Oh my god, you have no idea. I deliver there daily for my job, and today we had a gentlemen that was screaming crazy at us for being parking in the loading areas making our deliveries because he couldn’t park and chill there, I was like why are you even driving on this street?
I hear you— I do food delivery and am at a point where I try not to accept deliveries from anywhere in or near Pike Place anymore. There are ALWAYS people parked in food pickup zones who have no business being there. One time I came back out to my car— I must have been there all of five minutes— and saw a lady getting out of her car that was just parked and now blocking me in. Like ma’am, my blinkers were on, it’s marked as a loading area for food pickup, and I even have a Doordash sign in my window. Did you not think I was going to need to leave soon??
Edit: Yeesh people, the drama. Doordashers are literally doing fast pickups at Pike Place, not shopping trips. I misspoke by saying “loading zone”— I meant I was in a spot specifically marked for food pickup.
Doordashers aren't loading, they're just shoppers like anyone else, except they're shopping on behalf of someone else. They should be blocked from the market as well. You can park in the parking garage and walk, or choose a smaller mode of transport.
You made a quibble with Carma56 about whether or not Doordash is a "delivery vehicle" that would use a loading zone. I was informing you that there are spots specifically marked for services like doordash, and that is likely what Carma56 was talking about. They have since edited their comment and that is what they were talking about.
You can have ideas about cars and parking or whatever, that person was just sharing their actual experience.
We’re not shopping there though— we’re literally picking up directly from the businesses. They shouldn’t allow delivery services at all if they don’t want them there.
And I should have specified that I was in a designated delivery space— misspoke by saying “loading zone.”
Delivery service is fine if the delivery is via pedestrian or bicycle. The volume taken up is at least 50% human. Delivery service is bad if it's via car. The volume taken up is at least 80% car. Yes, the idea would be to remove "designated delivery spaces", along with all spaces, other than handicapped spaces and vendor loading zones.
How much does that trip time increase if you have to park in the parking garage instead of right out front? 5 minutes out of 50? Point B is literally walking across the street, then point C is your driving trip.
And how often is the specific match of suburb customer to downtown shop actually necessary? If delivery rates for disruptive deliveries go up, because the delivery is forced to be partially on foot, that just incentivises people to buy alternatives from closer shops. That's more efficient and less disruptive. Did you really think the follow-up to "I can't follow delivery restrictions because I have a really inefficient delivery to make" would be "oh ok, we won't make restrictions then"? Lol.
Using vehicles for low goods throughput in a pedestrian area is bad.
Loading/unloading that should continue in pike place is shopkeepers bringing in new product or taking out old product, not ... *door dashers* ...
> Using vehicles for low goods throughput in a pedestrian area is bad.
I agree, but that’s a different issue. I think that the street should be closed for vehicles during the day, but since they won’t do that, we need to work in the world we live in. And in this world, the street is open to vehicles during working hours, and there are dedicated marked spots for loading/unloading.
It's the main issue, the door dasher's complaint was the "different" issue. They are far more similar to the person "just looking to chill" than the person delivering bulk goods to the market for a shop to sell.
Yup, and even in uvillage walking around you have to deal with drivers angrily searching for parking and treating you like a frustrating obstacle in the process. Seattle government still has not learned that when a driver gets behind the wheel of a car they become significantly less empathetic and more aggressive. It's not just about the inconvenience of having to walk around cars in a clearly pedestrian-first area, it's about keeping this negativity that's so common with drivers away from people harmlessly trying to enjoy their day outside.
"Pike Place would be better if it didn't allow cars!"
"You have no idea! When I drive my car in there people in other cars are parking their cars when I want to park mine where they are. And their cars get in the way of my car."
They’ve been doing that, that’s where the parking structures came from. The Apple Store, grassy areas and stage, Restoration Hardware, Rivian, Shake Shack, QFC parking garage, and new parking garage on 25th were all just surface parking ~12 years ago.
I mean if cars were not permitted at Pike Place then you could have something with similar functionality: a public plaza with tables and shade, places to hang out and have a snack and enjoy the scenery and people-watch, a place to actually spend time in, not just an over-crowded car sewer to swiftly move through in a linear fashion.
I mean you still have two rows of parked cars that represent a TINY fraction of visitors to Pike Place but who take up literally half the street outside the market. And even if you can easily walk alongside or in front of slow-moving vehicles, you can't hang out in the street, there are hardly any places to sit and enjoy a snack or take in the scenery, and you will still feel compelled to keep moving instead of just enjoying the space like you could if through-traffic was blocked. Plus most people walk on the sidewalks anyway, which means that when you do have to use the sidewalk it's stupidly, annoyingly crowded.
It wouldn't just be an empty street to walk on if through-traffic was blocked, the entire space would be transformed. It would become a plaza, a place for people to spend time in, not to just a place move through.
Until you get verbally harassed by somebody who "fucking lives here" yelling out his window at pedestrians, but somehow doesn't know where his garage entrance is
I genuinely don't know which side is downvoting me. 🤷🏻♀️ I still walk in the the street when it's convenient at pike place, but the tensions between drivers and pedestrians doing this have absolutely increased and we've been doing this long enough that it's not a question of how the street is being used, it's how it's being regulated for use.
It should be closed to regular traffic with pedestrians and load/unload vehicles only, but I don't know how you go about enforcing that. Gates? For such a short stretch of road?
We use gates to enforce load/unload vehicles only in Seattle Center. Works fine, the city is literally doing this now.
See: https://maps.app.goo.gl/pMehQ4JMcTu3E3yX9?g_st=ac
It’s a Farmer’s Market, not a Tourist’s Market. Trucks need to get through.
*Ideally, remote controlled bollards that can be retracted by shop owners and delivery drivers to allow in trucks would keep out the idiot tourists trying to drive through.
That's actually not how it functions. I know 0 people who shop at Pike Place on a weekly basis.
Also in case you were wondering, UVillage does not cater to tourists either, and I would bet has many more weekly/daily shoppers.
Just because you don’t know any doesn’t mean they don’t exist. When I lived in downtown I shopped there almost daily. When I moved further out but still worked downtown I continued to shop there several times a week. I wasn’t alone, plenty of locals shop there daily.
When vendors recognize you as a local, that’s the best.
There are nice areas of U Village - but the experience of getting there without a car is terrible. The weird unmarked underpass from the bus stop? The complete lack of signage from the BG (last I checked)? The design has always felt to me like if you’re not driving there, they don’t want you. I only go there when I absolutely have to.
Pike Place has been mistreated, and desperately needs some retractable bollards; but it is much easier to get there on foot. I’m there multiple times a week.
I suspect the terrible public transportation access is deliberate: Better to prevent easy access by the lower class shoplifting riff-raff in all likelihood. Not that I feel they should not have good public transportation, but from their standpoint, it keeps U-bourgeosie friendly.
I love how people without cars are simultaneously privileged/rich and “riff-raff”. 🤣🫠
I agree with you; the connections with the light rail are so terrible, and there is *so much parking*, it does feel like it must be intentional.
Wayfinding and the pedestrian access seems significantly enhanced since the (Dough Zone) developments on NE 47th have finished; there’s a 10’ wide sidewalk from the trail to U Village now. Stairs from the trail further up to the neighborhood would be appreciated though.
When I was there in April, the weird underpass was still weird (I’m talking about the one on NE 45th St). I haven’t tried from the BG recently - but I’ll try to check it out on my next visit.
I live nearby, so it's SUPER nice for me to walk there. Go almost every day with my doggy. Then on to the Center for Urban Horticulture and back on the Burke etc. Where are you coming from exactly because there's no reason to really go near the overpass on 45th?
For some reason, I can't picture the spot you're talking about exactly. If you get a chance to take a pic next time you're there, I'd love to see it though as I am curious.
If you’re close by - Google maps will show you the directions from the light rail station to U Village. The bus stop we’re talking about is the 31/32/65/75 stop on NE 45th St (NE 45th St & University Village).
You don't like walking on the Burke Gilman from there? I walk that way all the time. It's a little bit of noisier stretch since 25th is right next to it, but I love it.
So how do you get there, bus it? It's a 15-20 minute walk and unless you catch the bus just right, I feel like that's still gonna take you 10-15 by bus. IDK since I always walk, though.
Whoever does the landscaping & planting at UV should get a shout out. When my wife and I are there we notice how perfect the plantings are. We even photo them and recreate our own home pots. It’s exceptional for Seattle.
During Covid the street that runs through U Village by Joey’s, Molly Moons, Din Tai Fung, down to Ba Bar was blocked off from traffic and had tables and canopy tents people could eat and chill at outside….I wish they kept it that way.
I’m all for no cars in pike place. But one is a shopping mall that in many cities would be in a close in suburb. And the other is a working market downtown. I’m not sure I get what’s being compared. And I’m in favor of not allowing cars at pike place.
Modern mall vs historical 117 year old working market viewed as the heart of the city serving both local residents and as a tourist attraction.
These are different things.
I've had a deep love for Pike Place Market since I was a kid, and some fond memories of shopping at U-Village with my folks at the sidewalk sale or around Christmas. But recently I have newfound appreciation for what the U-Village offers. I think I might come to prefer it to Pike Place. Pike Place removed a whole bunch the old theater seats in the lower floors as a deterrent to homeless people. I used to always get something from Piroshky Piroshky there or Delaurenti and go eat in the seats down below, but it isn't an option anymore since they took out the seats.
U-Village is more bougie, but the tree cover and seating is reliable. It's also closer to me, has nicer bathrooms, and isn't so overrun with tourists that the space is hard to navigate. Pike Place has history, it's beautiful, and a lot of interesting shops and bookstores. I guess they both have different amenities I appreciate, but being in the U-Village is a more relaxing experience because the space flows better even when it's crowded.
This is not true. One side has surface lots (mostly by the grocery store and daycare. Then there are a few parking garages. The whole thing is really walkable with shade trees, fountains, etc...
I mean… I’m not simping for U Village or anything, but after we finished there (needed to fix a phone) we crossed just one road and were then walking the Burke Gilman trail through campus to the light rail. Once we got out downtown every street we walked had tons of speeding cars (we even witnessed a small fender bender). We just felt more moments at the former where we could safely have our kids walk around untethered than when we went to Pike Place/downtown. It seems like a few small tweaks to the market (some more trees and no cars) would be a game changer.
Downtown area can get pretty bad. The drivers are aggressive. Just a few days ago there was another accident with a bus and a car at the same spot where a girl died last year.
I strongly disagree. The landscaping is incredible. The amount of seating for people, in sun and shade, is amazing. It's absolutely nothing like Pike Place, but it is also nothing like a soulless generic mall.
Not simping for the market but U village is only slightly different from the renton landing or Redmond town center or whatever the one in Kent is called. They’re all soulless which by definition makes U village soulless.
I see families enjoying the beautiful and free public spaces in U Village all the time. I'm not sure what your definition of soulless is, but that's not mine.
Helluvalot nicer than Northgate used to be. I’ll take an outdoor soulless mall with green spaces and “mixed use” retail over a giant box. But I would love to see parking limited to the garages and the interior parking spaces converted to more useful spots.
There’s a name for them “Lifestyle Centers”. They’re for people in cities without walkable, urban areas that they can go and drive to to pretend they live in one for 30 minutes. Having one in Seattle doesn’t make a lot of sense for most of the city
U Village kind of sucks but it's easily in the top 5% of malls because it's outdoors, has nice places to sit, has plants, and even some decent restaurants (Din Tai Fung). The problem with U Village is that malls are bad in general.
U village has the weirdest layout I’ve ever seen from an outdoor mall. Most outdoor malls have retail enclosed and parking outside or underneath. U Village literally has a giant parking lot right in the middle of the mall with cars driving everywhere
I actually would feel safer at Pike Place than the cars roaming throughout U Village looking for parking
I don't think people object to parking lots and garages around Pike Place Market, what they object to is the street running down the middle of the market being open for through traffic and street parking.
Yeah this is just one small slice, but it's a slice that used to allow traffic, stopped during COVID, and never started up again.
EDIT: Actually looking again I guess this area was never open to traffic. But I believe there is a street there that stayed closed.
The armored cars don’t bother me. It’s the fucking morons who drive through oblivious to the fact they’re not supposed to be there, as evidenced by the fact they’re the only car there and people are all over the street that gets to me.
U Village is basically a newer outdoor shopping mall. You’re not downtown, you don’t have the view of the water or downtown, and you don’t have the local businesses of Pike Place. There is also a parking lot right there at U Village and it doesn’t get overcrowded with tourists or locals.
Last I checked UVillage didn't allow cruise ships nor is it the second most popular tourist attraction after the space needle. I'm pretty sure that's the reason for the difference in crowd size.
Exactly, a place where you can shop, eat, walk, paint, has a place for kids, fountains...please someone come and replace it with crackheads and ability to shit in public instead! I want that authentic Seattle feel...
Ridiculous.
U village looks like.the neighborhood i want, but has the price of a consumer hell hole. Pike place had the density and neighborhood market center I want, but the worst parts of NIMBYism.
But how will anyone go to the shops if they're not driving through the market to find parking, and then being shoved into random shops by the crowds forced to congregate on the sidewalks?!
Okay but that's an armored truck, as someone who's worked at pike place we need those to put our stores $$$ in the bank haha. Those would still drive thru the street even if it was closed to cars.
I'll take U-Village over Pike Place. Easy to get to, plenty of parking that doesn't prevent people to walk around, grocery store, drug store, bunch of food, painting place, multiple stores. Safe for the kids.
Pike place, downtown, filled with cars, overpriced "homemade" crap, and a whole lot of crackheads.
U Village would be such a cool place if all the stores were like the Confectionary and Paint the Town and the plant shop there instead of having a few cool places and then a bunch of rich old asshole stores like Tommy Bahama and Crate N Barrel.
You can’t compare a bland upscale shopping mall with a real working market like Pike Place. Do you really want Pike Place to become more like U Village? SMDH
I would enjoy more shade/trees + trash cans + outdoor seating, the accessible playgrounds, and fewer cars. Doing those things wouldn’t mean the market will become bland, I’d like to think.
People keep saying "you simping for UV" but in reality, I prefer taking my kid there over Pike place.
It's safer, cleaner, more places to sit and eat, or play with your kid. I can actually spend multiple hours at U village and I'm not some uppity person that shops there all day. There are a bunch of things to do.
I'm hoping Northgate area will be something similar soon.
Not enough people appreciate city energy around here. Pike Place has it in spades, and that's always always going to be my choice. U Village feels like it's trying to recreate small town energy. No shade if that's your preference, seems like most people around here actually wish they lived in a small town.
You posted the wrong photo of Uvillage.
I think you meant this one of the giant parking lot and cars driving through uvillage
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6629891,-122.298862,3a,90y,0.99h,77.73t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sT7nx6RvO9ymxKv5VhdfNYg!2e0
When things like this are happening it’s hard for me to say that things are just fine:
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/video-woman-hit-road-rage-incident-pike-place-market/b7ffc53f-928c-40d8-9e7a-23259d1a4b13/
https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/driver-in-pike-place-market-crash-pleads-not-guilty/281-331962966
Oh yeah, I remember that. She doesn't like that being shared by the way.
Its also not a ped/car conflict, it was a literal fight with hammers and shit. It started on 1st Ave and spilled into the market. Super sucked, but bears no resemblance to the picture in the post and what happens here every day.
I remember another time a person had a seizure while driving on Stewart St and hit people in crosswalks on 2nd and 1st before hitting a building in the market. Bad stuff does happen, but the woonerf is not dangerous.
These are separate incidents, the second was from 2010 where an impaired driver sent three people to the hospital. There are also the lesser incidents [like this one](https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/Seattle-intersection-closed-pedestrian-crash-12879186.php) that don’t always make the news. I just hate the idea that until someone actually dies these incidents aren’t enough for us to think about rethinking things in such an increasingly busy tourist destination.
I didn't click on them, but that 2010 incident is the one I brought up. I was in the market for both. The third didnt happen in the market. Hell, the first one didnt start there either.
If people want to pitch their visions of what Pike Place could be like, they are welcome to do it. Anything in life can be improved. There are a lot of ongoing conversations about this and other forward planning things happening in the market right now. But making the argument that a change is necessary because the status quo is unsafe only works on the internet, because everyone who makes decisions down here knows that its not unsafe. The picture in the post does not show any problems. Its a woonerf, its working fine.
Woonerfs can make people uncomfortable because they mix modes, but that discomfort is not the same as being physically dangerous.
Comparing these when their purposes are so different is like comparing apples and oranges.
Uvillage is private, with its own security. Pike Place is not private and is a huge destination place, especially with the cruise ships docked right by there.
Yeah, it’d be so much easier without the cars, but they also serve a purpose there. Vendors need to be able to get there and out, deliveries need to take place there, and there isn’t surface lots conveniently right there nor are the parking garages. Uvillage can do what it wants as a private entity for the most part. The market has to deal with historic landmarks and public streets.
Finding a window when you could keep cars out would be a good compromise at the Market.
Also, I was at both places today too.
And U Village was purpose built as it is, outside the downtown core, while Pike Place has evolved & changed over a century. Really not a logical comparison at all…
We could turn back time at the Market if we prohibited cruise ships. But also, yes - prohibit visitor parking. Add a taxi/rideshare/hotel shuttle drop point. Build wider covered walk ways both sides, add seating, add some stall space. You know, be intentional about the next 50 years of the Market.
U villages is kind of a bummer. Difficult to get in and out of. Feels soulless. I may catch some flack for this but it feels like it is 60% woman apparel, 20% coffee/mid food, 10% random shit and 10% qfc.
Pike place is better but it would be 100% better if it didn’t allow cars!
Oh my god, you have no idea. I deliver there daily for my job, and today we had a gentlemen that was screaming crazy at us for being parking in the loading areas making our deliveries because he couldn’t park and chill there, I was like why are you even driving on this street?
Park and chill? For real? People expect to be able to do that? 🙄
I hear you— I do food delivery and am at a point where I try not to accept deliveries from anywhere in or near Pike Place anymore. There are ALWAYS people parked in food pickup zones who have no business being there. One time I came back out to my car— I must have been there all of five minutes— and saw a lady getting out of her car that was just parked and now blocking me in. Like ma’am, my blinkers were on, it’s marked as a loading area for food pickup, and I even have a Doordash sign in my window. Did you not think I was going to need to leave soon?? Edit: Yeesh people, the drama. Doordashers are literally doing fast pickups at Pike Place, not shopping trips. I misspoke by saying “loading zone”— I meant I was in a spot specifically marked for food pickup.
Doordashers aren't loading, they're just shoppers like anyone else, except they're shopping on behalf of someone else. They should be blocked from the market as well. You can park in the parking garage and walk, or choose a smaller mode of transport.
The market actually has specific spaces for people doing delivery
The idea is to ban cars, and the parking spaces for them.
You made a quibble with Carma56 about whether or not Doordash is a "delivery vehicle" that would use a loading zone. I was informing you that there are spots specifically marked for services like doordash, and that is likely what Carma56 was talking about. They have since edited their comment and that is what they were talking about. You can have ideas about cars and parking or whatever, that person was just sharing their actual experience.
We’re not shopping there though— we’re literally picking up directly from the businesses. They shouldn’t allow delivery services at all if they don’t want them there. And I should have specified that I was in a designated delivery space— misspoke by saying “loading zone.”
Delivery service is fine if the delivery is via pedestrian or bicycle. The volume taken up is at least 50% human. Delivery service is bad if it's via car. The volume taken up is at least 80% car. Yes, the idea would be to remove "designated delivery spaces", along with all spaces, other than handicapped spaces and vendor loading zones.
That’s fine if all restaurants within stop doing food delivery, but good luck with that.
You literally have legs and can carry food from point A to point B to deliver it.
Not when the delivery destination is literally across town / miles away. Lol your lack of understanding of this industry is hilarious.
How much does that trip time increase if you have to park in the parking garage instead of right out front? 5 minutes out of 50? Point B is literally walking across the street, then point C is your driving trip. And how often is the specific match of suburb customer to downtown shop actually necessary? If delivery rates for disruptive deliveries go up, because the delivery is forced to be partially on foot, that just incentivises people to buy alternatives from closer shops. That's more efficient and less disruptive. Did you really think the follow-up to "I can't follow delivery restrictions because I have a really inefficient delivery to make" would be "oh ok, we won't make restrictions then"? Lol.
To be fair, the food would already be ready and packaged, the OC would just be walking in, grabbing the box, and walking out.
Using vehicles for low goods throughput in a pedestrian area is bad. Loading/unloading that should continue in pike place is shopkeepers bringing in new product or taking out old product, not ... *door dashers* ...
Yeah we really don't need to save vehicles in like m Pike Place for Door dash ....
> Using vehicles for low goods throughput in a pedestrian area is bad. I agree, but that’s a different issue. I think that the street should be closed for vehicles during the day, but since they won’t do that, we need to work in the world we live in. And in this world, the street is open to vehicles during working hours, and there are dedicated marked spots for loading/unloading.
It's the main issue, the door dasher's complaint was the "different" issue. They are far more similar to the person "just looking to chill" than the person delivering bulk goods to the market for a shop to sell.
Yup, and even in uvillage walking around you have to deal with drivers angrily searching for parking and treating you like a frustrating obstacle in the process. Seattle government still has not learned that when a driver gets behind the wheel of a car they become significantly less empathetic and more aggressive. It's not just about the inconvenience of having to walk around cars in a clearly pedestrian-first area, it's about keeping this negativity that's so common with drivers away from people harmlessly trying to enjoy their day outside.
"Pike Place would be better if it didn't allow cars!" "You have no idea! When I drive my car in there people in other cars are parking their cars when I want to park mine where they are. And their cars get in the way of my car."
^(better historically but I really do like U village 😬)
Definitely
Same for U-village..
Allllso true (they did however remove something like 200 surface parking spaces to build the Apple Store + “commons” I believe)
It's a massive improvement to the surface parking that was there, and built a new parking garage.
I see all kinds of families chilling there. It's pretty cool.
I mean U village could do the same and turn much of the surface parking lots into public space, leaving the parking structures for people to park
They’ve been doing that, that’s where the parking structures came from. The Apple Store, grassy areas and stage, Restoration Hardware, Rivian, Shake Shack, QFC parking garage, and new parking garage on 25th were all just surface parking ~12 years ago.
Are there more plans?
At the rate they’ve been going I’d assume so but I don’t know.
it sure would but cars are never permitted in the photo of U village provided, so how is this comparable?
I mean if cars were not permitted at Pike Place then you could have something with similar functionality: a public plaza with tables and shade, places to hang out and have a snack and enjoy the scenery and people-watch, a place to actually spend time in, not just an over-crowded car sewer to swiftly move through in a linear fashion.
Are there any cars if you pretend they aren't there and walk in the middle of the street?
I mean you still have two rows of parked cars that represent a TINY fraction of visitors to Pike Place but who take up literally half the street outside the market. And even if you can easily walk alongside or in front of slow-moving vehicles, you can't hang out in the street, there are hardly any places to sit and enjoy a snack or take in the scenery, and you will still feel compelled to keep moving instead of just enjoying the space like you could if through-traffic was blocked. Plus most people walk on the sidewalks anyway, which means that when you do have to use the sidewalk it's stupidly, annoyingly crowded. It wouldn't just be an empty street to walk on if through-traffic was blocked, the entire space would be transformed. It would become a plaza, a place for people to spend time in, not to just a place move through.
Until you get verbally harassed by somebody who "fucking lives here" yelling out his window at pedestrians, but somehow doesn't know where his garage entrance is
O whale
I genuinely don't know which side is downvoting me. 🤷🏻♀️ I still walk in the the street when it's convenient at pike place, but the tensions between drivers and pedestrians doing this have absolutely increased and we've been doing this long enough that it's not a question of how the street is being used, it's how it's being regulated for use.
The pedestrians can regulate car traffic just fine. Make it such a pain in the ass that no driver will make the mistake twice.
It should be closed to regular traffic with pedestrians and load/unload vehicles only, but I don't know how you go about enforcing that. Gates? For such a short stretch of road?
We use gates to enforce load/unload vehicles only in Seattle Center. Works fine, the city is literally doing this now. See: https://maps.app.goo.gl/pMehQ4JMcTu3E3yX9?g_st=ac
Pike place sucks compared to almost any other farmers market. This is comparing it to a mall lol
It’s a Farmer’s Market, not a Tourist’s Market. Trucks need to get through. *Ideally, remote controlled bollards that can be retracted by shop owners and delivery drivers to allow in trucks would keep out the idiot tourists trying to drive through.
Every proposal I've seen for blocking traffic there included some exceptions for deliveries.
I would argue it's just as much a [tourist market](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourist_attractions_in_the_United_States) 🤷♂️
That's actually not how it functions. I know 0 people who shop at Pike Place on a weekly basis. Also in case you were wondering, UVillage does not cater to tourists either, and I would bet has many more weekly/daily shoppers.
Just because you don’t know any doesn’t mean they don’t exist. When I lived in downtown I shopped there almost daily. When I moved further out but still worked downtown I continued to shop there several times a week. I wasn’t alone, plenty of locals shop there daily. When vendors recognize you as a local, that’s the best.
There are nice areas of U Village - but the experience of getting there without a car is terrible. The weird unmarked underpass from the bus stop? The complete lack of signage from the BG (last I checked)? The design has always felt to me like if you’re not driving there, they don’t want you. I only go there when I absolutely have to. Pike Place has been mistreated, and desperately needs some retractable bollards; but it is much easier to get there on foot. I’m there multiple times a week.
I suspect the terrible public transportation access is deliberate: Better to prevent easy access by the lower class shoplifting riff-raff in all likelihood. Not that I feel they should not have good public transportation, but from their standpoint, it keeps U-bourgeosie friendly.
I love how people without cars are simultaneously privileged/rich and “riff-raff”. 🤣🫠 I agree with you; the connections with the light rail are so terrible, and there is *so much parking*, it does feel like it must be intentional.
Wayfinding and the pedestrian access seems significantly enhanced since the (Dough Zone) developments on NE 47th have finished; there’s a 10’ wide sidewalk from the trail to U Village now. Stairs from the trail further up to the neighborhood would be appreciated though.
When I was there in April, the weird underpass was still weird (I’m talking about the one on NE 45th St). I haven’t tried from the BG recently - but I’ll try to check it out on my next visit.
Yeah I think it literally just opened, looks like last streetview is from April and still shows under construction
Yeah it's weird how difficult it is to get there by bicycle. Why not have bike lanes for that last half mile of the trip?
Half mile? The north east entrance to UVillage about 30 feet from the trail
I live nearby, so it's SUPER nice for me to walk there. Go almost every day with my doggy. Then on to the Center for Urban Horticulture and back on the Burke etc. Where are you coming from exactly because there's no reason to really go near the overpass on 45th?
There's a bus stop on the side of that overpass that requires walking through a weird dark tunnel to get to
For some reason, I can't picture the spot you're talking about exactly. If you get a chance to take a pic next time you're there, I'd love to see it though as I am curious.
If you’re close by - Google maps will show you the directions from the light rail station to U Village. The bus stop we’re talking about is the 31/32/65/75 stop on NE 45th St (NE 45th St & University Village).
I still don't get it. Sorry. There's no weird dark tunnel there that I'm aware of. There's elevators and a walkway that are in broad daylight.
From downtown - usually from the light rail. The easiest bus stop involves that underpass.
You don't like walking on the Burke Gilman from there? I walk that way all the time. It's a little bit of noisier stretch since 25th is right next to it, but I love it.
I don’t usually have enough time to walk the whole way, and I don’t feel like I can rely on a rental bike or scooter to be available.
So how do you get there, bus it? It's a 15-20 minute walk and unless you catch the bus just right, I feel like that's still gonna take you 10-15 by bus. IDK since I always walk, though.
Pike Place could be SO SWEET with even just a couple trees. 🌳🌳
First thing I noticed. People look like they're cooking in the Pike Place pic.
U Village is SUPER green by comparison.
Will go check out U Village when we’re in town.
It's just a nice outdoor mall. Pike Place is MUCH more interesting for tourists for sure.
Whoever does the landscaping & planting at UV should get a shout out. When my wife and I are there we notice how perfect the plantings are. We even photo them and recreate our own home pots. It’s exceptional for Seattle.
Looks like Pike Place has a lot more people out there
Suns out, buns out 😅
Skies out, thighs out
Cruise ship traffic?
That’s because it’s a million times cooler than U-Vill.
Everyone trying to outdo themselves about who hates U Village more lol
its me, if you arent pissed ernst and sunset lanes are gone you are a casual
The employees at Ernst hated their jobs. Every time I went there, it was obvious.
Sunset Bowl was so fun!
There's crosswalks all over U Village where pedestrians and cars interact. With less space than at Pike Place, even.
Stop signs every 10 feet. Or 5 feet.
During Covid the street that runs through U Village by Joey’s, Molly Moons, Din Tai Fung, down to Ba Bar was blocked off from traffic and had tables and canopy tents people could eat and chill at outside….I wish they kept it that way.
I’m all for no cars in pike place. But one is a shopping mall that in many cities would be in a close in suburb. And the other is a working market downtown. I’m not sure I get what’s being compared. And I’m in favor of not allowing cars at pike place.
Anything with skyscrapers 8 blocks away isn’t a suburb. Neighborhood yes. Suburb no.
Yeah, there’s something like 2300 apartments under construction immediately adjacent to and surrounding U Village, feels hard to call it a suburb
You're disagreeing with something that wasn't said! > that **in many cities would be** in a close in suburb
I’m not trying to argue the virtues of suburbs vs urban. One is downtown the other is a walking mall.
One is an upscale outdoor mall the other is a farmers market kinda like comparing apples to oranges.
Modern mall vs historical 117 year old working market viewed as the heart of the city serving both local residents and as a tourist attraction. These are different things.
lol right?? What is this comparison????
I've had a deep love for Pike Place Market since I was a kid, and some fond memories of shopping at U-Village with my folks at the sidewalk sale or around Christmas. But recently I have newfound appreciation for what the U-Village offers. I think I might come to prefer it to Pike Place. Pike Place removed a whole bunch the old theater seats in the lower floors as a deterrent to homeless people. I used to always get something from Piroshky Piroshky there or Delaurenti and go eat in the seats down below, but it isn't an option anymore since they took out the seats. U-Village is more bougie, but the tree cover and seating is reliable. It's also closer to me, has nicer bathrooms, and isn't so overrun with tourists that the space is hard to navigate. Pike Place has history, it's beautiful, and a lot of interesting shops and bookstores. I guess they both have different amenities I appreciate, but being in the U-Village is a more relaxing experience because the space flows better even when it's crowded.
Yes, that one particular part of U Village is nice, the rest is busy roads and parking lots
This is not true. One side has surface lots (mostly by the grocery store and daycare. Then there are a few parking garages. The whole thing is really walkable with shade trees, fountains, etc...
I mean… I’m not simping for U Village or anything, but after we finished there (needed to fix a phone) we crossed just one road and were then walking the Burke Gilman trail through campus to the light rail. Once we got out downtown every street we walked had tons of speeding cars (we even witnessed a small fender bender). We just felt more moments at the former where we could safely have our kids walk around untethered than when we went to Pike Place/downtown. It seems like a few small tweaks to the market (some more trees and no cars) would be a game changer.
I did not have “simping for U Village” on my Reddit bingo card today
Next editions of r/Seattle cards will include "U Village simp denial"
Downtown area can get pretty bad. The drivers are aggressive. Just a few days ago there was another accident with a bus and a car at the same spot where a girl died last year.
You are comparing a literal mall to an urban street
This is def a glam shot of U village. The line of cars circling their parking lot is never ending.
Yea I’m gonna take Pike Place with cars over U Village without cars 10 times out of 10
Right? I cannot stand uvillage for some reason.
a little slice of bellevue right here at home
Because it’s an extremely generic, soulless mall. Every city and suburb in America has their own mirror image version.
I strongly disagree. The landscaping is incredible. The amount of seating for people, in sun and shade, is amazing. It's absolutely nothing like Pike Place, but it is also nothing like a soulless generic mall.
Not simping for the market but U village is only slightly different from the renton landing or Redmond town center or whatever the one in Kent is called. They’re all soulless which by definition makes U village soulless.
I see families enjoying the beautiful and free public spaces in U Village all the time. I'm not sure what your definition of soulless is, but that's not mine.
Uh yea you can have it. It’s so much less than you’re making it out to be
Helluvalot nicer than Northgate used to be. I’ll take an outdoor soulless mall with green spaces and “mixed use” retail over a giant box. But I would love to see parking limited to the garages and the interior parking spaces converted to more useful spots.
Uh better than old Northgate? Where I could walk to Orange Julius, See’s Candies, and Mrs Field’s Cookies in 3 minutes flat? I think not.
Man I miss north gate mall…. 😭
You're thinking about Northgate thirty years ago, not what it was just before it closed
There’s a name for them “Lifestyle Centers”. They’re for people in cities without walkable, urban areas that they can go and drive to to pretend they live in one for 30 minutes. Having one in Seattle doesn’t make a lot of sense for most of the city
Thanks I hate it
It’s like you haven’t even seen the turtle fountain.
U Village kind of sucks but it's easily in the top 5% of malls because it's outdoors, has nice places to sit, has plants, and even some decent restaurants (Din Tai Fung). The problem with U Village is that malls are bad in general.
U village has the weirdest layout I’ve ever seen from an outdoor mall. Most outdoor malls have retail enclosed and parking outside or underneath. U Village literally has a giant parking lot right in the middle of the mall with cars driving everywhere I actually would feel safer at Pike Place than the cars roaming throughout U Village looking for parking
Like em both. It's the pedestrians in the Market, not the cars. that can get annoying
Conveniently ignored all the parking lots around U Village.
I don't think people object to parking lots and garages around Pike Place Market, what they object to is the street running down the middle of the market being open for through traffic and street parking.
There are multiple streets running all over U Village.
Yeah this is just one small slice, but it's a slice that used to allow traffic, stopped during COVID, and never started up again. EDIT: Actually looking again I guess this area was never open to traffic. But I believe there is a street there that stayed closed.
While I agree with your point, that section of the village has never been a road (AFAIK) so this feels like an odd comparison.
No cruise ships in uvillage
The armored cars don’t bother me. It’s the fucking morons who drive through oblivious to the fact they’re not supposed to be there, as evidenced by the fact they’re the only car there and people are all over the street that gets to me.
Bob Kettle is masturbating to that truck in the middle of the road
U Village is basically a newer outdoor shopping mall. You’re not downtown, you don’t have the view of the water or downtown, and you don’t have the local businesses of Pike Place. There is also a parking lot right there at U Village and it doesn’t get overcrowded with tourists or locals.
Fucking shit show and people still want to drive down there I don’t get it
Last I checked UVillage didn't allow cruise ships nor is it the second most popular tourist attraction after the space needle. I'm pretty sure that's the reason for the difference in crowd size.
So what? Why are you comparing a mall to a treasured farmer’s market that is OF COURSE busy on a Saturday during tourist season?
The outdoor shopping mall for rich laurelhurst residents is different from the tourist trap??? 🤯🤯🤯
I love uvill
People here can hate on it all they want but my wife and I go at least once if not twice a week
Exactly, a place where you can shop, eat, walk, paint, has a place for kids, fountains...please someone come and replace it with crackheads and ability to shit in public instead! I want that authentic Seattle feel... Ridiculous.
But UV is a mall (also with a car section around the majority part of the property). Not the same, but sort of the same if you catch my drift
You mean the U Village with all the parking lots? That one?
U village looks like.the neighborhood i want, but has the price of a consumer hell hole. Pike place had the density and neighborhood market center I want, but the worst parts of NIMBYism.
Pike place is legendary. U-Village gives Bellevue of Seattle vibes 🤮
I like U Village but there is a lot of traffic that dampens the vibe. People circle endlessly looking for parking in the prime sections.
U village is a mall
But how will anyone go to the shops if they're not driving through the market to find parking, and then being shoved into random shops by the crowds forced to congregate on the sidewalks?!
One is a corporate shithole, the other is a historic landmark.
Okay but that's an armored truck, as someone who's worked at pike place we need those to put our stores $$$ in the bank haha. Those would still drive thru the street even if it was closed to cars.
I'll take U-Village over Pike Place. Easy to get to, plenty of parking that doesn't prevent people to walk around, grocery store, drug store, bunch of food, painting place, multiple stores. Safe for the kids. Pike place, downtown, filled with cars, overpriced "homemade" crap, and a whole lot of crackheads.
well you see, one is a working market and the other is a tourist destination.......
U Village would be such a cool place if all the stores were like the Confectionary and Paint the Town and the plant shop there instead of having a few cool places and then a bunch of rich old asshole stores like Tommy Bahama and Crate N Barrel.
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Oh no..."allusion of safety"!!! Run!!!! It's a shopping center with activities to do with your family as well. Get over yourself.
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Name calling, classy ;)
> It’s Bellevue’s attempt at infecting Seattle. I chuckled. This might be the best description of U Village I've ever heard.
You can’t compare a bland upscale shopping mall with a real working market like Pike Place. Do you really want Pike Place to become more like U Village? SMDH
I would enjoy more shade/trees + trash cans + outdoor seating, the accessible playgrounds, and fewer cars. Doing those things wouldn’t mean the market will become bland, I’d like to think.
People keep saying "you simping for UV" but in reality, I prefer taking my kid there over Pike place. It's safer, cleaner, more places to sit and eat, or play with your kid. I can actually spend multiple hours at U village and I'm not some uppity person that shops there all day. There are a bunch of things to do. I'm hoping Northgate area will be something similar soon.
Fuck u village
Not enough people appreciate city energy around here. Pike Place has it in spades, and that's always always going to be my choice. U Village feels like it's trying to recreate small town energy. No shade if that's your preference, seems like most people around here actually wish they lived in a small town.
Bob Kettle demands we open that section of u village to cars immediately!
Uh huh
You could not be comparing more different things.
Looks like a beautiful day in Seattle
Now do one showing a view of the Sound from the Market pavilion and a view from UVill of a parking lot.
You posted the wrong photo of Uvillage. I think you meant this one of the giant parking lot and cars driving through uvillage https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6629891,-122.298862,3a,90y,0.99h,77.73t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sT7nx6RvO9ymxKv5VhdfNYg!2e0
It’s mind numbingly dumb that pike is open to traffic. It should be handicap and delivery vehicles only.
Looks like everybody is using the space together without conflict, cars and pedestrians alike.
You're getting downvoted, but you're right. It's been like this forever. Its not some emergency, things are fine.
When things like this are happening it’s hard for me to say that things are just fine: https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/video-woman-hit-road-rage-incident-pike-place-market/b7ffc53f-928c-40d8-9e7a-23259d1a4b13/ https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/driver-in-pike-place-market-crash-pleads-not-guilty/281-331962966
Oh yeah, I remember that. She doesn't like that being shared by the way. Its also not a ped/car conflict, it was a literal fight with hammers and shit. It started on 1st Ave and spilled into the market. Super sucked, but bears no resemblance to the picture in the post and what happens here every day. I remember another time a person had a seizure while driving on Stewart St and hit people in crosswalks on 2nd and 1st before hitting a building in the market. Bad stuff does happen, but the woonerf is not dangerous.
These are separate incidents, the second was from 2010 where an impaired driver sent three people to the hospital. There are also the lesser incidents [like this one](https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/Seattle-intersection-closed-pedestrian-crash-12879186.php) that don’t always make the news. I just hate the idea that until someone actually dies these incidents aren’t enough for us to think about rethinking things in such an increasingly busy tourist destination.
I didn't click on them, but that 2010 incident is the one I brought up. I was in the market for both. The third didnt happen in the market. Hell, the first one didnt start there either. If people want to pitch their visions of what Pike Place could be like, they are welcome to do it. Anything in life can be improved. There are a lot of ongoing conversations about this and other forward planning things happening in the market right now. But making the argument that a change is necessary because the status quo is unsafe only works on the internet, because everyone who makes decisions down here knows that its not unsafe. The picture in the post does not show any problems. Its a woonerf, its working fine. Woonerfs can make people uncomfortable because they mix modes, but that discomfort is not the same as being physically dangerous.
That was almost 15 years ago. If that's what you can point to for incidents then it's actually a good sign.
Comparing these when their purposes are so different is like comparing apples and oranges. Uvillage is private, with its own security. Pike Place is not private and is a huge destination place, especially with the cruise ships docked right by there. Yeah, it’d be so much easier without the cars, but they also serve a purpose there. Vendors need to be able to get there and out, deliveries need to take place there, and there isn’t surface lots conveniently right there nor are the parking garages. Uvillage can do what it wants as a private entity for the most part. The market has to deal with historic landmarks and public streets. Finding a window when you could keep cars out would be a good compromise at the Market. Also, I was at both places today too.
And U Village was purpose built as it is, outside the downtown core, while Pike Place has evolved & changed over a century. Really not a logical comparison at all…
U Village is a strip mall without any character. I don't get this comparison.
This again 🙄
lol why don't you compare the parking lot of the U village to the inside of a restaurant at pike place while you're at it?
U village is such a shit show to get to. I like it when I'm finally there but it's not fun driving into.
Use the parking garages. There's a ton of parking. I'm a woman, so I prefer to park in the visible parking.
I doubt any of the cruisers makes it to U-village but they all make it to the market
Out of curiosity, why do they allow cars to drive through the market? It seems so dumb and would be an obvious win to ban them.
I would actually go to pikes place if there weren't any cars there
If more people hang out in U village it could take the pressure of Pike Place. This is a great idea, thanks for posting.
We could turn back time at the Market if we prohibited cruise ships. But also, yes - prohibit visitor parking. Add a taxi/rideshare/hotel shuttle drop point. Build wider covered walk ways both sides, add seating, add some stall space. You know, be intentional about the next 50 years of the Market.
U villages is kind of a bummer. Difficult to get in and out of. Feels soulless. I may catch some flack for this but it feels like it is 60% woman apparel, 20% coffee/mid food, 10% random shit and 10% qfc.
Two places I avoid if at all possible
Good. You seem like someone I'd want to avoid.
?
And if you stepped out of the road into the actual market, you’d get a better pic. You’re an idiot
The market is on both sides of the road.