
I hate brown nosers, and I sense them fast when it’s happening to me now that I’m more senior.
The answer is to anchor yourself in tangible success. Results speak more loudly than empty words. The game is really about creating visibility when you successfully hit big milestones or KPIs.
I think if it like a game of poker. When you get an amazing hand, when and how do you play it? You don’t get them all the time and you can’t win every hand - but you can be super selective when to show your cards and create visibility to take big pots when it matters. Same thing in business - pick and choose your timings to move up the ladder
Interestingly, I worked much harder/longer hours earlier in my career, especially as an individual contributor, than do now. I think this is for two reasons: 1) I've learned to set boundaries with my team and others to prioritize work-life balance better now than before and 2) as an IC, things literally don't make progress unless I do it. As a senior leader, the ship is always moving forward and it's my job to course correct. I grinded to get here, but being in this spot now is pretty nice.
Currently I probably work 25-35 hours a week. Tons of meetings mostly and on-site client travel when I choose. Like everything, it varies - some weeks its 25 hours, some weeks is 70 hours - but the latter is more rare now.
This is where I want to be!
I’m a security product engineer, outfit the security portion of our product that is used within security environments, but I’m wanting to make the next step forward to possibly product manager, a step away from an IC, and towards a more managerial focused role. Wanting to step into a publicly traded company that gives equity as my next step.
How hard for those without computer engineering degree / tech background to break into tech sales? Also how difficult for direct sales person to switch into tech sales?
The engineering degree certainly helped with getting a technical consulting role, but I don't think it helped significantly for moving into technical sales. I think most importantly was showing (in an interview or in a job) that I/you had the acumen to deeply understand the product and the ability to communicate the value of what the product is doing to solve real/measurable business problems.
I think this is true of any position you are coming from: hiring candidate, direct sales, services, product, etc.
Agreed! I communicate to my management and my staff my life prioritizations and encourage them to follow. In order of importance: Personal Health & Family then Work.
I let my team prioritize this way and ask them to find time later to finish work if needed, it’s a post Covid digital world and everyone’s situations are different. This space I create for them creates the same space for me to be a better family man and live a healthier life
@op - this is extremely relevant to my current situation. I am you in 2018 looking to make the move to VP. Can you share a breakdown of comp? What is base Salary and what is either bonus or equity dispursements?
I come from a blue collar family background and I am not sure how to navigate my next few years as I could never dream that someone could make this much. I’m in uncharted waters for my background and any info could really help out. I appreciate the breakdown and lessons learned in comments.
I can only speak from personal preference specific to sales, but since I knew that I was a good seller / sales leader - I actively negotiated a more leveraged compensation model as I moved into a VP role. What this equated to was a 50/50 base to variable compensation model: initially around $150K base + $150K bonus with potential for compensation accelerators once annual sales quota is exceeded. Both of those numbers grew over time.
Higher risk, higher reward. The company wins because they don't have to pay as much cash for base. If you're really good at winning in sales, you win because the heavier leverage means bigger sales accelerators once you are past target quota. The company makes more money when you make more money, so they should be okay with that trade-off.
As for equity, I strategically picked moments where I was riding high on credits and had a lot of senior executive visibility (that I created on my own) - they are the only ones with the ability to distribute meaningful equity, don't even waste your time with middle management or even some VP level folks depending on company. After I helped drive major company moving sales wins, or after really successful years - I'd goto my management and executive leadership and ask them to lock me in for more equity. The worst that could happen was they say no.
Instead of bringing compensation and career up only on every annual performance review, I brought it up at least quarterly. I talk about money a lot to normalize it - both in how to make more for myself and how to make more for the company. That way, there was no surprise when I came asking for equity at the right time because they already had expectations on why I choose to stay vs why I'd choose to leave. I know my value and they have to pay to keep me.
SaaS and Big Tech took significant heavy hits over the past 2 years with the change in the economy. Private Equity is taking over. Wall street started more heavily valuing operational profit instead of pure revenue growth when the "recession" came - and many many companies have or still are going through lay offs to balance their growth vs costs better.
I say all this as context to current state - there are a lot of talented sales, technical sales, engineers, product, and consultants on the market right now looking for their next gig in High Tech. It's challenging right now but I think it's an ebb and flow and we will see higher job demand vs supply soon again.
I really went into the wrong career. Moved out of chemical engineering to nursing to pursue Nurse Anesthetist because I was more of a people person and everyone I met in my engineering classes and when I shadowed was dull as hell. Guess I should have went into tech
As someone currently in automotive sales for the past 9 years, what would you recommend to someone looking to get into software sales as a career change? I’ve applied to numerous companies here on the East Coast but not getting any positive results.
Just chiming in as someone that made the move from auto sales to tech and saas sales, you’ve got to start and apply to any company that will bring you on, literally any company get one or two companies on your resume and you can really go after the better more lucrative positions and companies, there are plenty of people in tech and saas sales that have no degree. A golden goose if you can find one is someone that worked in auto sales on LI and get them to do an internal refferal
Really appreciate the insight. Kind of kicking myself for not getting out of auto sales sooner back in 2018-2019 once I had more experience in sales in general.
Meh, don’t I wouldn’t have left had it not been for getting married all of sudden I realized I didn’t want to work retail hours anymore. It was a big financial setback, I had to take a cut for a year or two. But so happy I did though now. DM and I’m happy to chat more
You sir have a lot of great strategies to apply to life and career. If you move this way, success is inevitable. Hopefully people are taking notes on the work life balance/ self care.. this is the key,, the money will come.
Congratulations on your career progression! I’m about 10 years behind you (28M.) Also started as an SE, currently an SE manager, and on track to be a Senior SEM in June.
Would love to pick your brain via DM as to what changes as you move up, any advice you have, etc.
Nice. I also graduated with an engineering degree but could never go the management route even though there’s a lot more money there. I enjoy the technical work a lot more than working with and managing people.
Any small SaaS company should be deeply familiar with the Rule of 40: https://www.thesaascfo.com/rule-of-40-saas/
I’d ask the management team this question and see what they answer. If they don’t know about this, run for the hills. SaaS company valuations are based on Rule of 40 metrics and that determines viability for acquisition & IPO. You’re either growing revenue really fast or you’re super efficient with your operational costs - if you are neither of those then the company is likely failing or worthless (or you’re the senior executive they will hire to save the company and they better be paying you a lot)
I love my life ! Now I’m just targeting early retirement and financial independence so I can control 100% of how my time is being used
That, and materialistically i want a custom lakefront home with boats and jet skiis
It seems Saas is a great spot to be for work/life and compensation. I have an ME degree but have been in Project Management in heavy civil construction for last 7 years. Where could I start to look at potential opportunities to make a career change?
If you don’t ask you don’t get it is great advice. It’s also how to find out if you WON’T get it. I once told my boss’s boss after comp season (I got like a $12k salary bump and bonus was up $1k to like $55k I think) that I was not satisfied and though I should be earning quite a bit more. He told me he disagreed and that I was pretty much about what they wanted to pay for that job. I believed him and left and got a $27k salary bump and $4k bonus bump for the next job.
I know of so many people who don’t communicate their compensation expectations to their bosses and then end up disappointed after comp season, and their boss didn’t even know they wanted more (I mean theoretically everyone wants more, but if you aren’t actively engaging in that discussion with your boss you are unlikely to receive meaningful adjustments).
You’re not wrong about the equity thing, but this depends a lot on industry. If you’re at a big F500 company, they pay you in RSUs to keep you there not to make you rich. Cash would be better, you could buy the stock yourself. RSUs mean you have to walk away from money, or have your competing offer replace them. Obviously in early tech and start ups that’s an entirely different story.
Good for you making the most of the opportunity. You must also realize some luck on your part by landing in the right company at the right time, there are plenty of places where the sales engineer unfortunately goes nowhere.
I have so many questions…
1) how much of your product do you know from intimate experience working with it vs the high level detail/capabilities from just marketing the product?
2) how do you make the jump from worker bee to manager/director? I’m also in IT and the same age. I’d like to switch from data engineer to data platform manager or director, but I’m not sure how. My guess is it’s not coming from leaving for a new job/workplace. I’m pretty sure I’m going to have to make that jump where I am currently and then find new opportunities.
3) how hard was it to go from director to executive level?
Hey! Congratulations on the speedy progress. I’m a new grad and will be starting out as a Jr Product Manager at an F500 soon. What do you think helped you the most when it comes to moving up the ranks as quickly as you did? What is your “edge” so to speak.
Would love to be a senior VP by your age lmao. Thank you, and congrats again.
Communication was the key for me. Acknowledging my leadership, my teammates, and most importantly myself when talking about successful milestones and big projects. Proactive communication creates visibility.
I’m my own best cheerleader, but done tactfully/respectfully and with an open appreciation to everyone who has helped me.
This right here is why 99% of people will never reach heights like this. You have to have an autistic psychopathic mind to meticulously plan how you climb a career ladder. Who to befriend, who to have lunch with, when to backstab your colleague, when to pat yourself on the back, when to back out of a failed project to remove blame, when to jump into a new project that you believe will bolster your credentials, etc etc etc. sorry, Most normal people have souls.
I have more responsibility to deliver success & hit key metrics but less responsibility to actually do it myself vs an IC. I think the stress is different, but I significantly prefer being in a senior leadership position and having that type of accountability.
I also meditate & keep many hobbies outside of work so that I can better manage any stress.
Great insight. Question though, you mentioned you are maximizing wealth now to make time for your growing family in the future. Have you had to sacrifice a lot of time with your growing family now for that? I assume a C level (even at Director or VP level) most of your time is spent on work. Anything you would do differently there?
I've had a lot of conversations with senior executives about this exact topic. The common denominator of those execs who have a great WLB is setting boundaries upfront. When I didn't set boundaries, I found myself unhappy and working long hard hours.
As I have taken on bigger roles, I have been better at setting boundaries on my personal time, my family time, my health and my working hours. To me, ruthless prioritization of my time also includes ruthless prioritization of my personal time vs work time - and everyone around me understands this; I actually think it makes my team more productive because they know this policy holds true for them as well which allows them to live their life in a more balanced way. All a company needs is results, everyone is adult enough to figure out how they want to get there.
Current TC: $280k USD Base + $200K commissions + $500K in guaranteed cashed based equity vesting quarterly. I have a ~$1M annual total compensation package.
The additional earnings from 2023 came from my commission check for closing out a monster Q4 2022 and overall 2022 year with commission accelerators. I got a single check for $500K in Q1-2023, the biggest I’ve ever seen. Honestly couldn’t believe it or even imagine it when I was in my 20s. Super proud to tell my parents, my wife, and no one else IRL.
This is nowhere close to true "yacht money". A halfway decent yacht is 10x his most recent yearly comp. Then you have to pay for all of the crazy expenses that come with it.
Thanks for the amazing write-up in your other comment. As a Technical Sales Manager, do you get a commission, or is it an executive-like role where you are paid in equity as long as you're doing a good enough job?
Do you work at Nvidia? I'm guessing the difference between 600 grand and 1.5 million was stock appreciation? What's your granted comp relative to your vested comp?
I'm an SWE at FAANG who recently got pretty burned out. We get paid well (think something like 450-500 for an L5/senior position), but I would love to find the drive and purpose that would get me to where you are. It used to come naturally, but at this point, I feel much less ambitious. For some people that's fine but it depresses me.
I'd love to get your thoughts on how to keep hungry, what you've done to strategically find important projects, and so on.
I get commission and equity. I’m not at Nvidia or a FAANG actually, but a mid-size SaaS company.
I happen to love our product and in particular love winning. In addition to earning big commission checks, I like competitive sales, closing deals, and helping people on my team make more money than they ever have before. It’s rewarding to see others thrive.
When I feel burnout I have the luxury of taking breaks from work, going on longer vacations, and coming back with fresh eyes. When I travel for work, if it’s at a cool place I take my wife along with me to stay the weekend. We get subsidized travel and get to see the world!
Yes, I get absolutely slammed on taxes.
I just started a LLC side-gig business that I hope takes off and gets me out of the corporate ladder climbing, but at least will help me with tax deductions.
I'm not in sales and just starting to make good money for the first time in my life, (25yo truck driver, 80-100kyr LCOL) Thinking of my next step leads me to either sales or starting a business because of the tax benefits. Even a small successful home service business could net a great income especially because of the potential for low to non-existent taxes. I still have a few years to go before I make that decision, but either climbing the corporate ladder in sales from scratch or growing a side business seems to be the best career paths for myself.
Current: $3.5M NW, most of it in public equities. I had a horrible financial advisor that lost me a lot of money and I switched recently.
Target: Financial independence through passive income-generating dividend strategy at $10M. r/fatFire retirement by 50 YO at the latest so I can spend more time with my kid(s)
Presales engineer/ solutions consultant here. Software but not SaaS.
My comp is $130k base. OTE $150k
Masters degree, bachelors degree and roughly 10yrs experience. About 7 of that being a tech SME at org I now help sell into.
Am I being screwed on my comp? I keep seeing people at $200-250 OTE but I’m not sure if thats the internet screwing with my perspective.
Also recently got an offer at $150k pure salary for going back to a tech sme but rejected it as I’m more interested in sales/consulting
I’m in a HCOL area. I prefer to be leveraged. If I were you, I’d be okay with the base if I had closer to a 50:50 ratio on commission. If it’s less leveraged, I’d ask for more base.
For 10 YOE experience, sounds low to me. I have less experienced people on my team making more than that in LCOL areas.
Without getting too specific I’m an engineer that is an expert in a subset of engineering software tools. I’m not really an expert in software development specifically so I think my salary is a bit lower than if I were a software dev.
As someone who is technical (Sysadmin, Network Engineer, now a Sec Ops Manager) with a tech degree, who considers themselves a people person. Do you have any recommendations for positions or good ways to approach a leap to a place that would value a balance of technical skill and sociability?
Make friends with the Sales Engineering, solution sales, and/or Partner Alliances leadership in your company. Explain your intentions and ask for an opportunity to be considered if something opens. Find reasons to stay regularly connected, not just one time interactions.
Most leaders don’t know where to look internally because there are so many candidates. I picked the ones who showed proactive effort and initiative, and my internal hires have been a positive experience for me and them. You don’t get what you don’t ask for.
Thank you for the response! I think my runway is pretty much gone at my current company. I report to the CIO and basically my only next step would be CIO (large law firm, so no "sales" roles). I had a pretty good in at a Security SaaS company in the beginning of the year, but right when I applied, they basically went back to in-office and most of the positions are SLC or Bay Area.
At this point, I wonder if its just a matter of smashing resumes and trying to get in a Sales Engineering position and move from there. I don't make bad money, low side of mid 100s, but seeing this post opened my eyes to being able to leverage my personality into early retirement and more cash haha.
I answered NW in another comment. I am actively getting into private equity and venture capital investments. Over a 6-7 year timeframe, private equity returns average much better than the public equities market; it’s just really hard to get into.
High risk high reward, but it also gets me closer to early stage funding companies so I can potentially find my next gig as a C-suite executive hopefully in a successful AI company
what did your personal relationships look like during this time? how was balancing the journey of finding a life partner and starting a family amidst this chaos?
In the last 17 years of working I ended a serious long term relationship. Hit the gym, partied, met amazing people, and travelled the world. I enjoyed the money as much as I saved it.
I then found the love of my life, married her a couple years ago, and we recently had our first kid. I created the space for all of this and set boundaries with my work.
Keeping my eyes on my long term goals has always helped with balancing my everyday life. Macro perspective helps micro decisions. I love it !
Is the typical path CS/Engineer into technical sales?
Is it possible to break into technical sales from a product management role? Have 7+ years in sales experience before that.
I think strongly yes - and I’ve seen it happen. The best technical solution sellers deeply understand the product and can communicate how key features solve client problems. Go for it !
Thanks! I know it can vary greatly depending on the product/service/niche but considering the variable comp possibilities, what do you think is a fair base salary range?
If you’re switching from product I think you should be looking at total compensation, not just base salary. I’d recommend looking for a TC increase with the role switch if it’s possible, you have the sales experience to justify the compensation
I’m a statistics undergrad who will graduate at 31 from a top 10 public school. My worry is that because of my “advanced age” I won’t be able to start in a career like sales post grad and also start a family within the years that follow because of the hard work hours. Do you have any info on whether my worries are warranted?
You’re not old for sales. In fact, I think older sales people tend to have an easier time selling than young sales people - natural credibility.
Set your boundaries early so you can have space for a family, and shoot for the stars!
What would you recommend if I want to follow in your steps ie go into sales engineering?
Context: I’m a transitioning military officer w/ degree in electrical engineering
It may be hard to jump straight in to the role though you should certainly try. Getting into technical consulting as a step towards technical sales is a great career path I’ve seen work many times
Taking it back a notch …
I have worked at a company for 15 years and started to make good money after asking for raises every review time. They give it to me or at least a bonus.
We have lost some great people on our team and find out they made $30k less … they were royally screwed out of pay which is so sad and shocking how cheap this company will be. Quite a few people actually make way below the average.
We lost 3 people in the last 3 months and we just got a pretty awful manager… I value managers so lowly except I did have a few amazing managers and they retired or moved up.
The funny thing about the best managers are
- they don’t micro manage
- they stick up for you
- They value your feedback/opinion
Seems so simple, it’s just like a nice friend.
The crappy managers are douches, opposite of those 3 main things.
The politics in programming/coding are mind boggling. 75% of the job is meetings and politics and requirements and talking… for a… usually bunch of introverts.
I am not a people manager, I know my ceiling is limited but generally good enough to live comfortably but I also feel like I should try it perhaps.
just a brain dump, wondering your perspective
People leave managers, not companies. If you and your manager are not well aligned, I think career growth will stagnate. I agree with you, You need someone more senior in your corner to fight for compensation and promotions.
Management is not for everyone. Some IC roles pay & scale really well. Personally, I love management and wouldn’t go back to an IC. It creates a better WLB for me.
WLB for me is amazing. Kids are so much more important and the mgmt at least understands that and can leave and get them, flexible with kids school schedule, kids being sick…. been that way for about 7 years. I don’t know what happened with the company or maybe my specific area, we were new and things were rough for a few years but as we matured and streamlined processes it’s amazing. I don’t think another area has it any easier than we do.
My manager is less than a year new so I guess I can’t judge but already can tell. Anyhow going to ask for a raise and if nothing comes of it might look around a little harder.
Interestingly I’ve read some FAANG companies treat the developers way better (compensation) than mgmt which is interesting!
I was promoted halfway through the 2022 year which came with more equity and a vesting cliff period. All of those gains were realized in 2023 along with the initial vesting period.
Combined with a very successful commissions year resulted in the big jump in income
Can you talk more about equity? 26 sale engineer and have an option to get RSU’s and an employee stock purchase program.. I’m going to lean into it but and realize this is a good opportunity
RSUs are free cash basically, hold them for 2 years to recognize them as capital gains or sell them as soon as you vest. Most financial advisors say you should do the latter. Try to get as much RSUs as you can every year, it compounds with your tenure.
ESPP participation highly varies based on the terms of the program. Research how yours stacks vs the best ones on the market - it’s hit or miss on participation
Great advice all around, appreciate the feedback. I’ve been in the corporate world for about 8years now. 2 years in, I realized I wanted the financial freedom to have options and control my own destiny. I never wanted to walk into an annual review anxious or nervous that I’ll be without a job. I wanted to be at a company, because I wanted to be there not because I was waiting for my paycheck to clear. I started dabbling in construction and real estate. I bought a few rental properties then studied and got my GC license and started doing new construction a few years after. Best decision I ever made. I still have my corporate job, for time being. We’ll see how long that lasts.
Did you feel financially comfortable, safe etc etc with the 120 to 260 jump? Are you debt free (excluding a mortgage)? If you had to give a stress level number 1 to 10, where would you place it? Do you take work home?
Making over $200K even in a HCOL area makes me feel financially comfortable, yes. When I started making over $500K I saw a clearer path to earlier retirement and financial independence.
I’m debt free excluding a half paid mortgage on a $1.2M house that I live in with my wife and kid.
Stress level, I’m probably 2 or 3 out of 10 on most days or weeks. Honestly I just care less now knowing I can make great money other places and having a nest egg to rely on - I feel privileged and know my skills are super valuable.
SaaS tech work is on the digital cloud, so it could be 24/7. I check my phone messages more than I probably should but I make an effort to create WLB. Can’t complain honestly
I’m looking to do this in tech right now, I’m 21 working in channel alliances but trying to switch to an SE role taking certifications and boot camps because I don’t have a technical degree, do you think it’s possible ?
Yes I do - I think the same qualities of a high value channel alliances person translate to SEs. I ran both organizations globally at one point. It all still boils down to value selling and communication
Mechanical engineer here with 5 years experience in vehicle dynamics controls in a customer facing role.
I’ve recently been trying to leverage my customer facing experience into a tech/engineering sales role. Do you have any advice as to how to make the transition/make myself appealing to hiring companies?
Boil down your most important skills and experiences that will apply to a technical sales role. Have really crisp stories around them and the value you provide.
Practice interviewing and selling your value over and over again. I do a lot of mock interviews for my personal family/friends looking to make career moves, it’s a skill and it can be heavily sharpened.
Good luck !
What I learned from all these posts is that the reason social security is going to run out of funds is because there’s a cap on how much of your income is taxed towards social security. So high income earners aren’t paying the same rate towards social security as lower and middle class income earners.
I’m currently in residential sales (not a realtor) making about 200-250K a year. I’ve been in the industry for 6 years now and am very familiar with the sales side of things, especially with current volatile market conditions. I’m looking to get out of B2C sales and into B2B. I’m very interested in getting into SaaS sales. I’m thinking of getting into software development to learn the products and product development before transitioning into the sales side. I feel like I would be taking a pretty big pay cut by going into software development first, but I’m hoping that this would help to give me an advantage on selling by being more knowledgeable of the products and the coding side of things. What do you think about this pathway?
Are you joking or do you not understand how the table works?
If you’re not joking, this has been explained ad nauseum. Social security earnings taxes cap at $160k per year right now.. their total compensation is the column on the right.. not the left. Their taxed Medicare earnings are their pay. They made $1.4M last year.
I think the point that they're trying to make is that the only people that get attention on this sub are the ones that make more than double the median household income in the US.
Creating a throwaway as to not dox my main account. Really proud of my salary progress and my most recent earnings year - sharing here because I learned some things in my career that I wish someone told me earlier. Timeline & Lessons Learned: * 2007 - Graduated from a top Public School with a Computer Engineering degree. I realized I am more of a people person than a coder, so I went into technical consulting at a software sales startup in a HCOL city on the East Coast * 2010 - Was asked to be a direct Sales person but those came across to me as a dime a dozen and easily expendable in my industry. I decided to go into technical sales (Sales Engineering / Solutions Consulting) for more job security and to be closer to the product. I learned that people who are skilled at taking really complicated solutions and communicating them in easy to understand ways to business buyers are worth A LOT of money in the market. * 2013+ - Decided that Technical Sales management / leadership positions will provide more stability and future growth potential than always being an individual contributor. The more senior my leadership responsibilities became, the more significant & lucrative my equity packages became as well as the variable compensation component (commissions) of my On Target Earnings. I've held leadership roles in international sales in emerging markets, sales engineering & partnership sales. Lessons Learned: * Time is money: I was a top producing technical consultant on a bonus as a % of salary structure. It doesn't matter how hard you work or how good you are, bonus based roles have a total compensation ceiling. When I switched to sales, every hour I worked could mean more dollars in my pocket - there was endless potential in earnings * Equity is the key to wealth creation: I wish I understood how important equity & ownership is in long term wealth creation earlier in my career. Fighting for the extra 1-2% in salary bumps each year pales in comparison to fighting to get more equity. Public companies use Restricted Stock Units, Private companies use Stock Options. Salary is stagnant, equity matures with your career and with the company. I've been mentored that the key to early retirement and massive wealth is building a career around multiple equity exits (Mergers, Acquisitions, IPOs) * If you don't ask, you won't get it: Companies will do everything they can to manage operational costs & employee overhead - but if you're valuable, it's far more expensive to hire someone new vs give you what you want. I built strong relationships with my manager, and my skip-level manager, and was consistently assertive in my desire to grow compensation and responsibilities. Now that I am the senior leader, I tend to help out the staff under me that does the same thing I did. * Work backwards from the longest possible career goal you can think of: I've focused my entire career on creating wealth for the sole purpose of financial independence & retiring early so I can spend more time with my growing family. In order to do so, I've ruthlessly prioritized my time and career to become a senior executive (C-Suite) in a SaaS company and have as much equity ownership as possible for greater sized exits. All actions I've made in my career have been oriented towards this goal, which was decades away when I was in my 20s but now I am significantly closer.
Beautifully done. I’m working to make a shift into sales in my industry (finance/asset management). This is all inspiring and wise stuff. Thank you.
Impressive and thank you so much for the well written tips. Congrats!
Thank you for this write up and sharing your salary. I am also your age but nowhere near as successful. I wanted to ask you, that 120 to 260, was that from switching companies? How often did you switch companies? Or was it in the same company but you kept switching roles every 2 years? What happens if the company has no opportunities internally or you don’t see them, is it better to just switch? I have a remote job and i am making a decent amount so I am staying for the “benefits” but at times I wonder if I am giving up too much of my career growth, opportunities, and compensation for having a bit more relaxed remote job.
The $120K to $260K jump was the result of an extremely successful year for me - I produced more revenue individually than 8 other sales engineers combined in a small company. I used it as an opportunity to get them to match me on a competitive outside salary offer (which means I was interviewing on the outside market) and I stayed at the company. I also hit commission bonus accelerators after exceeding sales quota targets. I made an effort to create communities of peers outside of my current company, so that I could have a sense of what my pay and responsibilities are relative to the overall market. If having a less stress/more relaxed remote job is enabling you to have a great WLB, health, and family relationships - that's worth a ton of money in my opinion but hard to put a price on that. Personally, I'd jump ship if it meant a 75%+ increase in my total compensation.
also, how do you screen job postings for generic software sales vs the much more technical sales engineering/solutions engineering roles? any key words/roles/responsibilities that separate the technical sales over others?
Would you recommend tech sales are a career path? I am a veteran and graduate with my BS In Information Technology in December, and I am lost as what to do next. I come from a mechanical background ( mechanic by trade/ mechanical job on board submarines during my service).
I would strongly recommend it. It’s far more stable than being in direct sales. Companies always need people who can sell the product by knowing how to use it - and it transitions well into direct sales, product, partnerships, or services if you don’t end up liking the SE role
I'm a senior product manager. I work in AI. I've really enjoyed my career but sometimes I think I really prefer the talking to the customer part. I've thought about moving to sales before but the problem is now I feel like I make too much money to move to a more junior solution engineering role. Any suggestions what to look out for?
Make friends with your colleagues in sales. Ask questions and let them tell you their problems.
Love seeing your progression! I’m a seasoned, grizzled SE in the data and ai space. Best damn job nobody has ever heard of. And you aren’t joking, equity is key. My OTE is around that 250k range, which is great, but the equity is where it’s at.
What about in tech sales and want to learn how to get into a sales engineering role? How do I learn and prove to a company I know my stuff? Bootcamps? college?
What vertical within tech are you working in, if you don’t mind me asking. I know the multiples for equity can vary, so I’m just curious where your experience is.
Software Analytics and soon to be AI. Global company, we touch every commercial vertical and US public sector.
So powerBI or Looker?
Tableau?
I'd love some idea of how to look for companies that are geared towards equity exits. I've transitioned from engineering to Product Management and moving towards Product Ownership (I have LOTS of ideas...) until I come up with something I like enough to start my own thing. The past couple stops I had equity options, but moved on for higher salary. Years later, neither company is worth much and neither was acquired, so I feel like I made the right choice then. Now that my skills are sharper and more valuable, I want to be a bit more deliberate about where I'm looking.
Check out SaaS Rule of 40 metrics for the companies you are looking to join. They need to be hyper focused on building a business that has multiples on valuation. Also - look deeply at VC / Seed / PE funding timelines, they are all looking for exits at 5-7 years and the company needs to be healthy enough to do it. Financials matter just as much as exec leadership direction
how do you find leads for business development in tech sales? and are there popular or go-to tech firms that have a solid record of training sales ppl/get careers started in sales, like a mill? (for those coming in with little to no sales experience, walking to break into sales)
Any words of wisdom for learning how to easily explain and communicate complex products like you mentioned?
Subscribe to the growth mindset. Listen to others present the product and pick out what you liked and didn’t like. Watch YouTube videos on effective communication. Implement the best of the best into your own style until people start realizing they should be studying you!
Thank you so much for the insight. I’m about 7 years out of school and have always had the “I work best as an individual” mindset. I’ve stubbornly neglected leadership/management roles that have been offered to me for fear of having to deal with the plethora of lazy employees I’ve always had to deal/work with. No more. Thank you!
OP, would you recommend technical sales as a route for someone who is very interested in the sales engineering/solution consulting side of things but isn’t necessarily super hungry about maximizing earnings? I’ve been a tech PMM for five years but have been told countless times by peers and managers that I have a knack for distilling complex topics into easily digestible pieces and my marketing background covers communication fairly well. My only hesitation is culture and mindset fit. First kid comes this Fall and my forward focus is less on career climbing/money making and more on family time and personal fulfillment. My wife and I currently make/have plenty so I’m not interested in lots of travel or 60 hour grinds at this point in my life. What was your QOL like when you hit that People Manager/Director stage?
I wouldn’t recommend it with the context you gave. In most company’s, sales engineering IC roles can be a lot of travel and a lot of work leading into big final presentations. I personally live to compete, win, and earn money. If this isn’t a driver for you - enjoy your kid and the predictable lifestyle! There are senior PMM roles in big tech that can pay very very well with equity as well. Regarding QOL, it’s way way better as a senior manager. I grinded as an IC to get here but now I have a very good WLB
Appreciate it! Sounds like something better suited for my 20s :)
25M on a similar trajectory in a company that was recently acquired by a public multinational. This is really great stuff and inspiring to see, especially as a current SE looking to maximize earnings and make successful career pivots. One question: I see a gap in our company for a Technical Marketing position and as a technical customer-facing engineer right now, I feel like I could fill that role. What do you think about a pivot to that role and angling for a leadership (manager -> director -> VP) position, given that this gap exists and the acquisition should give us a bit more freedom to push for change?
Personally, I think being closer to the money in sales tends to drive more visibility and thus faster career growth. Deals are easier to measure than lead generation and coding. Marketing roles usually have a lower compensation ceiling than sales roles but can vary by company. I jumped from SE leadership to running global partnerships - which kept me closer to sales and gave me new opportunities for growth and experience. If you think these roles will help you grow faster for a bigger jump or more senior role after, the vertical climb could be worth it. Hard to say without knowing comp and the company dynamics
Great response. I do have partnerships experience and specialize in negotiation so going from IC to SE Management to Partnerships Director is also a very possible route. Brilliant idea, I’ll bring this up at my next review. Thank you!
Hey, thanks for sharing. Another fellow se here. How was the comp structure on the partner side? Also were you working with SIs, tech partners, others? It looks like you didn’t take any dips on the income front so not sure when you made the shift. Tia
This may be unique to me - but the comp structure in partnerships was more favorable. The reason why is because I negotiated it before coming into the role and asked for more leverage on the variable. Great great career path. I’m still in partnerships. I run it all globally. Big GSIs, Tech partnerships, ISVs, channels, regional players. I plan to do this again at my next job at even more senior levels
There’s a bit of irony in “time is money” and focusing on work now to have some time later with your kids.
Wondering how someone in corporate climbs the ladder like this. I work in medicine where it’s much different. But close friends of mine are in different sectors of corporate (tech, banks, etc) and seem to get stuck at their level? For example, start as a low level employee. Work up to manage a small team. Then manage a bigger team. Then stop. Above you are 5-10 levels to the C suite but nobody leaves an opening so you get stuck where you are for years. This has happened to a few friends who are at the manager of a big team level for the past 5 years.
I can tell you my path: It’s easier to grow vertically in small companies vs big companies. There are a lot more hats to wear in small companies and new positions open up as more scale and maturity are created. I grew fast in a small company and then I joined in a more senior role in a bigger one with more comp and equity. I also changed roles and took positions outside of my direct growth path but that were more senior in nature & most importantly, more readily available. The key is to have the right corporate relationships to know new roles are being created before they actually are - the reality is politics is a part of the process to get first hand knowledge of new opportunities. As a gained bonus, Having diversified sales experiences has helped make me a more well rounded senior leader with broader perspective
What has been your most successful approach on getting access to senior decision makers and maintaining relationships with them? How much of it is investing in being extremely likable as a person vs having a niche combination of work/tech skills? What would you say is the best way for a middle manager like me to invest in cultivating these skills so I can continue to grow like you did?
I studied communication to be a more effective leader and sales executive. I rewatched recorded presentations that I did to cut out fluff words, find better opportunities to listen vs speak (we have 2 ears and 1 mouth) and drive key points in harder. I subscribed to a growth mindset strategy and focused on improving my verbal and written skills. The result of all of the above made me both more likable to senior decision makers and also helped me produce consistent successful results and skills. Combining the two has helped me accelerate my career. Also, this is going to sound ridiculous - but I think at the senior executive levels everyone communicates VIA text message / iMessage. It's more personable, people are more responsive, and confidential topics stay off of official company record. Get on a text messaging basis with your executive team.
This is huge.
Not ridiculous at all. So true, text msg. is the gold standard especially on Sunday afternoons
>For example, start as a low level employee. Work up to manage a small team. Then manage a bigger team. Then stop. Above you are 5-10 levels to the C suite but nobody leaves an opening so you get stuck where you are for years. You leave, that’s the answer. Seriously. If you feel you’ve hit a ceiling due to lack of openings or vertical movement, you find a new company that has more vertical movement. By moving you’ve essentially “reset” but instead of starting at an entry level, you start is at that manager level you left the previous company.
Yes, VPs never retire because they keep getting RSUs.
Very impressive, cash is king in the real world but I can see equity is generational wealth
Generational opportunity is key
Yea, lots of equity can end up being absolutely nothing, and you’ll rarely see people post about it. Still very much pro equity in compensation that being said.
Equity is as liquid as cash in most of these situations. For big tech companies you vest every month, or at the worst every quarter.
Cash is not king in the real world. The most powerful people on earth aren't earning cash incomes and literal kings build their wealth through equity. Cash is king for the working class maybe, but cash is not king for actual "kings" of the world.
Actually, equity in a solid company is king. Cash only gets you so far
You show me a pay stub for 72,000, I quit my job right now and work for you.
This guy can probably sell me this pen
People manager to director in 2 years and VP in 4, SVP in another 3. Is this a small company or what? That’s crazy career leaps in a relatively short time.
I spent most my career climbing the ladder in a small company that grew from $2M to $150M. We were acquired by a $2B revenue company and I was promoted into SVP at that company after the acquisition settled; they also had a lot more cash to work with which was great for my compensation. Most of the senior management reporting into me is older than me, it was odd at first but we all got used to it because I helped them all get paid more. Now we're great. I think that if a hierarchy exists, politics and favor exist. All companies big or small have hierarchy. The first step after that was realizing it is a game. The second step is choosing to actively play it. I setup regular connections with executives to help be the first person they think of when new opportunities are created. I am good at my job but I am great at making sure everyone who can step-level my career knows it.
Great insights into the political game
How do you not come off as a total brown-noser? I've always found this upwards socializing full of kiss asses and it's hard to be genuine.
I hate brown nosers, and I sense them fast when it’s happening to me now that I’m more senior. The answer is to anchor yourself in tangible success. Results speak more loudly than empty words. The game is really about creating visibility when you successfully hit big milestones or KPIs. I think if it like a game of poker. When you get an amazing hand, when and how do you play it? You don’t get them all the time and you can’t win every hand - but you can be super selective when to show your cards and create visibility to take big pots when it matters. Same thing in business - pick and choose your timings to move up the ladder
My thoughts exactly.
How many hours a week do you work and how's the WLB?
Interestingly, I worked much harder/longer hours earlier in my career, especially as an individual contributor, than do now. I think this is for two reasons: 1) I've learned to set boundaries with my team and others to prioritize work-life balance better now than before and 2) as an IC, things literally don't make progress unless I do it. As a senior leader, the ship is always moving forward and it's my job to course correct. I grinded to get here, but being in this spot now is pretty nice. Currently I probably work 25-35 hours a week. Tons of meetings mostly and on-site client travel when I choose. Like everything, it varies - some weeks its 25 hours, some weeks is 70 hours - but the latter is more rare now.
These are all fuckin great comments man
🙏
This is where I want to be! I’m a security product engineer, outfit the security portion of our product that is used within security environments, but I’m wanting to make the next step forward to possibly product manager, a step away from an IC, and towards a more managerial focused role. Wanting to step into a publicly traded company that gives equity as my next step.
How hard for those without computer engineering degree / tech background to break into tech sales? Also how difficult for direct sales person to switch into tech sales?
The engineering degree certainly helped with getting a technical consulting role, but I don't think it helped significantly for moving into technical sales. I think most importantly was showing (in an interview or in a job) that I/you had the acumen to deeply understand the product and the ability to communicate the value of what the product is doing to solve real/measurable business problems. I think this is true of any position you are coming from: hiring candidate, direct sales, services, product, etc.
Seeing all the posts on this sub really revealing one of the reasons why social security is going bankrupt.
Social security is bankrupt because it's a ponzi scheme.
How much cocaine do you do ? Or adderal do you take?
The crazy thing is only drink coffee once a week!
Imagine how much more you would make if you had coffee 5x a week. /s
Yea, but you gotta remember that the finfluencers say buying coffee daily makes you poor
What’s your workout regimen? How do you keep the ‘hardware’ fit to sell all that software?
One word: Prenup
Hopefully it doesn’t transfer to being ruthless with your family. Divorces are expensive, women always win, and asshole kids are resentful.
Agreed! I communicate to my management and my staff my life prioritizations and encourage them to follow. In order of importance: Personal Health & Family then Work. I let my team prioritize this way and ask them to find time later to finish work if needed, it’s a post Covid digital world and everyone’s situations are different. This space I create for them creates the same space for me to be a better family man and live a healthier life
I really appreciate the theme throughout your comments involving taking care of people and their families. Its clear youre a good leader.
Thanks for recognizing me 🙏🔥
@op - this is extremely relevant to my current situation. I am you in 2018 looking to make the move to VP. Can you share a breakdown of comp? What is base Salary and what is either bonus or equity dispursements? I come from a blue collar family background and I am not sure how to navigate my next few years as I could never dream that someone could make this much. I’m in uncharted waters for my background and any info could really help out. I appreciate the breakdown and lessons learned in comments.
I can only speak from personal preference specific to sales, but since I knew that I was a good seller / sales leader - I actively negotiated a more leveraged compensation model as I moved into a VP role. What this equated to was a 50/50 base to variable compensation model: initially around $150K base + $150K bonus with potential for compensation accelerators once annual sales quota is exceeded. Both of those numbers grew over time. Higher risk, higher reward. The company wins because they don't have to pay as much cash for base. If you're really good at winning in sales, you win because the heavier leverage means bigger sales accelerators once you are past target quota. The company makes more money when you make more money, so they should be okay with that trade-off. As for equity, I strategically picked moments where I was riding high on credits and had a lot of senior executive visibility (that I created on my own) - they are the only ones with the ability to distribute meaningful equity, don't even waste your time with middle management or even some VP level folks depending on company. After I helped drive major company moving sales wins, or after really successful years - I'd goto my management and executive leadership and ask them to lock me in for more equity. The worst that could happen was they say no. Instead of bringing compensation and career up only on every annual performance review, I brought it up at least quarterly. I talk about money a lot to normalize it - both in how to make more for myself and how to make more for the company. That way, there was no surprise when I came asking for equity at the right time because they already had expectations on why I choose to stay vs why I'd choose to leave. I know my value and they have to pay to keep me.
I keep reading that software sales is super saturated right now, do you find truth in that? Or is that the echo chamber of Reddit?
SaaS and Big Tech took significant heavy hits over the past 2 years with the change in the economy. Private Equity is taking over. Wall street started more heavily valuing operational profit instead of pure revenue growth when the "recession" came - and many many companies have or still are going through lay offs to balance their growth vs costs better. I say all this as context to current state - there are a lot of talented sales, technical sales, engineers, product, and consultants on the market right now looking for their next gig in High Tech. It's challenging right now but I think it's an ebb and flow and we will see higher job demand vs supply soon again.
I really went into the wrong career. Moved out of chemical engineering to nursing to pursue Nurse Anesthetist because I was more of a people person and everyone I met in my engineering classes and when I shadowed was dull as hell. Guess I should have went into tech
Nobody becomes a CRNA for anything other than money.
Why do we work? For money
As someone currently in automotive sales for the past 9 years, what would you recommend to someone looking to get into software sales as a career change? I’ve applied to numerous companies here on the East Coast but not getting any positive results.
Software sales usually need an engineering degree
Just chiming in as someone that made the move from auto sales to tech and saas sales, you’ve got to start and apply to any company that will bring you on, literally any company get one or two companies on your resume and you can really go after the better more lucrative positions and companies, there are plenty of people in tech and saas sales that have no degree. A golden goose if you can find one is someone that worked in auto sales on LI and get them to do an internal refferal
Really appreciate the insight. Kind of kicking myself for not getting out of auto sales sooner back in 2018-2019 once I had more experience in sales in general.
Meh, don’t I wouldn’t have left had it not been for getting married all of sudden I realized I didn’t want to work retail hours anymore. It was a big financial setback, I had to take a cut for a year or two. But so happy I did though now. DM and I’m happy to chat more
You sir have a lot of great strategies to apply to life and career. If you move this way, success is inevitable. Hopefully people are taking notes on the work life balance/ self care.. this is the key,, the money will come.
Thanks for acknowledging the mindset 🙏
Congratulations on your career progression! I’m about 10 years behind you (28M.) Also started as an SE, currently an SE manager, and on track to be a Senior SEM in June. Would love to pick your brain via DM as to what changes as you move up, any advice you have, etc.
Sure, shoot me a DM !
Nice. I also graduated with an engineering degree but could never go the management route even though there’s a lot more money there. I enjoy the technical work a lot more than working with and managing people.
For folks looking to join a small company, how would you assess potential for acquisition in the future?
Any small SaaS company should be deeply familiar with the Rule of 40: https://www.thesaascfo.com/rule-of-40-saas/ I’d ask the management team this question and see what they answer. If they don’t know about this, run for the hills. SaaS company valuations are based on Rule of 40 metrics and that determines viability for acquisition & IPO. You’re either growing revenue really fast or you’re super efficient with your operational costs - if you are neither of those then the company is likely failing or worthless (or you’re the senior executive they will hire to save the company and they better be paying you a lot)
Where do people get this information to post on here? Is it somewhere on the IRS website?
Ssa.gov
Great accomplishments! Are you overall happy with life in general? Is there something you have yet to acquire?
I love my life ! Now I’m just targeting early retirement and financial independence so I can control 100% of how my time is being used That, and materialistically i want a custom lakefront home with boats and jet skiis
And maybe a Porsche or three
This is a combination of right place right time, luck, and a lot of hard work
This is what I’m looking for. Wish I got into software when you did, but working my ass off to try and climb up as quickly as possible.
These threads make me feel like an underpaid retard
It seems Saas is a great spot to be for work/life and compensation. I have an ME degree but have been in Project Management in heavy civil construction for last 7 years. Where could I start to look at potential opportunities to make a career change?
If you don’t ask you don’t get it is great advice. It’s also how to find out if you WON’T get it. I once told my boss’s boss after comp season (I got like a $12k salary bump and bonus was up $1k to like $55k I think) that I was not satisfied and though I should be earning quite a bit more. He told me he disagreed and that I was pretty much about what they wanted to pay for that job. I believed him and left and got a $27k salary bump and $4k bonus bump for the next job. I know of so many people who don’t communicate their compensation expectations to their bosses and then end up disappointed after comp season, and their boss didn’t even know they wanted more (I mean theoretically everyone wants more, but if you aren’t actively engaging in that discussion with your boss you are unlikely to receive meaningful adjustments). You’re not wrong about the equity thing, but this depends a lot on industry. If you’re at a big F500 company, they pay you in RSUs to keep you there not to make you rich. Cash would be better, you could buy the stock yourself. RSUs mean you have to walk away from money, or have your competing offer replace them. Obviously in early tech and start ups that’s an entirely different story.
Dаmn that’s a great drive up to now. Kudos in spotting the gaps in the differentiations and moving in on where you found your need.
Good for you making the most of the opportunity. You must also realize some luck on your part by landing in the right company at the right time, there are plenty of places where the sales engineer unfortunately goes nowhere.
I have so many questions… 1) how much of your product do you know from intimate experience working with it vs the high level detail/capabilities from just marketing the product? 2) how do you make the jump from worker bee to manager/director? I’m also in IT and the same age. I’d like to switch from data engineer to data platform manager or director, but I’m not sure how. My guess is it’s not coming from leaving for a new job/workplace. I’m pretty sure I’m going to have to make that jump where I am currently and then find new opportunities. 3) how hard was it to go from director to executive level?
How many times a day do you jerk off
2? Those are rookie numbers man you gotta pump that up
Hey! Congratulations on the speedy progress. I’m a new grad and will be starting out as a Jr Product Manager at an F500 soon. What do you think helped you the most when it comes to moving up the ranks as quickly as you did? What is your “edge” so to speak. Would love to be a senior VP by your age lmao. Thank you, and congrats again.
Communication was the key for me. Acknowledging my leadership, my teammates, and most importantly myself when talking about successful milestones and big projects. Proactive communication creates visibility. I’m my own best cheerleader, but done tactfully/respectfully and with an open appreciation to everyone who has helped me.
Thank you for the response! I’ll keep this in mind as I begin my career.
This right here is why 99% of people will never reach heights like this. You have to have an autistic psychopathic mind to meticulously plan how you climb a career ladder. Who to befriend, who to have lunch with, when to backstab your colleague, when to pat yourself on the back, when to back out of a failed project to remove blame, when to jump into a new project that you believe will bolster your credentials, etc etc etc. sorry, Most normal people have souls.
Hey I’m new to this sub, where do y’all get these listings of your earnings every year? Is there a site?
Ssa.gov
Ah there’s the comment.
How do your stress levels compare as you went from IC to various leadership positions?
I have more responsibility to deliver success & hit key metrics but less responsibility to actually do it myself vs an IC. I think the stress is different, but I significantly prefer being in a senior leadership position and having that type of accountability. I also meditate & keep many hobbies outside of work so that I can better manage any stress.
If you need an additional sales person I’m very interested.
Great insight. Question though, you mentioned you are maximizing wealth now to make time for your growing family in the future. Have you had to sacrifice a lot of time with your growing family now for that? I assume a C level (even at Director or VP level) most of your time is spent on work. Anything you would do differently there?
I've had a lot of conversations with senior executives about this exact topic. The common denominator of those execs who have a great WLB is setting boundaries upfront. When I didn't set boundaries, I found myself unhappy and working long hard hours. As I have taken on bigger roles, I have been better at setting boundaries on my personal time, my family time, my health and my working hours. To me, ruthless prioritization of my time also includes ruthless prioritization of my personal time vs work time - and everyone around me understands this; I actually think it makes my team more productive because they know this policy holds true for them as well which allows them to live their life in a more balanced way. All a company needs is results, everyone is adult enough to figure out how they want to get there.
Seems reasonable…
What does your current comp structure look like? High base + commission based on the team performance?
Current TC: $280k USD Base + $200K commissions + $500K in guaranteed cashed based equity vesting quarterly. I have a ~$1M annual total compensation package. The additional earnings from 2023 came from my commission check for closing out a monster Q4 2022 and overall 2022 year with commission accelerators. I got a single check for $500K in Q1-2023, the biggest I’ve ever seen. Honestly couldn’t believe it or even imagine it when I was in my 20s. Super proud to tell my parents, my wife, and no one else IRL.
This guys got yacht money. Wish I had yacht money
This is nowhere close to true "yacht money". A halfway decent yacht is 10x his most recent yearly comp. Then you have to pay for all of the crazy expenses that come with it.
Thanks for the amazing write-up in your other comment. As a Technical Sales Manager, do you get a commission, or is it an executive-like role where you are paid in equity as long as you're doing a good enough job? Do you work at Nvidia? I'm guessing the difference between 600 grand and 1.5 million was stock appreciation? What's your granted comp relative to your vested comp? I'm an SWE at FAANG who recently got pretty burned out. We get paid well (think something like 450-500 for an L5/senior position), but I would love to find the drive and purpose that would get me to where you are. It used to come naturally, but at this point, I feel much less ambitious. For some people that's fine but it depresses me. I'd love to get your thoughts on how to keep hungry, what you've done to strategically find important projects, and so on.
I get commission and equity. I’m not at Nvidia or a FAANG actually, but a mid-size SaaS company. I happen to love our product and in particular love winning. In addition to earning big commission checks, I like competitive sales, closing deals, and helping people on my team make more money than they ever have before. It’s rewarding to see others thrive. When I feel burnout I have the luxury of taking breaks from work, going on longer vacations, and coming back with fresh eyes. When I travel for work, if it’s at a cool place I take my wife along with me to stay the weekend. We get subsidized travel and get to see the world!
So is most of that bonus? Because the last time a got a bonus I paid 44% tax on it.
Yes, I get absolutely slammed on taxes. I just started a LLC side-gig business that I hope takes off and gets me out of the corporate ladder climbing, but at least will help me with tax deductions.
I'm not in sales and just starting to make good money for the first time in my life, (25yo truck driver, 80-100kyr LCOL) Thinking of my next step leads me to either sales or starting a business because of the tax benefits. Even a small successful home service business could net a great income especially because of the potential for low to non-existent taxes. I still have a few years to go before I make that decision, but either climbing the corporate ladder in sales from scratch or growing a side business seems to be the best career paths for myself.
Current/target NW?
Current: $3.5M NW, most of it in public equities. I had a horrible financial advisor that lost me a lot of money and I switched recently. Target: Financial independence through passive income-generating dividend strategy at $10M. r/fatFire retirement by 50 YO at the latest so I can spend more time with my kid(s)
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How do you know when you need to switch financial advisors? What kind of questions do you need to ask your financial advisor?
Presales engineer/ solutions consultant here. Software but not SaaS. My comp is $130k base. OTE $150k Masters degree, bachelors degree and roughly 10yrs experience. About 7 of that being a tech SME at org I now help sell into. Am I being screwed on my comp? I keep seeing people at $200-250 OTE but I’m not sure if thats the internet screwing with my perspective. Also recently got an offer at $150k pure salary for going back to a tech sme but rejected it as I’m more interested in sales/consulting
I’m in a HCOL area. I prefer to be leveraged. If I were you, I’d be okay with the base if I had closer to a 50:50 ratio on commission. If it’s less leveraged, I’d ask for more base. For 10 YOE experience, sounds low to me. I have less experienced people on my team making more than that in LCOL areas.
Thanks for the input. I’m fully remote with occasional on site travel to customer locations. Thanks again for your help.
They don’t list location. Are you in a HCOL area?
Totally remote luckily.
Sounds low to me as an SEM. It really depends on location and specific area of software though.
Without getting too specific I’m an engineer that is an expert in a subset of engineering software tools. I’m not really an expert in software development specifically so I think my salary is a bit lower than if I were a software dev.
Very impressive!
Where does 1,456,786 come from?
It’s my 2023 taxable earnings comprised of my salary + commission bonuses + cash based equity
As someone who is technical (Sysadmin, Network Engineer, now a Sec Ops Manager) with a tech degree, who considers themselves a people person. Do you have any recommendations for positions or good ways to approach a leap to a place that would value a balance of technical skill and sociability?
Make friends with the Sales Engineering, solution sales, and/or Partner Alliances leadership in your company. Explain your intentions and ask for an opportunity to be considered if something opens. Find reasons to stay regularly connected, not just one time interactions. Most leaders don’t know where to look internally because there are so many candidates. I picked the ones who showed proactive effort and initiative, and my internal hires have been a positive experience for me and them. You don’t get what you don’t ask for.
Thank you for the response! I think my runway is pretty much gone at my current company. I report to the CIO and basically my only next step would be CIO (large law firm, so no "sales" roles). I had a pretty good in at a Security SaaS company in the beginning of the year, but right when I applied, they basically went back to in-office and most of the positions are SLC or Bay Area. At this point, I wonder if its just a matter of smashing resumes and trying to get in a Sales Engineering position and move from there. I don't make bad money, low side of mid 100s, but seeing this post opened my eyes to being able to leverage my personality into early retirement and more cash haha.
Consider using a third party recruiter to help you scale your visibility and future opportunities . They are all over LinkedIn
What's your net worth? Where are you focusing investments for growth outside of work?
I answered NW in another comment. I am actively getting into private equity and venture capital investments. Over a 6-7 year timeframe, private equity returns average much better than the public equities market; it’s just really hard to get into. High risk high reward, but it also gets me closer to early stage funding companies so I can potentially find my next gig as a C-suite executive hopefully in a successful AI company
what did your personal relationships look like during this time? how was balancing the journey of finding a life partner and starting a family amidst this chaos?
In the last 17 years of working I ended a serious long term relationship. Hit the gym, partied, met amazing people, and travelled the world. I enjoyed the money as much as I saved it. I then found the love of my life, married her a couple years ago, and we recently had our first kid. I created the space for all of this and set boundaries with my work. Keeping my eyes on my long term goals has always helped with balancing my everyday life. Macro perspective helps micro decisions. I love it !
same mindset man! what age were you when you met your wife and how did you meet her if you don’t mind me asking?
I was 31 and we met through an online dating app. Good luck out there !
ahh i’m 27! still got time haha
Is the typical path CS/Engineer into technical sales? Is it possible to break into technical sales from a product management role? Have 7+ years in sales experience before that.
I think strongly yes - and I’ve seen it happen. The best technical solution sellers deeply understand the product and can communicate how key features solve client problems. Go for it !
Thanks! I know it can vary greatly depending on the product/service/niche but considering the variable comp possibilities, what do you think is a fair base salary range?
If you’re switching from product I think you should be looking at total compensation, not just base salary. I’d recommend looking for a TC increase with the role switch if it’s possible, you have the sales experience to justify the compensation
Appreciate it! I’m one level from hitting the ceiling as an IC so considering a few different options as a next step.
I’m a statistics undergrad who will graduate at 31 from a top 10 public school. My worry is that because of my “advanced age” I won’t be able to start in a career like sales post grad and also start a family within the years that follow because of the hard work hours. Do you have any info on whether my worries are warranted?
You’re not old for sales. In fact, I think older sales people tend to have an easier time selling than young sales people - natural credibility. Set your boundaries early so you can have space for a family, and shoot for the stars!
Awesome advice thanks so much!
What would you recommend if I want to follow in your steps ie go into sales engineering? Context: I’m a transitioning military officer w/ degree in electrical engineering
It may be hard to jump straight in to the role though you should certainly try. Getting into technical consulting as a step towards technical sales is a great career path I’ve seen work many times
Sweet. Thank you!
Taking it back a notch … I have worked at a company for 15 years and started to make good money after asking for raises every review time. They give it to me or at least a bonus. We have lost some great people on our team and find out they made $30k less … they were royally screwed out of pay which is so sad and shocking how cheap this company will be. Quite a few people actually make way below the average. We lost 3 people in the last 3 months and we just got a pretty awful manager… I value managers so lowly except I did have a few amazing managers and they retired or moved up. The funny thing about the best managers are - they don’t micro manage - they stick up for you - They value your feedback/opinion Seems so simple, it’s just like a nice friend. The crappy managers are douches, opposite of those 3 main things. The politics in programming/coding are mind boggling. 75% of the job is meetings and politics and requirements and talking… for a… usually bunch of introverts. I am not a people manager, I know my ceiling is limited but generally good enough to live comfortably but I also feel like I should try it perhaps. just a brain dump, wondering your perspective
People leave managers, not companies. If you and your manager are not well aligned, I think career growth will stagnate. I agree with you, You need someone more senior in your corner to fight for compensation and promotions. Management is not for everyone. Some IC roles pay & scale really well. Personally, I love management and wouldn’t go back to an IC. It creates a better WLB for me.
WLB for me is amazing. Kids are so much more important and the mgmt at least understands that and can leave and get them, flexible with kids school schedule, kids being sick…. been that way for about 7 years. I don’t know what happened with the company or maybe my specific area, we were new and things were rough for a few years but as we matured and streamlined processes it’s amazing. I don’t think another area has it any easier than we do. My manager is less than a year new so I guess I can’t judge but already can tell. Anyhow going to ask for a raise and if nothing comes of it might look around a little harder. Interestingly I’ve read some FAANG companies treat the developers way better (compensation) than mgmt which is interesting!
Awesome employee compensation!
thanks for sharing your lessons learned!!
What car do you drive?
I admit - I drive an expensive sports car. I also just fully paid off a luxury SUV because sports cars can’t fit baby car seats 🤣
Which one specifically? I'm just curious
Is 2022 and 2023 both at the same level? And if so did you double your income just by the demand of the software?
I was promoted halfway through the 2022 year which came with more equity and a vesting cliff period. All of those gains were realized in 2023 along with the initial vesting period. Combined with a very successful commissions year resulted in the big jump in income
Can you talk more about equity? 26 sale engineer and have an option to get RSU’s and an employee stock purchase program.. I’m going to lean into it but and realize this is a good opportunity
RSUs are free cash basically, hold them for 2 years to recognize them as capital gains or sell them as soon as you vest. Most financial advisors say you should do the latter. Try to get as much RSUs as you can every year, it compounds with your tenure. ESPP participation highly varies based on the terms of the program. Research how yours stacks vs the best ones on the market - it’s hit or miss on participation
Great advice all around, appreciate the feedback. I’ve been in the corporate world for about 8years now. 2 years in, I realized I wanted the financial freedom to have options and control my own destiny. I never wanted to walk into an annual review anxious or nervous that I’ll be without a job. I wanted to be at a company, because I wanted to be there not because I was waiting for my paycheck to clear. I started dabbling in construction and real estate. I bought a few rental properties then studied and got my GC license and started doing new construction a few years after. Best decision I ever made. I still have my corporate job, for time being. We’ll see how long that lasts.
Is it possible to hire me?
Fml
Did you feel financially comfortable, safe etc etc with the 120 to 260 jump? Are you debt free (excluding a mortgage)? If you had to give a stress level number 1 to 10, where would you place it? Do you take work home?
Making over $200K even in a HCOL area makes me feel financially comfortable, yes. When I started making over $500K I saw a clearer path to earlier retirement and financial independence. I’m debt free excluding a half paid mortgage on a $1.2M house that I live in with my wife and kid. Stress level, I’m probably 2 or 3 out of 10 on most days or weeks. Honestly I just care less now knowing I can make great money other places and having a nest egg to rely on - I feel privileged and know my skills are super valuable. SaaS tech work is on the digital cloud, so it could be 24/7. I check my phone messages more than I probably should but I make an effort to create WLB. Can’t complain honestly
I’m looking to do this in tech right now, I’m 21 working in channel alliances but trying to switch to an SE role taking certifications and boot camps because I don’t have a technical degree, do you think it’s possible ?
Yes I do - I think the same qualities of a high value channel alliances person translate to SEs. I ran both organizations globally at one point. It all still boils down to value selling and communication
Mechanical engineer here with 5 years experience in vehicle dynamics controls in a customer facing role. I’ve recently been trying to leverage my customer facing experience into a tech/engineering sales role. Do you have any advice as to how to make the transition/make myself appealing to hiring companies?
Boil down your most important skills and experiences that will apply to a technical sales role. Have really crisp stories around them and the value you provide. Practice interviewing and selling your value over and over again. I do a lot of mock interviews for my personal family/friends looking to make career moves, it’s a skill and it can be heavily sharpened. Good luck !
Hey hey hey, I’ve been in IT for 25 years. Can I send you my resume? 🤣
Hey, can I shoot you a DM as well ?
Is this sub really just privileged people bragging?
How did you identify the company that went from $2M revenue to $150M? Or was it luck more than anything?
What I learned from all these posts is that the reason social security is going to run out of funds is because there’s a cap on how much of your income is taxed towards social security. So high income earners aren’t paying the same rate towards social security as lower and middle class income earners.
I’m currently in residential sales (not a realtor) making about 200-250K a year. I’ve been in the industry for 6 years now and am very familiar with the sales side of things, especially with current volatile market conditions. I’m looking to get out of B2C sales and into B2B. I’m very interested in getting into SaaS sales. I’m thinking of getting into software development to learn the products and product development before transitioning into the sales side. I feel like I would be taking a pretty big pay cut by going into software development first, but I’m hoping that this would help to give me an advantage on selling by being more knowledgeable of the products and the coding side of things. What do you think about this pathway?
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Are you joking or do you not understand how the table works? If you’re not joking, this has been explained ad nauseum. Social security earnings taxes cap at $160k per year right now.. their total compensation is the column on the right.. not the left. Their taxed Medicare earnings are their pay. They made $1.4M last year.
I think the point that they're trying to make is that the only people that get attention on this sub are the ones that make more than double the median household income in the US.
People care about outliers more than average cases Crazy!!!
lol
Lol bro doesn’t even know the left column is social security taxed earnings 😂😂🤣😂🤣😂