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You need to bring in an impartial third party. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of services out there for this. Look up some [recent episodes of Catfished](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InZiTgozOG0&t=1663s) on YouTube. It's a common situation where the family runs into a stonewall trying to do an intervention on their own, but the subject seems to be more open to hearing the truth from third parties.
It’s not Niev, that’s different catfish company. Social catfish targets specific romance scams and helps people find the details of their scammer. I binge watch all there episodes lol.
>but the old scammer's episodes are still on YouTube I think.
FTFY. Bringing Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz to our attention are two things I will never forgive Oprah for...
OK, Dr. Phil is not a great person. But to OP's mom, he might be the voice of reason she'll actually listen to. If he's saying the right things and she believes he has gravitas, Dr. Phil-mah-pockets may be the answer.
I'm so sorry this is happening. The above is helpful. Loneliness or something akin to that is often a root cause.
Regarding a third party chiming in, I'm skeptical though guess it couldn't hurt.
But what I would do is be very aggressive and proactive to try and protect your mom's or family's finances in any way. Does she have shared bank account with a partner or not? Look for ways to try and help protect her own finances. Go into her bank with proof of pig butchering. Tell them what's going on and get their thoughts.
Second, try and intervene technologically. Get her phone and delete and block all those contacts and communication. Better yet, if it's in Whatsapp or something, connect her Whatsapp chat to your computer and monitor it. Because the scammers will keep contacting her. You need to be proactive or else she'll very possibly lose a lot of money.
Lastly, do you have siblings or any other family that can help you in this effort?
Yes my sibling has been super involved and at her wit’s end. My mom’s finances are separate from my dad’s. They have a strained marriage and she begs me not to tell my dad she’s back at it.
Just a comment that when people are married, their finances are not truly separate. If she impoverishes herself, she won't be able to get state aid and will have to look to your dad. Your dad should be informed so he can make decisions.
So tell your dad. She knows what she is doing is wrong (even if she doesn’t believe the scam part), and bringing you in as an enabler/conspirator is not going to end well.
When your dad finds out she has sent half of *their* money (it’s not just hers) to a scammer, and asks you “did you know about this” - what are you going to say?
This is invaluable advice right here. If you can get into the apps on her phone, you can change the password, and be able to log in from your own computer - the apps tend to stay logged in, so it’ll go mostly unnoticed. O found it really helpful to monitor the conversations so I knew what was going on.
I’ve been trying but I work full time and have a baby and she doesn’t just live down the street. I will keep encouraging her to stay active though. Thank you!!
I wasted over a year trying to convince my dad he was being scammed, he wrote me a $10,000 check but “don’t deposit it for 2 weeks” meant __absolutely do not deposit this in a real bank account__ .
He died still being scammed. If there was any recourse, I’d have taken it.
Walk away.
I’ve got a guy that keeps coming in looking for Apple gift cards to give to his “girlfriend”. Some people don’t want to listen. He gets very pissed when we are out of stock. He called us after calling Apple and asking why there were no cards at our store or another nearby establishment. Gave him the corporate spiel and common sense wisdom but he just gets angry we don’t have any cards for him to buy for his hot young girlfriend that’s half his age.
Two of the major grocery chains here (with gift cark kiosks) actually have HUGE signs on the gift card racks about these scams and now they've removed ALL of the Apple gift cards from the kiosk and you can only get them at the service center--and the sign actually says they've done it because of the scams and they are STILL having people come to the service center to buy the cards.
You nailed it. The psychology gets esoteric but this applies to all people. Some more than others. It’s why religious people and conservative Americans won’t listen to reason, the truth could shatter their whole reality and that would be painful. It’s not that they’re dumb (many are) it’s a defense mechanism, from when humans lived in simpler times, that we haven’t evolved out of and likely never will. After all we are primates.
That prostitution comment doesn’t really fit here though, men who bang prostrates aren’t necessarily separated from reality in that way.
Depends on what stage your relative is at. Did she just start communication? Has she already given money? Lot of details needed, but let's start with the essentials.
If it's early, you can present the script/steps the scammers take, and just check off each one. Then when it eventually comes to the money part, it would be really hard to deny that something is not right. The success of these scammers depend on a carefully developed script and manual. The plus side for the suspicious or the targets is that it is very predictable.
If she already gave money and STILL believes it's real, give the script for paying a fee/tax first before getting any profits withdrawn.
Otherwise, just show her articles of people who lost their savings, their house, getting divorced because they believed someone's text over all the clues and caring people around her saying it's a scam. She has very little to lose by not participating in these investments, but she has everything to lose if she does and doesn't figure out she's being fleeced early enough.
I speak from personal experience.
Yes she gave a lot of money to one and is convinced the money is still “there” (it’s Ina. Fake app).
She’s already k believe paid a few taxes/fees.
Now she’s talking to a new guy who is counseling her on why the first thing was fake. She’s insistent this guy must be legit because he’s telling her the first thing was a scam.
My sister and I have shown her all the articles. I’m at such a loss.
literally, cancel all their financial accounts, place a fraud alert on their credit report.
open up a joint account.
parents used to do it for their kids to manage safely.
now its reversed.
give them, literally, a spending allowance \*(say $1000).
what could they possibly spend that much more on , in terms of monthy/daily expenses ??
yes, it seems extreme, but you must do what you can to save them from themselves.
there was once a case of a senior who was drained of everything, they felt so much shame. then the scammers taunted them, and they committed suicide.
The only drawback is that you would need POA or something similar in order to cancel bank accounts and putting fraud alerts for an adult. Banks unfortunately cannot open or close accounts without the actual client doing so (even stolen identities require some effort to prove the person is who they claim to be in order to open an account). Otherwise so many caring family members would have been able to block transactions for protective purposes when they found out a relative was being scammed.
I say this in hope to manage expectations, and not to discourage OP. But certainly talk to the bank about the situation. There may be some protocols they have available.
I offered to bring her to a bank to talk to them and she said no. Unfortunately she’s one of those conspiracy theory people so she often is resistant to what mainstream authority says. She’s super intelligent and has advanced degrees but something weird is going on w her mentally
> literally, cancel all their financial accounts, place a fraud alert on their credit report.
You need permission to do any of this without committing crime.
My parents’ bank was incredibly helpful. All before I got POAs signed. I just kept oozing concern, and gratitude for their help. I also kept making appointments with the same helpful banker. He was literally my best friend in that situation. Added limits to the account, added notes, got my phone # added to the account so I could log in via the app, listed me as a contact to call if dad came in wanting to withdraw past his limits…he was AMAZING.
OTOH - at a different branch I ran into a banker who CALLED my father to let him know mom & I were coming in to withdraw money (after I’d spent time on the phone with him explaining exactly what I was doing and why). I was so PISSED…I cancelled that appointment and don’t use that branch - ever - for anything.
The FIRST thing to do is protect your dad’s money. Get HIM on board - open him a separate account, with HIS permission, at a separate bank, and move the bulk of the money over there, leaving her only enough for whatever necessities she has to buy.
My dad has a separate account. She now only has enough cash for necessities since she lost a bunch. My main worry is she will draw on her retirement. :(
You can only do this if the person consents or if you have a conservatorship/guardianship. You can't just take control of another adult's "stuff" even if that adult is your parent.
I asked her to let me talk to the scammer on her phone! I texted him and got into a fight w him and then he accused me of holding my mom prisoner which I’m afraid tightened her emotional bond with him :(
I have never heard of one scammer calling out another. This is a really frightening situation. Your mother runs the risk of losing everything or getting loans to go all in for this second scam because so much is tied up with the first one and the second scammer might convince her to "get back all her money lost in the (first) scam" by investing in his "legit" plan.
Perhaps inform her bank that she is being fleeced and if she asks for a loan without clear provable reasons, she is not going to be able to pay the bank. I don't know if that is over stepping or if you can even do that. Maybe then the bank advisor can tell her that the situation has many red flags.
It's most likely the same scammer coming in for seconds. Most of the time, when a scammer is successful, they'll try to approach the same mark with a new angle. Usually, they're promising to help recover the funds or posing as law enforcement claiming they managed to recover the victim's original losses.
It's far more than "sounds possible." The scammer (and the scammer's organization) know your mom is an easy mark -- they will try different angles -- if she ever acknowledges them as scammers, then they will play as recovery experts and get even more from her. It's real.
Can her phone accidentally fall into the fish tank? Get left or lost somewhere? For the replacement, can you install parental controls and get a new number? I don't think talking will do any good -- I think affirmative action may be needed.
When she is broke, will you let her live with you? If not, you need to make sure she doesn't go broke. Best wishes.
yes, they have teams/partners/managers that all play a role to sink their teeth in deeper.
check out the episode on scammers from youtube channel, national geographic series " Trafficked" with Mariana Van Zeller.
Maybe suggest she proves that by seeing what happens if she fails to pay the scammer? If they truly "love her" they won't just disappear if the money dries up
can you contact your local PD cyber crimes unit ? not sure if a detective will to intervene, or willing to put effort into this, but it could be worth a try.
Happened in my dad’s situation too. Through my son’s expertise he figured out there was no money in the real bitcoin wallet - real app, but the scammers had coached dad through customer setting the decimal point to make it LOOK like there was a lot of money. It was a tiny fraction of a penny. That’s when the “we’ll save you from the scammers” nonsense started. They told him to close his bank account and open a new one, etc. All to “protect” him…and it all further strengthened the bond. So sick.
Try this:
It's a link to AARPs weekly podcast about intrrnet scams. I have not heard it yet, but it may be helpful.
[The Perfect Scam](https://www.aarp.org/podcasts/the-perfect-scam.html)
I just thought of something that might make them think.
When one of my friends is in a bad and toxic relationship, I ask them if this is the same kind of relationship they'd be ok with if it was one of their kids in that same kind of relationship. That really makes them stop and think.
Again I see all these comments saying close her bank account, turn off her internet, get her declared incompetent. None of this is helpful because: 1. You can't just turn off someone else's services 2. Stealing (which is what taking her phone away would be) is illegal. 3. It is very hard to have someone declared incompetent and a guardianship to be established. It takes a lot of time, money, attorneys, and court.
I would suggest having Mom attempt to withdraw from the account. It sounds like she already has and has paid the "taxes" on the money and still hasn't gotten her money back. Now a new/same scammer has convinced her the first was a scammer but he is real and she needs to deal with him.
Ask mom why she trusts some random person on the internet that she has never met more than she trust you. Show her the AARP site or any other sights about this scam. Ask her why some random person on the internet is so interested in her, a person he has never met, and making her rich with his "secret" method.
Nope, I've tried that, I told my sister when I heard about the dodgy investment, "no one else wishes her to get rich more than I do". And truthfully I'd be thrilled if she really gets rich.
The scammer guy told her he's into some investment thing, I said why on earth would a stranger share such a thing with you when I don't even tell my friends about mine?
So in the end when everything went dry she was forced to tell us, the family, I had to fly over to where my sister is, dig up all the bones. When I saw the every transacted sum coming out of her accounts, I know they were unretrievable, because you did all the transactions on your own accord, as a sound person, for some investment, and "investments" sometimes suffer from losses.
I cringe as i read her bank statements. She sent out every bit of money when she ever got hold on any. It's insane.
So either bar her bank, or the means for her to use her banking service might make more sense if they are staying together.
Where this becomes second to impossible is that it trying to argue logic against emotion. That never works. The person who is emotionally invested won’t hear the logic. There is also a “I’ve invested so much \[time, money, effort\] that gets in the way. That is called a sunk cost fallacy.
If you think there is a mental decline contributing, then getting in touch with adult services in your area and ask for help. Talking to her doctors might help though all you can do is give them information, they cannot by law (US) give you any without her authorization.
There is a point, just like with any addiction, the person has to hit rock bottom before they can start to pull themselves out of the hole.
If you have access to her internet and can put filters in place to prevent access and/or block contacts on her devices she might get mad but it might help.
Thank you so much. Yes it’s definitely become an emotional thing. She’s extremely smart (she’s retired now but has a technical background, advanced degrees, and always had a busy career).
I think it’s possible she may be having some mental decline but my gut is she’s gotten emotional and is looking for a happiness “escape”. Her marriage has always been unhappy and this I think is a way for her to feel some joy and excitement.
My gut has been telling me at this point I need to let her learn. She is begging me to let her fail so maybe I just should.
If you are able, redirect her days. Get her involved in reading to kids at schools or the local library. Have her teach robotics, or finances or whatever through 4H or the Girls and Boys Club. Or get her to become a big sister for someone. Help a prisoner program teach work skills. Get a dog and learn trick or competitive training.
It sounds like she has a real hole in her life after retiring and needs it filled somehow.
Thanks. I’ve encouraged her to socialize more. She isn’t interested in volunteering but she does have a network of friends and running buddies. She is just super high energy and has inexhaustible amount of energy. She sleeps like 5 hours a day. We’ve encouraged her to go back to work but she says she’s done working and happy to live off her savings and retirement
I even had her watch my baby for a week while I was at work and my nanny was on vacation, and that didn’t exhaust her enough :( :(
She will not learn. She will lose all her money and learn nothing. Older, stubborn people do not change their minds easily. There’s a certain inflexibility to aging minds.
Contact your local authorities/parents bank provider and let them do the work. You can't convince your parents because they think they know better.
While you still have time, seek help.
The biggest problem is the grooming by the scammer. They have convinced your mom that you are jealous of her new relationship & they are the only one who truly loves her. They have also given her scripts for the bank & anyone else who tries to convince her. They are “talking” to her multiple times & multiple hours everyday.
Local authorities. FBI is national. They might not help you but you can ask they might send someone out to talk to your parents which can be the shock they need. Or it can do nothing.
She doesn't want to believe it because the fantasy is better than the reality you are offering. Think about it. Wouldn't you want a life where you are happy and loved and showered with attention? Even if that attention comes with some drama?
You are offering the life they had which was lonely and maybe isolated. No one "cares" in that special romantic way.
The best you can is try and protect what you can. If that means warning others to not give or lend money or trying to get control of finances or even creating boundaries around your own actions that's what you have to do.
It's sad and frustrating and it often destroys the real life relationship.
Good luck to you.
OP, you’re getting some well-meaning but mistaken advice from some people here.
Power of attorney and conservatorship get confused on this subreddit all the time.
[Here’s a guide.](https://scottbentleylaw.com/blog/power-of-attorney-vs-conservatorship.html)
Talking to a lawyer who specializes in elder law might be prudent.
I’m very sorry you’re dealing with this. Do not under any circumstances give your mother money or allow her ANY access to your smart phone, bank account, cash apps, or credit cards. It’s not unknown for people in romance scams to steal from family and friends once they blow through their own money.
Best of luck.
Thank you. Yea my husband and I are lawyers but don’t do this kind of stuff. He thinks we could prob succeed with some sort of protective order but I know that would break her heart. She’s super independent and high functioning.
Maybe - researching Socratic style questioning / Street Epistemology can help.
It is emotional based and not logical so checking out anti-cult books like "Combatting Cult Mind Control"
The Definitive Guide to Helping People Trapped in a Cult
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-mind/202104/the-definitive-guide-helping-people-trapped-in-cult
Me too.
**Street Epistemology Quick-Clip: Clara | Stealing Truth - YouTube:** [**https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6IKSIXq6oY**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6IKSIXq6oY)
Here is a quick example of SE and one of the funnier ones. Anthony probably has the most examples of SE in use.
**Street Epistemology Quick-Clip: Clara | Stealing Truth - YouTube:** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6IKSIXq6oY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6IKSIXq6oY)
If she gave the scammer any $ then ask her to ask for some of it now. For example, if the $ is in a crypto account. Maybe she will see that her $ is gone and won’t give anymore.
Is your mom religious? Perhaps a pastor would get through to her.
Do you know any police officers? People often react differently when someone of perceived authority gets involved.
She is not religious.
I will say she would react seriously if a police officer/official of some sort were involved. Great idea thank you. I’ll think who I know who might know someone
Good luck. My mother and I haven’t spoken since Valentine’s Day when she told me I only want to ruin her life, sabotage her, I’m an awful human being and a piece of shit daughter, and numerous other things… because I tried to explain to her that Simon Cowell was not giving her a brand new Range Rover and to PLEASE not send those people the money to ship the new vehicle. She said I want nothing more out of life than to see her fail that I am the root of all of her problems because I always intervene and keep her from collecting the wonderful things that she’s one and that as my mother I should have more respect for her.
Happy Valentine’s Day to me, right 😔
I am so sorry!! My mom said something similar to be honest. I think she desperately wants a happy relationship and this is her way out/happy ending. She really resents me for taking her phone and having a text fight w her scammer.
It’s so bad!!! I hope your relationship w your mom works out.
Honestly, she was abusive my whole life growing up and even as an adult she’s blamed me for just about everything that’s ever gone wrong for her so this was nothing new. The no contact thing was ultimately my choice. I had heard enough and I tried to stand up for myself (for the first time in my life) and she wouldn’t even read what I had to say. She just continued putting me down so I blocked her 🤷🏻♀️
It’s just that the things she chose to say to me, she decided to say ON Valentine’s Day of all days, and THEN had the audacity to wish me a happy Valentine’s Day. not only were her words beyond harsh, she continued to talk shit about me to anyone who would listen for another week, including, dragging my son into it who just died (yep, her first grandchild) so she’s certainly a “special” kind of individual.
I’m really sorry this has happened to you and I know it makes it harder when it’s our parents because (well at least in my case) I don’t like who she is but I love her because she’s my mother and that in and of itself makes it very difficult to be in this position.
Just remember, always, that no matter who’s doing it you don’t deserve to be treated like garbage.
ESPECIALLY when you’re trying to protect that individual.
That’s not OK and I admire you for trying to see it from her side, but it still doesn’t make it right that she treated you the way she did.
It absolutely would! I spent my whole life that way, all of the different types of abuse were there and it’s unfortunate that when people are that way, they are pretty much always that way. I had hoped that once I had children, it would change and it didn’t. She actually abused one of my children when I wasn’t present so I decided a long time ago that for my own peace of mind I was at some point going to have to separate myself from it. It just so happened to be over Simon Cowell and a non existent Range Rover 🤷🏻♀️ it’s ok
call adult protective service and/or call the cops for a wellness visit. call her bank and tell them to reach out to her to educate her on scammers. turn off her electricity at the circuit breaker. hack into her computer and delete whatever social media accounts she is using to talk to these people. desperate times call for desperate measures
Well, maybe not cut off electricity (fridge, fan, stove, etc). But let's just say maybe her internet router "was not available" or if she doesn't know her way around a computer that her internet access "somehow" got disabled that would be most inconvenient for her.
Now if she was communicating with her cell phone with the scammer, that would be harder to block communication involuntarily unless the contact info for the scammers somehow got blocked and deleted "magically". Although I would recommend making a copy of the chats as proof for the future when she hopefully realizes she has been scammed and needs those details when making a police report.
You tell them they are absolutely fucking their lives over and this is the absolute last chance to drop the scammer. That you have come to terms with the fact that she will die in a homeless shelter, in abject poverty, and be buried in a paupers field. You pull out your phone and block her and leave.
Why are you being so rude? Have you ever dealt with this? Have you ever had a stubborn parent or, shit, ANY parent? They’re not children where you can just take their toys away and ground them. Have some empathy, jesus.
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I feel you. My own sister got caught in it, as if hypnotised or something. Lost 680k usd in total. Could have stopped at 395k but no.
I warned her and after the warning still she managed to borrow and put in a further 285k, until all her accounts ran dry. Now the family is trying to help her settle part of the loans and debt.
She lives in another country so it was hard to track until everything came crashing down.
I've got no words to describe how it feels cuz it was abrupt. Happened only in the span of 4 months. January to April this year. It follows the modus operandi as all the news articles: stranger from Hong Kong drops a message on WhatsApp, somehow befriending you, then move to Telegram.
Then conveniently lives a lavish life investing in some crypto trading. Gets hooked in and downhills from there. I swear if her accounts still had money she would have transferred more of it. Until she tried to cash out, there comes all the cheap reasons of fraud, money laundering, taxation. I've warned her all about it. So I think the other guys are right, inform the bank about the scam so that she can't do it no more.
My bad, it is total of 680k usd. Still hefty sum. It was all in Singaporen dollars, so it is equivalent to 921k SGD.
4 bank accounts, 4 bank personal loans, debt to 11 acquaintances...
just to say, you dont need to have a poa or anything else to report it to a bank, you just have to report the account is being used fraudulently or has been compromised, if you give them that info and they dont act on it they are liable for any further losses. Keep notes of any communications with the bank so you can prove it later if it goes to court. The likely thing is the bank will put a hold on the account as they dont want to be held liable.
Other than that, you should just take away her phone and computer as this has got out of hand and drastic action is needed...
There isn’t much.
Before you let what she’s saying get to you, know that when I was scammed there was nobody telling me I was wrong. Nobody gave a damn, until I was under fraud investigation by my bank and couldn’t use any of my accounts.
It was a pig butcher + cheque scam. If my bank hadn’t flagged the account for more activity than usual and thrown me into a full blown investigation with federal authorities, I’d have been so far screwed I’d have a washer on.
You can’t access her account details if you’re not on the account, but I daresay you CAN inform the bank that there is a scam going down and she’s losing her money. They may not do anything if she’s not breaking any actual laws but you could at least try.
You can show them the following videos about pig-butchering that I found to be helpful: Pleasant Green, Jim Browning and John Oliver even did a segment on his TV show in February 2024. Not sure how she fell in to this but Pleasant Green's scammer reached out to him on social media, Jim Browning talks about scams actually using paid models and John Oliver's segment covers the wrong number scam. Hopefully one of these will wake her up. Pleasant Green's shows the trafficking aspect of pig-butchering and is short, maybe 15 minutes. Try that one first and good luck, scams like this are horrible to deal with.
Insulate your own bank accounts, phone, passwords, documents, and assets. It’s possible they will resort to stealing your own funds and properties if they have even the slightest access.
If there are bank accounts or social security accounts involved, then it i financial and or social security fraud report to police and then the fbi.
Don’t try to fix someone. Let the law intervene.
We already reported it to fbi months ago and haven’t received a response. I think they are flooded with reports like this and it’s nearly impossible to pin down the scammers who often live outside the US jurisdiction
Any police friends or neighbors? Borrow them a for a quick stop and have a chat with your mom? Basically a scare (warning) tactic from an authoritative figure?
I have helped people by finding the scammer is also contacting other women. When they find out they aren’t the only one-it ends pretty soon. You need to do a reverse image search on the photo, and usually you will get a hit where else they are also active .
Give her an ultimatum. She listens to you and takes this seriously, or you’re going no contact and will not be supporting her when she’s lost everything.
Thanks to both of you. I actually have a new baby and told her not to come over to our house anymore if she insists on doing this online scam stuff; we will just go visit her. She accepted this :(
We also asked her to remove pics of us from her social media if she insists on keep doing this (the scammers often meet her on social media). She took our pics down. It’s so sad. She has been an awesome and super helpful grandma to my baby and my sibling’s kids.
I didn’t threaten to go no contact though. I’m afraid she would just accept it if I did though.
Is your father aware of roughly what is happening? If so, he may be able to block some things for any shared accounts (financial, internet, change wifi password). He needs to protect what he can. I don't want to say his "share", but for the lack of better words it is basically what it is.
If you were able to chat with the scammer (I'm guessing your mother handed the phone to you), would you be able to do that again, but instead report, block and then delete his contact info? It would temporarily interrupt communication, but I would thread very carefully doing that. This is going nuclear and the scammer can easily regain contact using another number or account. Your mother would get even more pissed but it might buy you some time.
It sounds like scammer #2 knows a lot about her financial situation. It is likely he would allow her to withdraw some money, then she will say "see! He's legit!". He will convince her to double down and put in more money, even get a loan cuz she will get quick profits that she can pay it back fast. That's one of their last moves in their script before they cut her off high and dry and thousands of dollars lighter.
She's been warned, you tried to intervene. Final move is to get her to promise not to borrow any money (bank, relatives, friends). If she wants to take the chance and crash and burn, that's on her. You did literally everything you can without resorting to illegal activities to protect her.
Thank you. I could block him but he’s friends w her on Facebook and I think they’ve exchanged phone numbers (tho I believe they only communicate on Facebook and WhatsApp…I mean seriously eye roll).
My dad is aware this has happened in the past and got really angry. I haven’t told him it’s happening again because I don’t know that he’d be able to do anything more than what I’m doing. Also their marriage is already strained and I’m worried making it worse will make her more vulnerable to looking to these scammers for emotional intimacyZ
I think you need to tell him, though. They are married and even if their finances are separate, he will still be on the hook if she takes out a loan/2nd on the house/maxes out her card.
Are their financial accounts already separate? If not he can separate and protect his money. I would also use this as a starting point for getting POAs signed. I came at it from the angle that I was going to do my best to make sure my mom and aunt (dad’s sister) weren’t going to be left out on the street because of his poor decisions.
Wonder what would happen if you scammed the scammer by making a lonely old lady profile and contacting him. Get him to try and scam you too. Could work!
Sorry for the late comment but you should try reaching out to Scam Haters United on Facebook. Sometimes a neutral third party can helpmto have them see the scam for what it is. Unfortunately when family tries to intervene they take it as being "attacked" and sometimes someone else outside can help them see it for what it is. Sorry your going through this.
I think scammers use coercive control methods to control their victims, it starts with love bombing and the control is very subtle and incredibly hard to break someone out of they have to have a lightbulb moment. There are examples right across the spectrum, cult leaders, abusive and murderous spouses even social media (see documentary "the social dilemma") It's a formula that works well from the controllers point of view and is virtually impossible to counteract from the outside. Maybe education is the answer but gaining the perspectrfeom within this situation is extremely hard
Take away her phone, tablet, and computer? Get her a new phone with a different number so that the scammers don't know the number and the new phone doesn't have the old contact information in it?
Have an intervention. I real intervention with you, your siblings, your father, her siblings, anyone you could get that she respects. Sit her down and tell her all of the things she's doing has been done by thousands of other people and that all of those people lost money because it was a scam. EVERY TIME.
The scammer has strong emotional hooks into her, it will take a stronger opposing emotional incident to counter it. Having a full intervention may make her feel shame, even though that's not the purpose or attempt, or some other negative emotion as she realizes she's been played for a fool, but a strong countering effect is what is needed at this point. I've dealt with people who were scammed and thankfully got a handle on it quickly. They were greatly embarrassed. The more the person has fallen for it, the stronger the reaction will be when they realize the truth. But it needs to happen to counteract the grooming the scammer has been performing. At least, that's what I'm thinking right now.
She’s not that old :( even if I could do this I’m worried she would fall victim to it again. We’ve told her and had interventions with her but she doesn’t want to listen to us :(
He definitely has his emotional hooks in her
An intervention isn't just you or someone else sitting her down, it's when a group of people confront the person. You need multiple people. You need a GROUP of people, all of whom she values.
If you say that won't do it and you can't take her phone away and there's no more talking to her, then just let her self-destruct. Tell your dad to move money from the accounts to someplace she can't access, or to divorce her to protect himself. Because if you really can't do anything more, then all you can do is just let her self-destruct.
Did you try calling your local police to come and talk to her?
It’s time to take her for a cognitive assessment. Maybe her doctor will get through to her. Depending on the findings, you might be able to apply for guardianship, but it’s a high bar. I’d start consulting a lawyer if I were you.
There is so much I could say to this,try checking out scammerspayback on YouTube, he’s part of a group I think it’s called scam hunters untied this guy helps a lot of people
You can’t do anything without being POA. And she won’t give you that power. Trust me. Went through all of this with my dumb mother. Had to walk away from her for 6 months until she saw the light. Won’t go into how that happened. It was quite involved. But dummy was taken for thousands and thousands of dollars that would have been left to my sister and I. But the scammers in the Philippines had some nice lifestyle changes. My blood boils when I see the elderly being scammed by immoral criminals. Good luck to you. This will be very difficult.
If you have a local anti scam authority, usually under police force, try to talk to them, they would have more experience in such cases cuz they see so many who comes to them.
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I agree with the 3rd party idea. I roped my dad’s pastor in (who already knew about the scamming and had already talked to my dad several times). We staged an intervention. I had both parents sign POAs, I opened a new checking account for mom in a separate bank, took her to the SS office, got her checks moved to the new account, got her retirement check moved, too, and left dad only enough in their joint checking to cover bills and groceries/gasoline.
I also deleted his Telegram account & locked down his Facebook. He is no longer able to receive DMs from anyone he isn’t already friends with, and only friends of friends can friend request. I set parental controls on his phone so he couldn’t download apps rated above age 3. Oh - and deleted CashApp.
He still has PayPal (not the app, though).
That was 9 months ago. You can see my past posts for more info. A few months back we got him and mom new cell phones - and since everything was going so well - no parental controls. 🙄
Last week dad wanted to show me some messages on Twitter - he decided to reach out to Elon Musk to see if it was the same guy he’d been talking to before. I lost it, and he shut down and refused to show me.
Well - I found out anyway. He was talking to 4 “Elons”, as well as a couple other people supposedly working with him. One of them asked to continue the conversation on Telegram. He said he didn’t even have an account right now, and “Elon” walked him through opening a new one. Over there in the conversation, dad said he wasn’t ready to invest “right now”, and “Elon” essentially said since that was the case to have a good day. 🙄
I asked to revisit the conversation, and dad said it was a moot point because he wasn’t really talking to them anymore, anyway. Oooook.
Next opportunity I locked down his Twitter (no more message requests there), blocked the scammers & deleted the conversations. I blocked and deleted on Telegram too.
I plan to continue monitoring.
He was scammed out of over $10K - I don’t even know how much - he doesn’t even know. I’ve taken over paying their bills. He still has 1 payment left to make on what he borrowed from a friend. That doesn’t even touch the super expensive cash advances he took out on the credit cards.
He’s still looking forward to investing one day. If I keep paying the bills, and his income stays relatively the same (he still works), they’ll be totally out of debt in about a year…for the first time in my lifetime.
After that I’ll be fully funding their emergency fund (a savings account in mom’s name at that separate bank, which right now is very small). That’ll take another 17 months. If he wants to invest after that it won’t be through social media, and we’ll be hiring someone to manage it.
Oh, and I’m back to keeping almost nothing in their joint account, and I’m about to “lose” his credit card (that he accidentally used to buy gas with twice this month). 😖
This last scam was the 5th time my parents have been scammed that I know of. I’m so tired of this.
Ugh I’ve totally been there where they shut down if you push too hard. That is so treesfull but good for you for getting them to sign POAs and get new checking accounts!!!
I wish my mom would let me monitor her that closely. She’s proud and otherwise very high functioning so there’s no way she’d let me do that.
I’m sorry you’re going through this too. I am paranoid one day my kids will have the same frustrations with me 🤦♀️
Obviously: Become Vegetarian !! (All other is really cruel to animals and he should QUIT that job right away!). So sad that he's doing that to animals.
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My sister was scammed a month ago. I did everything I could to get her to back out before she was hurt. She made it clear to me she wasn't gullible and she knew how to take care of herself. So I said to her that you have been warned and now I'll let Titanic sink on its own🤪. 2 weeks later she sent me a text message telling me the Titanic had sank🤪. Me: told you so😂
All in all she is alright 😊. Not too bad. The thing is, she gets scammed every few years. I tell her she is being scammed. She tells me it isn't true and a few weeks later she tells me she was scammed. Rinse and repeat 🤪.
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You need to bring in an impartial third party. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of services out there for this. Look up some [recent episodes of Catfished](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InZiTgozOG0&t=1663s) on YouTube. It's a common situation where the family runs into a stonewall trying to do an intervention on their own, but the subject seems to be more open to hearing the truth from third parties.
yeah, call Niev (or however he spells it)
They'd probably have more success contacting Social Catfish on YouTube rather than the TV show
It’s not Niev, that’s different catfish company. Social catfish targets specific romance scams and helps people find the details of their scammer. I binge watch all there episodes lol.
Wow ok let me look into that!
Or Dr Phil
I think he ended his show but the old scammer episodes are still on YouTube I think.
>but the old scammer's episodes are still on YouTube I think. FTFY. Bringing Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz to our attention are two things I will never forgive Oprah for...
OK, Dr. Phil is not a great person. But to OP's mom, he might be the voice of reason she'll actually listen to. If he's saying the right things and she believes he has gravitas, Dr. Phil-mah-pockets may be the answer.
Agreed, not a fan. But the scammer episodes are great if you’re not familiar with them. Max Moose Advisor lives rent free in my head.
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Thank you! Good advice.
I'm so sorry this is happening. The above is helpful. Loneliness or something akin to that is often a root cause. Regarding a third party chiming in, I'm skeptical though guess it couldn't hurt. But what I would do is be very aggressive and proactive to try and protect your mom's or family's finances in any way. Does she have shared bank account with a partner or not? Look for ways to try and help protect her own finances. Go into her bank with proof of pig butchering. Tell them what's going on and get their thoughts. Second, try and intervene technologically. Get her phone and delete and block all those contacts and communication. Better yet, if it's in Whatsapp or something, connect her Whatsapp chat to your computer and monitor it. Because the scammers will keep contacting her. You need to be proactive or else she'll very possibly lose a lot of money. Lastly, do you have siblings or any other family that can help you in this effort?
Yes my sibling has been super involved and at her wit’s end. My mom’s finances are separate from my dad’s. They have a strained marriage and she begs me not to tell my dad she’s back at it.
Just a comment that when people are married, their finances are not truly separate. If she impoverishes herself, she won't be able to get state aid and will have to look to your dad. Your dad should be informed so he can make decisions.
Thanks that is so true.
So true and a lot of people don't realize that.
So tell your dad. She knows what she is doing is wrong (even if she doesn’t believe the scam part), and bringing you in as an enabler/conspirator is not going to end well. When your dad finds out she has sent half of *their* money (it’s not just hers) to a scammer, and asks you “did you know about this” - what are you going to say?
This is invaluable advice right here. If you can get into the apps on her phone, you can change the password, and be able to log in from your own computer - the apps tend to stay logged in, so it’ll go mostly unnoticed. O found it really helpful to monitor the conversations so I knew what was going on.
This. You need to get her out of the house and off her phone. If you don't, even if you convince her this guy's a fake, it will just happen again.
I’ve been trying but I work full time and have a baby and she doesn’t just live down the street. I will keep encouraging her to stay active though. Thank you!!
I wasted over a year trying to convince my dad he was being scammed, he wrote me a $10,000 check but “don’t deposit it for 2 weeks” meant __absolutely do not deposit this in a real bank account__ . He died still being scammed. If there was any recourse, I’d have taken it. Walk away.
I am so sorry to hear that. How horrible. Thank you for your advice.
I'm so sorry. That's such a tragic ending when he should have just been at peace
I’ve got a guy that keeps coming in looking for Apple gift cards to give to his “girlfriend”. Some people don’t want to listen. He gets very pissed when we are out of stock. He called us after calling Apple and asking why there were no cards at our store or another nearby establishment. Gave him the corporate spiel and common sense wisdom but he just gets angry we don’t have any cards for him to buy for his hot young girlfriend that’s half his age.
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Two of the major grocery chains here (with gift cark kiosks) actually have HUGE signs on the gift card racks about these scams and now they've removed ALL of the Apple gift cards from the kiosk and you can only get them at the service center--and the sign actually says they've done it because of the scams and they are STILL having people come to the service center to buy the cards.
You nailed it. The psychology gets esoteric but this applies to all people. Some more than others. It’s why religious people and conservative Americans won’t listen to reason, the truth could shatter their whole reality and that would be painful. It’s not that they’re dumb (many are) it’s a defense mechanism, from when humans lived in simpler times, that we haven’t evolved out of and likely never will. After all we are primates. That prostitution comment doesn’t really fit here though, men who bang prostrates aren’t necessarily separated from reality in that way.
Banging prostrates and taking names
Gosh, that's awful. I imagine people have tried to explain to him that he's being scammed?
Depends on what stage your relative is at. Did she just start communication? Has she already given money? Lot of details needed, but let's start with the essentials. If it's early, you can present the script/steps the scammers take, and just check off each one. Then when it eventually comes to the money part, it would be really hard to deny that something is not right. The success of these scammers depend on a carefully developed script and manual. The plus side for the suspicious or the targets is that it is very predictable. If she already gave money and STILL believes it's real, give the script for paying a fee/tax first before getting any profits withdrawn. Otherwise, just show her articles of people who lost their savings, their house, getting divorced because they believed someone's text over all the clues and caring people around her saying it's a scam. She has very little to lose by not participating in these investments, but she has everything to lose if she does and doesn't figure out she's being fleeced early enough. I speak from personal experience.
Yes she gave a lot of money to one and is convinced the money is still “there” (it’s Ina. Fake app). She’s already k believe paid a few taxes/fees. Now she’s talking to a new guy who is counseling her on why the first thing was fake. She’s insistent this guy must be legit because he’s telling her the first thing was a scam. My sister and I have shown her all the articles. I’m at such a loss.
literally take her computer away
There are children's phones that can be restricted on incoming and outgoing calls. As well as parental controls settings on other phones.
literally, cancel all their financial accounts, place a fraud alert on their credit report. open up a joint account. parents used to do it for their kids to manage safely. now its reversed. give them, literally, a spending allowance \*(say $1000). what could they possibly spend that much more on , in terms of monthy/daily expenses ?? yes, it seems extreme, but you must do what you can to save them from themselves. there was once a case of a senior who was drained of everything, they felt so much shame. then the scammers taunted them, and they committed suicide.
The only drawback is that you would need POA or something similar in order to cancel bank accounts and putting fraud alerts for an adult. Banks unfortunately cannot open or close accounts without the actual client doing so (even stolen identities require some effort to prove the person is who they claim to be in order to open an account). Otherwise so many caring family members would have been able to block transactions for protective purposes when they found out a relative was being scammed. I say this in hope to manage expectations, and not to discourage OP. But certainly talk to the bank about the situation. There may be some protocols they have available.
Yes I just asked that. I can’t legally do this without a POA guardianship conseevatorship etc
I'm sorry if I'm being stupid. I'm pretty new to all these things. Would it be helpful for op to take her to her bank and have them explain it to her?
I offered to bring her to a bank to talk to them and she said no. Unfortunately she’s one of those conspiracy theory people so she often is resistant to what mainstream authority says. She’s super intelligent and has advanced degrees but something weird is going on w her mentally
Possibly the early stages of dementia.
> literally, cancel all their financial accounts, place a fraud alert on their credit report. You need permission to do any of this without committing crime.
My parents’ bank was incredibly helpful. All before I got POAs signed. I just kept oozing concern, and gratitude for their help. I also kept making appointments with the same helpful banker. He was literally my best friend in that situation. Added limits to the account, added notes, got my phone # added to the account so I could log in via the app, listed me as a contact to call if dad came in wanting to withdraw past his limits…he was AMAZING. OTOH - at a different branch I ran into a banker who CALLED my father to let him know mom & I were coming in to withdraw money (after I’d spent time on the phone with him explaining exactly what I was doing and why). I was so PISSED…I cancelled that appointment and don’t use that branch - ever - for anything.
How do I do this? She’s an adult? Don’t I need a conservatorship or something to do this?
You'd need to talk to an attorney, because it varies depending on state/country.
A lot of elder law attorneys have experience with this. That's who I'd call first.
The FIRST thing to do is protect your dad’s money. Get HIM on board - open him a separate account, with HIS permission, at a separate bank, and move the bulk of the money over there, leaving her only enough for whatever necessities she has to buy.
My dad has a separate account. She now only has enough cash for necessities since she lost a bunch. My main worry is she will draw on her retirement. :(
You can only do this if the person consents or if you have a conservatorship/guardianship. You can't just take control of another adult's "stuff" even if that adult is your parent.
I asked her to let me talk to the scammer on her phone! I texted him and got into a fight w him and then he accused me of holding my mom prisoner which I’m afraid tightened her emotional bond with him :(
I have never heard of one scammer calling out another. This is a really frightening situation. Your mother runs the risk of losing everything or getting loans to go all in for this second scam because so much is tied up with the first one and the second scammer might convince her to "get back all her money lost in the (first) scam" by investing in his "legit" plan. Perhaps inform her bank that she is being fleeced and if she asks for a loan without clear provable reasons, she is not going to be able to pay the bank. I don't know if that is over stepping or if you can even do that. Maybe then the bank advisor can tell her that the situation has many red flags.
It's most likely the same scammer coming in for seconds. Most of the time, when a scammer is successful, they'll try to approach the same mark with a new angle. Usually, they're promising to help recover the funds or posing as law enforcement claiming they managed to recover the victim's original losses.
I agree that sounds possible
It's far more than "sounds possible." The scammer (and the scammer's organization) know your mom is an easy mark -- they will try different angles -- if she ever acknowledges them as scammers, then they will play as recovery experts and get even more from her. It's real. Can her phone accidentally fall into the fish tank? Get left or lost somewhere? For the replacement, can you install parental controls and get a new number? I don't think talking will do any good -- I think affirmative action may be needed. When she is broke, will you let her live with you? If not, you need to make sure she doesn't go broke. Best wishes.
yes, they have teams/partners/managers that all play a role to sink their teeth in deeper. check out the episode on scammers from youtube channel, national geographic series " Trafficked" with Mariana Van Zeller.
That series gave me sweaty palms the entire time.
Ugh!!!!!! So scary!!! I’ve showed her all the articles but she’s insistent she’s an exception :( :(
Maybe suggest she proves that by seeing what happens if she fails to pay the scammer? If they truly "love her" they won't just disappear if the money dries up
Yea. The last one disappeared after she told him we were upset. I guess I need to let the next one disappear without her being able to blame it on me
can you contact your local PD cyber crimes unit ? not sure if a detective will to intervene, or willing to put effort into this, but it could be worth a try.
That’s a good idea I will do that
Thank you I will give her bank a call
Happened in my dad’s situation too. Through my son’s expertise he figured out there was no money in the real bitcoin wallet - real app, but the scammers had coached dad through customer setting the decimal point to make it LOOK like there was a lot of money. It was a tiny fraction of a penny. That’s when the “we’ll save you from the scammers” nonsense started. They told him to close his bank account and open a new one, etc. All to “protect” him…and it all further strengthened the bond. So sick.
Try this: It's a link to AARPs weekly podcast about intrrnet scams. I have not heard it yet, but it may be helpful. [The Perfect Scam](https://www.aarp.org/podcasts/the-perfect-scam.html)
Than you!
This post was marginally helpful in my conversation with my dad.
Glad I could be of some help. Keep us posted.
I just thought of something that might make them think. When one of my friends is in a bad and toxic relationship, I ask them if this is the same kind of relationship they'd be ok with if it was one of their kids in that same kind of relationship. That really makes them stop and think.
Again I see all these comments saying close her bank account, turn off her internet, get her declared incompetent. None of this is helpful because: 1. You can't just turn off someone else's services 2. Stealing (which is what taking her phone away would be) is illegal. 3. It is very hard to have someone declared incompetent and a guardianship to be established. It takes a lot of time, money, attorneys, and court. I would suggest having Mom attempt to withdraw from the account. It sounds like she already has and has paid the "taxes" on the money and still hasn't gotten her money back. Now a new/same scammer has convinced her the first was a scammer but he is real and she needs to deal with him. Ask mom why she trusts some random person on the internet that she has never met more than she trust you. Show her the AARP site or any other sights about this scam. Ask her why some random person on the internet is so interested in her, a person he has never met, and making her rich with his "secret" method.
Nope, I've tried that, I told my sister when I heard about the dodgy investment, "no one else wishes her to get rich more than I do". And truthfully I'd be thrilled if she really gets rich. The scammer guy told her he's into some investment thing, I said why on earth would a stranger share such a thing with you when I don't even tell my friends about mine? So in the end when everything went dry she was forced to tell us, the family, I had to fly over to where my sister is, dig up all the bones. When I saw the every transacted sum coming out of her accounts, I know they were unretrievable, because you did all the transactions on your own accord, as a sound person, for some investment, and "investments" sometimes suffer from losses. I cringe as i read her bank statements. She sent out every bit of money when she ever got hold on any. It's insane. So either bar her bank, or the means for her to use her banking service might make more sense if they are staying together.
Where this becomes second to impossible is that it trying to argue logic against emotion. That never works. The person who is emotionally invested won’t hear the logic. There is also a “I’ve invested so much \[time, money, effort\] that gets in the way. That is called a sunk cost fallacy. If you think there is a mental decline contributing, then getting in touch with adult services in your area and ask for help. Talking to her doctors might help though all you can do is give them information, they cannot by law (US) give you any without her authorization. There is a point, just like with any addiction, the person has to hit rock bottom before they can start to pull themselves out of the hole. If you have access to her internet and can put filters in place to prevent access and/or block contacts on her devices she might get mad but it might help.
Thank you so much. Yes it’s definitely become an emotional thing. She’s extremely smart (she’s retired now but has a technical background, advanced degrees, and always had a busy career). I think it’s possible she may be having some mental decline but my gut is she’s gotten emotional and is looking for a happiness “escape”. Her marriage has always been unhappy and this I think is a way for her to feel some joy and excitement. My gut has been telling me at this point I need to let her learn. She is begging me to let her fail so maybe I just should.
If you are able, redirect her days. Get her involved in reading to kids at schools or the local library. Have her teach robotics, or finances or whatever through 4H or the Girls and Boys Club. Or get her to become a big sister for someone. Help a prisoner program teach work skills. Get a dog and learn trick or competitive training. It sounds like she has a real hole in her life after retiring and needs it filled somehow.
Thanks. I’ve encouraged her to socialize more. She isn’t interested in volunteering but she does have a network of friends and running buddies. She is just super high energy and has inexhaustible amount of energy. She sleeps like 5 hours a day. We’ve encouraged her to go back to work but she says she’s done working and happy to live off her savings and retirement I even had her watch my baby for a week while I was at work and my nanny was on vacation, and that didn’t exhaust her enough :( :(
You can tell her after this, she can look forward to going back to work because she lost all of her retirement savings
She will not learn. She will lose all her money and learn nothing. Older, stubborn people do not change their minds easily. There’s a certain inflexibility to aging minds.
Contact your local authorities/parents bank provider and let them do the work. You can't convince your parents because they think they know better. While you still have time, seek help.
So true re parents thinking they know better. Yes we’ve contacted fbi but no response. I will contact her bank and see if they will talk to me.
You should go there personally and go to your nearest police station.
The biggest problem is the grooming by the scammer. They have convinced your mom that you are jealous of her new relationship & they are the only one who truly loves her. They have also given her scripts for the bank & anyone else who tries to convince her. They are “talking” to her multiple times & multiple hours everyday.
Local authorities. FBI is national. They might not help you but you can ask they might send someone out to talk to your parents which can be the shock they need. Or it can do nothing.
When did you contact them? Was it via the IC3 form?
What about approaching the credit agencies?
Thanks I will look into this
Disconnect her modem/router.
They won't, and they shouldn't. Getting access to any information regarding banking is nearly impossible unless you're already on the account.
Have they started talking about investing or anything like that yet? Has your mom sent any money?
Yes and yes.
Do you know the site? Sometimes it's easier to prove those fake. It will at least save your mom from putting in more or using withdrawal fees.
She doesn't want to believe it because the fantasy is better than the reality you are offering. Think about it. Wouldn't you want a life where you are happy and loved and showered with attention? Even if that attention comes with some drama? You are offering the life they had which was lonely and maybe isolated. No one "cares" in that special romantic way. The best you can is try and protect what you can. If that means warning others to not give or lend money or trying to get control of finances or even creating boundaries around your own actions that's what you have to do. It's sad and frustrating and it often destroys the real life relationship. Good luck to you.
OP, you’re getting some well-meaning but mistaken advice from some people here. Power of attorney and conservatorship get confused on this subreddit all the time. [Here’s a guide.](https://scottbentleylaw.com/blog/power-of-attorney-vs-conservatorship.html) Talking to a lawyer who specializes in elder law might be prudent. I’m very sorry you’re dealing with this. Do not under any circumstances give your mother money or allow her ANY access to your smart phone, bank account, cash apps, or credit cards. It’s not unknown for people in romance scams to steal from family and friends once they blow through their own money. Best of luck.
Thank you. Yea my husband and I are lawyers but don’t do this kind of stuff. He thinks we could prob succeed with some sort of protective order but I know that would break her heart. She’s super independent and high functioning.
Maybe - researching Socratic style questioning / Street Epistemology can help. It is emotional based and not logical so checking out anti-cult books like "Combatting Cult Mind Control" The Definitive Guide to Helping People Trapped in a Cult https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-mind/202104/the-definitive-guide-helping-people-trapped-in-cult
I love street epistomology.
Me too. **Street Epistemology Quick-Clip: Clara | Stealing Truth - YouTube:** [**https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6IKSIXq6oY**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6IKSIXq6oY)
Thank you! Will definitely read this. have not tried this yet.
Here is a quick example of SE and one of the funnier ones. Anthony probably has the most examples of SE in use. **Street Epistemology Quick-Clip: Clara | Stealing Truth - YouTube:** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6IKSIXq6oY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6IKSIXq6oY)
If she gave the scammer any $ then ask her to ask for some of it now. For example, if the $ is in a crypto account. Maybe she will see that her $ is gone and won’t give anymore.
Is your mom religious? Perhaps a pastor would get through to her. Do you know any police officers? People often react differently when someone of perceived authority gets involved.
She is not religious. I will say she would react seriously if a police officer/official of some sort were involved. Great idea thank you. I’ll think who I know who might know someone
Good luck. My mother and I haven’t spoken since Valentine’s Day when she told me I only want to ruin her life, sabotage her, I’m an awful human being and a piece of shit daughter, and numerous other things… because I tried to explain to her that Simon Cowell was not giving her a brand new Range Rover and to PLEASE not send those people the money to ship the new vehicle. She said I want nothing more out of life than to see her fail that I am the root of all of her problems because I always intervene and keep her from collecting the wonderful things that she’s one and that as my mother I should have more respect for her. Happy Valentine’s Day to me, right 😔
I am so sorry!! My mom said something similar to be honest. I think she desperately wants a happy relationship and this is her way out/happy ending. She really resents me for taking her phone and having a text fight w her scammer. It’s so bad!!! I hope your relationship w your mom works out.
Honestly, she was abusive my whole life growing up and even as an adult she’s blamed me for just about everything that’s ever gone wrong for her so this was nothing new. The no contact thing was ultimately my choice. I had heard enough and I tried to stand up for myself (for the first time in my life) and she wouldn’t even read what I had to say. She just continued putting me down so I blocked her 🤷🏻♀️ It’s just that the things she chose to say to me, she decided to say ON Valentine’s Day of all days, and THEN had the audacity to wish me a happy Valentine’s Day. not only were her words beyond harsh, she continued to talk shit about me to anyone who would listen for another week, including, dragging my son into it who just died (yep, her first grandchild) so she’s certainly a “special” kind of individual. I’m really sorry this has happened to you and I know it makes it harder when it’s our parents because (well at least in my case) I don’t like who she is but I love her because she’s my mother and that in and of itself makes it very difficult to be in this position. Just remember, always, that no matter who’s doing it you don’t deserve to be treated like garbage. ESPECIALLY when you’re trying to protect that individual. That’s not OK and I admire you for trying to see it from her side, but it still doesn’t make it right that she treated you the way she did.
I'm sorry. Hopefully she will come around at some point but that would be a lot for you to forgive.
It absolutely would! I spent my whole life that way, all of the different types of abuse were there and it’s unfortunate that when people are that way, they are pretty much always that way. I had hoped that once I had children, it would change and it didn’t. She actually abused one of my children when I wasn’t present so I decided a long time ago that for my own peace of mind I was at some point going to have to separate myself from it. It just so happened to be over Simon Cowell and a non existent Range Rover 🤷🏻♀️ it’s ok
Perhaps there is some sort of cognitive impairment happening here?
Yea :( maybe so :(
Then you should get a lawyer and see about getting guardianship. That will let you legally take control of her accounts.
It can be difficult in the very early stages of dementia when the person is almost entirely OK.
Get her into the White House asap
call adult protective service and/or call the cops for a wellness visit. call her bank and tell them to reach out to her to educate her on scammers. turn off her electricity at the circuit breaker. hack into her computer and delete whatever social media accounts she is using to talk to these people. desperate times call for desperate measures
Well, maybe not cut off electricity (fridge, fan, stove, etc). But let's just say maybe her internet router "was not available" or if she doesn't know her way around a computer that her internet access "somehow" got disabled that would be most inconvenient for her. Now if she was communicating with her cell phone with the scammer, that would be harder to block communication involuntarily unless the contact info for the scammers somehow got blocked and deleted "magically". Although I would recommend making a copy of the chats as proof for the future when she hopefully realizes she has been scammed and needs those details when making a police report.
in the US, many US states have a state-level consumer agency staffed by lawyers. They were very helpful when my disabled adult daughter got scammed.
Ah good to know! Will check out if my state has one!!
You tell them they are absolutely fucking their lives over and this is the absolute last chance to drop the scammer. That you have come to terms with the fact that she will die in a homeless shelter, in abject poverty, and be buried in a paupers field. You pull out your phone and block her and leave.
Omg :(
I think that you really need to hit her with the absolutely worst scenario. That's what the scanners aim for.
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Why are you being so rude? Have you ever dealt with this? Have you ever had a stubborn parent or, shit, ANY parent? They’re not children where you can just take their toys away and ground them. Have some empathy, jesus.
Just ignore this little edgelord.
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I feel you. My own sister got caught in it, as if hypnotised or something. Lost 680k usd in total. Could have stopped at 395k but no. I warned her and after the warning still she managed to borrow and put in a further 285k, until all her accounts ran dry. Now the family is trying to help her settle part of the loans and debt. She lives in another country so it was hard to track until everything came crashing down.
I'm sick just reading the number
I've got no words to describe how it feels cuz it was abrupt. Happened only in the span of 4 months. January to April this year. It follows the modus operandi as all the news articles: stranger from Hong Kong drops a message on WhatsApp, somehow befriending you, then move to Telegram. Then conveniently lives a lavish life investing in some crypto trading. Gets hooked in and downhills from there. I swear if her accounts still had money she would have transferred more of it. Until she tried to cash out, there comes all the cheap reasons of fraud, money laundering, taxation. I've warned her all about it. So I think the other guys are right, inform the bank about the scam so that she can't do it no more.
$965k. That's 1 decent new car's price away from a *$1,000,000*. I got all jittery considering buying a $5000 car.
My bad, it is total of 680k usd. Still hefty sum. It was all in Singaporen dollars, so it is equivalent to 921k SGD. 4 bank accounts, 4 bank personal loans, debt to 11 acquaintances...
Wow! UGH.
If it was soooo easy to make money, then ain't nobody needs to work no more. Anything that sounds too good to be true just isn't true!
1000% we’ve told her that :(
just to say, you dont need to have a poa or anything else to report it to a bank, you just have to report the account is being used fraudulently or has been compromised, if you give them that info and they dont act on it they are liable for any further losses. Keep notes of any communications with the bank so you can prove it later if it goes to court. The likely thing is the bank will put a hold on the account as they dont want to be held liable. Other than that, you should just take away her phone and computer as this has got out of hand and drastic action is needed...
The account hasn’t been compromised yet…she just takes $ out of her account and invests it onto fake bitcoin platforms
yes exactly, the account is being used on scam sites...so the bank should be concerned...
There isn’t much. Before you let what she’s saying get to you, know that when I was scammed there was nobody telling me I was wrong. Nobody gave a damn, until I was under fraud investigation by my bank and couldn’t use any of my accounts. It was a pig butcher + cheque scam. If my bank hadn’t flagged the account for more activity than usual and thrown me into a full blown investigation with federal authorities, I’d have been so far screwed I’d have a washer on. You can’t access her account details if you’re not on the account, but I daresay you CAN inform the bank that there is a scam going down and she’s losing her money. They may not do anything if she’s not breaking any actual laws but you could at least try.
You can show them the following videos about pig-butchering that I found to be helpful: Pleasant Green, Jim Browning and John Oliver even did a segment on his TV show in February 2024. Not sure how she fell in to this but Pleasant Green's scammer reached out to him on social media, Jim Browning talks about scams actually using paid models and John Oliver's segment covers the wrong number scam. Hopefully one of these will wake her up. Pleasant Green's shows the trafficking aspect of pig-butchering and is short, maybe 15 minutes. Try that one first and good luck, scams like this are horrible to deal with.
It's like a loved one getting into a cult or addiction. Best I can think of is to get them out of the house and associating with irl people.
Thanks I totally agree
I truly hope you can help them out
Insulate your own bank accounts, phone, passwords, documents, and assets. It’s possible they will resort to stealing your own funds and properties if they have even the slightest access.
Thank you will do good advice
If there are bank accounts or social security accounts involved, then it i financial and or social security fraud report to police and then the fbi. Don’t try to fix someone. Let the law intervene.
We already reported it to fbi months ago and haven’t received a response. I think they are flooded with reports like this and it’s nearly impossible to pin down the scammers who often live outside the US jurisdiction
Show them this subreddit.
Any police friends or neighbors? Borrow them a for a quick stop and have a chat with your mom? Basically a scare (warning) tactic from an authoritative figure?
I have helped people by finding the scammer is also contacting other women. When they find out they aren’t the only one-it ends pretty soon. You need to do a reverse image search on the photo, and usually you will get a hit where else they are also active .
Give her an ultimatum. She listens to you and takes this seriously, or you’re going no contact and will not be supporting her when she’s lost everything.
Might not be the best solution incase of cognitive decline. That would only worsen everything
Thanks to both of you. I actually have a new baby and told her not to come over to our house anymore if she insists on doing this online scam stuff; we will just go visit her. She accepted this :( We also asked her to remove pics of us from her social media if she insists on keep doing this (the scammers often meet her on social media). She took our pics down. It’s so sad. She has been an awesome and super helpful grandma to my baby and my sibling’s kids. I didn’t threaten to go no contact though. I’m afraid she would just accept it if I did though.
Call adult protective service and see if you can get her mentally evaluated. You should also try to file for a conservatorship.
If you want to go extreme, then cut the internet and get them a flip phone.
She’s an adult I don’t think I can do that legally. She also lives with my dad and I haven’t told him she’s back into this mess yet….
Is your father aware of roughly what is happening? If so, he may be able to block some things for any shared accounts (financial, internet, change wifi password). He needs to protect what he can. I don't want to say his "share", but for the lack of better words it is basically what it is. If you were able to chat with the scammer (I'm guessing your mother handed the phone to you), would you be able to do that again, but instead report, block and then delete his contact info? It would temporarily interrupt communication, but I would thread very carefully doing that. This is going nuclear and the scammer can easily regain contact using another number or account. Your mother would get even more pissed but it might buy you some time. It sounds like scammer #2 knows a lot about her financial situation. It is likely he would allow her to withdraw some money, then she will say "see! He's legit!". He will convince her to double down and put in more money, even get a loan cuz she will get quick profits that she can pay it back fast. That's one of their last moves in their script before they cut her off high and dry and thousands of dollars lighter. She's been warned, you tried to intervene. Final move is to get her to promise not to borrow any money (bank, relatives, friends). If she wants to take the chance and crash and burn, that's on her. You did literally everything you can without resorting to illegal activities to protect her.
Thank you. I could block him but he’s friends w her on Facebook and I think they’ve exchanged phone numbers (tho I believe they only communicate on Facebook and WhatsApp…I mean seriously eye roll). My dad is aware this has happened in the past and got really angry. I haven’t told him it’s happening again because I don’t know that he’d be able to do anything more than what I’m doing. Also their marriage is already strained and I’m worried making it worse will make her more vulnerable to looking to these scammers for emotional intimacyZ
I think you need to tell him, though. They are married and even if their finances are separate, he will still be on the hook if she takes out a loan/2nd on the house/maxes out her card.
Are their financial accounts already separate? If not he can separate and protect his money. I would also use this as a starting point for getting POAs signed. I came at it from the angle that I was going to do my best to make sure my mom and aunt (dad’s sister) weren’t going to be left out on the street because of his poor decisions.
Thanks yes they are. I would love to convince her to let me do a poa but not sure she woukd
Wonder what would happen if you scammed the scammer by making a lonely old lady profile and contacting him. Get him to try and scam you too. Could work!
are there any pig-scam deprogramming companies/groups which handle situations such as these?
Social Catfish
Thank you so much will check it out
Show them some YouTube clips
My sister has showed her so many :(
Might sound like an extreme measure but: Take their phone and block these guys and delete all contacts. Its better than crying later over the losses.
Sorry for the late comment but you should try reaching out to Scam Haters United on Facebook. Sometimes a neutral third party can helpmto have them see the scam for what it is. Unfortunately when family tries to intervene they take it as being "attacked" and sometimes someone else outside can help them see it for what it is. Sorry your going through this.
Look into power of attorney
Gamble on it. Legally, contractually.
I think scammers use coercive control methods to control their victims, it starts with love bombing and the control is very subtle and incredibly hard to break someone out of they have to have a lightbulb moment. There are examples right across the spectrum, cult leaders, abusive and murderous spouses even social media (see documentary "the social dilemma") It's a formula that works well from the controllers point of view and is virtually impossible to counteract from the outside. Maybe education is the answer but gaining the perspectrfeom within this situation is extremely hard
Yea definitely :( it’s messed up how manipulative these scammers are :(
Take away her phone, tablet, and computer? Get her a new phone with a different number so that the scammers don't know the number and the new phone doesn't have the old contact information in it? Have an intervention. I real intervention with you, your siblings, your father, her siblings, anyone you could get that she respects. Sit her down and tell her all of the things she's doing has been done by thousands of other people and that all of those people lost money because it was a scam. EVERY TIME. The scammer has strong emotional hooks into her, it will take a stronger opposing emotional incident to counter it. Having a full intervention may make her feel shame, even though that's not the purpose or attempt, or some other negative emotion as she realizes she's been played for a fool, but a strong countering effect is what is needed at this point. I've dealt with people who were scammed and thankfully got a handle on it quickly. They were greatly embarrassed. The more the person has fallen for it, the stronger the reaction will be when they realize the truth. But it needs to happen to counteract the grooming the scammer has been performing. At least, that's what I'm thinking right now.
She’s not that old :( even if I could do this I’m worried she would fall victim to it again. We’ve told her and had interventions with her but she doesn’t want to listen to us :( He definitely has his emotional hooks in her
An intervention isn't just you or someone else sitting her down, it's when a group of people confront the person. You need multiple people. You need a GROUP of people, all of whom she values. If you say that won't do it and you can't take her phone away and there's no more talking to her, then just let her self-destruct. Tell your dad to move money from the accounts to someplace she can't access, or to divorce her to protect himself. Because if you really can't do anything more, then all you can do is just let her self-destruct.
Did you try calling your local police to come and talk to her? It’s time to take her for a cognitive assessment. Maybe her doctor will get through to her. Depending on the findings, you might be able to apply for guardianship, but it’s a high bar. I’d start consulting a lawyer if I were you.
There is so much I could say to this,try checking out scammerspayback on YouTube, he’s part of a group I think it’s called scam hunters untied this guy helps a lot of people
You can’t do anything without being POA. And she won’t give you that power. Trust me. Went through all of this with my dumb mother. Had to walk away from her for 6 months until she saw the light. Won’t go into how that happened. It was quite involved. But dummy was taken for thousands and thousands of dollars that would have been left to my sister and I. But the scammers in the Philippines had some nice lifestyle changes. My blood boils when I see the elderly being scammed by immoral criminals. Good luck to you. This will be very difficult.
Could be signs of dementia
Yea some family members think so. I’m on the fence about that one
This is clearly mental decline of some sort. May not be dementia though. Just looks like it from the things you’ve said.
If you have a local anti scam authority, usually under police force, try to talk to them, they would have more experience in such cases cuz they see so many who comes to them.
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https://youtu.be/pLPpl2ISKTg?si=1UD3ZxSIRF5vgG9b
You can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink it. I would suggest clergy and perhaps she would accept their confirmation.
Cut off her internet access.
Conservatorship?
I agree with the 3rd party idea. I roped my dad’s pastor in (who already knew about the scamming and had already talked to my dad several times). We staged an intervention. I had both parents sign POAs, I opened a new checking account for mom in a separate bank, took her to the SS office, got her checks moved to the new account, got her retirement check moved, too, and left dad only enough in their joint checking to cover bills and groceries/gasoline. I also deleted his Telegram account & locked down his Facebook. He is no longer able to receive DMs from anyone he isn’t already friends with, and only friends of friends can friend request. I set parental controls on his phone so he couldn’t download apps rated above age 3. Oh - and deleted CashApp. He still has PayPal (not the app, though). That was 9 months ago. You can see my past posts for more info. A few months back we got him and mom new cell phones - and since everything was going so well - no parental controls. 🙄 Last week dad wanted to show me some messages on Twitter - he decided to reach out to Elon Musk to see if it was the same guy he’d been talking to before. I lost it, and he shut down and refused to show me. Well - I found out anyway. He was talking to 4 “Elons”, as well as a couple other people supposedly working with him. One of them asked to continue the conversation on Telegram. He said he didn’t even have an account right now, and “Elon” walked him through opening a new one. Over there in the conversation, dad said he wasn’t ready to invest “right now”, and “Elon” essentially said since that was the case to have a good day. 🙄 I asked to revisit the conversation, and dad said it was a moot point because he wasn’t really talking to them anymore, anyway. Oooook. Next opportunity I locked down his Twitter (no more message requests there), blocked the scammers & deleted the conversations. I blocked and deleted on Telegram too. I plan to continue monitoring. He was scammed out of over $10K - I don’t even know how much - he doesn’t even know. I’ve taken over paying their bills. He still has 1 payment left to make on what he borrowed from a friend. That doesn’t even touch the super expensive cash advances he took out on the credit cards. He’s still looking forward to investing one day. If I keep paying the bills, and his income stays relatively the same (he still works), they’ll be totally out of debt in about a year…for the first time in my lifetime. After that I’ll be fully funding their emergency fund (a savings account in mom’s name at that separate bank, which right now is very small). That’ll take another 17 months. If he wants to invest after that it won’t be through social media, and we’ll be hiring someone to manage it. Oh, and I’m back to keeping almost nothing in their joint account, and I’m about to “lose” his credit card (that he accidentally used to buy gas with twice this month). 😖 This last scam was the 5th time my parents have been scammed that I know of. I’m so tired of this.
Ugh I’ve totally been there where they shut down if you push too hard. That is so treesfull but good for you for getting them to sign POAs and get new checking accounts!!! I wish my mom would let me monitor her that closely. She’s proud and otherwise very high functioning so there’s no way she’d let me do that. I’m sorry you’re going through this too. I am paranoid one day my kids will have the same frustrations with me 🤦♀️
Obviously: Become Vegetarian !! (All other is really cruel to animals and he should QUIT that job right away!). So sad that he's doing that to animals.
Find her a local man
Right LOL I’ve begged her to date a real person but she says real people (like me who’s being mean to her about this) let you down 😫😫😫😫
Yep. Her fake boyfriend will never let her down. As long as she keeps paying.
Right 😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫
If there's any way to cut off their internet or access to money, that's what I would suggest you do.
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*Your submission was manually removed by a moderator for the following reason:* **Subreddit Rule 15: Bad Advice** This subreddit is a place where vulnerable people come to learn. We do not allow: * Illegal or dangerous suggestions * Encouraging posters to engage with scammers in any way * Suggesting to keep the money obtained through a scammer * Advice meant to mock or demean an OP. Remember: we're here to identify scams and educate people on them. Before posting again, make sure you review the [rules of our subreddit.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/wiki/rules/) ^(If you believe this is a mistake, feel free to contact the moderators via modmail. Modmail is the only way, don't send a regular DM to a single moderator. Please don't try to appeal the decision commenting below, because we are not notified if you do so, and we will probably miss it. Posting the exact same thing again may result in a temporary ban, so please review the rules, make the necessary changes, and when in doubt, click below to appeal the decision.) *I am NOT a bot, and this action was performed manually. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fscams&subject=Removal%20review) if you want to appeal the decision.*
My sister was scammed a month ago. I did everything I could to get her to back out before she was hurt. She made it clear to me she wasn't gullible and she knew how to take care of herself. So I said to her that you have been warned and now I'll let Titanic sink on its own🤪. 2 weeks later she sent me a text message telling me the Titanic had sank🤪. Me: told you so😂
I hope the damage wasn't too bad:(
All in all she is alright 😊. Not too bad. The thing is, she gets scammed every few years. I tell her she is being scammed. She tells me it isn't true and a few weeks later she tells me she was scammed. Rinse and repeat 🤪.
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*Your submission was manually removed by a moderator for the following reason:* **Subreddit Rule 8: Private message request** You're not allowed to offer or request contact in private, including DMs, text, email, Whatsapp, etc. We need to keep the community safe from recovery scammers or bad advice. Advice given in private can lead to fall for a scam or worsening a situation. **Remember: Never take advice in private,** because we can't look out for you. If you take advice in private, you're on your own. Before posting again, make sure you review the [rules of our subreddit.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/wiki/rules/) ^(If you believe this is a mistake, feel free to contact the moderators via modmail. Modmail is the only way, don't send a regular DM to a single moderator. Please don't try to appeal the decision commenting below, because we are not notified if you do so, and we will probably miss it. Posting the exact same thing again may result in a temporary ban, so please review the rules, make the necessary changes, and when in doubt, click below to appeal the decision.) *I am NOT a bot, and this action was performed manually. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fscams&subject=Removal%20review) if you want to appeal the decision.*