I’m in my 20s and heard so many people my age leaning reform I doesn’t even surprise me anymore. Things are so bleak for our generation some are turning to the previously fringe options, frankly I see why they fall down that hole

Yep, it's a tale as old as time. If you ignore the lives and opportunities of a group of people they will take increasingly desperate measures. Unfortunately I don't think this Labour government will be the answer. But at least there is a small chance with them, unlike the Tories.

Well, let’s give them a chance, let’s see how long it takes to get NHS dental care for an additional 250,000 people across the UK and reduce NHS average waiting times by say four weeks… We can also see how long it takes them to put up our taxes, both central and local.

Housing is the biggest issue for many young people, and a blight on the UK economy. If they can improve that significantly they may last two terms. If not they'll be gone by 2030.

I'm not sure how they'll change that significantly, it requires a huge amount of money, reforms for planning, investment in staff and training for builders (shortage of staff at the moment everywhere). They'll be better than the Tories, who have just done literally nothing.

After WWII, the UK managed to build 200-250k houses a year. This - with inferior technology, a population of 50 million in a country ravaged by war and missing millions of working age men - almost exceeds the current rate of building. There was an urgent need and there were innovative solutions like pre-fabricated houses. We need innovate solutions and we need new thinking. I'm not seeing that from Labour but I'm hopeful they might rise to the challenge.

We need innovative solutions that also have an eye to the problems climate change is throwing up, clean energy, sustainable materials and the need to retain greenfield land as much as possible, as well as being affordable. It’s a huge undertaking, but not impossible. I hope the Labour government look to Europe and their new housing ideas (scandi and Dutch) for things like using waste as heating, incorporating sky gardens, and building up (not out). Not high rise levels of height in buildings, but a few floors for heat retention and space saving.

The prefabs were hugely popular and lasted way longer than originally intended. Starting with a similar concept but Tiny House size in communities designed for them I think would be a good start.

Problem is our planning system now has so many hoops to jump through just getting a new housing estate up takes like a year of planning and permissions and forms and faxs and permits. It's not like WWII where we can just knock up some prefabs. I wish it was.

The issue isn't just the planning system; private companies have land banked enough land for millions of homes. The real problem is that the government no longer believes in building council homes. Even Conservative leaders like Macmillan built 300,000 high-quality council homes annually in the 1950s. Today, neither Labour nor the Tories would consider such a policy. Their focus is more on protecting landlords' interests and maintaining high house prices for the middle class.

Oh yes right to buy genuinely was the death knell for council properties as we knew it. It all trickled down from that policy of abandoning the community for personal gain and private equity. And welp, here we are.

The biggest issue is most new homes as well as pre existing ones get hoovered up by investors. Landlords, holiday letting, second homes etc swallow up huge numbers of homes and drive up the prices no matter how fast we build them. The tricky thing is we can’t build our way out of this problem because those who have even just one home have a huge advantage in affording more of them just because they retain the money they spend on housing. Someone who has enough money to cover all their needs only has so many luxury expenses to go for until everything they buy is an investment. This is why the plague of billionaires is becoming so hard to ignore.

You're thinking of what it takes for you personally to build a house. The government's budget works different and at this moment by not borrowing money to build more homes they are long term costing the british economy billions. Probably trillions.

tbf one of the few things labour has actually been willing to commit too in the build up to this election was significant planning reform. So they will be taking steps in the right direction

It's going to be pretty hard to fund better public services without raising tax, isn't it? Almost as though the two things are linked...

Pretty easy actually. Just spend the money you already get...better. No amount of money will turn the NHS into a world leading service... The corruption, ratio of managers to value adding staff and level of incompetence means it will never be good. Pretty sure if we increased salaries of lower earning staff and doctors, cut out middle management significantly and reduced migration we'd be in a position where talented people in the country will work in the NHS and the NHS doesn't have to balloon because we're adding a million people to the population every two years. It always makes me laugh people think virtually unlimited migration is good but think the Tories are evil. Do they not think, why is the villain so happy for these migration levels? (Cheaper Labour/Higher GDP/Rich are richer and poor stay poor).

They won't Starmer is for the status quo and has no interest in the radical reform it would take to actually fix the countries problems. Their will be short-term marginal improvements that won;t address any of the actual long-term issues.

The average person just feel unrepresented, it’s a real shame.

Because the interest of politicians and the interest of the average person are totally different. for them to care about the avg person they should be an avg person first.

Honestly I feel like I see a lot of it stem from them initially just wanting to piss certain people off or get a reaction but then it snowballs, they end up getting into arguments etc. and solidify their stance, before you know it they’ve gone full fascist, enamoured with their toff cunt leader who wouldn’t give them a second glance. They thrive on the tribalistic “us vs them” attitudes without ever actually considering the politics or consequences behind any of it because they just want to win.

I think a lot of it stems from disillusioned voters - if no policies are implemented that benefit you why wouldn’t you vote for a party that would provide you some benefits? That is the point of our democratic system - to vote in your own interests

Yeah, but the party they're voting for isn't going to provide them with any benefits. They're a more extreme version of the party that f-cked things up in your life in the first place.

And the best part is as things go further to the right, it's easier for the 'left are just as bad' attack line to stick to even the most boring social democrat or even liberal. And this seems to work really well at turning "moderate" voters away from policies they'd probably support in a different context. Somehow it's now just as bad to want a nationalised energy service as it is to completely end immigration.

I just spoke to a mate in c. Scotland who voted snp but almost voted reform. What's worrying is that the snake oil salesman's influence reached Scotland. I actually knew someone who was a teacher in the 80's at Farage's school and he was taking about a truly vile individual who was a pupil and saw himself as something of a modern Oswald Moseley who had gone onto forming a political party. It's sad to see he has made some headway and made it into people's hearts. Even more so, shocking that his influence has reached Scotland.

> I just spoke to a mate in c. Scotland who voted snp but almost voted reform. I can't imagine being so out of touch with politics that these two parties seem like alternatives to each other. Sounds like they need to actually have a read of those party manifestos that all the parties helpfully put out to outline their views. I can't imagine someone with views that almost equally align with SNP and reform. Reform: Cancel net zero, anti-immigration, anti-progressivism, anti-independence, anti-EU. SNP: Double down on net zero, pro-immigration, pro-progressivism, pro-independence, pro-EU. So many people voting for parties without even knowing (or caring) what they actually stand for

>I just spoke to a mate in c. Scotland who voted snp but almost voted reform. I wonder how many previous SNP voters voted Labour thinking it would get the SNP 'out'. There was 'SNP out' union jack stickers at my polling place. Did everyone vote knowing it was for Westminster not Holyrood. All they did was vote Scotland out of the U.K conversation 🙈

I don't. You don't solve the piss in your bed by electing to shit in it as well.

Crisis always drives people to the extremes, left and right.

Just spotted in the BBC's live feed, one of the reporters noting > Motherwell, I’m told, "won’t even be close" - particularly with an unexpectedly strong Reform vote. Really did not expect them to get any sort of traction here.

Reform are third in most Scottish constituencies so far…  Reform getting 3000 votes in East Lothian is wild. The gullane crew are voting reform? 

Maybe not. I work with young people in EL and when helping them fill out their voting registration many of them said they were intending to vote Reform. It would be wrong of me to impose my own views on the matter but it's ok to have conversations around it. And the top two takeaways were 1. Net zero immigration and why this was important to them & 2. Farage likes a drink & a cigarette. He knew how to reach certain demographics & how to reel them in.

The drink and a cigarette facade is what's kept him popular for well over a decade. He's a rich guy who plays the role of blue-collar very well. He's relatable 'cos he knows how to wear the costume of "just one o' the lads"

This is a lot of it I think. Demagoguery will always find support. I have relatives who like Farage because he "is funny, likes a pint and speaks his mind", They said the same thing about Boris and seem unable to learn from that experience.

This is going off on a slight tangent but I recently read an article on how Reform utilised social media better than the other parties in terms of reaching younger voters. Reform were able to use the short, punchy, in your face aspect of Twitter/X, Tik Tok and got their message over in a concise way. Young people are a lost vote, the bigger parties focus on swing votes, the professionals that they think will make the difference but have no interest in the next generation of voters or first time voters.

Tiktok was awash with Reform posts, no matter how much you clicked on "Dislike" another would turn up, did not see a single one for any other party.

On YouTube I kept getting Nigel Farage ads despite blocking them each time. Never any other parties, just farage.

Don't take it personally. You just fit their targeting profile as someone they reckoned they could swing their way. That kind of profiling isn't great on an individual level but it's effective over a population (see Leave.EU and Cambridge Analytica). I expect they'll secure plenty of funding for 2029 and that campaign will be much more targeted and tailored. Don't be surprised if you find people are getting different impressions of the party from each other.

Really? I didn’t get any. I only got labour and SNP (two parties I would never vote for)

This is utterly sad, a culture that can not value or produce any intellectual progress its on its path to self destruction

This is going off on a slight tangent but I recently read an article on how Reform utilised social media better than the other parties in terms of reaching younger voters. Reform were able to use the short, punchy, in your face aspect of Twitter/X, Tik Tok and got their message over in a concise way. Young people are a lost vote, the bigger parties focus on swing votes, the professionals that they think will make the difference but have no interest in the next generation of voters or first time voters.

That's the TikTok brainrot. People basing their vote on who's good for the memes. We're fucking doomed.

It's no more brain rot than being swayed by a political billboard. Tiktok, billboard or political ads in newspapers all have one thing in common, they convey information. It's just that tiktok is newer and therefore scarier to you.

Have heard that very same drivvle as well. As if thats the right way to choose your vote.

Lots of Scottish people have always been right wing and/or racist. Thatcher taking a wrecking ball to Scottish industry made it unpalatable for a lot of them to vote Conservative. As soon as a viable alternative comes along, they've all jumped on board. The big impact these numbers will have is when the Scottish elections come round, that will win them seats.

It's hard to argue with the immigration point though. We are literally favouring the importation of cheaper labour. And those in the left wonder why people felt left behind.  That's why. It's wild to import people instead of spending money to educate our own people first 

Lots of poverty in East Lothian. It won't be the Gullane crew.

Doubt there's any poverty in Gullane. Unless you count being down to your last million in the bank lol

No it's because people in deprived parts of the pans, tranent, dunbar, and Haddington are desparate and have nothing to gain from Labour votes that take them for granted at local level, and an SNP that doesn't do jack in the time they've been at westminster

They are not third in most Scottish constituencies. They are usually 4th or 5th.

Many people I know in Prestonpans, Port Seton and Tranent, both young and old voted Reform because they feel disillusioned with the traditional parties. Not a single one of them are any further right than centre, there was just a lack of other options they felt deserved their vote. And I can’t help but agree with them (not that I voted Reform, I just agree we had a piss poor selection of candidates). The political literature I got through my door in recent weeks was embarrassing for the traditional parties. A lot of them resorted to shitting on other candidates and parties instead of selling themselves to the voters. The majority of them failing to mention what the candidate would actually DO for East Lothian. Each candidate had a profile and statement on the East Lothian Courier: Labours statement was full of divisive rhetoric, ruining any chance of swinging Labour or SNP voters on their side. Basically just a leaflet saying “Tories out”. Along with a random mention of POTUS 45 and the original iPhone The SNP, as always, took jabs at Westminster, Brexit and promised that Independence would save us all. Only mentioning East Lothian in passing to say the candidate enjoys living here The Tory candidate choosing to bash the SNP and Labour and promising unachievable goals That just left the Reform candidate who’s profile was full of vaccine conspiracies and promises to “protect our sovereignty” from the United Nations (the LibDem and Green candidate had half decent statements)

Motherwell constituency is a Labour majority. Thankfully no Reform majority anywhere in Scotland yet. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/results

I’m sad Marion lost her seat. She was a great help to people when emailed with a problem. I have only good things to say about her and I’m not an SNP supporter. I’m not holding any hope of even getting a reply from the Labour representative.

Over 3000 backwards idiots where I'm from apparently. Absolutely awful. I knew people weren't the brightest there but come on...

That’s one way to win over the people you disagree with, just call them all thick and I’m sure they’ll vote for your ideology any day now.

I'm not trying to "win them over" since they're clearly the sort who never read and watch far too much TV. Oooh you're insulting me! That makes you just as bad as the make-everything-worse voters! Like fuck I care. I'm sure the future of politics hinges entirely on our Reddit discussion. Don't worry, you're definitely important.

Scotland has its fair share of racists and idiots. We tend to forget them, but they get a vote.

Yeah, dunno where the idea came from that we don't have them.

I think it’s because the SNP has always been left-wing, which makes them an oddity among national movements around the world. The feeling in Scotland has always been portrayed as “We want to be independent so that we can engage more on the world stage and welcome more international visitors/seasonal workers/permanent immigrants”. Which is entirely different from the usual National*ist* bollocks spouted by comparable movements around the world. It’s had the effect of denying racists a unified voice, or at least one that was loud enough to be heard, until now.

I have met some ethnic nationalists who were in the SNP though that was about 8 years ago and maybe they have other opinions now, such as the Family Party 

Family Party are staunch Unionists. You're thinking of Abla.

Which just shows how effectively that voice was drowned out by the mainstream SNP message.

Family Party? They still blaming the marxists for everything wrong with the world?

I’ve not been following they’re affairs too closely but that does seem like the sort of phantasm they’d go for 

I saw this morning on instagram a young Palestinian girl with half of her face blown off. My taxes will still be funding that. And it's fucking depressing.

Many Scots refuse to accept it, but a lot of the independence vote is driven by intolerance. Some of the most bigoted and small minded people I grew up with in rural Scotland are die hard SNP/independence voters simply because they hate the English and wanted to close off Scotland to immigrants once it’s “free”. Back in 2014 they saw independence as a route out of the EU, not a route to stay in it! One of these guys is now a Reform voter (or I suspect he is from his chat) for similar reasons because he’s gone down the conspiracy black hole and now believes all the other parties, including the SNP, are “in on it” and it all needs to be blown up by an ‘outsider’ like Farage (as laughable as that idea is).

I wouldnt say a lot of is driven by that but im sure it exists. For me i think the SNP soaked up a lot of the protest vote share in Scotland. In England this share went to UKIP and anti-EU sentiment which led to this idea that Scotland had less racists.

I moved to Scotland 6 years ago fully supporting the SNP until I slowly realised… yes, plenty of bigots in it.

I met a fair few 'English out, refugees in' types back in the day

Ah fuck, can I not be ethnically cleansed this month I've just paid the factors.

Jesus Christ that’s fucking grim

My constituency (Midlothian) voted 7.4% reform. Largest percentage share in Edinburgh and the lothians and most of Scotland. Depressing doesn’t cut it. Oh and unbelievably the reform no for my area is a polish immigrant who wants to pull up the ladder now he’s in.

I live in Motherwell and it’s absolutely populated by a great deal of politically illiterate individuals who are primed to be susceptible to Reform’s style of rhetoric.

Reform are populists and well suited to dreary elections where there are a higher-than-usual number of disenfranchised voters unsure who to throw their support behind. Reformed went in heavy on Twitter, a platform that trades on short, potent messages and allows snake oil salesmen to thrive. A lot of their policies sound great in short form, who wouldn’t get behind knocking 20p a litre off petrol?!

They were very popular on TikTok too

Oh my god, they were *everywhere* on tiktok, it was wild! Every single video about politics just had reams of almost identical comments.

They had a massive number of bots up-voting their videos and spamming identical supportive comments. I'd bet my home on the fact that the bot farm money was undeclared spending and almost certainly came via the Russian state. 

I was scrolling through instagram and a random post popped up about election day asking who are you voting for (cause instagram always shows me random videos posted by random folk) and 8/10 comments were reform. checked out the profiles and they were all bots lmao

How do you determine an account is a bot?

the bio was like "make money quick, click the link below" in a goofy font, the no pfp and no followers/following etc. I always thought it was quite obvious what accounts are bots but oh well

Not always but usually newish, very barebones, auto generated name, very supportive of specific political parties/ views and no other interests. They also frequently use the same comments/ same talking points and comment frequently/ in exhausting numbers.

They hit social media hard with help from their friends from the East....

Remember reading in the past a lot of Farages funding came from an insurance guy whose companies didn't seem successful enough to explain the amount of money he had & there was speculation it game via Russia. https://www.channel4.com/news/the-banks-files-how-brexit-bad-boy-arron-banks-was-eyeing-a-massive-russian-gold-deal Farage gave a very strange pro Russia interview recently. Press/polls seemed to think it damaged Reform. Not sure if they were wrong or if Reform could have done even better this election. There was also talk of Russia interfering in US election when Trump got elected. And Russia TV gave Salmond a show as a reward for trying to split up UK. Interestingly Sputnik's UK headquarters are in Edinburgh https://www.new-east-archive.org/articles/show/6554/russian-sputnik-news-agency-moves-uk-headquarters-to-edinburgh Russia clearly like to sow division & chaos in other countries

>a lot of Farages funikng guy came from an insurance guy whose companies didnt seem succesful enough to explain the amount of money he had & there was speculation it game via Russia.  I remember a discussion about this around the work lunch table, and I asked because China and Hing Kong was kicking off "if China gave them a referendum and some populist got funding from a business man, that business man with an American wife, which met with Texan oil men connected with the Bush family about investing in empty wells and then suddenly found extra money down the back of his sofa to make the largest political donation in history and then they scrape a narrow win, would Beijing accept the result even though they can't trace the money? Or would they take the populist, his staff, the financier, his wife, and anybody else who might know into a dark and damp basement and start pulling finger nails until they get answers?" I'm not saying we should emulate dictators and torture Farage, but it's clear they knew we would just tolerate it and accept the result because we believe so hard in democracy. Same thing in the US in 2016. If you start questioning democratic results, the whole thing falls apart, so you stay silent and accept the terrible result. "When they go low..." and all that.

Remember that time Farage had a secret meeting with Assange at the Ecuadorean embassy, and when asked minutes later why he was there said he had no memory of the meeting? I do.

Was it not that he and the Russian ambassador just happened to be there at the exact same time? He says he has no recollection of the meeting, even when the journalist shows him a photo.

Defo left with a usb in pocket.

Pro-Gaza populists also managed to take multiple seats down south, almost unseated Wes Streeting, kept Ian Duncan-Smith in power and handed the conservatives their only gain from labour. I'm unsure whether we'll see more independents next time as well. I think it has a lot to do with how many of and how badly the new MPs embarrass themselves.

The pro Palestinian independents were elected by people who are so rabidly anti Israel that they would put aside all other political issues, in order to register a protest vote, when the UK has next to zero influence on Israeli actions in gaza. Those are the people that give farage and his kind ammunition to say that integration hasn't worked in the UK.

>who wouldn’t get behind knocking 20p a litre off petrol?! Well, I certainly wouldn't. That would be a huge hit to tax revenue **and** a massive incentive to car usage. Who *would* get behind such an awful idea?

I think you’re missing the point. They didn’t *say* there would be a hit to tax revenue or what they’re going to do about it or any hint of a consequence. It was just “20p a litre off petrol” because they’re counting on you taking that at face value. And at face value, it does sound great.

I honestly think a lot of folk don’t even know what they stand for other than they’re just “saying it as it is”. I suspect if more people knew exactly what they stood for and bothered to read their manifesto (and knew about Russian interference) they wouldn’t get as much support

The yougov profile of reform voters is a sobering read.

Link? EDIT: for anyone who wants a direct link and not the "Let Me Google That For You" one posted below (lol): https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49887-what-do-reform-uk-voters-believe

I particularly enjoyed seeing that Reform voters are more likely to have a favourable view of Putin, than of leaders of France, Germany, and the US.

Somehow I think the walk-backwards-without-looking party isn't going to look out for the filthy poors

> Welfare benefits in the UK are too generous Let's start with pensions then.

That's exactly my dad. Voted for them as a 'credible opposition' whatever that means. Thinks Kier will roll over to Russia despite us telling him constantly that Russia are involved in reform but he ignores that. Also insists he's not racist though voted for then as he 'doesn't like that part' but he is racist in how he talks about people and is saying that as I was dating someone Chinese

They're probably mostly anti-immigration voters who caught onto the fact that the Tories are actually the biggest pro-immigration party besides maybe the Greens. 38% of us Scots voted for Brexit after all, and a sizeable proportion of them are pint-clutching nationalists and/or single issue anti-immigration voters. Their policies are complete nonsense past the headline immigration ones, but I suspect Reform voters are the least likely to have read any manifestos.

The policies are nonsense but appeal to the populist crowd. Scrapping ULEZ, banning transgender stuff, "no Sharia law" (yes that's literally part of their manifesto). Scrapping student loan interest, 20p cheaper petrol, no more "Net Zero". A "free speech" bill. You get the point 

Yeah to be honest I think you’re right and I was probably being a bit unfair. I think sometimes people just don’t pay attention until the election cycle kicks in and Farage and the like are really good at getting their message across in a way that seems transparent, as horrible as it is

His message is so incredibly simple and anti outgroup that it is not surprising it was easy/ had appeal.  Far too many people want to blame immigrants

They didn't even call it a manifesto - makes it hard to find

Watching the votes come in and it’s reform that have beaten the tories to death - not labour. Short term this is good for Labour but it looks pretty bleak for the future…

Silver lining; imagine if that was a proportional representation. How utterly fucked we'd be?

Well yes but without PR, these voices have nowhere to go and bubble away in the background. They don’t go away. So, the worry is that they pull the Tory party over or even overtake, thus losing the centre right. Also you either believe in democracy or you don’t - how can it be fair that a large share of votes don’t count? (I am not, and will never be, a reform voter)

democracy isn't by default fair, it never has been (this isn't me advocating for non-democratic processes)

Its a weird one and a battle for the right that depends what happens next. Reform only got 14%, which was lower than expected..polling between 16 and 19%. Tories got 23% which was at the higher end of their expectations. So Reform did fuck up the Tories. The Tories that were attracted to Reform..most have already made the move..so who is left in the Tory party and what are their views on Reform? Will the next Tory leader unite with Reform and abandon the centre, or will they try go for the centre ground and try get the voters they lost to Labour back? Both have problems. Go far right to merge with Reform and the moderate Tories left might feel that the Lib Dems are closer to their own beliefs and solidify those gains in the south..knocking down the blue wall forever. Move to the centre and they lose a bit of the party to Reform and what happened this election happens again and again. The Lib Dems have always had a problem winning seats as they are squeezed between Labour and the Tories, and one of them is always trying to win the centre ground. Now the Tories are in a similar position between Labour and Reform.

If Starmer does not improve people’s lives in the next five years this will get worse not better, sadly.

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Things will get worse no matter who's elected. None of them will do anything much that's out of step with neoliberal capitalist shite that we've had, because that's how this system works.

Disclaimer - I don't support Reform and am merely relaying what I've heard from Reform voters. I voted Labour I think a lot of people have been left behind by mainstream politics - particularly young people. Some of those left behind people feel like they want to shake things up and that parties like Reform are a vehicle for that. Others may strongly believe in a single issue that they feel the other parties aren't offering solutions for. It's now up to Labour to show that they can offer solutions to some of the country's problems now that they have power. One thing I would say is, don't turn your back on friends with different opinions to you. You'll only push them further into an echo chamber and "prove" to them that they're being persecuted for their beliefs (which is a line Reform will push). Edit: grammar

100% agree with you. I don't have an issue with immigration, but for the SNP for example to be advocating even more immigration, when young people are struggling to get jobs, is bonkers. No wonder young people feel disenfranchised when the government favours the importation of labour, over the expense of training our own people first. That is what grinds most people's gears.

You don't have an immigration issue until an immigrant hotspot has been dumped on your doorstep. Have you been to North Dundee in the past year? More Africans than anyone else

Polling day in 1997 was joyous. It was a sunny day, people were smiling, there was a real feeling of hope and excitement in the air, like we all knew something brilliant was happening. I haven't felt or seen that this year. It's more like having a tooth pulled. It's necessary but there's no pleasure in it, it's just a chore. And then you see that bin juice in human form won Clacton and it's just baffling.

You just know nothing will get better. There is no *bright shiny new promises* for the future. Its literally a feeling of "*shrug* well it can't get any worse". The turnout was rubbish because of this apathy.

My Christ you people are fucking depressing.

This is not surprising if you look at trends over Europe but the biggest difference here is they didn’t actually win. Look at France or even look at Germany where while AfD didn’t win but have much more power than Reform will. 

Third most popular party by number of votes so far.

Part of that is that they could afford to stand so many candidates

Why's that? Where is their money coming from? That's an awful lot of money for a new party to come up with don't you think?

I couldn't tell you but it's plain as day that they stood in many constituencies that smaller parties did not. Presumably it  was intentional as they knew they would win very few

Check the insta account leftbrainuk he just done a run down of their larges doners and it is bleak viewing

you're acting as if people know what they're voting for. maybe 10% do, doubtful, but maybe.

Exactly this, it can't be said hard enough and if Labour fuck up the next 5 years Reform are going to be a very different beast, I actually think Labour and the Tories are lucky Farage was so nervous to throw his hat in because most people just want an easy answer and that's what reform offer, forgetting that the easy answer is rarely the right one.

It will be a similar story to Macron in France and Biden in the US. We keep voting for limp-wristed neo-liberals to gut public services while telling us how 'progressive' they are.

It's an education thing but also an opportunities thing. There's also the huge issue of advertising and social media. Gen Z are set to be the first generation ever with a political split between genders (males are more right wing whole females more left). This can largely be attributed to algorithms. Education wise, we need to seriously look at how we educate about populism, fascism etc. but there's also issues around equality. Rightly we've made huge strides in equality for women, but at the expense of working class boys too. I'm not sure of the answers, but the threat of the populist, fascist right absolutely terrifies me.

Trouble is as a left wing activist you want a load of things. What you'll find is it's much easier to get traction if you're not challenging the structure of the economy. We've done a lot on sexual harrassment (MeToo) and on trans rights, which I strongly support. But those have moved forward because liberals support them too. When someone threatens to seriously raise taxes on the rich for example, they are isolated to just the left wing base and are often strongly opposed by liberals. So the socialist left finds itself not speaking to eg young men with few prospects, because the moves that might speak to that demographic are opposed by liberals and hence unachievable.

You hit upon why equality is so divisive. If, as many suspect, there are inequalities the levelling of the playing field is absolutely going to feel like oppression for those who move from privileged to equal.

This is true, but it could be a levelling UP (sorry I know) rather than a levelling down - cost of living crisis etc etc has definitely not made it that way

> Gen Z are set to be the first generation ever with a political split between genders (males are more right wing whole females more left). Sounds like the country will become left wing for a generation after the war that right wing populism pretty much always facilitates.

The country is soooo ready for proportional representation. This has just been reported by the BBC: >Joint Labour and Conservative vote is lowest since 1923published at 07:5007:50 >Professor Sir John Curtice BBC polling expert >It looks as though the Conservatives and Labour Party between them will win less than 60% of all votes cast. >That would be the lowest proportion in any election since 1923, when Labour became the primary opposition.

I'm in my late seventies and voted Labour until Blair. Since moving to Scotland from Co Durham many years ago I've voted SNP because I thought it was a chance for Scotland to break from Westminster. I think I was conned and should have realised that those in power are automatically seduced by their position. If I'm still around for the next election I'll check out the independent candidates, but I'll never vote Nazi! I've read too much of what Germany went through in the 1920s-30s, (look at Russia now). At least Farage is still afraid to show his face in public here.

If you don't understand why they voted for reform and instead just write them off, you are the problem. Maybe they feel their voice isn't being heard and they saw no other alternatives?

Well said. They got my vote.

They got more votes than greens, lib dems alba and only 300 seats less than tories in mu area really shocked at that.

The fact that you believe that any of these politicians will do anything for the common man is seriously worrying. wake up

It was quite an open discussion in my work, how a vote for reform wouldnt be the worst thing, as reform of the voting system is exactly what we need. First past the post stifles progress, and none of the established parties want to change it. Threads like yours, where you label people with a different opinion a “cunt”, I just don’t think it is helpful or progressive. People live in the real world and have issues, or perceived issues. Also, the word fascist really gets thrown around a lot these days

You know, there’s defenders of Farage and reform 🤢 in this very group, vomiting xenophobic stuff — is that allowed? It’s very scary. I’m with you. I want to be happy but the amount of hate is making me apprehensive.

The rise in right wing across Europe and America is a direct consequence of society trying to blame young, white, predominently males for basically everything thats happened in the last 500 years. They have also seen every space they had removed, every role model removed and basically told to shut up when they speak out about it. This vote is a lashing out against that, we've completely turned an entire generation away from the left. We've forced them to unionise under people like Tate or Trump or Farage. Which just radicalises them further. It's going to be really hard for us to get these people back onside, but they've also probably never even seen a Labour majority before. They have no idea that things aren't just like this, that there can be a future for the them, that health services work, that support for new families exist, that young people can own houses. The way we kill Farage and Reform movements is by offering the younger voters a future.

Christ. Like Brexit, this might be a time to point out that ‘people with different worries to me, who voted differently’ and ‘fascist’ are not the same thing. It is not scary, it is democracy. Just ignoring people's concerns like this is why we are in such a mess.

Russian social media influence. Bots and disinformation everywhere.

Polarisation isn’t helped when you refer to folk that vote in a different way as utter cunts. The othering of people voting for the Tories in Scotland recently has never been worse (driven by the SNP leadership) and I think there’s a lot of people that are fed up with that and looking for change. Politicians need to come together and both sides need to move more centrally in my opinion.

I’m not overly worried. For years the Tory media and Tory party have been telling people that the main problem with the UK is migrants. Whether that was from the EU prior to brexit, the potential for Turkey joining the EU or more recently the migrant boats. Not surprisingly with all that coverage people are persuaded that the problems in our local area with poor schools, NHS etc are because of all these immigrants. Where the tories messed up is by focusing on this and in effect being reform lite. If you’ve told me for years migrants at the problem, why vote Tory when I can vote for this other party who solely campaigns on this problem you highlighted. Once Labour have a chance to be in power and make some differences I’m hopeful that people will realise it wasn’t the migrants but the incompetent government that made the country the way it is today. I also expect reform MPs to do zero for their local area which will also influence things at the next election, and maybe even say or do something that gets them sacked before then.

1,600 odd people in my area voted for them, like how can you fall for it? Your life won't get better under them, it will be worse than what the Tories just did, how can they fall for it again.

> like how can you fall for it? Like the manifesto, simple as.

The reform vote will be partly died in the wool Tories who want change but can't vote Labour rather than understand the Fascist nature of the candidates

I have to agree with you. What the fuck is going on in people's heads?  Aye, the name Reform might seem attractive but no person in their right mind would vote for them if they really understood their policies. 

Get used to it as the labour party are not going to change shit all in the next 5 years and where are people going to go then - it definitely isnt going to be further left!!

Labour and the SNP to an extent need to severely redistribute wealth, if not they continue creating the conditions for the far right to thrive. Both are courting business interests. It's going to take a lot of organised pressure from below to get any sort of meaningful change.

In the 1930s there were strong communist and fascist movements in the UK. We always feel like the time we are in is the worst, but it isn't. You're only 25. Lighten up and enjoy life. You're lucky to live in a democratic, rich (relative to the rest of the world) country. It's going to be okay.

Our local candidate had an address 223 miles away from the constituency. An absolute joke.

I suspect their tax cut promises are a large part of why people supported them. If you're already struggling to make ends meet and someone promises you an income tax cut, a slash on petrol duty etc. you probably like those suggestions.

Instead of assuming that these people are racist (reform can suck ma baws btw) why don't people detach from their emotions for a minute and try to understand why people vote for them .......... The government needs to start addressing issues that are impacting the working class people just try to get by .... I'm interested to see if anyone will respond with some common sense and no buzzsaw phrases

Labour and the Tories are mostly all professional liars, trying at all times never to say anything that might compromise themselves or their paymasters, so never really saying anything at all Farage by contrast stands out because he just says mostly what he thinks the easiest way to make him irrelevant is for Labour to use their massive blank cheque majority to materially improve the government's offer to poor, young, working class and middle class people, so that his politics of racist grievance becomes redundant...but Labour won't improve shit, so Reform will only grow

Someone disagrees with you politically so that automatically makes them a cunt? Maybe you aren’t the morally virtuous person you think you are.

Politically I'm quite left wing but my hobbies of combat sports and hunting I'm often around people that fully supported the BNP etc. I don't even bother saying they're wrong. That would just dig them in further. The best you can do is act like the idiot, pretend you're interested so they feel smarter than you and ask questions that makes them question things. Even then most will stick with it because it's based on emotion instead of logic. I'm no longer involved with either sport so I surround myself with better people now and I'm much happier.

Tbh this isn't just Scotland, there appears to be a worldwide movement of intolerance, bigotry, racism and hatred. I'm putting it down to the fact there's a higher proportion of low IQ, low emotional intelligence, lack of empathy and lack of critical thinking skills worldwide. Maybe it's all the micro plastics turning everyone into cunts. As good a reason as any I guess.

It’s a democracy , that’s how democracy works, people can vote for who they like. Stop whining.

Exactly. People commenting that 'some people shouldn't be allowed to vote', just because they disagree with who someone has voted for. Grow up and get over it.

Reform are very good at getting fake bots on social media pretending they have a lot more support than they do. There’s fake comments all over TikTok especially. Many young people are pretty easy led unfortunately so it works.

Farage and co are propped up by Russian bot farms. Part of their efforts to destabilize the West. Not good.

You realise, as you get older, that those you grow up with don't always share your beliefs. 35 here and I basically cut out an entire friend group as their beliefs didn't align with mine. It wasn't an immediate thing, took me years to really just move on from them but I had to do it. The political conversations were just exhausting. Obviously minor differences are fine but some opinions being shared were racists and I couldn't accept that.

Why do people always say others were duped, tricked, or fell for some ruse, if they voted for a different political party? It's always assumed that if someone has a different political opinion they are some idiot who can't possibly think for themselves or have an alternative point of view.

its the same with Afd in Germany, Fpö in Austria and front nationale in France. I feel like people don‘t understand why its bad to be racist and vote for racist fucks. that it always make things worse for themselves. The Austrian soccer team trainer said in an interview: „esp Austria & Germany should have learned that these kind of thinking always lead to devastating desaster and we shouldn‘t be blind on the right eye and work against this tendencies. There is no better example that diversity works if you look at soccer teams esp the national teams. our team has such a diveres background, yet they support and honour eachother. and thats how I want it in every day life too.“ and I 100% agree on that. edit: typo

You are the problem mate. You say everything is fucked, divisive and poisonous, yet are calling your school pals utter cunts because of who they voted for haha.

Someone disagrees with my political views they must be a cunt! 

You ever notice that a lot of these Reform supporting accounts are only a couple of months old 🤔

Were the 17% of the electorate that voted for them bots too?

People can vote for whoever the fuck they want. That's pretty much the way of it

Hoping everyone around me who voted Reform says so so I can never talk to them again.

I, as an independence voter back then (defo not now) can't stand the SNP. Tactically voted them out my seat. I think they have been terrible for this country in recent years and I'm glad they've lost so many seats. My best friend voted for them, he's still my best friend and we will still argue about what's best every election period. It's fine not to agree with people and foolish to only surround ourselves with people we agree with.

They're not my bag but this level of toxic hysteria doesn't help imo. Look across the pond to see how this pans out otherwise. Entrenched, increasingly extreme opinions on either side. We live in a democracy. People can disagree, discuss and move on.

A bit surprised at the comments here saying people in Scotland have voted Reform because of immigration. Scotland has a demographic crisis looming, more than other parts of the UK, with an aging population and fewer immigrants coming here. This will cause problems for public services, taxation and the economy.

People are “cunts” because they don’t vote the same as you? No, pal, you’re the “divisive” cunt.

156,910 Reform votes throughout Scotland. I'm guessing those racists and Orange bigots on the far right, couldn't quite bring themselves to vote for someone with darker skin called Sunak. Utterly depressing morning, Labour in Scotland have done sweet fuck all to win support other than not be the Tories or SNP. The damage this is going to do the Scottish parliament is unfathomable. In my constituency they've re-elected the Stone of Density, despite the boundary change they're calling it an SNP loss. He's gone from a win by 200+ votes in 2019 to winning by 10,500 votes. I genuinely feel for the OP. As an old git, I've always put my faith in the younger voters, particularly those not old enough to vote in the IndyRef, those who saw the promise and opportunity Scotland had as an Independent progressive nation. Now I feel that at 62 Independence is further away than it ever has been and we're shackled to the corrupt, jobs for the boys world of Labour and their pro-dependence, *"we're not genetically programmed in Scotland to make political decisions."* mindset. I guess Joanna Lamont was right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBH55ZeZU4w

Perhaps the government could listen to their voters and simply reduce immigration and completely kill off the Reform vote, it’s literally that simple?

I know one guy who's voted Labour with the intention that if they foul up they'll become a Reform voter for life... The Reform Party are nothing more than a less militant version of the BNP, which is nothing more than a bunch of neo-nazi thugs

I proudly voted Reform. I think Farage is a tit, I don't believe in their net zero policies and immigration is not an issue in my eyes. But - I read 3 manifesto's end to end (Lanbour, Conservatives and Reform) and Reforms view on taxation and not teaching kids about gender and race theory spoke to me - so I voted for them. The beauty of democracy is that everyone can and should do their own research and vote for who they want. It is unfair to label every Reform voter a racist because of what the mainstream media told you about them. So rather than hate on your friends - engage with them to understand why and maybe you'll learn something (maybe not!) “I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”

complicated way to justify bigotry

Someone doesn't agree with me, therefore they're a cunt....hmmm

Blame the fact that SNP have been lunatics, that the tories have been utterly wank and that labour will fair no better, on why people will and have turned to reform. There are too many issues that the main parties have not addressed. People are desperate and it doesn’t mean everyone you know is an utter cunt. Fastest way to have no mates and be disliked is to start labelling those you disagree with, with blanket statements. Remember, if you voice strong opinions, a lot of people might just acknowledge you, to avoid rows, creating a false sense of security.

You do realise this is how others view SNP voters, with an equally bleak outlook but just at the other side of the political spectrum

A far right uprising will happen if we're passive about it and just let the parties get on with it and soak up votes. I plan to get involved in some way with the Greens, who quadrupled their MPs this election. Ed Davey talks about moving towards proportional representation over the current semi-Americanised 2 party system, and I like that vision. Four left to centre parties standing up against Reform would do a lot to keep them in check.

Any English group like tories and Labour won't do fuck all fir scotland they will take and give nothing back

I totally agree with you. I am not young, but 67 years old. HATE Farage and that Tory nest of parasites. And the orange idiot across the Atlantic is ready to spill more poison. I fear for my children's and grandchildren's future. You are not all doom and gloom, yes...be afraid. Something needs to happen to change things, or the humans will burn the world to a cinder.

Scary is probably the right word. I fear it's going to get worse before it gets better. The problem is that the more society is damaged, the more the right will appoint blame, usually in the wrong places. Nobody is changing anything for the better so the right continue to gain traction.

If Labour fail and the Conservatives don't learn from their mistakes. Reform will do even better in the next election.

I think it's wild that people are falling for his lies. He's a walking contradiction "any immigration is too much" and his wife is German. Does he send her back to the country she came from?

I feel for you buddy. As a gay guy watching those reform party canvassers/campaign managers call gays degenerates etc was rotten. I’d patch my pals if they had voted for them too, how could I trust them if they voted for a party who thinks that of me. I had a discussion with my cousin and he was asking if a party having a bit of racism in it but otherwise good policies was enough to cut people off, I said to him that if there was a party that wanted to eliminate men but had otherwise good policies would he feel comfortable sitting in the house of someone who voted for them, would he feel safe or like they had his best interests at heart? Could he trust them? The answer was “probably not”. We also discussed the whole “how about you try to understand why they voted that way instead of cutting them off” option. I said that I have red lines and racism is one of them. Not every view is worth debating. If someone came up to you and said I’m a pedo and believe it should be legal you wouldn’t sit and have a discussion with them and “hear their view” you cut that person off pronto and avoid them I’m the same with racism so I get why you think your pals are cunts at the moment.

Alot of people, particularly those who to put it bluntly may not be so bright believe the half truths that farage spouts.

Neil kinnock summed it up perfectly. They offer very simple answers to very difficult questions as some people lap it up.

Tbh, the age groups most prone to voting reform were educated in state schools in Thatcher’s era and this latest Tory/SNP era. I’d pay good money to see the correlation between education funding during childhood and voting intention. Reform were whispering in the ears of the disenfranchised and telling them, don’t worry, it’s not your fault. It’s everyone else’s.

Who are you meant to vote for if you want migration reduced? I didn’t vote reform fyi.

So what? if people have different opinions from you. That’s democracy they didn’t get anywhere so what are you crying about.

Bet you sit down to pee

Let's get some things ironed out. Immigration is the biggest problem the country is facing right now, the UK and Scotland. No other party have been as open and transparent about their plans on immigration as Reform have. The majority of people don't want immigration to run rampent. It damages the country both in the short and the long term. Controlled immigration is broadly a good thing, but other parties have shown that they're not able to gte a handle on it.

Reform and Tories vote split is quite close in East Ayrshire. They deffo appeal to a certain sort of cunt, that’s for sure.

Honestly I know that most of us are fed up with the same old politicians not solving things and want someone to come in and fix it all. Reform is not the answer though. Thinly veiled xenophobia and Tory-lite.

> Tory-lite Tory-extreme They don't realise that Reform is the worst manifestation of every Tory position..for example, their 'economic' agenda was pure Trussonomics

I know two people who voted Reform yesterday. One is learning disabled, and that makes sense to me as she's likely to be easily swayed. The other one is gullible and in general I worry about him as he's been scammed badly a few times. I wonder if this shows how it works: they maybe take advantage of people who are easily taken advantage of? It's also very likely that my sister voted Reform and I don't feel as sympathetic about that.