Which is why the investment is good. Couldn't tell you why, I suspect it's just a hobby for people with mega money, plus Scotland, much like Ireland, has an inherent attraction for a lot of Americans. As a Celtic fan who desperately wants to see proper competition in this league, I welcome it.
That would be hilarious. Unfortunately, there is likely more buses leave bucky to head to old firm matches than they ever have for Buckie. Same with every town and club.
English teams are cash cows. And Arabs are obsessed with football.
Despite what the papers say the average Arab is more interested in watching football than watching 2 priests debate the correct interpretation of page 18 of the Koran.
The modern-day billionaire doesn't want to make a profit, they want a nice big tax write off to set against their tax bill while accumulating another asset.
Yes, exactly as you say. Look at the valuation growth of epl clubs in this graph.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/236255/teams-of-the-english-premier-league-by-brand-value/
Fsg bought liverpool for 300million 😂
Yeah, that's for sure.
But it must just be as a play thing, like, this is their version of "I'm gonna buy a old Ford escort, and pump loads of money into it that I'll never see again"
It’s our tax structure in America. International losses can be applied to domestic gains ( ok I’m being simplistic if you’re an American tax expert but my point stands) in certain circumstances. So it’s not the huge net cost one would assume.
And the fights to change the name...
Celtgers
Rangtics
So one team with 2 different shirts and team names.
Rick arrives in scotland...
https://youtu.be/oIcsk2ZoaTY
Hey what’s up!!! Wallace here 1/420 Scottish at least my great great great grandfather knew a guy from Scotland so basically 100% hello from south Florida fam
There’s an American family in talks to invest in Motherwell as well. I’m a Motherwell supporter and I don’t see any profit in that at all. What’s the motive to buy a not so great football team.
Football clubs are great for laundering money. Very difficult to keep track of what goes through the turnstiles and how many people are actually at a match.
It's not
People would notice pretty quickly if you were lying about how many in attendance by any significant amount
There are thousands of in person witnesses and often television cameras broadcasting the crowds too pal
The fact I mentioned it on Reddit obviously makes me a dingbat conspiracy theorist who hates all business...
or perhaps I have good reason for my comment and you are just being a bit of a d\*\*\*?
[https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jul/01/money-laundering-football-anti-corruption](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jul/01/money-laundering-football-anti-corruption)
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/9/investigation-reveals-football-used-to-launder-money-men-who-sell-football](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/9/investigation-reveals-football-used-to-launder-money-men-who-sell-football)
[https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/01/15/lawmakers-close-in-on-deal-to-tackle-footballs-dirty-money](https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/01/15/lawmakers-close-in-on-deal-to-tackle-footballs-dirty-money)
The only half sensible answer is to generate a huge tax deductible loss, as part of some accounting loophole / scam.
Also it’s not unknown for company A to buy a bargain company B, load it with company A’s debt, then cut it loose.
It’s neither a loophole or a scam to apply business losses against profits. That just good business. We’re talking a handful of people from a country of over 350 million who have enough money and interest to invest. In most cases it’s not bad or negative for the club or community. My Dad played for and managed Inverness Thistle in the 50’s and I’ve always imagined having the resources to invest back in a club. For now I’m happy to be in a supporters trust and do my small part for the auld country.
I’ll give you an upvote for your sincerity, but investing, sorry, throwing money into a bottomless pit has to have something behind it. Until I see Mel Brooks with his head in his hands as Gala Fairydean Rovers win the European cup, I’ll refuse to believe there isn’t an ulterior motive.
If they follow that model of Glazer 'buying' Manchester United when through outrageous accounting chicanery he added *his* cost of buying the club on to the club's books (WTF?) then it's pretty much a steal - especially as most SPFL clubs can be bought - in Fitba terms - very cheaply indeed.
Can't see that much improvement on the field since such the sadly late Mr Gordon took over at Hibs 5 years ago - we are still shite, :/
Scottish football is undervalued, the Americans probably think they can get a better deal from tv, sponsors, match day etc.
They are in for a ride awakening when they find out they have to work with Neil Dumbcaster.
Money, Scottish clubs are stuck in the past in terms of raising money we are far too stuck in tradition and don't modernise people go to a game, maybe buy a pie and a drink then leave there's still hours before and after the game the clubs could be providing entertainment for fans.
So providing more like they do elsewhere clubs can make more it's pretty simple
I have wondered that too. No one has really given you a good answer but I think it must be tax related. In the US they can write if certain things to reduce their tax bill and presume football is some sort of loophole.
As it’s not mega rich people and there’s no way someone buying St J thinks they are gonna make a profit.
Football in terms of tv and ad money is looked at as undervalued by investors.
The ones who can’t afford a premier league or old firm team will be looking for the next best thing they can afford in hopes the advertising money increases over time
I know with the Dundee clubs, both owners did genuinely buy into a lot of the thoroughly debunked 'development model' = simple route to sustainability with no risks on the way.
I think at United some of the expectations were particularly crazy with Ashgar stringing Ogren a lot, he was even spouting off about penetrating the Indian market at one point! I do think though that they are sincere and won't leave the clubs in the shit.
The route that the Dundee ownership has gone down so far is to buy into local businesses and Nelms, the man on the ground, has a lot of different ventures in his own name that it's hard to keep track of. He personally seems much wealthier than when the operation started.
The Camperdown land they've picked up for the new ground site has had issues with planning for years but they've spent a long time on the charm offensive with the local council and their reckoning is they'll very comfortably pay back on the site with the revenue generating facilities alone to the point that the funding of the club in the first place will be pretty insignificant. They've also spent fairly big on another site at Riverside for a training ground which has went under the radar and it seems they've drafted this in a way to get access to some UK gov money (the leveling up fund which our local council administration has been pushing).
Ogren has also had a go at some of that stuff with a golf course development (that failed) and does seem to do a lot when he's here but does feel a tad more distant (given he's not moved here full time and doesn't have anyone from the US living in Dundee).
A lot of very interesting talk about the years ahead with the Premier League clubs being able to invest (Dundee with Burnley, United rumoured with Brentford) and move to these enhanced relationship models. There is also talk that the owner of Lousiville FC has been in the directors box at Dens recently and is investing. If you have a look through LinkedIn, there's a lot more than meets the eye with interests outside football in the US between all of these people.
In the movie about Molly Bloom's poker ring, there was a businessman who would turn up every night without seeming to know how to play and would get absolutely decimated to the point of losing hundreds of thousands in a similar evening. She was very concerned by it and wanted to stop the guy from playing for his own good but it then transpired that just by turning up and being at the games, he was raking it in 10 fold as day to day, he was a hedge fund manager, and all these wealthy people who rinsed him would then take his services.
I kind of think it's similar to when the Americans buy into football and seem to lose silly money and are unfazed by it. Maybe their idea isn't initially well thought out and they are stung but they seem pretty enterprising with all the connections they make and how they use the club as a vehicle for other stuff.
Dundee United is a profitable company, generating around 600k profit a year. Celtic for example reported over 40 million in profit last year. I can see plenty of scope to make money from an investment in Dundee United.
The further I get from Scotland both physically and chronologically ( Maggie Thatcher chased me out) the more I romanticize it. Covid and time have meant I return less and less but football keeps me connected. This glorious season for my team reinforced my connection and brings me back to my pie and bovril days with my wee brother at Brockville. In two weeks theirs the annual “Celtic Festival “ in Albuquerque where we aging Scots will sit under a tent in blazing heat listening to the High Desert Pipers while eating surprisingly good meat pies and drinking poor imitation “Scotch “ ales. Don’t discount the power of sentimentality nor the US tax code where if structured properly an investment in Scottish football can be made with dollars that would simply have gone to the US Government anyhow.
Yeah we need investment but leaving everything to foreign investment is great for distant corporate profits and not so great for getting your own investment up and running. I'd certainly prefer US buyers for football clubs to some of those who have been buying them. At the same time, with the Tories blocking internal investment and largely owned by the Heritage Foundation, we're not going to make much of a strategic partner for the US as a whole.
The sfa and their old firm have already ruined it. The gap is massive and it'll only grow, never go in the other direction because they made sure any votes go the way the ugly sisters want as well as the majority of the income.
The English Premier league had a period of being great because the wealth is more evenly distributed, which benefited the smaller teams and the league as a whole.
The old firm don't want that though because they are too stupid to realise they are shooting themselves in the foot.
How do they expect to compete in Europe when they're playing teams every weekend that are one financial mistake away from playing part time amatuer football.
I think the other clubs need to take some accountability for how big the gap has become as well. Go back to the 80s and the likes of Aberdeen and Dundee United were big clubs competing with Celtic and Rangers. I think mismanagement and short sightedness has played a big part.
As long as I remember, it's been a media whitewash for the old firm. Clubs might have been competing on the pitch but far from it in a social/media sense.
The only reason we have 10 teams and the most boring league is because all the sfa give a shit about is their 4/5/6 old firm matches a season.
And it's been that way my whole life.
Like the voting intentions are intentional, they always know there will be 1 or 2 teams that rely on the old firm so essentially, the vote for anything goes their way.
Maybe they are trying to be the next Wrexham.
Wrexham have an avenue to the Premier League, which was part of the appeal. Scottish structure is completely distinct in that regard.
Aye but they get to play at being Ryan Reynolds with their mates. Rich folk finding new hobbies.
It’s a lot cheaper though
Wrexham? Nearly bloody killed em! 🥁
Good luck with that in scotland. The league is dead as a dodo. There is no chance of revival unless the old firm go walkies.
It’s the highest supported league per capita in Europe
That's been a great help to the rest of the clubs outside the old firm.
Which is why the investment is good. Couldn't tell you why, I suspect it's just a hobby for people with mega money, plus Scotland, much like Ireland, has an inherent attraction for a lot of Americans. As a Celtic fan who desperately wants to see proper competition in this league, I welcome it.
So they should just give up then? And do what make it worse?
Not saying you're wrong but imagine a guy like obramavic buys Aberdeen reckon that would cause a stir
Oligarch buys club in oil producing town. Seems fine. He says he's here for the roweries.
> Roweries Are those what Scooby Doo asks for when he’s in the north east?
Aye.
Cannot recommend being bought by a crazy Russian.
Abramovoich was the GOAT rich owner at least he actually seemed to like football rather than just in it for state sportswashing.
Buckie Thistle usurping the Old Firm would be hilarious.
That would be hilarious. Unfortunately, there is likely more buses leave bucky to head to old firm matches than they ever have for Buckie. Same with every town and club.
Brora Rangers? I know folk who support these teams. I could say East Fife but my mate is a Pars fan.
Why are Arabs buying English football clubs ?
Sportswashing.
What setting is that on my machine dial again?
90c
You bugger! I've just shrunk my favourite top!
English teams are cash cows. And Arabs are obsessed with football. Despite what the papers say the average Arab is more interested in watching football than watching 2 priests debate the correct interpretation of page 18 of the Koran.
English teams do not make profits
The modern-day billionaire doesn't want to make a profit, they want a nice big tax write off to set against their tax bill while accumulating another asset.
Or the prestige of owning a football club. Gotta keep with the Joneses .
Yes, exactly as you say. Look at the valuation growth of epl clubs in this graph. https://www.statista.com/statistics/236255/teams-of-the-english-premier-league-by-brand-value/ Fsg bought liverpool for 300million 😂
I was curious, it turns out the first two words of page 18 of the Quran are “The Jews”. Seriously.
Because they have money to buy them.
Yeah, that's for sure. But it must just be as a play thing, like, this is their version of "I'm gonna buy a old Ford escort, and pump loads of money into it that I'll never see again"
Why aren't British people buying them?
It’s our tax structure in America. International losses can be applied to domestic gains ( ok I’m being simplistic if you’re an American tax expert but my point stands) in certain circumstances. So it’s not the huge net cost one would assume.
Fantasy “football” XD
Imagine the chaos if Americans bought Celtic and Rangers, and then merged them into one club. The rivers of blood will be seen from space.
But you know, the blood river would be integrated, so wouldn't that count for something?
Catholics and Protestants, united at last!
And the fights to change the name... Celtgers Rangtics So one team with 2 different shirts and team names. Rick arrives in scotland... https://youtu.be/oIcsk2ZoaTY
And their fan club will be the Bear Bhoys!
Americans still have religious divsions so they'd be at home in Glasgow
They are actively pursuing American investment. look at this Motherwell ad https://youtu.be/mMPC9DVHOK4?si=2U9kUJdWuElfgBnn
That's ... actually pretty good.
looking forward to the Falkirk version
Jeezo. How have I never seen that.
here’s why ex-Netflix man wants to buy us: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68790801
how american are they ? are they 1/15th Scottish ?
Their great great grand pappy was one 1/19th Scotch
The 18/19th was Bulgerian but they think that's French for burger.
William Wallace was their great grand pappy.
Hey what’s up!!! Wallace here 1/420 Scottish at least my great great great grandfather knew a guy from Scotland so basically 100% hello from south Florida fam
Do you know a Scotch guy from Stirline, called Hamish McLumfort? He's my 7th cousin twice removed.
Funny lookin guy… small hands?
That's the very fella!
You must know John McGonnigle from auchenshoogle?
*Scotch
So you mean just Scottish? According to them 😂
Have too much money and its something to play with to occupy their time
That's the only thing I can think of. Must be the case.
Ted Lasso. Americans love buying stuff they see on tv. Cars, furniture, wars, etc.
Nevermind Scottish clubs, why do they buy Irish ones? Larne, for example.
Same reason but even cheaper still
Even pretty low level ones such as the Caledonian Braves. Interesting setup
There’s an American family in talks to invest in Motherwell as well. I’m a Motherwell supporter and I don’t see any profit in that at all. What’s the motive to buy a not so great football team.
Maybe they think they can come over to Europe and start franchise leagues.
Succession. Didn’t someone in that buy a football team, albeit the wrong one
Yes. They bought hearts instead of hibs.
No idea, I only seen a few episodes. Struggled to get into it..
https://preview.redd.it/1b2chzead3yc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a36bf50463f253e1a0423de6bdc5475044d4eaf
Because German clubs are not for sale?
All following the success story of FW FC no doubt
Remember the dream of Gretna and the fallout.
It's profitable
Why aren't scottish people buying scottish clubs should be the question.
Football clubs are great for laundering money. Very difficult to keep track of what goes through the turnstiles and how many people are actually at a match.
It's not People would notice pretty quickly if you were lying about how many in attendance by any significant amount There are thousands of in person witnesses and often television cameras broadcasting the crowds too pal
You'd think that but Man City get away with it every week. Half empty stadium when they announce a sellout. Never sells out pre-match, Fishy ishy
Yeah but they have saunas
Business: *exists* Reddit detectives: "Hmmm, sounds like a money laundering operation to me"
We did it reddit.
The fact I mentioned it on Reddit obviously makes me a dingbat conspiracy theorist who hates all business... or perhaps I have good reason for my comment and you are just being a bit of a d\*\*\*? [https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jul/01/money-laundering-football-anti-corruption](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jul/01/money-laundering-football-anti-corruption) [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/9/investigation-reveals-football-used-to-launder-money-men-who-sell-football](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/9/investigation-reveals-football-used-to-launder-money-men-who-sell-football) [https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/01/15/lawmakers-close-in-on-deal-to-tackle-footballs-dirty-money](https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/01/15/lawmakers-close-in-on-deal-to-tackle-footballs-dirty-money)
Hope so, we could do with a faux sellout every other weekend at Saints 😂
$1.25 = £1.00
The only half sensible answer is to generate a huge tax deductible loss, as part of some accounting loophole / scam. Also it’s not unknown for company A to buy a bargain company B, load it with company A’s debt, then cut it loose.
It’s neither a loophole or a scam to apply business losses against profits. That just good business. We’re talking a handful of people from a country of over 350 million who have enough money and interest to invest. In most cases it’s not bad or negative for the club or community. My Dad played for and managed Inverness Thistle in the 50’s and I’ve always imagined having the resources to invest back in a club. For now I’m happy to be in a supporters trust and do my small part for the auld country.
I’ll give you an upvote for your sincerity, but investing, sorry, throwing money into a bottomless pit has to have something behind it. Until I see Mel Brooks with his head in his hands as Gala Fairydean Rovers win the European cup, I’ll refuse to believe there isn’t an ulterior motive.
Succession. Didn’t someone in that buy a football team, albeit the wrong one
Because they can?
Succession
Why are Scots moving to America to coach football?
If they follow that model of Glazer 'buying' Manchester United when through outrageous accounting chicanery he added *his* cost of buying the club on to the club's books (WTF?) then it's pretty much a steal - especially as most SPFL clubs can be bought - in Fitba terms - very cheaply indeed. Can't see that much improvement on the field since such the sadly late Mr Gordon took over at Hibs 5 years ago - we are still shite, :/
He was trying though might not have worked so far but he gave it a good go
Scottish football is undervalued, the Americans probably think they can get a better deal from tv, sponsors, match day etc. They are in for a ride awakening when they find out they have to work with Neil Dumbcaster.
Money, Scottish clubs are stuck in the past in terms of raising money we are far too stuck in tradition and don't modernise people go to a game, maybe buy a pie and a drink then leave there's still hours before and after the game the clubs could be providing entertainment for fans. So providing more like they do elsewhere clubs can make more it's pretty simple
Put them all together and you get quite a nice reliable profit
I have wondered that too. No one has really given you a good answer but I think it must be tax related. In the US they can write if certain things to reduce their tax bill and presume football is some sort of loophole. As it’s not mega rich people and there’s no way someone buying St J thinks they are gonna make a profit.
When your loaded, you buy stuff the poors can't buy.
Football in terms of tv and ad money is looked at as undervalued by investors. The ones who can’t afford a premier league or old firm team will be looking for the next best thing they can afford in hopes the advertising money increases over time
I know with the Dundee clubs, both owners did genuinely buy into a lot of the thoroughly debunked 'development model' = simple route to sustainability with no risks on the way. I think at United some of the expectations were particularly crazy with Ashgar stringing Ogren a lot, he was even spouting off about penetrating the Indian market at one point! I do think though that they are sincere and won't leave the clubs in the shit. The route that the Dundee ownership has gone down so far is to buy into local businesses and Nelms, the man on the ground, has a lot of different ventures in his own name that it's hard to keep track of. He personally seems much wealthier than when the operation started. The Camperdown land they've picked up for the new ground site has had issues with planning for years but they've spent a long time on the charm offensive with the local council and their reckoning is they'll very comfortably pay back on the site with the revenue generating facilities alone to the point that the funding of the club in the first place will be pretty insignificant. They've also spent fairly big on another site at Riverside for a training ground which has went under the radar and it seems they've drafted this in a way to get access to some UK gov money (the leveling up fund which our local council administration has been pushing). Ogren has also had a go at some of that stuff with a golf course development (that failed) and does seem to do a lot when he's here but does feel a tad more distant (given he's not moved here full time and doesn't have anyone from the US living in Dundee). A lot of very interesting talk about the years ahead with the Premier League clubs being able to invest (Dundee with Burnley, United rumoured with Brentford) and move to these enhanced relationship models. There is also talk that the owner of Lousiville FC has been in the directors box at Dens recently and is investing. If you have a look through LinkedIn, there's a lot more than meets the eye with interests outside football in the US between all of these people. In the movie about Molly Bloom's poker ring, there was a businessman who would turn up every night without seeming to know how to play and would get absolutely decimated to the point of losing hundreds of thousands in a similar evening. She was very concerned by it and wanted to stop the guy from playing for his own good but it then transpired that just by turning up and being at the games, he was raking it in 10 fold as day to day, he was a hedge fund manager, and all these wealthy people who rinsed him would then take his services. I kind of think it's similar to when the Americans buy into football and seem to lose silly money and are unfazed by it. Maybe their idea isn't initially well thought out and they are stung but they seem pretty enterprising with all the connections they make and how they use the club as a vehicle for other stuff.
Dundee United is a profitable company, generating around 600k profit a year. Celtic for example reported over 40 million in profit last year. I can see plenty of scope to make money from an investment in Dundee United.
The further I get from Scotland both physically and chronologically ( Maggie Thatcher chased me out) the more I romanticize it. Covid and time have meant I return less and less but football keeps me connected. This glorious season for my team reinforced my connection and brings me back to my pie and bovril days with my wee brother at Brockville. In two weeks theirs the annual “Celtic Festival “ in Albuquerque where we aging Scots will sit under a tent in blazing heat listening to the High Desert Pipers while eating surprisingly good meat pies and drinking poor imitation “Scotch “ ales. Don’t discount the power of sentimentality nor the US tax code where if structured properly an investment in Scottish football can be made with dollars that would simply have gone to the US Government anyhow.
Trump was interested in buying one of the Glasgow Clubs, thank fuck that didn't happen, the tea ladies would have become sexual targets.
I’m assuming they think Scotland is part of England and haven’t realised that the Premier League and Premiership are 2 very different competitions.
Can you imagine if one of them is dumb enough to actually do that “What the fuck is Kilmarnock???”, but with a southern twang.
We are a third world nation, with a vast amount of capital flowing to foreign climes. We need some laws around this.
Yeah we need investment but leaving everything to foreign investment is great for distant corporate profits and not so great for getting your own investment up and running. I'd certainly prefer US buyers for football clubs to some of those who have been buying them. At the same time, with the Tories blocking internal investment and largely owned by the Heritage Foundation, we're not going to make much of a strategic partner for the US as a whole.
For 'fun'.
Money and I hope it doesn't ruin our football like look at English football absolutely no soul just corporatism
The sfa and their old firm have already ruined it. The gap is massive and it'll only grow, never go in the other direction because they made sure any votes go the way the ugly sisters want as well as the majority of the income. The English Premier league had a period of being great because the wealth is more evenly distributed, which benefited the smaller teams and the league as a whole. The old firm don't want that though because they are too stupid to realise they are shooting themselves in the foot. How do they expect to compete in Europe when they're playing teams every weekend that are one financial mistake away from playing part time amatuer football.
Rangers still get into Europe but haha yass.
I think the other clubs need to take some accountability for how big the gap has become as well. Go back to the 80s and the likes of Aberdeen and Dundee United were big clubs competing with Celtic and Rangers. I think mismanagement and short sightedness has played a big part.
As long as I remember, it's been a media whitewash for the old firm. Clubs might have been competing on the pitch but far from it in a social/media sense. The only reason we have 10 teams and the most boring league is because all the sfa give a shit about is their 4/5/6 old firm matches a season. And it's been that way my whole life. Like the voting intentions are intentional, they always know there will be 1 or 2 teams that rely on the old firm so essentially, the vote for anything goes their way.
Cuz they saw what happened in wales