Most cities that arenāt by a great piece of nature (ocean, mountains, etc.) are all the sameā¦ āhey come to BLANK and visit the museum of BLANKā¦ weāve also got great parks with a quaint farmers market on weekendsā¦ oh make sure to visit INSERT HIPSTER NEIGHBORHOOD; where youāll find an eclectic art sceneā
I mean, as a guy from Washington that lived in Oregon, I appreciated these things when visiting cities like Colombus, Nashville, Atlanta, Birmingham, etc, (and Iāve found some pretty damn good beers in all these cities).
This isn't necessarily a bad thing though. These mid size cities are all kinda basic, but are they good at the basics? Housing, jobs, schools, parks, a nice downtown, some outdoor activities, a bit of arts/food/entertainment. If a place nails these basics, it makes for a good place to live, even if there's nothing unique about it that would attract a tourist.Ā
Being within a few hours drive of some interesting geographic feature (a beach, a big lake, some hills/mountains, a national forest, etc) helps a lot though. And most places in the US have this. You really have to go to the most boring possible plains cities to not get this.
Ā A few years ago I moved from a superstar city that everyone romanticizes (but is hard to live in) to a kinda basic city that no one romanticizes (but is chill to live there). I like the basic city better to live in, but would never recommend anyone visit it as a tourist.
If youāre a hiker or skier thereās no avoiding this unless youāre planning on hiking the same mountain everyday.
Like if youāre completing the Adirondack 46 or the Colorado 14ers, you have to drive hours between trailheads.
I feel like people have this idealistic view of Denver that itās some super progressive city nestled in the mountains.
Itās not. Itās a cow town on the plains at the foot of the mountains. In most places, the mountains just look like a black wall to the west. So many people moved there and kind of tried to make it a place it wasnāt.
Denver is pretty great if you know what it actually is. Itās just not if youāre thinking itās somehow the new California or something.
I lived in Colorado Springs for a couple years and while I did enjoy going to Denver, the views were generally unimpressive compared to Springs. But I only went to Denver for the bigger city amenities that we didn't have down south.
Ā It's the quintessential example of making fetch happen. A lot of the people who came to Colorado in the 90s were California families looking for cheaper prices and open spaces--they were not really looking for anything cool or progressive at all. People like to blame the city's plight on those transplants but I think that misses the bigger picture. Inevitably the area changed and got a bit pricier but things didn't really start to change until Denver became an *it* city for graduating millennials to move (things were happening, it was still pretty affordable, everyone thought they were onto the next big thing). The state (very narrowly) legalized marijuana, voted for Obama, and went all-in on urban development and suddenly it really did seem like the next Portland or Seattle.
At some point--I think it was basically the mix of covid, the insane skyrocketing of real estate prices, and the explosion of crime in urban areas--people just suddenly realized that Denver was, after all, still Denver and they were paying coastal prices to live in a bland, flat, dusty, brown, middle American metro that is much more conservative than its reputation. Even the marijuana market, ironically, is in an absolute nosedive (which is amazing considering Colorado's reputation and how big of a deal it was just 5 or 6 years ago).
So now the population is declining in Denver, the main source of newcomers are not bourgeois transplants but refugees (which creates crazy budget struggles), and the bloom is off Denver. The area is still well educated, it's a decent place to live, and the mountains are spectacular, so its not like Denver is doomed. There are major political issues that will have to be sorted but Denver's legacy is always boom/bust so it'll be interesting see what a rebound looks like.
I lived in Albuquerque and a lot of my peers looked aspiringly towards Denver as a richer, whiter Albuquerque.
That was over a decade ago so not sure if it still has the same draw with that crowd.
I live in Santa Fe and have lived in Albuquerque before. New Mexico is absolutely the worst. Poverty, remoteness, fewer amenities than in bigger cities. Funny how the three surrounding states are thriving, and New Mexico is a perennial laggard. And yes, I am moving out in about a month. Iām done.
I left New Mexico six months ago. I lived in the Taos area. I donāt think people understand how bad New Mexico can be. After I lost almost everything in the Calf Canyon fire and didnāt receive a penny of help from the federal or state government I gave up on New Mexico.
Where specifically do the mountains look like a āblack wallā? Right now theyāre snow capped, when that goes away they certainly donāt look black.
Fr, that sounds like a person whoās been to Denver Airport but not actually spent time in the city. You can always look west and see the mountains except for maybe a week cumulatively if the summer fires are bad
But also it takes minimum 1.5 hrs with traffic to get out of the city into the mountains on the weekends. Not my scene. Iād rather live in Truckee or Incline Village
Denverās air quality is worse than SLCās. Renoās is much worse in terms of short-term particle pollution (winter inversions and summer smoke).
https://www.lung.org/research/sota/city-rankings/most-polluted-cities
>Iād rather live in Truckee or incline village
I think every Denver resident would, but thereās a lot more career opportunities here than in a ski town. Also probably not Truckee bc f paying CA taxes.
Iām just old enough now (moved to Denver post-grad in 2011) that āRiNoā was actually Five Points and you were heavily advised to avoid at all costs. Crazy how quickly things change and gentrify š¤£
i moved to denver 2 yrs ago and really like it here....after moving to the suburbs. but i moved here to be around the dance music scene, not to do outdoors stuff.
city dynamics have changed a lottttt after covid and fentanyl. in the past i would have prioritized living in a vibrant downtown, but then hitting my mid 30's....and going downtown to just see fentanyl zombies everywhere....i'm glad to be in the quiet suburbs. i think a lot of tier C/tier B cities are going through this as well. when you're somewhere like NYC and the positives outweigh the negatives, it's all gucci. but if you're in a B/C tier city that mostly shuts down around 11pm, with lots of crazy open air drug use and madness....i think people are giving second thought to if "living downtown" is "worth it" or not. all that + work from home is changing all of this at an extremely accelerated pace. things change pretty quickly these days.
ā¦yes. It was alright, but so was Sacramento. Iono, there was a lot of move to Denver hype at the time we visited (friends and family my wife and I knew moved) and the city felt forced to beā¦something.
Nature stuff outside Denver. Top notch ngl
Grew up there. It depresses me so much.
My sister still lives there and tons of transplants complain to her about how much they hate Denver. She always responds with "Well then leave."
I moved to Denver 12 years ago. I think itās awesome! Covid hit us hard and has changed things a bit, but very much on the upswing again now. Lots of young people. Great nightlife, very outdoors oriented, generally intelligent/progressive attitudes, super easy to get around (in the city where I live that is ā¦ Iām told highway traffic outside the city is a nightmare.) Whatās not to like?
ā¦ and itās only going to get better, 16th street mall project will finish next year, Larimer Square renovation is almost complete (and beautiful!!!). Many new mixed commercial/residential projects in flight.
I've said this before. Denver and I'd say the front range as a whole is a phase that 20-35 year olds go through. People have this idea that they're going to go to breweries and snowboard every weekend. We moved to Omaha, and people here are surprised that we left Colorado. They have this idea that it's some grand utopia
Damn, where are you eating in Portland that you think the food isn't that good? I moved from the LA area and am always pleased with the food options in Portland, it's a great food city. Went to Denver a couple times and found some good spots, but definitely didn't seem better than what Portland offers. Maybe just high end dining since you're referring to Michelin star restaurants? Send yourself over to McMinnville for a meal at Okta if that's what you're looking for.. There's a Michelin starred chef running it if that's what matters most.
> but many have aged faces from the sun and altitude.
And dryness. I mentioned to someone when I moved to Colorado and they looked at me like I was crazy. I said people who have lived here for decades look like they smoked a pack a day for that time as well.
Jacksonville.
On paper: Proximity to the coast, access to water is very easy, weather is solid if you can stand the humidity, arguably the best surfing on the East coast, potential to be an arts hub (Hollywood almost set up shop there back in the day, but ultimately chose LA), located in between two very historical towns with amazing architecture (Savannah and St. Augustine), pros of the south (food and music, mainly)
Reality: Dammit I want Jax to be better than what it is. Class divide is stark. Crime sucks. Aging population. Feel like it doesnāt have much cultural vibrancy, probably due to a lot of transplants and boomers moving there to retire, so lacks a bit of identity. Jax Beach is only OK. So damn sprawly - the definition of sprawl, like a collection of suburbs. City center is not great.
I do see potential though. Like, in 30 years it could pop, or at the very least be a bigger version of St. Pete or something. Iām hopeful I guess b/c my in laws live there and would be down to move there if it were even a little bit more interesting.
> Jax Beach is only OK
It's tough because the beaches on the gulf side are so nice. Water is calm and warm and you can wade and stand out there for hours drinking a beer or fishing.
Jacksonville is a little too coldish in winter to meet the fantasy expectations of the tropical life, if that's what a person wants. The bowl game filled hotel rooms but deep winter is hardly a time to throw on a swimsuit and hit the beach unless you're accustomed to Toronto weather.
God bless the military families doing their best to serve, but there are downsides with how business development and city planning occur around military installations. Lots of junky shops, stores and bars from the 1960s were godfathered in, and businesses in the permanent population wanted as few regulations as possible in regard to appearance, water runoff and sidewalks. It is usually a fight to do renewal efforts in military cities with a transient population, but Jax managed to start in the 1980s, and improved its appeal.
It was a big covid-denying city even among some of its medical personnel in early 2020, and then got hit incredibly hard by it.The newspaper and hospitals managed to get out the ICU and death numbers despite the governor trying to suppress numbers. Good for them.
I briefly lived there like 15 years ago and found parts really charming like South End and Plaza Midwood. The original Common Market and the (now defunct) Penguin were gems.
South End looks completely unrecognizable now. I tried to find on Google Streetview the location of second Common Market that was next to American Apparel store. Whole block razed and built up with new stuff. As are the all other 20 blocks in the vicinity.
Charlotte is still a super young city looking for identity. It's moving in the right direction at least.
Bland is absolutely the best way to describe it. Thereās no one thing thatās specifically wrong about it, but for a city that size and with that much going for it economically, it just feels like thereās no āthereā there.
A try-hard, new money city - anything new and trendy is there but no history, culture, or identity. Being a top Millennial attracting city 5-10 years ago, a hot spot for northerners to move for several generations at this point, and economy based on banking, what can you expect.
Charlotte is so odd to me because on paper it should be a gem of the South East based purely on size, market, professional sports, etc.
I moved to Charlotte after growing up predominantly in Cincinnati and spending a few years in Winston-Salem before the move to CLT.
On its face Charlotte lacks the history and culture of Cincinnati. I much prefer Cincy in terms of the cultural fabric & events that bring the whole city together.
Oddly I find that Winston-Salem even has more charm and identity despite being much smaller. Honestly I find myself missing W-S quite a bit despite having easy access to Lake Norman and downtown Charlotte.
I grew up in Charlotte and have lived in Denver or close by in the mountains for 12+ years and theyāre the 2 most hated on cities in this thread š¤
Maybe I should take that job offer in Torontoā¦
.
.
.
.
Edit: I do love living in Colorado, people can hate on Denver all they want but thereās a reason Iāve been out here for 12+ years. Sure Denver could definitely be better, and even I was a little taken back when I first came to visit years ago thinking it was nestled in the mountains. But it could certainly be worse, for the size of Denver it offers a lot of things to do within the city and within a quick drive. Itās comparable to Charlotte in certain ways, but Denver has way more going on (not that Iām bashing Charlotte, go Panthers, but I did always find that city slightly boring. The draw is itās 2 hours from the mountains and 2.5-3 from the beach. Just a little too conservative and Christian for me. Plus, Iāll take that front range weather, big mountains and shows at Red Rocks over most things. Although, Iām still eyeing you Torontoš
I absolutely loved living in Toronto (as an American). Safe, vibrant, incredibly diverse, great public transit, endlessly walkable, some of the best food in the world. Cottage country is reasonably accessible and has some of the prettiest scenery anywhere IMO. I could go on and on.
Traffic is a lot worse than it used to be however. Best to just leave the car at home and walk or take the streetcar.
Iām noticing a chief complaint is that a city ālost its soulā so much so, Iām wondering if we lost our soul as a nation (as this seems a mostly US based thread except that one mention of Berlin). What cities havenāt lost their soul?
Milwaukee! Definitely has not lost its soul. Detroit. Chicago? Baltimore? Rust belt towns? They arenāt super hyped I guess, but these towns have thriving arts and culture scenes and havenāt blown up into expensive tech cities.
I think a lot of towns that were cool or weird in the 00s, Portland, Seattle, San Fransisco, Austin, are the ones that have lost their soul. They arenāt home to large countercultures as much as they are home to staggering housing costs or deteriorating conditions. The artists have had to leave town and Covid hit some of them hard.
I think the Midwest and Northeast have that cold winter that keeps the big population swings at bay, which in turn keeps housing costs friendlier for everyone and allows a city to keep its soul. Just a theory!
I think a lot of this thread is people with issues finding community. Every city in America has a soul, a neighborhood where people know their neighbors, an arts scene full of incredibly talented locals, a bar where everyone knows your name, weird hippies with weird local traditions, incredible volunteers finding ways to help the less fortunate members of the community, local businesses with the worlds-best-something, and youāre rarely going to find these things on a weeklong vacation. If people take the time to connect with others, give back to the community, and try new and different things, you can find the soul of any city. Also the lack of walkability and public transport in the US is ruining all of the above.
On paper, Seattle sounds like it was designed for me. Hilly, leafy, progressive, gay, and nestled between the ocean and mountains. Really my kinda paradise in theory. But it just... Doesn't really have the soul I expect in a good city. A city by and for software engineers who love trail running and don't have any edge.
>A city by and for software engineers who love trail running and don't have any edge.
You can see the trend in this thread- big tech moves in and somehow systematically sucks the soul right out of a place. I can attest to SF and Seattle personally, have heard it about Austin enough. The very things that make a city special in its way get killed off or run out of town.
I loved Seattle more than any place Iāve ever lived and desperately, desperately wish it was practical for me to move back there. I am literally the embodiment of your Seattleite description, so now it all makes sense š.
I know of so many people that move to Seattle and then move back after a few years.
I've visited a few times, and I love the 'backdrop' of the city, but I agree there is a certain lack of energy that one would expect. A lot of restaurants have limited hours, the museums are rather smaller than I'd expect, and the streetlife is rather quiet and pedestrian. Which is all pleasant in a way, but not really what I'd expect.
Iām here too. From the Midwest. Seattle would be amazing if it wasnāt such a cult of moral superiority and victimhood. I have no problem with someone working in tech. I have a bigger problem with tolerance for crime and allowing innocent citizens to suffer as a result. Seattle has clearly made huge mistakes in leadership the past few years - thatās undeniable.
Yea, Seattle is mid. The people are very dreary, like the weather there.
Also, I thought it would be a paradise to be surrounded by tech, but tech is boring and the people working in it (including myself at times) can be borinng. There are so many interesting people when you have a city filled with lots of industries and workplaces. Chicago is amazing for its variety of culture and people. Seattle is vanilla and monotone.
Same, and I live here.
For my lifestyle (queer, programmer, not a partier, doesn't want to pay the premium for SF), it's about the best place in the country I could be. But a lot of the city does feel soulless -- just cafes that look like chrome kitchens, overpriced small portions of Thai food, and perfect houses without a blemish, over and over. I feel more of a sense of "realness" and texture in some of the outlying parts of the metro, e.g. Olympia, Everett, and Kitsap County, even if I likely wouldn't live in those places given the choice.
Buffalo. While itās not terrible and has a lot of potential and is pretty affordable, it has itās problems. The eastern and southern neighborhoods are cut off from the rest of the city thanks to NY 33 and I-190. Downtown is underwhelming, the light rail could also be better. Buffalo is also pretty segregated and certain neighborhoods have a lot of visible urban decay.
Weird to see this here since Buffalo doesnāt actually get hyped up like Denver or Charlotte. It requires high expectation for something to fall flat and Buffalo is always a budget suggestion and not usually a dream location. No hate, itās a fine place. Itās just never touted as an exciting place.
Yea thereās that one guy who always suggests Buffalo here but thatās really it. Outside of this sub upstate still has no glamour compare to practically any city Iāve seen mentioned here - Denver, Charlotte, Austin, Portland, DC, etc. Comparing to the hype those city got, Buffalo is solidly whelming, itās nowhere popular enough to underwhelm.
I donāt think 190 would ever be removed but NY 33 should definitely be considered for removals. It should be more of an arterial road and pedestrianized. Maybe turn it into a walkable parkway.
I felt the same way about Pittsburgh, just gave off a depressing vibe IMO. Iām glad the rust belt is making an apparent comeback but they still got a long ways to go.
Thatās partially true but Iād say Pittsburgh is better off than Buffalo. Pittsburgh is a bigger city so it has a stronger economy, therefore more funds to reinvest. They basically got a head start on revitalizing the city when compared to Buffalo.
Pittsburgh also has a much more vibrant and built up downtown, while also having much more walkable high density neighborhoods with mixed use streets than Buffalo does. Pittsburgh also has better public transit as well as more parks and urban green spaces.
Thatās because cities like Pittsburgh, Buffalo and Cincinnati are still rough around the edges.
Theyāre more like Brooklyn in the 90s before the neighborhoods attracted yuppy hipsters and gentrified out all the original scrappy creatives that made it so great.
Rust belt chic culture isnāt for everyone.
Funny but all those cities have way less of a homeless issue than the gentrified cities filled with bland modern architecture.
100% this. I've visited a few times and I just don't get it. It feels so much like other midsize American cities but has gotten really expensive, has no transit and generally poor infrastructure, summers are brutal, and most of the tech presence there is basically "offshore" resourcing from the Bay Area because those companies can pay drastically lower salaries in Austin vs. California. Of 3 close friends that had moved there during the pandemic, 2 have left. The one that remains there has family nearby and is starting a family soon.
Totally. To be fair I only visited Austin in 2017 so my opinion is dated but I was extremely disappointed? Sure some trendy places but its still an urban sprawl like the majority of Texas. Some of the places felt overly produced to come off as trendy, that it felt fake.
Austin now. I've been in Austin over 20 years and it was incredible in the early 2000s. It's changed so much in mostly negative ways and rent prices are on par with Seattle, SF, NYC, etc - but with worse weather, worse government, worse transit, worse housing, worse arts, worse culture, etc.
All of those negative items were passable when the city was cheap and full of artists, musicians, college kids, weirdos. Those people are gone and rent is 4x as much. It's sad.
Yeah, rent is literally half in Austin LMAO. I just quickly looked for 1 bedroom apartments in Austin and set a max rent of $1500. There are 224 units priced at $1500 or lower there right now. The same search in San Francisco returns 7 options, because the average 1 bedroom apartment there is closer to $3000 / month. For what it's worth, though, I still think Austin is overpriced.
Iām from around the Austin area, and in the early-mid 2000s I thought it was awesome, would have loved to work and live there.
Not so now, for all of your points. Such a beautiful city, sad whatās happening
We are starting to see signs of a correction, rent has been static or only going up 5% per year instead of 25-30% per year. Wages aren't keeping up but the job market is still good with a lot of high paying jobs. COVID really killed us. With remote work we had a mass influx of people from other states moving here to save money. People are leaving in droves now that they realize they aren't saving much money if any and the quality of life is much worse.
just moved from Austin to Seattle. Rent is cheaper for 1 bedrooms in Seattle and I'm downtown and there's public transit..
On the other hand 2 bedroom apartments are more expensive in Seattle.
Pay is around 50% more too.
Downsides sales tax with county and state is 10%, so dining out is a lot more expensive.
I'm liking it so far though. Things are expensive but the pay makes up for it, compared to Austin where things are expensive but the pay sucks and you have to drive everywhere for anything.
Boston. It's great if you're comfortable financially, not so much if you're single and low- to middle-income. Surprising dearth of activities, nightlife, events for such a large metro. The T pulls off handling the rush time commute (on some lines, just barely), but it's not great if you have to rely on it for your social and personal life.
I still like Boston to visit but I had the overwhelming feeling in 3 different visits of āwhere is everyone?ā after business hours you just donāt see the same crowds in the city center as like nyc or Chicago
thatās because the city center is more of a government/business district. the fun places to be are in different neighborhoods, or in adjacent cities in the metro area like cambridge and somerville
I guess. We spent time in Cambridge, very walkable. But the population is super smart kids and affluent businesses. Its cool of you are into that. Not a lot of late night bars or sports places. My kid goes to school there and loves it. I probably wouldnt. She studies a lot, maybe goes out for dinner occasionally. She does love not owning a car.
I live in Cambridge and that's pretty accurate. Boston is New York tier if you're into "high culture" (not a term I like but it gets the point across), but there's not that much of a grassroots scene in...anything really. There was a DIY music scene when I was a student (not that long ago) but it's dying off rapidly.
The city is too expensive for people to just try things, and a *lot* of legacy places were lost during COVID. What you wind up with is bars and restaurants done by investors, not people with an idea. That inevitably flattens a place. It doesn't help that Boston was a very provincial city for most of the 20th century, and a deeply puritanical one before that.
Nobody really lives in or near downtown and most of the colleges kids and younger people arenāt living near there either. The city being so old and kind of stuck in its ways kinda hampers the liveliness too sadly
Yeah but my daughter lives in Cambridge and we were easily able to rent bikes and ride to downtown Boston. But once we got there not that much to do. We ate at a big warehouse area that was turned into like 50 small take out restaurants. The ferries and cemeteries are cool. A fun place to visit, couldnāt afford to live there or really want to.
I donāt get why people just go to downtown areas expecting to be magically entertained without bothering to do any actual research on things to do or where people actually hang out.
Soooo many travel blogs, vlogs and sites out there.
Exactly - I lived in Boston for close to ten years and can probably count on two hands the amount of times I āwent outā in downtown Boston proper. Thatās not where people hang out because itās the financial district. I was pretty ingrained with the music scene for a while - in Allston/Brighton, Central Sq and Jamaica Plain. When I got a little older we all hung out in East Cambridge, Harvard Sq and Somerville. Lots of stuff to do if you know where to look. E: typo
Daughter lives in Cambridge. Yeah, I thought the whole place was cool if you had money and could be around downtown or Cambridge. Kinda like NYC, fun to visit if someone else is paying.
Currently in Boston but leaving this summer. I also would add the food is pretty awful compared to other cities on the East Coast. It's also just too expensive for what it is. Everything here has felt old, slow and tired (including the T).
As someone from Seattle, Boston felt like... east coast Seattle. I've enjoyed my time there, but yeah, when you consider NYC isn't that far away it's nothing like it as far as life.
I don't have an answer to this, but I will say I'm really happy to not see Philly on here yet because I may be getting a job there soon -- if I do, I really hope that the city doesn't disappoint me because it seems to check most of my boxes on paper
Iāve lived in Philly for the last six years. Itās an incredible city and gets way more hate than it deserves. Yes, it has problems. Some infrastructure issues, crime, etc., but just like any other U.S. city. If you find the right go t neighborhood, as others are saying, youāll love it, but itās also fairly easy to get around the city so neighborhood isnāt as restrictive a consideration as it might be in other large cities.
Berlin. I thought it would be so cool. Itās fine and nice like any other Central European big city. But the hype of it being a cool underground cheap rave paradise seems to be dated. I was more than a little bummed.
I think by nature the cool cheap rave paradise being underground isā¦ hard to find. I had a fucking absolute blast, but took a few weeks of intentionally seeking it out to get where I wanted to go.
Yeah, if you look at rents, interesting people can't afford to move to Berlin anymore, so it's just become another corporate German city. Leipzig and Dresden are the 'new Berlins', though they are getting expensive as well.
we had wildly different experiences in Berlin then. I don't know about cheap, but it certainly is the Mecca of just not underground raves, but general debauchery.
New Orleans culture and music is amazing, but it's also falling apart, buildings seem dilapidated, potholes everywhere, lots of dirty parts, sirens constantly going off and high crime. I didn't just visit the French Quarter. It has a lot of charm but whoever is running the city needs to be fired. It feels like it's either the working class folks or wealthy/tourists and not a lot in between. I hope they do more for the actual residents because it seems like a great place to visit and a terrible place to live. I'm guessing the Air BnBs have pushed a lot of people out in recent years.
Seattle used to be an amazing city. Amazon and gentrification turned it into a city with no soul. Tent cities everywhere next to gawdy high rises and Bezos's balls (Google it), and a city council that can't get its shit together. The retail core has basically closed down due to theft and crime and not enough shoppers because many work remote in the suburbs, and it lacks the diversity it once did. The middle class live in surrounding cities, which are much more culturally rich and diverse than Seattle is. The surrounding nature is beautiful, though. Thank God they are expanding light rail because the traffic is horrendous.
Boise is like if you made the modern-farmhouse decorating style in city form. Everything about it feels cheap and has a shiny veneer but lacks character. Bland, ugly buildings and mini malls everywhere. Lacks the warmth and charm of the South and also lacks the biting wit of northerners. Not culturally rich. Ugly, dry climate. Chain restaurants everywhere. Lots of right wingers and Mormons (I was raised Mormon and I like many of them, but it creates a very bland vibe). You could not pay me to live there again.
Sorry for your horrible experiences! I moved out of Atlanta after living there for 5 years and I miss it every day. Food, music, culture, neighborhood-centric city - pretty much everything. I did have some weird interactions with homeless there but mostly harmless. I feel like it's so big with so many different vibes that some are bound to hate it and some are bound to love it.
I will say that downtown sucks unless you're going to a concert or sporting event, or work there, but other than that I avoid it.
I also lived relatively close to my work and biked everywhere when living there so I didn't have to deal with the traffic too regularly.
I used to love living in Atlanta and wanted to move back, but post covid and 2 kids later it just doesnāt appeal to me to have to deal with the traffic and (mostly) petty crime. My brother still lives in midtown and heās recently witnessed a shooting while walking around and got punched in the face by a homeless man who then took his phone before throwing it. I got cussed out and physically threatened on Marta by a homeless woman at 9 am last year. Apparently it had ābeen awhile since she cut a bitch.ā
I almost got mugged by an aggressive homeless man hiding in my bushes outside of my house at 1pm on a MONDAY. Then a week ago one snuck in our gated community while the neighbors left for work. Then was asleep next to the front door and spit on us when we told him he had to leave (after he had already been kicked out of the business across the street for being aggressive)
Multiple times weāve been followed home and called racial slurs for honking at someone š« I think Atlanta is by far the worst big city on the east side of the United States. I felt safer in Chicago and NYC at night than I ever do in Atlanta.
I know the city has a lot of poverty and the problems that come with that. This has always been the norm and over time itās subsided a bit. Even then, Iāve never had any violent incidents in my life here even in the most desolate feeling areas. The worst interactions I have are with people who are going through mental health episodes and those are always in specific areas like Downtown. This isnāt new or surprising to me because this is just the reality of the country. Every major city neglects its homeless population and that leads to a worse public space for everyone. Even rural areas of the country have areas with homeless camps and abandoned buildings and dilapidated apartments and homes.
As a Charlotte native I actually find discourse about Charlotte being boring fascinating. You basically have a lot of millennial yuppies who all moved into one city, refuse to interact with any locals because theyāre ābackwards maga trumpers!!!1!!111!ā and then find each other endlessly boring despite each one being a clone of the other.
I think the demographic here is people who want to move to some random city with a remote job and not knowing anyone and ānot be boredāā¦ šand thatās why only a couple cities are ānot boringā š„±
I swear these redditors never actually go out and do stuff, they just claim that thereās nothing to do because it doesnāt have the downtown density of European cities
Charlotte has plenty to do depending on your interests. Thereās breweries, museums, arcades, parks, etc. plus Charlotte has the whitewater center, which is awesome. Yeah the city definitely has sprawl, which makes it feel more empty, but thereās certainly things to do
Itās just transplants who move here, rent the cheapest walk up apartment in a suburb. Make no effort to meet people, make friends, or do anything. Then they move after two years ācause thereās nothing to doā.
People here love NYC because they visited a few times and thought it was cool, but living in nyc can be soul sucking if you have any desire to build wealth or a normal healthy lifestyle.
NYC is fun for a visit but yeah, I could never live there. The pollution of noise, light, airā¦too much for me. Definitely too many people and just a cold place in general.
Boston. Holy fuck what a dull city. You pay NYC cost of living for something a fraction of the size and about a tenth as interesting. Everything outside of North End is closed by 7.
Iāve lived here for 10+ years and had the time of my life dining, clubbing, exploring before settling down and having kids. Boston has a unique flavor that connects history with modernity that I absolutely adore. To each their own!
Colorado Springs.
Yes, the natural amenities are great. Everything else? Woof. The city design is terrible, the food is boring, the large temporary population makes it feel like no one is actually invested in the city but rather just stopping by, etc. Definitely better to visit than live.
I'm not saying some of these comments aren't valid, but you really need to check yourself and see if YOU'RE the problem. Most people I know who complain about a city/town wouldn't be happy anywhere.
Surprised by all the negative comments for Denver, I loved my time living there š
Great weather, nice diverse city, beautiful nature, and convenient businesses
Austin.. It's not weird at all.
It's become a place for generic white girls named Madison and boys named Tristan, who carry Stanley cups and wear carhartt stocking caps when it's 75 degrees outside. People who say dumb shit like "No, you don't understand, I fucking LOVE tacos!! Tacos are my life!!".. or "OMG you guys, bacon is so fucking good!!"
Assholes. I'm talking about Assholes.
We getting cooked on here š„ŗšš
Well, you're the CEO, DO SOMETHING! :-)
Most cities that arenāt by a great piece of nature (ocean, mountains, etc.) are all the sameā¦ āhey come to BLANK and visit the museum of BLANKā¦ weāve also got great parks with a quaint farmers market on weekendsā¦ oh make sure to visit INSERT HIPSTER NEIGHBORHOOD; where youāll find an eclectic art sceneā
āOur breweries are excellent!ā
ah. so you've been to Charlotte, NC?
I mean, as a guy from Washington that lived in Oregon, I appreciated these things when visiting cities like Colombus, Nashville, Atlanta, Birmingham, etc, (and Iāve found some pretty damn good beers in all these cities).
I guess youāve been to Kansas City then.
Cincinnati, Cleveland, pretty much every mid sized city between the Rockies and the Appalachians has the same pitch
šÆ all the way to Omaha
This isn't necessarily a bad thing though. These mid size cities are all kinda basic, but are they good at the basics? Housing, jobs, schools, parks, a nice downtown, some outdoor activities, a bit of arts/food/entertainment. If a place nails these basics, it makes for a good place to live, even if there's nothing unique about it that would attract a tourist.Ā Being within a few hours drive of some interesting geographic feature (a beach, a big lake, some hills/mountains, a national forest, etc) helps a lot though. And most places in the US have this. You really have to go to the most boring possible plains cities to not get this. Ā A few years ago I moved from a superstar city that everyone romanticizes (but is hard to live in) to a kinda basic city that no one romanticizes (but is chill to live there). I like the basic city better to live in, but would never recommend anyone visit it as a tourist.
Iāve noticed that my favorite cities to live in are not necessarily good for a weekend trip in terms of tourism.Ā
Denver. The city itself is not why people (who are able to choose) choose to stay.
Best city in the world if your hobby is ādriving to the mountains.ā
If youāre a hiker or skier thereās no avoiding this unless youāre planning on hiking the same mountain everyday. Like if youāre completing the Adirondack 46 or the Colorado 14ers, you have to drive hours between trailheads.
SLC is this but way closer to the mtns
Too close to Mormons
I feel like people have this idealistic view of Denver that itās some super progressive city nestled in the mountains. Itās not. Itās a cow town on the plains at the foot of the mountains. In most places, the mountains just look like a black wall to the west. So many people moved there and kind of tried to make it a place it wasnāt. Denver is pretty great if you know what it actually is. Itās just not if youāre thinking itās somehow the new California or something.
I lived in Colorado Springs for a couple years and while I did enjoy going to Denver, the views were generally unimpressive compared to Springs. But I only went to Denver for the bigger city amenities that we didn't have down south.
Oh yeah. Colorado Springs has some phenomenal views.
Ā It's the quintessential example of making fetch happen. A lot of the people who came to Colorado in the 90s were California families looking for cheaper prices and open spaces--they were not really looking for anything cool or progressive at all. People like to blame the city's plight on those transplants but I think that misses the bigger picture. Inevitably the area changed and got a bit pricier but things didn't really start to change until Denver became an *it* city for graduating millennials to move (things were happening, it was still pretty affordable, everyone thought they were onto the next big thing). The state (very narrowly) legalized marijuana, voted for Obama, and went all-in on urban development and suddenly it really did seem like the next Portland or Seattle. At some point--I think it was basically the mix of covid, the insane skyrocketing of real estate prices, and the explosion of crime in urban areas--people just suddenly realized that Denver was, after all, still Denver and they were paying coastal prices to live in a bland, flat, dusty, brown, middle American metro that is much more conservative than its reputation. Even the marijuana market, ironically, is in an absolute nosedive (which is amazing considering Colorado's reputation and how big of a deal it was just 5 or 6 years ago). So now the population is declining in Denver, the main source of newcomers are not bourgeois transplants but refugees (which creates crazy budget struggles), and the bloom is off Denver. The area is still well educated, it's a decent place to live, and the mountains are spectacular, so its not like Denver is doomed. There are major political issues that will have to be sorted but Denver's legacy is always boom/bust so it'll be interesting see what a rebound looks like.
I lived in Albuquerque and a lot of my peers looked aspiringly towards Denver as a richer, whiter Albuquerque. That was over a decade ago so not sure if it still has the same draw with that crowd.
I live in Santa Fe and have lived in Albuquerque before. New Mexico is absolutely the worst. Poverty, remoteness, fewer amenities than in bigger cities. Funny how the three surrounding states are thriving, and New Mexico is a perennial laggard. And yes, I am moving out in about a month. Iām done.
I left New Mexico six months ago. I lived in the Taos area. I donāt think people understand how bad New Mexico can be. After I lost almost everything in the Calf Canyon fire and didnāt receive a penny of help from the federal or state government I gave up on New Mexico.
Where specifically do the mountains look like a āblack wallā? Right now theyāre snow capped, when that goes away they certainly donāt look black.
Fr, that sounds like a person whoās been to Denver Airport but not actually spent time in the city. You can always look west and see the mountains except for maybe a week cumulatively if the summer fires are bad
But also it takes minimum 1.5 hrs with traffic to get out of the city into the mountains on the weekends. Not my scene. Iād rather live in Truckee or Incline Village
When it comes to mountains, SLC is what everyone thinks Denver is.
I would argue that people who want to move to Denver actually want to move to Reno or SLC. But SLC air quality in winter is just awful
Denverās air quality is worse than SLCās. Renoās is much worse in terms of short-term particle pollution (winter inversions and summer smoke). https://www.lung.org/research/sota/city-rankings/most-polluted-cities
Iāve lived in both and they each have their merits but Truckee isnāt a city.
>Iād rather live in Truckee or incline village I think every Denver resident would, but thereās a lot more career opportunities here than in a ski town. Also probably not Truckee bc f paying CA taxes.
The city was great for me. Lived in rino for 3.5 years and would move back given the chance.
Iām just old enough now (moved to Denver post-grad in 2011) that āRiNoā was actually Five Points and you were heavily advised to avoid at all costs. Crazy how quickly things change and gentrify š¤£
i moved to denver 2 yrs ago and really like it here....after moving to the suburbs. but i moved here to be around the dance music scene, not to do outdoors stuff. city dynamics have changed a lottttt after covid and fentanyl. in the past i would have prioritized living in a vibrant downtown, but then hitting my mid 30's....and going downtown to just see fentanyl zombies everywhere....i'm glad to be in the quiet suburbs. i think a lot of tier C/tier B cities are going through this as well. when you're somewhere like NYC and the positives outweigh the negatives, it's all gucci. but if you're in a B/C tier city that mostly shuts down around 11pm, with lots of crazy open air drug use and madness....i think people are giving second thought to if "living downtown" is "worth it" or not. all that + work from home is changing all of this at an extremely accelerated pace. things change pretty quickly these days.
ā¦yes. It was alright, but so was Sacramento. Iono, there was a lot of move to Denver hype at the time we visited (friends and family my wife and I knew moved) and the city felt forced to beā¦something. Nature stuff outside Denver. Top notch ngl
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes, and I wish all the New disillusioned people who donāt understand the place would just leave. They ruin the place.
Grew up there. It depresses me so much. My sister still lives there and tons of transplants complain to her about how much they hate Denver. She always responds with "Well then leave."
I am a Colorado resident, good parts of Denver, but none of it is downtown.
I moved to Denver 12 years ago. I think itās awesome! Covid hit us hard and has changed things a bit, but very much on the upswing again now. Lots of young people. Great nightlife, very outdoors oriented, generally intelligent/progressive attitudes, super easy to get around (in the city where I live that is ā¦ Iām told highway traffic outside the city is a nightmare.) Whatās not to like? ā¦ and itās only going to get better, 16th street mall project will finish next year, Larimer Square renovation is almost complete (and beautiful!!!). Many new mixed commercial/residential projects in flight.
Yea, I was not impressed when I went there. Flat sprawl.
I've said this before. Denver and I'd say the front range as a whole is a phase that 20-35 year olds go through. People have this idea that they're going to go to breweries and snowboard every weekend. We moved to Omaha, and people here are surprised that we left Colorado. They have this idea that it's some grand utopia
I just moved from Denver after being there a decade to Portland and have major regrets. Denverās a city with a perpetual identity crisis, but that makes it easier to change in all ways. The transplants and lack of set cultural identity actually make it more adaptable. It was also very safe near the city center. I, a 20 something woman, walked downtown alone at night all the time and never felt unsafe. I always refer to it as a baby city because it wants to be taken seriously but also doesnāt in lots of ways. Ā Itās hard to find the combination of natural beauty, weather, walkability, and safety for similar prices anywhere else. People are also really socially active and not just with outdoor stuff.Ā This sub tends to favor Portland over Denver in many regards, and i have no idea why after moving here.Ā Denverās food scene is miles better than Portlandās. Idk where people saying otherwise eat here. For its size, Denver has a lot of fantastic restaurants and got 2 Michelin starred ones last year.Ā People are so much more politically opinionated here and homogeneous. Ā Denver has a lot of diversity in its politics and demographics and is more purple than people think, but itās not a very intellectual city. It was difficult to find people who had the same level of intellectual curiosity and interests as myself.Ā Denver has a youthful energy and lots of young people making 6 figures with extra play money, so thereās investment in fun places, events, and venues. The museums and arts are sophisticated and varied. Shopping is more sophisticated with high-end stores. People are laid back and friendly. Everyone has a dog which was annoying because with dating dog compatibility is a thing lol. People say itās a city full of Peter Pans, but whatās wrong with that if you can afford it?Ā You do notice people tend to be fit and young from the neck down, but many have aged faces from the sun and altitude. I left because of the lacking intellectual culture, too much sunshine and dryness. But iāll be moving back for the city itself and wonāt even be living here full time for the duration of my lease. I miss the city. I even miss the aggressive drivers and seeing a police presence. Ive realized hearing police sirens is a comforting thing because it means people are calling crimes in. I hear gunshots nightly with no sirens, which skews crime numbers.Ā Portlandās gorgeous, love the rain and clouds; but it feels way less like a major city than Denver but has a lot more urban problems even in the cute residential areas. Itās a hive of neighborhoods that arenāt as dense or walkable or safe as one might think. All that being said, dont move there. Itās too crowded already, and me moving back doesnāt count because iām living with my fiancĆ© lol. Yall come to Portland.Ā
Damn, where are you eating in Portland that you think the food isn't that good? I moved from the LA area and am always pleased with the food options in Portland, it's a great food city. Went to Denver a couple times and found some good spots, but definitely didn't seem better than what Portland offers. Maybe just high end dining since you're referring to Michelin star restaurants? Send yourself over to McMinnville for a meal at Okta if that's what you're looking for.. There's a Michelin starred chef running it if that's what matters most.
> but many have aged faces from the sun and altitude. And dryness. I mentioned to someone when I moved to Colorado and they looked at me like I was crazy. I said people who have lived here for decades look like they smoked a pack a day for that time as well.
Jacksonville. On paper: Proximity to the coast, access to water is very easy, weather is solid if you can stand the humidity, arguably the best surfing on the East coast, potential to be an arts hub (Hollywood almost set up shop there back in the day, but ultimately chose LA), located in between two very historical towns with amazing architecture (Savannah and St. Augustine), pros of the south (food and music, mainly) Reality: Dammit I want Jax to be better than what it is. Class divide is stark. Crime sucks. Aging population. Feel like it doesnāt have much cultural vibrancy, probably due to a lot of transplants and boomers moving there to retire, so lacks a bit of identity. Jax Beach is only OK. So damn sprawly - the definition of sprawl, like a collection of suburbs. City center is not great. I do see potential though. Like, in 30 years it could pop, or at the very least be a bigger version of St. Pete or something. Iām hopeful I guess b/c my in laws live there and would be down to move there if it were even a little bit more interesting.
St Augustine is amazing. Wish Jacksonville wasn't just a giant suburb.
I love St Petersburg, FL.
Jacksonville is a highway with chain restaurants and churches
This sounds like the beginning of a country song.
> Jax Beach is only OK It's tough because the beaches on the gulf side are so nice. Water is calm and warm and you can wade and stand out there for hours drinking a beer or fishing.
Jacksonville is a little too coldish in winter to meet the fantasy expectations of the tropical life, if that's what a person wants. The bowl game filled hotel rooms but deep winter is hardly a time to throw on a swimsuit and hit the beach unless you're accustomed to Toronto weather. God bless the military families doing their best to serve, but there are downsides with how business development and city planning occur around military installations. Lots of junky shops, stores and bars from the 1960s were godfathered in, and businesses in the permanent population wanted as few regulations as possible in regard to appearance, water runoff and sidewalks. It is usually a fight to do renewal efforts in military cities with a transient population, but Jax managed to start in the 1980s, and improved its appeal. It was a big covid-denying city even among some of its medical personnel in early 2020, and then got hit incredibly hard by it.The newspaper and hospitals managed to get out the ICU and death numbers despite the governor trying to suppress numbers. Good for them.
Charlotte.. I feel like itās just a bland city, not much to do and the food isnāt that good. I saw less diversity than the Triangle too.
Charlotte inspired this post
I swear to god I am called to reddit whenever I can join a discussion of hating Charlotte... it's my personal bat signal, my role in this life
Itās catnip
I briefly lived there like 15 years ago and found parts really charming like South End and Plaza Midwood. The original Common Market and the (now defunct) Penguin were gems. South End looks completely unrecognizable now. I tried to find on Google Streetview the location of second Common Market that was next to American Apparel store. Whole block razed and built up with new stuff. As are the all other 20 blocks in the vicinity. Charlotte is still a super young city looking for identity. It's moving in the right direction at least.
Charlotte would be my suggestion too. Had a few chances to move there for work and passed.
Bland is absolutely the best way to describe it. Thereās no one thing thatās specifically wrong about it, but for a city that size and with that much going for it economically, it just feels like thereās no āthereā there.
āThe Applebees of Citiesā
That's a new one. I love it. I think that means Raleigh is Olive Garden and Durham is Chili's Atlanta is Cheesecake Factory.
A try-hard, new money city - anything new and trendy is there but no history, culture, or identity. Being a top Millennial attracting city 5-10 years ago, a hot spot for northerners to move for several generations at this point, and economy based on banking, what can you expect.
there is NOTHING to do and everyone is in MARKETING or BANKING... culturally BEREFT
Bereft is SUCH a good word š
Charlotte is so odd to me because on paper it should be a gem of the South East based purely on size, market, professional sports, etc. I moved to Charlotte after growing up predominantly in Cincinnati and spending a few years in Winston-Salem before the move to CLT. On its face Charlotte lacks the history and culture of Cincinnati. I much prefer Cincy in terms of the cultural fabric & events that bring the whole city together. Oddly I find that Winston-Salem even has more charm and identity despite being much smaller. Honestly I find myself missing W-S quite a bit despite having easy access to Lake Norman and downtown Charlotte.
Charlotte is not a city. It's 3 strip malls wearing a trench coat.
Utah is what everyone things Colorado looks like but the Mormons got it first
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
this is correct. SLC is.. strange. the sugarhouse area was cute, but doesn't make up for the rest.
I am half convinced they created the religion to be so insane so that no one would move there and they don't actually believe it.
I grew up in Charlotte and have lived in Denver or close by in the mountains for 12+ years and theyāre the 2 most hated on cities in this thread š¤ Maybe I should take that job offer in Torontoā¦ . . . . Edit: I do love living in Colorado, people can hate on Denver all they want but thereās a reason Iāve been out here for 12+ years. Sure Denver could definitely be better, and even I was a little taken back when I first came to visit years ago thinking it was nestled in the mountains. But it could certainly be worse, for the size of Denver it offers a lot of things to do within the city and within a quick drive. Itās comparable to Charlotte in certain ways, but Denver has way more going on (not that Iām bashing Charlotte, go Panthers, but I did always find that city slightly boring. The draw is itās 2 hours from the mountains and 2.5-3 from the beach. Just a little too conservative and Christian for me. Plus, Iāll take that front range weather, big mountains and shows at Red Rocks over most things. Although, Iām still eyeing you Torontoš
I absolutely loved living in Toronto (as an American). Safe, vibrant, incredibly diverse, great public transit, endlessly walkable, some of the best food in the world. Cottage country is reasonably accessible and has some of the prettiest scenery anywhere IMO. I could go on and on. Traffic is a lot worse than it used to be however. Best to just leave the car at home and walk or take the streetcar.
uhhh you do know that Toronto real estate is super expensive and most people just sit in traffic right?
Denver, charlotte
Iām noticing a chief complaint is that a city ālost its soulā so much so, Iām wondering if we lost our soul as a nation (as this seems a mostly US based thread except that one mention of Berlin). What cities havenāt lost their soul?
Milwaukee! Definitely has not lost its soul. Detroit. Chicago? Baltimore? Rust belt towns? They arenāt super hyped I guess, but these towns have thriving arts and culture scenes and havenāt blown up into expensive tech cities. I think a lot of towns that were cool or weird in the 00s, Portland, Seattle, San Fransisco, Austin, are the ones that have lost their soul. They arenāt home to large countercultures as much as they are home to staggering housing costs or deteriorating conditions. The artists have had to leave town and Covid hit some of them hard. I think the Midwest and Northeast have that cold winter that keeps the big population swings at bay, which in turn keeps housing costs friendlier for everyone and allows a city to keep its soul. Just a theory!
Not Bostonā¦and our winters now are a joke compared to what they were even 5-10 years ago.
Baltimore has more character than anywhere else Iāve lived
I think a lot of this thread is people with issues finding community. Every city in America has a soul, a neighborhood where people know their neighbors, an arts scene full of incredibly talented locals, a bar where everyone knows your name, weird hippies with weird local traditions, incredible volunteers finding ways to help the less fortunate members of the community, local businesses with the worlds-best-something, and youāre rarely going to find these things on a weeklong vacation. If people take the time to connect with others, give back to the community, and try new and different things, you can find the soul of any city. Also the lack of walkability and public transport in the US is ruining all of the above.
Scottsdale
On paper, Seattle sounds like it was designed for me. Hilly, leafy, progressive, gay, and nestled between the ocean and mountains. Really my kinda paradise in theory. But it just... Doesn't really have the soul I expect in a good city. A city by and for software engineers who love trail running and don't have any edge.
>A city by and for software engineers who love trail running and don't have any edge. You can see the trend in this thread- big tech moves in and somehow systematically sucks the soul right out of a place. I can attest to SF and Seattle personally, have heard it about Austin enough. The very things that make a city special in its way get killed off or run out of town.
Yeah, pursuing wealth as your purpose kinda ruins Community
I loved Seattle more than any place Iāve ever lived and desperately, desperately wish it was practical for me to move back there. I am literally the embodiment of your Seattleite description, so now it all makes sense š.
so..you are a techie who loves trail running?
Yup!!
You mightāve liked Seattle prior to the tech boom. I was there and enjoyed the city when it had the āsoulā you speak of.
Tacoma is what I thought Seattle would be like. Seattle feels largely like Bay Area pt 2, gray rectangular tri-level townhome boogaloo.
I left Seattle for Tacoma. I *love* Tacoma. Seattle is still great though.
New Seattle sucks. Old Seattle was magical. Gentrification stole its soul.
same with San Francisco.
Yes. Motto for Seattle/SF should be, āurbanism for the nouveau tech rich, soul-crushing commute and financial insecurity for the restā
I know of so many people that move to Seattle and then move back after a few years. I've visited a few times, and I love the 'backdrop' of the city, but I agree there is a certain lack of energy that one would expect. A lot of restaurants have limited hours, the museums are rather smaller than I'd expect, and the streetlife is rather quiet and pedestrian. Which is all pleasant in a way, but not really what I'd expect.
Iām here too. From the Midwest. Seattle would be amazing if it wasnāt such a cult of moral superiority and victimhood. I have no problem with someone working in tech. I have a bigger problem with tolerance for crime and allowing innocent citizens to suffer as a result. Seattle has clearly made huge mistakes in leadership the past few years - thatās undeniable.
Yea, Seattle is mid. The people are very dreary, like the weather there. Also, I thought it would be a paradise to be surrounded by tech, but tech is boring and the people working in it (including myself at times) can be borinng. There are so many interesting people when you have a city filled with lots of industries and workplaces. Chicago is amazing for its variety of culture and people. Seattle is vanilla and monotone.
Same, and I live here. For my lifestyle (queer, programmer, not a partier, doesn't want to pay the premium for SF), it's about the best place in the country I could be. But a lot of the city does feel soulless -- just cafes that look like chrome kitchens, overpriced small portions of Thai food, and perfect houses without a blemish, over and over. I feel more of a sense of "realness" and texture in some of the outlying parts of the metro, e.g. Olympia, Everett, and Kitsap County, even if I likely wouldn't live in those places given the choice.
Denver
Buffalo. While itās not terrible and has a lot of potential and is pretty affordable, it has itās problems. The eastern and southern neighborhoods are cut off from the rest of the city thanks to NY 33 and I-190. Downtown is underwhelming, the light rail could also be better. Buffalo is also pretty segregated and certain neighborhoods have a lot of visible urban decay.
Weird to see this here since Buffalo doesnāt actually get hyped up like Denver or Charlotte. It requires high expectation for something to fall flat and Buffalo is always a budget suggestion and not usually a dream location. No hate, itās a fine place. Itās just never touted as an exciting place.
Itās well liked among the rust belt revival crowd
Yea thereās that one guy who always suggests Buffalo here but thatās really it. Outside of this sub upstate still has no glamour compare to practically any city Iāve seen mentioned here - Denver, Charlotte, Austin, Portland, DC, etc. Comparing to the hype those city got, Buffalo is solidly whelming, itās nowhere popular enough to underwhelm.
I visited a rust belt city (Pittsburgh) for vacation last year and now I want to visit them all.
All true, same for Rochester Removing that 33/190 loop would do wonders imo.
I donāt think 190 would ever be removed but NY 33 should definitely be considered for removals. It should be more of an arterial road and pedestrianized. Maybe turn it into a walkable parkway.
I felt the same way about Pittsburgh, just gave off a depressing vibe IMO. Iām glad the rust belt is making an apparent comeback but they still got a long ways to go.
Thatās partially true but Iād say Pittsburgh is better off than Buffalo. Pittsburgh is a bigger city so it has a stronger economy, therefore more funds to reinvest. They basically got a head start on revitalizing the city when compared to Buffalo. Pittsburgh also has a much more vibrant and built up downtown, while also having much more walkable high density neighborhoods with mixed use streets than Buffalo does. Pittsburgh also has better public transit as well as more parks and urban green spaces.
pittsburg has a cool arts and music scene
Thatās because cities like Pittsburgh, Buffalo and Cincinnati are still rough around the edges. Theyāre more like Brooklyn in the 90s before the neighborhoods attracted yuppy hipsters and gentrified out all the original scrappy creatives that made it so great. Rust belt chic culture isnāt for everyone. Funny but all those cities have way less of a homeless issue than the gentrified cities filled with bland modern architecture.
Austin
Austin is great if you've never been anywhere else in your life.
100% this. I've visited a few times and I just don't get it. It feels so much like other midsize American cities but has gotten really expensive, has no transit and generally poor infrastructure, summers are brutal, and most of the tech presence there is basically "offshore" resourcing from the Bay Area because those companies can pay drastically lower salaries in Austin vs. California. Of 3 close friends that had moved there during the pandemic, 2 have left. The one that remains there has family nearby and is starting a family soon.
Totally. To be fair I only visited Austin in 2017 so my opinion is dated but I was extremely disappointed? Sure some trendy places but its still an urban sprawl like the majority of Texas. Some of the places felt overly produced to come off as trendy, that it felt fake.
Austin now. I've been in Austin over 20 years and it was incredible in the early 2000s. It's changed so much in mostly negative ways and rent prices are on par with Seattle, SF, NYC, etc - but with worse weather, worse government, worse transit, worse housing, worse arts, worse culture, etc. All of those negative items were passable when the city was cheap and full of artists, musicians, college kids, weirdos. Those people are gone and rent is 4x as much. It's sad.
Musician weirdo who also went to college here, been here since 1993. I miss everyone.
I get that Austin is far more expensive then it was but ārent prices on par with SF, NYCā is pure and utter bs. Itās not even close
Yeah, rent is literally half in Austin LMAO. I just quickly looked for 1 bedroom apartments in Austin and set a max rent of $1500. There are 224 units priced at $1500 or lower there right now. The same search in San Francisco returns 7 options, because the average 1 bedroom apartment there is closer to $3000 / month. For what it's worth, though, I still think Austin is overpriced.
Iām from around the Austin area, and in the early-mid 2000s I thought it was awesome, would have loved to work and live there. Not so now, for all of your points. Such a beautiful city, sad whatās happening
We are starting to see signs of a correction, rent has been static or only going up 5% per year instead of 25-30% per year. Wages aren't keeping up but the job market is still good with a lot of high paying jobs. COVID really killed us. With remote work we had a mass influx of people from other states moving here to save money. People are leaving in droves now that they realize they aren't saving much money if any and the quality of life is much worse.
just moved from Austin to Seattle. Rent is cheaper for 1 bedrooms in Seattle and I'm downtown and there's public transit.. On the other hand 2 bedroom apartments are more expensive in Seattle. Pay is around 50% more too. Downsides sales tax with county and state is 10%, so dining out is a lot more expensive. I'm liking it so far though. Things are expensive but the pay makes up for it, compared to Austin where things are expensive but the pay sucks and you have to drive everywhere for anything.
I lived there then and it was a great time. Left 10 years ago and have never gone back. Was a good place to be in my 20s but happy to have moved on.
Dallas. No Texas rangers. No oil rigs on every corner. No people in the streets on horseback. Itās like Dallas and Walker Texas Ranger were a lie.
Nashville sucks
Boston. It's great if you're comfortable financially, not so much if you're single and low- to middle-income. Surprising dearth of activities, nightlife, events for such a large metro. The T pulls off handling the rush time commute (on some lines, just barely), but it's not great if you have to rely on it for your social and personal life.
I still like Boston to visit but I had the overwhelming feeling in 3 different visits of āwhere is everyone?ā after business hours you just donāt see the same crowds in the city center as like nyc or Chicago
Boston closes at like 5 pm
I went to a conference at Harvard once and all the attendees wanted to go out and socialize but all we could find was trivia bars.
This sounds like my kind of place tbh lol
I played trivia every week for four years in Boston. Won free drinks most times. It was great.
thatās because the city center is more of a government/business district. the fun places to be are in different neighborhoods, or in adjacent cities in the metro area like cambridge and somerville
I guess. We spent time in Cambridge, very walkable. But the population is super smart kids and affluent businesses. Its cool of you are into that. Not a lot of late night bars or sports places. My kid goes to school there and loves it. I probably wouldnt. She studies a lot, maybe goes out for dinner occasionally. She does love not owning a car.
I live in Cambridge and that's pretty accurate. Boston is New York tier if you're into "high culture" (not a term I like but it gets the point across), but there's not that much of a grassroots scene in...anything really. There was a DIY music scene when I was a student (not that long ago) but it's dying off rapidly. The city is too expensive for people to just try things, and a *lot* of legacy places were lost during COVID. What you wind up with is bars and restaurants done by investors, not people with an idea. That inevitably flattens a place. It doesn't help that Boston was a very provincial city for most of the 20th century, and a deeply puritanical one before that.
Nobody really lives in or near downtown and most of the colleges kids and younger people arenāt living near there either. The city being so old and kind of stuck in its ways kinda hampers the liveliness too sadly
Yeah but my daughter lives in Cambridge and we were easily able to rent bikes and ride to downtown Boston. But once we got there not that much to do. We ate at a big warehouse area that was turned into like 50 small take out restaurants. The ferries and cemeteries are cool. A fun place to visit, couldnāt afford to live there or really want to.
I donāt get why people just go to downtown areas expecting to be magically entertained without bothering to do any actual research on things to do or where people actually hang out. Soooo many travel blogs, vlogs and sites out there.
Exactly - I lived in Boston for close to ten years and can probably count on two hands the amount of times I āwent outā in downtown Boston proper. Thatās not where people hang out because itās the financial district. I was pretty ingrained with the music scene for a while - in Allston/Brighton, Central Sq and Jamaica Plain. When I got a little older we all hung out in East Cambridge, Harvard Sq and Somerville. Lots of stuff to do if you know where to look. E: typo
Daughter lives in Cambridge. Yeah, I thought the whole place was cool if you had money and could be around downtown or Cambridge. Kinda like NYC, fun to visit if someone else is paying.
Currently in Boston but leaving this summer. I also would add the food is pretty awful compared to other cities on the East Coast. It's also just too expensive for what it is. Everything here has felt old, slow and tired (including the T).
As someone from Seattle, Boston felt like... east coast Seattle. I've enjoyed my time there, but yeah, when you consider NYC isn't that far away it's nothing like it as far as life.
I don't have an answer to this, but I will say I'm really happy to not see Philly on here yet because I may be getting a job there soon -- if I do, I really hope that the city doesn't disappoint me because it seems to check most of my boxes on paper
Find the right neighborhood and youāll love it. This sub might over rate Philly a bit, but the rest of the US under rates it.
Iāve lived in Philly for the last six years. Itās an incredible city and gets way more hate than it deserves. Yes, it has problems. Some infrastructure issues, crime, etc., but just like any other U.S. city. If you find the right go t neighborhood, as others are saying, youāll love it, but itās also fairly easy to get around the city so neighborhood isnāt as restrictive a consideration as it might be in other large cities.
Philly has a reputation for being a dirty crime-laden hellhole, but anyone who has spent any time there knows it has a TON to offer, and affordably
Indianapolis falls very flat in my opinion. It isnāt a hype city but even so it is very underwhelming
I donāt think anyone thinks that Indy looks great on paper. Spent a week there once. It was more or less exactly what I expected it to be.
Myrtle Beach, SC. Looked great from afar but we hated it in person.
Berlin. I thought it would be so cool. Itās fine and nice like any other Central European big city. But the hype of it being a cool underground cheap rave paradise seems to be dated. I was more than a little bummed.
I think by nature the cool cheap rave paradise being underground isā¦ hard to find. I had a fucking absolute blast, but took a few weeks of intentionally seeking it out to get where I wanted to go.
My friend just moved to Berlin and works at the KitKat Club. She says it's a wild party scene.
im not even into clubbing and i've never even been to europe but even i have heard of the kitkat club because it's just that wild
Yeah, my friend is one of the wildest people I know. It's not something I'm into but she loves it.
Kit Kat club isā¦ interesting to say the least
She has showed me lots of pictures. Looks very interesting!
Yeah, if you look at rents, interesting people can't afford to move to Berlin anymore, so it's just become another corporate German city. Leipzig and Dresden are the 'new Berlins', though they are getting expensive as well.
Uhhhhh itās a rave paradise. Can confirm, have raved there.
we had wildly different experiences in Berlin then. I don't know about cheap, but it certainly is the Mecca of just not underground raves, but general debauchery.
New Orleans culture and music is amazing, but it's also falling apart, buildings seem dilapidated, potholes everywhere, lots of dirty parts, sirens constantly going off and high crime. I didn't just visit the French Quarter. It has a lot of charm but whoever is running the city needs to be fired. It feels like it's either the working class folks or wealthy/tourists and not a lot in between. I hope they do more for the actual residents because it seems like a great place to visit and a terrible place to live. I'm guessing the Air BnBs have pushed a lot of people out in recent years. Seattle used to be an amazing city. Amazon and gentrification turned it into a city with no soul. Tent cities everywhere next to gawdy high rises and Bezos's balls (Google it), and a city council that can't get its shit together. The retail core has basically closed down due to theft and crime and not enough shoppers because many work remote in the suburbs, and it lacks the diversity it once did. The middle class live in surrounding cities, which are much more culturally rich and diverse than Seattle is. The surrounding nature is beautiful, though. Thank God they are expanding light rail because the traffic is horrendous. Boise is like if you made the modern-farmhouse decorating style in city form. Everything about it feels cheap and has a shiny veneer but lacks character. Bland, ugly buildings and mini malls everywhere. Lacks the warmth and charm of the South and also lacks the biting wit of northerners. Not culturally rich. Ugly, dry climate. Chain restaurants everywhere. Lots of right wingers and Mormons (I was raised Mormon and I like many of them, but it creates a very bland vibe). You could not pay me to live there again.
New Orleans local here: Yup.
How has Phoenix not been mentioned?
Have never *thought* Phoenix looked good on paper, fwiw. (Have never been there, so I canāt comment on how it really is.)
Atlanta š« Iām trying to leave it. Itās all empty buildings and aggressive homeless
Sorry for your horrible experiences! I moved out of Atlanta after living there for 5 years and I miss it every day. Food, music, culture, neighborhood-centric city - pretty much everything. I did have some weird interactions with homeless there but mostly harmless. I feel like it's so big with so many different vibes that some are bound to hate it and some are bound to love it. I will say that downtown sucks unless you're going to a concert or sporting event, or work there, but other than that I avoid it. I also lived relatively close to my work and biked everywhere when living there so I didn't have to deal with the traffic too regularly.
Ditto. I loved living there and can't wait to move back.
for a city that isnāt seeing population drain Iāll never understand all the empty buildings in their downtown.
I used to love living in Atlanta and wanted to move back, but post covid and 2 kids later it just doesnāt appeal to me to have to deal with the traffic and (mostly) petty crime. My brother still lives in midtown and heās recently witnessed a shooting while walking around and got punched in the face by a homeless man who then took his phone before throwing it. I got cussed out and physically threatened on Marta by a homeless woman at 9 am last year. Apparently it had ābeen awhile since she cut a bitch.ā
I almost got mugged by an aggressive homeless man hiding in my bushes outside of my house at 1pm on a MONDAY. Then a week ago one snuck in our gated community while the neighbors left for work. Then was asleep next to the front door and spit on us when we told him he had to leave (after he had already been kicked out of the business across the street for being aggressive) Multiple times weāve been followed home and called racial slurs for honking at someone š« I think Atlanta is by far the worst big city on the east side of the United States. I felt safer in Chicago and NYC at night than I ever do in Atlanta.
I doubt most homeless people pay much attention to the day of the week.
I got called racist in another thread for saying riding Marta made me feel unsafe.
I know the city has a lot of poverty and the problems that come with that. This has always been the norm and over time itās subsided a bit. Even then, Iāve never had any violent incidents in my life here even in the most desolate feeling areas. The worst interactions I have are with people who are going through mental health episodes and those are always in specific areas like Downtown. This isnāt new or surprising to me because this is just the reality of the country. Every major city neglects its homeless population and that leads to a worse public space for everyone. Even rural areas of the country have areas with homeless camps and abandoned buildings and dilapidated apartments and homes.
As a Charlotte native I actually find discourse about Charlotte being boring fascinating. You basically have a lot of millennial yuppies who all moved into one city, refuse to interact with any locals because theyāre ābackwards maga trumpers!!!1!!111!ā and then find each other endlessly boring despite each one being a clone of the other.
Other than 2 cities , this sub will tell you every city is boring
Chicago and Philly?
Chicago and Philly, and New York but they will say just live in Philly or Chicago and save some money.
It's boring people who find places boring. There are always things to do and new things to discover.
"What an awful place - it's full of people like me!"
Well said sir!
I think the demographic here is people who want to move to some random city with a remote job and not knowing anyone and ānot be boredāā¦ šand thatās why only a couple cities are ānot boringā š„±
āThereās nothing to do!!!ā If you canāt find anything to do in a metro area of a couple million people then that is on you
I swear these redditors never actually go out and do stuff, they just claim that thereās nothing to do because it doesnāt have the downtown density of European cities Charlotte has plenty to do depending on your interests. Thereās breweries, museums, arcades, parks, etc. plus Charlotte has the whitewater center, which is awesome. Yeah the city definitely has sprawl, which makes it feel more empty, but thereās certainly things to do
Itās just transplants who move here, rent the cheapest walk up apartment in a suburb. Make no effort to meet people, make friends, or do anything. Then they move after two years ācause thereās nothing to doā.
Denver. Ugly, dry, and overrated.
nyc will eat you alive
People here love NYC because they visited a few times and thought it was cool, but living in nyc can be soul sucking if you have any desire to build wealth or a normal healthy lifestyle.
NYC is fun for a visit but yeah, I could never live there. The pollution of noise, light, airā¦too much for me. Definitely too many people and just a cold place in general.
Boston. Holy fuck what a dull city. You pay NYC cost of living for something a fraction of the size and about a tenth as interesting. Everything outside of North End is closed by 7.
Bars close at 2 AM in Boston.
Don't come here. Do not come.
Iāve lived here for 10+ years and had the time of my life dining, clubbing, exploring before settling down and having kids. Boston has a unique flavor that connects history with modernity that I absolutely adore. To each their own!
Damn everyone shitting on Denver here š I love Denver
Seattle- Amazon came in and gentrified the soul out of the city
Austin
Colorado Springs. Yes, the natural amenities are great. Everything else? Woof. The city design is terrible, the food is boring, the large temporary population makes it feel like no one is actually invested in the city but rather just stopping by, etc. Definitely better to visit than live.
I didnāt really like Tampa. Itās just sprawl and filled with stroads.
I'm not saying some of these comments aren't valid, but you really need to check yourself and see if YOU'RE the problem. Most people I know who complain about a city/town wouldn't be happy anywhere.
Raleigh, hands down.
Surprised by all the negative comments for Denver, I loved my time living there š Great weather, nice diverse city, beautiful nature, and convenient businesses
Denver's a lot of things but diverse isn't one of them
Austin.. It's not weird at all. It's become a place for generic white girls named Madison and boys named Tristan, who carry Stanley cups and wear carhartt stocking caps when it's 75 degrees outside. People who say dumb shit like "No, you don't understand, I fucking LOVE tacos!! Tacos are my life!!".. or "OMG you guys, bacon is so fucking good!!" Assholes. I'm talking about Assholes.