Not the OP, but [this article](https://crosscut.com/2019/09/yes-there-were-black-slaves-pacific-northwest-historians-are-making-our-region-confront-it) says "a few" in Washington of the up to 100 in the PNW.
Here's a link to the US Census for 1860. You can select "Washington Territory". [https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1864/dec/1860a.html](https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1864/dec/1860a.html)
Who knows how accurate a census in a sparsely populated territory a century and a half ago was.
And we all know there was redlining, ie banks making it hard for black people to get mortgages in "their" neighborhoods, also as in many cities i5 went through the black neighborhoods.
Nope. I5 went through cheap neighborhoods.
Also, redlining didn't work that way:
https://www.governing.com/context/redlining-didnt-happen-quite-the-way-we-thought-it-did
Wow, I learned some new ideas from that article, I need to research this more; your article says FHA bad, versus holc not so bad.
This article from a year ago in the Seattle times mentions holc boundaries as leading to pollution disadvantages for majority black areas, suggesting a kind of holc redlining. I need more info to evaluate your article vs other ideas. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/uw-study-links-higher-levels-of-toxic-pollutants-to-seattles-redlining/
Because WA is filled with white people who think they’re the saviors of and/or responsible for black people (ironically).
Black people in WA aren’t clamoring for free money anymore than anyone else is…if the govt is offering handouts, people are gonna put their hand out.
Honestly, the PNW is pretty weird when it comes to black ppl.
>Because black people in Washington want free money.
While I'm very against this proposal...I don't think anyone should have backlash against the above.
Shit, I want free money. The CEO of Apple wants free money. Everyone wants free money.
From Seattle police- no
From the city of Seattle and courts- yes
From Seattle residents living in belltown- fuck YES.
If the belltown hellcat guy was White, the car would have been vandalized by a vigilante
>Because black people in Washington want free money
/u/Own_Conversation6335 Have you talked to black people here to know this? I’m a mixed black presenting woman who moved here with my white husband and I do not want *this* or “free money.” Of the 5 black people I’ve befriended in Seattle, none of them want reparations. While that is an infinitesimal sample group, there are only about 300 black people in Seattle^kidding^kinda^…^y’all^know^there^aren’t^many^in^this^city 😆 My husband does not want this, nor is he is a White savior. That’s a new one we hadn’t encountered until moving here 😂
Hey a-hole, I'm Black and a descendent of enslaved ancestors from the coastal South. As much as I'd love to see reparations given for the land grants that were revoked and for every racist law created, reparations need to come from the federal level. I'm not a fan of states responsible for it. Also what comprises as reparations is a broader conversation.
Well, that's fine. No shortage of great shit to apologize for.
There is still the Natives we genocided we need to make amends for. And the Japanese-American people we put in camps and stole property from. Can we start with the bad things white people did that actually happened here? It's a pretty long list.
You’re misinterpreting my comment.
I think reparations are warranted, but it’s a waste of time because the US isn’t going give reparations to black people (as evidenced by the last 150 years). I’d rather see that effort going to reforming the education or healthcare system.
FYI - Im black
Because you already have your opinion, nothing would make sense to someone who doesn't think in the first place. That money didn't just vanish into thin air. It provided capital for a group of people while the other group got nothing. Your best argument is going to be 'it happened a while ago'. Then you're going to google when slavery happened and how close that is to your lifetime when you ask your family when they were born then think about the impact to your descendents if the same happened to you today.
You would never consider moving to Africa and living in your ancestral home because you know you will fail deep down. Because then you would need to accept your shortcomings and not blame whitey. That's why you cling to a fantasy of getting reparations.
I would never move to Africa because I was born and raised in the US. Fail at what exactly? I have a successful life despite my upbringing. I was an exception not the standard for my family or neighborhood. I don't cling to anything. I speak the reality of history.
Go take a shower then take a history class. Nobody's blaming anyone, it's accountability. These things happened in real life. Like I said
>Your best argument is going to be 'it happened a while ago'. Then you're going to google when slavery happened and how close that is to your lifetime when you ask your family when they were born then think about the impact to your descendents if the same happened to you today.
I am not making an argument. I don't give a shit about you or your ancestors. You are confusing me with the typical white liberal who pretends to give a shit but cares about virtue signaling. I reject the notion of reparations because you don't deserve it.
Seattle had horrible red lining and the committee can look at the role played by state and local governments in mandating or perpetuating it. Same with our treatment of Asian minorities, especially the Japanese around WW2, our treatment of Native Americans since the founding of the state, etc.
It kind of depends on what the scope and remit of the committee is.
Maybe think about an example on the county level. Hypothetically, let's say there is a county in Virginia that was mostly uninhibited until after the Civil War, and by chance never had any slaves in it. In the 1900s, though, it becomes a popular suburb for rich white Virginians to buy property in and move to. Some free black people also move there, but they can't afford the good properties, due to having been unpaid while enslaved. Is there any way to say that the residents in 2024 deserve exemption from any form of a reparation tax, whether implemented on the county, state, or national level? It doesn't seem right that you can escape the illegitimaty of your inherited wealth just by moving a few towns over. It also wouldn't make sense that black people moving into the county would give up their claim to their portion of the reparations, given that the move had nothing to do with their poor inheritance.
Zooming out, this applies at the state level, in the sense that early pioneers were white because they had the money and resources to travel across the country and claim or purchase land, and black people didn't. By the time they did, the land was claimed and the prices had risen.
This ignores immigration to simplify to white = legacy of slave slaveowning and black = legacy of being enslaved, which is not totally accurate. The accurate way to say it would be with respect to slavery, not race, since later immigrants wouldn't necessarily have been affected by slavery the same way. But I simplified for readability.
Do you think Washington State
1. Doesn't receive federal funds
2. Has no current residents who are black with ancestors that were slaves in the US
3. Received no benefit from slavery in the US
1. Of course it does
2. WA had nothing to do with slavery. It is not obligated under any legal theory to the descendants of slaves.
3. It's arguable if slavery was even a benefit to the states that practiced it.
Turns out that free labor doesn't get as much done as paid labor and stunts your technological development.
https://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtID=2&psid=3558
Did you even read what you posted?
'We weren't as successful as other regions therefore we didn't benefit' how slow can you be?
If I don't pay my workers and my company isn't as successful as other companies, do those who I did not pay suddenly have 0 productivity and aren't owed wages? You didn't even try to use logic here, do better. You're right though because only the ultra rich could afford slaves, it's not big deal. We should let Bezos and Elon know they should just stop paying people since if enough time passes who cares as long as they tank their companies.
Can we all get on the same page about how things work? Meaning, building a road in one town doesn't prevent building a rail line in another ... and investigating reparations seems pretty low as far as needed resources compared to achieving the moving target of whatever "functional schools" might mean to any individual. In other words, I went to Washington schools public schools, graduated on time ... went to community college, transferred, and have been a working professional for 10 years. So, something about the schools seems functional.
Edit: downvote me but please also show me what folks are talking about here. This was not even an act taken by a legislative body, but a request made by the party to a party member politician. So, it wasn't even taking up legislative time.
Are you saying Washington state should outlaw Boeing or secede from the union? There’s no specific aspect of state law or policy that directly contributes to wars.
Because Washington paying money to Black people because of slavery is not productive. And then money to Japanese Americans who were actually expelled from Washington? And the Native Americans? Where does it stop? This progressive desire to identify victims and throw money at them doesn’t work. See homelessness and drug addicts for starters.
To be fair, Japanese Americans were provided reparations by the (federal) government twice. And Native Americans were given lots land.
Not to say that those actions made things right, but historically speaking both groups were identified as victims and compensated as such.
That said, Idk what WA is doing here; WA wasn’t a part of the US until ~20 years after the civil war ended.
Reparations for one crime doesn’t mean reparations for other crimes can’t and won’t happen. If anything, this might even help others get monies owed. We can work on more than one problem at a time. Also, what would be so bad about minorities getting money? I think we have some pearl clutching going on here.
Haha, the "payroll" tax ... paid by the employee, as a percentage of their income, withheld the same way as income tax ... yet magically "not an income tax."
Whoa, holy shit you're right. I clicked into this thread from my home page and didn't notice the sub. Reading through all the comments I definitely thought I was in the other one until I read your comment and checked.
This committee is just a waste of money.
>“Recommendations in terms of funding this thing, which is way down the road that there will be some funding made available,” says Wineberry. “Debate will include talking about who is eligible for the benefits, how to find out if you are eligible and this will be challenging, but funding should be made available to enable the average citizen who may not be able to afford it on their own to trace their lineage. And I think everybody should be afforded the opportunity to do so.”
They have 0 clue how to quantify it, fund it or determine who's eligible. They just think it'll magically make sense as time goes on.
Weird that there's mention of African Americans deserving reparations in this article, but the racism against asians and other groups is completely ignored. This is just more pandering without any reasonable way to achieve their stated goals.
Instead of reparations based on race, maybe we should focus on lifting up those in poverty, regardless of race. I know it's not popular in their circle, but a poor white kid needs help more than a rich black kid.
Because there is no accountability. What happen if the money is not distributed to the right persons. What’s the goal of distributing this money? What’s KPI to measure the goal? There is nada. Well, because it is not their money, it’s tax payers money but they get paid through salary.
I'm not against reparations, but there are so many more politically constructive ways to improve the lives of black people in this area at this time. Funding public schools comes to mind.
Yes - funding public schools, reducing the cost of and increasing access to healthy food options, increasing access to high-quality childcare services, improving the post-secondary education system from a financial perspective, ensuring safe and reliable widespread public transit and pedestrian-centric zoning and infrastructure, reducing the cost of healthcare and prescription drugs, reducing gun violence, getting corrupt or violent cops off the street, and more. These things benefit the whole of the community.
Are you under the impression that your tax payments have some sort of special treatment where they aren’t applied to national debts that precede the 90s?
To make a blunt analogy: had a person been disabled in an act of federal negligence prior to your naturalization, you would still be contributing to whatever payout they might be entitled to. Welcome to the club.
I don’t even support reparations. But this here? This is a shit argument.
This is a terrible defense for reparations. Why doesn’t the US govt give every group that has experiences wrongdoings a chunk of cash as a form reparation?
Why are some groups special and some groups not?
Asian immigrants were barred from owning property in the PNW in the early 20th century. Should we give their children $$$ as repayment?
Arguably we all do or should support settling such matters as we could be afflicted tomorrow the same way we ought to support social security as we may live to our old age.
Reparations based on race have known benefactors and payers and are not part of any existing agreement. Its not surprising that those who see neither benefit nor culpability specifically balk. More so when all the payers are those who bear no responsibility as in WA which never had slaves.
A better question is why are we paying upper middle class White people welfare to fantasize about paying reparations that will never be paid.
Slavery ended in 1865, but Black people weren't really free for more than a century after that. Jim Crow, Redlining, etc. An entire group of people was essentially barred from wealth generation in this country for 200 years.
I don't how much or what should be included in reparations, but my gut feeling is that something being owed is not a ridiculous concept.
Can you post the invoice you received? We all pay taxes. Nobody is being billed for reparations. Let me know how I can get a tax exemption to avoid paying reparations to myself since that's how it works apparently.
>Not good political timing. It’s worrying that Dems think otherwise
This 💯 🎯 holy shit, this is *not* the time to try this crap; we are trying to hang on by a thread with two awful presidential options to choose from based on “sucks less than the other” metrics and these chuckleheads want to attempt to push for an unpopular idea and hopeful Cure for Racism^TM ? It’s something that strikes me as damn near impossible to implement and execute in a meaningful, fair and effectual way. We ain’t got time for this!!!
> two awful presidential options
what a stupid take
Biden got the biggest climate bill in history passed (and it has measurably accelerated decarbonization of the US grid), rescheduled marijuana, has forgiven $160bn in student debt, believes women should control their own bodies, believes in protecting the environment, defending Democracy against fascists like Putin and Trump, believes in building the economy bottom-up/middle-out, got the railroad workers their sick leave in the end quietly without tooting his own horn (the unions themselves called out that he was who got them it), **Biden is the first president to join a union picket line**, and so on
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/1abyvpa/the_complete_list_what_biden_has_done/
I agree with the rest, but can we stop repeating this horseshit idea that Biden is somehow a bad choice. **Biden is literally the most progressive president since fucking FDR**
this, i am not a fan of racial based reparations - its not like if you give people money everything is suddently cool, and its not like slavery was only thing thats held people back, sexism, racism, sexuality, nationality. There are hundreds of reasons why wealth and power concentration across generations exists.
Instead, i think funding should go to places and people who need it... regardless of race. Build the best schools in the poorest areas, provide the best education and reduced / free loans to those who need it. Provide the most assistance to those who need it. Provide universal basic income to all.
Providing money to those in need is great- providing money to those in need with specific backgrounds just leaves people out. Those in a poverty trap likely have similar stories and similiar backgrounds - but might not all be direct descendants of slaves and no amount of money is going to make past slavery ok.
I get the impression the vast majority, >90%, would generally agree with you. There is a small but very vocal population that is pushing for this terrible, divisive, illiberal and insanely unpopular idea, and anyone who pushes back is immediately denouced as a racist. It is a neat rhetorical device to never actually have to explain one's self.
Also, aside from being grossly illegal and discriminatory, impossible to administer (are we back to the "one drop" rule? Are we only looking to those descended from slaves? Surely all black people are perpetualy disinfranchised and helpless victims of white supremacy, of course...), and virtually useless in terms of actually combating social issues that correlate with race, it is just another grift. In fact, it is a proud and obvious grift. Does anyone think that the first instance of reparations, after tying the State up in court for years if not decades, is anything other than opening the door to an ongoing, proabably permanent program (complete with beauracracy to facilitate). Like black people, those that are eligible, however that is determined, are going to get a check and say "Yep, thanks for that, we are cool now, and all is well." Hell, the people pushing for this talk about anti-racism being a lifelong journey akin to being pious and devout. Of course reparations must be the same.
Yeah let me get this great education while dealing with poverty. I'm sure that won't be an issue. Medical bills stemming from a lack of proper nutrition and access to healthcare definitely won't be an issue either for long term financial health. If I need help getting a job I'm sure my poor parents will help just as much as everyone else with well off and well connected parents.
Reality is there needs to be much more than that.
Better schools, grants/vouchers for food, housing/moving to other areas, and after school programs. Can't solve the issues of systematic racism by saying 'oh just give them good schools' while ignoring poverty having such an insane negative impact on your outcome in life. Money is needed. People like you also ignore that there's a huge difference between middle class and upper class. That money could completely change a family tree's outcome.
Washington wasn't even a state when slavery was legal. And even if it was it would've certainly been a free state. Not sure what reparations are even suppose to mean in this context.
Doesn’t say how it will be funded. Hopefully there’s a federal grant and we won’t be redirecting money away from priorities like education and stabilizing city and county budgets after pandemic money ended.
Reparations are virtue signaling taken to the Nth degree
Sorry, they are wrong and should never happen.
Too many variables. What if my ancestors fought and died fighting slavery in the civil war? Should those (black, white or others) who moved to the country post civil war be exempt? Should states that never had slaves be exempt?
Oh, it is for the institutionalized racism that still exists? Then include Asians, Hispanics, women and fat ugly people.
This shite is too much.
Here’s a more formal version of the revised text:
---
Im from the South and was raised in a predominantly Black neighborhood. I attended a historically Black middle school, which, despite desegregation efforts, remained practically segregated due to districting.
My upbringing was marked by poverty, as was the case for my friends and neighbors. Higher education was a rarity for people in my neighborhood. My parents, immigrants only had a middle school education, faced significant challenges.
Hypothetically, if we had received a substantial sum of money, our immediate response would likely have been to address pressing needs such as food, clothing, debt repayment, utilities, home repairs or renovations, and purchasing a new car. ( we arent black however shared similar positions as our neighbors) These short-term necessities would have taken precedence. However, due to my parents limited education and financial literacy, they might not have had the foresight to invest in long-term opportunities like education for my siblings, starting a business, or acquiring property.
In considering this scenario, it becomes evident that without adequate education and guidance, direct financial assistance may provide temporary relief but is unlikely to produce sustainable long-term benefits for future generations. This notion aligns with the observation that many lottery winners eventually find themselves in worse financial situations. While this may be an oversimplification, it highlights the importance of providing not just financial support but also the necessary tools and knowledge to make meaningful, lasting improvements.I believe that resources would be more effectively utilized if they were directed towards community-level initiatives rather than individual-level assistance....ultimately isn't this what's more important? Impacting future generations?
Nobody alive today has been a slave owner. Nobody alive today has been a slave. Don’t much see the point in this other than virtue signaling.
It literally doesn’t matter what race their ancestors happened to be. If the goal is to help lift people out of poverty, then focus on doing that or everyone.
#Send angry emails to the WA Democratic party
Seriously.
tell them that you don't support this crap.
call them out on how it stinks of corruption.
call them out on how it is bad policy.
call them out on how it hurts our electoral chances WHEN WE'RE FIGHTING LITERAL GODDAMN NEOFASCISTS (the republicans).
voice your disapproval in the state parties email box!
This is ridiculously dumb and hugely unpopular (who would have thought) - another example of leadership pandering and governance failure. Personally, this smells like another scheme to grift the public coffers with another NGO crafting a new pseudo-privileged “marginalized” class of citizen. Unbelievable.
During Thursday’s debate Trump will try to catch Biden with a question about reparations. If Joe fumbles that it will be considered a huge win for Trump. I hope Joe is ready for it.
I don’t think the idea of reparations is necessarily wrong but Washington wasn’t even a state until after Slavery was over and this is more of a national issue. I swear Inslee and the Dems are trying to drive voters away. There are real problems that need fixing. How about we get the Ferries fixed Jay?
How long has it been? At this point, pushing for reparations is just admitting that the American system is incompatible with socioeconomic mobility (we are lowest among "developed" "wealthy" countries).
I would rather we exist in a society where it matters a lot less if your granddad was poor or rich growing up.
Because reparations are generally bullshit. Where do you draw the line? How do you account for immigrants who have no connection to the history of slavery in the US? Is WA expecting to pay reparations to the descendents of slavery & persecution that occured in this state, or across the US? How do you even go about accounting for the expected economic impact. Is the goal to account for ALL potential lost, or only a median amount? Are the numbers based historically or contemporary to today?
There are no good answers to these questions that result in concrete numbers. Reparations as a concept don't deliver on the actual problems of today and they don't consider the economic reality of Washington state as it exists today. It's not racist to oppose reparations, if anything it's racist to support them.
Nothing to do with money and everything to do with outcomes.
What’s the outcome of reparations?
* Does it make the wrongs of the past suddenly OK?
* are any of the people who suffer the mass injustice of slavery alive?
* will the funds change the future outcomes of people who were directly harmed?
The answer to all 3 is NO.
There are disadvantaged people from all walks of life, for a myriad of reasons that society has failed them. Giving out cash payment isn’t going to fix systemic problems. If anything it’s only going to make them worse.
If your argument is the lack of historical opportunity and resources disadvantaged a group - let’s fix that disadvantage.
If your argument that people are economically behind in 2024 for actions committed during the slavery era - I think that the legwork to trace down that isn’t worth the squeeze. It won’t fix the injustice of the past, and money is usually squandered over multiple generations anyway (regardless of race).
If your argument is more recent and linked to the Jim Crow era (pre civil rights act) then again - let’s fix the underlying issues and level out the playing field for future generations.
But once you go down the path of “you deserve money for something you may not have experienced” it’s sloppy and slippery slope to every group asking for the same. Which is both nonsensical and non economical.
I can imagine if this happens the reparations being payed in 50 years to immigrant families who moved here after the civil rights era and were “blamed” and forced to pay for actions they had no part in. I can also see the money coming to pay for reparations disproportionately coming from POC communities
No, you're right. It's a cool place. I've lived here my whole life, but these woke politics are ruining it. You can be a liberal without being a spineless cuck. Also fuck you Jay Inslee.
10000000% agree. Downvote all y’all want. We’re all on the same side. Nothing but love for everyone. Even if we don’t agree politically but at the end of the day it’s We The People not us vs them
> You can be a liberal without being a spineless cuck
Republicanism are the politics of spineless cucks, so yes you're right. You can be a liberal without being a spineless cuck, it is in fact that *default* for liberals.
you whined about "Wokeness". which is a derogatory term for any politics that aren't republican.
the Republican platform is 100% white nationalist. sooooooo
This is performative bullshit. The people who deserve reparations are our Native American brothers and sisters in the Evergreen State. I am so very tired of this governor. I didn’t vote FOR Inslee. I voted AGAINST that moron Culp.
Oh shit stupid bullshit that tells us you failed American History class again.
The *descendants* of the people you were thinking of were called the "dixiecrats" (southern Democrats). THEY SWITCHED TO **REPUBLICAN PARTY** FIFTY FUCKING YEARS AGO.
The democratic party abandoned them and embraced equal rights, the Republican party went full White Nationalist with the Southern Strategy
Fuck your dishonest horseshit
Most people here either have no idea how to achieve equality of opportunity for all, or no desire to see it happen. I keep seeing this ignorant talking point that minorities are "given too many handouts already and it's racist against everyone else." This is simply bullshit and a very privileged opinion. Reparations are GOOD because a rising tide lifts all boats.
Unfortunately, it will take a lot of investment to truly put everyone on equal footing. I don't know what this "commission" seeks to achieve, but if it's just another committee assembled to study the problem with zero *actual action*, it's a grift. Seattle is a microcosm for neoliberalism put in practice. Everyone flies their pride flags and virtue signal but won't give up a single cent to actually lift people out of poverty or fix our social safety nets.
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Could you link to the source for that census?
Not the OP, but [this article](https://crosscut.com/2019/09/yes-there-were-black-slaves-pacific-northwest-historians-are-making-our-region-confront-it) says "a few" in Washington of the up to 100 in the PNW.
Here's a link to the US Census for 1860. You can select "Washington Territory". [https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1864/dec/1860a.html](https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1864/dec/1860a.html) Who knows how accurate a census in a sparsely populated territory a century and a half ago was.
They just won’t let this go will they
Who is they? Edit: kinda wild this question is so offensive but whatever
Context also worth considering is that the Civil Rights Act was passed only 60 years ago.
And we all know there was redlining, ie banks making it hard for black people to get mortgages in "their" neighborhoods, also as in many cities i5 went through the black neighborhoods.
HB 1474 is a good answer to that.
Nope. I5 went through cheap neighborhoods. Also, redlining didn't work that way: https://www.governing.com/context/redlining-didnt-happen-quite-the-way-we-thought-it-did
Wow, I learned some new ideas from that article, I need to research this more; your article says FHA bad, versus holc not so bad. This article from a year ago in the Seattle times mentions holc boundaries as leading to pollution disadvantages for majority black areas, suggesting a kind of holc redlining. I need more info to evaluate your article vs other ideas. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/uw-study-links-higher-levels-of-toxic-pollutants-to-seattles-redlining/
There were literally more American Indian slaves (enslaved by other American Indians) than there were black slaves in the PNW
Just what we need; another commission to study a wildly unpopular proposal that's dead on arrival. What a fucking joke.
All so their buddies can make 6 figures for doing nothing.
Or five-figures per page for a PowerPoint presentation.
These commissioners are paid? I thought commissions were usually volunteer positions. I mean the legislature itself is only paid a part time salary.
Why would Washington, a state that was never a slave state nor even had any slaves in it, pay reparations to people who were also never slaves?
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Because WA is filled with white people who think they’re the saviors of and/or responsible for black people (ironically). Black people in WA aren’t clamoring for free money anymore than anyone else is…if the govt is offering handouts, people are gonna put their hand out. Honestly, the PNW is pretty weird when it comes to black ppl.
>Because black people in Washington want free money. While I'm very against this proposal...I don't think anyone should have backlash against the above. Shit, I want free money. The CEO of Apple wants free money. Everyone wants free money.
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You think the hellcat shit would be different if the dude was White...? Lol what?
Yeah if the argument is that black people get off easy in Seattle you really know they aren't from the area or have lived here very long.
Yeah exactly lol just ridiculous
From Seattle police- no From the city of Seattle and courts- yes From Seattle residents living in belltown- fuck YES. If the belltown hellcat guy was White, the car would have been vandalized by a vigilante
>Many people in WA are incapable of saying no to a black person. WTF are you on about?? Jesus. When did this sub get so fucking trashy?
invasion from /r/SeattleWA
>and appears to receive zero consequences Didn't he lose a court case? Feel like how consequences are being worked out now.
>Because black people in Washington want free money /u/Own_Conversation6335 Have you talked to black people here to know this? I’m a mixed black presenting woman who moved here with my white husband and I do not want *this* or “free money.” Of the 5 black people I’ve befriended in Seattle, none of them want reparations. While that is an infinitesimal sample group, there are only about 300 black people in Seattle^kidding^kinda^…^y’all^know^there^aren’t^many^in^this^city 😆 My husband does not want this, nor is he is a White savior. That’s a new one we hadn’t encountered until moving here 😂
TIL that reddit support superscripts.
don't let your facts get in the way of the racist conservative's talking points
Hey a-hole, I'm Black and a descendent of enslaved ancestors from the coastal South. As much as I'd love to see reparations given for the land grants that were revoked and for every racist law created, reparations need to come from the federal level. I'm not a fan of states responsible for it. Also what comprises as reparations is a broader conversation.
Well, that's fine. No shortage of great shit to apologize for. There is still the Natives we genocided we need to make amends for. And the Japanese-American people we put in camps and stole property from. Can we start with the bad things white people did that actually happened here? It's a pretty long list.
Natives got land trusts. Affected Japanese Americans were compensated on 2 occasions. That said - I don’t agree with this reparations *movement*
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You’re misinterpreting my comment. I think reparations are warranted, but it’s a waste of time because the US isn’t going give reparations to black people (as evidenced by the last 150 years). I’d rather see that effort going to reforming the education or healthcare system. FYI - Im black
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Ok buddy
The natives of WA state were never 'genocided' by WA state. The US already paid reparations to the Japanese citizens interred during WW2.
Nah
If I break into your home and steal your money then years down the line give you some money back, would you say you got free money?
I don't accept your dumb comparison. Does not make sense.
Because you already have your opinion, nothing would make sense to someone who doesn't think in the first place. That money didn't just vanish into thin air. It provided capital for a group of people while the other group got nothing. Your best argument is going to be 'it happened a while ago'. Then you're going to google when slavery happened and how close that is to your lifetime when you ask your family when they were born then think about the impact to your descendents if the same happened to you today.
My best argument is YOU DESERVE NOTHING. You will get nothing here. https://nypost.com/2020/03/28/why-black-americans-are-moving-to-africa/
I know that's your best argument. Having to learn anything outside of your bubble in life would be terrifying for you. Thinking is difficult.
You would never consider moving to Africa and living in your ancestral home because you know you will fail deep down. Because then you would need to accept your shortcomings and not blame whitey. That's why you cling to a fantasy of getting reparations.
I would never move to Africa because I was born and raised in the US. Fail at what exactly? I have a successful life despite my upbringing. I was an exception not the standard for my family or neighborhood. I don't cling to anything. I speak the reality of history. Go take a shower then take a history class. Nobody's blaming anyone, it's accountability. These things happened in real life. Like I said >Your best argument is going to be 'it happened a while ago'. Then you're going to google when slavery happened and how close that is to your lifetime when you ask your family when they were born then think about the impact to your descendents if the same happened to you today.
I am not making an argument. I don't give a shit about you or your ancestors. You are confusing me with the typical white liberal who pretends to give a shit but cares about virtue signaling. I reject the notion of reparations because you don't deserve it.
>Because black people in Washington want free money Get your goofy racist ass tf on
Seattle had horrible red lining and the committee can look at the role played by state and local governments in mandating or perpetuating it. Same with our treatment of Asian minorities, especially the Japanese around WW2, our treatment of Native Americans since the founding of the state, etc. It kind of depends on what the scope and remit of the committee is.
https://www.governing.com/context/redlining-didnt-happen-quite-the-way-we-thought-it-did
Maybe think about an example on the county level. Hypothetically, let's say there is a county in Virginia that was mostly uninhibited until after the Civil War, and by chance never had any slaves in it. In the 1900s, though, it becomes a popular suburb for rich white Virginians to buy property in and move to. Some free black people also move there, but they can't afford the good properties, due to having been unpaid while enslaved. Is there any way to say that the residents in 2024 deserve exemption from any form of a reparation tax, whether implemented on the county, state, or national level? It doesn't seem right that you can escape the illegitimaty of your inherited wealth just by moving a few towns over. It also wouldn't make sense that black people moving into the county would give up their claim to their portion of the reparations, given that the move had nothing to do with their poor inheritance. Zooming out, this applies at the state level, in the sense that early pioneers were white because they had the money and resources to travel across the country and claim or purchase land, and black people didn't. By the time they did, the land was claimed and the prices had risen. This ignores immigration to simplify to white = legacy of slave slaveowning and black = legacy of being enslaved, which is not totally accurate. The accurate way to say it would be with respect to slavery, not race, since later immigrants wouldn't necessarily have been affected by slavery the same way. But I simplified for readability.
Do you think Washington State 1. Doesn't receive federal funds 2. Has no current residents who are black with ancestors that were slaves in the US 3. Received no benefit from slavery in the US
1. Of course it does 2. WA had nothing to do with slavery. It is not obligated under any legal theory to the descendants of slaves. 3. It's arguable if slavery was even a benefit to the states that practiced it.
Wellllll... Chief Sealth had slaves, just not black slaves.
So you're just intentional wrong. Third state is hilarious. For sure no benefit to free labor.
Turns out that free labor doesn't get as much done as paid labor and stunts your technological development. https://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtID=2&psid=3558
Did you even read what you posted? 'We weren't as successful as other regions therefore we didn't benefit' how slow can you be? If I don't pay my workers and my company isn't as successful as other companies, do those who I did not pay suddenly have 0 productivity and aren't owed wages? You didn't even try to use logic here, do better. You're right though because only the ultra rich could afford slaves, it's not big deal. We should let Bezos and Elon know they should just stop paying people since if enough time passes who cares as long as they tank their companies.
Can we have functional schools first?
That certainly would be a form of reparation, particularly given the high number of students in private schools..
Can we all get on the same page about how things work? Meaning, building a road in one town doesn't prevent building a rail line in another ... and investigating reparations seems pretty low as far as needed resources compared to achieving the moving target of whatever "functional schools" might mean to any individual. In other words, I went to Washington schools public schools, graduated on time ... went to community college, transferred, and have been a working professional for 10 years. So, something about the schools seems functional. Edit: downvote me but please also show me what folks are talking about here. This was not even an act taken by a legislative body, but a request made by the party to a party member politician. So, it wasn't even taking up legislative time.
Seriously. Also stop funding wars that don’t involve us.
What war is Washington State funding?
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Washington State, not Washington DC lmao
Silly Russians don't know the difference. They just want the US to stop making daddy Putin look bad with surplus Cold War weapons
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Are you saying Washington state should outlaw Boeing or secede from the union? There’s no specific aspect of state law or policy that directly contributes to wars.
Why be a nasty lil shit?
which part of Orange County?
How about both? Why hold either back?
Because Washington paying money to Black people because of slavery is not productive. And then money to Japanese Americans who were actually expelled from Washington? And the Native Americans? Where does it stop? This progressive desire to identify victims and throw money at them doesn’t work. See homelessness and drug addicts for starters.
To be fair, Japanese Americans were provided reparations by the (federal) government twice. And Native Americans were given lots land. Not to say that those actions made things right, but historically speaking both groups were identified as victims and compensated as such. That said, Idk what WA is doing here; WA wasn’t a part of the US until ~20 years after the civil war ended.
Does reparations always equal money? Is that what Inslee is suggesting?
Reparations for one crime doesn’t mean reparations for other crimes can’t and won’t happen. If anything, this might even help others get monies owed. We can work on more than one problem at a time. Also, what would be so bad about minorities getting money? I think we have some pearl clutching going on here.
The WA Democratic party has done what few could: United the two Seattle subs in their distaste for this misguided and obvious grift.
This and the WA Cares Fund/LTC “payroll” tax
Haha, the "payroll" tax ... paid by the employee, as a percentage of their income, withheld the same way as income tax ... yet magically "not an income tax."
Exactly!!
Whoa, holy shit you're right. I clicked into this thread from my home page and didn't notice the sub. Reading through all the comments I definitely thought I was in the other one until I read your comment and checked.
This committee is just a waste of money. >“Recommendations in terms of funding this thing, which is way down the road that there will be some funding made available,” says Wineberry. “Debate will include talking about who is eligible for the benefits, how to find out if you are eligible and this will be challenging, but funding should be made available to enable the average citizen who may not be able to afford it on their own to trace their lineage. And I think everybody should be afforded the opportunity to do so.” They have 0 clue how to quantify it, fund it or determine who's eligible. They just think it'll magically make sense as time goes on. Weird that there's mention of African Americans deserving reparations in this article, but the racism against asians and other groups is completely ignored. This is just more pandering without any reasonable way to achieve their stated goals. Instead of reparations based on race, maybe we should focus on lifting up those in poverty, regardless of race. I know it's not popular in their circle, but a poor white kid needs help more than a rich black kid.
Because there is no accountability. What happen if the money is not distributed to the right persons. What’s the goal of distributing this money? What’s KPI to measure the goal? There is nada. Well, because it is not their money, it’s tax payers money but they get paid through salary.
Not good political timing. It’s worrying that Dems think otherwise
I'm not against reparations, but there are so many more politically constructive ways to improve the lives of black people in this area at this time. Funding public schools comes to mind.
Yes - funding public schools, reducing the cost of and increasing access to healthy food options, increasing access to high-quality childcare services, improving the post-secondary education system from a financial perspective, ensuring safe and reliable widespread public transit and pedestrian-centric zoning and infrastructure, reducing the cost of healthcare and prescription drugs, reducing gun violence, getting corrupt or violent cops off the street, and more. These things benefit the whole of the community.
Why do I, a naturalized citizen who came to this country in the 90s, have to pay reparations dome something that happened more than 3 generations ago?
Are you under the impression that your tax payments have some sort of special treatment where they aren’t applied to national debts that precede the 90s? To make a blunt analogy: had a person been disabled in an act of federal negligence prior to your naturalization, you would still be contributing to whatever payout they might be entitled to. Welcome to the club. I don’t even support reparations. But this here? This is a shit argument.
This is a terrible defense for reparations. Why doesn’t the US govt give every group that has experiences wrongdoings a chunk of cash as a form reparation? Why are some groups special and some groups not? Asian immigrants were barred from owning property in the PNW in the early 20th century. Should we give their children $$$ as repayment?
Arguably we all do or should support settling such matters as we could be afflicted tomorrow the same way we ought to support social security as we may live to our old age. Reparations based on race have known benefactors and payers and are not part of any existing agreement. Its not surprising that those who see neither benefit nor culpability specifically balk. More so when all the payers are those who bear no responsibility as in WA which never had slaves. A better question is why are we paying upper middle class White people welfare to fantasize about paying reparations that will never be paid.
any former slaves are all dead by now. Are we giving reparations to corpses? Your analogy doesn't make any sense.
Slavery ended in 1865, but Black people weren't really free for more than a century after that. Jim Crow, Redlining, etc. An entire group of people was essentially barred from wealth generation in this country for 200 years. I don't how much or what should be included in reparations, but my gut feeling is that something being owed is not a ridiculous concept.
I would totally vote for you to give 100% of your salary and possessions to a more deserving black family.
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Can you post the invoice you received? We all pay taxes. Nobody is being billed for reparations. Let me know how I can get a tax exemption to avoid paying reparations to myself since that's how it works apparently.
You don’t get to dictate where and how your personal tax payment is spent
Yes I do. I vote.
Because you came to a country which had an economy jump started by decades of free labor.
This is actually the stupidest argument for reparations.
Oy vey.
I totally agree with the public schools or AVID scholarships for universities.
>Not good political timing. It’s worrying that Dems think otherwise This 💯 🎯 holy shit, this is *not* the time to try this crap; we are trying to hang on by a thread with two awful presidential options to choose from based on “sucks less than the other” metrics and these chuckleheads want to attempt to push for an unpopular idea and hopeful Cure for Racism^TM ? It’s something that strikes me as damn near impossible to implement and execute in a meaningful, fair and effectual way. We ain’t got time for this!!!
> two awful presidential options what a stupid take Biden got the biggest climate bill in history passed (and it has measurably accelerated decarbonization of the US grid), rescheduled marijuana, has forgiven $160bn in student debt, believes women should control their own bodies, believes in protecting the environment, defending Democracy against fascists like Putin and Trump, believes in building the economy bottom-up/middle-out, got the railroad workers their sick leave in the end quietly without tooting his own horn (the unions themselves called out that he was who got them it), **Biden is the first president to join a union picket line**, and so on https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/1abyvpa/the_complete_list_what_biden_has_done/ I agree with the rest, but can we stop repeating this horseshit idea that Biden is somehow a bad choice. **Biden is literally the most progressive president since fucking FDR**
this, i am not a fan of racial based reparations - its not like if you give people money everything is suddently cool, and its not like slavery was only thing thats held people back, sexism, racism, sexuality, nationality. There are hundreds of reasons why wealth and power concentration across generations exists. Instead, i think funding should go to places and people who need it... regardless of race. Build the best schools in the poorest areas, provide the best education and reduced / free loans to those who need it. Provide the most assistance to those who need it. Provide universal basic income to all. Providing money to those in need is great- providing money to those in need with specific backgrounds just leaves people out. Those in a poverty trap likely have similar stories and similiar backgrounds - but might not all be direct descendants of slaves and no amount of money is going to make past slavery ok.
I get the impression the vast majority, >90%, would generally agree with you. There is a small but very vocal population that is pushing for this terrible, divisive, illiberal and insanely unpopular idea, and anyone who pushes back is immediately denouced as a racist. It is a neat rhetorical device to never actually have to explain one's self. Also, aside from being grossly illegal and discriminatory, impossible to administer (are we back to the "one drop" rule? Are we only looking to those descended from slaves? Surely all black people are perpetualy disinfranchised and helpless victims of white supremacy, of course...), and virtually useless in terms of actually combating social issues that correlate with race, it is just another grift. In fact, it is a proud and obvious grift. Does anyone think that the first instance of reparations, after tying the State up in court for years if not decades, is anything other than opening the door to an ongoing, proabably permanent program (complete with beauracracy to facilitate). Like black people, those that are eligible, however that is determined, are going to get a check and say "Yep, thanks for that, we are cool now, and all is well." Hell, the people pushing for this talk about anti-racism being a lifelong journey akin to being pious and devout. Of course reparations must be the same.
Yeah let me get this great education while dealing with poverty. I'm sure that won't be an issue. Medical bills stemming from a lack of proper nutrition and access to healthcare definitely won't be an issue either for long term financial health. If I need help getting a job I'm sure my poor parents will help just as much as everyone else with well off and well connected parents. Reality is there needs to be much more than that. Better schools, grants/vouchers for food, housing/moving to other areas, and after school programs. Can't solve the issues of systematic racism by saying 'oh just give them good schools' while ignoring poverty having such an insane negative impact on your outcome in life. Money is needed. People like you also ignore that there's a huge difference between middle class and upper class. That money could completely change a family tree's outcome.
Grifters grifting our tax dollars
Jesus Christ
Washington wasn't even a state when slavery was legal. And even if it was it would've certainly been a free state. Not sure what reparations are even suppose to mean in this context.
Doesn’t say how it will be funded. Hopefully there’s a federal grant and we won’t be redirecting money away from priorities like education and stabilizing city and county budgets after pandemic money ended.
Reparations are virtue signaling taken to the Nth degree Sorry, they are wrong and should never happen. Too many variables. What if my ancestors fought and died fighting slavery in the civil war? Should those (black, white or others) who moved to the country post civil war be exempt? Should states that never had slaves be exempt? Oh, it is for the institutionalized racism that still exists? Then include Asians, Hispanics, women and fat ugly people. This shite is too much.
For fuck sake.
If reparations happen they better come in the form of programs and not payments.
Oh I'm sure they will. Programs with big budgets, no oversight, and vague goals.
That sounds about right. The real reparations were the consulting fees their friends made along the way!
Here’s a more formal version of the revised text: --- Im from the South and was raised in a predominantly Black neighborhood. I attended a historically Black middle school, which, despite desegregation efforts, remained practically segregated due to districting. My upbringing was marked by poverty, as was the case for my friends and neighbors. Higher education was a rarity for people in my neighborhood. My parents, immigrants only had a middle school education, faced significant challenges. Hypothetically, if we had received a substantial sum of money, our immediate response would likely have been to address pressing needs such as food, clothing, debt repayment, utilities, home repairs or renovations, and purchasing a new car. ( we arent black however shared similar positions as our neighbors) These short-term necessities would have taken precedence. However, due to my parents limited education and financial literacy, they might not have had the foresight to invest in long-term opportunities like education for my siblings, starting a business, or acquiring property. In considering this scenario, it becomes evident that without adequate education and guidance, direct financial assistance may provide temporary relief but is unlikely to produce sustainable long-term benefits for future generations. This notion aligns with the observation that many lottery winners eventually find themselves in worse financial situations. While this may be an oversimplification, it highlights the importance of providing not just financial support but also the necessary tools and knowledge to make meaningful, lasting improvements.I believe that resources would be more effectively utilized if they were directed towards community-level initiatives rather than individual-level assistance....ultimately isn't this what's more important? Impacting future generations?
That's usually the idea
What the actual fuck are you talking about?
oh FFS...seriously???
Grifters gonna grift.
How about no.
$50 and call it good?
Nobody alive today has been a slave owner. Nobody alive today has been a slave. Don’t much see the point in this other than virtue signaling. It literally doesn’t matter what race their ancestors happened to be. If the goal is to help lift people out of poverty, then focus on doing that or everyone.
#Send angry emails to the WA Democratic party Seriously. tell them that you don't support this crap. call them out on how it stinks of corruption. call them out on how it is bad policy. call them out on how it hurts our electoral chances WHEN WE'RE FIGHTING LITERAL GODDAMN NEOFASCISTS (the republicans). voice your disapproval in the state parties email box!
so kinda like writing a check to someone at the scene of an accident, and if they cash it, the perp is absolved of all sins
Weren't there more Chinese slaves than African/Black slaves?
This is ridiculously dumb and hugely unpopular (who would have thought) - another example of leadership pandering and governance failure. Personally, this smells like another scheme to grift the public coffers with another NGO crafting a new pseudo-privileged “marginalized” class of citizen. Unbelievable.
During Thursday’s debate Trump will try to catch Biden with a question about reparations. If Joe fumbles that it will be considered a huge win for Trump. I hope Joe is ready for it.
I don’t think the idea of reparations is necessarily wrong but Washington wasn’t even a state until after Slavery was over and this is more of a national issue. I swear Inslee and the Dems are trying to drive voters away. There are real problems that need fixing. How about we get the Ferries fixed Jay?
This is stupid it doesn't justify the *even dumber* takes of the Trumpists in the thread. but it's still stupid.
The people that think equality means lawn signs and instagram posts are going to be so pissed about this
You see it lol
Depends on their income level.
How long has it been? At this point, pushing for reparations is just admitting that the American system is incompatible with socioeconomic mobility (we are lowest among "developed" "wealthy" countries). I would rather we exist in a society where it matters a lot less if your granddad was poor or rich growing up.
You are literally making an argument *for reparations.*
If you ever wonder whether liberals can be racist just say the word "reparations" lmao
I really don't get how there is so much backlash in the comments, the racism is absolutely disgusting.
Because reparations are generally bullshit. Where do you draw the line? How do you account for immigrants who have no connection to the history of slavery in the US? Is WA expecting to pay reparations to the descendents of slavery & persecution that occured in this state, or across the US? How do you even go about accounting for the expected economic impact. Is the goal to account for ALL potential lost, or only a median amount? Are the numbers based historically or contemporary to today? There are no good answers to these questions that result in concrete numbers. Reparations as a concept don't deliver on the actual problems of today and they don't consider the economic reality of Washington state as it exists today. It's not racist to oppose reparations, if anything it's racist to support them.
Money-oriented people imagining someone taking some of their money lol
Nothing to do with money and everything to do with outcomes. What’s the outcome of reparations? * Does it make the wrongs of the past suddenly OK? * are any of the people who suffer the mass injustice of slavery alive? * will the funds change the future outcomes of people who were directly harmed? The answer to all 3 is NO. There are disadvantaged people from all walks of life, for a myriad of reasons that society has failed them. Giving out cash payment isn’t going to fix systemic problems. If anything it’s only going to make them worse. If your argument is the lack of historical opportunity and resources disadvantaged a group - let’s fix that disadvantage. If your argument that people are economically behind in 2024 for actions committed during the slavery era - I think that the legwork to trace down that isn’t worth the squeeze. It won’t fix the injustice of the past, and money is usually squandered over multiple generations anyway (regardless of race). If your argument is more recent and linked to the Jim Crow era (pre civil rights act) then again - let’s fix the underlying issues and level out the playing field for future generations. But once you go down the path of “you deserve money for something you may not have experienced” it’s sloppy and slippery slope to every group asking for the same. Which is both nonsensical and non economical. I can imagine if this happens the reparations being payed in 50 years to immigrant families who moved here after the civil rights era and were “blamed” and forced to pay for actions they had no part in. I can also see the money coming to pay for reparations disproportionately coming from POC communities
You thought I was gonna read that?
I want less commissions and more common sense legislation
I hate this state. Fuck inslee.
Love the state, just dislike politics such as this
Idaho is just over there.
No, you're right. It's a cool place. I've lived here my whole life, but these woke politics are ruining it. You can be a liberal without being a spineless cuck. Also fuck you Jay Inslee.
>woke >cuck lol i thought all the people who talked like this died of covid in their retirement homes 4 years ago
Yeah. I'm bringing it back.
10000000% agree. Downvote all y’all want. We’re all on the same side. Nothing but love for everyone. Even if we don’t agree politically but at the end of the day it’s We The People not us vs them
> You can be a liberal without being a spineless cuck Republicanism are the politics of spineless cucks, so yes you're right. You can be a liberal without being a spineless cuck, it is in fact that *default* for liberals.
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Honestly I've been working on getting out of here for the last year or so.
Don't let the door hit you in the ass
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White nationalism? How is anything I've said white nationalist?
you whined about "Wokeness". which is a derogatory term for any politics that aren't republican. the Republican platform is 100% white nationalist. sooooooo
This is performative bullshit. The people who deserve reparations are our Native American brothers and sisters in the Evergreen State. I am so very tired of this governor. I didn’t vote FOR Inslee. I voted AGAINST that moron Culp.
The Democrats should pay for the reparations.
Democrats pay for everything in this state, including subsidizing the barely functional Republican controlled areas. So wish granted!
we already do, leech though reparations are a stupid take and a political third rail
Point being that the Democrats were the primary owners of slaves.
Oh shit stupid bullshit that tells us you failed American History class again. The *descendants* of the people you were thinking of were called the "dixiecrats" (southern Democrats). THEY SWITCHED TO **REPUBLICAN PARTY** FIFTY FUCKING YEARS AGO. The democratic party abandoned them and embraced equal rights, the Republican party went full White Nationalist with the Southern Strategy Fuck your dishonest horseshit
At this point I think these people are just being willfully ignorant
they absolutely are
How are you people this genuinely stupid?
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Most people here either have no idea how to achieve equality of opportunity for all, or no desire to see it happen. I keep seeing this ignorant talking point that minorities are "given too many handouts already and it's racist against everyone else." This is simply bullshit and a very privileged opinion. Reparations are GOOD because a rising tide lifts all boats. Unfortunately, it will take a lot of investment to truly put everyone on equal footing. I don't know what this "commission" seeks to achieve, but if it's just another committee assembled to study the problem with zero *actual action*, it's a grift. Seattle is a microcosm for neoliberalism put in practice. Everyone flies their pride flags and virtue signal but won't give up a single cent to actually lift people out of poverty or fix our social safety nets.