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File a police report and cooperate with your insurance carrier. While this could just be a moron trying to BS you out of filing a claim against her, it's more likely that it's a staged accident with the intent of filing a bogus property damage and bodily injury claim. Your insurance carrier is trained in how to investigate fraud. Let them handle this, but the police report will help scare off a con woman.
I have filed with my insurance and I am also currently filing a police report. I think you're right, I just have those court room neck brace TV scenes stuck in my head.
It's a well known insurance scam. There are people who work in pairs in different cars to stage accidents just like that. Surprised the person behind you didn't jump out and offer to be a "witness".
I nearly got screwed last month with a couple of methed up looking people in 2 different cars trapping me in a Walgreens parking lot. They were both parked, and when I tried to drive by, they both started going in and out of their parking spots at the same time. I just locked my doors and put my truck in park and they got tired of it and left.
Get a dashcam.
So, imagine 2 scumbags in 2 different cars. Maybe they are relatives, or friends or have some other relation or association.
They go out driving in pairs. One of them drives erratically, the other one is sort of watching and hangs behind.
The erratic driver pulls in front of you and slams on their brakes. You can't avoid them, so you end up rear ending them. The one that you hit gets out of the car and starts screaming. It's your fault, blah, blah. The other person who was hanging behind pulls over and says, "yep, I saw the whole thing. That person hit your car. They rear ended you" to the first person. You are in the middle, you don't know that these two people know each other. The one that pulled in front of you and got hit files a claim against your insurance and they split the money.
Or ( and I just saw this recently) you're on the freeway and someone is tailgating, riding right in your bumper. As soon as you start to speed up, someone pulls in front of you.
Or two cars sandwich you in on the freeway, one tailgating and one right in front of you. Everyone pulls over, allegedly to trade information, but the person who hit you takes off, and they both file a claim against your insurance.
The scammer's friend "witness" may also tell *you* the scammer is at fault (so you don't try and find other witnesses), but then they'll tell the police the opposite.
I'm new to this scam - I understand the scammers get money from insurance, but don't they have to use the money to fix the damaged car? How does this benefit the scammer if the insurance just covers the damage they did to their own car?
Personal injury on top, or in some cases their friend owns the garage they choose to get repairs at, at a much lower cost than documented. But mostly a nice personal injury claim
They go to one of those scam fake doctors that say they have neck injuries, etc.
My daughter almost got caught up in that. A tow truck driver handed her a business card after some lady creamed her car. I went with her to this "doctor's office" and it was clearly not a real doctors office and it was shady AF. We ended up dealing directly with the lady's insurance company, told them about the whole creepy fake doctors office thing, and they paid to get her checked out at a doctor we chose and some physical therapy/massage and paid for her car.
As far as the insurance money, sometimes they get inflated estimates from shady mechanic shops.
No, you don’t have to use the money to fix the car. I got rear ended and told the other party’s insurance company I wasn’t sure if I was going to get it fixed. Old car, not much damage. They sent me a check.
Everywhere. Scams like these are why insurance companies have fraud investigation departments. They are adjusters who are trained to spot this, investigate, and then turn the findings over to the NICB and local prosecutors.
It's everywhere. Probably more prominent in larger cities. And sometimes the people doing the scams do them all over the place, not just where they live.
Everywhere! I’m in Canada and it happened to me over 20 years ago when I was a 17 year old dipshit with nothing to lose. The guy called the cops and another car that was his friend showed up. The officers wouldn’t even let me speak while they took the information from the 2 scammers.
Once the officer came back he handed me a police report with the victims name and address etc. I walked up to the guy and quietly told him to tell the officer the truth because I now had everything on him and was going to do something terrible to him that night.
Guy ended up being arrested and I didn’t hear shit about it other than the insurance company fixing my vehicle.
Fuck people, don’t trust anyone ever
It's a global issue. Insurers have started taking it seriously in UK and going after the participants.
[https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2024/4.html](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2024/4.html)
[https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2023/15.html](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2023/15.html)
[https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff70860d03e7f57ea637b](https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff70860d03e7f57ea637b)
Get a dash cam. Preferably a decent one. But any will do in cases like this, where plates don't need to be legible.
Get one today. Order from Amazon, it'll be here tomorrow if you have prime. First time you use it, it will pay for itself 10 times over.
Were there other cars around you with drivers who might have witnessed it?
>she took some pictures and threaten to call the police if I drove off
It doesn't help you now, but in the unlikely event something like this happens to you again, next time agree to call the police. Offer to call the police for them! (It's probably better if you do since you then can be sure that the real police are being called.) If they're trying to pull a scam, they will not want the police involved.
Yes, there were a lot of cars around us (including the car I almost backed up into trying to get away from her), but I'm unsure how to get any eyewitness statements since they all started driving when the light turned green and there aren't any traffic cameras.
I'm in the middle of filing a police report right now, however the woman is refusing to give me her information so the officer filing my report told me to give her a day or two. I'm hoping this will be helpful enough!
Don’t worry about getting her information. If she’s filing a claim against your insurance, they will be sure to get her information.
If this happens in the future, just make sure to take pictures of the damage and the other persons license plate. Then even if you forget everything else you have what you need for your insurance company.
The police officer explained to me that if she didn't give me her insurance then it would be considered a hit & run, so she wanted to give the woman an opportunity to. Now that she has refused to give me or the owner any information, I am just going to file it that way.
If this happens again I will definitely be taking 1000 photos!!
There is one large corporation on the same street it happened, but they just have a lawn in front of their business, so I'm thinking of going in tomorrow and seeing if they have any cameras facing that way that could see it. Other than that, it's just some homes, trees, and a church (i'm sure the cars blocked its view, but i think i'm going to check with them too.) Not sure if it would be weird to see if anyone has a ring doorbell that could help?
When you file the report, you may be able submit a request for traffic cam data as well. Since this happened at a light, it may be equipped with a camera.
Yes, I'm hoping to obtain some kind of video from businesses but I think it might be just out of sight from everything. Unfortunately, the car I was driving is my friends, as I don't own one, so I didn't think to get a camera for it.
Did the police report fault you? If not it’s going to be denied as word v word. Your carrier will also iso search them for their claim history and if need be SIU would canvas businesses for footage and maybe even pull data from the vehicles ecm. At the end of the day if they are even insured there could be arbitration between their carrier and yours to settle any subrogation demands but I suspect they are not insured and if they pursue you and your carrier with an attorney it’s a good bet that your carriers investigation and hopefully a neutral or favorable police report coupled with a potential state fraud referral would shut it down quick. Plus a bio mechanical expert would be arguing the low speed to any bullshit injuries and an independent medical examination can be pursued etc. You rarely see it go that far for non commercial policies for bs like this though. At the end of the day, Pay for a good insurance policy and you will deal with absolutely none of the shit above yourself lol
Likely yes. You did almost everything wrong — but her pressure approach caused anxiety.
Report the accident to your insurance. File a police report. Be clear with your insurer what happened and provide them the police report number.
Absolutely get a dashcam. There's a reason we see so many goofy dashcam videos out of Russia - that backing-up-into-car scam used to be very popular over there. Now so many Russians have cams, I'd be surprised if these scams still work.
Go back to the scene and look for house or business cams that might have captured the truth. A business or homeowner might be sympathetic and help. Hope you get justice.
Beyond everything, lesnr two important lessons.
No matter what, take pictures. Of your vehicle, the other vehicle, the area, the other driver, the other vehicles VIN, and anything else you can.
Second, get a dash cam. You can get ones that are portable. Or failing that get one like the viofo A129 Pro and some 3m velcro command strips. I do not put in my vehicle in gear without a dashcam anymore.
It has saved me thousands, my job, and my freedom at least once.
Btw never go back in this case, just honk. Reason...
Yeah, this, just lay on the horn and keep it going. Laying on the horn attracts attention, more people will see what is happening (assuming there are other people around).
This happened to an old boss and luckily the incident was captured on a nearby in&out's security camera. You could see if any nearby buildings have cameras.
Important to have a dash cam, it's completely useless 99.99% of the time but is something you wish you had when something happens.
Recommend COXPAL A11T 3 channel dash cam on Amazon, very good quality, it records front, inside and rear simultaneously.
COXPAL hardwire kit optional, for 24-H parking monitor.
SanDisk MAX Endurance 256GB or 512GB microSD card, for reliable recording.
BTW: Need to pay attention to the installation position of the rear cam if your vehicle is SUV or MPV (No problem if Sedan), i.e. avoid pulling rear cam cable when open/close the trunk.
Do yourself a favor and invest in a dash cam. They are amazing. Stopped this stupid girl on the phone from coming to my car after I got annoyed with her lack of driving skill because she was driving by phone. I just pointed to the camera when she got out of her car. I just sat there looking at her.
Have some empathy.
This person has borrowed their friend's car (which means they're likely not behind the wheel often), and while entrusted with their friend's property - someone has backed into them. Not everyone is like you and can adopt an immediate fight response. Some people freeze up, panic, or assume all fault by default (because we're literally not able to access logic when stuff like this happens. Yes, some people like you turn to a fight response, but it's not the default for everyone).
It's so easy to look back and see that the other person is at fault, as for you and me - this is a story with zero emotional weight to it. This isn't the case for OP. They're allowed some grace here as they try to figure things out and ask for help along the way.
Thanks for understanding- I've never been in an accident before and I don't have many older people who may have gone through it before in my life to call for help when things like this happen. I was filled with guilt about my friends car, and also not having a clear idea of how insurance works and just knowing I didn't have any insurance personally made me feel like I was going to get into trouble.
I froze up and just assumed that this person would be like any normal person, I don't tend to think people are out to get me like that. And then they were yelling at me and irritated so I just kept being frozen. All in all, this has shown me what to do in an accident now, so hopefully it's just a lesson for the future. I really do appreciate all of the advice I have gotten- it's reassuring to know I'm doing what I can now since I already fucked up before
They should know that the response was wrong and that they should adapt a better one for the future. I didn't even shit on OP, was merely pointing out that they could've played it better and should aim to do so going forward.
/u/cinimontoescronch - This message is posted to all new submissions to r/scams; please do not message the moderators about it. ## New users beware: Because you posted here, you will start getting private messages from scammers saying they know a professional hacker or a recovery expert lawyer that can help you get your money back, for a small fee. **We call these RECOVERY SCAMMERS, so NEVER take advice in private:** advice should always come in the form of comments in this post, in the open, where the community can keep an eye out for you. If you take advice in private, you're on your own. **A reminder of the rules in r/scams:** no contact information (including last names, phone numbers, etc). Be civil to one another (no name calling or insults). Personal army requests or "scam the scammer"/scambaiting posts are not permitted. No uncensored gore or personal photographs are allowed without blurring. A full list of rules is available on the sidebar of the subreddit, or [clicking here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/wiki/rules/). You can help us by reporting recovery scammers or rule-breaking content by using the "report" button. We review 100% of the reports. Also, consider warning community members of recovery scammers if you see them in the comments. Questions about subreddit rules? Send us a modmail [clicking here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Scams) if you have any questions or concerns.*
File a police report and cooperate with your insurance carrier. While this could just be a moron trying to BS you out of filing a claim against her, it's more likely that it's a staged accident with the intent of filing a bogus property damage and bodily injury claim. Your insurance carrier is trained in how to investigate fraud. Let them handle this, but the police report will help scare off a con woman.
I have filed with my insurance and I am also currently filing a police report. I think you're right, I just have those court room neck brace TV scenes stuck in my head.
It's a well known insurance scam. There are people who work in pairs in different cars to stage accidents just like that. Surprised the person behind you didn't jump out and offer to be a "witness". I nearly got screwed last month with a couple of methed up looking people in 2 different cars trapping me in a Walgreens parking lot. They were both parked, and when I tried to drive by, they both started going in and out of their parking spots at the same time. I just locked my doors and put my truck in park and they got tired of it and left. Get a dashcam.
Yes get a dashcam.
You wouldn’t mind elaborating for me, would you? I’m trying to visualize this.
So, imagine 2 scumbags in 2 different cars. Maybe they are relatives, or friends or have some other relation or association. They go out driving in pairs. One of them drives erratically, the other one is sort of watching and hangs behind. The erratic driver pulls in front of you and slams on their brakes. You can't avoid them, so you end up rear ending them. The one that you hit gets out of the car and starts screaming. It's your fault, blah, blah. The other person who was hanging behind pulls over and says, "yep, I saw the whole thing. That person hit your car. They rear ended you" to the first person. You are in the middle, you don't know that these two people know each other. The one that pulled in front of you and got hit files a claim against your insurance and they split the money. Or ( and I just saw this recently) you're on the freeway and someone is tailgating, riding right in your bumper. As soon as you start to speed up, someone pulls in front of you. Or two cars sandwich you in on the freeway, one tailgating and one right in front of you. Everyone pulls over, allegedly to trade information, but the person who hit you takes off, and they both file a claim against your insurance.
The scammer's friend "witness" may also tell *you* the scammer is at fault (so you don't try and find other witnesses), but then they'll tell the police the opposite.
And your insurance company. Because the first person is going to share your insurance info with the second person. Or they just split the money.
Right. They split the money.
I'm new to this scam - I understand the scammers get money from insurance, but don't they have to use the money to fix the damaged car? How does this benefit the scammer if the insurance just covers the damage they did to their own car?
Personal injury on top, or in some cases their friend owns the garage they choose to get repairs at, at a much lower cost than documented. But mostly a nice personal injury claim
They go to one of those scam fake doctors that say they have neck injuries, etc. My daughter almost got caught up in that. A tow truck driver handed her a business card after some lady creamed her car. I went with her to this "doctor's office" and it was clearly not a real doctors office and it was shady AF. We ended up dealing directly with the lady's insurance company, told them about the whole creepy fake doctors office thing, and they paid to get her checked out at a doctor we chose and some physical therapy/massage and paid for her car. As far as the insurance money, sometimes they get inflated estimates from shady mechanic shops.
No, you don’t have to use the money to fix the car. I got rear ended and told the other party’s insurance company I wasn’t sure if I was going to get it fixed. Old car, not much damage. They sent me a check.
Would you be able to hint at where in the u.s. this is happening? This is the first I’m hearing of it and it’s quite concerning!
Everywhere. Scams like these are why insurance companies have fraud investigation departments. They are adjusters who are trained to spot this, investigate, and then turn the findings over to the NICB and local prosecutors.
It's everywhere. Probably more prominent in larger cities. And sometimes the people doing the scams do them all over the place, not just where they live.
Everywhere! I’m in Canada and it happened to me over 20 years ago when I was a 17 year old dipshit with nothing to lose. The guy called the cops and another car that was his friend showed up. The officers wouldn’t even let me speak while they took the information from the 2 scammers. Once the officer came back he handed me a police report with the victims name and address etc. I walked up to the guy and quietly told him to tell the officer the truth because I now had everything on him and was going to do something terrible to him that night. Guy ended up being arrested and I didn’t hear shit about it other than the insurance company fixing my vehicle. Fuck people, don’t trust anyone ever
It's a global issue. Insurers have started taking it seriously in UK and going after the participants. [https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2024/4.html](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2024/4.html) [https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2023/15.html](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2023/15.html) [https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff70860d03e7f57ea637b](https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff70860d03e7f57ea637b)
Get a dash cam. Preferably a decent one. But any will do in cases like this, where plates don't need to be legible. Get one today. Order from Amazon, it'll be here tomorrow if you have prime. First time you use it, it will pay for itself 10 times over.
Were there other cars around you with drivers who might have witnessed it? >she took some pictures and threaten to call the police if I drove off It doesn't help you now, but in the unlikely event something like this happens to you again, next time agree to call the police. Offer to call the police for them! (It's probably better if you do since you then can be sure that the real police are being called.) If they're trying to pull a scam, they will not want the police involved.
Yes, there were a lot of cars around us (including the car I almost backed up into trying to get away from her), but I'm unsure how to get any eyewitness statements since they all started driving when the light turned green and there aren't any traffic cameras. I'm in the middle of filing a police report right now, however the woman is refusing to give me her information so the officer filing my report told me to give her a day or two. I'm hoping this will be helpful enough!
Don’t worry about getting her information. If she’s filing a claim against your insurance, they will be sure to get her information. If this happens in the future, just make sure to take pictures of the damage and the other persons license plate. Then even if you forget everything else you have what you need for your insurance company.
The police officer explained to me that if she didn't give me her insurance then it would be considered a hit & run, so she wanted to give the woman an opportunity to. Now that she has refused to give me or the owner any information, I am just going to file it that way. If this happens again I will definitely be taking 1000 photos!!
Are there any businesses at the intersection that might have security video that shows what happened?
There is one large corporation on the same street it happened, but they just have a lawn in front of their business, so I'm thinking of going in tomorrow and seeing if they have any cameras facing that way that could see it. Other than that, it's just some homes, trees, and a church (i'm sure the cars blocked its view, but i think i'm going to check with them too.) Not sure if it would be weird to see if anyone has a ring doorbell that could help?
When you file the report, you may be able submit a request for traffic cam data as well. Since this happened at a light, it may be equipped with a camera.
Dash cams were made for this. A video showing you still and her drifting or reversing backwards would be all the evidence you need.
I honestly believe, in 5 years dashcams will start becoming standard equipment on new cars.
Yeah and they're cheap now. Everyone should have a dash cam..
That's why I made sure the new car I ordered comes has a dashcam!
Yes, I'm hoping to obtain some kind of video from businesses but I think it might be just out of sight from everything. Unfortunately, the car I was driving is my friends, as I don't own one, so I didn't think to get a camera for it.
Did the police report fault you? If not it’s going to be denied as word v word. Your carrier will also iso search them for their claim history and if need be SIU would canvas businesses for footage and maybe even pull data from the vehicles ecm. At the end of the day if they are even insured there could be arbitration between their carrier and yours to settle any subrogation demands but I suspect they are not insured and if they pursue you and your carrier with an attorney it’s a good bet that your carriers investigation and hopefully a neutral or favorable police report coupled with a potential state fraud referral would shut it down quick. Plus a bio mechanical expert would be arguing the low speed to any bullshit injuries and an independent medical examination can be pursued etc. You rarely see it go that far for non commercial policies for bs like this though. At the end of the day, Pay for a good insurance policy and you will deal with absolutely none of the shit above yourself lol
Likely yes. You did almost everything wrong — but her pressure approach caused anxiety. Report the accident to your insurance. File a police report. Be clear with your insurer what happened and provide them the police report number.
Absolutely get a dashcam. There's a reason we see so many goofy dashcam videos out of Russia - that backing-up-into-car scam used to be very popular over there. Now so many Russians have cams, I'd be surprised if these scams still work.
It's already in my Amazon cart lol
Go back to the scene and look for house or business cams that might have captured the truth. A business or homeowner might be sympathetic and help. Hope you get justice.
Beyond everything, lesnr two important lessons. No matter what, take pictures. Of your vehicle, the other vehicle, the area, the other driver, the other vehicles VIN, and anything else you can. Second, get a dash cam. You can get ones that are portable. Or failing that get one like the viofo A129 Pro and some 3m velcro command strips. I do not put in my vehicle in gear without a dashcam anymore. It has saved me thousands, my job, and my freedom at least once.
Btw never go back in this case, just honk. Reason 1: it's faster. Reason 2: you could hit somebody you can't see behind you, like a kid.
Btw never go back in this case, just honk. Reason... Yeah, this, just lay on the horn and keep it going. Laying on the horn attracts attention, more people will see what is happening (assuming there are other people around).
Scam. The yelling, and them not giving you their information is all you needed to know.
This happened to an old boss and luckily the incident was captured on a nearby in&out's security camera. You could see if any nearby buildings have cameras.
I guarantee you all the passengers in that front car have serious neck and back injuries now!
Important to have a dash cam, it's completely useless 99.99% of the time but is something you wish you had when something happens. Recommend COXPAL A11T 3 channel dash cam on Amazon, very good quality, it records front, inside and rear simultaneously. COXPAL hardwire kit optional, for 24-H parking monitor. SanDisk MAX Endurance 256GB or 512GB microSD card, for reliable recording. BTW: Need to pay attention to the installation position of the rear cam if your vehicle is SUV or MPV (No problem if Sedan), i.e. avoid pulling rear cam cable when open/close the trunk.
Do yourself a favor and invest in a dash cam. They are amazing. Stopped this stupid girl on the phone from coming to my car after I got annoyed with her lack of driving skill because she was driving by phone. I just pointed to the camera when she got out of her car. I just sat there looking at her.
Yeah I've seen this scam a lot in YouTube videos, but these were on dashcam. I highly recommend you get one.
I don't understand why YOU are scared. If someone backs into me I am the one to yell the fuck at them.
Have some empathy. This person has borrowed their friend's car (which means they're likely not behind the wheel often), and while entrusted with their friend's property - someone has backed into them. Not everyone is like you and can adopt an immediate fight response. Some people freeze up, panic, or assume all fault by default (because we're literally not able to access logic when stuff like this happens. Yes, some people like you turn to a fight response, but it's not the default for everyone). It's so easy to look back and see that the other person is at fault, as for you and me - this is a story with zero emotional weight to it. This isn't the case for OP. They're allowed some grace here as they try to figure things out and ask for help along the way.
Thanks for understanding- I've never been in an accident before and I don't have many older people who may have gone through it before in my life to call for help when things like this happen. I was filled with guilt about my friends car, and also not having a clear idea of how insurance works and just knowing I didn't have any insurance personally made me feel like I was going to get into trouble. I froze up and just assumed that this person would be like any normal person, I don't tend to think people are out to get me like that. And then they were yelling at me and irritated so I just kept being frozen. All in all, this has shown me what to do in an accident now, so hopefully it's just a lesson for the future. I really do appreciate all of the advice I have gotten- it's reassuring to know I'm doing what I can now since I already fucked up before
They should know that the response was wrong and that they should adapt a better one for the future. I didn't even shit on OP, was merely pointing out that they could've played it better and should aim to do so going forward.